Are Tilke tracks all the same? A look at modern F1 circuits
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- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2024
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Hermann Tilke is the designer of every new Formula 1 track and mainly responsible for modifications to existing circuits. Some people hate him, some people love him - what's the big deal with Tilke's circuits. Here we have a light, easy look at the similarities between Tilke's tracks and ask - should someone else have a go?
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Kimi has the perfect description for Abu Dhabi “the first few turns are good, there after it is shit.”
@@thearsenallegend3703 ruclips.net/video/e3MFN-Qth6k/видео.html&feature=emb_title
From the F1 games, I actually really like the Abu Dhabi circuit, prob my top 3 with circuit of americas and mexico city. Weirdly I very much dislike Bahrain.
The 2nd half is too boring IMO; all 90° turns
TheBrass18 abu dhabi is good up to turn 5, then it is crap
No loop-da-loops, no cornering on walls, no half pipes, no convex lengths of track, no jumps of doom, no off road sections or corners that are deliberately wetted by sprinklers, no inversion tunnels or high speed bumps. Hermann Tilke is a pussy.
*F1 fans:* Tilke’s tracks are all the same.
*Most NASCAR tracks:* Ha! Amateurs.
Watkins Glen and Mosport: *Are we a joke to you?"
@@hecksters423 A yoke!
@@mayankvashisht6856 Love nascar at the glen
Pocono and Martinsville for example are wholly different beasts.
Wouldn’t Watkins glen be considered a “road circuit”?
Still waiting for that track design that has cars drive on the ceiling with downforce...
If i would be a designer and old enough, i would do it, hehe
The sign of a gr8 track is Martin Brundle asking for silence while he listens to the car’s engine note unchanging as the driver is good enough to stay flat out in a bend. Give me Spa!
hire the track designers from mario kart. They'd jump on that in a second
@@pepsiman9840 Just imagine the Rainbow Track irl, it would be fun to watch and the funeral companies of the countrie it was built in would boom
@@DerDoctor69 yeah, and what about mystery boxes? we trade in DRS for power ups lol
Sepang not on calender is such a travesty. Amazing track, crazy weather and exciting race.
All because of Singapore. The spectator decrease heavily.
@@gundam4596 The night race at Singapore looks cool on TV, but I'd rather have Sepang for its great racing.
Liked Tilkedromes: get removed from the calendar
Hated Tilkedromes: stays on the calendar for bloody forever
Why Malaysia why?😭😭
Well, at least COTA is still around
@@ivaneurope *_Knocks on wood_*
I know right Malaysia is one of if not his best track
Turkey :(
"Snaily boi" needs to be the official name of that Vietnam corner.
Would pay to see that happen
No
@@mihir1181 Haha lol that made me laugh
I much prefer "Knobhead Bend"
isn't that an ordinary round-about. Something similar was done in an ooooold track called Avus (Germany basically apiece of autobahn with one tight corner and one like that in Hanoi)
the old ''classic'' tracks weren't build to host F1.. they were build in general by the locals who used both public roads and followed the landscape upon adding/changing stuff. Spa is a great example for this. This is the difference which might be the issue with Tilke tracks is that they are purpose-build.. they aren't ''natural'' . Suzuka is another example in that Suzuka was originally a bike track for the 500cc class (MotoGP now). This is why the Casio-triangle chicane and the S's in sector 1 are as narrow as they are... they were made to fit bikes... not F1 cars.
yeap!!!!!! finally a REAAAAAL analisys not like this man who don't like F1 PURPOSE-BUILT design! for.... mm who knows "feel" all like the same?
Natural! That's the word I was looking for to describe great tracks
Sorry for replying 2 years later lol
Yup. The effect of Tilke tracks (built for f1) on motogp is mixed. Sepang is alright, just fine
.... the others are considered duds in that particular Tilke style. Circuits like cota feel unimaginative and computer designed especially compared to the older natural bike tracks like PI, Assen, Mugello etc..
F1 teams car settings data: 'Melbourne', 'Monaco', 'Monza', 'Spa', 'Suzuka', 'Silverstone'...'Tilkedrome'.
It would have been interesting to make a comparison to non-Tilke-circuits
Chain should do this next.
No shit. I'm not sure what the alternative to a "corner into corner into corner" track would be...What exactly does Chain Bear think is missing?
Agreed. As someone who’s new to F1 this video is helpful, but it doesn’t really clue me in on what might make these tracks better
He briefly says at the end what he likes. Tracks that fit in with the surroundings. All the boring tracks are dead flat. Natural elevation changes with blind corners that drop away are great.
Just a heads up.. Tilkes most hated on tracks are Yas Marinas and Sochi right(and to some extent Shanghai)? Now think a moment about the countries they are in, and what systems they are running... Meanwhile other tracks in regions that are politically different are well recieved because he has the land and the place and maybe even the will to build something cool for us to watch or play in the games like COTA, Buddh, Sepang. Okay Istanbul Park does not thoroughly fit into this categorization but you get the point right?
I vote for Chain Bear F1 to be the new F1 track designer
I stand with you
Honestly anything would be better than more Tilkedromes
@@monsieurboks A lot of people can put together some corners and call it a race track. Tilke is not F1's court track designer because he's considered to be making good race tracks. It's because he's very good at building all the track side facilities. Grand stands, team building etc. The FIA got standards and Tilke is the man who delivers those standard to whichever track he's assigned to.
@@the_kovic The only problem is that FIA's standards don't require the track to be actually good/interesting.
@@the_kovic Then have Tilke worry about all those trackside amenities and leave the actual track to someone else. We don't need another Sochi or Yas Marina.
Malaysia is a beautiful track in person. The whole track is in a big bowl. You can't see any of it until you enter the grounds. When you sit on the outside at turn 9 you can see through the grand stands to the other side and almost see the whole circuit. You get at least two braking points on either side to see overtaking. I saw F1 there in 2007 and motogp there in 2008. Beautiful track and gift store. I still have the circuit keychain and mini trophies.
The problem with his later turn-8 clone is they’re not turn-8 enough.
The original turn 8 was looooong.
Yeah, the turn 8 clone at COTA looks just like that: a failed clone. It's not long enough and it has only three apexes, when it's clear that the goal was to have 4 apexes. It leaves a bad taste in your mouth when you see how the kerbs are built and you realize that there are only 3 apexes. And that's a shame, because that whole section (from the back straight to the start/finish straight) is actually good for racing (btw I would add some elevation changes and some grass in the runoff areas, to make it look and feel like a mountain road, with those hairpins).
The buddh international turn 10 is actually quite long
Having driven at speed on COTA, I can tell you that turn is a load of fun. If it had 4 apexes, it would just be a clone.
And Austin is hilly, not mountainous. If you want a winding mountain road, they could’ve built a track in Denver or maybe Moab or Flagstaff.
Of course, the first time some driver flew off the track into a 1000 meter plummet to his death would put a damper on such things.
Please make a part 2 covering all the tracks Tilke played around with that didn't get covered in this video
And maybe a part 3 showing all (some) of the non-Tilke tracks and what makes them stylistically different. There's mention of Monaco, Spa, and Silverstone and their associated personalities, but an overview of specific turns would be super helpful for casual viewers like me.
@@marshallc6215 but you gotta split part three into part 3a and part 3b so you milk the trilogy as much as possible. If it works for Hollywood it works for chainbear
HermanGaming Don’t forget about the prequels. You got to have prequels nowadays.
Yes!
that's a very good idea. I'll be interested in Spa.
We need new F1 tracks to be designed in ms paint with a mouse with the free draw option
BadUploadScheduleツ Agreed
😂😂😂😂
Then we cant go over 50 km/h because it has not one single straight lol
@@michagrill9432 i draw some good freehanded tracks with many straights
We need loop-da-loops, cornering on walls, half pipes, convex lengths of track, jumps of doom, off road sections and corners that are deliberately wetted, inversion tunnels and high speed bumps. Thats what we need.
That "oh dear" perfectly encapsulates how Sochi feels.
Oh yeah woo yeah
In my opinion Brno has a very cool layout.
But only MotoGP uses it so far :(
I love it’s elevation change
It's not up to safety standards
@@IStMl yeah you’re right it’s only grade 2
And it always produces great racing in all 3 categories. It's 15m wide, so it matches Silverstone it sounds like.
sadly there ain't no money for motoracing in Czech Republic - and F1 is all about the money
"Artificial" springs to mind. No surprise though.
The great tracks all follow the landscape.
Elevation change is KEY.
That's why I never really liked the circuits in general (only liked the Mal GP and US GP of all shown) and somehow prefer the older ones, because they just feel natural in design, no mandatory parts of the track
I don't think elevation change is everything. Monza and Silverstone are both pretty flat and are very well loved circuits. But they have unique corners. Variety and uniqueness in corners is key, elevation changes can help a lot in making a unique corner.
@@chrisbduck1938 Monza is loved? Just because of its old layout and place, not because it is a good track
@@fixer10091994 Thx for saying what I didn't have the balls to. Monza's got like 3 great corners and the awesome Ascari chicane. But the first sector? ZZZZzzzzzzzz....
@@mitchell-wallisforce7859the first sector is really meh because it's 2 chicanes and a flat out turn. But the rest of the track is fantastic, it provides some fun racing and most importantly, it's different. Diversity is key. You need a bit of everything, like it or not, so each track has it's own insignia
Friendly reminder that Tavo Hellmund and Kevin Schwantz played major part with creating COTA layout. Tilke was only assisting.
Yet he took all the credit for the track, which is very douchy of him to do since Tavo and Kevin really did a great job designing a really good track that has somewhat identity but nobody said anything about them. All Tilke cares nowadays is making flashy buildings.
Stuart Taylor approves of your sage knowledge.
As do I, of course.
Yeah, they did about 80% of the design, as a result tilke should not get any credits for it being a good track
I hate cota
@@aydankhaliq2967 Mkay
"you can always look at the colour changing hotel if the race bores you"🤣 Burnnn🔥🔥
It's not that Tilke designs bad tracks, its the F1 officials that want and demand such tracks.
They're losing too many good circuits due to the huge costs of hosting them. Maybe F1/Liberty Media need to compromise on price.
Yeah these tracks are a legacy of the Bernie age of F1, good riddance!
@@mikespearwood3914 the fees that F1 asks are insane. It's short term profit mindset instead of looking at the long term quality and viability of the product.
@@frevazz3364 When Capitalism virus invaded F1, their races are nothing but snoozefest.
@@mikespearwood3914 I mean they lost India bcz of hosting costs and a little govt BS... A good track now wasted..
Your feet will stay warm here because no socks are being blown off 4:39
Thank you so much for making videos Stuart. I would have never been able to become a fan of F1, a sport that I now love, if it weren't for your videos showing how remarkable and complex this sport is. As an American I have been able to spread profusely my passion to family who had never even consider to watch or follow F1, and your videos have consistency been the most engaging and informative, and downright entertaining that exist for Formula 1. I'm very thankful that I found your channel last year and for the endless joy it has brought to me, as well as how close F1 has brought me to my family, who are all fans now. We drove 800 miles interstate in order to all gather to watch the Monaco GP together, then following with binge-watching your technical videos. I would not posses the capacity to enjoy the sport nearly as much as I can if it were not for what you do. Cheers!
@The Undeniable Gamer He must get private links before they come out
This is 100% the same for me
Right on !
@The Undeniable Gamer He is probably a patron on Patreon
@The Undeniable Gamer
Time zones, I reckon - and YT not fully appreciating how they work.
A couple of months ago I got reply to an email dated before the email itself. Turned out the guy was travelling in the Pacific, probably near the international date line.
How much can you blame Tilke for Sochi? He had to build it around the olympic park, I'm guessing he didn't have much freedom in the space provided.
Yeah but you'd think this would make it different to his other tracks.. He may have had limited space but I wasn't so limited that he had to design an original track. It's just another clone.
I watched the track from above on Google Maps, and I realized that, in fact, there is really not a lot of space to create more overtaking opportunities. There is, however, enough space to make almost every corner much more exciting, while maintaining enough runoff areas. So yeah, I would say "fuck it, let's make this track as fast, challenging and exciting as it can be, as we can't have good racing anyway".
@@simoneburini4036 But would it get a grade 1 license if we did do that?
@@Lo33y_ I think that there is enough space for adequate runoff areas
@@simoneburini4036 hard to say in some situations. Cause of the stands needing to be moved in most cases and how feasible is it? Idk just hope the new circuit runs better
I always liked Sepang. When it first came up in 99, it was really cool and unique. However, I do agree: His other tracks were all rather similar, which is a shame and such a waste of opportunities. And I agree with your conclusion: We need some variety. One or two Tilke tracks in the calendar (Sepang and CotA for instance) would be really cool. But we'll always gonna need Interlagos, Monte Carlo, Monza, Spa, and Suzuka. Those five combined are unbeatable. I also loved the old Hockenheimring, it was really unique. The new one isn't bad, exactly, but it's simply another Tilke track. I also liked the old Silverstone; Haven't really gotten used to the new layout, it seems just like a half hearted attempt to lengthen the track. Magny Cours is interesting, as is Estoril. I like Melbourne and Montreal, too. They've also got a unique taste.
I'd love to trade Sepang for Yas Marina as the last race of the year. Yas Marina is so boring and it's way too hard to pass on it unless something really weird happens (I think you know what I'm referring to). I don't think having the championship(s) potentially decided on such a dull track is the way to go and it's such an anticlimactic way to end the season. I know the 2022 cars have allowed for closer racing but I don't how much difference that will actually make on the circuit.
The reason why Austin is such a well-designed circuit, and not boring at all: Tilke just put his signature on it, the actual design is by 1993 MotoGP (then 500cc.) Kevin Schwantz.
So, if you want a good track (not a decent-at-best eclipsed by an awful lot of glittering infrastructures) ask drivers (whether former or active) for the design.
The thing is a lot of tracks are great for other types of racing but not for Formula One. Like Paul Ricard surface is used almost every day of the year, but the design is just uninspiring for an F1 track.
Yeah, but even USA fits this "Tilke formula", in fact almost every single one track on the calendar fits it. The "formula" is so non-specific. Almost every track has "some straights", "some corners", "some high speed corners", "some low speed corners" and "some heavy breaking zones".
You are wrong. Tilke designed COTA, but Kevin Schwantz & former sportscar racer Davy Jones assisted Tilke in designing the track.
similarly, the 2004 version of the Bus Stop in Spa was designed based on feedback from Schumacher, and it worked beautifully, as the overtake from Montoya against Schumacher there showed
the current, overly tight Bus stop with completely straight road before and after was designed without driver feedback, and is the only part of Spa that sucks
Also Alex Wurz (former F1 driveR)
I miss Malaysia SO much, love that track
Our Prime Minister said return to F1 is possible if it makes sense economically.
Abd Fattah I would love that, I miss that track so much
@@AbdFattah I have a news for you,Baku,Suzuka and Singapore are cancelled due the time of montage of street circuit and Suzuka due the travel restrictions in Japan and Chase Carey & Ross Brawn search other tracks to host a F1 race in 2020,Sepang in one of theses tracks
@@MathRaven1910 sadly not to happened this time..
2022 maybe
I'm still sad about Sepang dropping off the calendar, it was one of the best circuits both for racing and for challenging the drivers
Same with me
10:19 aka the first Corner in Austin was actually designed by Alexander Wurz - it also allows for different lines etc..
In fact he incorporated a lot of suggestions into this track!
Maby thats why its so great
Austin also offers up a piece of land with interesting topography - the elevation changes make this one stand out among the more recently built tracks. It does incorporate features inspired by older tracks as the video points out the turns 3-9 section from Silverstone, and also turns 12-16 (not mentioned) inspired by Hockenheim's stadium section. Drivers mention that they really like the circuit because it is very technical and challenging.
Honestly, Malaisia and Istanbul are god-tier tracks, but India and Korea are fire too imo.
I honestly hate the Korea circuit. At least in the games lol.
@@sgtpepper6379 I mean it has zero atmosphere but is quite fun to drive.
@@RavenflashLP I miss the Korean circuit, as well as the Malaysian and Turkish GP. These newer tracks actually did what we need the most in F1; they offered excited racing with plenty of natural overtaking opportunities
I don't know if I'm alone in this but I always hated Korea and India, specially Korea. Races were dull and the track always seemed dirty af
India was a beautiful track shame it had to go
One of the problems is not necessarily Tilke's tracks individually but that the fact he gets to design EVERY new F1 track and that he has a very clear and identifiable formula really takes away any sense of excitement about a new track, and the fact that so many of his tracks follow the same formula means they suit the same conditions, the same cars, very similar setups, and lead to samey racing, which creates a predictable spectacle.
Quite often the problem is that it felt like, for several years, it wasn't that Tilke had the best ideas for what to do with those circuits; it's just he was the only guy consulted.
All circuits covered:
0:50 Sepang, Malaysia
3:00 Sakhir, Bahrain
4:05 Shanghai, China
4:56 Istanbul, Turkey
6:07 Abu Dhabi, UAE
7:47 Yeongham, South Korea
8:47 Buddh, India
10:16 COTA, USA
11:19 Sochi, Russia
11:59 Hanoi, Vietnam
Almost all are terrible
@@Chris-yy5pj Which the worse on your opinion?
@@RadityaPramanaPutra2001personally i'll say Hanoi. Track Layout was not too optimized for racing with the tight corners not letting too much room for overtaking, also corners where way less intuitive than the rest of the circuits with many bumpy kerbs and those long straights where made just for letting drivers being lucky/unlucky with the DRS zones by taking no chances of fighting back positions when racing someone close to you.
@@grooviercrib37 Yeah, I agree.
@@grooviercrib37 Of these 10 tracks, I only will remove Sochi and Hanoi.
Who came here after Imola, Nurburgring and Portimao were added to the calendar :D
me
Can we hope for the return of a Turkish GP?
@@vanitatoftbyits confirmed that its back!!!!
@@leenuss_ where is the report of this?
Wait they're doing Imola too!! Can't wait to see that personally
We need Sepang back, what an amazing circuit it is, the best ever made by Tilke.
id watch a full season on sepang with rain
Ask FIA, Liberty Media on the exorbitant fees they are charging, compared to 'legacy-circuits' like Italy and Monaco, which by the way has seen many European races struggling to pay up, or make enough income to support it. I see that it came from the contracts signed with Bernie, but still.
I miss Turkey
Sorry, but I really hate that track, only the races were good
Dark PlayerX5 I like the challenge of driving around it
I really really really dig your subtle humour. Thanks for the videos.
When tracks forget about the 3rd dimension they tend to fall flat. :D
Tilke designs F1 tracks like road building architect, instead of looking at nature to see how the higher and lower altitudes could change the track. Thats why his tracks seem so boring, because they are just flat F1 traks built on the ground, that are typically very shorth and simple.
Breathes heavily in Portimao, COTA, spa and suzuka
This is why I'm actually quite happy with Zandvoort returning. Sure, there won't be much overtaking (and I wouldn't be surprised if that makes me change my mind halfway through the first race), but I think it will turn out to be one of the most fun tracks for a actual lap of driving and more importantly, it is something different from most tracks on the calendar. In general I am very much a fan of tracks that flow with the terrain instead of having disconnected corner complexes linked with a straight section.
We've had two Zandvoort races since your comment and you were right about overtaking. You were also right about it still being enjoyable to watch because it's something different.
I’d like to see how you would design a track? What kind of corners would you mix and why? Would you make it a wide track or narrow?
Just copy paste Spa Suzuka and Silverstone. Only good circuits start with S.
@@paulcorreia4941 Sochi. Now you're wrong.
Yes... It is much easier to be a critic!
Narrow, lots of elevation change, reasonably long straights but not too long. More quick corners than slow ones, slow corners are usually boring unless they’re overtaking opportunities. The quick corners shouldn’t be flat either, but things you have to lift or tap the brakes for. Focus on sequences, one of the reasons Sochi is such a dreadful bore of a track is every corner is point and shoot, there’s nothing where you may have to compromise entry to get a better exit out of the following corner or vice versa.
Not too long of a track either, I’d say 4.5-4.6 km and 12-15 turns is pretty much optimal for a circuit. I find most of Tilke’s circuits to be too long. You need to have some traffic on a track.
That track is very rarely mentioned but I think the 1955-1975 version of Assen would be truly amazing not only for F1 but for any type of motorracing. Also some of the hilly and flowing tracks in the UK like Brands Hatch, Oulton Park (without chicanes), Cadwell Park would be very cool if we could integrate into them a long straight with a massive braking zone.
I would love to design a track, I would have some heavy braking zones, long straights... and... double corners... well shit, my tracks would be a copy
Seeing this I was just like... ‘Malaysia is And will always be Perfect’ I loved that track so much, sad it’s gone now😕
Tilke has also made Chang international curcuit, in Buriram, Thailand. Its a MotoGP track and its all the same. Long straigts, hard braking zones and a ess zone.
That's the worst track in Motogp
The US circuit is incredible great for the motoGP races
so much fun to watch
Every circuit is though.
@@Rosario_Verano Well you are right. I just meant that I think the Circuit of the Americas is one of the best for motoGP
@@lucaheinrichs Circuit Of The Americas in Texas was well designed. The motogp there is hall of a fun. And the F1 in it is challenging and existing.
And IndyCar. Every tilke track design are mostly dull for F1 but for other like MotoGP or Indycar it was hell of a race
Last I read about MotoGP and COTA is that they were extremely unhappy with the quality of the track surface, nearly to the point of declaring it unsafe. The layout is fantastic though.
The problem is Tilke designs the track around hospitality. Not the other way around.
So tou're saying that hospitality should design the track around Tilke?
@@ukaszraczkowski6260 Hope this was meant as a joke. If not, you did not get the meaming of this comment.
@@Rocky712_ It's obviously a joke...
@@monsieurboks First, i thought that as well, but after years being in the Internet you cannot be sure that all people are that smart - yeah, it´s shocking, but the sad reality.
Łukasz Raczkowski dude wtf are you dumb
The track should design Tilke around hospitality
The best tracks are the ones that are built into the landscape without changing it too much so the flow is natural with height elevation
Spa
Monaco
Suzuka
Nurburgring
Etc
Some circuits like the Korean,Istanbul park,sepang and Buddh are really amazing circuits.
I detest Yeongam in Korea. Fuck that shit!
Unfortunately all four of those tracks are off the calendar now but we're still stuck with boring Yas Marina.
Hermann Tilke is the Imagine Dragons of circuit design.
what do you mean by that?
Carl Tobias Goldberg he’s formulaic, repetitive, successful, and both loved and hated. :)
@@indyandherjones Nobody on the history of this earth has been as right as you have right now.
You wanted a hit
How can you say something so controversial, yet so brave?
i need more tracks like Spa or Watkins Glen, they are my favorites
and one like suzuka, it is really special
Why having a track that resembles another track? That's the point of this vid, we need a track unlike any other track
@@paryudisaditya8845 with Spa, The Glenn, Nurbergring they took small roads connecting small towns and turned it into a racetrack. If you try to do the same track in Doesburg or Kamloops or Akaroa you would end up with similar looking but completely different tracks, because the layout is dominated by the landscape, .
@@paryudisaditya8845 when i say like spa or Watkins Glen, its because of their history, which is the same as lemans, at the start those tracks was just roads, but ppl like them so they did some work so that they became real circuits, and they just redraw some problematic curves and people still love them.
So in facts those tracks are better because isnt just a track because we need a track in this country and it does have a real history.
(i hope my english is readable i'm french :))
@@theor.6856 umm okay i misunderstood what you were saying. I do agree that historical track should always be there, but the problem of a historical track is it's always in europe, while F1 isn't necesarrily european, as an indonesian fan i'd really like to have a race in my own backyard too, and there's definately no track that possess historical value around here. So i guess it's just have to be balanced, between having modern new racetrack and old hiatorical track
@@paryudisaditya8845 i talked about Watkins Glen which is near to NY :)
but yeah some country who hasnt been interested in motorsports in the past needs cool and news tracks but we need someone else to draw them
Turkey wasn't just a good track because it had turn 8, it also was a proper track with challenging corners, good oppurtunities to pass and a verry varied landscape making for some wacky and old school feeling corner entries and exits. Honestly for me the most interesting part of the circuit was the double tight s' at the end of the long back straight where Webber and Vettel collided. Also the end of the first sector is so hard to get right and such a blast to watch during qualifying! If it wasn't for the economy i would advocate for the return of the Turkish GP, since the political climate is... well, altrough still tense its at least stable and terror hasn't been an issue since the last day of 2016.
Even though tilke has some tracks which are fine, the best ones always seem to be the traditional ones which evolved over the decades and were adjusted to suit the changing eras
I thought you have not uploaded in a very long time. Turns out your video did not come out on my subscriptions 😅
Glad you mentioned SIC, hope that it will return to host F1
+Ali Nassereddine - That'd be SIC for "Sepang International Circuit".
According to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sepang_International_Circuit#History , it was dropped due to "dwindling ticket sales", not anything track-related like South Africa.
Istanbul is the best tikle race tract.. Turn 8 as said was a killer... best turn of the modern era.
But it was copied to further tracks. So those must be killer, too?
Malaysia for me but yes, Istanbul was a great track
@@ivan_pozdeev_u yeah it was copied but the outcome was not the same as in turkey. Nothing comes close
Malaysia was best
@Stratowind the last sector of cota is trash though
Great video, but still didn't answer my biggest question: why did Tilke design every track? And how come he had 100% control over the track layout?
Bernie could answer that for you.😒
Because he is the track designer..... it is his job, if people kept stepping in and doing it, he would leave
Nepotism, ofc. People love to shit on Ballestre but today's F1 is as corrupt as it can ever be.
Because Bernie.
@@bobmcl2406 I think that is only part of it. If you are trying to host your own GP, you might be more inclined to use a designer that already built many race tracks and knows the best configuration of buildings/infrastructure/etc. than to use a new designer who might come up with some impractical things. As the old saying in the 80s goes: nobody was fired for buying IBM - same thing might be true for Tilke.
I miss Malaysia. It was so fun to watch and race.
I'd love to see F1 at Bathurst. I know it's never going to happen, but it sure is insane fun in VR on PC2.
I love the way you fuckin' think...
Narrow AF
I really like tracks that are built out of the terrain already there, it gives it a more organic and I guess nicer feel, it's less artificial...
(Unless they suck and are boring of course...)
That's the reason why cota is good and the other tilke tracks are not.
@@Bob5217sla agreed
+Bob 13 - You don't want to know the sheer amount of earth that needed to be moved to make CotA. They did a very good job making it seem organic there, but "seem" is the operative word in that sentence...
@@rjfaber1991 also agreed
@@rjfaber1991 I thought the earthmoving was mostly for Turn 1, and to dig down for a few spots. They are in the Texas "hill country" after all.
I do love the elevation changes on courses. SO much could be done to enhance the beauty around the tracks while maintaining safety.
i hope to see malaysia back, i love that track!!!
Same with me
13:25
“This video was brought to you by CuriosityStream, an expensive...”
Took me a bit to realize you meant expansive.
Bear: People like COTA !
Jimmy Broadbent: Am I a joke to you ?
tbh its massively annoying in iRacing because you get offtracks everywhere
@@KirbyfanDE just dont leave the track, simple. In soccer, you dont just pick up the ball and run, it's against the rules. In Motorsports, its against the rules to leave the track, so dont.
@@jacobhanekamp2534 No worries I don't. The problem with COTA is just that it is inconsistant with other tracks on iRacing and in parts itself. Theres tracks like Sebring in the LeMans corner where you can and have to put 4 wheels off by a far for the best line and then theres COTA where you get offtracks for going on certain kerbs and can go most part off in others. I agree that track limits have to be enforced but you have to be consistant.
That's why F1 2019s system is crap because you can do the literally same thing over and over with seemingly random outcomes
As an American I want NASCAR at COTA more than anything
Lancaster Responding Eddie Gossage wants to know your location
COTA really showcase what an F1 car can do. I was there for the 2018 race weekend, and watched quali near entry of the 'S' section, and can just about see the long right, it really shows how well the cars changes direction, and how much speed they can carry through corners. Watched race near braking zone of turn 1. It does seem to have many different lines through, and good opportunities to race right off the start.
5:15 checo and lewis definitely proved this
Will you mention the modified (butchered tracks) he did in a second part
No, please. Don't mention hockenheim. That's painful. Can we pretend the old version never existed?
@DESTROYER67732 if Monaco and Zandvoort are suitable, then anything is.
@DESTROYER67732 that was the point. tracks aren't challenging cars anymore, and F1 had different aero setups specifically for Monza and Hockenheim due to their speeds. Fine, the cars weren't visible to eyeballs for 40% of the lap, but neither was Spa at the time. The only reason to remove it was to make use of the stadium section more and to reduce the overall track length.
IMO, that ruined the uniqueness and ying-yang that the stadium vs woods provided.
@DESTROYER67732 what was great in old hockenheim is that all those straights, requiring a very thin wing, ended up into the snaily Motodrome, making it very difficult. So car setup was to be a demanding compromise
@@austinzetzman8547 Although I agree that the old Hockenheim Circuit was legendary, I really like the new one. Among different racing series it has proven to deliver spectacular racing and it still is a pretty quick track.
Tilkes Designs are often great to drive but bad for overtaking in my opinion.
It's the opposite, Tilke tracks are the only tracks modern F1 cars can overtake on at all (ok, you can add Spa as well). The older Tilke tracks did also drive quite well, but can't say the same about the newer ones.
@@C3lloman Monza and Suzuka as well
@@C3lloman Modern F1 cars are just so damn big these days that older tracks built for cars that were much much narrower simply aren’t capable of being good for overtaking anymore
Good insight on your video. I always thought F1 should bring back one track from the from the yester year for each F1 season. For example, 2020 they go to kyalami in 2021 they go to Watkins Glen etc. so that one track is always changing each year.
We need more SPAs and Imolas (1994 Version).
With new safety-standards.
We need more straights and more highspeed-action.
Well, guess what Imola back on the calendar this year
Spa 1994 for safety reasons got a chicane at eau rouge/radilion complex
If Imola 1994 is dangerous, then why Indianapolis allowed to host a race? Both tracks have a similar, high speed corner. If someone crashed like Senna back in '94 but with modern safety standards, it won't be as dangerous as RSC's crash in USA 2004.
Oh yeah, we need more Monacos without chicanes
@DavorMATF Most dull circuit on top of the list is definitely Yeongam, South Korea. I mean WTF? Why such a soulless circuit allowed to host F1 eventhough it was axed long ago..
Long and flowing tracks like Silverstone, Suzuka and Spa are so much better. Sure, they do have some sharp corners, but it's not like Tilke's circuits where every straight ends into stupid, slow braking zones/sharp turns.
What about Turkey and Malaysia?
I've been looking for informed opinion pieces on track designs for years! I'm glad to get one from you. Thank you! If you have any more thoughts about tracks I know atleast this subscriber would very much appreciate it if you shared them.
Thanks again!
You sometimes forget how many of these new circuits have come and gone in a short time. Malaysia, India, Turkey, Korea.....all built and developed at great cost but then binned from the calendar.
The reason for that is mostly the local governments not supporting it financially.
@@HemanthKumar-pr4qg and the FIA being greedy
I've wondered why almost half the calendar has samey track traits. Thank you for answering this.
Whatever you say, the most important point is that still none of his tracks can compete with the likes of Macau, Bathurst, VIR, Spa, Suzuka, Road Atlanta, etc. the REALLY good tracks all around.
I think the common thread of all of those is that they were built around and using the hilly natural landscape in the area.
@@jsquared1013 Well, I specifically listed circuits that excel both in terms of challenge and decent passing opportunities as well, something that is often brought up in defence of the Tilkedromes. Honestly, the only thing even the better Tilkedromes have on these is safety.
Look up Bilster Berg.
It's not an F1 track, but it's unique, characterful, tricky and risky so in other words, everything his F1 tracks aren't.
No idea how he came up with this diamond of a race track
Yeah, Road Atlanta! That, Indianapolis, Laguna Seca, and the US' sheer size and geographic diversity are my arguments for multiple US Grands Prix a year.
@@kraftwels he came up with this diamond of a track because he was not restricted by the fia
Please let the next video be: How to create a good race track
Well, this vid sort of covers that already, at least partly.
Also, I'd assume Stuart won't make those, I think he's too down to earth to pretend he knows more about track design than those that made it their jobs.
@@mscbijles1256 This is the internet. Everyone can be an expert if they want to be :)
It's not like Tilke has completely free hand to do whatever he wants. In Abu Dhabi for example he basically had to draw a racing track in between already planned buildings that frequently changed. Of course, Abu Dhabi is a complete garbage track, but Tilke is not the only one to blame...
What really hurts Yas Marina is that it's the last race of the season. It's such an anticlimax to the year.
The best circuit in my opinion is Spa, it's long, fast and with some fantastic elevation changes. One side of the circuit can be dry whilst the other side can be wet making for some truly great racing.
My other fave is Le Mans in France, it doesn't have the massive elevation changes like Spa but it's long and fast and the 24hr race is the best race of the year of any series especially after they killed f1 off in 2014.
We need a return of some of the traditional circuits.
We need back Turkey, Malesia, India, South Korea Circuits.
Those others GPs Repeats and feels the same.
I miss sepang and turkey 😔
South Korea was a horrific race and Indian wasn't particularly good as well.
india and south korea where the most horrible tracks in the entire world
The problem with S Korea was the circuit was in the middle of nowhere and no one wanted to go. I think India as well... didn't really catch on. And now Force India is Force India or Whatever it's called.
Turkey and Malaysia were great.
But they need to focus on circuits/countries where people will actually show up and watch the race
India wasn't that bad
It's awesome having Sepang as my home track, I bring my car there every month for trackdays
Do they charge?
Brilliant video mate. Loved the analysis. Thank you
plenty more of new circuits, this video needs a part 2! And I would love to see your analysis about Interlagos, my favorite track (brazillian bias ?) cause i would like to know with your amazing explanation why the track is so wonderful
We won't blame you for being biased towards your home track, especially because that track happens to a great one like Interlagos.
Excellent video! What about a video like this about tracks from 80s and 90s like Estoril or Imola?
Sotchi to be honest is not really Tilke‘s fault. The location forced the track to build this way. Because the track had to be in the Olympiapark, so he dont have a empty playing field to put a layout together.
Abu Dhabi is a perfekt example to have unlimted money, so he tryd to build a perfect curcuit for 40 different layouts.
Don't understand why Abu Dhabi get's so much hate from the fans. I prefer Abu Dhabi to be the last race. For example the 2017 race was boring because of the current regulation. Then next year it's get's better
PKMN F1
Abu Dhabi Layout had never worked for great racing. Rember the year Vettel wins his title?
Alonso and Webber stuck like 30 rounds behind Petrov in the Renault because they never get a chance to overtake, The slower Renault from Petrov and both lose their chance of the titel.
Or Hamilton can drive so slow around the track that he create a train of cars and Abu Dhabi is not Monaco. Still nobody could overtake.
Abu Dhabi is a perfect plase for testing, like Paul Ricard or Barcelona. But not for racing.
A great video, and as a designer I agree with everything stated, maybe minus the COTA part. It still hasn't grown on me as a fun track that one, but I'll give it some time. Mostly because, and as something that could've been worth mentioning as well, all these tracks also benefit (COTA the most) from huge safety areas on most turns (in some cases almost at a Paul Ricard level) that allow drivers to make lots of mistakes and go virtually unpunished.
I really like some of these tracks especially COTA, but since I started watching around 2015 I didn't get to see live races and drive on alot of them on the f1 games. The concept in South Korea looked amazing
He did it so that Scalextric can sell a box with a select number of parts but make several circuits - evidently ;)
TILKE SET: 5 TRACKS IN ONE
Love the content, keep up the great work.
I think you forgot Valencia Street Circuit, that street circuit around Valencia's port, which had awful gp's but the last one (2012)
He didn't forget it, he mentioned at the start of the video that he wouldn't be covering Tilke's street circuits
That one is shit too, I called it Valenshit Circuit.
@@ryannurse2890 but sochi is a street circuit
Really good video. An extra tilke touch not mentioned is this idea of a 'back' straight which is longer than the pit straight. Quite clearly designed around F1 DRS zones. Call me old fashioned, but I have no issue with 1 'main' straight a la Fuji. Ultimately we just need some more diversity among circuit designers. There are plenty of others out there, and we now have plenty of Tilke tracks in the calendar, so why not try something or someone new?
Nice to see footage from Ben and Aarav, there
get back turkey. most fun track together with spa, suzuka & silverstone.
Cars probably wouldn't be able to race as well
It was fun watching every driver runs on Turn 8 on different gears. Even Schumacher was struggling finding apexes.
India and Korea too
I prefer Brazil
and Sepang
Nice video once again 👍👍
Minor nitpick, I would not really characterize turn 3 in Bahrain as a "kink" on the straight. It may be different in a high-downforce *very* high acceleration car like an F1 car or LMP, but for street-based cars it's basically just tighter curbing for the turn 2 exit 😁 (i.e. you don't really drive as if it was its own corner, you just use the apex curbing as the outer limit for your exit from turn 2 and then unwind onto the straight between 3 and 4).
I think part of what helps Bahrain as well is the elevation change. You don't really notice it on the outer straights (ir on TV), but the inner section from turn 4 to 14 has a decent amount of elevation change with the corners, which gives them a bit more character and uniqueness, and also changes the approach you have to take to them as opposed to corners on a flat circuit.
Every good architect has an instantly recognizable style. Malaysia is good, Bahrain is good, COTA is really good. But those should be the only 3 Tilke tracks on the schedule. The only real problem with Tilke is that he has designed too many tracks. Like you said we need variety. Van Gogh was a great painter but no one wants to only see his art all the time. I don’t have an issue with the tracks Tilke has remodeled because it’s mostly just a couple corners out of a circuit, and the tracks still have a distinct feel.
I have to say, Abu Dhabi is one of my favourite races to watch. I like the way the track is interweaved with the hotel and that fast double right hander just before, is exciting and we've seen people get it wrong.
While I get the point you're making , I don't think it's totally fair. I mean, you say that long straights with hard braking zones into tight corners are very Tilke-esque and predictable but then go on to tell us that Monza is a fantastic example. The first corner on the Monza circuit is a long straight with a hard braking zone into a tight corner, so what's the difference?
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE your videos and the detail you go into, especially when explaining how the cars work, so thank you and please keep making them 😁👍
I’m curious on how you would create a track, maybe even make a video on it?
Watching this in 2022 with the new regulations I can say that Tilke designed tracks help in supporting the new overtaking abilities of the cars and some of the better tracks to race at with them.
Tilke’s Magnum Opus will always be Sepang. What a track!
Tracks need some memorable quirks like Eau Rouge-Raidillon
Phoe Nix what makes this corner is the elevation. If it was flat it would be dull
The FIA regulations for a Grade 1 track don't actually allow for a sequence like that, unfortunately.
Get whoever Polyphony use to design their original circuits for Gran Turismo, Lago Maggiore, Dragon Trail Seaside and Cape Ring spring to mind as incredible tracks but they're far from the only ones
And high speed ring for indycar
i just want more spa honestly. I know that spa is the 'holy grail' if that's a good way to put it but just the flow and elevation change of the track makes me love watching overtakes. sebastian vettel in 2019 comes to mind. great video!
I would love to see an F1 short track. Small, slow, tight. Maybe like 5 or 6 turns Keep everyone close together and make every corner a passing opportunity. I think it would a fun watch throughout
Sooooo Austria?
I would honestly like to know how it is possible to not build a Tilke track... Not really seeing much more you can use to design F1 circuits
Seems great in theory, but won't most of the time the width be insufficient? F1 doesn't really need narrow tracks.
@Zachary Menking While COTA is quite artificial, perhaps if you would take the layout and put it in the middle of a forest it would already be something extraordinary, not?
There's definitely a lack of identity in the average Tilke track, though COTA seems great (seen from a non-american perspective!)
@@pedropt10 Yes. As if some people say "lets make it even more difficult to overtake by building a track that can't fit two cars side by side!¨
A Good Flow!!! Tilkes Tracks are the worst to Drive With really no fun and really no flow. Tracks with the best flow are simply imola, nürburg gp Track, spa, canada, suzuka and the magny-cours circuit in france
11:56, yet tilke’s options were limited because of having to thread the circuit around the buildings of the Sochi Olympic park. I would think it would be difficult to design a circuit when you have no buildings to navigate, this is more a street circuit than an actual circuit
exactly! Sochi is basically Monte Carlo without elevation changes! Yet I love RALLY MONTE CARLO in the mountains!
Couldn’t agree with you more about Sochi. Numb track. Great video. Loved the interesting topic on track design.
The only two bad tracks of tilka were really limited by the landscape/buildings oround, when he had "full decision" on the track lines He did really well (in my opinion)