The more expensive belt probably is made of better materials for a longer life. The first few years there won't be much difference with a cheaper one. It gets interesting when the belts get older.
I was gonna say the same thing, except it may not be a few years before you hear a difference. If the belt stretches even slightly you'll hear a big difference in maybe a few weeks or even days.
My own experience: LP12 owner and after 15 years needed a new belt. Decided on a clone belt at 25% of the Linn price. How does it sound?...exactly same as the Linn but after only 18 months it's worn badly and finding rubber deposits building up on the motor spool. "Buy cheap, buy twice"
I got a not-Linn belt to my LP12 and the music sounded terrible. Simply flat and boring. Old LPs just sounded old. With a dedicted belt the music was restored.
I tried a few upgrades to a Rega RP-1 - IsoAcoustic pucks under the feet, new 24v motor (same as in new P3), outboard speed control... the upgrade belt made the biggest difference
I own a belt drive turntable and have experimented with belts. I bought a replacement belt, not oem. I made 2 observations. The two belts were dimensionally different, with the non own belt a bit thicker (used a digital caliper). Then tested speed using a KAB strobe and speed check disc. There was a difference in speed between oem vs non-oem. So yeah different belts make a difference
I upgraded my Rega belt to the more expensive $60 belt 7 yrs ago. I didn’t hear a difference but the belt is still working well, no issues. You just have to be sure to oil your Rega TT every 2 yrs or so, so the TT mechanism is smooth and gentle on the belt.
My uncle used to run an electronics part supply. From time to time a customer would come in asking for parts and being very specific that he wanted the "audiophile quality" versions. My uncle would nod "okay" then go into the warehouse grab a plastic bag with "AQ" stamped on it and pull the customer's parts from the regular parts bins. Back at the sales counter the price would go up rather a lot, often 5 or 10 times normal. The customer would pay it, thank my uncle and be on his way. To my knowledge nobody ever complained about this. When I questioned it, my uncle explained: "They are convinced there is a difference and would be angry if they did not overpay for the parts". The thing is... there is no legitimate company anywhere that makes "audiophile quality" parts. A 2 amp fuse is just that ... a 2 amp fuse... and it's worth about 50 cents.
I believe that it does make a difference to buy the newer, more expensive drive belt for a belt drive turntable. I have restored, repaired, and by consequence modified a Rega Planar 3 Turntable, of early 1980s. I installed a Silicone drive belt, and a Silicone motor suspension belt. And yes, such a drive belt is more expensive. This Silicone Drive Belt does improve playback; although very small, there is a bit of an advantage.🔉🎵🎶
If you really want to hear a difference buy a direct drive turntable. The platter is in that case the motor itselfs. No belts just a rock steady turn frequency which is strong as hell! You'll have trouble to stop the platter from turning if you buy a high torque one. The table is electronicky controlled. And if you buy one with a GOOD preamp you can just put it into a line input with a lot less noise getting into the cables. I am very happy with my Reloop RP-6000 MK6 B 's. Sound excellent! (might be that Paul will disagree on some of my advice ;-) )
I concur with this. At one point I switched from a beat up old Technics SL1210mk2 DD (direct drive) to a Rega Planar 1 assuming that it must be better sounding because it had "audiophile pedigree". The amount of "wow" (pitch variation, wasn't even familiar with that term before then) was a huge issue for me. I'm sure an upgraded belt might have made a difference, but that experience made me a DD fan immediately. Got SL1210 again as soon as I could and recently upgraded to the SL1200GR with 2M Black cartridge and very happy with that.
Back in the day Direct Drive turntables would not even be considered by so called audiophiles, belt drive was always the way to go, especially the Linn Sondek LP12. Rega was around then but was always the poor relation while Direct Drives were consigned to the wilderness.
I hear a difference on my Rega P6, I have upgraded the tonearm and cartridge to a MC. These changes made more difference than the belt. The belt was the cheapest upgrade on it and I´m happy with it. I´m not sure it will make any difference in P1 or P2.
Paul, My whole life I've been scared to death of the belt drive turntable. I just cant seem to trust a thin belt of rubber especially over the course of many years to faithfully spin my records. I've owned them and luckily didn't have an issue but it was always in the back of my head.
3:16 the two belts are supplied with different turntables. The Advanced belt is for Rega 1-6 turntables & the Reference is for Rega 8 & 10. I would imagine there might be some very slight differences but probably very subtle but you must use the right belt for the right turntable in my opinion.
Slightly off topic, I had some old cassette to dump, so bought a K-series Yamaha deck, I totally refurbished the thing, including a new belt. However when recording a 1KHz tone and then playing it back, there was a lot more frequency spread due to wow-flutter with the new belt, even after some manual bump removal with some fine grit paper, nothing matched the old belt....
I'm quick to denounce "snake oil", but a belt with inconsistent properties could make noise as it contacts and leaves the platter, and create wow/flutter, so I'd want to use the recommended belt :-)
@@russputin6294 Tee hee. My favourite Roger Mellie cartoon on the wall for irritating my boss was the one where he met Esther Rantzen and reversed the usual /vegetables that look like rude things/ schtick. "Just like a potato, eh?"
A pal fitted silver interconnects to his turntable and said it sounded better,I thought it sounded shrill ,it turned out his hearing was defective ,so he was right it did sound better to him.
I just know VPI belts are about $30. I have had mine a couple of years, and it's still working well. I doubt I could tell a difference except maybe in longevity.
I repair many turntables, and yes belts make diference in many ways, diferent manufacters of belts for the same turntable, can change a lot, in speed, wow and flutter and sound even the noise floor change, not in all but in many.
What does Rega say is the benefit? Better sound? More longevity? More consistent speed? Could the rubber be more stable and more consistent in different room temps?
I wouldn’t spray that garbage on a damn mailbox hinge. It actually has shellac in it which of course hardens over time effectively making it the worse and most over rated lubricant ever created. I suppose it has it’s place but I’m yet to figure out what that place might be. It certainly doesn’t belong anywhere near electronics for any reason. Ever.
@@shannonmiller5648 WD40 is penetrating oil, intended mostly to free up rusted bolts, bearings and hinges. Then after you get them free, you would use normal oil as a lubricant. And you're right... keep it as bloody far away from your electronics as you can.
interesting and free experiment to verify for yourself the importance of a turntable drive belt. Remove your existing belt and replace it with a standard, Post Office type elastic band. Once you've got over the horrendous wow and flutter imagine that all belts exhibit these characteristics to varying degrees. Good drive belts are as rigid as possible in the drive plane and machined smooth on the contact faces; this costs money.
Hey Brian, Rega reference EBLT I think is worth it. Speed measures more accurate and stable, wow and flutter decreased. That alone made my purchase worth it. It's supposed to last longer as well. Hope this helps with the decision.
I don't know if a turntable belt makes a difference, but once when modifying a vintage Phillips based cd player, I swapped a few springs for rubber bands and the elasticity or the filtering of the rubber bands made a real obvious sonic difference. The belt drive turntables I've had sound better than direct drive.
Tweakers have made serious audible improvements (and they add up) with such ordinary items such as tennis balls, a roll of pennies, a bone from a piece of meat, string, a clothespin, paper clip, ribbon, a stone, a toothpick and many other things.
@@sidesup8286 sure, but CD players are reading digital audio. Nothing you do to the spinning of the disc is going to change the sound. It's either going to read all the data or not.
It's a lot more complex than reading data. It's how it translates and transforms the date. How it turns it back into analog. Take the top off a cd player and you'll probably see not far from 100 parts inside. The signal goes through all those parts and is influenced by them, and any fouling of the signal integrity is cumulative. Then there's also problems with external vibration and handling of them; and also anti musical resonances.
I upgraded the belt on my Rega and I reduced flutter from 0.09% to 0.05% using my cellphone app. There is a difference in sound. Singers sing better, piano is better and percussion is better. Timing and tone is better.
I don’t have a turntable, but buying the most expensive will make me sleep better because of FOMO just like Paul, the lunatic, said. I don’t have a turntable or plan to have one in the near future because where I live, we don’t have stores that sell vinyl. The more expensive one might be better for longevity or for temperature, humidity, and heat variability.
Manufacturers should be Required to specify the Exact dimensions, material, and elasticity of any belt used in their product(s), and should Not have an exclusive right to sell suitable replacements. Along that line, Right To Repair laws need to include requirements that all perishable parts be available at reasonable prices for at least fifty years.
And KFC should be required to divulge their secret formula of 11 herbs and spices so you make make it yourself at home. Anyone can measure the dimensions of a belt and make a copy that will work just fine. But if you want factory performance buy the factory part.
That is a disgusting business practice REGA is trying to pull. This is a turntable we're talking about, not cables, not tweaks, add on's, not record weights but something that should be a standard that REGA sells for a particular model of turntable. When and if the manufacturer develops a better material to drive their existing model turntable, then they should bite the bullet and sell it for a hell of a lot less money to their customers who already bought an existing model turntable. It should be the manufacturers responsibility in the first place for putting out a model that has a somewhat inferior drive belt, not to put out a "new improved" model drive belt for that model until many years have passed or at least make a discounted offering within a certain period of time from the date of purchase so if the belt has had a lot of use, the customer can have a choice when they "MUST" replace it. REGA should have made a "recall" and replaced the belt or just offered it on newer models because this is a real insult in my opinion.
AR XB TT from 1972,(UL sticker too) i used for 27 years, it was $72 with a cartridge....what about the belt Buckle? PS doesn't do snake oil? Hmm, that Noise collector nonsense for $79 is a what now, no UL specs, as to UL standards for surge and noise and spike suppression. And yes L or ETL NRTL stickers matter, it means the stuff meets at least some set of standards. And there are places that if not NRTL labeled, can't even bring to the site, yes, reality is something. Stop saying it doesn't matter in consumer electronics...it's just an excuse to not pay to meet safety standards, what are you afraid of? UL or ETL will visit the mfg site, to see what stds you don't meet, afraid of inspection? Hmmm?
Belt driven are the worst by far Direct and idler driven are accurate and good motors don’t give noise. Try dragging your platter with a rubber belt vs direct with your finger or a idler wheel pushing. And you would know the most accurate way
![If you can't hear this then you're not an audiophile [See description for link to followup video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/48PxwspDvrE/mqdefault.jpg)
The more expensive belt probably is made of better materials for a longer life. The first few years there won't be much difference with a cheaper one. It gets interesting when the belts get older.
I was gonna say the same thing, except it may not be a few years before you hear a difference. If the belt stretches even slightly you'll hear a big difference in maybe a few weeks or even days.
@@andrewjackson9417 Yep
When I was a teenager, my daddy used to use a different belt on me when I came home drunk. He could hear the difference.
At first I read that backwards. All too many times it is how I read it where it's the dad that's drunk beating the kid.
I bet the whole street could.
You must’ve done something to provoke your punishment.
That’ll taught ya
That's funny!
Was it a Rega belt?
Buy a direct drive turntable and avoid the dilemma :)
My own experience: LP12 owner and after 15 years needed a new belt. Decided on a clone belt at 25% of the Linn price. How does it sound?...exactly same as the Linn but after only 18 months it's worn badly and finding rubber deposits building up on the motor spool. "Buy cheap, buy twice"
I got a not-Linn belt to my LP12 and the music sounded terrible. Simply flat and boring. Old LPs just sounded old. With a dedicted belt the music was restored.
I tried a few upgrades to a Rega RP-1 - IsoAcoustic pucks under the feet, new 24v motor (same as in new P3), outboard speed control... the upgrade belt made the biggest difference
I own a belt drive turntable and have experimented with belts. I bought a replacement belt, not oem. I made 2 observations. The two belts were dimensionally different, with the non own belt a bit thicker (used a digital caliper). Then tested speed using a KAB strobe and speed check disc. There was a difference in speed between oem vs non-oem. So yeah different belts make a difference
If Rega is such an upfront company, why doesn't it publicize full specs of all products?
Again; another honest and precise information!! Congratulations once again Paul!❤
LOL Yeah, he admitted that he honestly did not know. Precision? There was none.
I upgraded my Rega belt to the more expensive $60 belt 7 yrs ago. I didn’t hear a difference but the belt is still working well, no issues. You just have to be sure to oil your Rega TT every 2 yrs or so, so the TT mechanism is smooth and gentle on the belt.
My uncle used to run an electronics part supply. From time to time a customer would come in asking for parts and being very specific that he wanted the "audiophile quality" versions. My uncle would nod "okay" then go into the warehouse grab a plastic bag with "AQ" stamped on it and pull the customer's parts from the regular parts bins. Back at the sales counter the price would go up rather a lot, often 5 or 10 times normal. The customer would pay it, thank my uncle and be on his way. To my knowledge nobody ever complained about this.
When I questioned it, my uncle explained: "They are convinced there is a difference and would be angry if they did not overpay for the parts".
The thing is... there is no legitimate company anywhere that makes "audiophile quality" parts. A 2 amp fuse is just that ... a 2 amp fuse... and it's worth about 50 cents.
Glad I never did business with your uncle.
@@user-od9iz9cv1w
Okay ... But, keep in mind that he never ripped anyone off.
His customers did that to themselves.
@@Douglas_Blake_579No, your uncle did...
@@Oystein87
Umm ... where do you get that?
My father was a machinist.
I believe that it does make a difference to buy the newer, more expensive drive belt for a belt drive turntable. I have restored, repaired, and by consequence modified a Rega Planar 3 Turntable, of early 1980s. I installed a Silicone drive belt, and a Silicone motor suspension belt. And yes, such a drive belt is more expensive. This Silicone Drive Belt does improve playback; although very small, there is a bit of an advantage.🔉🎵🎶
If you really want to hear a difference buy a direct drive turntable. The platter is in that case the motor itselfs. No belts just a rock steady turn frequency which is strong as hell! You'll have trouble to stop the platter from turning if you buy a high torque one. The table is electronicky controlled. And if you buy one with a GOOD preamp you can just put it into a line input with a lot less noise getting into the cables. I am very happy with my Reloop RP-6000 MK6 B 's. Sound excellent! (might be that Paul will disagree on some of my advice ;-) )
I concur with this. At one point I switched from a beat up old Technics SL1210mk2 DD (direct drive) to a Rega Planar 1 assuming that it must be better sounding because it had "audiophile pedigree". The amount of "wow" (pitch variation, wasn't even familiar with that term before then) was a huge issue for me. I'm sure an upgraded belt might have made a difference, but that experience made me a DD fan immediately. Got SL1210 again as soon as I could and recently upgraded to the SL1200GR with 2M Black cartridge and very happy with that.
Back in the day Direct Drive turntables would not even be considered by so called audiophiles, belt drive was always the way to go, especially the Linn Sondek LP12. Rega was around then but was always the poor relation while Direct Drives were consigned to the wilderness.
Next they will be claiming the paint colour on the capacitors makes a difference .
I hear a difference on my Rega P6, I have upgraded the tonearm and cartridge to a MC. These changes made more difference than the belt. The belt was the cheapest upgrade on it and I´m happy with it. I´m not sure it will make any difference in P1 or P2.
Paul, My whole life I've been scared to death of the belt drive turntable. I just cant seem to trust a thin belt of rubber especially over the course of many years to faithfully spin my records. I've owned them and luckily didn't have an issue but it was always in the back of
my head.
3:16 the two belts are supplied with different turntables. The Advanced belt is for Rega 1-6 turntables & the Reference is for Rega 8 & 10. I would imagine there might be some very slight differences but probably very subtle but you must use the right belt for the right turntable in my opinion.
Slightly off topic, I had some old cassette to dump, so bought a K-series Yamaha deck, I totally refurbished the thing, including a new belt. However when recording a 1KHz tone and then playing it back, there was a lot more frequency spread due to wow-flutter with the new belt, even after some manual bump removal with some fine grit paper, nothing matched the old belt....
I'm quick to denounce "snake oil", but a belt with inconsistent properties could make noise as it contacts and leaves the platter, and create wow/flutter, so I'd want to use the recommended belt :-)
B*ll*cks. Actually I 100% agree with you but Roger Mellie thinks otherwise..... ;0)
@@russputin6294 Tee hee.
My favourite Roger Mellie cartoon on the wall for irritating my boss was the one where he met Esther Rantzen and reversed the usual /vegetables that look like rude things/ schtick. "Just like a potato, eh?"
A pal fitted silver interconnects to his turntable and said it sounded better,I thought it sounded shrill ,it turned out his hearing was defective ,so he was right it did sound better to him.
Not when you own no turntables...
I just know VPI belts are about $30. I have had mine a couple of years, and it's still working well. I doubt I could tell a difference except maybe in longevity.
I repair many turntables, and yes belts make diference in many ways, diferent manufacters of belts for the same turntable, can change a lot, in speed, wow and flutter and sound even the noise floor change, not in all but in many.
If you don’t buy the more expensive belt, you’ll always know you didn’t buy the more expensive belt.
Self-flagellation over saving money? Really?
What does Rega say is the benefit? Better sound? More longevity? More consistent speed? Could the rubber be more stable and more consistent in different room temps?
Companies take advantage of people that have more money than common sense.
People that have no common sense are the most gullible.
@@davidfromamerica1871 Yes, but there is a difference in tires. Otherwise, why pay more for a chunk of rubber?
@@richardsmith2721
Because people don't know any better.
Probably one lasts longer than the other
The biggest potential for an audible difference is if the cheap belt has uneven girth causing wow.
I have a chain drive and an oil can.
Audio companies could avoid snake oil conspiracy theories by explaining to their customers in detail why different product upgrades matter.
They don't because they usually don't.
@@Douglas_Blake_579
I cannot afford Snake Oil…😀
I buy WD 40 instead..👍😎
@@davidfromamerica1871
Just don't be cleaning volume controls with that stuff ... I've seen the horrors it can cause. 😲
I wouldn’t spray that garbage on a damn mailbox hinge. It actually has shellac in it which of course hardens over time effectively making it the worse and most over rated lubricant ever created. I suppose it has it’s place but I’m yet to figure out what that place might be. It certainly doesn’t belong anywhere near electronics for any reason. Ever.
@@shannonmiller5648
WD40 is penetrating oil, intended mostly to free up rusted bolts, bearings and hinges. Then after you get them free, you would use normal oil as a lubricant.
And you're right... keep it as bloody far away from your electronics as you can.
interesting and free experiment to verify for yourself the importance of a turntable drive belt. Remove your existing belt and replace it with a standard, Post Office type elastic band. Once you've got over the horrendous wow and flutter imagine that all belts exhibit these characteristics to varying degrees. Good drive belts are as rigid as possible in the drive plane and machined smooth on the contact faces; this costs money.
But it might just be a lunatic ur looking for .
Maybe the $60 belt will last longer than the $20 one,….and aren’t all audiophiles just a little bit off?
Woohoo! I got a question answered by the man himself!! And yes, I'm definitely a lunatic. Thanks, Paul! And Peachtree City is in the Atlanta area.
Hey Brian, Rega reference EBLT I think is worth it. Speed measures more accurate and stable, wow and flutter decreased. That alone made my purchase worth it.
It's supposed to last longer as well.
Hope this helps with the decision.
@@alunt4845 it definitely does! Thank you for the input! I added the power supply about a year ago. That made a MASSIVE difference as well.
I was thinking the wow and flutter might change?
The $60 belt lasts a bit longer that's all ..!
I believe it is also perfectly circular with no breaks.
@@ptg01 whaaat ? No breaks ... lol 😂
Wouldn't the best belt be made of snakeskin and conditioned with snake oil?
$60 belt is likely higher quantity and will last much longer.
I don't know if a turntable belt makes a difference, but once when modifying a vintage Phillips based cd player, I swapped a few springs for rubber bands and the elasticity or the filtering of the rubber bands made a real obvious sonic difference. The belt drive turntables I've had sound better than direct drive.
Haha...wait, are you serious? I can't tell sometimes in audiophile comment sections.
Tweakers have made serious audible improvements (and they add up) with such ordinary items such as tennis balls, a roll of pennies, a bone from a piece of meat, string, a clothespin, paper clip, ribbon, a stone, a toothpick and many other things.
@@sidesup8286 sure, but CD players are reading digital audio. Nothing you do to the spinning of the disc is going to change the sound. It's either going to read all the data or not.
It's a lot more complex than reading data. It's how it translates and transforms the date. How it turns it back into analog. Take the top off a cd player and you'll probably see not far from 100 parts inside. The signal goes through all those parts and is influenced by them, and any fouling of the signal integrity is cumulative. Then there's also problems with external vibration and handling of them; and also anti musical resonances.
I upgraded the belt on my Rega and I reduced flutter from 0.09% to 0.05% using my cellphone app. There is a difference in sound. Singers sing better, piano is better and percussion is better. Timing and tone is better.
Peachtree City is a suburb of Atlanta
I don’t have a turntable, but buying the most expensive will make me sleep better because of FOMO just like Paul, the lunatic, said. I don’t have a turntable or plan to have one in the near future because where I live, we don’t have stores that sell vinyl. The more expensive one might be better for longevity or for temperature, humidity, and heat variability.
Manufacturers should be Required to specify the Exact dimensions, material, and elasticity of any belt used in their product(s),
and should Not have an exclusive right to sell suitable replacements.
Along that line, Right To Repair laws need to include requirements that
all perishable parts be available at reasonable prices for at least fifty years.
And KFC should be required to divulge their secret formula of 11 herbs and spices so you make make it yourself at home.
Anyone can measure the dimensions of a belt and make a copy that will work just fine. But if you want factory performance buy the factory part.
That is a disgusting business practice REGA is trying to pull. This is a turntable we're talking about, not cables, not tweaks, add on's, not record weights but something that should be a standard that REGA sells for a particular model of turntable. When and if the manufacturer develops a better material to drive their existing model turntable, then they should bite the bullet and sell it for a hell of a lot less money to their customers who already bought an existing model turntable. It should be the manufacturers responsibility in the first place for putting out a model that has a somewhat inferior drive belt, not to put out a "new improved" model drive belt for that model until many years have passed or at least make a discounted offering within a certain period of time from the date of purchase so if the belt has had a lot of use, the customer can have a choice when they "MUST" replace it. REGA should have made a "recall" and replaced the belt or just offered it on newer models because this is a real insult in my opinion.
So.... what TT does Paul have at home ??? :) I know the office has a VPI HW-40
I don't believe he has a TT at home
The best belt is no belt.
AR XB TT from 1972,(UL sticker too) i used for 27 years, it was $72 with a cartridge....what about the belt Buckle? PS doesn't do snake oil? Hmm, that Noise collector nonsense for $79 is a what now, no UL specs, as to UL standards for surge and noise and spike suppression. And yes L or ETL NRTL stickers matter, it means the stuff meets at least some set of standards. And there are places that if not NRTL labeled, can't even bring to the site, yes, reality is something. Stop saying it doesn't matter in consumer electronics...it's just an excuse to not pay to meet safety standards, what are you afraid of? UL or ETL will visit the mfg site, to see what stds you don't meet, afraid of inspection? Hmmm?
A belt is a belt😒
Belt driven are the worst by far
Direct and idler driven are accurate and good motors don’t give noise.
Try dragging your platter with a rubber belt vs direct with your finger or a idler wheel pushing. And you would know the most accurate way
Tom Cochrane fans unite!
🌃