Extended Vice Jaws: A Good Idea?
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- Опубликовано: 29 июн 2022
- In this video I experiment with extending my woodworking vice jaws using birch ply and also a way of securing a metal working vice to the workbench.
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This is exactly the reason why you should post a video like this: when in doubt about smthg you make or think about, post it bcs I'm 100% sure some of us viewers have the same problems/questions, and the video and comments are valuable to all (most) of us.
Might want to replace that shim with a bigger piece so that the metal jaw face provides more support against the wood jaw pivoting
Agree, that looks like a pivot point to me. Bar that it’s a nice design.
Yes that’s was I think too. Better to fill the space to provide better support.
Yes, exactly. That air gap inside there can’t ever be a good thing. In some situations it won’t hurt but when you need the extra support, instead you have air.
That's not the issue, the issue with extending vice jaws vertically is that there is only 2 points where the wooden jaws attach to the vice jaw. So when you're clamping a thin piece at the top of the jaws (like to plane the face of a board), the pressure point is lower than the piece, and it doesn't get clamped properly. The shim will not be a problem and if it was full it would not change anything. This type of vice is just not made to be extended a lot, a cm or two will work but if you go too high it will always act as a lever and not clamp anything.
@@kz.irudimen these things aren’t either-or. Yes, the points of connection are an issue as you correctly point out. It’s difficult to do anything about that though.
The air gap gives all the materials room to torque and flex, and that’s not good for stable clamping or material longevity. The air gap is easy to fix, so you do what’s possible.
I really enjoy your open and honest videos, trying things and acknowledging potential shortcomings. Much more my cup of tea than the perfect results with top end commercial machinery too many other channels seem to aim for.
Genius idea with the small metalwork clamp, I have one as well that I’ve been wondering what to do with 👍
I did the same thing, extending the height of my vice, but recently then removed the vice and moved it up because the red oak I was using began to warp and crack with the ever changing conditions in heat cold and humidity here in New York. I work out of my garage and have zero temperature control and it got frustrating not having the same clamping strength near the top of the vise especially for smaller parts and would move around more. When I had the metal jaws of the vise directly behind the wood, as high as possible definitely has better gripping strength so raised the vise back up to table height. Doubling up the plywood was a great idea, I only had a 3/4" piece on the front of mine. That simple change may have worked if I had thought of it. This is still a good video though! Give us an update!
I liked the paper tape trick! and of course your honesty at the end, I was thinking about that too
Uh-oh! This must be a special video. Keith is wearing his 'Lucky Shorts'!
I like the looks of the new vice and I love the new workbench.
I'm with you. I made a couple of mobile work benches with dog holes and I'm found that I rarely if ever use the holes. I'm sorry that I took the time and trouble to drill the holes.
Thanks for the video.
Thank you for sharing your work. Good quick and clear video
Thursday video.... what a lovely surprise!
I have seen people using softwood jaw linings so as to protect delicate wood clamped in the vice. An alternative is a cork layer on the inside of the linings.
I think it will serve you well for many years to cene, and if not - I'm sure you will find a clever way to fix it. Great idea with the metal-vice. Quick to get to use, but not in the way when you don't use it. Thanks for sharing!
I don't think you will have any issues with it if you are not squeezing the crap out of things on a regular basis. The only thing I would have done differently is to make the 9mm space piece the full size of the recess to stop it having room to move on those bolts and apply the pressure over a larger area from the vice to the ply. Nice job though and I am sure it will serve you for as long as the bench top.
I did the same thing with my vises, woodworking and machine vises!!!🤗🤗🤗🤗
To stop the racking forces, just drill & thread a hole thru each corner of the outer jaw and when you want to prevent racking at the top of the jaw, insert long bolts thru the 2 bottom holes just enough to contact the inner jaw when tightening. If the racking is side to side, put the bolts in the opposite upper and lower holes to prevent side racking. If you don't want to damage the inner vise face, just imbed a metal plate opposite the outer jaw bolt holes.
If you are still reading, you can also enhance the clamping by adding 2 dog holes with pop up bench dogs. I used bench dogs with threaded end to screw them up & down on my face vise (yes, I made a video) so I could pop them up to an exact height as needed
Great channel. I don't always comment, but I do always watch :>).
A variation on the 2 bottom holes solution is drilling holes through the inner jaw as well, then using unthreaded (threaded may work too) rods that start at the outer jaw and extend through and past the inner jaw (it looks like there is room underneath the workbench). Rods would need to be thick and rigid for this to work. Upside to this solution is the rods will auto-adjust, sliding in and out, during normal use, requiring no adjustment . Downside is the rods need to be removed when side-clamping taller pieces.
@@christianp3388 The other downside is it is more complicated to make. I like easy-peasy :>)
@@russveinot5754 agreed. It would be difficult to get the alignment precise enough for smooth action, especially if drilling had to be done through anything behind the inner jaw, like an apron. No telling how deep that would go.
The base for the engineering vice is a brilliant idea, thanks for the tip. I think those extended jaws will be absolutely fine in terms of strength. They're usually replaced every few years anyway, I think you'll wear out the surfaces before you break the front jaw due to stress.
Great work! Make the 9mm spacer the same size as the original jaws for full support. Use bigger bolts if possible and tighten even more. Then you will no issues.
Hey Keith, like it, guess what my weekend is going to be filled with!! Thanks for posting have a good weekend
In the epilogue part of the video - it looks like you drilled a few holes in the top of the outside jaw that you did not show in the build. Are those for dogs? Also - you may want to put a couple of acorn nuts / plastic caps on those exposed threads on the bolts on the outside jaw to prevent you scraping something (like your hand) on them.
Was wondering the same
This video is already worth for the metalworking vice part. I'm in a similar situation, but just clamped the bolts from metalworking vice in the woodworking vice. But those bolts of course damage the wood pieces on the woodworking vice. Time to make something similar! Thanks for the video!
Hwy Keith, Suggestion put a metal plate between the birch plywood to remove the flex 1/2 inch plate would do nicely.
I am glad you posted the video. There are so many good things you demonstrated during the build. If it fails over time then you can let us know and figure out a better way. Thanks
Good Job done Keith if it gets you by like you say. If your clamping small objects just cut some scrap wood slightly narrower than what your workpiece is, lay it in the bottom of the vice this will help prevent the jaws birdmouthig out at the top allowing you to apply more pressure. Tony
Revising to incorporate new information and ensuring everyone who saw the original sees the update. The biggest problem facing those who try to convey accurate information in any medium, but I suspect it may be harder for those who work in online environments. Thanks for the video - and the honest description of risk.
In my humble opinion, I think that vice is absolutely fine. Over time you might and I say might see a small gap forming at the top of the closed vice through bending of the ply due to continued bending pressure however this would only be a problem if clamping something small and narrow and the problem might not even happen because as you said you have used birch ply which is very durable and stable. I don't know if I would have used as much finesse as you in recessing the vice into the ply, I would have probably just mounted a double skin of ply right onto the moving jaw, but what you did looks much more aesthetically pleasing. I'm glad you posted the video, I enjoyed watching it.
Like you said let’s see how it goes but them yellow shorts 🩳 🤣 there was l thinking I was watching some holiday video 🤣👍 stay safe 👍
I'm glad you posted the video, because I am going to do something similar in the next month or so. New workbenchtop and adding a vise like yours. You gave me something to think about. Best wishes from Germany
Brilliant work, Keith! Nicely done! 😃
I really liked the idea for the metal vise!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
If you add jaw liners you can get by without as much clamping force and still hold the work securely.
Thanks for posting that. It was still useful.
I like it. Also the quick steel vice addition is great. May do this my self. Have a few on the shelf.
Good video, and worth uploading. I think with a vice setup like this the wooden jaws should be considered a expendable and just be expected to be replaced in a few years. I've always found after that time I've cut bits o fit out, it has worn, and it generally has chips out of the edges and corners anyways.
Thanks. Clever approach. Will watch along to see how things hold up over time.
Thank you June
Always like the detail and care you take doing your work. Impressed.
Simplest way to stop the front jaw tilting, as the rails are close to the bottom of the jaw, is to drop a scrap of wood of the same size as the piece that you are clamping at the top down to the bottom. That way you clamp evenly. Same as if you are clamping something just to the left - put a scrap of the same size on the right, and the jaws tighten evenly.
Was about to type the same thing 👍
This really helped me….. I am currently making a ‘for now’ workbench due to the space I am in (small utility room) and the materials I have….still it’s my first bench and I am just about to mount a vise…..so thank you!
My bench vice is fitted in a similar way but I don’t have it as low as yours was but even then it can slightly distort when clamping hard. My jaws are beech so pretty solid. I also have the same set up for my metal working vice. I like mine as it is and yours looks very smart so I’m sure it will work just fine. Time will tell…. Andy UK
It'll probably be fine, but two things I'd do for peace of mind:
1. Replace the mdf shim on the inside of the outer vice face with a full sized bit of birch plywood.
2. Use some large and thick fender washers under the heads of the bolts that attach the face that's on the moving jaw of the vice.
Quality work mate 🤘
Mate, definitely worth posting just for the idea with the machinists vice. I'm about to install two Record woodworking vices on a new workbench and I also have a machinists vice (that just happens to look identical to yours) which I was wondering what to do with and this is the perfect solution. Cheers! 👍
Like really long jaws clamping a small item you use a spacer at the other side. Here you can place a spacer on next to the rails of the clamp if you're worried about it pivoting 👍
Thanks for posting, but I agree you have some structural issues.
1) As pointed out below the packer needs to be full sized. I am also not convinced the section with the rectangular cutout actually achieves very much.
2) If I remember correctly, the face of the vice has tapped holes and making use of these would allow for the biggest diameter bolts possible. It also avoids nuts and bolt ends protruding through the face which will inevitably snag your hands.
3) Your engineers vice fitting is fatally week at the corner joint. You want a lot of rigidity for the inevitable future abuse! It is much better to coach screw the vice to a big lump of timber the size of the metal base and shut that in the vice. You can add a slightly bigger plywood cap between the block and vice which overhangs the edge and acts as a stop when you drop the vice in the bench vice.
This sort of video is excellent and makes people think. I have had to scrap many projects over the years and start again! Perhaps you might consider a second video after a rethink?
nice work, I was wondering what you were going to do about mounting the vise on your new bench top. I think it's a good test to see how it works. My guess is that you will be just fine.
I think it all depends on what you want from a vice Keith plenty of perches is the important thing as we would all say and if it's just a small piece of wood, something of the same or near enough diameter could sit at the bottom avoiding any pivot from unlevel clamping in the vice. I'd say that is a worthy vice there mate, great video chap 👍🏻👍🏻
very usefull! thanks
A right-handed cabinetmaker mounts the vice on the left side of the workbench.
I i extended the jaws on my vice the same way a few months ago and it's been working fine so far. Mine may fail sooner than yours since I only screwed the front jaw into the plywood rather than using a bolt.
Great video. I think it is a great idea to show some less successful (potentially) idea's and how you approach them as this still helps people in my humble opinion. My thought would be to replace your outer jaw, make a new one and install bigger counter sunk screws and thread your vice to take them. This way you could extend the amount of locking area. Anyway keep up the good work.
How many times will we all question a design choice when we're half way through? 🤣Many many times, at least I do.
Make spacer blocks/strips of common thickness's and attach them at the bottom of the (bench side) jaw with magnets. Even if the stock is not exact, it should help relieve some stress.
You could add the largest washers you can get (if you can get a big enough spade bit) to increase the area that the heads of the bolts is putting pressure against. This will mean there's lower pressure on the wood, as a result, there should be less compression of the ply that will result in the bolts needing to be tightened less. It may also be a case that you have to tighten the bolts once or twice after the wood has compacted and it has compressed to a point that it can't compress much further. Some threadlock on the bolts may not be a bad idea - sawing and using other vibrating equipment may cause the bolts to slacken a little.
I think your issues with the jaws moving is in part due to the 9mm spacer not filling the full height of the recess.
I dont think it will be a problem . Should be fine .
I had the same issue with a similar but smaller vice, it ended up being a big issue and I routed/chiseled out part of the workbench top. It was a massive pain in the ass but it works much better now.
Hey…. I am thinking about doing the same with my first bench….could you tell me why that helped the front jaw specifically @kz? Thanks so much
@@Amanda-ev1xz My vice is a really cheap (like 40€ on amazon) irwin vice, it's flimsy and the movable jaw is not even square. So by extending the jaws vertically, it was just a big lever and it was not applying any pressure at the top. Since I often clamp small things right at the top, it basically made the vice useless. I had to carve out a part of the workbench so the top of the vice would be much closer to the top of the workbench and the lever effect would not be as bad. It's kind of hard to explain sorry :(
I'm upgrading this vice right now btw, it should arrive this week. The cheap one served me well for 2 years but I'm getting a much bigger one with quick release :)
Could you make the outer vice extension extend farther down? Instead of offsetting it from the bars could you remove the vice, drill some matching holes, and slide the outer face over them to the vice head? That way it won't only be the bolts holding the extension on and creating a pivot point, it'll be held at the bottom as well. Can't imagine even some extreme clamp pressure could warp the bars, especially so close to the vice head.
Instead of drilling backwards for a bit you could just wait until the drill is at full speed and then plunge into the wood. If the drill bit is sharp it always worked for me.
Never seen it done like that before and did occur to me the a small piece clamped at the top of the jaws wood be unevenly held pulling the bottom in forcing the top out.
But what the hell? Try it out! What’s the worse that could happen? No one’s going to die and there will be no rupture in in the space time continuum. Worse case scenario is that you revisit the issue with a link to the first video and people will learn from your efforts for decades to come. Best case scenario is that it works just fine.
Wonder if you can add some metal channel to the back side of the plywood to stiffen it? I'd be inclined to do nothing at first as well.
Might be hard to find by a piece of 9mm metal between the two front pieces of wood would add some great structural support if you were to make it again
I think it will be fine just as it is Keith. If you're really concerned about the pivot, add a piece the same thickness as the work piece at the bottom of the jaws to limit the levering force. Will last a long time.
The reason for the jaw movement is due to the height of the jaws above the vice casting. This is unavoidable in this circumstance. I would suggest, if you have enough space on the front casting of the vice, two more bolt holes through the casting and the jaws. These bolts do not have to be as large as the main bolts holding the jaws... just large enough to help counter the pivot. Having only two bolts on a vice jaw of this height creates a fulcrum, as you point out, and rather than using screws as the extra fasteners, bolts will be more secure. Enlarging the shim won't make a difference as you still have a fulcrum and the bottom portion of the vice jaw is still floating. Yes, you can use another piece of material to place at the bottom of the jaw face but now you have to hold another piece of material in place while you handle the main piece you want to work on. Stopping the bottom portion of the jaw from moving, and using extra fasteners to offset the additional jaw height, will solve the problem. This issue would not exist if the top of the casting and jaw was level with the bench top. This installation is also a wonderful demonstration of physics. Nice job, Keith... as always.
If your using bolts and a thick piece(s) of timber it should be fine, if like me you went thinner timber for the jaw an used screws. its going to start moving an pulling out the thread in now time.
You could remake the back plate with a sandwiched sheet of aluminum or SS, even get rid of one of the composite plywood layers. Personally I would use the hell out of it as it is and try to break it, over-clamping with small fiddly pieces. It will probably take a lot more to work it loose than you think.
Do you need the back plate/jaw? The frame backplate looks to be flush with the worktop. Why not use the edge of the worktop as the inner jaw. That way long material can be clamped to the edge of the bench with something like a holdfast on the far leg.
Why double thickness at the front please?
(I like the 'back' then forward for a clean drill hole!
I'm currently restoring an old vise and am wondering what you were using to lubricate the screw and guide rods at the very start of the video.
Why not drill two holes below the ones in the front and bolt through it spread the load
As it’s just a workshop vice can’t u just drill 2 extra holes through the front of the vice but lower down. That should stop it ever from pivoting.
What are the two drilled holes in the top of the outer vice jaw for?
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As you’re right handed, what’s the reason for putting your vice on the right hand side of the table?
If you need to plane stock in the opposite direction, your body will get in the way of the table, right?
What if I want to cut something off with a handsaw? I couldn't do that if it was on the left. Seems logical to put it on the right to me, even if woodworking convention says otherwise! Not had any issues with planing, I just rotate it in the vice
@@RagnBoneBrownit wouldn't change if you wanted to saw something, you need clearance for the saw either way, it being on the left gives you the option to hold the off cut with your left hand before it drops though.
But if you prefer it on the right, keep doing that, it works for you.
I'm a lefty, but I prefer woodworking vices on the left, and machinist vices in the center area of my bench, even though it's usually placed on the corner.
If it's comfortable, who cares!
add a chunk of steel the full width and height of the new jaws...
I'm looking at the price of hardwood, and the fact that I don't have in my hand, and I've got offcuts of birch ply sitting right there... One of them is by chance the exact correct length... 🤔
Huh?
My only concern is using the m6 roofing bolts, they have very low yield strength, it might be ok but if you notice it start to wobble use a m8 12.9 high tensile
An ugly solution may be to use longer bolts that come through the front and then using those attach another piece of wood that supports the top of the jaws.
meh, really only a problem if you are cranking down on tiny pieces all the time. If that is the case switch to your other vice. I like a pair of them, one on each end of the bench so a long board can be securely clamped.
You should restore that metal device it looks pretty disgusting
Bad idea, get a proper vice,don't be cheap!
Your bench is racking? Try to “brace” it to enable it to not move? Good ideas though.