@@VikingSamurai If Anthony does make a video he NEEDS to address the kata from "Togakure ryu". This more than anything is the absolute crux of the issue. Not the jujutsu like kata from Gyokko or Koto ryu that is frequently is the basis for Taijutsu in the Bujinkan which is what I suspect anthony was exposed to - It's Togakure ryu and its Ninja specific kata that is the real issue. In a way I'm annoyed with Anthony. Anthony has done sterling historical work . His Chikamatsu book is absolute gold for example. But it's annoying that he refuses to examine in depth Togakure ryu and its physical mechanics, because its here and only here that the Bujinkan claim lies. BTW I'm not a ninjutsu practitioner. I have no dog in this race. But there is a glaring hole in this whole argument that Anthony needs to address.
Ninjutsu is real but not the way people think. The way people see ninja is the all black clad dudes. Watch Stephen Hayes vs Navy Seals or SF dudes. It not only hilarious but an amazing demonstration of ninjutsu. Being “seen yet unseen”. It’s f*ing amazing!
Absolutely! I admire your posture of always being open to dialogue and respectful. I even remember you talking about that it is important for a samurai to present himself properly and always being trustworthy. Valuable teachings that everyone can apply on a daily basis.
I appreciate what you do very much ... the shadows we have adored for so many years in the 9 ryuha need to answer to the light of truth. I am ex bujinkan and agree with many sides of your opinion on not just the history of the arts..but the unfortunate lack of efficiency that is taught as well. As a true budoka of fighting arts.. it is disappointing. I love the 9ryuha.. but I am a serious martial artist with 35 years experience, and have pro fighters out of my school. I cannot stand by students having a false sense of security or worshiping rank more than experience and ability. Please continue your path.. because it helps so many who are seeking truth in budo. Arigato, buyu OSS
A really good discussion. A lot of people get confused or don't know the origins of the Samurais, Shinobis, Warrior Monks... teachings because of the culture or language barriers. For instance in this video you were talking about the different teachings scrolls. Some I knew most I didn't but when you explained what it was in English then I knew what you were talking about. Now maybe I heard it before from your channel or other sources but I can't recognize it because I don't speak Japanese only very few words.
Nice video. Most people don’t understand that training of samurai would be similar in objective as basic military training today, but they would train several hours a day just like basic training today and be ready for the battlefield as soon as possible during times of war. During times of relative peace your focus is, or should be to be prepared for when war breaks out!
@thejugador I don’t think they hide the fact that it is! Mr Cummins has also been trying to clear the air that said schools teach samurai military arts, and ninjutsu is but one facet of military action. The samurai had a special division of espionage and unconventional warfare which we call Ninjutsu, or basically the way to hide, or infiltrate! Scrolls with this specialized information would obviously had been kept on a need to know basis! Each military school would teach 18 military arts, of various weapons and strategies, and ninjutsu was but one!
Hey Antony... would love to see ya do some seminars or something along those lines in Oz. (Australia). Really enjoying your books mate, and the channel is a lot fun. Your positive outlook in researching the reality of ninjutsu is so interesting. Great work.
I really hope @VikingSamurai can pull this together to have both @AntonyCummins and Stephen K. Hayes in a joint interview. That would be amazing! Antony's concept for such an event sounds like a great idea.
I trained in the Booj for a few years way back in the 90s. (I was a 12 y.o. kids in the early 80s who discovered the SKH books and fantasized about being a Ninja.) Anyway, I had just 2 years of HS wrestling to my name. I'll never forget being at a seminar and being paired up with a very high ranking black belt and absolutely man-handling him in grappling. I loved my teacher and classmates but that started getting me thinking that there was a lot missing to what was being taught. Plus, all we did were super-slow "punches" in class and I knew I was not learning anything that I could use to defend myself. I eventually dropped out when the UFC started exploding, and I eventually started with BJJ in mid-200s. And I felt like I was home (because I was always partial to grappling). I believe the UFC has settled the "striker v. grappler" debate and don't care to get into it, but I can state without hesitation that if all a martial artist knows is Bujinkan or To-Shin Do, et al, and have not devoted any serious time to grappling and ground fighting, then they will get smoked every single time. I will bet any amount of money every single time on a BJJ relative beginner against any of the Ninjas who know nothing but posing with a sword or punching in slow motion...
The Ninja vs. Samurai was a Cowboys vs Indians fantasy that Hayes put into his books. There is no spy school that operates apart form the military (aka government). You can look at NSA, CIA, etc and while they do not operate just a military platoon, they are funded and operate as part of the government. Does reg military "capture"? Yes. Does special forces "capture"? Yes. Does CIA/KGB "capture"? Yes. "I'll be sure to check out the interview. Would love to see you both talk about the future of Ninjutsu. If you are not learning modern lockpicking, modern electronics, modern social engineering...you are not a modern Ninja.
The "hand-to-hand" of Togakure-ryū is from the jūjutsu/taijutsu of the Toda family, AKA Gyokko-ryū kosshijutsu and Kotō-ryū koppōjutsu. There never was kata in ninjutsu until Toda Shinryūken systematized the kata for the young Takamatsu since Toda Shinryūken was so old as a quick method of transmission. This is why some of the santō-tonkō-gata look like some of the kata from Gyokko-ryū and Kotō-ryū. It is the same for Kumogakure-ryū. Gyokushin-ryū ninjutsu has Gyokushin-ryū koppōjutsu and jūjutsu as it's taijutsu. Hope this makes sense to you and Bujinkan members as well as most don't understand this. Again there never was hand-to-hand kata in Togakure-ryū ninjutsu until Toda Shinryūken systematized it based on his family's jūjutsu. Only thing that existed was hajutsu-no-hō and we don't know what that was. Ninjutsu only ever had insert_name-no-hō, never kata. Ninjutsu is outside the normal line of transmission of kata found in koryū bujutsu. The source of this is from Hatsumi-sensei via a conversation from a top Brit living in Japan. Same information was told to a Israeli friend of mine via Harada-shihan via Hatsumi-sensei. This will upset more BJK members than you Ant but oh well. It's still old and it's still traditional with an official line of transmission and that is what matters.
Still old and traditional? So now Toda is said to have originally done this when it has been said that it is not 34 generations old handed to Takamatsu. You are still taking the word of Hatsumi or the Brit who told you or whatever. Toda has not been proven to even exist, let alone do any of what has been stated. Did Toda also suggest to add comic book characters as part of the history to protect the real names? This story just keeps getting more and more incredulous. The goal post keeps moving.
@@ericweil8843 your condescending tone and unwarranted smugness is typical of many self righteous Buj cult members, however, I am not assuming anything, I can only go off the claims that Takamatsu/Hatsumi/Buj have made, albeit with absolutely no proof whatsoever. I was just seeing if there was any new information. It would be refreshing, but since there is no clarification by you or anyone so far who has felt the need to tell the world about these wild claims without good reason, it is going to have to be perceived to the world of rational people as a faith based charlatan led martial art/religious cult as it always has been.
It would be really intriguing to see you both interviewed. Takamatsu school is probably not a koryu, most likely he made it up but hey all schools were made up at some point. The only thing that matters is if the teachings work
@@Aneas10 my knowledge on him it's a little rusty but if I remember correctly he knew some legit martial arts like judo for example. And fought in China both in a war and for some criminal organization. It's not simple to do research on him, first there's the language barrier, second a lot of the knowledge is in Hatsumi hands and we all know how he changes things constantly.
What if someone was a talented martial artist, and studied history, but over time, and through some kind of delusion disorder, really thought themselves to be a grandmaster of the oldest tradition(s)? Maybe he really did believe he was a grandmaster/soke after he had pieced together parts of history. Who know? But this would actually explain a lot.
@@R.Merkhet as in the colloquial term that many western people use to refer to a head of a martial arts organization. (Like you didn’t know but whatever)
I've always wanted to know, "Ok, Takamatsu wasn't teaching ninjutsu, fine. He was teaching _something_ , so what's the story behind _that_ ?" And I won't accept a generic answer like "old budo". There's a story that needs to be uncovered and told...if possible.
The thing is ... he was teaching ninjutsu. But people can believe whatever they want. Takamatsu used what he knows in China and was involved in espionage activities.
@@punisher7772 cool answer. You sound like a Washington DC spin-doctor. "What were our agents doing there?" Asked the press Corp. "Well espionage, of course. Next question please."
I really like the explanation for is the school and teacher any good. See, I agree the teacher may not look like an intimidating person but they might show a high level of skill and knowledge on the topic of what they teach. Thus looking at if you would win a fight against them can be a factor but it's not the only one.
Would be great to see you two talk. Both articulate and educated. Anthony, you remind me of the Steve Irwin, the crocodile hunter except with Samurai instead of crocodiles. The Samurai Hunter.
Cant recall now what video it was, but you mentioned a scroll that covered how to observe people to study them or something. I have autism and I want to learn that scroll as a starting point and because I think it will help me navigate being in public. What book of yours contains that scroll?
When I go to a "Ninjutsu" Dojo, I want to learn a good mix of martial Arts that just work. e.g. the best Jiu Jitsu techniques, strikes and kicks, stances and distance, some grappling, rolling, body movement, and occasionally some weapons training. I certainly don't want to learn about Shintoism/Buddhism beyond very few basics like the 9 Handforms and the pattern to deny demons, but I'd put it in a Christian context as a Catholic. I also don't wanna learn old Japanese Military tricks how to build bombs and set fires and do espionage, but it's good to have these available in books, which you provide. I certainly would enjoy you and Stephen Hays talking about that in a video. I think Stephen should put together a few books for a "Ninjutsu" hand-combat training manual, basically what to train to get from "white to black belt", and you should add your philosophical/military stuff, and we might get the best and most fun "MMA+" formula (minus the usual Ninjutsu BS).
Anthony, first and foremost, thank you for your effort. I studied Taijutsu for 6 years from a very unique and passionat teacher back in the early 90s in California. He was a man from Israel who studied in Japan during the late 70s and 80s with Hatsumi and left to study with Tanemura after the break. He had his reasons. The greatest impact I got from him was his commitment to teaching self preservation through an art that he made effective. It was not his livelyhood. He taught out of passion. However, he did not teach the espionage and special kwoledge of what you brought to light through your translation of the Bansenshukai. He had his reaons and exlained it to us. I found his reasons sound...safety being the main...lots of crazy people in the States. His expression of Taijuts helped me as a security officer during my many situations in the States. His philosophy of the art helped me the most during my youth...the little things he always said....don't forget the small things. As a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practitioner, those words helped me the most. Wen pn a tangent...I remeber us at the dojo learning Taijutsu from sensei; we wanted to learn the skills from the Bansenshukai...most of us wanted that. Now, that you have made it available, many have reacted negatively to your effort. In simple words...thank you mate. Cheers.
Maybe, if you and Stephen Hayes can agree to publish a "white to black belt" basic manual series for "Ninjutsu", you should call it something else, like Shinobi-Taijutsu, since the term Ninjutsu is so loaden with BS already. I think a Coop for this would be best, since without the Japanese "Ninja" history that you researched so well, it would just be another MMA style, but it needs this Ninja connection to be more fun. After all Ninjas are COOL, just not the way many Dojos teach it.
Hello Antony! I hope you are well. I don't know if it was a lack of attention on my part, but I would like to know if you've already researched something about Amatsu Tatara. Within the "Ninjutsu" Takamatsu Den these documents are cited. The curious thing is that this appears inside a book that contains documents about the Kuki Clan. They seem very interesting to me, but few people talk about it, and it seems to me that they are more interested in the medicinal part of Amatsu Tatara. On the other hand, Antony would like to know if you can already analyze the documents that are in the possession of ninjutsu masters. To be able to check if they are really real, old, if they have a connection with some part of history, etc. By the way, was there already a willingness on the part of these masters to authorize the analysis of these possible documents? Thank you very much and good luck with your work.
What's the north star of your sun/moon analogy? Perhaps our enduring direction, or aspiration what we are surviving for. Wonder what Andromeda will be like for the "ninja" of the future.. thanks for the video.
Hayes’ “misunderstanding” about your views on ninjutsu appears to be a deflection. Hayes seems to be a stand up guy, but your research and opinions challenge his entire legacy and business model. At the end of the day, he has a business to run and a reputation to uphold. Unlikely he will collaborate with you.
I don't really get the surprise here. When I started training ninjutsu, it was explained very early on that ninjutsu is just being used as an umbrella term for its recognition. We call it ninpo. Ninjutsu is not a martial art, the arts are samurai fighting arts, all within the various schools. I was under the impression that this is common knowledge.
@AntonyCummins Maybe that's how a lot of Bujinkan schools did it, where they really didn't explain all the various schools. We periodically re-explained where certain techniques were from, like Gikan Ryu, Gyokko Ryu, Koto Ryu, which is the majority of techniques we practiced. I remember the first time Sensei showed us techniques from Komogakure. Maybe it's a Genbukan thing, or maybe I just lucked out with my teacher. Either way, your info is appreciated, I hope. Especially for those that are just interested in being good martial artists.
@@solidsnx Hello there! Just want to let you know that Antony doesn't receive notifications for replies to his replies so he didn't see your follow up comment, he only receives notifications for new comments; just a heads up!
Yes, I've read some other books which pointed out that "ninjutsu" was not primarily a "martial art" - it was a lifestyle of survival and espionage and military. Which, as you say, is like the sun - survival in particular covers a lot of ground, as the modern-day "prepper" community have demonstrated, not to mention espionage and military science. One problem I would have, however, is that no military today does what the samurai did - instead, we have artillery, combined arms, operational planning, etc. - stuff that Andrea Martyanov talks about in his videos, stuff that's going on in Ukraine today. So unless one includes that stuff into a modern-day version of "samurai", a lot is left out. Not even "special ops" stuff covers that stuff - that's a subset of military science. As for espionage, today you'd have to include hacking and computer security to be a "ninja". Perhaps the term "ninjutsu" should be limited to the specific philosophy and attitude that encompasses the various activities of survival and espionage and military action, rather than the activities themselves.
Anyone can argue anything but that doesn't mean your argument has merit. You have been presenting the historical record over the last ten years (plus). In my view, the only argument that would hold any water involves comparing your research with other research of the same caliber. A scroll that counters your research would have merit. Saying a scroll exists without verification means nothing. Fact versus fact not fact versus opinion. Further, you bring a holistic attitude to the table. Because you have an open mind, you make room for everyone. Bringing Mr. Hayes into a direct discussion would do much for everyone interested in this topic. It would make one hell of a webinar. There is plenty of middle ground to go forward. I hope he responds.
A few things bothered me. Viking said something about “that guy Hatsumi”. Sounded a bit rude. Pronounced it Bugeekan. Neither could pronounce Antony’s name correctly. Plus, neither really explained Antony’s research shows that taijutsu wasn’t specific to “ninja”. Just my 2¥ worth……..
UYESS!!! plus stpehen Hayes YESS..Have been searching for truth and knowledge! have both of your books and am slowly learning more. Please discuss To-Shin-Do) Have been following on his site slowly along with mucking about through japanese articles and translating them onine.. what is the next..piece? Apologies..Thanks!! Much Respect!!
Interesting video. Now Anthony I simply must ask you a question that has puzzled me for some time. You say that the scrolls and all the information that history has left behind on Ninjutsu that we have gathered until now, doesn´t mention anything about hand to hand combat. OK I´m with you so long. Now would you also say that a person trained in all aspects of Ninjutsu is unable to do hand to hand combat or to fight? I ask the question like this because I think the answer will be interesting. Maybe I´ve not asked correctly, but I think you know what´s going on in my mind. ;) I´ll look forward to hear your answer....
@@AntonyCummins I´m sorry Anthony if I´ve overlooked this. But now you´ve eliminated all doubt I might have had and you´re still regarded with respect and I still have hight thoughts about you. Your answer was that of a wise man. Thankyou for your directness. I hope it made it worth answering the question once again. ;)
Hi Anthony, Good Video. As a teacher, you are correct and I may be wrong in the translation, but would the versions of Japanese Jujutsu taught by westerners might be classed as Gaijin Gendai Jujutsu? Probably other confusions are the Brazilian Jujutsu compared to Japanese Jujutsu. Regards Steve
Man I see that you have like a rather biased view of Takamatsu and I understand it also became a whole mythology around himself but there are several current books about the life of Takamatsu, I suggest you take a look at them, and spoiler no he was not a writer fond of ancient manuscripts on martial arts.
It's simple. Japan had wars, therefore needed spies and assassins, spies needed training, as we all know Japanese folks are very methodical and precise, so they developed methods and tactics and training and equipment to support this job. It existed all of it the whole system, as I said we know the Japanese are very systematic. There was some kind of hand to hand jutsu, there had to be, BUT what these guys like Anthony want is something to grab for and sell it for money...he is benefiting from ninjutsu, that is what put him on the world map....it is hard to sell a product that has no roots and that is an economical issue here. Practicality is what we have to be focused on as warriors, not tradition, respect it but evolve. MMA is now what ninjutsu was back then...use what u have and make it work for you. I am not historian I am warrior, been in 3 wars and survived, enemy don't care about are u following Bujikan or Pikachu ryu, he just wants to end u. So to conclude if you are historian I will tell u for sure that you will never find the roots of it because it was hidden and passed mostly verbally, but if you want to live a life like a certified ;) ninja that uses all these skills to better his existence and protect himself and people around than just train and practice.....and include new skills that are needed now in this era. This bla bla behavior is for geeks and weaklings.
Masaaki Hatsumi never claimed his hand-to-hand combat style is ninjutsu, he always referred to hand-to-hand combat as taijutsu, not ninjutsu, and never claimed Bujinkan fighting styles are exclusively practiced by ninjas, some Bujinkan fighting styles are of samurai origin like Kukishin-ryū, and some are of Chinese origin like Shinden Fudo-ryū which is one of the styles studied by Edward William Barton-Wright, the founder of Bartitsu, and Edward William Barton-Wright has nothing to do with Bujinkan but they use the same fighting style, so in Bujinkan, the hand-to-hand combat is not ninjutsu it's just one of the Skiles of ninja and is not exclusively for the ninjas, but when we talk about skills of stealth and espionage and surviving and even meditation, this is referred in Bujinkan as ninpo, but the problem is when the western people went to learn the ninjutsu from Masaki they weren't interested in ninpo they were just interested in taijutsu the hand-to-hand combat, they took that to the west and they presented the taijutsu as ninjutus, so I don't blame Masaaki Hatsumi on this miss-representation of ninjutsu, I blame his western students, if you watch his old videos you will see so much ninjutsu skills of stealth and infiltration, but later Masaaki realized that people are not interested in these stuff, people are interested in how to fight with fancy moves, so he start focusing on teaching taijutsu more than ninpo.
@@AntonyCummins the word ninjutsu is a big umbrella of many skills, so its meaning changes depending on the context, I don't know which type of book by Hatsumi you have read if you have read his general book about ninjutsu or a philosophical book, of course, you will find the word ninjutsu used in a general way but if you read a training book it's a different story, the training books talk about the details and make a clear distinction between ninjutsu and taijutsu but without separation be cause taijutsu is part of ninjutsu, in page 9 of the book GRANDMASTER'S BOOK OF NINJA TRAINING, Masaaki Hatsumi said: "The Taijutsu that I teach is founded in freedom, and the feeling that we are looking for arises out of freedom of movement. This freedom is so important. A person who does not appreciate how precious freedom is cannot understand my taijutsu" as you can see he refers to his martial art as Taijutsu, not a Ninjutsu, Bujinkan system is based on 9 schools, and seven of them are purely Taijutsu not Ninjutsu at all, and Hatsumi always talks about these 7 schools as samurai and chines martial arts, used by both ninjas and non-ninjas, there are only 3 schools in Bujinkan that use ninjutsu and two of them are a mix of ninjutsu and taijutsu, so Hatsumi called them ninpo taijutsu to make a distinction with other taijutsu schools. hope now it's clear, and wish you a wonderful day.
HELLO TO ALL NINJA AND SAMURAI ENTHUSIASTS!!! ON BEHALF OF ANTONY CUMMINS I WOULD LIKE TO INFORM YOU THAT HE DOESN'T RECEIVE NOTIFICATIONS FOR REPLIES TO HIS REPLIES. HE ONLY RECEIVES NOTIFICATIONS FOR NEW COMMENTS. IF YOU ARE NEW TO THE CHANNEL ANTONY WOULD LIKE YOU TO START BY WATCHING HIS 2020 DOCUMENTARY.
Man I still find it dumb to say that a family "ended" just because they have only women. It already is dumb this practice of women having to take the surname of the husband(but never the opposite), but to say a family ends just because there's only women is extra dumb because it makes it seem that women were never really considered part of a family since they would lose their surname in favor of the husband's. So only men would be considered heirs or something only because they got to keep their surname. So much for "being a family".
It is a different concept of "being a family" I read a quote about how a cousin to the sixth degree couldn't really be considered related. Also, in Japan a man could take his wife's name. It usually happened when a woman married a man of lower social rank. He would then be adopted into her family and become her rank.
Hi Antony! After I see the Stephen K. Hayes interview, I don’t think he is going to change his opinion about what he learned in Japan, and the things he is doing, because he is to set in his ways. Instead I agree with him about what he says about the techniques taught in the Bujinkan, that Takamatsu is not made them, obviously he is get them from somewere. Maybe Takamatsu change a little bit of the way them are practiced, thing that is obviously in what Hatsumi did. Probably if the techniques taught in Bujinkan were practical in the past. But, here is a point that many of Bujinkan students don’t understand is that ninja and samurai in the past do these things to extreme, not like a weekend jaunt, or a gathering, for social interaction. today many of Bujinkan students and instructors alike talk about super ninja atheletes ans skills,yet they themselves demonstrate a poor example of an athelte. Not only they are out of shape and sticking to unrealistic combat scenarious, but they are also use a history ( this one is probably made up) as an excuse.
Ninjutsu is a verb basically. It isn't a thing alone. It's a thing you DO to something else. I can learn Kenjutsu, and then I can "Ninjutsu" that Kenjutsu. What comes out of that is not going to be the entire curriculum that I studied as Kenjutsu. It will be a refined or streamlined version of it that represents more applicable functions to guerilla warfare tactics. You can learn to shoot at a range, but what you learn to do with that weapon during boot camp or on your first engagement is a totally different animal.
@@jckingsley I am not the one who confused a noun with a verb. You idea is that ninjutstu is only a way to modify other techniques. That very much limits what ninjutstu is.
@@PeregrinTintenfish The limitations perceived and any confusion are both your own. A noun is something that is confined by its own definition. A verb is a thing of action and contains a myriad of uses and applications (including those you would call "noun-ish"). This is the end of my debate on the matter though. Believe as you like. Have a nice day. (By the way... I just Ninjutsu'd this conversation.)
@@jckingsley Why would I say "noun-ish"? Don't put weird neologisms in my mouth. It isn't ninjutstu if I see you doing it. This shows that I was right, and that you don't understand what ninjutstu is. A lot of ninjutstu stands on its own. You can't just add ninjutstu to something by adding trickery.
Your work is a threat to many peoples livelihood. That's why most are gonna tell you nope. Hayes is and has been banned by the Bujinkan for years now. Maybe talk with Kacem? I still love all my old Hayes books.
If you do make a video with Stephen Hayes and discuss ninjutsu, please *please* make sure you make time discuss and examine the Kata - and SPECIFICALLY the kata from *Togakure Ryu*. Until you grasp that particular nettle anthony and actually discuss those specific kata then this dumpster fire will keep burning
SKH has basically based his life on the assumption that the Hatsumi/Takamatsu story is true. To be fair, many people have done the same. SKH has nothing to gain by discussing what Antony has brought to light. No Takamatsu derived groups do. I would love for Antony to be able to talk to SKH, Hatsumi, Tamarura, ect, but it is like trying to tell someone that their religious beliefs are not historically accepted as fact. People often don’t want to accept these things. Both identity and money are at stake for them. The irony is that SKH has learned Buddhism, and one of the main focuses of that is to see the difference between truth and illusion. Antony has presented the truth.
A child of a warrior house could have theoretically begun martial arts training at the age of 7 or so. By the time he was 14-16 he would be on the battlefield (probably performing paige duties, but not only). Musashi's dueling career took place mostly in his twenties but began when he was 13. There were 30, 40, 50 and even 60 year olds on the battlefield, and those were the guys with the most experience. Both Miyamoto Musashi and Yagyu Munenori said that they didn't become masters of Heiho until they reached the age of 50, so no Antony, you are wrong about the young guys being the best. Even John Danaher, the world's foremost BJJ coach said that the best BJJ masters are in their 70s. The older guys were masters, so you are wrong, just because there were talented young warriors doesn't change that fact. "Beware of old men in a profession where men usually die young."
@@AntonyCummins Best BJJ masters are in their 70s =/= 70 year olds would continually beat young fighters. Don't put words in my mouth. John Danaher specifically qualified this, and I didn't think I would even have to mention this because I didn't think it needed to be explained, that 70-year-old masters have the best technical knowledge, but they are too old for the ring, those are still the guys you go to to learn. You said pretty much the same thing in your video so I am flabbergasted how you could misconstrue what I said. That being said, there were plenty of 40 and 50 year olds on a Samurai battlefield.
It must be heart breaking to discover that something you've devoted your whole life too is a fraud. I know I'm pissed off loosing just 5 years. Oh and all the money they sucked out of me. I'm sure a court case could be made.
Interesting logics, but SKH being a form of Japanese Ju Jitsu?…I left studying Japanese Ju Jitsu to study To-Shin Do and it’s quite an adjustment to try to learn. NOT the same AT ALL. I will say that I definitely prefer To-Shin Do over Japanese Ju Jitsu by a large margin. Is it better?…no…it’s just more ideal to me. Is SKH’s style better than yours?…no…to each their own. I tend to really like it though and they do teach us the differences between historical Ninjitsu and modern day To-Shin Do. There are a lot of similarities, but there are tweaks and we’re not being trained to be assassins. To-Shin Do is much closer to Ninjitsu than it is Japanese Ju Jitsu. I say just study what u study…u will never understand what you’re not studying, with all respect.
@@AntonyCummins Maybe not in 1500s feudal Japan times, but you’re arguing the fact that a modern day form of hand to hand combat (Tai-Jitsu) doesn’t exist. There’s styles that are derived from others and exist today that we don’t even know about. People argue that your style is bs, but I’m not narrow minded to believe that. Your style obviously exists and I think what you’re doing is awesome. Just know that in To-Shin Do, they tell u that this is not the old traditional Ninjitsu, but a modern revised version designed for modern times, but still uses a lot of Ninjitsu principles and structure that have been tweaked for changes in wardrobes, body build differences, defense on pavement vs ground or rice fields. I would try to fully understand a style before u try to critique it. Just as the only people that are critiquing your style are those that have not studied it to even have a say so in it. U and I both know that a real martial art isn’t completely open book…u gotta be involved into it to really know what it really consists of. I can’t and won’t say that your style is fiction. That’d be entirely ignorant of me when I have no personal experience there to back that up. It’s okay to be curious and question things. I’m not against u, brother. We just study different arts and that’s okay. But, at the end of the day, I’m sure u can agree with me that GoDai is real!!
I believe how you went wrong is that assuming that Takamatsuden does not have some of that which you are going on about. I have been in the Bujinkan for roughly 20 years and i believe that it is true. I also believe that just by happenstance the ninjutsu elements have been combined with the jujutsu elements over theh last 200 yrs. Remember that "actual ninja" haven't been operating in quite some time. Hatsumi sensei probably not claim that the ninjutsu we are learning is 1600s ninjutsu but ninjutsu as represented through the proliferation of a few hundred years and with less understanding of how it was in those times. Words over time take on new meanings. This is also true with ninjutsu. I truly believe Takamatsu sensei. I believe his definitions and yours disagree, if that makes sense.
You can’t make something real that’s not real… if you want to make something effective do judo BJJ and Kykushin karate… put the pajamas on, and you will actually be able to fight! Lol
@thejugador I would say both.. the Japanese people make fun of it.. mostly Westerners getting conned… the history of the ninja is a myth for the most part. It’s all nonsense!
@thejugador it’s all bullshit… hatsumi was a decent judoka from what I’ve heard. I believe he was also in karate black belt, which makes perfect sense. because he absolutely possesses some skills… but still a con artist, selling a scam to mostly western or whoever else he selling it to.
@@AntonyCummins That's not what Anthony Cummings said He's miss quoting him. Anthony Cummings never said ninjutsu didn't exist, and what he teaches is traditional historically accurate ninjutsu, not a martial art fighting style. Anthony Cummings has repeatedly said and stated ninjutsu is not a hand-to-hand combat system. Also as far as people not being able to make anything up You ever hear of Star wars? I hate to break it to you but that shit was completely made up. Your neighbor chopping an apple on somebody's stomach is just a parlor trick It's not skills and a damn sure doesn't mean he's a ninja. Bring me back on..... Here we go again.
![[SFM] Risky Recital](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RzNkY1_Nk3o/mqdefault.jpg)
You can see the interview here
ruclips.net/video/hovm3NWnUYw/видео.html
Thanks for sharing the video. This clears a lot of things up!
@@VikingSamurai If Anthony does make a video he NEEDS to address the kata from "Togakure ryu". This more than anything is the absolute crux of the issue. Not the jujutsu like kata from Gyokko or Koto ryu that is frequently is the basis for Taijutsu in the Bujinkan which is what I suspect anthony was exposed to - It's Togakure ryu and its Ninja specific kata that is the real issue. In a way I'm annoyed with Anthony. Anthony has done sterling historical work . His Chikamatsu book is absolute gold for example. But it's annoying that he refuses to examine in depth Togakure ryu and its physical mechanics, because its here and only here that the Bujinkan claim lies.
BTW I'm not a ninjutsu practitioner. I have no dog in this race. But there is a glaring hole in this whole argument that Anthony needs to address.
Ninjutsu is real but not the way people think. The way people see ninja is the all black clad dudes. Watch Stephen Hayes vs Navy Seals or SF dudes. It not only hilarious but an amazing demonstration of ninjutsu. Being “seen yet unseen”. It’s f*ing amazing!
Absolutely! I admire your posture of always being open to dialogue and respectful. I even remember you talking about that it is important for a samurai to present himself properly and always being trustworthy. Valuable teachings that everyone can apply on a daily basis.
Good stuff, thanks for clarifying things!
Thank you very much, very good that you always convey the whole thing in a very polite and respectful way. Thank you.
I appreciate what you do very much ... the shadows we have adored for so many years in the 9 ryuha need to answer to the light of truth. I am ex bujinkan and agree with many sides of your opinion on not just the history of the arts..but the unfortunate lack of efficiency that is taught as well. As a true budoka of fighting arts.. it is disappointing. I love the 9ryuha.. but I am a serious martial artist with 35 years experience, and have pro fighters out of my school. I cannot stand by students having a false sense of security or worshiping rank more than experience and ability. Please continue your path.. because it helps so many who are seeking truth in budo. Arigato, buyu OSS
Great discussion. Really admire your respectful and academic approach, Anthony!
A really good discussion. A lot of people get confused or don't know the origins of the Samurais, Shinobis, Warrior Monks... teachings because of the culture or language barriers. For instance in this video you were talking about the different teachings scrolls. Some I knew most I didn't but when you explained what it was in English then I knew what you were talking about. Now maybe I heard it before from your channel or other sources but I can't recognize it because I don't speak Japanese only very few words.
Nice video. Most people don’t understand that training of samurai would be similar in objective as basic military training today, but they would train several hours a day just like basic training today and be ready for the battlefield as soon as possible during times of war. During times of relative peace your focus is, or should be to be prepared for when war breaks out!
@thejugador I don’t think they hide the fact that it is! Mr Cummins has also been trying to clear the air that said schools teach samurai military arts, and ninjutsu is but one facet of military action. The samurai had a special division of espionage and unconventional warfare which we call Ninjutsu, or basically the way to hide, or infiltrate! Scrolls with this specialized information would obviously had been kept on a need to know basis! Each military school would teach 18 military arts, of various weapons and strategies, and ninjutsu was but one!
Hey Antony... would love to see ya do some seminars or something along those lines in Oz. (Australia). Really enjoying your books mate, and the channel is a lot fun. Your positive outlook in researching the reality of ninjutsu is so interesting. Great work.
I really hope @VikingSamurai can pull this together to have both @AntonyCummins and Stephen K. Hayes in a joint interview. That would be amazing! Antony's concept for such an event sounds like a great idea.
That will be a great conversation to watch and listen to.
I trained in the Booj for a few years way back in the 90s. (I was a 12 y.o. kids in the early 80s who discovered the SKH books and fantasized about being a Ninja.) Anyway, I had just 2 years of HS wrestling to my name. I'll never forget being at a seminar and being paired up with a very high ranking black belt and absolutely man-handling him in grappling. I loved my teacher and classmates but that started getting me thinking that there was a lot missing to what was being taught. Plus, all we did were super-slow "punches" in class and I knew I was not learning anything that I could use to defend myself. I eventually dropped out when the UFC started exploding, and I eventually started with BJJ in mid-200s. And I felt like I was home (because I was always partial to grappling). I believe the UFC has settled the "striker v. grappler" debate and don't care to get into it, but I can state without hesitation that if all a martial artist knows is Bujinkan or To-Shin Do, et al, and have not devoted any serious time to grappling and ground fighting, then they will get smoked every single time. I will bet any amount of money every single time on a BJJ relative beginner against any of the Ninjas who know nothing but posing with a sword or punching in slow motion...
Excellent.. Ive always found what you do and don't do. Very clear.
Talking to each other cannot be a bad thing. History meets tradition meets a Viking Samurai.
The Ninja vs. Samurai was a Cowboys vs Indians fantasy that Hayes put into his books. There is no spy school that operates apart form the military (aka government). You can look at NSA, CIA, etc and while they do not operate just a military platoon, they are funded and operate as part of the government. Does reg military "capture"? Yes. Does special forces "capture"? Yes. Does CIA/KGB "capture"? Yes. "I'll be sure to check out the interview. Would love to see you both talk about the future of Ninjutsu. If you are not learning modern lockpicking, modern electronics, modern social engineering...you are not a modern Ninja.
Mochizuki Chiyome?
Or are you speaking of a modern day organization? If that's the case, preach on.
The "hand-to-hand" of Togakure-ryū is from the jūjutsu/taijutsu of the Toda family, AKA Gyokko-ryū kosshijutsu and Kotō-ryū koppōjutsu. There never was kata in ninjutsu until Toda Shinryūken systematized the kata for the young Takamatsu since Toda Shinryūken was so old as a quick method of transmission. This is why some of the santō-tonkō-gata look like some of the kata from Gyokko-ryū and Kotō-ryū. It is the same for Kumogakure-ryū. Gyokushin-ryū ninjutsu has Gyokushin-ryū koppōjutsu and jūjutsu as it's taijutsu.
Hope this makes sense to you and Bujinkan members as well as most don't understand this.
Again there never was hand-to-hand kata in Togakure-ryū ninjutsu until Toda Shinryūken systematized it based on his family's jūjutsu. Only thing that existed was hajutsu-no-hō and we don't know what that was.
Ninjutsu only ever had insert_name-no-hō, never kata. Ninjutsu is outside the normal line of transmission of kata found in koryū bujutsu.
The source of this is from Hatsumi-sensei via a conversation from a top Brit living in Japan. Same information was told to a Israeli friend of mine via Harada-shihan via Hatsumi-sensei.
This will upset more BJK members than you Ant but oh well. It's still old and it's still traditional with an official line of transmission and that is what matters.
Still old and traditional? So now Toda is said to have originally done this when it has been said that it is not 34 generations old handed to Takamatsu. You are still taking the word of Hatsumi or the Brit who told you or whatever. Toda has not been proven to even exist, let alone do any of what has been stated. Did Toda also suggest to add comic book characters as part of the history to protect the real names? This story just keeps getting more and more incredulous. The goal post keeps moving.
@@tgold8422 yes
@@ericweil8843 not sure what yes it to, but I suppose it means there is no breaking news that anything in the Buj has been authenticated as of yet.
@@tgold8422 no but if you want to assume all of what you said, good on you!
@@ericweil8843 your condescending tone and unwarranted smugness is typical of many self righteous Buj cult members, however, I am not assuming anything, I can only go off the claims that Takamatsu/Hatsumi/Buj have made, albeit with absolutely no proof whatsoever. I was just seeing if there was any new information. It would be refreshing, but since there is no clarification by you or anyone so far who has felt the need to tell the world about these wild claims without good reason, it is going to have to be perceived to the world of rational people as a faith based charlatan led martial art/religious cult as it always has been.
It would be really intriguing to see you both interviewed.
Takamatsu school is probably not a koryu, most likely he made it up but hey all schools were made up at some point. The only thing that matters is if the teachings work
@@Aneas10 my knowledge on him it's a little rusty but if I remember correctly he knew some legit martial arts like judo for example. And fought in China both in a war and for some criminal organization.
It's not simple to do research on him, first there's the language barrier, second a lot of the knowledge is in Hatsumi hands and we all know how he changes things constantly.
@@signor_zuzzu true that. But about Dr Hatsumi changing things; well as Soke it's entirely his prerogative.
What if someone was a talented martial artist, and studied history, but over time, and through some kind of delusion disorder, really thought themselves to be a grandmaster of the oldest tradition(s)? Maybe he really did believe he was a grandmaster/soke after he had pieced together parts of history. Who know? But this would actually explain a lot.
@@tgold8422 what's a grandmaster?
@@R.Merkhet as in the colloquial term that many western people use to refer to a head of a martial arts organization. (Like you didn’t know but whatever)
I've always wanted to know, "Ok, Takamatsu wasn't teaching ninjutsu, fine. He was teaching _something_ , so what's the story behind _that_ ?" And I won't accept a generic answer like "old budo". There's a story that needs to be uncovered and told...if possible.
The thing is ... he was teaching ninjutsu. But people can believe whatever they want.
Takamatsu used what he knows in China and was involved in espionage activities.
@@punisher7772 cool answer. You sound like a Washington DC spin-doctor. "What were our agents doing there?" Asked the press Corp. "Well espionage, of course. Next question please."
@@R.Merkhet if that was meant as a compliment then thanks, because it's the truth.
@@punisher7772 👍👌
@@tgold8422 the same evidence that any other martial art out there claims
Fascinating stuff. Very interesting indeed! :)
Thank you for sharing and inspiring us all to train hard and smart
Great discussion Anthony!
I'm glad you changing in some way your narrative about Hatsumi...
And invite Sean Askew.
He's got an interesting perspective as well.
I always thought Bujinkan said the hand to hand is Taijutsu...only a part of 'Ninjutsu' and that the entire system is 'Ninjutsu'.
I would love to see both of you get together in a video or seminar! :)
Me too
I really like the explanation for is the school and teacher any good. See, I agree the teacher may not look like an intimidating person but they might show a high level of skill and knowledge on the topic of what they teach. Thus looking at if you would win a fight against them can be a factor but it's not the only one.
Would be great to see you two talk. Both articulate and educated.
Anthony, you remind me of the Steve Irwin, the crocodile hunter except with Samurai instead of crocodiles. The Samurai Hunter.
Haha great
Cant recall now what video it was, but you mentioned a scroll that covered how to observe people to study them or something. I have autism and I want to learn that scroll as a starting point and because I think it will help me navigate being in public. What book of yours contains that scroll?
Iga and Koka Skills had a section like this. Read the Monographs by Ben Cardall. Good luck.
When I go to a "Ninjutsu" Dojo, I want to learn a good mix of martial Arts that just work. e.g. the best Jiu Jitsu techniques, strikes and kicks, stances and distance, some grappling, rolling, body movement, and occasionally some weapons training. I certainly don't want to learn about Shintoism/Buddhism beyond very few basics like the 9 Handforms and the pattern to deny demons, but I'd put it in a Christian context as a Catholic. I also don't wanna learn old Japanese Military tricks how to build bombs and set fires and do espionage, but it's good to have these available in books, which you provide. I certainly would enjoy you and Stephen Hays talking about that in a video. I think Stephen should put together a few books for a "Ninjutsu" hand-combat training manual, basically what to train to get from "white to black belt", and you should add your philosophical/military stuff, and we might get the best and most fun "MMA+" formula (minus the usual Ninjutsu BS).
It's like your friend is sleeping next to you snoring😂
LoL, dogs looking around like, ' who the hell is Dad talking to'? Haha
This be neat I love it thank you Anthony 😊
I cant believe that the gunyaku yoho still hasnt been found
Anthony, first and foremost, thank you for your effort. I studied Taijutsu for 6 years from a very unique and passionat teacher back in the early 90s in California. He was a man from Israel who studied in Japan during the late 70s and 80s with Hatsumi and left to study with Tanemura after the break. He had his reasons. The greatest impact I got from him was his commitment to teaching self preservation through an art that he made effective. It was not his livelyhood. He taught out of passion. However, he did not teach the espionage and special kwoledge of what you brought to light through your translation of the Bansenshukai. He had his reaons and exlained it to us. I found his reasons sound...safety being the main...lots of crazy people in the States. His expression of Taijuts helped me as a security officer during my many situations in the States. His philosophy of the art helped me the most during my youth...the little things he always said....don't forget the small things. As a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practitioner, those words helped me the most. Wen pn a tangent...I remeber us at the dojo learning Taijutsu from sensei; we wanted to learn the skills from the Bansenshukai...most of us wanted that. Now, that you have made it available, many have reacted negatively to your effort. In simple words...thank you mate. Cheers.
Maybe, if you and Stephen Hayes can agree to publish a "white to black belt" basic manual series for "Ninjutsu", you should call it something else, like Shinobi-Taijutsu, since the term Ninjutsu is so loaden with BS already. I think a Coop for this would be best, since without the Japanese "Ninja" history that you researched so well, it would just be another MMA style, but it needs this Ninja connection to be more fun. After all Ninjas are COOL, just not the way many Dojos teach it.
Hello Antony! I hope you are well.
I don't know if it was a lack of attention on my part, but I would like to know if you've already researched something about Amatsu Tatara. Within the "Ninjutsu" Takamatsu Den these documents are cited. The curious thing is that this appears inside a book that contains documents about the Kuki Clan. They seem very interesting to me, but few people talk about it, and it seems to me that they are more interested in the medicinal part of Amatsu Tatara.
On the other hand, Antony would like to know if you can already analyze the documents that are in the possession of ninjutsu masters. To be able to check if they are really real, old, if they have a connection with some part of history, etc. By the way, was there already a willingness on the part of these masters to authorize the analysis of these possible documents?
Thank you very much and good luck with your work.
Hi, I have had a scant look with yoshie and it went in the pile of very dubious and not worth extra time. See if kacem would do it.
Your dog entered like a NINJA‼️
What's the north star of your sun/moon analogy? Perhaps our enduring direction, or aspiration what we are surviving for. Wonder what Andromeda will be like for the "ninja" of the future.. thanks for the video.
Cute dog! Is that the one that always snores in the background? 😁
Yes that terror
Hayes’ “misunderstanding” about your views on ninjutsu appears to be a deflection. Hayes seems to be a stand up guy, but your research and opinions challenge his entire legacy and business model. At the end of the day, he has a business to run and a reputation to uphold. Unlikely he will collaborate with you.
Especially his view about the sickle and chain not ever existing when you take into account all the talk about body movement with weapons 😂
You should come to New Zealand and do a training session/seminar with the Ninjutsu practitioners here :D
I guess I've been misspelling Stephen name! Nice videos
I don't really get the surprise here. When I started training ninjutsu, it was explained very early on that ninjutsu is just being used as an umbrella term for its recognition.
We call it ninpo. Ninjutsu is not a martial art, the arts are samurai fighting arts, all within the various schools.
I was under the impression that this is common knowledge.
You were the only one then. The rest of us were told Ninpo taijutsu was ninja martial arts.
@AntonyCummins Maybe that's how a lot of Bujinkan schools did it, where they really didn't explain all the various schools. We periodically re-explained where certain techniques were from, like Gikan Ryu, Gyokko Ryu, Koto Ryu, which is the majority of techniques we practiced. I remember the first time Sensei showed us techniques from Komogakure. Maybe it's a Genbukan thing, or maybe I just lucked out with my teacher.
Either way, your info is appreciated, I hope. Especially for those that are just interested in being good martial artists.
@@solidsnx Hello there! Just want to let you know that Antony doesn't receive notifications for replies to his replies so he didn't see your follow up comment, he only receives notifications for new comments; just a heads up!
Yes, I've read some other books which pointed out that "ninjutsu" was not primarily a "martial art" - it was a lifestyle of survival and espionage and military. Which, as you say, is like the sun - survival in particular covers a lot of ground, as the modern-day "prepper" community have demonstrated, not to mention espionage and military science. One problem I would have, however, is that no military today does what the samurai did - instead, we have artillery, combined arms, operational planning, etc. - stuff that Andrea Martyanov talks about in his videos, stuff that's going on in Ukraine today. So unless one includes that stuff into a modern-day version of "samurai", a lot is left out. Not even "special ops" stuff covers that stuff - that's a subset of military science. As for espionage, today you'd have to include hacking and computer security to be a "ninja".
Perhaps the term "ninjutsu" should be limited to the specific philosophy and attitude that encompasses the various activities of survival and espionage and military action, rather than the activities themselves.
Did ninjas use Taijutsu when it comes to hand in hand combat?
If not, what did they use?
Yes they did
@@AntonyCummins ok but it wasnt bujinkan taijutsu right? It must have been something different.
Anyone can argue anything but that doesn't mean your argument has merit. You have been presenting the historical record over the last ten years (plus). In my view, the only argument that would hold any water involves comparing your research with other research of the same caliber. A scroll that counters your research would have merit. Saying a scroll exists without verification means nothing. Fact versus fact not fact versus opinion. Further, you bring a holistic attitude to the table. Because you have an open mind, you make room for everyone. Bringing Mr. Hayes into a direct discussion would do much for everyone interested in this topic. It would make one hell of a webinar. There is plenty of middle ground to go forward. I hope he responds.
A few things bothered me. Viking said something about “that guy Hatsumi”. Sounded a bit rude. Pronounced it Bugeekan. Neither could pronounce Antony’s name correctly.
Plus, neither really explained Antony’s research shows that taijutsu wasn’t specific to “ninja”.
Just my 2¥ worth……..
the persistence of peace from family towards society is defencable in all furure existances
UYESS!!! plus stpehen Hayes YESS..Have been searching for truth and knowledge! have both of your books and am slowly learning more. Please discuss To-Shin-Do) Have been following on his site slowly along with mucking about through japanese articles and translating them onine.. what is the next..piece? Apologies..Thanks!! Much Respect!!
pardon me you're's lol meaning both of your fellows books ((not all)) just didnt want to be impolite (know you have written mad book sir!)
Interesting video. Now Anthony I simply must ask you a question that has puzzled me for some time. You say that the scrolls and all the information that history has left behind on Ninjutsu that we have gathered until now, doesn´t mention anything about hand to hand combat. OK I´m with you so long. Now would you also say that a person trained in all aspects of Ninjutsu is unable to do hand to hand combat or to fight? I ask the question like this because I think the answer will be interesting. Maybe I´ve not asked correctly, but I think you know what´s going on in my mind. ;)
I´ll look forward to hear your answer....
I have answered this question a 100 times in many many videos. yes they could fight. No one said they could not.
@@AntonyCummins I´m sorry Anthony if I´ve overlooked this. But now you´ve eliminated all doubt I might have had and you´re still regarded with respect and I still have hight thoughts about you. Your answer was that of a wise man. Thankyou for your directness. I hope it made it worth answering the question once again. ;)
Hey Antony I was wondering why focus on swordsmenship rather then jujutsu, wouldn't make more sense today since we can't carry a sword.
I’m not doing it for today I’m doing it for history
Hi Anthony,
Good Video. As a teacher, you are correct and I may be wrong in the translation, but would the versions of Japanese Jujutsu taught by westerners might be classed as Gaijin Gendai Jujutsu?
Probably other confusions are the Brazilian Jujutsu compared to Japanese Jujutsu.
Regards
Steve
That would need a native on that but sounds like a good topic
Man I see that you have like a rather biased view of Takamatsu and I understand it also became a whole mythology around himself but there are several current books about the life of Takamatsu, I suggest you take a look at them, and spoiler no he was not a writer fond of ancient manuscripts on martial arts.
It's simple. Japan had wars, therefore needed spies and assassins, spies needed training, as we all know Japanese folks are very methodical and precise, so they developed methods and tactics and training and equipment to support this job. It existed all of it the whole system, as I said we know the Japanese are very systematic. There was some kind of hand to hand jutsu, there had to be, BUT what these guys like Anthony want is something to grab for and sell it for money...he is benefiting from ninjutsu, that is what put him on the world map....it is hard to sell a product that has no roots and that is an economical issue here. Practicality is what we have to be focused on as warriors, not tradition, respect it but evolve. MMA is now what ninjutsu was back then...use what u have and make it work for you. I am not historian I am warrior, been in 3 wars and survived, enemy don't care about are u following Bujikan or Pikachu ryu, he just wants to end u. So to conclude if you are historian I will tell u for sure that you will never find the roots of it because it was hidden and passed mostly verbally, but if you want to live a life like a certified ;) ninja that uses all these skills to better his existence and protect himself and people around than just train and practice.....and include new skills that are needed now in this era. This bla bla behavior is for geeks and weaklings.
Masaaki Hatsumi never claimed his hand-to-hand combat style is ninjutsu, he always referred to hand-to-hand combat as taijutsu, not ninjutsu, and never claimed Bujinkan fighting styles are exclusively practiced by ninjas, some Bujinkan fighting styles are of samurai origin like Kukishin-ryū, and some are of Chinese origin like Shinden Fudo-ryū which is one of the styles studied by Edward William Barton-Wright, the founder of Bartitsu, and Edward William Barton-Wright has nothing to do with Bujinkan but they use the same fighting style, so in Bujinkan, the hand-to-hand combat is not ninjutsu it's just one of the Skiles of ninja and is not exclusively for the ninjas, but when we talk about skills of stealth and espionage and surviving and even meditation, this is referred in Bujinkan as ninpo, but the problem is when the western people went to learn the ninjutsu from Masaki they weren't interested in ninpo they were just interested in taijutsu the hand-to-hand combat, they took that to the west and they presented the taijutsu as ninjutus, so I don't blame Masaaki Hatsumi on this miss-representation of ninjutsu, I blame his western students, if you watch his old videos you will see so much ninjutsu skills of stealth and infiltration, but later Masaaki realized that people are not interested in these stuff, people are interested in how to fight with fancy moves, so he start focusing on teaching taijutsu more than ninpo.
That is not true. He says ninjutsu countless times in both Japanese and English and his books are full of examples
@@AntonyCummins
the word ninjutsu is a big umbrella of many skills, so its meaning changes depending on the context, I don't know which type of book by Hatsumi you have read if you have read his general book about ninjutsu or a philosophical book, of course, you will find the word ninjutsu used in a general way but if you read a training book it's a different story, the training books talk about the details and make a clear distinction between ninjutsu and taijutsu but without separation be cause taijutsu is part of ninjutsu, in page 9 of the book GRANDMASTER'S BOOK OF NINJA TRAINING, Masaaki Hatsumi said: "The Taijutsu that I teach is founded in freedom, and the feeling that we are looking for arises out of freedom of movement. This freedom is so important. A person who does not appreciate how precious freedom is cannot understand my taijutsu" as you can see he refers to his martial art as Taijutsu, not a Ninjutsu, Bujinkan system is based on 9 schools, and seven of them are purely Taijutsu not Ninjutsu at all, and Hatsumi always talks about these 7 schools as samurai and chines martial arts, used by both ninjas and non-ninjas, there are only 3 schools in Bujinkan that use ninjutsu and two of them are a mix of ninjutsu and taijutsu, so Hatsumi called them ninpo taijutsu to make a distinction with other taijutsu schools.
hope now it's clear, and wish you a wonderful day.
Sorry but I consider Natori Ryu just another Ninja cult like Bujinkan.
You have a charismatic leader and an unassailable doctrine. Two ingredients of a cult.
I like your books and learn from you but you lost me when you started Natori Ryu.
I don't think I've misunderstood what you have been saying, I get it.
This would be great
I’m sure that they were Chinese assassins and/or spies. I’m curious as to what they were called.
HELLO TO ALL NINJA AND SAMURAI ENTHUSIASTS!!! ON BEHALF OF ANTONY CUMMINS I WOULD LIKE TO INFORM YOU THAT HE DOESN'T RECEIVE NOTIFICATIONS FOR REPLIES TO HIS REPLIES. HE ONLY RECEIVES NOTIFICATIONS FOR NEW COMMENTS. IF YOU ARE NEW TO THE CHANNEL ANTONY WOULD LIKE YOU TO START BY WATCHING HIS 2020 DOCUMENTARY.
Man I still find it dumb to say that a family "ended" just because they have only women.
It already is dumb this practice of women having to take the surname of the husband(but never the opposite), but to say a family ends just because there's only women is extra dumb because it makes it seem that women were never really considered part of a family since they would lose their surname in favor of the husband's.
So only men would be considered heirs or something only because they got to keep their surname.
So much for "being a family".
It is a different concept of "being a family" I read a quote about how a cousin to the sixth degree couldn't really be considered related. Also, in Japan a man could take his wife's name. It usually happened when a woman married a man of lower social rank. He would then be adopted into her family and become her rank.
Hi Antony! After I see the Stephen K. Hayes interview, I don’t think he is going to change his opinion about what he learned in Japan, and the things he is doing, because he is to set in his ways. Instead I agree with him about what he says about the techniques taught in the Bujinkan, that Takamatsu is not made them, obviously he is get them from somewere. Maybe Takamatsu change a little bit of the way them are practiced, thing that is obviously in what Hatsumi did. Probably if the techniques taught in Bujinkan were practical in the past. But, here is a point that many of Bujinkan students don’t understand is that ninja and samurai in the past do these things to extreme, not like a weekend jaunt, or a gathering, for social interaction. today many of Bujinkan students and instructors alike talk about super ninja atheletes ans skills,yet they themselves demonstrate a poor example of an athelte. Not only they are out of shape and sticking to unrealistic combat scenarious, but they are also use a history ( this one is probably made up) as an excuse.
You're free to your opinions.
@@adandyguyinspace5783 Of course I am!
Ninjutsu is a verb basically. It isn't a thing alone. It's a thing you DO to something else. I can learn Kenjutsu, and then I can "Ninjutsu" that Kenjutsu. What comes out of that is not going to be the entire curriculum that I studied as Kenjutsu. It will be a refined or streamlined version of it that represents more applicable functions to guerilla warfare tactics. You can learn to shoot at a range, but what you learn to do with that weapon during boot camp or on your first engagement is a totally different animal.
Ninjutstu is not a verb. It means stealth technique.
@@PeregrinTintenfish Not a big reader, huh?
@@jckingsley I am not the one who confused a noun with a verb.
You idea is that ninjutstu is only a way to modify other techniques. That very much limits what ninjutstu is.
@@PeregrinTintenfish The limitations perceived and any confusion are both your own. A noun is something that is confined by its own definition. A verb is a thing of action and contains a myriad of uses and applications (including those you would call "noun-ish"). This is the end of my debate on the matter though. Believe as you like. Have a nice day. (By the way... I just Ninjutsu'd this conversation.)
@@jckingsley Why would I say "noun-ish"? Don't put weird neologisms in my mouth. It isn't ninjutstu if I see you doing it. This shows that I was right, and that you don't understand what ninjutstu is. A lot of ninjutstu stands on its own. You can't just add ninjutstu to something by adding trickery.
Good vedlo subcribed seamus
Good looking bulldog. He/she needs a little ninja outfit. Perhaps samurai even depending on its attitude.
His name is bolt and he is a bat ninja
Your work is a threat to many peoples livelihood. That's why most are gonna tell you nope. Hayes is and has been banned by the Bujinkan for years now. Maybe talk with Kacem? I still love all my old Hayes books.
If you do make a video with Stephen Hayes and discuss ninjutsu, please *please* make sure you make time discuss and examine the Kata - and SPECIFICALLY the kata from *Togakure Ryu*. Until you grasp that particular nettle anthony and actually discuss those specific kata then this dumpster fire will keep burning
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SKH has basically based his life on the assumption that the Hatsumi/Takamatsu story is true. To be fair, many people have done the same. SKH has nothing to gain by discussing what Antony has brought to light. No Takamatsu derived groups do. I would love for Antony to be able to talk to SKH, Hatsumi, Tamarura, ect, but it is like trying to tell someone that their religious beliefs are not historically accepted as fact. People often don’t want to accept these things. Both identity and money are at stake for them. The irony is that SKH has learned Buddhism, and one of the main focuses of that is to see the difference between truth and illusion. Antony has presented the truth.
Nice comment
A child of a warrior house could have theoretically begun martial arts training at the age of 7 or so. By the time he was 14-16 he would be on the battlefield (probably performing paige duties, but not only). Musashi's dueling career took place mostly in his twenties but began when he was 13. There were 30, 40, 50 and even 60 year olds on the battlefield, and those were the guys with the most experience. Both Miyamoto Musashi and Yagyu Munenori said that they didn't become masters of Heiho until they reached the age of 50, so no Antony, you are wrong about the young guys being the best. Even John Danaher, the world's foremost BJJ coach said that the best BJJ masters are in their 70s. The older guys were masters, so you are wrong, just because there were talented young warriors doesn't change that fact.
"Beware of old men in a profession where men usually die young."
There is no way on this planet that 70 year olds would continually beat young fighters. Not at all.
@@AntonyCummins
Best BJJ masters are in their 70s =/= 70 year olds would continually beat young fighters.
Don't put words in my mouth. John Danaher specifically qualified this, and I didn't think I would even have to mention this because I didn't think it needed to be explained, that 70-year-old masters have the best technical knowledge, but they are too old for the ring, those are still the guys you go to to learn. You said pretty much the same thing in your video so I am flabbergasted how you could misconstrue what I said.
That being said, there were plenty of 40 and 50 year olds on a Samurai battlefield.
It must be heart breaking to discover that something you've devoted your whole life too is a fraud. I know I'm pissed off loosing just 5 years. Oh and all the money they sucked out of me. I'm sure a court case could be made.
I want all of my allowance that I spent on the books and magazines refunded!
Actually it's Hatsumi we should be suing.
I thought this is a great reply
Kind of saw this coming
Interesting logics, but SKH being a form of Japanese Ju Jitsu?…I left studying Japanese Ju Jitsu to study To-Shin Do and it’s quite an adjustment to try to learn. NOT the same AT ALL. I will say that I definitely prefer To-Shin Do over Japanese Ju Jitsu by a large margin. Is it better?…no…it’s just more ideal to me. Is SKH’s style better than yours?…no…to each their own. I tend to really like it though and they do teach us the differences between historical Ninjitsu and modern day To-Shin Do. There are a lot of similarities, but there are tweaks and we’re not being trained to be assassins. To-Shin Do is much closer to Ninjitsu than it is Japanese Ju Jitsu. I say just study what u study…u will never understand what you’re not studying, with all respect.
There is no such thing as a ninja hand to hand system. It does not exist
@@AntonyCummins Maybe not in 1500s feudal Japan times, but you’re arguing the fact that a modern day form of hand to hand combat (Tai-Jitsu) doesn’t exist. There’s styles that are derived from others and exist today that we don’t even know about. People argue that your style is bs, but I’m not narrow minded to believe that. Your style obviously exists and I think what you’re doing is awesome. Just know that in To-Shin Do, they tell u that this is not the old traditional Ninjitsu, but a modern revised version designed for modern times, but still uses a lot of Ninjitsu principles and structure that have been tweaked for changes in wardrobes, body build differences, defense on pavement vs ground or rice fields. I would try to fully understand a style before u try to critique it. Just as the only people that are critiquing your style are those that have not studied it to even have a say so in it. U and I both know that a real martial art isn’t completely open book…u gotta be involved into it to really know what it really consists of. I can’t and won’t say that your style is fiction. That’d be entirely ignorant of me when I have no personal experience there to back that up. It’s okay to be curious and question things. I’m not against u, brother. We just study different arts and that’s okay. But, at the end of the day, I’m sure u can agree with me that GoDai is real!!
Ninjitsu not real? Did i just imagine Donatello as the greatest Bo staff master of all time then?
tolkien never invented real new langauges but mix match finnis grammar and iris grammar for his langues and mix and match roots its olmost
Yes but he constructed complex things
He invented new languages even if he was inspired by real languages.
To my limited wisdom . From what I understand ninja just took martial arts from everywhere and used it if it worked . What is he going on about 🙄
You know nothing, Stephen Hayes! 😋
I believe how you went wrong is that assuming that Takamatsuden does not have some of that which you are going on about. I have been in the Bujinkan for roughly 20 years and i believe that it is true. I also believe that just by happenstance the ninjutsu elements have been combined with the jujutsu elements over theh last 200 yrs. Remember that "actual ninja" haven't been operating in quite some time. Hatsumi sensei probably not claim that the ninjutsu we are learning is 1600s ninjutsu but ninjutsu as represented through the proliferation of a few hundred years and with less understanding of how it was in those times. Words over time take on new meanings. This is also true with ninjutsu. I truly believe Takamatsu sensei. I believe his definitions and yours disagree, if that makes sense.
It sounds logical but the change is too quick and only happens with one person. No other school did this
You can’t make something real that’s not real… if you want to make something effective do judo BJJ and Kykushin karate… put the pajamas on, and you will actually be able to fight! Lol
@thejugador I would say both.. the Japanese people make fun of it.. mostly Westerners getting conned… the history of the ninja is a myth for the most part. It’s all nonsense!
@thejugador it’s all bullshit… hatsumi was a decent judoka from what I’ve heard. I believe he was also in karate black belt, which makes perfect sense. because he absolutely possesses some skills… but still a con artist, selling a scam to mostly western or whoever else he selling it to.
My Sensei, @Master Ken, says this stuff was all invented by ten year old girls.. And ALWAYS restomp the groin.. always 🔥✊🏼👊🏼🖖🏻🇺🇸
Did you read my post where I corrected him to the viewers?
No not yet
@@AntonyCummins
That's not what Anthony Cummings said He's miss quoting him. Anthony Cummings never said ninjutsu didn't exist, and what he teaches is traditional historically accurate ninjutsu, not a martial art fighting style. Anthony Cummings has repeatedly said and stated ninjutsu is not a hand-to-hand combat system. Also as far as people not being able to make anything up You ever hear of Star wars? I hate to break it to you but that shit was completely made up. Your neighbor chopping an apple on somebody's stomach is just a parlor trick It's not skills and a damn sure doesn't mean he's a ninja. Bring me back on..... Here we go again.
Anthony is full of bs not even a historian no credibility