We both almost died...now what??
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- Опубликовано: 2 апр 2024
- After both Mark and I had near death experiences, we've been contemplating life a lot. What is next for us? Where are we putting our efforts? Help us out and tell us what you think.
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Развлечения
YES! Buy the Albatross! That would be the coolest project yet, by far!
By a Grumman duck as well. It is also a great amphibious plane.
i always wanted to do the same! but for time beeing I only managed to build a RV-8 😂 And now a Family.. Thus it would be great to see you doing it!
... and make your brother to buy PBY Catalina
This is one of my favorite airplanes
I had this same idea and was sharing it with a friend a few months ago! I would LOVE to see this build!
Flying has become a rich man's game. That is THE BIGGEST obstacle for most to get in to aviation. New aircraft are unobtainium for the average guy and because of this, quality used aircraft prices are either very high or the aircraft needs a lot of work. Even in the Homebuilt market, kits prices are relatively high. Yes, a lot of people are building but not nearly as many as had been. Years ago, I started building an RV-6A. It was one of the most affordable kits out there. Now, the tail kit costs as much as most of the full kit I started with. I had to sell mine because my eyes started to go bad. I've gotten past that and they are great now but I started looking to get back in to it and even ultralight kits are more than what it used to cost to build a nice homebuilt kit. I'm now looking at PPG or powered parameters because it will get me back up in the air at a price I can afford. In my opinion, one of the best things you could do with your vast aviation and engineering knowledge would be to develop a reasonably priced entry level plane, You'd enable many more pilots to get flying and stay flying or get back in to flying. Many get started but the cost of aviation in general drives them back out. Old, affordable planes become unaffordable because of the cost of maintaining an old, used airplane.
One more thing, you keep talking about getting new pilots into flying. Why not also focus on getting guys that used to fly back in to it. There is a vast wealth of experienced pilots out there that would probably love to get back in to it and pass on their knowledge if they had a reasonable way. Don't just look to the future but look to the past to create a new future.
I used to be in the EAA until I sold my RV-6A. I left because I couldn't bear to look at all the kits that were being built knowing that I had to give up on mine. I was a member of AOPA. The reason I left was that even though they did a lot for aviation, I felt they were not focusing on the little guy. I'd look at their magazine full of new airplanes and fancy avionics and realized that can't be sustainable. Anyways, not sour grapes. I'm not jealous of those that can afford those but I'm sad for those that can't and therefore can't enjoy the freedom and joy of aviation.
Food for thought: Flying gliders is still affordable and has a community of passionate aviators to connect with. For weekly flying fun, I find no better way to get in the air.
I feel the same about AOPA, and also the financial cliff that one must climb to get into aviation. I wanted to fly since I was a kid, but couldn't afford it until I was able to get in via light sport.
these two are very very much "rich men" so I doubt they have much of an obstacle bro. lol
I'm not rich, but I got my private a few years ago. It isn't cheap that's for sure, but it is obtainable.
speedy dad, i highly recommend powered parachute, i fly one, and its low cost, low speed, and the relaxing joy is well worth the 10 or 12 grand to enter the sport. No licensing, no inspections, no insurances, and great satisfaction, especially for older pilots.
Everyman's affordable airplane is the Patey sized challenge in my mind. Hard to quantify because it's different for everyone. But I can think of some good qualifications:
1 - Hangars are expensive. Trailerable, and make the trailer part of the support system for the plane. A 'portable shop' designed to support the aircraft, even disassemble major components
2 - 6 seats with tradeoffs in baggage weight, etc. Physics only goes so far
3 - Modular engine systems that are easily maintained
4 - Possibly inline twin for safety?
5 - A dramatically less expensive engine option - biggest challenge
6 - Printable components - make use of "maker" technologies such as plasma tables and 3D printing for most components
7 - 1,000 nm range
8 - 150 knots or greater
9 - Turbocharged for safety even in the flatlands. Climbing over weather becomes a possibility
10 - Dirt simple systems
I've been working on this for years. Lots of ideas.
Regarding the modular engines - I really want to see hybrid aviation. If you have a generator, batteries capable of keeping you in the air for *maybe* 30 minutes, and a pair of electromotors, you get a system that is almost impossible to suddenly lose an engine on. Electromotors can be pretty oversized for redundancy if one fails by some miracle. A genset that is scaled for some reasonable climb will give you range and backup for batteries while being lighter than an aviation-grade engine scaled for takeoff power. Batteries make sure that your genset is not a single point of failure, giving you the power boost for takeoff and the time needed to make the turn of death when needed.
I’m a retired Dual Rated Marine Corps pilot, with fixed wing ATP and 10,000 total hours, CFI/CFII. Worked the commercial helicopter business after the USMC for Bristow. Would LOVE to own my own plane, but that goes to my 3 comments:
1. Precious little is going right in GA.
2. What is going wrong? One word… lawyers…. As a 25 year active member of the Florida Wing CAP, I gradually became very disillusioned with the bureaucracy, over regulation, and paperwork requirements place on an “all volunteer organization”.
Costs for anything aviation related are at least 10x what they should because of “liability”…. It’s positively ridiculous. Involvement in GA seems to be reserved for the wealthy, and by that I mean zero malice toward folks like you guys. You earned every single nickel that you have imho.
3. I’m a member of CAP (retired now), former member of AOPA, and Life Member of the Marine Corps Aviation Association.
My responses pretty much paralleled yours. Aircraft cost, avionics, fuel, maintenance, insurance, and parts. I was CAP many years ago, I soloed in 1967 - in a C-150 the summer after I finished high school, at Mettetal airport in Plymouth Mich. I realize that inflation is off the charts, but you could buy a C-172 for an affordable price. The FAR's have reached epic elephantine proportions, and likely as you say written by lawyers and no doubt bureaucrats who don't know an elevator from an aileron. It would seem that perhaps the intent is to make it so expensive and so burdensome that general aviation is driven from the sky. Darn I wish I had the answers. Flying is in my blood, most of my career has been aviation oriented (03, USAF, but not flying- (Intelligence)) dad (and his crew) flew a B-17 out of the UK across the channel in 1944, and there is a picture of a very little me sitting in an F-86 with dads helmet down on my shoulders! I love flying but its now "unobtanium" for me, and I have self grounded as my eyes are not in good shape. I know that Mike and Mark are doing everything that they can to inspire.
My big request would be to help out the private airports that have a public use certificate, we are loosing airports all around the country! Certification standards and airport equipment is INSANELY expensive, making the business model tough! Sharp business savy folks like you could be a godsend to hundreds of local airports around the country!
Came here to say this exact thing. It’s insane how EVERY single airport within 100miles of me has NO hangar space. I have a citabria 7gcbc. Give me a grass strip and a cheap metal t hangar and I’d be happy. Even the private airports are full. Please!!! More hangar space.
I manage a small airport in Ohio and is really tough to keep the hangar prices reasonable when there the only source of income for a general aviation airport. I have so many ideas for how to bring in customers but find constant roadblocks with the owner who isn’t a pilot . It’s a struggle
I also had this idea! I hate to see the smaller airports going under. And get turned into houses.
2) help with sport pilot training it’s not easy finding instructors that want to do sport pilot training
3) back to my first one the county airports also need help keeping funding coming in for up keep.
4) medical reform for the faa, I have a medical for driving semis and have no problems with keeping it but can’t get a faa medical due to past medical issues and the faa wanting records that I can’t get anymore due to doctors not keeping them over 20 years
Member of EAA, COPA, ORAA. The slothfully slowness of the STC approval process. It's gotten slower since Covid in 2020 and now they've revised it to be slower yet. How can advances be made with such a hindering bloated system, even having a complete RTCA DO160 passed Series of testing. Should be a slam dunk at that point, especially having done a few 337 field approvals too.
The only sustainable way for the industry to flourish and the airports to make money is increase supply of hangar space
These 2 dudes are not human. How do I/we all get a fraction of the energy that feeds them and gives them this positivity.
Do you do know that Mark is a lifestyle coach/motivational speaker?
@@weschaeffler88 That doesn't surprise me.
ESTP Personality type. Good parenting. Good schools. (E.g. Good Philosophy).
kratom
Well their drive for hard work and success are huge motivators as they're built that way. And the multi multi millions they make off their success are motivators as they want more and aren't happy sitting stagnant.
So glad you're both ok! Absolutely yes to the Albatross!!
Guys, First of all thank you for all you do for GA! Been watching Mike for years and have had the pleasure of meeting both of you at Oshkosh and Sun And Fun. With your scary incidents we thank God you are both still with us! #1 Saving lives. Every year we loose way too many pilots, friends, and entire family’s in GA. The saddest thing is that so many of those accidents are totally preventable. I know this all hits very close to home with you both recently loosing Creighton King. I actually met him a couple times over the last several years and had spoken to him just last year at Oshkosh. What a great guy he appeared to me in just the little I knew about him. Tragic loss. I have been flying for nearly 25 years and believe Creighton is the first person I actually knew that had lost their life in an aviation accident. I don’t have the answers, and I do know there are great resources out there, such as the Air Safety Foundation and others, but we need to figure out something more. Something better, more effective, what ever how ever, to keep from having more accidents and deaths that could be prevented. Better training, better conditioning, more awareness, what ever it takes, we need to figure out a more effective way. You know Dan Gryder. Love him or hate him, he is very motivated and dedicated to this cause, and I do believe he has helped many pilots be safer, and more prepared for when something does happen, by using his You Tube channel and speaking events sharing AQP. As you both know at sometime, that something, will happen to you! #2 Saving lives, #3 Saving lives. Just my thought on priorities. Yes there are many other issues in GA that can use attention and I am sure you will get a lot of good ideas presented here. And yes there is a lot of great things going on for GA in very positive ways! I have been a member of AOPA, EAA, and RAF, for many years. I believe they all do great things for GA, although some struggle as they become so large. And Mike, for sure build the Albatross! And make sure Kermit Weeks is following. 😁 Thanks again guys! Hope to see you and say hi at Sun and Fun and Oshkosh. Best.
Mark Patey for Congress! I almost joke, but honestly I see a lot of challenges that come from the FAA and a lack of ability for the administrators of the FAA to relate and build relationships with GA. I think there is a lack of communication and they rely on confrontational ways of meeting the goals of safety in aviation. I truly believe that if the FAA was a solid partner with general aviation, and not just an enforcement agency, safety would increase and it would be easier to lead people into GA.
Outstanding idea! America needs can do men in Washington!
Mark Patey for the next president and CEO of AOPA.
Ahh, you’re all awesome 🤣👍. Thanks for the kind words.
@@801pilotI have a valiant idea to maximize impact. I just wish I knew an email address to send my ideas to you guys.
Military Veterans. Millions of hours of talent that have since fluttered.
Gonna try and find a direct line to call you guys. I have big ideas.
Mike Patey for president
When James Bond fantasizes about who he wants to be, he pictures Mike Patey.
Mark looks much faster, without a gallbladder.
The aviation community is lucky to have these two. Everyone is fortunate that these two are still well. Much love.
@pfsmith007: what Bond's Q was to gadgets, Mike Patey is to general aviation.
First off, I'm greatful you're both still alive! Your passion and joy for your work is contagious.
If you really want a BIG project, I have an idea! With the shortage of mechanics, especially in general aviation, I would like to see an online, or at least partially online, A&P training program. Lectures can easily be delivered through virtual classrooms or pre recorded. Pre recording has the benefit of editing for accuracy. Some labs could be completed in a garage or home workshop by sending materials to students. The students would then record themselves completing the work. Teachers would then review the videos and when it's done correctly, the student sends the material back to the school. This would work well for some smaller items about the size of a magneto. The bigger parts and projects that require more specialized tools would still require students to travel to a training facility. Training facilities could be either a centeral campus, or a partner school that teaches the hands on portion of this program. Alternatively, build a curriculum and license it to schools. A completely different way to accomplish this would be to use an online model to facilitate obtaining an A&P license through experience. Perhaps the student buys an airplane to be restored and pays a membership fee to have licensed mechanics advise and supervise the work. I think the hardest part would be satisfying the FAA because they tend to be risk averse.
Thank you for everything you both do for the GA community and for helping foster excitement in aviation and STEM for not only the folks already involved, but also for the next generation! Glad you get to continue together on this journey!
1. The community is very welcoming and inclusive. I'm relatively low-time and have had nothing but positive and enthusiastic interactions with everyone I've met in the GA world. The good side of social media helping spread the enthusiasm for GA
2. The concerning growth (possibly also the dark side of social) of NIMBY efforts caused at least in part by misinformation due to a lack of understanding as well as intentionally being misrepresented due to developers wanting to take over valuable real estate. Aviation in general isn't a cheap endeavor but the most recent issues highlighted in Vegas show other threat vectors to keeping GA for everyone
3. Not quite 5 years, but a member of and supporting both EAA and AOPA
And heck YES to the Albatross!
1. GA, as a whole, is still going strong.
2. The price of entry is very high, and it can be difficult to find good flight schools that aren't crazy expensive.
3. I've been a member of AOPA for nearly 10 years now.
Y'all will never lose our attention!
Mark, we are so blessed you are still with us and keep fighting the good fight.
This world needs you both.
You guys are really the essence of what I aspire to be! You guys are talking about leaving more behind, than 'just' showing us, you having fun. I can tell you, you guys 'just' having fun - has already moved thousands of people and everybody is praising your contribution to this wonderful world of aviation!
Thank you. Thank you for everything you have done and thank you for what you are going to do in the future! If I could, I would love to contribute to your questions, but I still have my PPL waiting for me in my near future! Thank you for moving my attention into aviation, there is no doubt in my mind that it is also where I will spend a lot of my time, for the rest of my life. Much love to both you, Mike, and you wonderful brother Mark and your beautiful families!
God speed and much respect from a young guy in Denmark!!
BACK TO WORK!! 💪
First off, I can not imagine aviation without either one of you in it, at this point. You are definitely the Rutan of this century. It is really awesome for my son and I to watch these videos and vicariously through your achievements and builds.
1. There are a LOT of things going right in aviation. There are so many opportunities out there, for young kids to get started in aviation (as a career and/or as a hobby/passion). There are channels, programs, classes, and seminars that promote safety, awareness, competency, and currency. The glass cockpits of today's world are a far cry from when I earned my license back in 1993. Although, maybe a reason why a lot of pilots are not honing those airman skills enough, as the GPS, software, and aids are doing it all for them, and in turn making us rely on them too much. ( NOT that is a bad thing!!!) but there is something to be said for going out and just flying stick and rudder, VFR dead reckoning every once in a while. Just like Juan Browne does. I guarantee he is a MUCH better 777 pilot, because of his hobbies. These builds that you do.... these aircraft push the boundaries of what was once available in dreams. KEEP IT UP!!!!!! You have given my love for aviation and helped me tremendously to pass it along to my son, which is heartwarming!!!! We are also ADHD, and it is so nice to see others excel, that also have this condition!
2. There are a LOT of things that are also going wrong in aviation!!! We are losing TOO MANY people to senseless crashes. Love him or hate him, But Gryder's AQP for GA is a BIG start!! So, is overhauling the overly bureaucratic FAA. Look at the Palmer case. Look at the senseless crashes that could be avoided if there was a more safety driven approach to the FAA's rules, guidance, and interaction. Yes, they are THE ones with the power. But, if something needs to be fixed, the FAA is known for throwing the judge's gavel at you, instead of mandatory retraining, or a safety driven approach. Mark, I know you probably are not wanting to get into politics, but the FAA needs an OVERHAUL!!!!!! We need to get more people to adopt the 3 strikes rule. I want Gryder to not have anything to post about!! I want us to be as accident free as we have ever been!!!
I would LOVE to see a A&P or a pilot school that has a more cost-effective way to get into for a young adult. As we all know, Aviation is a very expensive hobby, and one must swallow the pill and dues up front in order to even get the training to become what you have always wanted. Yes, I understand that's a utopian dream, but you said think BIG!!!
3. I was a member of the AOPA but have stopped several years ago. They have become over bloated with very high paid upper management, that does not have the best interests of GA in their dockets. I am a member of the EAA.
I have not flown in several years, as life got in the way. I retire in 3 years and have started my own business the first of the year. Like you both, I have a TON of goals. One of which is to build my own kit aircraft after I sign the ink on my retirement paperwork, along with my son (military A&P here). I watch every single video you and Mark put out, as well as Juan Browne, PremereOne Driver, Jimmy's World, Gryder, Trent Palmer, Mentour Pilot, My Layover Life, Smarter everyday, Practical engineering, and a TON of others.
My son and I WILL make it out to your open house with the cars/ aircraft, etc. in the next few years.
I say, that you both ARE already helping out GA and aviation as a whole !!!!! You have no idea how may fires of excitement and seeds that you and your families plant every single day!!!! Your enthusiasm, zest for life, love of God, Family, and Country, and your support of fellow LEO's, and public safety as a whole does NOT go unnoticed!! In a world where you can identify as a pencil, and that is accepted, you are a breath of fresh air.
Thank you.... seriously, thank you for ALL that you and your families have done, and will continue to do. I am SOOO thankful that you are both still here with us all! You do not know me from Adam, but you are both family, to us.
We look forward to see what you both come up with next and continue to wait for the next Patey video!! Rock on, gentlemen!!!
BACK TO WORK!!!!!!!!!💪💪
1. There's great momentum and community building going on general aviation right now.
2. General aviation still seems to be plagued with accidents and a high incident to death ratio.
3. No association affiliations.
I'm a fan of general aviation. I've had my face pressed against the glass, looking in at all the fun, for many years. From an outsiders perspective, here are the key barriers that I, or anyone in my position, will need to overcome in order to become an insider:
•Enormous financial startup costs and significant ongoing maintenance costs.
•Sometimes the "general" in general aviation makes it difficult to decifer which camp is right for me.
•Space. Aircraft kits are just to bulky to assemble. They are overly time consuming to build so a modest privateer like myself feels pushed toward entry level ultralights and less safe decision making.
My proposal for the Patey Bros:
• Design a GA aircraft that has zero kit components, rather, only accessible materials. One that is the safest in the skies. A plane that is a true quick build. Maybe it uses advanced adhesives instead of rivets. It needs to be jaw dropping cheap ($10-$15k) all in. It needs to operate like a conventional fixed wing aircraft as an ideal time/experience builder. It should be docile and intuitive with just enough delight in flight. It absolutely must be trailer friendly for at-home storage. Lastly, it needs to be a fine looking bird, with charm and simplicity that instills confidence and pride of ownership. The Volkswagen bug of the skies.
In short, I think the greatest contribution you two could give to GA is accessibility.
Love the channel, and so glad Mark is healthy. Best regards,
Ben
I agree completely. Flying should not have to be a life-or-death decision. Better technology could reduce the chances of the pilot making deadly errors.
100% nailed it. Flying is cost-prohibitive, and when something does go wrong in the air, the death ratio shows a HUGE gap in how we've handled the evolution of aircraft vs automobiles.
I know some people dislike ballistic chutes, but if an engine blows and you aren't near a viable strip, or a rookie pilot gets into a spin they can't recover, a parachute WILL save your life. And not just your life, but in many cases will preserve your plane as well (minus repairs). It just seems like such an easy cost-saver / life-saver, I don't understand why they aren't more widespread. Cirrus gets it. Many ultralights get it. It's high time the rest of GA/LSA does too.
@@thecheesedip I don't dislike Ballistic chutes but the repack costs are horrible, the Sirrus chute is 20k to inspect and repack.
@wb6anp sounds prohibitively costly. Crash structures are passive and can be extremely light and cost effective (f1 cars), there seems to be a pursuit of lightness and efficiency that's incompatible with crumple zones, roll cages, bolstered seating. If the aircraft can be designed for passive crash protection, it becomes sacrificial in a crash scenario. I'd be quite happy to walk away from a crash if my aircraft is a total loss...if it only costs $10-$15k.
@@rickwhite2567I have about a million miles of highway driving under my belt.
Technology does not help people keep their eyes on their surroundings. Too busy watching cameras or TV's or phones inside their vehicles. Just like flight eyes out unless imc.
What needs to happen is People paying attention. Driving at resonable speeds.
people paying attention.
people having consideration for other people around them
People paying attention.
People maintaining their vehicles.
People paying attention.
In my opinion if you can't pay attention to what is going on around whatever vehicle you are in, you shouldn't be controlling a vehicle. It should be a privilege and not an entitlement.
Mike and Mark Patey are my two best HEROES! God Bless you and yours!
1) The GA community as a whole is just amazing at helping new pilots/builders and are just really wholesome people
2) I’m starting to see a lot on negative with GA when it comes to training. Many schools are just trying to get students out the door and off on their way without really going in depth on particular subjects such as spins. I am 19 years old and have only about 50hrs TT in GA and many more in ultralight flying and I can say for a fact that most new pilots aren’t getting all the information they need to be safe competent pilots. I am also 2 semesters in at my A&P school and have been doing a lot of research on crashes lately and many are maintenance issues and that includes avionics upgrades as well. The other issues with maintenance is in the RUclips side of things, many channels are starting to restore aircraft on a “budget” and those two things don’t go together well.
3) I am a member of AOPA and EAA!
Thanks you guys for everything! I’ve been following y’all since the beginning and truly appreciate everything y’all do! BACK TO WORK 💪
You guys are amazing! I love your thoughtfulness and drive to create.
Your bond as twins is an incredibly special thing that most of the world will never understand. My dad is a twin (his name is Mark and my uncle's name is Mike!), and to this day they still experience uncanny things and know things about each other that neither of them should rightly know, even when they're separated from each other. I have no doubt, Mike, that your voice and presence when Mark was in the ICU is what brought him back (as I'm sure you know). The presence of family can help access the deepest memories and feelings your body holds and can give you an incredible amount of strength when you need it most. This hold more true for twins than with almost any bond I have ever observed. As an observer of your life, it is an incredible inspiration to see what you and Mark have done with your families and careers. Thank you for sharing a piece of your life with us, and thank you for your continued service to your fellow man!
My dad is a GA pilot, brother is a commercial pilot, and I am just starting flight training and building a kit experimental helicopter in parallel. My experience in GA is limited as I am just getting started. The cost of GA has been a huge deterrent for me.
1. What's going right? Without question, the community. Aviation brings people together and for the most part is filled with extremely generous individuals who are happy to share their passion and support others, whether it's taking someone up on their first flight, or helping someone with their home built. I am sure you both will get a lot of support in making GA better for everyone because we are all in this together.
2. What's going wrong?
2.1 The cost of GA has far out paced the wages in the last 20 years. My father was able to buy and fly plane as a middle class individual, but I don't think that is possible today. Light sport, and experimental kits seem to be the only real entry point, and even then, it's still pretty expensive. Reducing the regulations might make things cheaper, but at the cost of safety? I don't know what the solution is. Operating cost is huge when you consider annuals and purchasing certified parts. Not everyone should be working on their own planes, but for those who enjoy building and maintaining planes a much as we fly them, there should be a solution for those individuals.
2.2 Finding quality flight instructors. Many of them are using it for time building. Turnover is huge and the training is poor.
3. I haven't been part of an association for more than 5 years.
The albatross idea sounds awesome! Go for it! You guys are awesome, God bless you two!
You guys are amazing and are a prime example of what is great about our industry. You guys have to keep going and being you!!
1. What’s going right. Advancement in technology and practices. We’re just getting into the good stuff in aviation. Bush planes are performing at levels never imagined all the way to commercial airliners are flying higher, faster and cheaper than ever before and everything in between.
2. What needs fixing. I’ve been in aviation since I was 7. You name it, I’ve basically worked on it or flown in it. I’ve helped set up 145 repair stations and run MRO’s. I can say the biggest worry I have is the new generation of people coming into this and taking it over. A lot of them see this as a job and not a life. There isn’t the passion we had. I’ve been working at giving that passion to anyone coming in and on the fence about whether or not it’s right for them. I really want to do more as well. I think the right path or adventure with the new generation can turn it around.
3. What association. Again. I’ve been doing this my whole life. I have an A&P. I’m an IA and a pilot with a bachelors degree. I’ve been part of AOPA for a long time as well as the EAA. I’ve donated time and parts to the industry as well as taught new folks coming in.
I currently work for an airline as a heavy maint tech rep and have time and would love to help in any way you guys can use it if needed and wanted. Please guys stay safe and keep forging ahead!!
Hi guys. A UK based guy here. I think you already give back a tremendous amount by sharing your lives, builds and aviation experiences with the world, evidenced by the comments you receive on every post I have watched over the years.
However, in the UK there is a charity called Aerobility that you might like to Google. I think something similar in the US fronted by Icons like yourselves would be huge. Just think of the joy you could bring to individuals less fortunate than ourselves. All the best to you in finding your way forward with these fantastic aspirations. You guys are amazing.
WOW, I had no idea we almost lost Mark!! Thank God he pulled through that! Great project lineup, fellas - can’t wait to see them all.👍👍
Not being funny or anything, but why would you thank god? We should be thanking the doctors and nurses and other emergency services staff that saved him. Or Marks body for pulling through.
@@MrOvertSandStormdo you not recognize God in this story? How he pulled thru miraculously, or when the brothers talk about "what's important?"
@@jefferyg3504 No I don't. I'm pretty agnostic to atheist, so I never think about 'god'. Surely this happened through the skill and wonder of modern scientific medicine, and by the chemistry of Mark's body, which was able to recover during his time in intensive care. In this day and age, you honestly believe this was divine intervention? These are my thoughts anyway, not trying to insult anyone.
God certainly had a hand in this. You have to know that God has been and will be in chef from the beginning to the end.
@@jefferyg3504 With some, “You can lead a horse to water …” .
Awesome video guys. As a Critical Care Paramedic, I see lives changed in an instant. So glad you both are here to continue giving back.
1. TRAINING! We are losing too many lives in General Aviation. Why do we keep killing ourselves, but 135 and 121 pilots have a stellar safety record? I am 52 and started my pilot journey just 3 years ago. I have less than 500 hours but I can attest, that training simply got me in the air. I've had to purposefully seek out further training away from learning maneuvers. Upset recovery is great, but what are the things that are likely to kill me. I take my wife, kids and grandkids flying and it weighs heavy on me the responsibility I have to keep them safe. We desperately need a structured training program for pilots far away from the training it takes to get the certificate. I see people discuss "AQP" and other acronyms and while I don't think the name matters, I think it it very clear we need more training on deadly scenarios. Let's focus on what is taking out GA Pilots and then create a structured training program to create muscle and brain memory to react to those scenarios.
You guys are the greatest! I have met you a couple times at OSH (Mike, you and I had a long conversation at the B&C booth a few years ago - you are as personable and passionate as you are in your videos+++), (Mark you and I discussed tugs "at an affordable range for the < 40k aircraft people). I love how much both of you have contributed to the advancement and safety (and training) in aviation things that I have interests in. I know you are involved with gobs of other things also! I am certain your heart and "give back" mindset makes those ventures as fantastic as you have made your contributions to me!!!
I try to be like you when working on projects (others and my own) getting people involved and making a difference.
As far as the list:
1) We are so fortunate in the US to have these freedoms to get so involved with aviation. I have lived and visited other countries. One does not grasp this until you hear what THEY have to do in order to do aviation things!
2) I am concerned about the reductions of requirements in A&Ps and the forecasted shortages. Watching what Boeing has gotten in trouble with (focusing on margins over safety and pushing timeframes to "get things out the door" (from a friend of mine that works for Boeing). I am seeing MANY of the "old" A&P/IA retiring (or just throwing up their hands and saying it is not worth the stress/frustration/etc.). I have enough hours and have signoff to take my tests - I have NEVER worked on pressurized cabins, turbine, and jet engines... yet I am REQUIRED to know what I am doing! #3 will go into what I would like to happen.
3) a) Make a catagory of A&P/IA that is GA specific (say up to 12,000 lbs and not jet/turbine) [kinda like the SLA Rotax program]
b) Make MOSAIC like what it originally was intended. Be able to introduce experimental like things (e.g. glass cockpit, engine swaps, other mods) for certified non training aircraft. We used to be able to do that, then it was shut down (pretty much when experimental aircraft (from scratch) really took off. There are a LOT of aging aircraft that will remain on the ramps and dusty in hangers as bringing them back with original parts is just no longer feasible (availability as well as cost when they can be found is HIGH).
c) Like the idea of extending the SLA to include some of these aging plans (makes more sense than the "ya gotta by a 300k airplane to be SLA because all the Luscombe and ercoupe C are sold" - HOWEVER, not so sure I like the mcDonalds menu of options.
d) Shortage of instructors NOT going into the airlines. As the demand for airline pilots go up (and hr requirements go down), the turnover rate at airports that I am involved with has a MUCH higher turnover rate that I have ever seen. If the Govt has 7.4 billion dollars to give away to college students that took useless college courses (and now cannot get a good job to pay them off) - the purse strings should be opened to the aviation world to encourage LONG TERM instructors some how.
e) Help EAA get focused on EXPERIMENATAL aircraft - rather than "anything aviation". I feel that they have lost Paul Poberezny objective and now have become an "if it makes us money we are in" (as I open my 3rd solicitation for money mail from them this week).
Best of luck (and health) to the two of you and your supporting families in so you can continue to inspire and encourage people to be like you!
M.
1) The community of GA is wholesome and welcoming.
2) The entry and financial help for blue collar working Americans. Most scholarships are based around high school/college students (which is great!) But severely limits men and women that wish to accomplish their dreams later in life. Certified low cost workshops even for the ground portion would be a immense help. Who doesn’t work with someone that says “I always wanted to be a pilot, but could never afford it”
3) I only started flying two years ago so no memberships at this time.
Be careful we still need You guys!!!😮😢😊
Mark, your story resonates with me. Seven years ago I went down with sepsis. I was a different bacteria but it leveled me. I was one sick puppy and the doctors told my wife I may not make it. I spent two week in hospital, but am still here. I am glad you are too.
YES on the Albatross!!!!!! One of my favorites. Team with Margaritaville and call it the Hemisphere Dancer II.
I agree! Phins Up!! Always! Hard to believe Jimmy is in his beach house on the moon. Hemisphere Dancer II, has such a nice ring! 🦈to the left! 🦈to the right, I'm the only girl in town!! 🌴🦜
I’ve been a private pilot for about 3 1/2 years. 630 hours. Working on IR currently.
What’s going right in GA?
The freedoms to fly that we ave in America are incredible.
GA opens up so many amazing opportunities.
What’s going wrong? This list is longer.
It’s gotten cost prohibitive.
Hangars are virtually impossible to come by.
FAA medical needs a complete overhaul.
Instruction is primarily done by youngsters who are just building hours and not fully dedicated to instruction.
I’ll reiterate; it’s gotten cost prohibitive for the common man/woman to buy, fly, and maintain an aircraft.
I own a couple of businesses and do pretty well and it’s still a stretch to operate my 182. I don’t know what can be done to change that, but the barrier to entry for GA is insurmountable for many.
I am HONESTLY worried when the (Insane, Literally) government tries to take that right away from us. I'm very serious too!!!
1. Whats going right in Aviation - positive social media (ex. You Both, Cletus and Dave Sparks). Whats going wrong in Aviation - the actual cost for the average citizen (license, flight time / training). Not enough people around us to support said adventure. 3. 5 year falloff is real, 3 year fall off is real, in fact 2 year falloff is most likley if your #2 is not met. You just become a spectator, ill watch and research type of person, wish i could type of person,a rc plane type of person. As close as i can get type of person.
You guys are awesome. Love watching the channel and how you show everything you guys are doing with your builds. I fly for a corporate flight department, part 91 only but my family and I have been a part of aviation and especially GA for several generations. GA is still a great community, but like others have said the price to play is very high. Another aspect of GA, and aviation as a whole, that needs help is medical certificates. Medicals are a necessity, but they can also be very stressful and not helpful. This includes addictions, medication usage and phycological/depression issues. Many pilots have to hide these things in order to keep their medical and jobs instead of dealing with the issues. There has been some work done and options available but these still have a sense of being unsure, take a really long time, and again can be stressful!! Work in this area would be helpful for a lot of pilots. I've been part of AOPA for 20+ years, along with all of our pilots in our department and our department is active in several safety organizations for corporate and GA aviation. Keep up the good work you two!
I must admit, I had tears in my eyes when Mark talked about his near death experience. Good to see you're back at it!
My greatest thought about aviation where I live, Norway, is that it's extremely expensive. Not many have funds to own their own aircrafts, and the few clubs available have not that many "time share" aircrafts as I call them. You buy a piece of the craft and share all expenses on it, and have limited time to the aircraft for flying. This works, but there should be more available, and prices should be more manageable.
I really want my own motorized glider. My grandfather was a WW2 fighter pilot and one of his biggest dreams was for me to become a pilot myself. When my time came for mandatory military service, the military placed me in the Navy. (Not complaining, I've had loads of fun and it have opened many doors for me later on). But my ticket to a pilot license and the actually use for it went out the window as I kind of relied on getting on through the military.
Now, as I've become older, past my 40's and racing close to 50. I'm in a good place with family, work, financial etc. But aircrafts are still CRAZY expensive here in Norway, and gliders are a bit cheaper. And... another reason for me wanting to get a glider is... My grandfather always wanted me to start with gliders from I was 16 years old, but my parents did not approve of it. Norway is a beautiful country from both land and air, and sailing above, relaxing and "disconnect" from work is a dream for me.
So, option 2 is probably the only thing I can answer you on that can give a meaningful output.
If Mark (or both of you) start a "Time Share" aircraft leasing business to help others into getting up in the air. You could stand as the majority owner of a craft, and have spots open for others. This might be a way into getting more active pilots... Might also be a paper nightmare with lawyers, so you should consider the drawbacks as well.
PS: If I'm one of the random to get a gift. Please donate to something Children's Hospital ore something similar. I'm always donating to an organization called "Stiftelsen Sykehusbarn" here In Norway.
1) We have a shortage of A&P ... possibly sponsor people into this critical element of Aviation... help folks see this as a worthy life goal ... 2) What can you do to help us kit builders who don't have your level of knowledge and confidence complete successfully ? what seminars could you hold or workshops ? ... the kit arena is so necessary given the cost of cert. planes ... helping to grow would be wonderful. 3) Maybe become your own honor system where you award builders / Pilots with recognition having completed necessary work through your efforts. You two are amazing ... I really appreciate you and your individual and collective efforts ... thanks !
The biggest problem being an A&P is pay and the up/down cycles of aviation as a whole. I left being an A&P and went into the medical field, much better pay, never have to get skydrol in my eyes, never have to work outside in -15 to 100 degree temps, No getting stuck between the rudder pedals of a lear 35.... When I got out of A&P school McDonalds was paying more than 1/2 of the industry. In 2000 our shop rate was $55 hr for piston and $65hr for turbine work. Most auto dealerships were charging $90-130hr. Remember the old saying the only reason you can't find people is because you're not paying enough! Pay and they will come!
Its hard to survive on A&P wages these days, combined with the liability and bureaucracy it kills the passion pretty quickly. I still work in aviation, but won't be touching civilian aircraft for the foreseeable future. Even when I do, I hope its only my own homebuilt, if I ever get around to building one.
Apologies for not having any current suggestions. I used to fly- was knocking out the last steps to get my license but got too expensive. There isn’t much you can do about that. But, I tune in because I love the content and the “get back to work drive.” Much respect to the both of you and to your families. You are truly just good people.
God bless you both! Thank you for all of efforts in aviation. Looking forward to your plans!!
What’s most amazing is that there are two of you. Keep up the outstanding work.
Wow guys… what an absolute miracle. As a paramedic, I have a very good understanding of how serious this was. I’m so thankful that you are still here with everyone, Mark. Even though I have never met either of you (yet) I care very much about y’all. Praise God for such a miracle!!!
You two make me wish my brother liked me. What a joy having your best pal as a coworker, and business partner.
I think they have their faults, but their attributes is they are rational, calm, and clear-headed which augments their relationships. No doubt they're good and well meaning dudes.
yeah.. im only 23 and my bro is 25, havent talked to him in 2 years. this stuff gets me man. im just glad theyre alive though. these guys are such an inspiration
I'm happy both of you are here among us! I really like the idea of the modernized "Van-Life" Albatross!
Areas to Address:
Reduce the overall costs for flying a plane-
1. Economical GA airplane power plants- The Diesel engine (EPS Aero) is a huge loss for GA.
It could have been a family of extremely reliable, reasonable engines (4-8 cyls) which could be retrofitted into older airframes / kitplanes and deliver a reasonable per hour costs of flying. Perhaps resurrect the project and figure out how to make production affordable.
Include propeller pitch control... The reduced pilot workload of a water cooled, single lever engine operation could attract new pilots.
2. A PC based Arduino/PC flight panel that is reasonably priced to be able to retrofit into older airplanes & new build kits. Something with pre-assembled wiring harnesses to make quick and fast installation for the most popular aircraft in GA.
3. Get the FAA to set a maximum limit liability for GA lawsuit awards.
All the best,
M-
Wow, this is one of your best videos yet.
1. Aviation information is so easy to obtain these days.
2. There seems to be a lot more accidents these days. They also seem to be easily avoidable ones as well
3. Your influence in general aviation is already amazing. I could see you being a voice to pilots, NSTB and FAA. Training for GA needs a voice that you possess.
I’ve been a member of AOPA and AMA (RC) for years
I’m glad you made it Mark. We need people like you around.
Glad you're both still here - the world would be worse off without you!
I am glad the both of you are OK. You are an inspiration for all of us amateur builders and business owners, or at the very least to me!
As for your questions, I am most interested and hopeful in what is coming down the pipe with MOSAIC. I think expanding the Light Sport category is a great idea. I would love to see the sport category regulations include more advanced aircraft, similar to Europe, where a constant speed prop or even retractable gear are allowed. I have high hopes for what the future holds in the world of LSA's (OK, I mostly fly LSA's and both aircraft I have built/am building qualify as LSA's, so that is a particular interest of mine). Many people seem to discount the light sport arena, but I think it has a lot to offer, especially in the experimental realm. Plus, I think options like the Light Sport Repairman are a great thing, opening doors for people to be more involved with their own aircraft and helping keep costs of ownership down, making aviation more accessible to more people. It even has started a whole new business path for folks wanting to be aviation mechanics, which is great considering the world today.
The biggest concern I have is around medical certification for airmen. I am switching to BasicMed as it meets my needs, so I am happy that there has been some improvement in this arena. The issue I see is one of fairness. I know several pilots who have had medical incidents that are 'disqualifying' and lost their flying privileges with no hope for getting them back. In almost all of these cases there would be no risk at all for operating a LSA or other GA aircraft, but due to the circumstances, the FAA has denied a medical and that is that. Hard stop. Meanwhile, with a slightly different set of circumstances, I know of other pilots who still fly with virtually identical histories who can just operate under either BasicMed or the LSA 'drivers license' requirements. This raises a huge issue where someone who is more than competent and medically capable is not allowed to fly, where another, who is in the same boat, is. I would love to see someone push on the FAA to reform the medical regulations to make them more inclusive to folks who have had issues but are fully recovered and can have medical professionals back that claim. This is a huge issue and I know of several folks who have really been beaten down by the FAA on this despite full medical clearance from multiple professionals. I do understand that for a professional ATP pilot, caution needs to be taken around medical issues or conditions, but for someone wanting to fly a LSA or a 172, it's a different story.
OK, I'll get off my soap-box. As for the third question, I am a long-time EAA member (15+ years), and have visited several local chapters, and in the past was much more active in the local chapter. I am also a long-time AOPA member (also 15+ years), but not very active on that front.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do! I look forward to seeing the next big projects you guys both bring to fruition!
Mike and Mark, your message hits home hard, both the carpe diem, and the awe of what aviation can give us. I'm a 1300 hour SEL pilot, grew up in central Alaska, dad was a government health aid worker, rescue mountaineer, glider pilot, glider instructor, CAP volunteer pilot, and had a Taylorcraft that we adventured in when I was a teen. I taught him how to snowboard when he was 65 and he became a certified instructor at 70, teaching in Utah. Sadly, he died the next year. Got my license at age 34 in a C-140 taildragger. Dad said if I could learn in a taildragger, they'd just seem like airplanes, not some exotic threat. That was some of the best advice I ever took. I helped a friend build a Glasair Sportsman, and have ended up owning and modifying two Glastars, rigging the latest one one with a T3 tailwheel and 31" Alaska Bushwheels, and touring the backcountry in my home state of Alaska.
1) I feel so privileged that I've been able to keep a license, and own two airplanes, and move freely from certified to EAB. Compared to many places, GA is incredibly open in the US. But there's a lot to do to keep it that way.
2) It's not that hard to argue that insurance has more power over us pilots than government, and that's a tough problem. I'm trying to set up my 17 year old son to learn in the same plane I learned in, a Cessna 140 -- a certified aircraft! used for training for decades -- and literally EVERYTHING is lined up to make it work, yet insurance may literally have the final say about whether he can live that dream or not. Seems pretty wrong.
2a) I think every small airplane on the planet should have calibrated audio angle of attack with at least three if not FOUR distnict audio signal levels, and the practice of landing to proper lift reserve should be integrated 100% into fundamental training for EVERY STUDENT PILOT. Landing to a well calibrated audio angle of attack keeps the pilot's eyes ENTIRELY outside the plane, automatically compensates for loading and density, and yet delivers the most consistent, safest information to the pilot to create safe landings in essentially every condition. If you need a high performance STOL landing, the audio angle of attack comes closer to guaranteeing it than anything else I've experienced. Plus, properly training the initial super-conservative AoA audio levels can be used to keep the aircraft completely out of the stall-spin zone. Distracted or simply unrefined student accidentally comes too close to spin/stall in a poorly executed pattern? first level Audio AoA comes on and student has been trained to automatically lower the nose and add power no matter what. Out of trouble just like that. I have never seen a more powerful tool for keeping landings consistently controlled and pilots safe. What if all landings by every pilot were safer? Heck, might even help with the insurance issue.
3)I'm an AOPA member and an EAA member for many years, and I've been a Young Eagles pilot for many kids, and mentored many of them into deeper involvement in aviation.
Thank god you’re both still with us, the world would be worse off without either of you.
Both Mike and Mark have already done SO MUCH for aviation... I can't even fathom asking them for more. They've been incredible ambassadors for General Aviation and are 2 of the best guys to ever come out o Utah. Love them both.
True brothers love! Family is life! Keep friends close and family closer! Cant wait for more content!
Glad y’all are healthy and are able to be around to share your love but also be here for your families.
Nothing changes the direction of your life more than a near death experience. Glad you both get another chance. Thanks for sharing!
I, too, have had a near death issue. Started vomiting, then went to bed with a bucket. 6 days later, I wake up in recovery with a lovely nurse saying the 2 neurosurgeons went up my nose & took my swollen, bleeding with a benine tumor piturity gland out. They said I am 1 in 2.5 million that survive. I love your channel's Mike & Mark....😊
Good to hear you survived. How is your recovery doing and if i may ask how did you get to the hospital?
@@dontknow3886 helicopter a Kawasaki.
Recovery is slow. My life has done a complete 360....
Wow!! Me too! Some plaque broke loose and plugged my Widow maker. I was dead for 4 minutes. Thank god my wife was sitting there or I wouldn't have survived! I was in ICU for 5 days as well. They were really worried about my brain surviving Annoxia! I was a healthy fit guy and I never had angina. I got sick at the kitchen sink , threw up, sat on the couch and died. I then spent two weeks in a rehab center and I recovered quickly. Wonderful surgeon and everyone who saved me. I feel so lucky to be here!! 😁
I can add my 2cents. Notice the small improvements and work on being grateful. Have short term and long term goals that include other's help and planning. Being close to death gives you a valuable insight.
I noticed that when my goals get put out there they end up being answered prayers. I am pretty careful about my requests these days.
Keep on getting better.
@kensnyder2340 Yes, Ken, was a real eye opener as I just went to bed, slept, then awoke. They also said this was happening over a 8 year period. Ever so slowly going downhill, without ever noticing. Only two things that i did notice was I couldn't click my fingers and couldn't whistle. Never thought anything of it...???
So glad to hear that you both experienced miracles! It’s great to hear updates and can’t wait to hear what you do to impact aviation even more!
You guys are amazing & just blow my mind. Love watching you both - and am obviously glad you both are doing well !!!
1. I’m retired aerospace. My father was a WWII vet who was a gunner on B-17s, later a Mechanic on P-47s. He always got us involved in Model Rockets, U-control model airplanes and RC model airplanes. For me this involvement resulted in a 35 year career in aerospace on some pretty awesome programs. Today, I still fly Model RC airplanes. What I notice in our club is there are no youngsters at all, just retired old guys. If you can figure out how to attract young people into aviation, whether it’s Model aviation or general aviation, that would create great possibilities, good times and possibly awesome careers. Please do something to get youngsters jazzed and involved in aerospace.
2. Safety seems to be a problem in commercial aircraft lately, this sucks and is dragging down the industry.
3. I’m a long time member of AMA, American Modelers Association, does this count, lol.
Love you guys, glad you are both ok.
gov regulation is killing the RC hobby and aviation. too much BS and cost for no reason.
Almost the exact same suggestion as me. I'm an engineer, not really an aviation nerd, but I got my drive for engineering when I was little from working on various projects with my dad. It has driven my whole career. Most people do not have any real passion, or very little drive. I want to see youth outreach programs to get kids interested as early as possible. Could be model airplanes, could be general aviation maintenance, etc. I just want kids to find something they're passionate about and make a career out of it instead of working meaningless jobs they hate for the rest of their lives.
Cost of entry to GA is too high, wages too low.
Nobody's thinking about owning an aircraft when they are having trouble putting food on the table.
Model aircraft are not exactly affordable either, and at least in Canada it's more trouble (paperwork) to fly model aircraft than it is to fly a real one, if you can even find a field you're allowed to fly at.
The kids that are getting into aviation now are doing so in front of their computer screens, with simulators and RUclips videos.
I was also in the aerospace industry, worked at Rocketdyne space engine division. I am also an rc flyer in the Boise area.
I have always enjoyed aviation, but i too have kept my experience strictly to rc models both planes, jets, and helicopters. Member of the AMA past 7 years
Thank you for inviting comment. I am a 65 yo retired NZ salesman, private investigative author & blogger, with no aviation involvement but I love your honesty and enthusiasm for your passion for aviation. I joined your channel because of Mark's build videos. Whatever you choose to do, please ensure that those videos still keep coming.
Amen!!
This was an amazing story of Marks brush with death, it is so scary that it happened, but so glad that he survived and came back to this world, it proves he is not finished with his work on this planet yet. I am glad to hear you are both wanting to do more to help the aviation community. I am in Canada and I am a aircraft mechanic, and I have a few hours in towards my private pilots license.
The good things I see in aviation are all the people who are out there willing to help, you see it through events like airshows, fly-ins, seminars. Also the new technology that is being made available for aviation. A lot of it is expensive and so takes time to access, but things are advancing. And the fact that people are seeing aviation as a interesting industry to get into, and not think of it as for some weird wingnuts.
The bad things is definitely regulations. I know that things have to be done right, but I have seen that because of some people in the past cutting corners or doing things wrong and having a problem, it puts more burden on the rest of us as the regulators find ways to close loopholes. I still see accident reports where people are pushing the limits or not doing things properly and causing accidents. We need to do more to share experiences to hopefully prevent the next guy from having an accident. I personally tell stories to the apprentices of things I have heard or seen in the past to plant things in there heads to hopefully save them in the future.
Mike and Mark you are both incredible role models for everyone in the aviation community, and by having this discussion you are helping aviation already just by starting the conversation. Keep up the good work, and Glad you are doing well Mark. Keep up the great videos and love watching all the stuff you show us from the house build to the airplanes and stories also.
Thanks for asking and the community’s support. I believe that there should be a more accessible way to get help with overcoming the mental trauma of a in a incident or scare as this can be a big turn away from getting back in the air or for allowing others by influencing others thoughts through passing on bad experiences. As well as this I strongly believe that greater encouragement of recruitment of aviation engineers throughout all the sectors of aviation as after the pandemic the industry has taken a massive hit especially in the engineering and maintenance sectors.
Thanks again for your great videos and constantly working with and sharing with the community.
The big things that would help with general aviation: 1. Mental health reform with FAA. 2. Bringing down aircraft and insurance costs. Those two things will do wonders for getting more people into aviation. The cost for second hand aircraft over the last 10 years (last 3-4 specifically) has gone up significantly, which has barred me personally from pursuing an aircraft purchase.
Back in the early 70's my dad was seaplane fishing on a lake in Canada and came across a guy with a PBY Catalina converted into a RV/motorhome. It had a full bathroom with a gravity shower, master bedroom, and kitchen. He told my dad he was considering putting turbines on it instead of the Pratt & Whitneys, who knows what became of it? YES Build it and film IT!!!!!
Two amazing individuals! Good bless you both.
Hi Mike and Mark. First of all thank you for being aviation pioneers of our generation, ya'll are living legends. I am inspired and a big fan.
My name is Leso from South Africa. I am a certified FAA A&P+IA and private pilot.
I only have one suggestion, and it is as follows:
1. Being an Aircraft Mechanic for a good amount of years and a passionate aviator, my biggest concern and fear is a catastrophic engine failure.
I commend Rotax for the development of the new engines to help the entry flying market with new, affordable and reliable engines.
Take nothing away from the traditional engine marker like Lycoming and Continetal their engines stood the test of time but the fact is that something has to be done about the recent spike in engine failures that leads to loss of lives of the inexperienced student pilots. Yes we overhaul the engines but what is not noted or spoken about is the bad habits the engines had to endure in operation for the last 50 years. Metal has memory.
Solution. Mark and Mike, please look into building a new aviation engine and get STCs for such engines to be used on all or most of traditional trainer airplanes.
I am a member of Aviation Development Africa and EAA.
Thanks for the opportunity to add our input and thank you both for your passion about growing GA.
#1 - The community in GA is growing and vibrate
#2 - Serious shortage in GA mechanics, issue with small airports not being properly managed and driving people out due to lack of hangars
#3 - Member of EAA and AOPA
and cost of hangers, the cheapest near me is 300/month and that is on a private strip, most common is 600 to 1400 even those have a 2 yr or more waiting list. I have been considering selling my house and finding enough property somewhere big enough to build a strip and a house, it would be cheaper in the long run.
I'm happy that you're doing well now Mark. There's something to be said about the power of twins.
Mark/Mike, happy to hear you are both well, and always inspired by your passion, kindness, ingenuity, and drive. I’m a young engineer in KY with a RUclips-Only pilots license and excited to one day make it real. Here are some thoughts of someone viewing from the outside looking in.
1) The Good: The universal sense of community and inclusion, no other following is as welcoming and supportive. How universally serious the aviation community takes training, safety, and improving, no one jokes about this. A sense of freedom, nothing else can make you feel limitless reach and exploration as flying an aircraft. Incorporating STEM as an essential and natural path to learning to fly, such a great way to teach young kids, the aviation program at my high school helped me find my passion for engineering. But most of all, the amazing, crazy, out of this world PATEY builds.
2) The Bad: As passionate as I am, prepared to do the work , ready to pay for training to become a pilot, I can no longer ignore the reality of my concerns for safety. I used to think I understood the risk, but seeing so many AMAZING and CAPABLE people lose their life scares me. Suddenly I hear thoughts like, “is it really worth it”, “would I even want to take my family”, “can it really happen to anyone?”, “maybe I shouldn’t”. When I see pilots orders of magnitude more experienced than I’ll ever be, finding themselves in life threatening circumstances, that is not a good reality. Yes, there’s always a mis-step, mistake, or reason for these incidents. But if our best pilots make them, I will too. . Honestly, I am surprised there isn’t a more widely used life saving feature in the industry to at least provide a buffer from the risk of great harm. (the parachutes seem promising?) To make it worse, I’m just viewing on RUclips, how many more tragic stories are not publicized on the internet. I wonder how many others are hesitating to get involved when we see so many tragic stories of good people.
For Mark’s recommendations, I think I’ll leave that to those more involved in the aviation world already. But I know for certain, you both have an immense impact on the growth of GA and even more so on my life. I think I speak for many when I say we appreciate you and your family. Please take care of yourselves and enjoy life!
(Currently not in any clubs/memberships)
So glad you're still both okay, you make the world a better place.
The friendship between you two is very inspiring as a father of 2 boys. I always emphasize to them that they'll have eachother for life and that's the most precious thing. You guys are exactly what I would like them to be when they grow up, not necessarily in terms of financial success, but just how you treat your family.
Thanks guys for being such good influences for aviation!!
1. Mosaic a good thing
2. Shortage of a&p’s
3 lifetime member EAA
You guys are awesome, keep up the good work, stay safe and healthy, blue skies ! ❤
Long-time follower and huge fan of all you do. 1) Safety is what is going right in aviation. Accident rates are coming down thanks to improved training, better avionics, access to in-flight aviation and traffic. 2) The list for improvements in aviation is long but we all know that the pilot community will only survive and improve if we grow the number of pilots flying. The list you guys suggested is great. You know the hot topics, plane cost, fuel cost, regulations preventing technology from being quickly adopted into new and used planes, airport closures is a huge problem, hangar access, etc. This list leads to my recommendation for Mark. He needs to replace Mark Baker as AOPA President since announcing his departure in January. I don't think anyone would be a better advocate for pilots than Mark Patey. Mark has the business skills to manage and motivate a large organization. You understand the problems. You are an inspiration for new and old pilots (the cool factor is there). You are well known and have the respect of active pilots and many of those wanting to get their license. 3) I am a lifetime member of AOPA and EAA and I am also a member of the Coeur d'Alene Flyers, Idaho Aviation Association, and Fitchburg Pilots Association. Do it Mark!
1) You two and other fun aviation content creators are the best thing happening in aviation right now. You’re stoking energy in the industry and introducing flying to new people.
2) By far the biggest expense of owning an airplane is the cost of the hangar, and they are usually dreary places to hang out. Perhaps you duplicate your Spanish Fork hangar complex in airports across the country.
2.1) Aircraft engines are the second biggest expense. Perhaps you could buy the EPS company and bring the diesel piston to market for the GA industry?
Hi guys…I’m somewhat of a newcomer to aviation (got PPL in 20’s and then stopped flying for 20 years before deciding to become a pro pilot in May of last year) and I’ve been really enjoying your videos.
1. What’s going right in aviation? Well…in my world, the thing that is going right for me and the thousands of guys that have flocked to my channel is that the career opportunities in aviation have never been better. If you want to fly as your profession, this is literally the best time in history to do it.
2. What’s going wrong in aviation? From my POV, there is a few things that need fixing. #1 is the DPE shortage. The fact that pilots have to wait months for a check ride is nuts. #2 is the cost of training. Most schools tell students that they should expect to spend $100K and train for 12-18 months to become a CFI. That is nuts. I went from PPL to CFI in 91 days for $47K. Considering that most pilots become a CFI in approximately 250-270 hours, why on earth does it need to cost so much and take so long? 270 hours divided by 180 days is only 1.5 hours of flying a day. Bottom line: I think flight schools are broken and students are paying the price (literally).
3. I’m a member of NAFI…but only recently.
Should you choose to work on any of the problems above, I’d be happy to help!
Thanks!
Definitely love what you guys have done for the aviation community. I love how you guys show the engineering side of aviation so I thought of this below.
Worldwide Shortage of Aviation Workers - I always wanted to fly but ended up becoming an Aircraft Mechanic (Australian-Based) with the Airlines here. I think one thing that would be amazing is to promote Aircraft Engineering as a career pathway for people who can't afford flying or can't fly but want to be in the aviation industry, as a lot of people don't realize you don't need to go to university and can actually go to an A&P school and be taught everything you need to know to get a job working on planes/helicopters. An even better option is to get an apprenticeship with a local Aircraft Maintenance Facility or an Airline, for example, the United Calibrate Program, who pay you to study!! Pretty awesome stuff!
Not sure how you could fit that into your videos on top of everything you show, but if you had some A&P techs you guys work with or know come on and talk about their journeys to become A&P techs I think this would help show how awesome of a career it can be. Another option is to possibly collaborate with places like United to show what training is available as your platform could reach the right people.
Also keep the level of explaining you guys do on the build videos as personally I used all of Draco's build as study for my exams and a great way to get your head around aircraft engineering.
P.S - Put the word 'training aid' in the E-flite selling description for the RC Draco so I can claim it as study material! 😁😂
You both are extremely generous of your time, experience and knowledge and are a huge asset to the aviation field at many levels.
1) What is going right in aviation. People like you offering encouragement and resources to many people. Local EAA chapters. Relaxed changes and procedures with basic med, etc.
2) What needs fixing? Cost has pushed General aviation beyond limits to most people and the changing economy is challenging it more as time goes on.
3) What associations are you supporting? EAA and AMA (model aviation).
I have flown RC planes since the late 70’s, got my PPL at 19 YO in 1987, worked aviation maintenance (jet engine Field Service tech) for 39 years and finding it more difficult to manage the cost of aviation.
I would love to see you scale way back and challenge yourself to design an all metal (preferred), quick fold wing, 4-stroke powered or twin engine 2-stroke powered (for reliability), STOL FAR part 103 ultralight. Or a light ELSA version would work too.😀
You have well proven your great talents with the complex design. Now look the other way an see what you can achieve. This could put many people in the air after they learn how to build a plane. Do the RC DRACO’s fly well?
Thank you both for all you do!
A very important need in GA is improving the safety. This will help ensure it's survival by preventing restrictive rules etc. as well as limiting insurance costs etc. Adding your game to what Dan Gryder is doing (not thinking finance but your endorsement as often as you can). This area (safety) is so impactful for all society, not just pilots, as the media only gets loud over accident, especially fatals. Thanks. Love you guys and so glad you are all well!
Guys, you are the best thing in aviation history today. I have followed and watched Mikes builds for a while. From my meager perspective to aviation is the cost. I got my pilots license in my 40’s. Growing up I have always thought that flying was for the wealthy. Today I am still far from wealthy. A friend and I have the privilege to acquire our LSRM certification in a couple months. I have been a member of EAA and AOPA since around 2014. Have been a volunteer for our local young eagles event two times a year since 2013. How can the average Joe enjoy the great world of aviation? Henry Ford understood that need in the automotive industry in his early days.
Mark and Mike Patey! You guys are legends already. Absolutely amazing what you guys are doing and have done! Thank you for sharing it with us on RUclips!! I watch every video from you guys!
Your value in family and hard work is unreal. Love it. (I get it:) 4 kids and business :)
The three questions:
What’s going right:
There are some communities of aviators that are succeeding. This is because of incredibly devoted ppl to the sport. In my case it’s hang gliding in ontario (although we have struggles) as well as ultralight flying groups (UPAC) here in Canada. I hang out with a group of aerobatic pilots at our airfield (one competes in the nationals for Canada)
Also the amount RUclips has helped promote the sport. It’s so good. (I’ve made few videos. Mostly for similar aircraft owners as myself(although I financed a 67 , 172 to help with commercial training))
There are events like sun n fun and Oshkosh!!
Guys like you, Steve Henry and Trent Palmer!
What’s wrong:
-People don’t fly the airplanes they have enough. My concern is safety on sitting engines and airframes. Classic “hanger queens”. We gotta get planes that exist flying more!
-not enough hanger space available (especially here in ontario) for GA pilots. (Ultralights, certified, aerobatics etc) my dream is to own an airfield someday to help this issue. (Place for hang glider training/operations, and GA.)
-people don’t realize how accessible it CAN be. Hang gliding is the cheapest form of flying and a fantastic sport to do with others. (Although it survives here because of hard work and dedication for now…we need more resources (SOGA) Used ultralights are not terrible (price of a new snowmobile or quads even!)
-ethanol free 91 octane almost impossible to find in ontario. Rotax engines will suffer
What I’m involved in:
I’ve wanted to be a pilot since I was a child but didn’t have the money and knowledge etc. I became a plumber for the last 15 years and ran my own company last 7. I’ve given up my company and going head long into aviation as a career(air ambulance is my goal) after dabbling in gliding and ultralights the last 3-4 years.
I joined UPAC (ultralight pilot association of Canada) and have contributed a number of photos for their magazine :) the editor has an aircraft at our airfield (Juergensen field cpg7)
I’m also on the board of our local hang gliding club (soga) and a contributing member with volunteer work/board meetings and hopfully this year help with tugging gliders.
Please keep doing what you guys are doing!!!!! It’s unreal. Draco is my fav. I’m pumped to see Draco back!
Absolutely loved the video! Mark, God's blessings on you. I'll definitely be praying for you, and may you make a full recovery. As for the three questions: 1. I might mention both of you, and others like you who so generously give of themselves to make it better. Definitely air shows and get-to-gethers are wonderful for those of us who have been driven out of full participation. 2. I probably don't know enough to make a very educated comment as a former student, and nearly licensed one (35+ hrs), it was expense, expense, expense. (My brother in a higher income bracket, owned and flew regularly several planes including multi-engine, pressurized, etc. , but is now retired. We now talk aviation a lot.) 3. Mark, I don't feel qualified to give you further suggestions, but will be praying that you find the one(s) that will bring God's blessings to you and others. Thank you that both you and Mike are so generously sharing the blessings God has and is bringing your way.
1.) Access to GA - IMO you used to have to "know someone" to get involved in GA. I think that's improved - 2.) FBO's and City municipalities that see their airports as cash cows. Crazy FBO fee's, cities not renewing long time leases going after "Jet" business, "landing" fees - etc. Certified aircraft pricing - new aircraft aren't being built in the same number as the legacy GA fleet is slowly disappearing. LSA flopped and could be improved/renewed. 3.) EAA - AOPA - I thought the Albatross may have been it - that answer is absolutely yes!
I’ve always thought an Albatross with PW120’s would be a fun ride…
Good response. GA Airports are no longer welcoming. Either socially and certainly financially. Need to open the seemingly closed network. More clubs? What about gliders? Those clubs used to be the cradle of careers.
Glad the BOTH of you made it through each of your life "scares"!!!
To both of you Patey brothers. Thank you for your inspiring efforts, and innovation, and passion for aviation. I feel that most of us pilots feel that aviation gives a sense of freedom and exploration as well as some kind of magnetic connection to the early pioneers of aviation. Especially those that fly cubs or similar planes.
Mike I met you before you put the name on Draco, I flew one of your legacy’s from Morgan airport to you down in Utah valley with York Zentner. You’re a gracious host and kind to all. At the time I had no idea who you were, just a cool guy with really cool toys and race car mounted on your wall.
To answer your questions
1. What’s going well:
Leaders and those who inspire like you, Trent Palmer and many more that bring authentic attention to the possibilities of anyone getting into aviation.
2. What needs improvement: better options to carbon cubs, husky’s, Kitfox, etc.
I feel that there is potential of someone with resources being able to build better back country cub equivalent planes that don’t have the $360k price tag the puts most of us out of the market. I do like experimental class. I fly a smith cub and it’s great but would love to upgrade my wings with slats and Fowler pstol flaps. Maybe one day. I’m a chiropractor but a 3rd gen pilot. Watching Trent Palmer motivated me to move from my first plane a Mooney 201 to my Smith cub.
3: I’m a member of the Apoa, Utah Back country association and our local Dirty Dirt pilots club.
Thank you again
Dr Derrick Stanbridge
Lots of good things to come. Love it and back to work!!
Thank you for what you both have done, and are doing for aviation. I have had the privilege of meeting both of you. Aviation has been in my family for many generations from the military to RC planes and will continue with my children. I’m part of EAA, AOPA, FAA, and 25:25 a controller in the ATL area and RV10 owner. I bleed aviation and love it as much as you.
1. Hanger space for GA
2. Cost of entry for student pilots
3. Skyrocketing landing or use fees for flying to lunch somewhere.
4. Uncertainties for AV gas regulations
5. Did I mention hanger space?
6. Airports only catering to Jets and not the local pilots.
Thanks again. Love you guys.
Now back to work, can’t wait to see this old and new projects come to life.
I work in aviation and I’m about to get my PPL license, just for fun. My flight school is nice but we’re still flying on 1978 C172N. My ideas to you: 1) Design a trainer that would revolutionize and lower the cost of initial PPL and IFR ratings (do what the Cessna Skycather was meant to do but unfortunately failed. 2) Another idea is to design a modern 2 seater to be an entry path into aircraft ownership. Better performing than typical LSAs but still docile and suitable to the average-skilled pilot (maybe a Cirrus-like 2 seater?). Love you guys! All the best, Breno
Thank you Mark and Mike for all you do for our aviation community (and beyond), you are great people.
1) What's going right in Aviation?
a. In the US we are still very fortunate to have the flying freedoms we have. I can do my flight planning and take off from my airport and fly nearly anywhere I want while following some basic safety rules. We do have to work to keep these freedoms, including keeping the airspace and airports we have GA accessible. I feel an important step in this is to make sure the general public knows how valuable these resources are to the local economy and ongoing safely of the community.
2) What needs fixing.
a. Safety records - We can just always do better, this means continuous training, seminars and aviation community knowledge sharing.
b. Remove the lead from gasoline - We have an excellent options available, including G100UL, we need to push through the red tape and get this out to every airport.
c. Affordability - Like many fun activities there are expenses, however aviation is hard hit with double the cost things could be due to liability, excessive/expensive certification requirements, fees and insurance.
3) What associations are you supporting.
Lifetime member of AOPA and EAA, plus many type clubs based on what I am currently flying or researching to buy.
Hi guys, I love this channel! I've always wanted to fly and in the last year I joined the EAA local 430 in Sequim Washington. I met them through a "Flying Start" event they did last year and flew my first plane that day! I got super excited and jumped into studying for the written test with classes that the EAA members set up for us. I really and truly wanted to get my pilot's license. So here's my list.
1) What I love about aviation is the freedom of flying. I love the thought of going where I want to go, when I want to go and having the skills to know how to get there. I love the EAA and all that they offer to inspire wannabe pilots.
2) What is wrong with the aviation industry? It's too expensive! I had every intention of going through with flight school, but when I really sat down and investigated it I realized I couldn't do it. I'm 57 years old, I have no intention of making a career out of flying and I just couldn't justify how much it would take to get my license let alone buying a plane and dealing with storage costs, insurance, maintenance and fuel. If I was younger I would definitely spend the money but I waited too long and missed my chance.
3) What can you do to help? The first thing that comes to mind is helping these clubs to be able to reach out to more people. My local 430 Has recently received a little bit of money from an estate and are in the beginning stages of planning a building for the club. They are planning on a hanger style set up so that members can bring their planes in to use the specialty tools that the club has acquired over the years, but also have an area to have get togethers, fund raisers, conduct meetings and have workshops.
These guys do a lot of work with kids building RC planes. They also have 2 or 3 days a year where they take the kids up for a flight. They are also planning on setting up a flight simulator in the future, which I think is an awesome idea. My hardest part of the classes I took were the stressing over the radio or the GPS and how to deal with ATC; all of which can be taught on a simulator and have a living breathing ATC talking to you without having to worry about crashing.
Well thats my two cents. I'm glad you two are healthy and ready for your next chapter, I look forward to seeing it.
God Bless you both!
1: General Aviation is growing! So awesome that aviation people have dove into RUclips and Instagram and continue to grow this awesome industry that we all love.
2: affordability and public perception are both really struggling in the industry right now. It's too much to go into here, but a renewed focus on PR issues surrounding aviation and accessibility is absolutely essential.
3: I've been an AOPA and EAA member for over a decade and strongly support both organizations, both for their work from a public policy/political standpoint, as well as how they support the aviation industry and pilot community.
Lastly, do a Mike Patey Edition turbine Albatross!! That would be incredible.
HI Mike and Mark. First off thank you so much for being interested in helping push aviation further into the future. There are a few things that I will highlight as going right in general aviation right now. I love that we still have the ability to build and fly airplanes. This is GAs future in my opinion. Affordability of flight for the average person has become quite difficult and I see this as the only way to reliably access aviation in the future. I will also tack on that there are so many more options of engines that are coming to us in the future. This excites me in many ways from affordability, accessibility, performance, reliability. I don't just have an over expensive lycoming or continental available to me anymore. As far as things that are going wrong. As discussed above, aviation has become extremely unaffordable. I own a Sonex in its phase 1 testing at SPK that I keep on a tie down. I am mighty grateful for my tie down but Utah winters are brutal and wind storms are often an issue as well. Just a few weeks ago my canopy got caught in some pretty extreme wind and here I am replacing it. I would love to see affordable hangers be accessible in the area. West Desert airpark is putting in T-hangars that I think will be available next year. Cedar valley airport could potentially be a great place to revamp and give us some more real estate for additional hangar space. I personally don't need a lot. Mostly just a roof over my airplanes head would be amazing. I currently support and leverage the EAA community quite a bit. Super grateful for all the friends that I have made through this community and the people that have kept me alive and safe for my family.
Wow you guys are special. Really enjoyed your video and so glad you are with us to share your stories. I’ve got a bit of a story with our son Jensen. We’ve been watching you Mike build your planes and waiting on the latest video to come out as Draco came to life and then scrappy. We so much enjoyed every moment of your builds. Jensen was 9 I think when we started watching you on RUclips. He is now 13 and all he is talking about is starting his flying career when he’s 16. A little background on Jensen. We adopted him from China when he was 13 months old. My wife and I always had on our hearts to adopt and we couldn’t wait the normal waiting period because we were in our early 40s. The normal process was around 5 years plus. Friends of ours told us about the “Waiting Child Program” with Outreach International over seas adoption. This process ended taking only 16 months from when we were matched to actually going to China to pick Jensen up. The reason this was quicker was because these kids had special needs. Not only the fact that most of these kids if not all were in orphanages and Jensen was no exception. Jensen was found in a parking lot near the university hospital. He was abandoned there by his parents. Jensen's was a serious case as later we found out He had 2 holes in his heart and required serious open heart surgery fairly soon after we got him home. Our heart specialist said he would have only lived to maybe 7 or 8 years of age if that in the orphanage in Kunming city where we adopted him from. His province had no doctors able to perform the surgery he required. The government in China would not pay to have him moved to another province for the surgery he required. He underwent open heart surgery 3 months after we got home in 2011. He has totally recovered and is a perfectly healthy happy boy now. Sorry for the long story but he is a very special boy/son and we are blessed to be his parents. He absolutely loves airshows and flight and wants very much to be a pilot so we want to give him any opportunity we can when the time comes. We love your RUclips Chanel Mike thank you so much. We would love to meet you some day.
Incredible stories guys! Glad you both are still here to keep enriching lives!
Oh please buy the albatross asap. I have been in love with the albatross since i was a kid. You would be fulfilling a childhood dream for me. That would be the absolute #1 project.
Mark, I'm so thankful you made it through all that! This was a very moving video and I'm excited for what's next for both of you!
1. After watching Mike's recent talks on aviation safety, I've been brainstorming ways to promote safety to the aviation community. A few creative ideas come to mind and you would be awesome spokesmen if you were behind them.
2. I'm wondering if you could start a program that would use aviation to help people with autism. My wife just started an autism therapy clinic and I've been thinking about what this might look like for me to try with RC planes. Also, I recently discovered that I have ADHD, so I think there is potential for aviation to make a positive impact in that area as well.
3. I'm really dreaming now, but I wish there were flying clubs with Carbon Cubs so pilots, myself included, could get time in them. I think you should start a chain of Patey flying clubs across the country!
I appreciate what you do for aviation and how you care for people! Keep up the good work!
Im glad you boys are still around!
Love both of you guys.... Thinking of you and your families. Stay positive!
Enjoy your friends and family. A brother build would be great but either way you have both made an enormous impact on aviation!
I know nothing about aviation, but the two of you ooze such enthusiasm that I find myself wanting to know about it. And that house, Mike - well, words fail me.
You guys are an inspiration, with a humble “know and show how” attitude. Keep it up!
1.a.) Light Sport category is expanding and growing. This is creating more airplanes and pilots.
1.b) Industry pay keeps going up!
2.a.) A&P Tech’s. Pretty hard to find influencers for the industry. Part of what drew me to the channel. I presume it’s due to the legal oversight with a fear of being smitten by the long arm of the law. Finding new ways to learn tech tips are just few and far between.
2.b.) A lot of pilots are paying enough to keep their flying machine in tip top shape while not being able to afford a licensed mechanic.
2.c.) The pipeline for young pilots and mechanics. Industry leaders and advocates should be going to middle schools and high schools to promoting the next generation of aviation enthusiasts. Model and full scale aviation included. I’d almost like to see a big brothers big sisters type of mentorship for just aviation.
2.d.) Model aviation is getting too restricted by the commercial drone industry. This is hindering the segway for kids to pursue model aviation and cultivate that passion into aviation careers.
3) no association subs. Academy of Model Aeronautics.
Being a model aviation nut and a AP/IA/AV tech for almost 20 years derives my passion to promote both!
Who doesn’t like a big bad flying boat!?!?
Thanks for all you guys do and I’m delighted to hear you are ok Mark! !