The whole two worlds thing is incredibly stupid, Ian Flynn also mentioned how both worlds share the same locations which makes it even worse. Why have two worlds then? Just have one where humans and anthros co-exist, surely it can't be that hard to do.
@@dshaynietheawesome "let's just ignore all the world-building and lore we've established for 15+ years. Nobody is gonna miss them anyways." Now fans are begging for humans to come back to the series.
If they don’t want humans in sonic games just write the story so they don’t show up. That’s what they did in the mega drive games, advance trilogy, heroes, rush games, colours, generations & lost world. There’s no need for 2 separate worlds
My favorite terrible Sega mandate is the "only Tails and Eggman can be inventors" rule. Maybe a monolith came down from space, found Tails and Eggman crawling around naked in the dirt, and taught them and only them to use tools. They proceeded to make clothes for everyone.
Actually the thing Is dumber Sonic Boom was supposed to be Sonic Synergy an origin story of the spin off universe regarding the Blue Blur ... Buuuuuut Sega wanted to write Sonic's Origins ...
With the SOLE exception of the love interest thing, these make zero sense. Shadow is practically ruined, Tails can’t make up his mind, and Sonic doesn’t fare much better. He’s anthropomorphic for a reason. He needs those emotions, and he certainly needs to remember what it’s like to lose. Those two mandates in particular are probably my biggest pet peeves, with the Shadow one being a close third. The mandates, in my eyes, are the one thing left that could ruin Sonic 2022/Rangers for me, so I STRONGLY insist that Sega cleans up their act
Reasons why the mandates are BS: 1. Adventure 1 directly references the events of CD and 3&K in dialogue, meaning there is 1 dimension only 2. Generations’ Speed Highway humans can be seen (I think) 3. 3&K has human murals in Sandopolis 4. Team Dark in Heroes and 06 5. If Adventure 1 was on Saturn, it would’ve retained the classic designs
All of Sega Mandates must die for the system to work. Or Fire every one who supported and screwed up everything for all sonic fans and sonic characters along with genuinely good people that have lost their way because of the corruption within Sega.
1.) Tails sky portal: mint candy. 2.) Sonic Adventure 2: Afaird to talk to Rouge and sad. 3.) Sonic Chronicles: Her cards. 4.) Sonic generations: kunckles stands by grapes.
In reality he really does care for the series alot he has been around since 3&K and is responsible for some of the franchises favorites. But admittedly he’s tried to avoid things that he thinks fans don’t want and in trying to make games that he thinks has something for everyone some of the more important elements are undermined
@@dshaynietheawesome I do think that Sonic Adventure 3 should happen but, as an open world game. It would make sense. It’s the logical next step for the Sonic Adventure series when you really think about it.
Keep in mind that Iizuka doesn't have as much control over the brand as many may think. A lot these mandates may be Sega's doing and have nothing to do with him. The reason Shadow was playable at all in forces was because Iizuka was constantly pushing it.
Regarding some of those: 1) The "Sonic must not feel strong emotions" is a result of a whole 'nother rabbit hole due to an Archie Comic Books lawsuit that pretty much changed how Sega handles the comic books matter, and most likely, combined with Sonic '06 and the bad receptions from reviewers at the time, how they handled the games' stories. 2) "The world of Sonic must not have any money" might simply be a way for Sega to imply that they want Rings to be the only kind of currency. This still contradicts a few things that have been shown in the games, as you have mentioned in your video, but if you look at it from this perspective, it makes far more sense. 3) The Classic and Modern Sonic "World Split", with solidifying which characters should and should not appear in either, might be something they've decided due to the success of Sonic Mania, thus having seen the opportunity to fully divide the franchise into two separate series of games and media in general, as seen with the Sonic Mania shorts on Twitter. The "you are that Sonic from another dimension" line was probably an attempt by Sega to offer a canonical explanation, by implying that since the events of Generations, the world split into two different timelines, one where Adventure and the rest of the Modern installments take place after Soni 3K, and the other having Mania take place after that instead, though this is just speculation on my part. 4) By "the story of Sonic takes place across two worlds" thing probably wasn't meant to be taken *that* literally: what he most likely meant was that the Earth in Sonic has two main civilizations: the one belonging to Humans, and the one belonging to Anthro-Animals, and using "worlds" to refer to them as a metaphor. Still, this is probably an attempt to justify them wanting to get rid of humans, and there suddenly being a full modern civilization of "normal" Anthropomorphic Animals that has never been established to exist in the games' lore is still dumb.
Remember when Sonic from Sonic The Hedgehog (1991) was the same Sonic as the one in Black Knight? I really don't get why they decided to go with Classic being from another dimension, because along with Generations outright stating Classic Sonic was his younger self, this was also this from the Japanese script of Sonic Adventure Eggman: Hohohoho! Sonic! Sonic: It's you... Dr. Eggman! Eggman: Indeed! I am the world's great genius scientist, Dr. Eggman! Sonic: ...Long time no see. Eggman: I've stayed quiet for a while, but I'll be getting busy again. Now if that doesn't state the events from the 16-bit era are not connected to the Adventure era, I don't know what does.
@@DemonDethchase i seriously miss the more seriouse e rated sonic and u can tell they used to cater to everyone because oof the darker stories like the adventure games the era had some good games like shadow the hedgehog 2005 ans 06 had a great story but ever since the year 2010 sonics gone child friendly and boring and bland stories
@@freyaljones7368 if you don't already know about it look up Emi Jones' radio drama, Sonic and Tails R. It really is a love letter back to the time between 98-09, with a story that's not afraid to take itself seriously, and the characters actually act like they're supposed to. It also seems to be set within the game universe, given that it acknowledges past events, however it does not go any further than 09. So no there's no references to Wisps, Classic (Sonic) or the Deadly Six (thank god). I would say more but I'll leave you to discover the rest for yourself.
LMAO basically SEGA has no idea WTF they're even doing with Sonic and just keep making things up as they go. Sonic always had ONE history, ONE era. From Genesis to the Adventure Era. But now suddenly the events of the Genesis games are exclusive to Classic Sonic World? it's a load of BS. The Adventure Era expanded on Genesis Era because they were all connected. This is why I don't believe Izuka. he clearly doesn't know what he's talking about since the product contradicts his statements That's why the Sonic Encyclopedia idea is laughable and a total joke too
I thought both dimensions' timelines started at the Genesis games and the diversion happened after 3&K with Adventure in the main dimension and Mania in the Classic dimension.
The creation of shadow would be even more muddled since that super sonic shrine in hidden palace zone probably wouldn’t exist in this era. That would defeat the entire purpose of shadow being an hedgehog with a super form
@@jasondavis2381 Sonic And The Black Knight is my favorite Sonic game of all time. The adventures of Sonic the hedgehog did Sonic Colors, Sonic 06, Sonic And The Black Knight first. The Adventures of Sonic Hedgehog is my favorite Sonic cartoon of all time.
No alien species. No Kron. No Zoah. No N'rrgal. No Voxai. No Seedrians. No any alien species from another world. Except: Wisps. Always... always Wisps forever.
Seedrians were only in X to my knowledge, so Penders doesn't have anything to do with them. I don't think he has anything to do with those other guys beyond them being in Dark Brotherhood and the nonsense with the Nocturnus.
Ironically the mandates make Sonic more like Mario, when the reason he got so popular in the first place was because of how different he was from Mario.
Fun fact about the tarot thing: Tarot cards and fortune telling are considered a cute, girly pastime. Think Sailor Moon episode 2, where the villain tries to lure in schoolgirls to a trap via a fortune telling shop.
The reason a lot of these mandates are popping up is because Sega of Japan was partly bought by China. So a lot of elements are basically being toned down or censored.
Sonic lore retcons are like the "Don't mess with us X fans, we have no understanding of our favourite game series" meme except instead of the fandom it's the people that make the official content. My favourite thing about the Two Worlds thing is the _name._ The world that Sonic and co. allegedly hail from is known only as "Sonic's World." SEGA won't give it a real name, and the comics, both reboot Archie and IDW, are just not allowed to call it Mobius even though SEGA aren't offering any alternatives. Probably because acknowledging Mobius would involve admitting that SEGA of America had a good idea in the 90s, and SEGA of Japan are straight-up allergic to doing that. The other thing that made me laugh about the mandates was how much of a barrel they ended up being put over in the dying days of the original Archie continuity. Before Ken Penders pulled the ultimate "Taking your ball and going home" move, old Archie had the densest and richest lore in the setting and part of that was that basically every character had blood relatives. SEGA hated that, and mandated that Sonic not have any blood relatives... which would normally require Ian to take Sonic's parents (surprisingly beloved characters due to his father being the last Roboticized Mobian, who couldn't be turned back due to injuries, the angst that resulted from that, and that one time he made resident Villain Sue Scourge run away crying without raising a fist to him) out behind the shed with a shotgun... Except SEGA had also mandated that Sonic wasn't allowed to be sad, or experience any significant, lasting losses. SEGA wanted Jules and Bernie gone, but couldn't have them killed off because it would break another of their many rules. It did also result in a bit of accidental good storytelling, where Tails is unable to refer to his own mother as such, instead trailing off and being interrupted by another character, who addresses her by name. Normally it'd just be clumsy dialogue covering for a dumb rule, but it came at the end of a long saga of Tails' mother, Rosemary, being an _utterly unlikeable character_ whose defining trait was "Complaining that the heroes saved the world without asking her permission first", somehow managed to hold political office despite having spent the past decade on the other side of the galaxy, and had just made longtime villain, escaped convict, and _known instigator of the war that opened the door for Robotnik to take over the planet_ Ixis Naugus King-President. So instead of just being clunky dialogue, it instead looked like Tails was verging on disowning her because she was so awful. However, the mandates also utterly gutted the last arc of the preboot. That arc was _two years long,_ had a planned 25 issues (though not all of them released and like seven of the ones that did were filler episodes), and was apparently meant to be an ordeal of fire for the heroes, multiple consecutive darkest hours hitting them in a row in a series of events that them bouncing back from would prove that they were the planet's greatest heroes. In practice it meant that the comic-original protagonists dropped like flies over the course of the first five issues, leaving only Sonic, Tails, and Amy... who were invincible by way of SEGA mandate. Oops. Tails and Amy were sad for a while and Sonic was grumpy in those five issues (despite the obvious solution to his problems, using the Master Emerald to become Super Sonic, easily accessible to him the whole time), but once that was done, they were all smiles again. Ian seemingly skirted the "Sonic can't lose" rule by having him lose massively and then just... not be sad about it. It made the protagonists of the arc look like _colossal dicks,_ because while IRL it was obvious that these issues were caused by mandates, from a narrative perspective it just looked like they blatantly didn't give a shit about their friends almost dying and having their lives hanging in the balance for months on end. Hell, Sally got fridged _twice_ in that arc and and if you came in after Issue 235 you'd struggle to realise that she was remotely important to the characters without reading the "Previously" blurb. True, some of the blame lies at Ian's feet for deciding to tell this particular story over the course of _25 issues,_ if he'd truncated it (not hard with the amount of filler it contained, I once managed to cut it down to _11 issues_ by dumping all the distractions), and then played Sonic's attitude returning to normal as him putting it on to cope with what was happening, with hints that he was way less stable than he looked and the dam finally breaking when it was all resolved, he could've skirted the mandates and told a really good story with it. His need to make it a long-running epic absolutely screwed the pooch to an extent (Ian making his stories too goddamn long is a running trend, the Iron Dominion [preboot], Shattered World Crisis [reboot] and Metal Virus [IDW] arcs have all been hit with this accusation as well, all four landed on the TVTropes page for Arc Fatigue and the latter made it to _Too Bleak, Stopped Caring_ as well). But the mandates themselves deserve a significant portion of the blame nonetheless.
I like to think that the main head canon of the sonic universe is that humans always coexisted with anthropomorphic animals I think that's a better idea on how to maintain a universe
12:30 well, gerald was able to research the echidnas and contact black doom. Plus he had GUN backing him. If eggman can go to sonics world, i see no reason why Gerald cant have info about there
All that is referenced in the games tho. While it's never established in the games that Gerald ever travelled to "sonic's world" plus at the time, the adventure games referenced the classic games so it gives the idea that the human world is sonic's world, so he didn't need to go to another world Gerald had anthros just living in his already. At least until 2006.
You forgot to mention that Archie Sonic kept Mighty, Ray, Bark, Bean and Nack alive for YEARS before Sonic Mania was ever a thing. But apparently now in IDW Sonic they're stuck with the "They only exist in the Classic Sonic universe" guff. But who knows, with Classic Sonic now added to Sonic Racing Mobile, they suddenly re-retcon that he is Sonic's past self.
I think the “another dimension” thing was Forces having bad translation from JP to English. Same issue happened with the notion that Sonic was tortured
@@KYRA_RISING yeah the torture line was a translation error. But idk, last I checked even the Japanese version labeled Classic Sonic as someone from another dimension.
I'm pretty sure the intent is that Generations caused a split in the timeline that created the Classic Dimension. The overall timeline isn't changed, but what has is that now there's a parallel dimension set in the past.
The reason why Dr. Eggman put Shadow in the capsule between the events of Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Heroes, because he was trying to recover and restore Shadow's lost memories. However, Rouge the Bat released and woke up Shadow, and his memories were not fully recover and restore yet. This was all Rouge the Bat's fault. If she never found Shadow in Dr. Eggman's secret base in the first place, none of this would ever happen.
Yeahhhh I’m pretty sure he rescued shadow because he didn’t want him to die after everything that happened in Sa2 and kept him in a capsual for his own selfish reasons eg shadow androids
Sonic Adventure/Dreamcast Era R.I.P. (sniff) 1.) Sonic Adventure 2.) Sonic Shuffle 3.) Sonic Adventure 2 Battle 4.) Sonic Advance 5.) Sonic Advance 2 6.) Sonic Heroes 7.) Sonic Pinball Party 8.) Sonic Battle (Gameboy Advance) 9.) Sonic Advance 3 Gone and forgotten forever.
Maybe it's kinda mean to say it this way but here's the fact of the matter: They clearly have no idea wtf they're doing. Manual says this thing but then the game contradicts that fact and then Sonic Team will state something in an interview that's supposed to be unquestionable fact but then do something completely different in the next game or comics. Currency and a political system exist, Shadow *has* friends, classic and modern games *are* the same timeline, the human world and the animal world *are* the same world. Sonic Team can pretend that's not the case but unless they reboot the series they are simply wrong and we shouldn't listen to them, because the creators/owners of an IP say something's canon doesn't mean it is, just like with J.K. Rowling when she claimed Hermione Granger was always a black woman and not white except from the movies but, uh, no, no she wasn't, only in the theatrical play of The Cursed Child for no reason. They cannot change facts or alter the past, no matter how loud they scream.
As far as I can tell, we followed the same Sonic from the first game allllll the way up to Shadow the Hedgehog. Then Sonic 06 happened, which was apparently designed to be something of a reboot for the series. And it was! In the sense that the series would no longer have an actual continuity anymore. Sonic Colors leads directly into Generations, and Generations engages in timeline shenanigans to be connected to every game in the series regardless of any continuity elements in play, but aside from that every game from 06 onwards may as well be its own separate world where you can assume SOME kinds of adventures have happened, but whether or not they look anything like any of the games we've seen previously isn't something knowable or relevant. Even when trying to directly reference the likes of Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 in Forces, the way characters behave, the way the world operates, its pretty clear that whatever happened in this world's version of the Adventure games doesn't line up with what we saw back in the day.
Shadow became who he is in 06 because of what happened after The Last Way of Last Story in his game, he isn't a GUN Agent or accepted for no reason. Every Last Story is the true ending for the Sonic games, we've seen this in previous games and Shadow 05's Last Story is no different, 06 also continues this.
If Shadow hated the human world (planet Earth) and Sonic's world. Then he needs to be banish to another planet or another world. Similar to Planet Hulk.
A translation error that made it into the voice recording, editing and final game, and nobody picked up that it didn’t make sense in the context of the story?
I really hope that the inevitable success of the third movie and it having Shadow actually act like Shadow, finally slaps some sense into Sega and makes them relize what Sonic fans have known for over ten years. THAT THE MANDATES THAT THEY HAVE NOW ARE ACTIVLY HURTING THE GAME FRANCHISE. They then throw the old Pontaff era madates in the paper shredder and write new ones with the knowledge of what worked with the movies, Prime, and Frontiers. Here are some suggestions: 1. Sonic being able to feel more than 3 emotions. 2. Sonic being able to lose occasionally in the comics and tv shows. 3. Having Shadow actually be himself instead of an edgy cunt bag boardering on parody who "Doesn't need friends" despite Rouge and Omega being right there and that he doesn't always have to fight Sonic everytime the two are on screen together. (Yes. I know know Sega has slowly been changing the mandates with the two worlds thing and Classic Sonic being from another universe being scrapped, but what they REALLY need are new, refreshed, and definitely less stupid mandates.)
Is it official that they scrapped the thing where classic Sonic and modern Sonic are from 2 secrete dimensions? and if so does that rule where Mighty, Ray and other classic era characters that appeared in spinoffs are only allowed to appear in classic related material still applies? (Sorry if I'm bothering you)
I think Sega, Sonic Team, Archie, and IDW are trying to make Shadow evil and turn to the dark side (again). But in Shadow the Hedgehog (2005 video game), that didn't work out. I have a feeling Sega is trying to do this again and pretend nothing happen.
I mean Ian tries anyway possibile to make Shadow return to One he was (the idea of Shadow trying to save Rouge removing his inibitor Rings was botched) When *that One Guy* left Shadow in Archie was cool, being almost cheerful But Sega Just want to capitalize on the "i am a Vegeta Clone"
Fanbase: Why is there either one human in Eggman and furry NPCs or human NPCs and no furry NPC? Me: That's a very good question SEGA: Because there are two worlds; one where humans live and one where furries live Fanbase: That just raises further questions!
I can see the two worlds thing. It can work, if they explained it instead of just saying it on a whim, also if they didn't throw away 15+ years of lore.
I enjoyed the video, but the sound balancing needs work. There are multiple occasions where the music drowns out the commentary, which is problematic. Not not as problematic as the Two Worlds mandate.
I decided that I will not even try anymore to argue with Sega's decisions because all of these retcons were made due to fanbase activity anyways. One cannot fight fire with fire, it is futile. But the two world-thing made me emotional because not only are many diffrent ruins(Angel island, Mystic ruins, red mountain, the black arms-ruins and pumpkin hill) clearly connected lorewise and thus exist in the same world, but Green Hill is literally an uncertain distance south of the SA2-map! It's just dumb. 14:46 Also, the basic idea of the amy-thing here is actually still relevant or at least was until after 2008. Amy clearly has...or rather "had" special abilities. She could sense other people being present for instance....Which is also the canonical reason why she hugged Shadow and Silver due to certain semicomplex details, but nomatter how often I break it down, people just gotta say it's nonsense and that is actually where my stance from the first sentence partially comes from. Trying to force a change here in either the fanbase or the series is just bound to make everything worse.
I'd just choose to ignore it. Their products contradict their own claims. So clearly the games are saying one thing, while they're saying the opposite. Sonic had consistent lore from the Genesis to the Adventure era because it was all one history, one flow of events. That's why despite the gameplay being different, I've always considered Sonic Unleashed to be a Pseudo Adventure game.
The two worlds thing is literally impossible because in SA2, Green Hill (and South Island as a whole) isn't located that far away from City Escape, both on the same world.
Yes on a map but Greenhills isn't it's own Islands part of South Island. Also again it's just an unlockable for getting everything that doesn't mean it's canon in my opinion. But If you think it is that I respect your opinion.
One of the problems of seeing Sonic in 3D is like... how does he make his mouth slide from one side of his face to the other? It's very distracting how it's like on one side of his face lmao. Like if you were looking at him from the other side, he'd appear to have no mouth from your perspective.
I think the Classic/Modern split makes a bit more sense as a timeline split or multiverse theory or whatever you wanna call it. Modern Sonic never met his future self and the Classic Sonic we see in the newer games is from the post-Generations timeline where he _did_ meet his future self.
Honestly these mandates are hurting the series more then they are helping. Imagine a Sonic Adventure 2 remake but they completely remove the scene where Shadow cries. I would be livid. Oh and I'm in the minority on this but I personally think they could give Sonic a love life. They just don't even try writing Amy that well for it to work...
How the heck does kirby have more coherent lore and consistency and better story decisions then SEGA... SEGA think about that how did we end up in this time line
Iizuka should just have some kind of *sonic lore master* next to him at all times to keep reminding him of things when doing future sonic games and in interviews.
If I remember well the two worlds thing came from a kind of bible made in the development of Sonic 1. Talking about the classic dimension: there is the dimension that goes from Sonic 1 to Forces and the dimension in which Sonic 1, 2, 3&K, CD, those obscure arcade games and Mania happened (probably not in that exact order).
Modern cities were in the first games too, sure as backgrounds. But I like to think people do also live there. Robotnik's a people. I think with the science fiction elements, Sonic and cast can cross worlds/universes given the right circumstance. So human worlds and non human worlds and hybrid worlds can exist. Unless all planets exist in the same world and they just planet hop.
Ya know sometimes I think about South Island from sonic 1 it seems apparent the only inhabitants are sonic and the small animals but there existence of spring yard zone and starlight zone looks like there had been a 20th century style civilization there that had since been abandoned years beforehand. And then even more so the existence of marble zone and labyrinth zone making it look like they were once home to an ancient civilization not too dissimilar from the echidna tribe but there are a lot of depictions of what look like owls
@@dshaynietheawesome Casino Night zone also has a city in it, and it looks like it is active with lights moving along, kinda like traffic. At least in the second game. But yeah Sonic 1 has at least 2 cities and if you count scrap brain, Robotnik had to have built that for somebody. I hadn't taken note of the owl thing.
@@keiser1188 possibly there is still so much we don't know about the islands from the classic games as back then creating level themes was mostly irrelevant from connected stories and anything story related was usually an afterthought so who knows whats really goin on
I doubt it, but it would be nice if they just brought back the original lore from the Genesis and Adventure Era, making one connected world and lore again. If we actually do get a reboot officially, I would hope they make it so all games post Sonic Unleashed weren't cannon/wipe 06 from cannon, and just continue off of Unleashed
@@littenfire3563 >Leave the Classic alone. They're fine as is and need no reboot themselves. Just move them over to the rebooted continuity. >Remake or remaster SA1 and 2 as a single game with an updated Chao system (being able to move Chao to and from the SA1 and 2 Gardens, make it easier to get Hero and Darks in SA1, fixing up Shiny Jewel hybrids, etc.). >Do something with the GBA games so we can keep Cream, Vanilla, and even the Gizoids around. >Remake Heroes with different levels for the other 3 teams (though Chaotix's are different enough with their missions) >Go from there, dropping the bullcrap with aliens as Shadow's backstory, and bring in some of the later games at some point like Unleashed. Also reboot the Rush/Blazeverse continuity with Silver in it so he has an actual reason to team up with Blaze frequently in the spinoffs. I also wouldn't be against rebooting Colors to keep the Wisps around and do the writing and gameplay in that game some justice.
I personally prefer Classic Sonic (Mania, Gens, Forces, Superstars) being in his own dimension. I really like the idea that after the events of Gens, it caused a split in the timeline. This being what would become Classic Sonic’s dimension. This allows Sega to make more Classic Sonic stories without having to adhere to the Modern Sonic part of the timeline. So basically, I wish they tried developing on the idea that Classic Sonic came from another dimension. Instead of making it Modern Sonic’s past. Causing more confusion with how Modern Sonic never brings up Gens, Mania, and Forces in the future when they would be relevant. And it makes it harder to do some story elements with new Classic titles without being inconsistent with Modern entries. I do think tho, it would be fine seeing many Classic elements currently branded as Classic to come back in the Modern half of the series.
Sonic team for years has tried to have things for sonic be be both ways - world building a setting (half-baked more often than not) BUT also as non-consiquential as Mario's inconsistent settings. These mandates just seem to be veering the series into that second category more. This irritated me back when I was a huge sonic fanboy around the time Unleashed was out, to the point of killing my interest in the direction of the series since. recently I've been looking into how it's been and good God it's gotten worse. I'm glad freedom planet exists and the sequel is tentatively around the corner, lord knows we aren't getting mania 2.
Apparently Evening Star Studio (a new team composed of devs who worked on Sonic Mania) is creating their own original 3D platformer. Not sure if it's going to be a Sonic-like game or something else entirely, but either way I'm expecting it'll most likely be good. So that's something to look forward to, at least. Probably for the best too, since this way they won't have upper management breathing down their neck at every turn.
@NEED4SPD203 BMW ruclips.net/video/LcErzjdoR94/видео.html The "Classic" design looks fine in 3D. As for Shadow, it's not like he couldn't exist in the Classic era, his background just needs reworking. As for G.U.N., they haven't been a thing for a long time (in the games at least), so it's not like we're loosing too much.
Political system doesn't mean political agenda. A government existing is an example of a political system, and well... It doesn't make any sense for there not to be one, especially considering the prior games.
I gotta admit, the Sonic franchise is such a inconsistent rollercoaster of continuity failure and retcons. Can't we just settle on the basic worldbuilding that's been made on the current era?
Every one should should be questing the Mandates, we had a freer multiverse bigger than Spider-Man, Avengers, DC Heroes, and TMNT! I even just learned about the canceled “Sega Blackbelt” game system.
I have no problem with mandates, cause you know gotta protect your property. I do however have a problem with how many mandates there are and how weird or specific some of them are.
I mean, he didn't really interact with anyone for a long while in his life time, and when he finally did, it was with rough and tough guys. He's a competer, and not ever girl is into that, so I guess he doesn't know how to act? Idk, I'm reading way to far into this haha.
Some things are pretty good but the majority like writing, it was a huge mistake and it aging horribly including games like Gens amplify my regret with the last decade, Mania, DS Colors and Lego Dimensions probably the only games that are completely amazing games all the way.
12:54 I disagree, the problem with Unleashed’s humans is that the styles are still clashing. Now you have Japanese Pixar characters next to Japanese American 1930s cartoon like characters. It’s better, but I think it would be better to put humans in the same artstyle as the anthros. Actually, I think Sonic’s man of the year animation or whatever, and that art of a human kid people thought looked like the official human Sonic, were the closest examples to humans in the Sonic artstyle. Besides, funny enough, technically with the amount of Sonic continuities with more realistic/realistic leaning human designs. It makes the humans prior to Unleashed ironically more accurate to the rest of the franchise.
@@dshaynietheawesome I always thought SEGA made Sonic and friends shells of their former selves to avoid further legal action from Ken Penders. Mainly because Sonic and friends were much more emotional in the Archie comics and how Penders had so much influence on those comics and how much trouble he caused for Archie, SEGA, and EA legally. So SEGA made Sonic and everyone else mostly one dimensional characters in both the comics and the games? I could be wrong tho. This just from what I’ve seen.
@@thephantomgamingbros.6329 that doesn't make sense because the games have nothing to do with the comics what so ever the comics are mostly thier own stories that adapt stuff from the games and games inturn don't take anything from the comics, except for chronicles which was a spinoff RPG made by bioware where they made a evil echidna tribe a concept similar to characters ken penders made for archie which he got offended by
We technically already have. The 2010s marks the Sonic Colors Era/Meta Era of Sonic officially beginning. ALL lore from the Genesis to the Adventure era had basically been retconned and are now only REFERENCED in the modern games as a way to draw in Adventure fans vs staying true to past lore.
Magical islands that teleport between planets I’d say that’s dumb if it weren’t a series with a island that floats in the sky and a miniature planet that teleports over a lake
The whole two worlds thing is incredibly stupid, Ian Flynn also mentioned how both worlds share the same locations which makes it even worse. Why have two worlds then? Just have one where humans and anthros co-exist, surely it can't be that hard to do.
Well that’s exactly how the sonic seres Was...prior to 2010
@@dshaynietheawesome SEGA learning the wrong lessons as usual.
@@MegaGeek-gr6ts hmm people didn't like 06 and unleashed got it BYE HUMANS!
@@dshaynietheawesome "let's just ignore all the world-building and lore we've established for 15+ years. Nobody is gonna miss them anyways."
Now fans are begging for humans to come back to the series.
If they don’t want humans in sonic games just write the story so they don’t show up. That’s what they did in the mega drive games, advance trilogy, heroes, rush games, colours, generations & lost world. There’s no need for 2 separate worlds
My favorite terrible Sega mandate is the "only Tails and Eggman can be inventors" rule. Maybe a monolith came down from space, found Tails and Eggman crawling around naked in the dirt, and taught them and only them to use tools. They proceeded to make clothes for everyone.
Starline's introduction immediately breaks that mandate
@@newdawnhorizon9879 no he's not an inventor.
he's an _originator_
@cosmik He's an inventor that bad mouths Eggman while using his tech
@@newdawnhorizon9879 hey may use his tech but he could not catch those hands
Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric was meant to be Sonic Origins, as in an origin story for Sonic, but SEGA forbade origin stories for him.
Wat
That is so stupid
That’s partially not true. It was originally meant to be Sonic Synergy. Not Sonic Origins but, it was going to be an origin story.
The Sonic origins rumor was just a rumor and the rumor goes that a new 2D Sonic game will come out called Sonic Origins.
Actually the thing Is dumber
Sonic Boom was supposed to be Sonic Synergy an origin story of the spin off universe regarding the Blue Blur ...
Buuuuuut Sega wanted to write Sonic's Origins ...
With the SOLE exception of the love interest thing, these make zero sense. Shadow is practically ruined, Tails can’t make up his mind, and Sonic doesn’t fare much better. He’s anthropomorphic for a reason. He needs those emotions, and he certainly needs to remember what it’s like to lose. Those two mandates in particular are probably my biggest pet peeves, with the Shadow one being a close third.
The mandates, in my eyes, are the one thing left that could ruin Sonic 2022/Rangers for me, so I STRONGLY insist that Sega cleans up their act
Yeah, good luck with that, lol.
This series's lore is about as cohesive as pure mercury
Reasons why the mandates are BS:
1. Adventure 1 directly references the events of CD and 3&K in dialogue, meaning there is 1 dimension only
2. Generations’ Speed Highway humans can be seen (I think)
3. 3&K has human murals in Sandopolis
4. Team Dark in Heroes and 06
5. If Adventure 1 was on Saturn, it would’ve retained the classic designs
I can only pray that we can truly find hope in Ian Flynn's words when he said "don't worry about the 2 worlds thing anymore"...
@@TheFrostedfirefly that comment by Ian is too vague for me to say that the 2 worlds thing will definitely be retconned.
@@sayer4148 agreed
Ken Penders
All of Sega Mandates must die for the system to work.
Or Fire every one who supported and screwed up everything for all sonic fans and sonic characters along with genuinely good people that have lost their way because of the corruption within Sega.
"[...] and Sega just kind of learned the wrong lessons from that."
What a perfect summary of everything that happened past 06
1.) Tails sky portal: mint candy.
2.) Sonic Adventure 2: Afaird to talk to Rouge and sad.
3.) Sonic Chronicles: Her cards.
4.) Sonic generations: kunckles stands by grapes.
Afraid not sad.
3) She also uses the cards to track down Rouge and Emerl in Sonic battle.
@@rynobehnke8289 true
@Chainmaster34 yes.
Takashi lizuka should just move away from Sonic and get someone who seems to care more
In reality he really does care for the series alot he has been around since 3&K and is responsible for some of the franchises favorites. But admittedly he’s tried to avoid things that he thinks fans don’t want and in trying to make games that he thinks has something for everyone some of the more important elements are undermined
@@dshaynietheawesome You’re right. He wants to make the franchise better than it currently is and he works very hard to please the fans.
@@dshaynietheawesome I do think that Sonic Adventure 3 should happen but, as an open world game. It would make sense. It’s the logical next step for the Sonic Adventure series when you really think about it.
Keep in mind that Iizuka doesn't have as much control over the brand as many may think. A lot these mandates may be Sega's doing and have nothing to do with him. The reason Shadow was playable at all in forces was because Iizuka was constantly pushing it.
@@benraven9087 Thanks for the info. It’s very important information.
Regarding some of those:
1) The "Sonic must not feel strong emotions" is a result of a whole 'nother rabbit hole due to an Archie Comic Books lawsuit that pretty much changed how Sega handles the comic books matter, and most likely, combined with Sonic '06 and the bad receptions from reviewers at the time, how they handled the games' stories.
2) "The world of Sonic must not have any money" might simply be a way for Sega to imply that they want Rings to be the only kind of currency. This still contradicts a few things that have been shown in the games, as you have mentioned in your video, but if you look at it from this perspective, it makes far more sense.
3) The Classic and Modern Sonic "World Split", with solidifying which characters should and should not appear in either, might be something they've decided due to the success of Sonic Mania, thus having seen the opportunity to fully divide the franchise into two separate series of games and media in general, as seen with the Sonic Mania shorts on Twitter. The "you are that Sonic from another dimension" line was probably an attempt by Sega to offer a canonical explanation, by implying that since the events of Generations, the world split into two different timelines, one where Adventure and the rest of the Modern installments take place after Soni 3K, and the other having Mania take place after that instead, though this is just speculation on my part.
4) By "the story of Sonic takes place across two worlds" thing probably wasn't meant to be taken *that* literally: what he most likely meant was that the Earth in Sonic has two main civilizations: the one belonging to Humans, and the one belonging to Anthro-Animals, and using "worlds" to refer to them as a metaphor. Still, this is probably an attempt to justify them wanting to get rid of humans, and there suddenly being a full modern civilization of "normal" Anthropomorphic Animals that has never been established to exist in the games' lore is still dumb.
Remember the good old days were sonic was shonen from 1991 to 2009 the good old days because they were no mandates
Remember when Sonic from Sonic The Hedgehog (1991) was the same Sonic as the one in Black Knight? I really don't get why they decided to go with Classic being from another dimension, because along with Generations outright stating Classic Sonic was his younger self, this was also this from the Japanese script of Sonic Adventure
Eggman: Hohohoho! Sonic!
Sonic: It's you... Dr. Eggman!
Eggman: Indeed! I am the world's great genius scientist, Dr. Eggman!
Sonic: ...Long time no see.
Eggman: I've stayed quiet for a while, but I'll be getting busy again.
Now if that doesn't state the events from the 16-bit era are not connected to the Adventure era, I don't know what does.
@@DemonDethchase i seriously miss the more seriouse e rated sonic and u can tell they used to cater to everyone because oof the darker stories like the adventure games the era had some good games like shadow the hedgehog 2005 ans 06 had a great story but ever since the year 2010 sonics gone child friendly and boring and bland stories
@@freyaljones7368 if you don't already know about it look up Emi Jones' radio drama, Sonic and Tails R. It really is a love letter back to the time between 98-09, with a story that's not afraid to take itself seriously, and the characters actually act like they're supposed to. It also seems to be set within the game universe, given that it acknowledges past events, however it does not go any further than 09. So no there's no references to Wisps, Classic (Sonic) or the Deadly Six (thank god). I would say more but I'll leave you to discover the rest for yourself.
You can thank Ken Penders for causing said mandates.
LMAO basically SEGA has no idea WTF they're even doing with Sonic and just keep making things up as they go. Sonic always had ONE history, ONE era. From Genesis to the Adventure Era. But now suddenly the events of the Genesis games are exclusive to Classic Sonic World? it's a load of BS. The Adventure Era expanded on Genesis Era because they were all connected. This is why I don't believe Izuka. he clearly doesn't know what he's talking about since the product contradicts his statements That's why the Sonic Encyclopedia idea is laughable and a total joke too
I thought both dimensions' timelines started at the Genesis games and the diversion happened after 3&K with Adventure in the main dimension and Mania in the Classic dimension.
Newcomers think Iizuka is accurate after getting debunked
Ken Penders lawsuit and the Sonic encyclospeedia has some incorrect information
The creation of shadow would be even more muddled since that super sonic shrine in hidden palace zone probably wouldn’t exist in this era.
That would defeat the entire purpose of shadow being an hedgehog with a super form
I miss the "Dark" Ages/4Kids era.
WILL TOO FIIIIGHT AND I’LL KEET YOU EYE TO EEEEYE AND I’LL SURVIIIIIVE
@@crashban4t.f.s.b783 I just found out that you got that from The Black Knight.
@@jasondavis2381 Sonic And The Black Knight is my favorite Sonic game of all time. The adventures of Sonic the hedgehog did Sonic Colors, Sonic 06, Sonic And The Black Knight first. The Adventures of Sonic Hedgehog is my favorite Sonic cartoon of all time.
Me too, bud. me too.
I miss everything pre Generations.
These videos really just show me how hard Ken Penders' shenanigans shafted everybody lmao
No alien species. No Kron. No Zoah. No N'rrgal. No Voxai. No Seedrians. No any alien species from another world.
Except: Wisps. Always... always Wisps forever.
Thank Ken Penders for that
I still hate that guy.
Seedrians were only in X to my knowledge, so Penders doesn't have anything to do with them. I don't think he has anything to do with those other guys beyond them being in Dark Brotherhood and the nonsense with the Nocturnus.
@@kunlesanders me too
The Shadow mandate triggers me the most. It’s 100% the reason no one takes him seriously anymore and is endlessly meme’d as Edgy The Hedgy.
Ironically the mandates make Sonic more like Mario, when the reason he got so popular in the first place was because of how different he was from Mario.
Fun fact about the tarot thing: Tarot cards and fortune telling are considered a cute, girly pastime. Think Sailor Moon episode 2, where the villain tries to lure in schoolgirls to a trap via a fortune telling shop.
The reason a lot of these mandates are popping up is because Sega of Japan was partly bought by China. So a lot of elements are basically being toned down or censored.
20 years of continuity thrown away for this.
Post-OMD!Spider-Man: "First time?"
Once it happens, a man's reality is crumbling itself.
Also, G.U.N. stands for Guardian Units of Nations.
Honestly, considering it's parodying the US government and FBI...shouldn't it be called "Guardians of United Nations"?
Sonic lore retcons are like the "Don't mess with us X fans, we have no understanding of our favourite game series" meme except instead of the fandom it's the people that make the official content.
My favourite thing about the Two Worlds thing is the _name._ The world that Sonic and co. allegedly hail from is known only as "Sonic's World." SEGA won't give it a real name, and the comics, both reboot Archie and IDW, are just not allowed to call it Mobius even though SEGA aren't offering any alternatives. Probably because acknowledging Mobius would involve admitting that SEGA of America had a good idea in the 90s, and SEGA of Japan are straight-up allergic to doing that.
The other thing that made me laugh about the mandates was how much of a barrel they ended up being put over in the dying days of the original Archie continuity. Before Ken Penders pulled the ultimate "Taking your ball and going home" move, old Archie had the densest and richest lore in the setting and part of that was that basically every character had blood relatives. SEGA hated that, and mandated that Sonic not have any blood relatives... which would normally require Ian to take Sonic's parents (surprisingly beloved characters due to his father being the last Roboticized Mobian, who couldn't be turned back due to injuries, the angst that resulted from that, and that one time he made resident Villain Sue Scourge run away crying without raising a fist to him) out behind the shed with a shotgun...
Except SEGA had also mandated that Sonic wasn't allowed to be sad, or experience any significant, lasting losses. SEGA wanted Jules and Bernie gone, but couldn't have them killed off because it would break another of their many rules. It did also result in a bit of accidental good storytelling, where Tails is unable to refer to his own mother as such, instead trailing off and being interrupted by another character, who addresses her by name. Normally it'd just be clumsy dialogue covering for a dumb rule, but it came at the end of a long saga of Tails' mother, Rosemary, being an _utterly unlikeable character_ whose defining trait was "Complaining that the heroes saved the world without asking her permission first", somehow managed to hold political office despite having spent the past decade on the other side of the galaxy, and had just made longtime villain, escaped convict, and _known instigator of the war that opened the door for Robotnik to take over the planet_ Ixis Naugus King-President. So instead of just being clunky dialogue, it instead looked like Tails was verging on disowning her because she was so awful.
However, the mandates also utterly gutted the last arc of the preboot. That arc was _two years long,_ had a planned 25 issues (though not all of them released and like seven of the ones that did were filler episodes), and was apparently meant to be an ordeal of fire for the heroes, multiple consecutive darkest hours hitting them in a row in a series of events that them bouncing back from would prove that they were the planet's greatest heroes.
In practice it meant that the comic-original protagonists dropped like flies over the course of the first five issues, leaving only Sonic, Tails, and Amy... who were invincible by way of SEGA mandate. Oops. Tails and Amy were sad for a while and Sonic was grumpy in those five issues (despite the obvious solution to his problems, using the Master Emerald to become Super Sonic, easily accessible to him the whole time), but once that was done, they were all smiles again. Ian seemingly skirted the "Sonic can't lose" rule by having him lose massively and then just... not be sad about it.
It made the protagonists of the arc look like _colossal dicks,_ because while IRL it was obvious that these issues were caused by mandates, from a narrative perspective it just looked like they blatantly didn't give a shit about their friends almost dying and having their lives hanging in the balance for months on end.
Hell, Sally got fridged _twice_ in that arc and and if you came in after Issue 235 you'd struggle to realise that she was remotely important to the characters without reading the "Previously" blurb.
True, some of the blame lies at Ian's feet for deciding to tell this particular story over the course of _25 issues,_ if he'd truncated it (not hard with the amount of filler it contained, I once managed to cut it down to _11 issues_ by dumping all the distractions), and then played Sonic's attitude returning to normal as him putting it on to cope with what was happening, with hints that he was way less stable than he looked and the dam finally breaking when it was all resolved, he could've skirted the mandates and told a really good story with it. His need to make it a long-running epic absolutely screwed the pooch to an extent (Ian making his stories too goddamn long is a running trend, the Iron Dominion [preboot], Shattered World Crisis [reboot] and Metal Virus [IDW] arcs have all been hit with this accusation as well, all four landed on the TVTropes page for Arc Fatigue and the latter made it to _Too Bleak, Stopped Caring_ as well). But the mandates themselves deserve a significant portion of the blame nonetheless.
those arcs were not that long lmao, they were shorter then this wall of text.
I like to think that the main head canon of the sonic universe is that humans always coexisted with anthropomorphic animals I think that's a better idea on how to maintain a universe
Tailstube pretty much confirms that
12:30 well, gerald was able to research the echidnas and contact black doom. Plus he had GUN backing him.
If eggman can go to sonics world, i see no reason why Gerald cant have info about there
All that is referenced in the games tho. While it's never established in the games that Gerald ever travelled to "sonic's world" plus at the time, the adventure games referenced the classic games so it gives the idea that the human world is sonic's world, so he didn't need to go to another world Gerald had anthros just living in his already. At least until 2006.
Why can't Sega just hire Shiro Maekawa back to write for the series?
I'm sure he quit for the same reasons as Yuji Naka.
@@X2011racer Actually he hasn't worked on anything other than the Sonic games.
You forgot to mention that Archie Sonic kept Mighty, Ray, Bark, Bean and Nack alive for YEARS before Sonic Mania was ever a thing. But apparently now in IDW Sonic they're stuck with the "They only exist in the Classic Sonic universe" guff. But who knows, with Classic Sonic now added to Sonic Racing Mobile, they suddenly re-retcon that he is Sonic's past self.
I think the “another dimension” thing was Forces having bad translation from JP to English. Same issue happened with the notion that Sonic was tortured
@@KYRA_RISING yeah the torture line was a translation error. But idk, last I checked even the Japanese version labeled Classic Sonic as someone from another dimension.
I'm pretty sure the intent is that Generations caused a split in the timeline that created the Classic Dimension. The overall timeline isn't changed, but what has is that now there's a parallel dimension set in the past.
The reason why Dr. Eggman put Shadow in the capsule between the events of Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Heroes, because he was trying to recover and restore Shadow's lost memories. However, Rouge the Bat released and woke up Shadow, and his memories were not fully recover and restore yet. This was all Rouge the Bat's fault. If she never found Shadow in Dr. Eggman's secret base in the first place, none of this would ever happen.
what are you even going on about
Yeahhhh I’m pretty sure he rescued shadow because he didn’t want him to die after everything that happened in Sa2 and kept him in a capsual for his own selfish reasons eg shadow androids
@@dshaynietheawesome
Makes perfect sense.
The only good thing that the mandates did was making sure that Sonic didn’t have a love interest.
I agree too, but why do you personally think so?
@@robertlesley9112 for the shippers
I disagree but at the same times I agree.
Yeah, it’s better this way. Everything else, tho? Hard no
Bruh i don’t want another mha ship situation
Sonic Adventure/Dreamcast Era R.I.P. (sniff)
1.) Sonic Adventure
2.) Sonic Shuffle
3.) Sonic Adventure 2 Battle
4.) Sonic Advance
5.) Sonic Advance 2
6.) Sonic Heroes
7.) Sonic Pinball Party
8.) Sonic Battle (Gameboy Advance)
9.) Sonic Advance 3
Gone and forgotten forever.
The Classic fans won 😭😭😭
Maybe it's kinda mean to say it this way but here's the fact of the matter: They clearly have no idea wtf they're doing. Manual says this thing but then the game contradicts that fact and then Sonic Team will state something in an interview that's supposed to be unquestionable fact but then do something completely different in the next game or comics. Currency and a political system exist, Shadow *has* friends, classic and modern games *are* the same timeline, the human world and the animal world *are* the same world. Sonic Team can pretend that's not the case but unless they reboot the series they are simply wrong and we shouldn't listen to them, because the creators/owners of an IP say something's canon doesn't mean it is, just like with J.K. Rowling when she claimed Hermione Granger was always a black woman and not white except from the movies but, uh, no, no she wasn't, only in the theatrical play of The Cursed Child for no reason. They cannot change facts or alter the past, no matter how loud they scream.
As far as I can tell, we followed the same Sonic from the first game allllll the way up to Shadow the Hedgehog. Then Sonic 06 happened, which was apparently designed to be something of a reboot for the series. And it was! In the sense that the series would no longer have an actual continuity anymore. Sonic Colors leads directly into Generations, and Generations engages in timeline shenanigans to be connected to every game in the series regardless of any continuity elements in play, but aside from that every game from 06 onwards may as well be its own separate world where you can assume SOME kinds of adventures have happened, but whether or not they look anything like any of the games we've seen previously isn't something knowable or relevant. Even when trying to directly reference the likes of Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 in Forces, the way characters behave, the way the world operates, its pretty clear that whatever happened in this world's version of the Adventure games doesn't line up with what we saw back in the day.
sonic 06 did follow the already established continuity tho.
Shadow became who he is in 06 because of what happened after The Last Way of Last Story in his game, he isn't a GUN Agent or accepted for no reason. Every Last Story is the true ending for the Sonic games, we've seen this in previous games and Shadow 05's Last Story is no different, 06 also continues this.
12:23 "And Black Doom, but just ignore him" lmao
If Shadow hated the human world (planet Earth) and Sonic's world. Then he needs to be banish to another planet or another world.
Similar to Planet Hulk.
my guy he's already good
For the last time....
SONIC
WAS
NOT
TORTURED
IN
FORCES.
IT
WAS
A
TRANSLATION
ERROR
Ok
A translation error that made it into the voice recording, editing and final game, and nobody picked up that it didn’t make sense in the context of the story?
Doesn’t matter, it’s still canon.
@@Sydney_Angelyt explains why it’s taking a while for the next game. Sonic is getting therapy.
@@BH-98 or dealing with all the copyright lawsuits against him in universe.
The people in charge of these mandates obviously don't care about continuity. I shouldn't either, but damn it bothers me.
Same
I really hope that the inevitable success of the third movie and it having Shadow actually act like Shadow, finally slaps some sense into Sega and makes them relize what Sonic fans have known for over ten years. THAT THE MANDATES THAT THEY HAVE NOW ARE ACTIVLY HURTING THE GAME FRANCHISE. They then throw the old Pontaff era madates in the paper shredder and write new ones with the knowledge of what worked with the movies, Prime, and Frontiers.
Here are some suggestions:
1. Sonic being able to feel more than 3 emotions.
2. Sonic being able to lose occasionally in the comics and tv shows.
3. Having Shadow actually be himself instead of an edgy cunt bag boardering on parody who "Doesn't need friends" despite Rouge and Omega being right there and that he doesn't always have to fight Sonic everytime the two are on screen together.
(Yes. I know know Sega has slowly been changing the mandates with the two worlds thing and Classic Sonic being from another universe being scrapped, but what they REALLY need are new, refreshed, and definitely less stupid mandates.)
Is it official that they scrapped the thing where classic Sonic and modern Sonic are from 2 secrete dimensions? and if so does that rule where Mighty, Ray and other classic era characters that appeared in spinoffs are only allowed to appear in classic related material still applies? (Sorry if I'm bothering you)
I think Sega, Sonic Team, Archie, and IDW are trying to make Shadow evil and turn to the dark side (again).
But in Shadow the Hedgehog (2005 video game), that didn't work out.
I have a feeling Sega is trying to do this again and pretend nothing happen.
I mean Ian tries anyway possibile to make Shadow return to One he was (the idea of Shadow trying to save Rouge removing his inibitor Rings was botched)
When *that One Guy* left Shadow in Archie was cool, being almost cheerful
But Sega Just want to capitalize on the "i am a Vegeta Clone"
Oh god
@@Mepphy99 and funny thing is that Vegeta isn't even a friendless asshole he's just really pridefu
More of a "Iori Yagami" clone.
Fanbase: Why is there either one human in Eggman and furry NPCs or human NPCs and no furry NPC?
Me: That's a very good question
SEGA: Because there are two worlds; one where humans live and one where furries live
Fanbase: That just raises further questions!
Pretty much sums up the whole thing
I can see the two worlds thing. It can work, if they explained it instead of just saying it on a whim, also if they didn't throw away 15+ years of lore.
@@inkchariot6147 Chaos Control.
I enjoyed the video, but the sound balancing needs work. There are multiple occasions where the music drowns out the commentary, which is problematic. Not not as problematic as the Two Worlds mandate.
Sonic Team throws the baby out with the bathwater worse than any entity I've ever seen.
I decided that I will not even try anymore to argue with Sega's decisions because all of these retcons were made due to fanbase activity anyways. One cannot fight fire with fire, it is futile. But the two world-thing made me emotional because not only are many diffrent ruins(Angel island, Mystic ruins, red mountain, the black arms-ruins and pumpkin hill) clearly connected lorewise and thus exist in the same world, but Green Hill is literally an uncertain distance south of the SA2-map! It's just dumb.
14:46 Also, the basic idea of the amy-thing here is actually still relevant or at least was until after 2008. Amy clearly has...or rather "had" special abilities. She could sense other people being present for instance....Which is also the canonical reason why she hugged Shadow and Silver due to certain semicomplex details, but nomatter how often I break it down, people just gotta say it's nonsense and that is actually where my stance from the first sentence partially comes from. Trying to force a change here in either the fanbase or the series is just bound to make everything worse.
I'd just choose to ignore it. Their products contradict their own claims. So clearly the games are saying one thing, while they're saying the opposite. Sonic had consistent lore from the Genesis to the Adventure era because it was all one history, one flow of events. That's why despite the gameplay being different, I've always considered Sonic Unleashed to be a Pseudo Adventure game.
Ken Penders
The two worlds thing is literally impossible because in SA2, Green Hill (and South Island as a whole) isn't located that far away from City Escape, both on the same world.
But that's an unlockable that doesn't make it canon
@@mediamuncher6982 It's literally on the map, it's canon.
Yes on a map but Greenhills isn't it's own Islands part of South Island. Also again it's just an unlockable for getting everything that doesn't mean it's canon in my opinion. But If you think it is that I respect your opinion.
Also it's an anniversary game so they'regoing to add Green Hills to celebrate.
@@mediamuncher6982 It actually is on its own island
I’ve heard it was
Guardians of the United Nations
Rolls off the tongue better too
Team sonic racing has shadow trying to stop eggman only for sonic to rope him into a racing rivalry
He did the same thing with Jet in Riders ZG
You only do Sonic videos, but it'd be interesting to see a video about the Paper Mario mandates
One of the problems of seeing Sonic in 3D is like... how does he make his mouth slide from one side of his face to the other? It's very distracting how it's like on one side of his face lmao. Like if you were looking at him from the other side, he'd appear to have no mouth from your perspective.
Centre mouth sonic looked really good (06 model looked really good in some parts)
I think the Classic/Modern split makes a bit more sense as a timeline split or multiverse theory or whatever you wanna call it. Modern Sonic never met his future self and the Classic Sonic we see in the newer games is from the post-Generations timeline where he _did_ meet his future self.
Tfw when Tails like mint candies and Amy's Tarot cards get acknowledged
Luckily they confirmed that Sonic’s world is earth and its both humans and anthro’s
We can only hope recent developments such as the Colors shorts and the Sonic movie mean a more rational view on the Sonic franchise is on the horizon
Don't count on it.
Honestly these mandates are hurting the series more then they are helping. Imagine a Sonic Adventure 2 remake but they completely remove the scene where Shadow cries. I would be livid. Oh and I'm in the minority on this but I personally think they could give Sonic a love life. They just don't even try writing Amy that well for it to work...
they allowed these characters to be characters instead of mascots and i think we need more of that
Minecraft is technically the first time modern Mighty and Ray appear in an official sonic related game
Wat
@@dshaynietheawesome just gonna point out the eye color
How the heck does kirby have more coherent lore and consistency and better story decisions then SEGA... SEGA think about that how did we end up in this time line
12:56 Dude I miss that pelican, I forgot he existed
Good news everyone. Two worlds is gone!
Iizuka should just have some kind of *sonic lore master* next to him at all times to keep reminding him of things when doing future sonic games and in interviews.
I bet I'd be pretty good at that
We need our based overlord cybershell
Agreed
This comment aged like fine wine
Isn't tgat lan Flynn's thing ?
If I remember well the two worlds thing came from a kind of bible made in the development of Sonic 1.
Talking about the classic dimension: there is the dimension that goes from Sonic 1 to Forces and the dimension in which Sonic 1, 2, 3&K, CD, those obscure arcade games and Mania happened (probably not in that exact order).
Here's one retcon that i've came up with:
STICK 2 DA ORIGINAL SOURCE MATERIAL 4 ONCE.
Here's one mandate i've had in mind:
LESS CLICHES, MORE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT
I fucking hate these mandates, seriously.
Here's one : let the characters be actual damn characters
Making Shadow edgy is the worst mandate.
Now Sega is saying that Shadow, Rouge, And Omega are not friends and were never a team to begin with. WHYYYYY?!
Must be so embarrassing to not know your own characters
Modern cities were in the first games too, sure as backgrounds. But I like to think people do also live there. Robotnik's a people. I think with the science fiction elements, Sonic and cast can cross worlds/universes given the right circumstance. So human worlds and non human worlds and hybrid worlds can exist. Unless all planets exist in the same world and they just planet hop.
Ya know sometimes I think about South Island from sonic 1 it seems apparent the only inhabitants are sonic and the small animals but there existence of spring yard zone and starlight zone looks like there had been a 20th century style civilization there that had since been abandoned years beforehand. And then even more so the existence of marble zone and labyrinth zone making it look like they were once home to an ancient civilization not too dissimilar from the echidna tribe but there are a lot of depictions of what look like owls
@@dshaynietheawesome Casino Night zone also has a city in it, and it looks like it is active with lights moving along, kinda like traffic. At least in the second game. But yeah Sonic 1 has at least 2 cities and if you count scrap brain, Robotnik had to have built that for somebody.
I hadn't taken note of the owl thing.
@@dshaynietheawesome i don't think that starlight zone and spring yard zone were abandoned, the lights in those buildings are still active.
@@keiser1188 possibly there is still so much we don't know about the islands from the classic games as back then creating level themes was mostly irrelevant from connected stories and anything story related was usually an afterthought so who knows whats really goin on
With all the criticism that SEGA has been receiving lately, they will change course, fix the retcons and apologize to the fans.
Wouldn't change much for the Archie comics since they already rebooted and ended.
@@endamcnabola who even mentioned them? 💀💀
I doubt it, but it would be nice if they just brought back the original lore from the Genesis and Adventure Era, making one connected world and lore again. If we actually do get a reboot officially, I would hope they make it so all games post Sonic Unleashed weren't cannon/wipe 06 from cannon, and just continue off of Unleashed
@@littenfire3563
>Leave the Classic alone. They're fine as is and need no reboot themselves. Just move them over to the rebooted continuity.
>Remake or remaster SA1 and 2 as a single game with an updated Chao system (being able to move Chao to and from the SA1 and 2 Gardens, make it easier to get Hero and Darks in SA1, fixing up Shiny Jewel hybrids, etc.).
>Do something with the GBA games so we can keep Cream, Vanilla, and even the Gizoids around.
>Remake Heroes with different levels for the other 3 teams (though Chaotix's are different enough with their missions)
>Go from there, dropping the bullcrap with aliens as Shadow's backstory, and bring in some of the later games at some point like Unleashed. Also reboot the Rush/Blazeverse continuity with Silver in it so he has an actual reason to team up with Blaze frequently in the spinoffs. I also wouldn't be against rebooting Colors to keep the Wisps around and do the writing and gameplay in that game some justice.
Or just give us more Yakuza in our faces. They're really banking it all on that series.
At least the movies are allowed to break some of these rules
Another thing about the money, in Rouge's level, Security Hall, in the fans, there's dollars with Sonic on them floating around
I personally prefer Classic Sonic (Mania, Gens, Forces, Superstars) being in his own dimension. I really like the idea that after the events of Gens, it caused a split in the timeline. This being what would become Classic Sonic’s dimension.
This allows Sega to make more Classic Sonic stories without having to adhere to the Modern Sonic part of the timeline.
So basically, I wish they tried developing on the idea that Classic Sonic came from another dimension. Instead of making it Modern Sonic’s past. Causing more confusion with how Modern Sonic never brings up Gens, Mania, and Forces in the future when they would be relevant. And it makes it harder to do some story elements with new Classic titles without being inconsistent with Modern entries.
I do think tho, it would be fine seeing many Classic elements currently branded as Classic to come back in the Modern half of the series.
The weirdest thing is seeing Green Hill on the mainland in Sonic Forces
Sonic team for years has tried to have things for sonic be be both ways - world building a setting (half-baked more often than not) BUT also as non-consiquential as Mario's inconsistent settings. These mandates just seem to be veering the series into that second category more.
This irritated me back when I was a huge sonic fanboy around the time Unleashed was out, to the point of killing my interest in the direction of the series since. recently I've been looking into how it's been and good God it's gotten worse.
I'm glad freedom planet exists and the sequel is tentatively around the corner, lord knows we aren't getting mania 2.
Apparently Evening Star Studio (a new team composed of devs who worked on Sonic Mania) is creating their own original 3D platformer. Not sure if it's going to be a Sonic-like game or something else entirely, but either way I'm expecting it'll most likely be good. So that's something to look forward to, at least. Probably for the best too, since this way they won't have upper management breathing down their neck at every turn.
Ah yes
A video made to infuriate me specifically
A lot of these sounds like excuses so when the general player questions something there is always an answer out there (regardless of how dumb it is.)
I also get the vibe that there is an attempt at distancing each game from it's predecessor for some reason.
I feel like this issue could have been resolved had SEGA never changed his design (like how Mario and PAC-Man never radically changed their designs)
PAC-MAN? I guess you didn't know about the Ghostly Adventures...
@@X2011racer Dude, I forgot that was a thing, and for good reason.
@NEED4SPD203 BMW ruclips.net/video/LcErzjdoR94/видео.html
The "Classic" design looks fine in 3D.
As for Shadow, it's not like he couldn't exist in the Classic era, his background just needs reworking.
As for G.U.N., they haven't been a thing for a long time (in the games at least), so it's not like we're loosing too much.
@NEED4SPD203 BMW Look into the "Kirby" games if you think you can't have dark themes with cute designs.
@NEED4SPD203 BMW I'm not fan of Shadow using a motorcycle or realistic firearms in any art style
They’ll probably change the mandates or something.
The only way they will ever do that is if we go to the sonic Twitter account and ask them two.
@@goldenboybenny7511 then go to sonic twitter we will
You gotta go straight to Sega of Japan and give a polite, detailed and well written explanation of what's wrong with the mandates.
@@inkchariot6147 that's so time consuming
@@HYPERxSONICxFANx2012 Therein lies the issue
I'm not so concerned with the lack of a political system in Sonic, because... politics suck.
That's the last bit of crap I'd want in the games.
Political system doesn't mean political agenda. A government existing is an example of a political system, and well... It doesn't make any sense for there not to be one, especially considering the prior games.
Exactly
political system does = agenda lol.
I gotta admit, the Sonic franchise is such a inconsistent rollercoaster of continuity failure and retcons.
Can't we just settle on the basic worldbuilding that's been made on the current era?
What world building in the current era
No, the 2010s was sooooo bad.
there is no world building post 2009 lmao.
I csn understand not wanting to canonize shadow or 06 but people remember adventures positively
both of those still added good world building and development of shadows character.
Obviously Sega,Idw,and Sonic Team as well the writers have some bad communication problems,and aren't doing anything about it.😑😔😐
Every one should should be questing the Mandates, we had a freer multiverse bigger than Spider-Man, Avengers, DC Heroes, and TMNT!
I even just learned about the canceled “Sega Blackbelt” game system.
Mandates exist to keep consistency and quality to a product but when it starts doing the opposite thats when it should be questioned
I just don’t get these retcons and mandates. They are so dumb.
Shadow the Hedgehog has already gone Turbo.
In the recent Twitter takeover for sonic colors ultimate tails was eating a bunch of mints while the other characters react to it.
I have no problem with mandates, cause you know gotta protect your property. I do however have a problem with how many mandates there are and how weird or specific some of them are.
Why's Knuckles afraid of girls? Has his heart been broken too many times?
I mean, he didn't really interact with anyone for a long while in his life time, and when he finally did, it was with rough and tough guys. He's a competer, and not ever girl is into that, so I guess he doesn't know how to act? Idk, I'm reading way to far into this haha.
I didn’t think I’d leave this video understanding Sonic less…
14:40 tbh still has that quirk
Okay yeah, this two world mandate and the origin of Shadow have confused the hell out of me and made me think Sonic X was canon or something
The two worlds theory will make sense after you watch sega scourges video on the topic. It makes sense and it will come all together.
1:52 The torture never happenned in the original script.
Some things are pretty good but the majority like writing, it was a huge mistake and it aging horribly including games like Gens amplify my regret with the last decade, Mania, DS Colors and Lego Dimensions probably the only games that are completely amazing games all the way.
12:54
I disagree, the problem with Unleashed’s humans is that the styles are still clashing. Now you have Japanese Pixar characters next to Japanese American 1930s cartoon like characters. It’s better, but I think it would be better to put humans in the same artstyle as the anthros.
Actually, I think Sonic’s man of the year animation or whatever, and that art of a human kid people thought looked like the official human Sonic, were the closest examples to humans in the Sonic artstyle.
Besides, funny enough, technically with the amount of Sonic continuities with more realistic/realistic leaning human designs. It makes the humans prior to Unleashed ironically more accurate to the rest of the franchise.
Well seeing as the series second main character is a human who has appeared in every single game alongside sonic
the tarot card reading was in sonic battle
This is from Sonic CD, in the Japanese manual.
@@talesxavier5752 both. its also in origins now
Don’t the mandates exist because of the Ken Penders situation?
how do the ken penders situation relate to this doesn't that only involve things regarding his stories and characters?
@@dshaynietheawesome I always thought SEGA made Sonic and friends shells of their former selves to avoid further legal action from Ken Penders. Mainly because Sonic and friends were much more emotional in the Archie comics and how Penders had so much influence on those comics and how much trouble he caused for Archie, SEGA, and EA legally. So SEGA made Sonic and everyone else mostly one dimensional characters in both the comics and the games? I could be wrong tho. This just from what I’ve seen.
@@thephantomgamingbros.6329 that doesn't make sense because the games have nothing to do with the comics what so ever the comics are mostly thier own stories that adapt stuff from the games and games inturn don't take anything from the comics, except for chronicles which was a spinoff RPG made by bioware where they made a evil echidna tribe a concept similar to characters ken penders made for archie which he got offended by
@@dshaynietheawesome Yeah, that’s true. Yeah, I’m probably wrong. Sorry about that.
As to the whole two worlds thing, Sonic X put it best in terms of how Mobius and Earth used to be one in the same planet
Actually the Classic Sonic in Mania and Forces Is from an another Timeline because Generations
Not mentionned or said in the games themselves.
@@ChiefMedicPururu that's because pontaf e graff are bad
@@Mepphy99 Iizuka is too, since he's the one who made those mandates.
@@ChiefMedicPururu iizuka Is Just Crazy
Such mandates could use some alteration just to keep things interesting... maybe every 5 yeas or so.
Thinking about Sonic game lore and cross-game story seems masochistic at this point
So what I gathered from this video, the mandates makes no sense and Sonic team has no idea what they are doing with the franchise.
I hated 06 and boom but the further they go with this bullshit we're gonna need a reboot....
We technically already have. The 2010s marks the Sonic Colors Era/Meta Era of Sonic officially beginning. ALL lore from the Genesis to the Adventure era had basically been retconned and are now only REFERENCED in the modern games as a way to draw in Adventure fans vs staying true to past lore.
13:53 and where your first game takes place (Aseuming South Island can't warp between planets)
Magical islands that teleport between planets I’d say that’s dumb if it weren’t a series with a island that floats in the sky and a miniature planet that teleports over a lake
Im wanting to know if its possible to loosen up the mandates to make him how he is in sa2 heros and 06?.
it is possible we may be seeing changes sooner then we think
I miss the way Shadow used to be too
You'd probably need a corporate shakeup at SEGA.
Imagine if... the Biolizard returns from Sonic Adventure 2 Battle and take revenge on Shadow for some reason?
"Gimmick
Bad"-everysonicNPCfan
Yes im .mocking. "those"
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