It doesn't. The bike won't be charging it much unless your bike has a lot of parasitic power drain when you're not riding. A lithium battery is 14v. Your voltage regulator will not be allowing it to charge. Most of the time riding you're current battery isn't needing charged. The special battery charger for shorai for example is a balance charger. Because the battery is made up of 6 lithium cells. Each one needs to be periodically balanced with the other cells. This prevents one cell ruining the whole battery. If one gets discharged below it's voltage threshold it can never be charged again and it ruins the whole battery. That's the big negative about lithium batteries in all devices. They have a voltage cut off where they cannot recover from.
@@blue03r6 I see 14-14.6 volts while riding on my instrument cluster. That extra .6 volts isn't going to cause the lithium ion battery to burst into flames? I wouldn't think so.
@@blue03r6 I had 2 Shorai chargers, they never worked right, always failed and killed the batteries. The newer Megaboost and Battery TenderLlithium / Lead multi charger works great.
Hmmm... I had a Shorai, they are not very good in the cold. You have to find a way to put a load on them or crank the bike several times to "wake " them up. I switched back to a standard battery.
I think all lithium battery struggle with this problem, I noticed just switching the ignition and waiting a good few minutes before cranking would warm up the battery
@@tntcyclespdx640 The headlight doesn't come on until you turn it over(on my bikes anyway). When I originally got the Shorai, I thought it would great in my snowmobile as well. I contacted Shorai to see what my options were. They recommended that I not use a Li on the sled because of the temperatures it would be operating at. That was several years ago...maybe things have changed.
My shorai battery caught on fire when I was on the freeway. The reason was I didnt have the special regulator rectifier, my bike is a 1981 kz440 so it's old technology. Just a heads up for you classic bike riders.
Rick's Motorsport Electrics 1-800-521-0277 sells Li-Ion friendly rectifiers/regulators for vintage bikes. I haven't tried their products, but it can't hurt to give Rick, the owner, a call about your bike, his rec/reg and a Lithium-Ion or a Lithium Iron Phosphate battery.
Still pretty cold in the mornings here in Norway, I'll admit trying to wake up the lithium battery is more challenging than I expected. Even though the outside temp is 7-10 celsius, the bike can still be at 2celsius inside the garage from the night being colder. And the trick about "leaving your lights on for 2 minutes" is worthless when you got led lights all around. Still trying to figure it out, but the best solution so far is to try crank it a few times, then wait 2 minutes with the lights on. I have to check the battery is it shows 3 dots instead of 1, then I know it will start. This is my first spring with a lithium battery, worked fine all last summer/autumn.
I ride daily year round, including below freezing temperatures. I gave my best chance for lead acid and lithium batteries. I ended up switching back to lead acid. Lithium works well in warm weather, but is easy to damage with a wrong charger, falls 'asleep' in cold weather when you least expect it (left garage fully charged), and is expensive to replace. Loved it when it worked and hated it when it didn't. Lead acid seems to be more predictable and straight forward.
You have to be carefull when charging Li-ion batteries. 'Never' charge a Li-ion battery when the ambient air temperature is below 0°C (32°F). Charging a Li-ion below the freezing point will Kill it.
@@Ducati_Dude The battery doesn't actually go to sleep. It just doesn't have the chranking amps when the temperature is super low. But you can easily fix that problem by turning your bike on so the head light is on and after 30 seconds you have full cranking amps again. The battery just needs to be warmed up.
No thanks, the battery’s are junk and cost too munch, If you have to jumpstart that high dollar dry battery’s, make sure the person car is shutdown or could blow that dam thing up and a trip to the ER and 24 hours bandaged up to stop doing damage to your eyesight, Walmart the best battery for the buck, if it should die, any Walmart will give you a new battery up to 90 days. Not on the side of the road with some guy 150 miles away telling me to bring her in and see what he might be able to do for me while I’m setting on the side of the road looking like a madman stranded. I enjoy ridding not hopping for 5 pounds less, Hell 150 200 pounds the bike should carry that 5 pounds like a peanut, If 5 pounds makes a big difference to you, Your bike is too small
You are crazy to be using a dangerous Shorai! They have no protective circuity built in to prevent overcharging or over discharging, swelling up, exploding and catching fire! If you don't believe it just Google "Shorai battery fail" click Images and you will find all sorts of pics of burned up batteries!
I called BS I’m the cold weather performance. I ride a sport bike all the way to -5°. The lithium battery cannot handle that. I’ve tested enough to know.
Hi.. If the bike electrical system can charge both types, why do Li need dedicated chargers ? Anything which gives 12ish volts , should be good enough right ?
You don't need special chargers if you have a cheap charger. The problem is the advanced chargers that try to Kickstart a dead lead acid battery may fry your lithium
Modern charger do dissulfate your lead battery...this means high voltage impulse...this will fry your li-ion battery for sure So of course you need a special charger
My experience is the Shorai sizing tables recommend a battery that is much smaller than the compartment...and cannot keep up with the drain to run the electrics for more than 10 days (BMW R1200RT) before not cranking the starter. I had to buy and attach the expensive Shorai trickle charger on it after every ride. The stock lead acid would go for a couple months before it would not crank. I would use Shorai’s sizing table as a minimum size/capacity and move up from there while dimensions still fit bike.
Yikes. If a bike has that much phantom drain, I'd almost consider that a bike issue. What all is it doing when it's off other than keeping the clock set? Does it have aftermarket electrical stuff connected to it? I have heard that Shorai sizes essentially by CCA equivalence rather than capacity. Which is fine for normal use IMO.
Again, the original lead acid would last 2 months, Shorai replacement 10 days. Same bike, no more add-ons. Yes, the battery is sized for minimum CCA when fully charged, 13.3V. A 10 day drain apparently discharges this small battery to under 13V and will engage starter solenoid but not crank for a successful start. It could be problematic battery. I have not measured the drain when bike is off. A voltmeter I monitor indicates trickle charger is coming on at least once per day at 13.1V, charging up to 13.3V.
Some lithium batteries claim to have built-in discharge/overcharge protection. I'm guessing that they are the expensive ones. Information on that feature would have been useful.
All the new lithium "Battery tender" brand batteries have that feature now. It didn't change the price much. It is very simple. If you ever turn on your key and nothing happens, it is in protection mode. Hook up a charger and hit the reset button and it will re-activate and recharge. Very simple.
Lithium-Iron-Phosphate batteries need a BMS-battery management system, a small circuit board that has those capabilities. You can buy overthecounter or build. Do a YT search.
Instead of standing there waving a battery around, why don't you do something like a load test? Many of these batteries cannot produce their advertised cranking amperage.
I've got a lithium on a custom build, it's marginal as soon as temp gets below 55*. But I don't have room for an AGM with enough capacity. AGM is the way to go if you have space, cold doesn't drag them down like a lithium and the weight will not be noticed by the average rider. Yes he talks about the cold affecting lithium less, but he doesn't mention they need to be "warmed up" to give the cranking power. So crank the bike 10 seconds, leave lights on and wait a minute, then you might be able to start.
I already own several smart trickle chargers but are more then 5 years old so they're meant for lead acid only. Not gonna spend anymore money to get a charger just for lithium. My current bikes lead acid battery is over 4 years old and is only now beginning to show signs of age. Ride almost daily year round.
Had Lithium, switched back to Lead acid. Main disatwantage he did not mention, low capacity and once the voltage drops, ignition and fuel injection ain't working any more. I always managed to push and start a bike with low voltage lead battery. It never worked with Lithium. Not worth the trouble.
When you say the fuel injection didn't work, are you saying that the low voltage could cause the engine to stop working correctly because I've been having issues with the bike cutting out.
why should i spend $200 on a battery that will last me about 5 years when i can buy a $30 walmart battery that lasts me 3 years (or more, mines been fine for 3 years so far)
I bought 3 Walmart batteries. The first lasted 8 years. The next 2 lasted a year and a half. Walmart is a good place to get a car battery with a long warranty. I go to a motorcycle shop and buy the Yuasa brand acid glass mat battery, only a little more than at Walmart and they last longer most of the time, and are what Japanese bikes were designed to use.
Buying a lithium battery was the biggest mistake I made. I have hated this battery ever since I got it a little over 2 years ago. I really tried to give it another chance after upgrading my voltage regulator. Now I am coming to my senses and plan to replace it ASAP with an AGM battery.
I live in hot temp. & my bike got two built in computer always run battery down in one week I charges battery every 3 days! I purchased lithium battery but died out in 3 days! So I went back lead acid battery because last longer then Lithium battery!
Shorai, doesn't even come with a battery management system (BMS)! You drain lithium down and it's done, it's paperweight! I have antigravity batteries with the Restart feature and BMS and it's running strong from 2015 in my Hypermotard 821! Whereas I killed 2 shorai in my gsxr600 before moving to Antigravity Batteries! Mc Garage had well-researched stuff before!
You should avoid using a lithium battery below 0 degrees Celsius. It might start well but the charge it receives after starting the bike kills it more easily. Even below 10 degrees Celsius you want to make sure that the battery has a good charge as to avoid excessive charging by the bike. In short -- good for race bikes and for warm climates, but definitely not for adventure bikes that are used in all temp ranges.
TO EVERYONE IN RUclips LAND If I need a special lithium battery charger to charge a lithium motorcycle battery THEN WHY AM I NOT CHANGING THE ALTERNATOR AND VOLTAGE REGULATOR ON MY BIKE (THAY ARE FOR LED ACID )
the BMS ( Battery Management System ) in the lithium battery dose this for us !!! please do not give out False info . the battery is made at the factory as a direct replacement (hens the name "motorcycle" battery) for a led acid battery AND "DOSE NOT REQURE A special CHARGER" !!
Good question. I know that lithium batteries have different numbers of cells than lead acid batteries, so the voltage readings are different per cell. This can lead to bad readings on trickle charger. But I don’t understand why the motorcycles charging system would work any differently... 🤷🏻♂️
You can charge a lithium battery with a normal charger, unless the charger has a desulfation function, which most chargers have nowadays. It's used for lead batterys and it ups the voltage and the amps of the charge for a short time to get rid of the sulfate, that can built up in lead batterys. This desulfation process can kill a lithium battery because most of them don't have any mechanisms to protect against overcharging. A lithium charger or a charger with a lithium charging program, simply leaves out this desulfation process.
I have had two Shorai’s in my BMW during the last 8 years. The first one died after one year and was replaced under warranty. The second is still going, but I would not buy another Shorai. Their BMS01 character is faulty and is what killed my original battery (it failed to come back on after a winter power outage and let the battery deep discharge which killed it). It also will not start my bike at temps below 40 degrees on the first try. You have to turn the lights on and wait for a minute or two for the battery to warm up enough to crank the bike fast enough to start it. Yes, they are lighter, but they also are much smaller and don’t fit the bike’s battery holder without a bunch of foam spacers. No reason Shorai could not have made the battery case the same size as the OEM batteries and just leave on the inside. And the terminals on the Shorai are quite flimsy. When my current Shorai dies, it is back to AGM for me. www.fullspectrumpower.com/blogs/full-spectrum-news/10662405-lithium-batteries-in-cold-weather
Justin Dawes That is why cold weather is a disadvantage for LiFePO4 batteries. However, you can wave to your friends as they ride away as you wait for your battery to warm up enough to start your bike. And 30 seconds wasn’t even close to enough for my LT after temps down to 29 overnight on my way to Alaska. It took almost 3 minutes before I could get enough cranking speed to start the bike. I was getting ready to try to find someone to give me a jump. I will not buy another lithium battery until they make the cases fit the OEM battery holders and they find a way to provide instant cold starts as with lead acid batteries. Shorai says 4-5 minutes at 0 and that seems about right as it took me 3 minutes when in the upper 20s. And it really isn’t “waking” up the battery, it is warming it up. So, just hitting the starter once and waiting will do nothing. You need continuous current draw from the lights to warm it up. It is a real PITA in cold weather. shoraipower.com/faq
lithium battery can cause explodes, like some of lithoum batteries on vapes and cellphones, but batteries from vehicles is judt like newly endorsment to buy and used it in a motorcylce even in cars thats is why for me, i just try mo took a yeard and found out if many peoples is usomg it and i need them some news about hows the performance of the battery
I've experienced a much longer battery life from a lithium iron battery over lead acid. At 7 years it was still working well but then began to have problems and bought a new lead acid battery only to find that the problem I was having may have only been a loose ground from the battery.
What doesn't make sense to me is the bike has a charging system designed for lead acid battery but you need a "special" tender to maintain the Li battery. What?
Why is it no one ever talks about the charging system of the bike,especially when the bike came with a lead acid battery,will it properly charge a Lithium battery ? NO
If you have to charge the lithium with a specific charger, how can your bikes charging system safely charge a lithium battery when it's set up to charge lead acid?
Like many others who have commented, I too have had cold start problems with my Shorai. I would not recommend Lithium batteries for bikes that will see temps below 40F such as Adventure and Touring bikes.
My Tusk Lithium Pro battery (lithium iron phosphate) sucks in the cold weather. Not sure what the talk about cold weather performance is about. I see other comments about that being an issue. This is my first LiFePO4 battery in this bike and I never had that issue before.
Some lithium batteries, lithium iron phosphate battery manufacturers and distributors advertise that start-up at low temperatures is superior to conventional lead-acid batteries, but this is a clear lie. The LiFePO4 battery charger states that charging or discharging a LiFePO4 battery at a temperature below 0 degrees Celsius can cause permanent damage to the cell. In fact, you can feel the cranking is very slow when it's below 10 degrees Celsius.
For me the vig seller was the storage drop my vikes at my parents since i dot heve anywhere where i can pwrk it where i live currently and i didnt want to have to charge up every time i get down their to ride
All true. Good video, but... lithium batteries can be extremely dangerous. If they catch fire, for example if a conventional charger is used, you can't stop the fire from burning until all the lithium is exhausted. Fire extinguishers do not work. You just gotta wait until they finish burning. This is why most manufacturers tend to use conventional batteries over lithium, even on some high end products. Just something to think about.
What about push starting if you leave your ignition on and drain the battery? Old batteries start right up with a push while a lithium requires a jump. Am I wrong?
Just made the switch over Christmas. Went from 130cca to 190cca for ~$100 (inc taxes - don’t live in USA). Weight saving was 2.4kg, and after nearly 1 month and 1,300km’s I couldn’t fault it - it’s just been a battery. No need to buy a new charger as the one I bought 4 years ago already supported lithium Apparently, and I ride enough to rarely need to tender. Only downside I could find is that it was so much smaller that it was loose. To fix I had to rotate it 90 degrees and re-run my battery terminal leads, meaningit took 20 mins to install instead of 10. Cost was easy to justify as in bike terms $100 isn’t much really, and they last far, far longer than lead acid and need less (almost no) TLC
But what about the motorcycle charge circuit? Most bikes' rectifier / regulator is not a sophisticated design and is intended to charge Lead acid batteries. So if I want to change to a Lithium bike battery, that will mean an upgrade to the bike's electronic charging circuit as well, yes?
What if I do not have the possibility to charge my battery ? (no electricity in garage) ... can I remove the battery (and how.. plus and minus) and charge it in my apartment safely?
You should have mentioned the dangers of Lithium batteries below freezing temperatures. When it gets below freezing on the battery you really should warm the battery up before you start and run the bike, or you could cause the battery to burst into flames and resemble a Samsung Note 7.
Chris Rolofson with Lithium battery construction of the cells need a service voltage to stay healthy. If you run the battery below this service voltage the battery is severely compromised. storage capacity and years of service are compromised. Even to the point if the service voltage is so low the battery will not charge no matter how new it is. Generally Regular batteries can be run down and recharged. I don’t have any luck with lithium batteries at cold temps. I have to leave the bike turned on for a minute or so before starting it to warm the battery up. I switched back to regular because I live in cold climates.
Just be careful if your bikes voltage regulator malfunctions and starts sending over 14.6v to the lithium battery. You could end up with a hot melting fire starter imbedded in the heart of your bike like I had.
@@PercyJackson93 yes luckily it was easy to get to under the seat. Got it out just in time to then watch it flame and melt before my eyes on the side of the road!
lithium Ion wants to be at a higher voltage (at full state of charge) than lead acid type so some bikes wont charge them fully also the have different charge cycles. My bike could never charge a Lithium ion battery to full, I would need to top it off with a charger
One thing the video didn't cover, when cranking the motorcycle battery from a cold start, the battery needs to be warmed up as alot of people are saying, but there are problems. 1. Most modern motorcycles headlights don't come on until you crank the starter, which directly counterfeits the point of warming up the battery with the headlight on. 2. Accessories tend to drain the battery and they warm up the battery slower. 3. Some people recommends fast pulses of crank to "wake up" the battery, then again it counterfeits the point of warming up the battery before the crank. Might be a very great idea to make a video or include in the video the several ways to warm up the lithium battery as most riders tend to stay away from it due to this problem ( i know i did and it costed me 2 lithium batts before i finally gave up )
When you talk about charger are you talking trickle? All motor vehicles I know of have an alternator and voltage regulator. After starting charging goes to 14.4vdc and when the battery is fully charged goes down to 13.8 to keep the battery balanced. I am considering a lithium motorcycle battery for my Nissan Leaf. My only concern is if the lithium battery can take the constant charging that a car system throws at it. My lead battery cost 200 dollars and after a few cycles only has 20ah in real capacity even though it is considered a 50ah. Lithium promises more capacity per dollar and longer life. The EV doesn't need cranking power just 12v to start the vehicle. The DC/DC converter can run all electrical functions of the car.
Lithium batteries and lithium iron phosphate batteries have significant advantages in weight and volume. Its weight is one-third and its volume is one-third that of the Agm battery. Charging speed is also very fast when driving. Three and a half years have passed since this video was uploaded. Despite the above advantages, low-temperature startability is very low compared to the lead-acid battery. Charging a lithium iron phosphate battery at a temperature below 0°C, even if a low temperature start is successful, causes cell damage. The bottom line is that if the area you live in doesn't go below 10 degrees Celsius, it's worth considering. If not, I think we should think carefully. Not only is the reliability still low, but the price is at least two to three times more expensive.Lithium batteries and lithium iron phosphate batteries have significant advantages in weight and volume. Its weight is one-third and its volume is one-third that of the Agm battery. Charging speed is also very fast when driving. Three and a half years have passed since this video was uploaded. Despite the above advantages, low-temperature startability is very low compared to the lead-acid battery. Charging a lithium iron phosphate battery at a temperature below 0°C, even if a low temperature start is successful, causes cell damage. The bottom line is that if the area you live in doesn't go below 10 degrees Celsius, it's worth considering. If not, I think we should think carefully. Not only is the reliability still low, but the price is at least two to three times more expensive.
I have a 2015 Honda CBR600RR, I was in the market for a new battery and decided to go with the duraboost brand. However its constantly blowing fuses for my lights and speedometer as soon as I switch it on. Any ideas as to how to fix the issues?
@@AbnormalWrench Well I could go research the whole thing on Google. Point being, if you're going to make a video comparison, it'd be nice to compare what the actual costs involved are. I got a PHd in learning how saving 5 lbs is going to make me Rossi. Be nice to know what it's gonna cost me to be so svelte.
I have cold start issues below 50F on the larger street bikes. The DRZ400E with street lights was the exception, fired right up despite being stored outdoors. I used a brand new Deltran Lithium mode trickle charger that once killed my brand new Shorai. I don't know if the charger was defective or battery, but why take a chance. Now, I use just the regular charger mode if i need to trickle charge, it's never killed a battery. Most frustrating with the Shorai is cold weather starts. I will turn the key over, turn on headlights to high, turn on hazards and wait a couple of minutes before cranking. Press start and if it doesn't turn over after 5 seconds, I turn the ignition off and then back on and repeat the above. Below 50F, I have to repeat 3 times. It is a little nerve racking because I have been conditioned such that a weak crank means, your battery is not going to get better by itself, but the lithium shorai does. I don't know about other brands, but I should try. Parts unlimited batteries are about 25% cheaper.
Ya sure they perform better in colder temperatures? Don't you have to warm them up with your high beam on for a few minutes first when temps are really low?
So I have a question. My bike has a place for a battery but dosen't require it (only has a kick start, no electric start) so should I use a battery or dose it not matter? Its a moped.
Don't disconnect your battery when storing, hook up a battery tender. They are very cheap and easy to hook up and will drastically increase the life of your batteries.
If they go pop though, they are horrific to clean up chemicals inside are acrid and vomit inducing. I had one go in my bike and it was a nightmare to sort out. Had to wear a filter mask and scrub clean the battery tray.... swapped back to lead acid and it’s been solid as a rock...
Can you make a video on the different Quick shifters and the different ways to tune them! (in the power commander setting, how long it cuts the fuel ex...)
Great review great comparison . I'm sticking with lead for my application. It does make sense on that ADV. I'm sure its probably noticeable. Thanks guys:))
@@AbnormalWrench Yeah that was sort of implied, but my question is why a lithium battery need a different charger *outside* the bike, but *inside* a bike designed for lead acid it is perfectly fine? Sounds like the marketing branch thought that not only they can sell us a very expensive battery we don't really need (and doesn't work that well in real world), but also make us think we need completely new tools.
@@hawgietonight If you use the wrong charger, at best you greatly reduce the life of your Lithium battery, at worst, it catches on fire and burns your house down. No, it isn't a marketing gimmick.
Hi @@AbnormalWrench, You partly answered his question, I'm also interested in the answer. Here I'll ask this part differently : Why would a lithium battery need a "special" (external) charger if the charging system in the bike originally made for a lead acid one should work fine ?
@@hawgietonight @Abnormal Wrench Ok, I think I got the answer from another comment : Chris#55 : You can charge a lithium battery with a normal charger, unless the charger has a desulfation function, which most chargers have nowadays. It's used for lead batterys and it ups the voltage and the amps of the charge for a short time to get rid of the sulfate, that can built up in lead batterys. This desulfation process can kill a lithium battery because most of them don't have any mechanisms to protect against overcharging. A lithium charger or a charger with a lithium charging program, simply leaves out this desulfation process.
To prevent the battery dropping below its minimum voltage. Yes it has a low inherent drain BUT if you have a parasitic drain like a short then bye bye expensive battery and hello doorstop.
If I need a special charger for the lithium battery, then how does the motorcycle's charging system adapt?
Good question... 🤷♂️
You don't need a special charger. You just need a cheap one that doesn't have special features to boost a lead acid back into life
It doesn't. The bike won't be charging it much unless your bike has a lot of parasitic power drain when you're not riding. A lithium battery is 14v. Your voltage regulator will not be allowing it to charge. Most of the time riding you're current battery isn't needing charged. The special battery charger for shorai for example is a balance charger. Because the battery is made up of 6 lithium cells. Each one needs to be periodically balanced with the other cells. This prevents one cell ruining the whole battery. If one gets discharged below it's voltage threshold it can never be charged again and it ruins the whole battery. That's the big negative about lithium batteries in all devices. They have a voltage cut off where they cannot recover from.
@@blue03r6 I see 14-14.6 volts while riding on my instrument cluster. That extra .6 volts isn't going to cause the lithium ion battery to burst into flames? I wouldn't think so.
@@blue03r6 I had 2 Shorai chargers, they never worked right, always failed and killed the batteries. The newer Megaboost and Battery TenderLlithium / Lead multi charger works great.
Hmmm... I had a Shorai, they are not very good in the cold. You have to find a way to put a load on them or crank the bike several times to "wake " them up. I switched back to a standard battery.
The trick is to turn on a headlight for 5 minutes befor trying to turn it over.
I think all lithium battery struggle with this problem, I noticed just switching the ignition and waiting a good few minutes before cranking would warm up the battery
@@tntcyclespdx640 The headlight doesn't come on until you turn it over(on my bikes anyway). When I originally got the Shorai, I thought it would great in my snowmobile as well. I contacted Shorai to see what my options were. They recommended that I not use a Li on the sled because of the temperatures it would be operating at. That was several years ago...maybe things have changed.
Same experience on mine. I turn my heated grips on for 2 minutes to 100%, then crank it up.
so you said the shorai is not good for cold weather i got yuasa but is dead i think to buy shorai what you say??
My shorai battery caught on fire when I was on the freeway. The reason was I didnt have the special regulator rectifier, my bike is a 1981 kz440 so it's old technology. Just a heads up for you classic bike riders.
Good info thanks for sharing, I have an 82 kz440 and I ended up with a lead acid battery due to a worry this would happen
Rick's Motorsport Electrics 1-800-521-0277 sells Li-Ion friendly rectifiers/regulators for vintage bikes. I haven't tried their products, but it can't hurt to give Rick, the owner, a call about your bike, his rec/reg and a Lithium-Ion or a Lithium Iron Phosphate battery.
Thank you so much.
You don't need anything special, just a battery that won't explode like the Shorai!
Still pretty cold in the mornings here in Norway, I'll admit trying to wake up the lithium battery is more challenging than I expected. Even though the outside temp is 7-10 celsius, the bike can still be at 2celsius inside the garage from the night being colder. And the trick about "leaving your lights on for 2 minutes" is worthless when you got led lights all around. Still trying to figure it out, but the best solution so far is to try crank it a few times, then wait 2 minutes with the lights on. I have to check the battery is it shows 3 dots instead of 1, then I know it will start. This is my first spring with a lithium battery, worked fine all last summer/autumn.
I ride daily year round, including below freezing temperatures. I gave my best chance for lead acid and lithium batteries. I ended up switching back to lead acid. Lithium works well in warm weather, but is easy to damage with a wrong charger, falls 'asleep' in cold weather when you least expect it (left garage fully charged), and is expensive to replace. Loved it when it worked and hated it when it didn't. Lead acid seems to be more predictable and straight forward.
You have to be carefull when charging Li-ion batteries. 'Never' charge a Li-ion battery when the ambient air temperature is below 0°C (32°F). Charging a Li-ion below the freezing point will Kill it.
@@Ducati_Dude hard lesson learned
Thanks for that I drive my bike year round in the UK, I'll be sticking with the old LA.
Same.
@@Ducati_Dude The battery doesn't actually go to sleep. It just doesn't have the chranking amps when the temperature is super low. But you can easily fix that problem by turning your bike on so the head light is on and after 30 seconds you have full cranking amps again. The battery just needs to be warmed up.
No thanks, the battery’s are junk and cost too munch, If you have to jumpstart that high dollar dry battery’s, make sure the person car is shutdown or could blow that dam thing up and a trip to the ER and 24 hours bandaged up to stop doing damage to your eyesight, Walmart the best battery for the buck, if it should die, any Walmart will give you a new battery up to 90 days. Not on the side of the road with some guy 150 miles away telling me to bring her in and see what he might be able to do for me while I’m setting on the side of the road looking like a madman stranded. I enjoy ridding not hopping for 5 pounds less, Hell 150 200 pounds the bike should carry that 5 pounds like a peanut, If 5 pounds makes a big difference to you, Your bike is too small
You are crazy to be using a dangerous Shorai! They have no protective circuity built in to prevent overcharging or over discharging, swelling up, exploding and catching fire! If you don't believe it just Google "Shorai battery fail" click Images and you will find all sorts of pics of burned up batteries!
I called BS I’m the cold weather performance. I ride a sport bike all the way to -5°. The lithium battery cannot handle that. I’ve tested enough to know.
Hi..
If the bike electrical system can charge both types, why do Li need dedicated chargers ?
Anything which gives 12ish volts , should be good enough right ?
You don't need special chargers if you have a cheap charger. The problem is the advanced chargers that try to Kickstart a dead lead acid battery may fry your lithium
Modern charger do dissulfate your lead battery...this means high voltage impulse...this will fry your li-ion battery for sure
So of course you need a special charger
My experience is the Shorai sizing tables recommend a battery that is much smaller than the compartment...and cannot keep up with the drain to run the electrics for more than 10 days (BMW R1200RT) before not cranking the starter. I had to buy and attach the expensive Shorai trickle charger on it after every ride. The stock lead acid would go for a couple months before it would not crank. I would use Shorai’s sizing table as a minimum size/capacity and move up from there while dimensions still fit bike.
Yikes. If a bike has that much phantom drain, I'd almost consider that a bike issue. What all is it doing when it's off other than keeping the clock set? Does it have aftermarket electrical stuff connected to it? I have heard that Shorai sizes essentially by CCA equivalence rather than capacity. Which is fine for normal use IMO.
Again, the original lead acid would last 2 months, Shorai replacement 10 days. Same bike, no more add-ons. Yes, the battery is sized for minimum CCA when fully charged, 13.3V. A 10 day drain apparently discharges this small battery to under 13V and will engage starter solenoid but not crank for a successful start. It could be problematic battery. I have not measured the drain when bike is off. A voltmeter I monitor indicates trickle charger is coming on at least once per day at 13.1V, charging up to 13.3V.
Your BMW if its like my r1100, does not put out a high enough voltage. your riding it is not charging it to full
Some lithium batteries claim to have built-in discharge/overcharge protection. I'm guessing that they are the expensive ones. Information on that feature would have been useful.
All the new lithium "Battery tender" brand batteries have that feature now. It didn't change the price much. It is very simple. If you ever turn on your key and nothing happens, it is in protection mode. Hook up a charger and hit the reset button and it will re-activate and recharge. Very simple.
@@AbnormalWrench I opened a Shorai Battery and it had no circuits to protect anything
Lithium-Iron-Phosphate batteries need a BMS-battery management system, a small circuit board that has those capabilities. You can buy overthecounter or build.
Do a YT search.
Will my trickle charger work for this?
Instead of standing there waving a battery around, why don't you do something like a load test? Many of these batteries cannot produce their advertised cranking amperage.
I've got a lithium on a custom build, it's marginal as soon as temp gets below 55*. But I don't have room for an AGM with enough capacity. AGM is the way to go if you have space, cold doesn't drag them down like a lithium and the weight will not be noticed by the average rider.
Yes he talks about the cold affecting lithium less, but he doesn't mention they need to be "warmed up" to give the cranking power. So crank the bike 10 seconds, leave lights on and wait a minute, then you might be able to start.
Nice video. Them rapper hands working great too.
I already own several smart trickle chargers but are more then 5 years old so they're meant for lead acid only. Not gonna spend anymore money to get a charger just for lithium. My current bikes lead acid battery is over 4 years old and is only now beginning to show signs of age. Ride almost daily year round.
Had Lithium, switched back to Lead acid. Main disatwantage he did not mention, low capacity and once the voltage drops, ignition and fuel injection ain't working any more. I always managed to push and start a bike with low voltage lead battery. It never worked with Lithium. Not worth the trouble.
When you say the fuel injection didn't work, are you saying that the low voltage could cause the engine to stop working correctly because I've been having issues with the bike cutting out.
lithium sucks in winter, won't use one again.
Bros carrying 30 extra pounds. Who cares about the battery weight
😂😂
why should i spend $200 on a battery that will last me about 5 years when i can buy a $30 walmart battery that lasts me 3 years (or more, mines been fine for 3 years so far)
You could save $30 and just bump start it every time. Think how many extra Happy Meals you could buy!
I bought 3 Walmart batteries. The first lasted 8 years. The next 2 lasted a year and a half. Walmart is a good place to get a car battery with a long warranty. I go to a motorcycle shop and buy the Yuasa brand acid glass mat battery, only a little more than at Walmart and they last longer most of the time, and are what Japanese bikes were designed to use.
Buying a lithium battery was the biggest mistake I made. I have hated this battery ever since I got it a little over 2 years ago. I really tried to give it another chance after upgrading my voltage regulator. Now I am coming to my senses and plan to replace it ASAP with an AGM battery.
Why was it a mistake? I'm fed up of replacing mine every few months because it's dropped a few volts buy lithium won't be an issue
I live in hot temp. & my bike got two built in computer always run battery down in one week I charges battery every 3 days! I purchased lithium battery but died out in 3 days! So I went back lead acid battery because last longer then Lithium battery!
Shorai, doesn't even come with a battery management system (BMS)! You drain lithium down and it's done, it's paperweight! I have antigravity batteries with the Restart feature and BMS and it's running strong from 2015 in my Hypermotard 821! Whereas I killed 2 shorai in my gsxr600 before moving to Antigravity Batteries! Mc Garage had well-researched stuff before!
How can you need a different battery charger but not have to modify the charging system of the bike itself?
You should avoid using a lithium battery below 0 degrees Celsius. It might start well but the charge it receives after starting the bike kills it more easily. Even below 10 degrees Celsius you want to make sure that the battery has a good charge as to avoid excessive charging by the bike. In short -- good for race bikes and for warm climates, but definitely not for adventure bikes that are used in all temp ranges.
TO EVERYONE IN RUclips LAND
If I need a special lithium battery charger to charge a lithium motorcycle battery
THEN WHY AM I NOT CHANGING THE ALTERNATOR AND VOLTAGE REGULATOR ON MY BIKE (THAY ARE FOR LED ACID )
the BMS ( Battery Management System ) in the lithium battery dose this for us !!!
please do not give out False info . the battery is made at the factory as a direct replacement (hens the name "motorcycle" battery) for a led acid battery
AND "DOSE NOT REQURE A special CHARGER" !!
Why are the home chargers different when the bike charges both types equally or do I have to do some mod to my bike to use lithium battery?
Good question. I know that lithium batteries have different numbers of cells than lead acid batteries, so the voltage readings are different per cell. This can lead to bad readings on trickle charger. But I don’t understand why the motorcycles charging system would work any differently... 🤷🏻♂️
You can charge a lithium battery with a normal charger, unless the charger has a desulfation function, which most chargers have nowadays. It's used for lead batterys and it ups the voltage and the amps of the charge for a short time to get rid of the sulfate, that can built up in lead batterys. This desulfation process can kill a lithium battery because most of them don't have any mechanisms to protect against overcharging.
A lithium charger or a charger with a lithium charging program, simply leaves out this desulfation process.
I have had two Shorai’s in my BMW during the last 8 years. The first one died after one year and was replaced under warranty. The second is still going, but I would not buy another Shorai. Their BMS01 character is faulty and is what killed my original battery (it failed to come back on after a winter power outage and let the battery deep discharge which killed it). It also will not start my bike at temps below 40 degrees on the first try. You have to turn the lights on and wait for a minute or two for the battery to warm up enough to crank the bike fast enough to start it. Yes, they are lighter, but they also are much smaller and don’t fit the bike’s battery holder without a bunch of foam spacers. No reason Shorai could not have made the battery case the same size as the OEM batteries and just leave on the inside. And the terminals on the Shorai are quite flimsy. When my current Shorai dies, it is back to AGM for me.
www.fullspectrumpower.com/blogs/full-spectrum-news/10662405-lithium-batteries-in-cold-weather
Justin Dawes That is why cold weather is a disadvantage for LiFePO4 batteries. However, you can wave to your friends as they ride away as you wait for your battery to warm up enough to start your bike. And 30 seconds wasn’t even close to enough for my LT after temps down to 29 overnight on my way to Alaska. It took almost 3 minutes before I could get enough cranking speed to start the bike. I was getting ready to try to find someone to give me a jump. I will not buy another lithium battery until they make the cases fit the OEM battery holders and they find a way to provide instant cold starts as with lead acid batteries.
Shorai says 4-5 minutes at 0 and that seems about right as it took me 3 minutes when in the upper 20s. And it really isn’t “waking” up the battery, it is warming it up. So, just hitting the starter once and waiting will do nothing. You need continuous current draw from the lights to warm it up. It is a real PITA in cold weather. shoraipower.com/faq
lithium battery can cause explodes, like some of lithoum batteries on vapes and cellphones, but batteries from vehicles is judt like newly endorsment to buy and used it in a motorcylce even in cars thats is why for me, i just try mo took a yeard and found out if many peoples is usomg it and i need them some news about hows the performance of the battery
What is the life expectancy from a battery, dose the lithium battery has a longer life?
I've experienced a much longer battery life from a lithium iron battery over lead acid. At 7 years it was still working well but then began to have problems and bought a new lead acid battery only to find that the problem I was having may have only been a loose ground from the battery.
What doesn't make sense to me is the bike has a charging system designed for lead acid battery but you need a "special" tender to maintain the Li battery. What?
Why is it no one ever talks about the charging system of the bike,especially when the bike came with a lead acid battery,will it properly charge a Lithium battery ? NO
If you have to charge the lithium with a specific charger, how can your bikes charging system safely charge a lithium battery when it's set up to charge lead acid?
So will the motorcycle charge the lithium ion battery when you’re riding? Or does it take something special?
Like many others who have commented, I too have had cold start problems with my Shorai. I would not recommend Lithium batteries for bikes that will see temps below 40F such as Adventure and Touring bikes.
How well will a lithium battery work in my T51b?
My Tusk Lithium Pro battery (lithium iron phosphate) sucks in the cold weather. Not sure what the talk about cold weather performance is about. I see other comments about that being an issue. This is my first LiFePO4 battery in this bike and I never had that issue before.
Some lithium batteries, lithium iron phosphate battery manufacturers and distributors advertise that start-up at low temperatures is superior to conventional lead-acid batteries, but this is a clear lie. The LiFePO4 battery charger states that charging or discharging a LiFePO4 battery at a temperature below 0 degrees Celsius can cause permanent damage to the cell. In fact, you can feel the cranking is very slow when it's below 10 degrees Celsius.
Doesn't work on all bikes My 2020 Harley Street Glde can NOT use it, NOT compatible with electric system.
For me the vig seller was the storage drop my vikes at my parents since i dot heve anywhere where i can pwrk it where i live currently and i didnt want to have to charge up every time i get down their to ride
All true. Good video, but... lithium batteries can be extremely dangerous. If they catch fire, for example if a conventional charger is used, you can't stop the fire from burning until all the lithium is exhausted. Fire extinguishers do not work. You just gotta wait until they finish burning. This is why most manufacturers tend to use conventional batteries over lithium, even on some high end products. Just something to think about.
What about push starting if you leave your ignition on and drain the battery? Old batteries start right up with a push while a lithium requires a jump. Am I wrong?
Just made the switch over Christmas.
Went from 130cca to 190cca for ~$100 (inc taxes - don’t live in USA).
Weight saving was 2.4kg, and after nearly 1 month and 1,300km’s I couldn’t fault it - it’s just been a battery. No need to buy a new charger as the one I bought 4 years ago already supported lithium Apparently, and I ride enough to rarely need to tender.
Only downside I could find is that it was so much smaller that it was loose. To fix I had to rotate it 90 degrees and re-run my battery terminal leads, meaningit took 20 mins to install instead of 10.
Cost was easy to justify as in bike terms $100 isn’t much really, and they last far, far longer than lead acid and need less (almost no) TLC
All of my bikes have lithium I would never gone back to lead acid or gel.
Bike start first time , can seat for months and cranks up no problem .
Shady amperage numbers, need to warm up during cold weather. Why aren't you mentioning all that? This vid is bs
But what about the motorcycle charge circuit? Most bikes' rectifier / regulator is not a sophisticated design and is intended to charge Lead acid batteries. So if I want to change to a Lithium bike battery, that will mean an upgrade to the bike's electronic charging circuit as well, yes?
What if I do not have the possibility to charge my battery ? (no electricity in garage) ... can I remove the battery (and how.. plus and minus) and charge it in my apartment safely?
I went with a lithium battery a few years back and when the weather was cooler I had a hard time starting my bike. I went back to the lead acid.
They say in cold weather to turn your lights on for several minutes to put a draw on the battery to warm it up. Then it should start easier.
You should have mentioned the dangers of Lithium batteries below freezing temperatures. When it gets below freezing on the battery you really should warm the battery up before you start and run the bike, or you could cause the battery to burst into flames and resemble a Samsung Note 7.
I'm starting restoring my dads old 83' honda nighthawk 650 and I've been trying to update and upgrade it to modern standards so this helped a lot.
Dude! Lithium SUCKS in cold temperatures!
If you like riding in a winter weather like me here in new england, stay away with lithium.
If cared for as per the manufacturer's instructions, how long will the Shorai battery last for ?
I always thought lithium was bad in cold conditions. Apparently not. Well good for me then :).
IF my dirt bike came out with a Lithium can up put a lead acid in it?
Why are you guys repeating the content?
Did he say lithium performs better at cold temp and lead recovers better from deep discharge? WTH?
Chris Rolofson with Lithium battery construction of the cells need a service voltage to stay healthy. If you run the battery below this service voltage the battery is severely compromised. storage capacity and years of service are compromised. Even to the point if the service voltage is so low the battery will not charge no matter how new it is. Generally Regular batteries can be run down and recharged. I don’t have any luck with lithium batteries at cold temps. I have to leave the bike turned on for a minute or so before starting it to warm the battery up. I switched back to regular because I live in cold climates.
Mine started on fire! Went back to lead.
Just be careful if your bikes voltage regulator malfunctions and starts sending over 14.6v to the lithium battery. You could end up with a hot melting fire starter imbedded in the heart of your bike like I had.
Did you get it out? That's terrible
@@PercyJackson93 yes luckily it was easy to get to under the seat. Got it out just in time to then watch it flame and melt before my eyes on the side of the road!
Don’t some bikes also need a new lithium ion specific reg/Rec so they don’t over charge the batteries?
lithium Ion wants to be at a higher voltage (at full state of charge) than lead acid type so some bikes wont charge them fully also the have different charge cycles. My bike could never charge a Lithium ion battery to full, I would need to top it off with a charger
Plusses'ssss & minuses'ssss hahaha could have just said pros & cons bro
😄👍 was thinking the same dude...
One thing the video didn't cover, when cranking the motorcycle battery from a cold start, the battery needs to be warmed up as alot of people are saying, but there are problems.
1. Most modern motorcycles headlights don't come on until you crank the starter, which directly counterfeits the point of warming up the battery with the headlight on.
2. Accessories tend to drain the battery and they warm up the battery slower.
3. Some people recommends fast pulses of crank to "wake up" the battery, then again it counterfeits the point of warming up the battery before the crank.
Might be a very great idea to make a video or include in the video the several ways to warm up the lithium battery as most riders tend to stay away from it due to this problem ( i know i did and it costed me 2 lithium batts before i finally gave up )
Your beard is perfectly trimmed.
When you talk about charger are you talking trickle? All motor vehicles I know of have an alternator and voltage regulator. After starting charging goes to 14.4vdc and when the battery is fully charged goes down to 13.8 to keep the battery balanced. I am considering a lithium motorcycle battery for my Nissan Leaf. My only concern is if the lithium battery can take the constant charging that a car system throws at it. My lead battery cost 200 dollars and after a few cycles only has 20ah in real capacity even though it is considered a 50ah. Lithium promises more capacity per dollar and longer life. The EV doesn't need cranking power just 12v to start the vehicle. The DC/DC converter can run all electrical functions of the car.
Lithium batteries and lithium iron phosphate batteries have significant advantages in weight and volume. Its weight is one-third and its volume is one-third that of the Agm battery. Charging speed is also very fast when driving. Three and a half years have passed since this video was uploaded. Despite the above advantages, low-temperature startability is very low compared to the lead-acid battery. Charging a lithium iron phosphate battery at a temperature below 0°C, even if a low temperature start is successful, causes cell damage.
The bottom line is that if the area you live in doesn't go below 10 degrees Celsius, it's worth considering.
If not, I think we should think carefully. Not only is the reliability still low, but the price is at least two to three times more expensive.Lithium batteries and lithium iron phosphate batteries have significant advantages in weight and volume. Its weight is one-third and its volume is one-third that of the Agm battery. Charging speed is also very fast when driving. Three and a half years have passed since this video was uploaded. Despite the above advantages, low-temperature startability is very low compared to the lead-acid battery. Charging a lithium iron phosphate battery at a temperature below 0°C, even if a low temperature start is successful, causes cell damage.
The bottom line is that if the area you live in doesn't go below 10 degrees Celsius, it's worth considering.
If not, I think we should think carefully. Not only is the reliability still low, but the price is at least two to three times more expensive.
I have a 2015 Honda CBR600RR, I was in the market for a new battery and decided to go with the duraboost brand. However its constantly blowing fuses for my lights and speedometer as soon as I switch it on. Any ideas as to how to fix the issues?
That's all fine, but why not give a ballpark of what the LI charger costs or who makes them?
He mentioned costs. And there is google.
@@AbnormalWrench Well I could go research the whole thing on Google. Point being, if you're going to make a video comparison, it'd be nice to compare what the actual costs involved are. I got a PHd in learning how saving 5 lbs is going to make me Rossi. Be nice to know what it's gonna cost me to be so svelte.
@@saddle8bag Once again, he mentioned costs. I would find a time stamp for you, but that would take longer than googling it.
STOP moving your hands around its so annoying and such a distraction, talk with your mouth not your hands.
I have cold start issues below 50F on the larger street bikes. The DRZ400E with street lights was the exception, fired right up despite being stored outdoors. I used a brand new Deltran Lithium mode trickle charger that once killed my brand new Shorai. I don't know if the charger was defective or battery, but why take a chance. Now, I use just the regular charger mode if i need to trickle charge, it's never killed a battery.
Most frustrating with the Shorai is cold weather starts. I will turn the key over, turn on headlights to high, turn on hazards and wait a couple of minutes before cranking. Press start and if it doesn't turn over after 5 seconds, I turn the ignition off and then back on and repeat the above. Below 50F, I have to repeat 3 times. It is a little nerve racking because I have been conditioned such that a weak crank means, your battery is not going to get better by itself, but the lithium shorai does. I don't know about other brands, but I should try. Parts unlimited batteries are about 25% cheaper.
So what's the best lithium batter brand for my old '83 Suzuki GS750E?
Ya sure they perform better in colder temperatures? Don't you have to warm them up with your high beam on for a few minutes first when temps are really low?
For all of you people with questions about why you might need a special charger... Google, lithium battery fire
What about if you leave the lights on with A lithium battery can you jump it normally or will destroy it?
think some info was wrong, cold weather performance is known to be worse with lithium. Just ask my drones.
Fire danger is another negative. Ive seen a few garage fires from them
Will only happen if you use the wrong charger. If you really screw up the charging of a lead acid battery, it will explode too.
@@AbnormalWrench haven't seen any fires from them but I've seen a whole garage of big $ toys turn to ashes from a lithium ion
So I have a question. My bike has a place for a battery but dosen't require it (only has a kick start, no electric start) so should I use a battery or dose it not matter? Its a moped.
Don't disconnect your battery when storing, hook up a battery tender. They are very cheap and easy to hook up and will drastically increase the life of your batteries.
Probs should have mentioned that Lith Batteries can blow themselves up if the temp is really cold.
This helped me choose a lithium battery over lead recently. So happy I did, great Information and the performance is much better 👍
Thx❤
Yea yea
I will get a lithium battery for my race bike too!
Why do I need a special charger for this type of batteries?
🙌
If they go pop though, they are horrific to clean up chemicals inside are acrid and vomit inducing. I had one go in my bike and it was a nightmare to sort out. Had to wear a filter mask and scrub clean the battery tray.... swapped back to lead acid and it’s been solid as a rock...
i'm getting my new bike...yay
What bike are you getting?
@@Mr_LA_Z rieju marathon pro 125
How long do motorcycle lithium batteries tend to last?
How about a comparison of a Gel and Lithium??
Thanks for making it sample well said
Can you make a video on the different Quick shifters and the different ways to tune them! (in the power commander setting, how long it cuts the fuel ex...)
can you have BOTH batteries?
If Lithium batteries need a different charging system, what do you do to the charger in the motorcycle you mount it in?
Did you scroll past the same question asked 11 months ago?
Great review great comparison . I'm sticking with lead for my application. It does make sense on that ADV. I'm sure its probably noticeable. Thanks guys:))
：００
Will overcharging be a problem?
Bring back kick starters.
Good video guys and gals!!!!
Is there an easy way to tell if my battery is lithium ion or lead acid?
If it's light, it's not lead acid. Big difference in weight.
If I need a new charger, that means that I have to change the charging system on the bike? how do I do that?
He's talking about charging the battery out of the bike. The bike charging system does not need to be modified.
@@AbnormalWrench Yeah that was sort of implied, but my question is why a lithium battery need a different charger *outside* the bike, but *inside* a bike designed for lead acid it is perfectly fine? Sounds like the marketing branch thought that not only they can sell us a very expensive battery we don't really need (and doesn't work that well in real world), but also make us think we need completely new tools.
@@hawgietonight If you use the wrong charger, at best you greatly reduce the life of your Lithium battery, at worst, it catches on fire and burns your house down. No, it isn't a marketing gimmick.
Hi @@AbnormalWrench,
You partly answered his question, I'm also interested in the answer. Here I'll ask this part differently : Why would a lithium battery need a "special" (external) charger if the charging system in the bike originally made for a lead acid one should work fine ?
@@hawgietonight @Abnormal Wrench
Ok, I think I got the answer from another comment :
Chris#55
:
You can charge a lithium battery with a normal charger, unless the charger has a desulfation function, which most chargers have nowadays. It's used for lead batterys and it ups the voltage and the amps of the charge for a short time to get rid of the sulfate, that can built up in lead batterys. This desulfation process can kill a lithium battery because most of them don't have any mechanisms to protect against overcharging.
A lithium charger or a charger with a lithium charging program, simply leaves out this desulfation process.
Can you make a video on bikes with the shifter on the right?
I wouldn't bother. The prince of darkness with screw it up
what about its last time
2:50 why recommended to disconnect battery?
To prevent the battery dropping below its minimum voltage. Yes it has a low inherent drain BUT if you have a parasitic drain like a short then bye bye expensive battery and hello doorstop.
which is better for the environment?
Walking or cycling