My reaction to the artworks “oh those are cool” my reaction to the Emet artwork “FHDKAOWJZ, damnit I swore I’d never go back to MTG…but for Emet…..fuck guess I’m back”
@@Phyrefly6 Could just buy singles TCG, Card Kingdom, etc. Unless you enjoy the RNG/pack cracking, because that does have a certain satisfaction to it too.
Thankfully it looks like most of this specific art isn't likely to be AI art. HOWEVER, because WOTC are not only known for using the forbidden rituals but they freaking brag about it this means that everything they put out is going under a magnifying glass even if they someday backpedal the whole thing.
As of may this year at the latest, WotC has vowed not to use ai art. That's when their stance was last updated, dunno about before then. They've got a whole FAQ specifically about generative ai art. They contract with a lot of 3rd party artists, though, and tend to put them on a pretty strict deadline, which at least one MTG artist who was caught in the past gave as their reason.
It gets even more muddy with how the way wotc handles dnd and magic are rather different. Soo what how they handle each property is subject to change. The last time i saw something ai related with magic was social media managers using ai gemerated backdrops for their ad reels. Which got them very roasted by the community because there's dozens of good location and backdrop art every set they could have used why generate one... they were quick to apologize and correct those reels
I came ready to drop my take in but clearly the GG guys are more qualified to speak on this. Bottom line for me is like with any applicable topic, witch hunts I think pull people away from the legitimate cases with real victims that we need to be addressing
My initial reaction was "gen ai? in _my_ magic? I'm _shocked"._ I feel real bad about that. Once I actually took a close look at the drawings, I thought it was pretty clear it's not ai. What really bugs me is how one of the big points people point to is that the blade doesn't meet the hilt. It literally does if you look closely at it. Another point people are making is that, on the Tidus/Yuna art, apparently their fingers aren't touching. They literally are. I've also seen someone say "you can tell the Emet art is ai cuz of the medals on his chest" with no further elaboration source trust me bro. edit: ah leave it to Garrett to point out the inconsistency xD I hate the entire idea of generative ai artwork, but this panic over design discrepancies and people just not looking at the art close enough and "oh it _must_ be ai because my brain told me so!" has left me disappointed in the community and also myself. But to end on a happier note, I'm definitely building a couple commander decks out of this set. Dunno if I'll even get much chance to use 'em, but I'll have 'em.
That last sentence is so me too. I used to have physical playgroups, but the closest I can get now is over Tabletop Simulator, but just building physical EDH decks is so satisfying.
I was one of the people that analyzed this and a lot of others have also debunked it. But yeah, I'd be massively surprised if this was AI. Also, a big difference from this and the actual MTG AI incident is the other incident was created by a marketing person. Not a credited artist. Edit: Also, shame on everyone who perpetuates this without evidence. It does hurt not only artists but the actual cause. I have worked on AI and know what to look for. I also am very adamant about it being used ethically and have huge issue with how data is basically stolen for most "AI". I heard similar comments about the Kefka image and took one look and didn't even need to do a deep analysis to explain how AI would have made it take way longer and harder to actually produce that one.
I got back into physical Magic with Bloomburrow this summer. I was tentatively excited for the news about Final Fantasy getting a Universes Beyond set, because I figured it would be heavily influenced by one game over all others… but the news that they would be covering the entire series got me pumped. On the subject of AI art? I have to agree that the Sephiroth art in particular looks a little scuffed, but looking at the artists other work and how whispy it tends to be, in addition to Wizards getting raked over the coals for AI art in one of their advertisements earlier this year, makes me think it’s likely NOT AI generated, but it’s also not out of the question.
For me, if an artist submits something like this, and insists it's not AI, then I'd expect a cleaner version with the errata in it to come out as a the final product. Because when we see something like this but noticed a bunch of little hairs on it, it feels like it was a WIP that got submitted to meet a deadline, not the finished product they really wanted to make. Sometimes a company puts an unrealistic deadline on an artist and they're gonna need to shove a 90% product out the door. That might be what we saw with Sephiroth.
The thing for me that leads me to believe the sephiroth picture is ai generated is the sword blade. It abruptly rotates 90 degrees then "wanders" back to normal. From a frontal view point, the flat and spine of the blade should be barely visible at best, but the blade fully shifts to the flat just inches from the hilt.
@@RockR277 possible, but less likely that a person would have drawn in the sharp angle into the blade, more likely that a person would have just drawn the sword lines straight.
@@RockR277 if the blade was just wider at that point, I'd take it as an overlooked mistake, but the blade looks like it was cut and reattached at a 90 degree angle, then turned back. There's even a hook at that point, on the "back" of the blade that shouldn't be there; one that wouldn't be there if it was drawn with straight, or even continuous lines.
Part of the problem is that the CEO of WotC confirmed that they're already using AI in their products at a Goldman Sachs meeting last month, so I don't feel inclined to give WotC products the benefit of the doubt, but then the blame and suspicion gets placed on individual contract artists instead.
@@csrjjsmp Neither, I'm talking about a real thing that actually happened and was widely reported on. If you go ahead and search for "Chris Cox AI Goldman Sachs" you will find articles directly quoting the CEO's statements.
Serphiroth might have been made in few enough pixels that you could name every single one of them, but you forgot what came after. He's been in other games, a tv series, a movie and the remakes. I have no idea how consistent his depiction is, across all of that, but it gives people plenty full-detail examples to compere to, not just the original FF7 stuff, so the ultra obsessive fans, have plenty to obsess over.
Just between ff7 and kh, he has different costumes. I am not certain off hand if KH1 and kh2 are different. Pretty sure if I check k Remake vs. Advent Children or original, itll be different too.
The internet has people completely brainrotted. This is from an artist with an extensive history of hand-drawn pieces, including being ripped off by AI themselves. But people look at obvious human error in hand-drawn art and call it AI because "it looks off" or "has mistakes". AI issues are stuff like things melding together or lines sharing the same stroke or patterns lacking consistency. Having an odd or mistaken perspective, added details, or wiggly lines isn't AI. That's part of art. Do you walk into a museum and point at every piece with an odd perspective or smudgy background details and call it AI as well? People have become so paranoid that they now accuse everything of being AI. It's gotten to the point that the thing that'll cause AI to replace artists wont be the AI itself, but the consumers scaring off real artists who fear the constant accusations and harassment.
I started MTG arena recently, arts are pretty and it's pretty fun :D I wanna try Commander format as well but there is only brawl(1vs1) in Arena which is a bummer
Interesting topic, not gonny buy it because i hate TCG business model with a fiery passion, (i'm more inclined to LCG and alike) but yet the use of IA in this domain is concerning to be honest but even more the pressure on artists is an even worse topic.
its wild that this even happened honestly, like fair enough if you are calling out why does sephiroth have 7 fingers or something, but why is sephiroth's belt buckle wrong is insane. I'd be willing to bet a decent chunk of the art in this set will be of iconic characters that the artist has never had more than a passing glance at, just because you nerd out over sephiroth's belt buckles and know every detail doesn't mean the person who did this art is going to. this is gatekeeping taken to a new extreme.
The people at Magic just don't have any interesting in using machine generated art. MaRo, one of the lead designers, has outright said so, and the fact that each piece of art has an artist attributed to it is another good indicator.
@Bardic_Knowledge Well, there's still the possibility of contracted artists potential using ai in the pieces that they give to WotC. I don't think any of these were ai generated, though.
That Sephiroth card is 100% AI assisted. The hilt of the sword is a dead giveaway, as well as the missing details on the legs. Even the face shape is wrong. As artists we try to at least get the shapes down correctly enough but here they're just blatantly missing.
My reaction to the artworks “oh those are cool” my reaction to the Emet artwork “FHDKAOWJZ, damnit I swore I’d never go back to MTG…but for Emet…..fuck guess I’m back”
I don't even plan on playing, but I'm looking forward to spending lots on packs, trying to get his card.
@@Phyrefly6 Could just buy singles TCG, Card Kingdom, etc. Unless you enjoy the RNG/pack cracking, because that does have a certain satisfaction to it too.
@DifunctedReble Yes, it's been a long time since I've bought Magic cards and I think I would enjoy the thrill of the hunt. :)
Emet MTG fan's storm the game stores all the while choir singing "HOOOOME, riding HOOOME".
The extra belts/buckles are just homage to Tetsuya Nomura lmao
Thankfully it looks like most of this specific art isn't likely to be AI art. HOWEVER, because WOTC are not only known for using the forbidden rituals but they freaking brag about it this means that everything they put out is going under a magnifying glass even if they someday backpedal the whole thing.
As of may this year at the latest, WotC has vowed not to use ai art. That's when their stance was last updated, dunno about before then. They've got a whole FAQ specifically about generative ai art. They contract with a lot of 3rd party artists, though, and tend to put them on a pretty strict deadline, which at least one MTG artist who was caught in the past gave as their reason.
@@RockR277 And then last month, the CEO told investors that WotC is already using AI in their products.
@@Eruvadhril Heck
It gets even more muddy with how the way wotc handles dnd and magic are rather different.
Soo what how they handle each property is subject to change.
The last time i saw something ai related with magic was social media managers using ai gemerated backdrops for their ad reels. Which got them very roasted by the community because there's dozens of good location and backdrop art every set they could have used why generate one... they were quick to apologize and correct those reels
I came ready to drop my take in but clearly the GG guys are more qualified to speak on this. Bottom line for me is like with any applicable topic, witch hunts I think pull people away from the legitimate cases with real victims that we need to be addressing
PACK OPENING STREEEEEEAAAAAAM
My initial reaction was "gen ai? in _my_ magic? I'm _shocked"._ I feel real bad about that. Once I actually took a close look at the drawings, I thought it was pretty clear it's not ai. What really bugs me is how one of the big points people point to is that the blade doesn't meet the hilt. It literally does if you look closely at it. Another point people are making is that, on the Tidus/Yuna art, apparently their fingers aren't touching. They literally are. I've also seen someone say "you can tell the Emet art is ai cuz of the medals on his chest" with no further elaboration source trust me bro. edit: ah leave it to Garrett to point out the inconsistency xD
I hate the entire idea of generative ai artwork, but this panic over design discrepancies and people just not looking at the art close enough and "oh it _must_ be ai because my brain told me so!" has left me disappointed in the community and also myself.
But to end on a happier note, I'm definitely building a couple commander decks out of this set. Dunno if I'll even get much chance to use 'em, but I'll have 'em.
That last sentence is so me too. I used to have physical playgroups, but the closest I can get now is over Tabletop Simulator, but just building physical EDH decks is so satisfying.
I was one of the people that analyzed this and a lot of others have also debunked it. But yeah, I'd be massively surprised if this was AI. Also, a big difference from this and the actual MTG AI incident is the other incident was created by a marketing person. Not a credited artist.
Edit: Also, shame on everyone who perpetuates this without evidence. It does hurt not only artists but the actual cause.
I have worked on AI and know what to look for. I also am very adamant about it being used ethically and have huge issue with how data is basically stolen for most "AI". I heard similar comments about the Kefka image and took one look and didn't even need to do a deep analysis to explain how AI would have made it take way longer and harder to actually produce that one.
I got back into physical Magic with Bloomburrow this summer. I was tentatively excited for the news about Final Fantasy getting a Universes Beyond set, because I figured it would be heavily influenced by one game over all others… but the news that they would be covering the entire series got me pumped.
On the subject of AI art? I have to agree that the Sephiroth art in particular looks a little scuffed, but looking at the artists other work and how whispy it tends to be, in addition to Wizards getting raked over the coals for AI art in one of their advertisements earlier this year, makes me think it’s likely NOT AI generated, but it’s also not out of the question.
For me, if an artist submits something like this, and insists it's not AI, then I'd expect a cleaner version with the errata in it to come out as a the final product. Because when we see something like this but noticed a bunch of little hairs on it, it feels like it was a WIP that got submitted to meet a deadline, not the finished product they really wanted to make.
Sometimes a company puts an unrealistic deadline on an artist and they're gonna need to shove a 90% product out the door. That might be what we saw with Sephiroth.
Even for Bloomborrow, I can't not see how weird Emberheart Challenger looks, and then assume its gen AI.
The thing for me that leads me to believe the sephiroth picture is ai generated is the sword blade. It abruptly rotates 90 degrees then "wanders" back to normal. From a frontal view point, the flat and spine of the blade should be barely visible at best, but the blade fully shifts to the flat just inches from the hilt.
@simusar But what if, like, a living, flesh dude did that and just didn't have time to fix it? Is that possible?
@@RockR277 possible, but less likely that a person would have drawn in the sharp angle into the blade, more likely that a person would have just drawn the sword lines straight.
@@RockR277 if the blade was just wider at that point, I'd take it as an overlooked mistake, but the blade looks like it was cut and reattached at a 90 degree angle, then turned back. There's even a hook at that point, on the "back" of the blade that shouldn't be there; one that wouldn't be there if it was drawn with straight, or even continuous lines.
Part of the problem is that the CEO of WotC confirmed that they're already using AI in their products at a Goldman Sachs meeting last month, so I don't feel inclined to give WotC products the benefit of the doubt, but then the blame and suspicion gets placed on individual contract artists instead.
@@csrjjsmp Neither, I'm talking about a real thing that actually happened and was widely reported on. If you go ahead and search for "Chris Cox AI Goldman Sachs" you will find articles directly quoting the CEO's statements.
@@csrjjsmp A quick research on google and you would know they are right. An article from September 12th 2024 from PC Gamer talks about it.
Serphiroth might have been made in few enough pixels that you could name every single one of them, but you forgot what came after. He's been in other games, a tv series, a movie and the remakes. I have no idea how consistent his depiction is, across all of that, but it gives people plenty full-detail examples to compere to, not just the original FF7 stuff, so the ultra obsessive fans, have plenty to obsess over.
Just between ff7 and kh, he has different costumes. I am not certain off hand if KH1 and kh2 are different. Pretty sure if I check k Remake vs. Advent Children or original, itll be different too.
I miss my days playing original L5R.
The internet has people completely brainrotted. This is from an artist with an extensive history of hand-drawn pieces, including being ripped off by AI themselves. But people look at obvious human error in hand-drawn art and call it AI because "it looks off" or "has mistakes".
AI issues are stuff like things melding together or lines sharing the same stroke or patterns lacking consistency.
Having an odd or mistaken perspective, added details, or wiggly lines isn't AI. That's part of art. Do you walk into a museum and point at every piece with an odd perspective or smudgy background details and call it AI as well?
People have become so paranoid that they now accuse everything of being AI. It's gotten to the point that the thing that'll cause AI to replace artists wont be the AI itself, but the consumers scaring off real artists who fear the constant accusations and harassment.
It was made by IA... Introverted Artists ;3
I started MTG arena recently, arts are pretty and it's pretty fun :D
I wanna try Commander format as well but there is only brawl(1vs1) in Arena which is a bummer
Interesting topic, not gonny buy it because i hate TCG business model with a fiery passion, (i'm more inclined to LCG and alike) but yet the use of IA in this domain is concerning to be honest but even more the pressure on artists is an even worse topic.
its wild that this even happened honestly, like fair enough if you are calling out why does sephiroth have 7 fingers or something, but why is sephiroth's belt buckle wrong is insane. I'd be willing to bet a decent chunk of the art in this set will be of iconic characters that the artist has never had more than a passing glance at, just because you nerd out over sephiroth's belt buckles and know every detail doesn't mean the person who did this art is going to. this is gatekeeping taken to a new extreme.
Garrett - Smash challenge accepted, I'll start practicing my sepheroth game now to make sure I'm ready to win again
Uh, this is definitely something. I would play Magic again for this
all this kerfuffle just tells me people can't actually tell what is AI and what is not xD
Like, such controversy exists everywhere. In 2023, when the Lord of The Rings Set came out, there was something that blew up the internet hard.
The people at Magic just don't have any interesting in using machine generated art. MaRo, one of the lead designers, has outright said so, and the fact that each piece of art has an artist attributed to it is another good indicator.
@Bardic_Knowledge Well, there's still the possibility of contracted artists potential using ai in the pieces that they give to WotC. I don't think any of these were ai generated, though.
That Sephiroth card is 100% AI assisted. The hilt of the sword is a dead giveaway, as well as the missing details on the legs. Even the face shape is wrong. As artists we try to at least get the shapes down correctly enough but here they're just blatantly missing.
the fact you think it's 100% is such a red flag.
Oof how wrong you are on this...... a well known person who rails against AI even vouched for the artist.....
Morning all o/
MTG artists are force to use AI to help accelerate their work to meet the insane demands of WotC.
1st good morning all o/