INSANE ‘ORTHODOX JEW VS VEGAN’ BATTLE (I WAS DONE!)
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2024
- I had to walk off in the end...
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Note: I've decided to remove the section on worms ,until researching further. Should have really said, I'm agnostic (not sure), instead of claiming to know they aren't sentient. I'm reading up now on the best available research, it still seems grey as to whether they have a subjective experience or not. But better I stay a little more cautious when speaking on this topic in the future. If anyone has any conclusive research on worm sentience, I'd be happy to look at it. Please email it across.
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*Worms clearly are sentient, Joey*
Email me the research if you have it, Lou
Love you Joey
@@JoeyCarbstrong You made the claim that they are not sentient, so you have the burden of proof. Post your research!
Worm = animal.
Animal = sentient.
"animals do not have emotions!"
10 secs later
"My goats are happy!"
Ooo I didn't catch that one at the time. good spot!
Hilarious now that you pointed that out.
Humans are stupid and entitled at the same time, that's why they spout nonsence like this
This guy is absolutely lost. Not even worth the effort trying to talk to people who are so utterly detached from reality, but I applaud your patience!
Chickens are some of the most ANXIOUS birds around. They hide in their shed from dogs at the sanctuary. They experience, anticipate, and feel every ounce of suffering.
My grandma had chickens and when i was a kid i used to go and open the door in the morning for them, so they could go to the field, they were allready all on top of each other very close to the door because they knew i was going there open them the door. Chickens absolutely know what freedom is and what it represents to them. Every morning they were excited, impatient and eager to the door to open to get out of there. Also at night they seek the shelter when was dark and cold, but every morning they wanted freedom.
Yes, it's such a shame that we're taught that chickens & other animals are so mindless (like machines), but it's only so people can exploit them without guilt.
Woah... He actually just said its ok to kill a disabled human being. And he believes himself to be a man of God.
And then is so self deluded, to state that a chicken can feel pain but cannot suffer. Unreal
And it gets worse
He's backtracking. Says it's ok to kill the mentally handicapped humans on an island. Then realising what he said he says it's not.
I never did vibe with Jews. Where I'm from there is plenty (Stamford hill). Jews lack humanity. If two non jew people bump into eachother for example two people say sorry. But when one is Jew and one isn't they clutch their bags, give a dirty look and storm off. Yuk.
That’s totally within the character of the Abrahamic god.
We’re talking about a mythological being that encourages slavery, genocide, and rape. This should come as no surprise.
I was physically disgusted watching that man. He had no idea what he was talking about.
10% ignorant, 90% disingenuous
100% indoctrinated
@@NeutralMjolkHotel that's most of the human species for you.
25:56 “Does it taste better?” So they guy is willing to say boiling dogs alive is ok provided it enhances the flavor. Glad you got him here, Joey.
People need to go visit animal sanctuaries. These chickens LOVE each other. They are silly, playful, nervous, excited, and they vocalize each of these different emotions. They have personalities, they get happy, scared, lonely, just like us...
The only time he was quiet and seemed to think about the animals were when pigs and gas chambers were mentioned 🫣
jesusrevus8017, Dr Alex Hershaft explains very well, the Animal Holocaust.
This man could learn a lot from Dr Alex Hershaft !
I noticed that too.. Imagine having a history of being exploited and in denial of others’ exploitation.
Maybe that's because he doesn't pay for that in particular so he's able to look at it objectively?
@@Patrick-yc3tfexactly!
How can you have a debate with someone who doesn’t believe that dogs feel emotions. Happy, sad and depressed. Ignorance. He doesn’t think factory farms are cruel. I’m sure he would change his believe if he himself was raised in a factory farm.
There are many examples of animals caring about humans
''A dog can't feel depressed'' this dude is insane 😂
I'm an assistant veterinary student and I literally have in my notes dog breeds that are prone to depression if left alone because they usually are super clingy to their humans. People generally don't understand how complex non-human animal emotions can be, this is oftenly the result of the belief that humans are not animals.
@@luvamiart8567 hahahaha 'humans are not animals'. 🤣 Who can be that retarded? I think I'd piss myself upon seeing them. 😂 Hahahaha 🤣 - Someone who studies a biomedical science degree and took two optional module choices in evolution & development and human evolution. We have so many homologous genes with other non-human animals, including flies and mice. That's why we test the fuck out of them in our labs (not me personally, but our lecturers - who are often researchers since its a Russel Group university which means it gets the most funding for research - as well as other students) and how they provide us with useful results a lot of the time. 🤣 Not only that, but protein studies and fossils as well as dating of the fossils is proof of evolution to *any* remotely reasonable person who doesn't live in la la land and isn't narcissistic.
@@luvamiart8567 /delusional/psychotic. I'm Catholic as well but if your beliefs get in the way of you perceiving reality, you are narcissistic and you need help, not just for you but for the sake of others around you. If it's not the full-blown demonic personality disorder, then you can get help.
@@Narcissism-TheDarknessintheWor I don't understand your comment, are you calling me that or talking generally about people with those beliefs?
@@luvamiart8567 well I wasn't raised Catholic. Nor in any religion. So technically, I'm not. But I have Catholic beliefs after poltergeists came into our family home and the house had to be blessed (I did not believe my family at first and gaslit them and myself for years to avoid a belief in the supernatural, I put it down to aliens but anyone with a basic knowledge of physics would know that all life within our universe would not be able to overcome the laws of the universe and stack the chairs in a way that's physically impossible. And why would the activity diminish after hearing the name Jesus Christ in a blessing? Family learned to live with the diminished activity until moving) as well as another traumatic event that led me to reading the New Testament and Psalms. I also "believe" (lmao? 🤣) in the fact of evolution. Anyone who has taken a single module in human evolution or evolution and development, especially at a Russel Group university where lectures are taught by researchers who present their research, knows that evolution is a fact. Any sane, logical person would realise that and the onus is on you to educate yourself for the sake of all the species, without whom, you would not even exist. Research the source of your existence to show your respect to them. Your best bet is to attend lectures in this module ay a Russel Group university, since they are the most research intensive and get the most funding in order to research.
As a Jew who grew up religious, this is a position no religious Jew holds. It's absolutely insane.
Kosher slaughter?
You'd be surprised.
Orthidox jews are one of very few groups of people who still believe in animal sacrifice... stop lying to make your "tribe" look more favorable.
You didn't grow up very religious then
@@sarahcusack Literally in an orthodox Jewish family in Israel
It's infuriating how much carnists will lie and be dishonest just to try and 'win' an argument.
Wouldn't the matter be so serious. This would be pure comedy.
This guy was on another level of crazy. Great job keeping ur cool here Joey #Legend
This guy was absolutely delusional! He knew he lost and got super defensive instead of admitting he was wrong.
Pretty sure the delusional one is the one who said he wants to get rid of all carnivorous animals.
By his logic slavery is fine because although it's cruel and causes suffering, it's done for the gain of labor rather than for no purpose.
Great video Joey,
I just wanted to leave a message of appreciation for all your hard work.
I hope you take a moment to appreciate your efforts and remember how much good you've done so far.
Thank u dearly
Animals have eyes to see, a mouth to eat and ears to listen. Why wouldn’t their brain be used to think…
If religion can be used to justify factory farming there's something wrong with the religion.. As Christopher Hitchens said, religion makes good people do evil actions. And there's an example...
How does this guy not realize that his arguments saying that animals are less than they really are is what people have done through the ages to justify their actions against Jews.
Being jewish, it's one of the things that bothers me the most
I didn't want Joey to go there but sort of did just to show him the hypocrisy
He’s a fake Jew. Probably bloodline from the Khazarian Jews. The origin of the Jew is Khazaria. The Seir Mountains.
The slitting of throats is called kosher slaughter (known as shochet). It has been a J✡️✡️ish ritual for over 3,000 years.
Recent peer-reviewed John Hopkins genetic research by a respected Judaic MD shows that 97.5% of Judaics living in Israel have absolutely NO ancient Hebrew DNA, are therefore not Semites, and have no ancient blood ties to the land of Palestine at all. By contrast, 80% of Palestinians carry ancient Hebrew DNA and thus are real Semites, and have ancient blood ties to Palestinian Land. This means that the real anti-Semites are the Israelis who are stealing Palestinian lands in order to build Israeli settlements, and it is the Israelis who are the ones tyrannizing and mass-murdering innocent Palestinians.
It is an incontestable fact that the word
"Jew" did not come into existence until the year 1775. Prior to 1775 the word
"Jew" did not exist in any language. The word "Jew" was introduced into the English for the first time in the 18th century when Sheridan used it in his play "The Rivals" ', Il,i, "She shall have a skin like a mummy, and the beard of a Jew"
Prior to this use of the word "Jew" in the English language by Sheridan in 1775 the word "Jew" had not become a word in the English language. Shakespeare never saw the word "Jew" as you will see.
Shakespeare never used the word "Jew" in any of his works, the common general belief to the contrary notwithstanding. In his "Merchant of Venice", V.III.i.61, Shakespeare wrote as follows: "what is the reason? I am a lewe; hath not a lewe eyes?".
Why are you comparing jewish ppl to livestock? I care about humans and not animals. Animals are food or pets
@@GarudaLegends hUmAn bE AnIMAl, dUmB DuMb
I always enjoy the debates with people from cultures different than my own. The subject of wild carnivores is a slippery slope for debates and preferably avoided, because it’s not what veganism is about. It’s about what we personally do to not exploit and commodify animals. All of the other stuff about wild animals is a whole other subject, even if it is animal-related.
So would you want all lions killed?
Agreed, we should be entirely focused stopping human exploitation of animals, human meddling in the natural order be kept to a minimum as we usually end up making things far worse. Maybe one day humans can control the natural order without ruining it but that's so far ahead in the future that it's not worth talking about in the modern day as it'll just be another point omnivores use to reject veganism.
The thing nobody ever thinks about is the fact that there are very few big predators left in the world. People love to mention lions but actually there are not many lions left in the wild in Africa. Most big predators are being hunted to extinction; in a few decades they will be gone. Most people are influenced by nature documentaries, they have this fanciful "Lion King" images in their heads but in reality, real nature is nothing like the way it is being depicted in films and documentaries.
@@wewlad107 Well humans have already meddled with nature to the point where there are very few big predators left in the wild.
@@prettynoose888 and it ends poorly and devastates the ecosystem. Are you not against human slaughter of animals in the wild for exploitation? Just because that's already happened is not an argument for complete slaughter of carnivorous animals by arrogant humans who think we can control nature. Humans hunt herbivores in the absence of natural predators to avoid complete ecological collapse, are you pro hunting?
Animals are not moral agents, humans are. We should not be imposing our values onto carnivorous animals while we cannot even end factory farming and human exploitation of animals. Pointless exercise that only serves to drive away omnivores on the fence about veganism.
Joey, regarding your opinion on stopping wild animals from being carnivore predators, I think you must realize that humans interfering in any way in Nature always turns out really badly. It disintegrates into greed, further exploitation and even more bloodshed. It's really just the same type of arrogance as "breaking" a wild horse's spirit. They claim they're forming a bond with the animal and providing him a home, but it's really just so they can ride on his back whenever they please.
yeah that was very disappointing to hear
It's a whole thing referred to as Wild Animal Suffering and it's just a relatively new area of research within veganism.
@@hanumaniam No, it's just another way for humans to stick their noses in where they don't belong and cause another distraction in veganism. Hey, Wild Animals Though, let's see how we can further screw up Nature by intervening in it.
@@hanumaniam where can I find this research?
@@_Hewman_ There's no research! It's just pontificating troublemakers with nothing better to do than sit in front of the computer making up garbage like killing carnivores in the forest to muddy up veganism. Don't encourage this idiocy.
Well done Joey, you were a voice of intelligence versus complete non sensical and someone lacking in empathy.
A clear case of cognitive dissonance
No empathy whatsoever 😢😮
How's the hair?
It's important to keep non-vegans on topic. Some, like this one, conflate debating a vegan with debating veganism. Outside of veganism, vegans have all kinds of opinions and beliefs, like anyone else. Vegans are not a monolith on wild animals, abortion, and other topics.
Oh I think he made his position crystal clear
Joey is always talking about being consistent, so if you are in favor of not killing sentient beings for convenience then yoy should also be against abortion.
@@bluemeister22 a foetus is not a sentient being.
@@bluemeister22He did say he was against it when there is sentience.
@@bengilkes7676 Well at some point it is, do you think a 8 month old baby has no sentience?
I dont like watching lions tear antelope apart either, but this point about 'containing' all carnivorous animals is so bizarre to me.
Firstly, it goes against their rights to live a natural life.
Not to mention the fact that carnivorous animal are essential to a healthy functioning ecosystems.
Love your videos Joey, but this take just seemed not thought through enough.
In short he is saying: As long as we get something from a process which involves cruelty to animals - there is no cruelty.
Just a human big brain can do such mental gymnastics.
You tied that guy in more knots then the wires shoved behind my TV
I don't agree that we should have to wait until humans 'study' any particular wiggly thing (which usually involves taking them out of their natural environment and sometimes death) for us to decide whether to consider the life of said creature. Lets just err on the side of caution and also leave wild animals be.
Yes, humans are so arrogant to think they can "fix" wild animals' behaviors. It's the same arrogance of "breaking" a wild horse's spirit so they can ride on his back. Exactly, leave wild animals be.
This guy makes me sad to be jewish, my rabbi and I have spoken about veganism many times and he says a certain interpretation of the guidance from the torah show that we should all be vegan.
👍👍
17:33 where do they receive the pain * Gestures to his head" hahaha Joey you are hilarious. This concept just flew over his head.
I would love to see how he would react to feeling menstrual cramps. There was actually an experiment where they devised a machine using electrodes to simulate menstrual cramps on men, and they were such babies after 10 seconds! 😂 They wouldn't last a day, much less 5 like the average woman, and MUCH less every day like the poor wee chickens. 💚🌱
This guy should never try to debate this subject again. His logic is all over the place, and he just tried to keep talking without answering. Joey did a great job trying to keep him on track, and he remembered exactly what the guy had previously said and called him on it. Guy was slippery as an eel 😢 🐍
If causing pain to an animal is morally neutral, why would causing gratuitous pain then make you a bad person? That doesn't make any sense.
"Just by seeing them I can tell that chickens don't suffer mental anguish." Ridiculous.
Have you been brainwashed and groomed so bad in Traditions that you have not thought about thinking outside the box? Animals do feel pain and there is scientific research to back that up. Might want to start Googling stuff before you comment.
This guy is definitely a nincompoop!!! Way to go Joey!!!💪💓💪
I always wondered how to spell that 😂
Hit the nail on the head, this Jew certainly is.
This is what religion does to millions of humans and this attitude filters down into popular culture.
He seems completely disconnected from other species (well, he keep goats).
I looked after two cats years ago, they were joined at the hip (as such) - when the one died, the other cat mourned - it was pitiful to observe.
She experienced loss and was rocking backwards and forwards on her mat for days and looked lost.
This clot with his cute god-hat appears to have a rock for a heart.
Joey I wouldn't blame you for walking away from this one because this gentleman is closed-minded. He made up his mind he doesn't care about the truth he just wants to eat meat because he is walking by his flesh not by his spirit.
This man literally just said “I don’t need evidence, I just look at them”, to dismiss the mental anguish of factory farmed animals and that’s not even half way through. Not surprising you had to walk away from this
I'd prefer talking with a chicken actually. This guy is the definition of painful.
“That is a hypothetical which does not exist!”
Wow what an astute observation lmao
If you ask that guy "what would you do if you won a million$" he will tell you that that's a hypothetical and he'll refuse to answer.
"you're anthropomorphising" No you are are downplaying their suffering to suit your current lifestyle. If you're unsure about the level of suffering then surely that is more reason not to participate in it.
Thanks Joey! He had no good arguments.
This is a great example of how religion creates illogical humans who hide behind religion to commit heinous acts. If his god and the devil were in a room and a lamb walking who would kill the lamb? if his world his god would, which would bring into question who really is the compassionate being? This guy was exhausting!
Genesis 3:21 God sacrifices animals and makes clothes for Adam and eve out of animal skins.
In genesis 4:4 God was pleased with able when he killed his first born lamb from his sheep and gave the best parts as a offering
Those with negative comments about Joeys position on worms...Come on, it sometimes happen in the moment that you may say something you dont mean. We all know how much Joey cares..My advice to the people with negative comments is to try and get into a debate and see how stressful it is. Very easy to leave a comment in the comfort of your home..Keep up the good work Joey..You dont need any validation
I think it is our moral obligation to point out something we don't agree with. Put yourself in the worms' position.
I‘m a huge fan of your work, but I highly disagree to your opinion on predators. Killing predators to stop them from killing other animals is nonsens and would cause much more suffering. Predators play an important role in nature. They kill mostly weak and ill animals and they help the populations to stay healthy. I think that the much better answer would be „there are no ethics in nature, so we can‘t blame predators for killing other animals to survive.“ Also from a biological standpoint, it would be the collaps of many habitats.
Totally agree. I was very disappointed Joey said that wild carnivore animals should be interfered with, separated, lions fed vegan cat food etc. The focus should ALWAYS be kept on HUMAN exploitation of animals, not veering off into what we should do to animals with no control over their behavior! Not quite Vegan Gains ridiculous "kill them all" approach but not a proper vegan outreach point at all.
@@planetofthevegans880
" The focus should ALWAYS be kept on HUMAN exploitation of animals"
What is the argument for that?
Veganism is about the extension of basic legal rights and personhood to non-human sentient beings.
"what we should do to animals with no control over their behavior!"
Why does the lack of control matter? A psychotic axe murderer has no control of their behaviour, it doesn't mean that it's unjustified to kill them.
Why should we not be concerned about the immense suffering involved in predation? There are beings that tear up the flesh of other sentient beings whilst they are still breathing, it's abhorrent.
@@LorcaLoca Humans have moral agency to choose to do evil, wild animals don’t. They have the mindset of innocent children, not realizing they’re doing anything wrong. Yet you want to punish and kill all omnivore/carnivores because you find their behavior abhorrent? WTF do you call what humans do to animals then?
You sound like an animal-hater using “what wild animals do though” as a distraction. It’s also a psychopathic mindset to want to control all of Nature to suit your own impractical view of an Earthly Utopia.
Thank you Joey!
Based!
@@ARKSURVIVOR879 plant based :)
What is in red, money sign.
Veganism should be about what HUMANS do to animals, not what wild animals do to each other out of instincts and survival! It's just pure arrogance to think humans can design something better in Nature without making a big fat mess of everything.
Joey I love you but this isn’t the way to go about it. Carnivorous animals or herbivores isn’t the argument. We as humans should not be basing our morality and ethics off of what animals do. We as humans have a rational incomparable to any animals living amongst us, therefore we can reason to not eat animals and gain nutrients from other sources without killing. Saying it’s morally preferable to not have any animals that are carnivores is kind of not vegan. In my opinion.
To me (and by definition) veganism is about human use of animals.
Yes, veganism is about what HUMANS do to animals, not what wild animals do to each other out of instincts and survival! It's just pure arrogance to think humans can design something better in Nature without making a big fat mess of everything.
@@bengilkes7676 To stop animals from eating one another we'd have to kill all the birds as they eat bugs. That sounds like a bad idea. Just leave nature alone
Great transition from a hypothetical situation to a practical situation Joey!
I feel sorry for the animals that are dependent on him. Really sucks when that is someone who lacks empathy and genuinely believes animals are these mindless automatons, who do not deserve any moral consideration. He cannot even wrap his head around the notion that animals are capable of suffering.
he's clearly never had a cat try to run outside every time the door is opened lol
All I have to say is thank you Joey.
Whether or not you are looking at it from a secular position, cruelty is cruelty. This guy is so confused.
Animal rights people saying that carnivorous animals should be separated and fed vegan pet food is slightly embarrassing. Non vegan people will hear something like this and switch off immediately.
I do not agree with his view on this either. It is something he should not use when advocating for veganism in public. But that is only my opinion.
More than embarrassing. It's actually insane to hold that view point.
Speciesism and ableism's intersection are so evident here.
That’s insane that level of DENIAL.
Joey you’re looking like a
Tank! 🦍 keep it up man 💪
This is why suffering shouldn't even be brought up. Doesn't matter if an animal suffers or not. Their rights being breached, their bodies being exploited is wrong regardless of suffering. If it's all about suffering, anything happening to someone after being given a rofie should be legal right? Man, I hope this person doesn't procreate. His moral bankruptcy needs to stop at him. And he claims to be religious? Yikes!!! 😬
I am quite shocked. Joey doesn't care about worms and bugs? I most definitely do. Are worms really not sentient? I even care about the salt crystals sized fuckers. They are probably not going to suffer immensely, but it is moving and alive, so I respect it, unless there is proper science proving otherwise. Even when it is proven, I would not want to kill a small fella, just because there is beauty in movement and the journey they are on. I even think about plants suffering in some way. I know, highly unlikely and not supported by science, but we could be wrong. 😄 I still feels weird to me to cut trees down. Maybe more because those giants are way older than me and their majestic presence, their positive effects on humans and their role in holding this world together is way more important to me, than cutting them down. 🙈 Yes, I am an very empathetic soyboy, sorry! 🤷♂️
We argue that all living organisms, from the simplest unicellular prokaryotes to Homo
sapiens, have valenced experiences-feelings as states of preference-and are capable of
cognitive representations. Bacteria can learn, form stable memories, and communicate, hence
solve problems.
These displays of learning at the level of cells are sufficient to make the case for basal
sentience as a “scale-free” phenomenon. For example, slime molds can navigate pathways
dotted with aversive acids at arbitrary points by learn to avoid contact with the acidic points.
Experiments confirm that fungal organisms perceive their outer world in a
way that is very similar to how animals sense their environment.
Laboratory studies demonstrate that fungi produce patterns of electrical activity quite similar to
neuronal activity. Furthermore, fungi exhibit surprisingly complex behaviors and wide-ranging
sensory capacities, establishing stable memories that enable learning and decision-making.
Therein lie the difficult questions about ethical conduct, welfare, precautionary principles,
distribution of suffering, and a host of other concerns. We do not want to end up
where Ng (2016) would take us: "For nonsentient species, we do not have to care about their
welfare, as they do not have any welfare."
My thoughts exactly. I don't understand how any vegan can be ok with killing insects, worms, bivalves or any animal life. Killing plants is bad enough but necessary for survival.
It's like an alien species arriving on Earth and proclaiming, "It's ok, guys. These humans don't have a zyzwene or a clextral system so fire at will! They're barely above bacteria." We cannot know the life experience of an organism with a vastly different biology from ourselves so we cannot dismiss it on that basis.
I thoroughly enjoyed reading your comment Mr. Gottfried.
Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for what you do Joey. x You are an inspiration to a 23 year old girl like me who struggles to live in this world as a vegan surrounded by people who cannot see how I see. I thought it'd be easier for people to see why veganism is crucial. Unfortunately, it isn't easy.
Jesus will help you, rather than Joey. The world is descending into chaos & veganism isn't going to make a difference. Choose eternal life, as opposed to leaping into the pens, alongside the animals.
Which part of being vegan surrounded by people who aren’t makes it a struggle?
@@Unmasking_Viandalisme since when is it a good idea to talk to imaginary friends as an adult?
@@Unmasking_Viandalismeif you believe in eternal damnation, do you think God will forgive you for subjecting animals to unspeakable suffering?
@@robinhood6143 You're welcome to your opinion, which carries no more weight then does mine.
Who made you (imaginary) God?
His chickens are ‘happy’ but dogs have no emotions.
Hes transformed his religious clothings in to a COSTUME OF HALLOWEEN.
Suits his argument
Well done Joey! You had him dizzy in his thoughts! Love the contradictions!
Another case of how cultural indoctrination makes a person weak and narrow minded no matter where one is
from. I wish this guy could see the obvious parallel between how the animals suffer and how the Jews suffered in the Holocaust. Well done Joey for trying for the voiceless animals.
Animals are food for jewish ppl and everyone else. Stop comparing jewish ppl to food.
I like it how he keeps insinuating that the secular world doesnt have any moral value. Yet its secular people who are saying animals suffer and protest against all sorts of other moral issues outside of veganism
religious people can be so blind to reality
depends alot on the religion and its teachings
Religious people are blind to reality as they believe something which isnt real.
This was awful on both sides
One person advocating peace and the other person saying animals have no emotion and that it is impossible to be cruel towards them. Totally bad on both sides sure
@@maggot1111666 I meant the way they argued. I love Joey, but arguing for predators to be given vegan cat food is ludicrous
To me (and by definition) veganism is about human use of animals.
Not Joey's brightest moment. A lot of interrupting on his side. Strange view on killing carnivorous animals in the wild and the lack of respect towards worms, in particular.
Worms are not sentient. But yeah that part about lions is weird.
Joey has seen some pushback on his claim about worms and plans on looking more into the topic of worm sentience before claiming they are not sentient. If you have any resources, please send them through 🙂. And Joey didn’t say we should kill carnivorous animals, he only said it would be preferable that they don’t exist or that maybe separating them from prey and feeding them fortified vegan food is something we can do. (he doesn’t claim this confidently) -Admin
@@JoeyCarbstrong but the disclaimer was as long as it doesn't cause ecological damage which it obviously would without even thinking about it. Did you not learn about the food chain? Just because humans aren't the top of it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
@@JoeyCarbstrong I just think veganism, by definition is about human use of animals.
Joey, thank you so much. I just couldn't, I'm allergic to those people.
While many may not agree with me, I believe that Joey did a commendable job in his attempt to prompt this individual to clarify his moral stance. If this were merely a debate about justifying why you aren’t vegan, it was crucial to comprehend the opponent's justifications. Nevertheless, if the objective was to encourage this individual to embrace a vegan lifestyle, I believe that engaging in his arguments may not have been the most effective approach. This is personally why I don’t like debate prompts and go for more of a educational approach by showing them footage and keeping the discussion focused on why eat animals when you can eat the plant based version.
As much as we would prefer predators not to prey on others, it is often impractical to eliminate them to protect other animals. As someone once wisely stated, when a lion must feed her cubs and they face the prospect of starving and dying, we tend to sympathize with the lion. However, when we are concerned about the well-being of the gazelle, we naturally root for their escape from danger.
Humans meddling in Nature NEVER works out. It's pure arrogance to think we can control what goes on in the Wild Kingdom of animals.
Joey - I like your content! One thing I ask you to consider: Prey animals may not suffer in the way you expect when being “shredded alive” by predators. Notice how they often stop struggling and seem to resign themselves to death rather quickly.
Humans who have a near death experience often report leaving the body so as to not feel pain during whatever incident causes their death. A similar mechanism may be at play for animals - we simply don’t know.
This is not to excuse the killing of animals. It’s just to say that we tend to project when we consider what it just feel like to be a prey animal who has been caught.
Wow, You have the patience of a saint, Joey.
If you want to seperate carnivorous animals from their prey then how do you want to prevent overpopulation? This concept doesn't make sense. I'm 100% for veganism but I think this just goes too far. How do you want to prevent sharks from eating fish? First of all sharks are the most important animal to look after the ocean which is the biggest ecosystem on earth. It would completely collapse without sharks not even including other predtory sea animals. Secend of all it is impossible to keep sharks in aquariums without them going insane. This is more psychic torture for the sharks than it is for the prey.
I do really hope that the "I'm 100% for veganism" part means that you are vegan, as otherwise that statement is just wrong.
Aside from that, I do agree that joeys view on this is not thought through at all. Such a thing would never be able to be implemented. It comes with a lot of problems. And in the end we would need to murder animals in order to keep the balance, which goes against veganism again.
The mental gymnastics needed to justify a mundane chicken sandwich. It’s exhausting.
What an brilliant* interlocutor!
* My definition of "brilliant is: "someone who is doing insane mental gymnastics in order to not appear cruel - and failing horribly"
You've destroyed your whole argument by saying you don't care about worms
Joey has seen some pushback on his claim about worms and plans on looking more into the topic of worm sentience before claiming they are not sentient. If you have any resources, please send them through 🙂 -Admin
I'm a big fan of Joey C. but I wish he would let people speak more... especially when they're clearly prepared to have a thoughtful conversion like this guy.
Even if what they're saying is objectionable, like this guy.
Joey was absolutely losing this debate on every front…and just wouldn’t let the man finish his points. Stop interrupting and have a civil discussion. Joey you have a lot to learn.
Thank you so much Joey!
🌿🌿🌈💚😊🌎🌸🦋😄🍓🌏
I like how people will point out that empathy for animals involves an anthropomorphic perspective, but then go on to make completely unsubstantiated claims about animals lacking an experience of suffering or mental anguish. A lack of knowledge about what animals experience does not imply a knowledge of what experiences they lack.
What a strange man... dangerous thinking.
This is the worst mind-boggling mental gymnastics I’ve seen in ages 😵💫
Wild chickens dont naturally lay an egg a month. Its not menstruation. They lay 10-20 eggs a year between 2 instances. They lay eggs twice a year. They lay an egg daily now.
Greed is vial. Classifying causing suffering as not cruelty is more vial
Once again proving the highly religious are the worst in how far they will go in justifying their needless violence."Dogs can't feel depressed" sounds very culty IMO
Scary person indeed. Joey, tu for putting up with such a deranged, cold, person for more than 20 mn
Amazing how much stupid shit some people say to defend their lack of empathy and compassion
Joey's last point about the dog meat festival practices definitely gave him the win.
Contradicting himself repeatedly and denying that too
It’s pretty hard to reason with humans that are this dense
Orthodox Judaism encourages and promotes compassion towards animals as they too are god's creatures. There's been rabbinic guidance to reduce meat intake as much as possible to reduce suffering.
Bless your heart Joey this one was rough
The twists and turns this gentleman goes through to justify his actions that are clearly misaligned with his values. :(
Joey, your level of patience far surpasses mine. I applaud you for putting up with this awful person.
You are so patient Joey. This dude is ridiculous.