Toxicity - Why Players Rage and How to Defuse It - Extra Credits
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- Опубликовано: 4 июн 2013
- Trash talk is something so many players do--even players who wouldn't normally harass others. How can players do better at detaching negativity from their personal investment in and love of the games they play?
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(Original air date: May 22, 2013)
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Игры
Sometimes its not a lack of skill that causes us to lose.. It's 3 blue shells in a row on Mario Kart.. Now thats rage
and the 5 red shells to make you in last place
Jokes on you i suck too much too be hit by a blue shell
The Blue Shell. A.K.A., the _How to End a Friendship in the Press of a Button_ tool.
In that case, randomness caused the rage.
Skywars ender pearls
I just had a match in league where EVERYONE on my team was positive. Never once had anyone said anything toxic Even if they got ganked and died they were basically like "ah well what can you do" and when we started to lose lane nobody blamed eachother. It was beautiful
+Denise Cusack Sounds great. I always try to be nice when playing online, even though I suck
Btw i was jungling as kha'zix
+Denise Cusack Sure you did
its actually true nicest league players ive ever met
And then you woke up from your dream....
This is why I like single player games. I don't deal well with being treated poorly by people hiding behind a screen miles away trying to ruin my fun when I"m either having a good time, or have been upset and NEED to have a good time.
Lunara Hunter #Smash4OnlineTournaments4Life! Yes. This is why I love smash bros, noone can yell at people and be annoying. :D
Except those who do are on the same couch as you
The entire League of Legends community needs to watch this vid.
+Ratty524 and CSGO, and Rocket League, and CoD, and World of Warcraft, and DOTA 2. The list goes on. lol
+Ratty524 Honestly, with time passing the situation in LoL at least is getting better and better despite the new players.
But yeah, that's an heavy stigma.
That's good. I'd love to play LoL/Dota 2 if people just weren't so critical. Gotta start somewhere!! :D
Now im not trying to get into a whole best MOBA argument but if you get tired of the toxic players in Dota and LoL, smite is a good home. As a whole a very toxic-free community
I'll have to give it another go. I played it a bit while it was in beta and loved it. My friends just ended up moving to LoL :/ Thanks for the recommend!
4:02 Everyone knows, Obama is to blame when your team loses a match
Dr Timothy I once saw a Dark Souls mod where the great screaming "YOU DIED" text was replaced with "THANKS OBAMA."
I believe so.
Rule 1 of the internet always find a way to blame the government
@@AreosOriginal...and Jews
Guys, just say "GG" or "good times," at the end of a match, even of you lost. It seriously raises your dopamine levels and makes your loss seem not that much a loss. Same goes if the other team lost.
This is STILL relevant to this day. Man.
Sad but very true. It will only get worse.
Screenshot from Heartstone: prntscr.com/cio0rb Translation: This match is totally unfair, just blame the developers.
Did you expect human nature to change in the last 3 years?
hagamapama
Only slightly.
hagamapama I don't expect human nature to change but I do expect communities to change.
"Don't talk smack; just carry harder"
well, no need to put that kind of pressure on yourself either. Part of being on a team is giving up the ability to completely control how the match goes, in exchange for being able to participate in a type of match you couldn't do solo. Sure, sometimes you can carry a weak player. Other times, you can't. Regardless though, you should do your best: not let that person's actions dictate yours.
My back hurts enough from carrying already, and you want me to carry even more!
Actually some pro players are quite toxic
Couldnt agree more.
It makes it so much worse too.
Cough ninja cough
Indra is my spirit animal, I miss that man.
Why do I have this constant image of Kaiba Seto spewing insults left and right during a tournament..?
When I play Mario Kart with my mom, I pretend to be upset when she beats me. The reason is because I'm better at the game than she is (because I've had more practice than her). So sometimes purposely let her win, but I tried to lose without her knowing I lost on purpose, so she wouldn't think that I'm bored playing with her. I really like playing with her and it's a more fun challenge to unsuspiciously lose to her than actually winning the race. And sometimes she truly does beat me! lol
6yrs later, how are you :D
I interpreted the word "beat" wrong, which made the story a lot more concerning.
I thought this one would be an obvious answer, but it surprises me how many conflicting views you get in the comments on people who think it's okay to harass others for reasons like "Its part of the culture" or "it helps me play better." While I don't personally agree with those comments, I think you guys really hit a nerve for a surprising amount of people on this one. Nice work.
Well hello there, didn't expect you to be on this topic too (Not insulting or anything, love your chanell too)
Howdy stider
Was going to say hi, but it looks like these fine gentlemen beat me to it.
+
Josh, whatchu doing here??
I played Smite once...
"Hey, Hades... Why don't you go play Mario or something"...
I was Hades.. :(
***** Feel your pain...
+Cookieofdoom I played Smite a lot in the beta and it was great. A really good alternative to LoL. Then the release came and the game got more popular. It could also be me being a little "nostalgic" and the flamer were always there even in the beta but I think that it got a lot worse when the game got released. So many people commenting every ally who gets killed with a sarcastic "awesome" and people not only using the quick chat (which is an awesome idea in theory btw.) but also the normal chat to write the usual bad stuff...
+stemw33 well although that's true ,the sarcastic "awesome" and "woohoo" chats usages are out of the charts, its not flaming at all. It's a compulsary thing like ,sometimes you don't even care about the dead man you just say it like "fk we are losing, great". It's not flaming just a mere frustration directed at no one.
Its when things get OUT of the quick chat and onto typing. Thats....well thats more prone to be falming :P
OH
Unless they spam the quick chat. Then fk them. Mute them. Happy trails :)
+stemw33
Eh, there was probably the same concentration of douchebags in beta (for argument's sake, 10%), but now that it's released, and getting bigger and bigger and bigger, that 10% went from 500 players to 500,000 players, and you encounter them more.
I do agree with Dim Papanick, though. Sometimes, the sarcastic "awesome" and "woohoo" are more about the state of the match as opposed to just you. Now, if someone does the whole "You rock. Wait. No. Cancel that.", that's completly flaming.
+Cookieofdoom well, did you play mario once the game was over?
If I screw the team over, I apologize profusely for it. At the same rate, when someone screws me over, I may get a little annoyed, and voice it, but I don't rant. I complain, maybe once or twice, then just drop it. I don't shout, curse, or anything, I just usually say something like "I thought you said you had my back" or "That wasn't very nice". I'm very calm in multiplater games. Ironically, I RAGE in singleplayer games, shouting at my controller, the game, and my own incompetence.
DuskShadowBrony (LittleShadowGames) When no one can hear and there is no one else to blame. Who doesn't get mad at themselves like that?
+FraggingBard the phrase is "passive aggressively" not "passively aggressively"
***** I think you need to learn what 'rant' means before you try (and epically fail) to sound like a somewhat intelligent living being.
+DuskShadowBrony (LittleShadowGames)
Yup, exactly. I never really get mad at other players unless they intentionally ruin my game,
it's not like I don't want to but I just don't feel rage towards them lol.
Often I even get excited because there's an opportunity for them to learn from me, and if not, mistakes just happen.
If they happen often, it's time to focus your practise on it. It's good information on how you should improve, and being negative about it isn't gonna motivate him (nor you) to improve.
Really, it's often just an easilly analyzable problem to improve upon more quickly than you would otherwise, that's a good thing, you finally find an opportunity to rapidly improve :)
+DuskShadowBrony (LittleShadowGames) You're the good type of people I love in games. The rational type. :D
4:05 "THANKS OBAMA!"
rofl
I'm glad I saw this. I do this... often and I'm not proud of it. I'll try hard to be more self aware of when I do this.
+Lapis Riolazuli Recognition is the first step to self improvement. ;)
+Lapis Riolazuli This is the best strand of comments I've seen on RUclips in a very very long time.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that I am also very guilty of this and I also need to be self aware of it.
+Lapis Riolazuli The trick is blaming lag. That is nobodies fault but simply the result of how the internet works.
+Sebastian McIntyre DAMN YOU COMCAST!
I'm so guilty of it....
To be fair the blueberries in battlefield can be pretty bad...
Same here. I found myself really losing my temper while o played pvp in Dark Souls. I made the mistake of thinking that since i conquered the game, player characters should be no sweat.... ha, nope. However i eventually had to take a break, breathe, and evaluate my play style. So i started making multiple characters and multiple builds, to see which one stuck. It was a whole lot of trial and error, with more error of course.
Tldr; try to use your losing streak to learn feom it. Step back, breath and adjust fire so to speak.
The thing I hate the worst about toxicity, is insulting the other team. SPECIALLY if they're winning against you. Like seriously, what's the point? They are just other people trying to play, like you are. Even worse is when they say "you are a noob", when they lose. Well, if you lost to a noob, what does that make you?
that makes you a worse player. I like to think that noobs area better than scrubs, so from my view, they are scrubs. Unless you are playing robocraft where the server's worse player can be the best by playing in an op bot.
Honestly that's a drop in the ocean in comparison to the winning enemy calling you terrible those people are just the worst kind of players.
Keith That's the worst. Saying how they won is already kind of pushing it, but insulting the losing team for losing is not ok. I've adopted that opinion after seeing the matchmaking of robocraft.
Still of say lol and many online games are doing a lot to fix this problem. Behaviour systems are the right step.
Keith It's a great thing that they are. Let's hope that they keep marching in that direction, regardless of any obstacles.
that why i blame the LAG always the lag
I do that a lot to, even if I'm not lagging sometimes. It's especially easy because no one can tell you you aren't
I only blame the lag when it is the lag, even if it helped me win. Sometimes the lag is IRL
mitshua*holds tab* Hmm, your ping is 5
Sticky Rice
"I'm lagging so much my ping readout is lagging too"
doesn't help. I've had people rage at me personally because my lag is bad. What the blueberry fuck am I supposed to do about it? peddle faster?
Freedom of speech does not equal freedom from consequences. That's like being upset you got fired from your position as head of PR for a company after going out in public and accusing the company of being full of pedophiles. I absolutely believe that speech should have consequences. If you are nothing but spiteful, vitriolic and toxic, you damn well should lose your rights to communicate with other gamers. Should you be jailed for it? Of course not. But don't pretend like it's an issue of free speech. It's not. That's a lame cover for you just to be an ass.
Truth. But sadly alot of people here dont seem to get that or dont want to. It's like screaming "bomb" in an airport. Sure I can say it, no one is preventing me. And I can call people who get upset from my actions "whiny and overly sensitive and cant take a joke". I have the freedom to say it, but I dont have the freedom to not be tackled by the authorities as a result of my actions.
***** I'm not looking for control, and there won't be consequences if we just throw up our hands and say, "Well it's impossible, it'll never be good." Every forum, every game should (if they wish to have any respect) police for toxicity.
CollegeLion Freedom of speech only applies to the public life, AKA the government can't stop you/punish you for saying whatever you want in public. It applies in no way to the private life though, AKA I can kick you out of my house/ fire you for saying stuff I don't like.
CollegeLion Doesn't matter college. You should know it actually is about freedom of speech, no matter how much you hate it.
Justdarty Look up the American constitution because you have it wrong. Freedom of speech implies everywhere in the United States of America. The only reason I could agree with you is if it said in fine print "not liable for getting persons fired/maimed/ridiculed."
I don't know, I was always under the impression that there were 2 types of "Talking Shit" when it came to games, there's the actual "Shit talking" and then there is "Competitive Banter" which is less about angering your opponent and more about dues. It's the kind of stuff where you call all the plays you see, not just the bad ones, where you compliment your opponent for that awesome combo they just used, and then laugh at them for blowing themselves up because they accidentally hit the grenade button. It's about being fair. If you're going to call someone on their bad moves, then you also have to point out there good moves.
I do believe that in any game where there is specifically player opposition, there is a certain amount of _in game_ hostility, simply for the fact that the point of the game is to reach the objective and the opponent is in your way. I will never believe that there should be no heat between players in fighting or FPS/TPS games because the main premise is combat, of course there are limits, like on Cross Assault, but the will always be some hostility.
But it's about Sportsmanship. To have good sportsmanship, you have be fair, and being fair is being able take criticism as well as give it, but also be able to not only criticize what others are doing wrong, but compliment others for what they are doing well.
Welded Rook Well said dude, this is precisely what I think that the whole LoL community should think, hell, ANY competitive game.
Alfredo z. Yeah, like, I just started playing Rocket League, and, first of all, let me say, it's a great game, and I absolutely love it. Anyway, one of the things I do, and have seen others do is laugh. A lot. At everyone. And everyone one, or almost everyone laughs back.
You miss a realy close goal, your opponent is gonna laugh,
You score on yourself, your opponent is gonna laugh, and maybe say "thanks" or "That was dumb"
You get explodiated, a ceremonious "Boom" might be seen
BUT, you can also see, "Wow, that was awesome" or "HOLY SHIT" or "Sunnovabitch, I didn't think you'd make that, nice shot" and so, it balances out, it's okay to *_banter_*, it's okay to laugh at, and congratulate, it's not okay to insult, or never give props.
that's why you can mute and keep playing not cry about it
exactly what I was thinking! :) Friendly banter is a part of any competitive atmosphere, and actually makes the whole experience that much better. Trash talking, however, is entirely different, and doesn't help things in the slightest.
My friends and I all trash talk each other. We do it sarcastically and ironically. We would never talk like that to someone who we didn't know or we aren't well aquatinted with yet.
The most appalling thing is that people actually use the whole "it's just a joke bro" excuse as a get-out-of-jail-free card. They harass other with the intention of being mean, then turn around and claim to be innocent when someone calls them out. Absolutely disgusting.
Exactly. People be thinking they talk however they want to newcomers.
In about 50 csgo competitive matches I've been kicked 5 times for not playing up to standard. Just today it was a 1v1, I lost, and in 10 seconds I was votekicked. Another was a match we were comfortably winning, but they votekicked me in the last round because they probably thought it would be funny.
Every single other match either had everyone silent, or everyone screaming at each other. I strongly encourage everyone to report harassers for that, harassing. If a single person gets enough reports eventually they'll be looked at and swiftly dealt with. Slowly we can fix the problem
just play with a friend
TheReal Kanye nice mayme xd
+TheReal Kanye This is exactly what the video told you NOT to do, idiot.
Half the reason why my mates and I don't generally play with PUGs... The trolls, the rages and the people who are unwilling to work together only to blame others for their failings...
The toxicity, in the city... IN THE CIIIIITYYYYY....
Welp, gotta go listen to it now :D
how do you own disorder, disorder?!
Awesome song!
Jay I was looking for this comment xD
it was the firs thing I thought when I saw the title of the video, and the only reason I watched it xD
Of our city* :D
When I play online, I find it easier to quit after a loss than a win. When I lose, I want to consider why I lost, but when I win, I'm hooked.
It's so true that it's often one of the bottom players that starts shouting, "NEWB TEAM!". The greatest comebacks in gaming history often happen once that person ragequits. It's like everyone suddenly starts playing better. Or, y'know, the dead weight toxic spewing zombie is gone.
+DatFox89 Pretty much. I've seen so many games where the one person raging is the one who recklessly charges into the enemy, desperate to gain the slightly advantage only to be shut down immediately and blame the ones who didn't followed his flawed logic.
I got a League of Legends advert right next to this video
XD wow
Order & Chaos because who cares about casuals when you have that sweet E-sport money. better make a balance game out of 8 champions at a time and ban the people who play off meta roles and suceed with it
mansuy adrien well, e-sports events tend to lose money than gain... so not a lot of ‘sweet money’ to be made there
* Wipes away tears *
That ending was... beautiful
Argh! This #@%$ing video won't stop lagging. It's player 1's fault.
No, you just need to git gud.
The new RUclips update makes lag really over-powered, so that's the fault.
THANKS OBAMA
Don't worry homie, it's tank meta, you're good.
Don't sweat it, RUclips's memory usage is just buggy in this patch.
I find game-rage to come in stages for myself personally. If i'm starting out and getting my butt kicked... I'll give a "OH! Come! On!"... if it happens again... I'll say it again... sit up... start really focusing on the game.
It's at that point that one of two things happen. Either the focus wins out and I start performing well... Or I continue to get served. That's when the irritation really sets in. Gameplay suffers from my own distraction... That's when I know to call it quits... Todays just not my day.
Alot of rage and toxicity can be channeled away with that last thought. Even if you dont call it quits for the day... take a step back, take a breath... go get a cold drink or something... Come back calm and ready to go. 'Rage' is a debuff that just keeps stacking... gotta let the timers run out and let it wear off :)
Same! Its almost a science! When im on a roll, i got my feet up, button the the top of my pants undone, a chilled mountain dew sitting in my massive belly button hole. Then as i start getting closer and closer to rage my posture becomes so perfect if I look up and open my mouth A broom could go right from my bumhole out my piehole!
+brownkv081 Your-- your-- uh, your intestines don't-- they would get in the way...uh, of that. D:
My butt getting kicked personally in competative games (pvp in MMOs mostly) almost always stems from one of two things, one of which brings me glee: Either I was horribly ganked because capturing the one node that is always a meatgrinder is all my team cares about and I got jumped, frustrating to a point where I produce rants that end up 75% censored by either me or the profanity filters if it happens more than thre times in a row after I recapture it solo...again; or I end up ganked and hunted by half the enemy team because I managed to get them that irritated, which I tend to be great at, which normally leads to my team winning (when they don't all suddenly start diving head first into every environmental deathtrap).
Lol "Welp at least I did good."
Anybody's who's had good game but lost due to a not so good teammates has said this.
+Kroatowa i have
+Kroatowa CSGO in a nutshell
Counter-Strike is not about taking aim duels against master guardians. It takes teamwork, to carry a team.
This is literally me
I don't care wether I win or lose just as long as I get a good KILLSTREAK and have fun doing it, that's literally all that matters to me
+Kroatowa I typically say this
one time someone on my team was sad because he had 26 straight losses in his session and i encouraged and cheered him on and he carried the team
Exactly why I do not get into multiplayer and PC gaming. Since raging is common now a days, I see no point in playing with others as I just get criticised over and over and over...there is no end to it. Also, just the though of PvP scares the living daylights out of me.
Ragers and trolls, yup, it's why I won't play mmos.
3:12 No, it can't be. THE MANA SCREW IS HERE! RUN AWAY!
OH I lost my s*** when I saw this: :4:00
I just cracked up so bad! Oh, you guys.
THANKS OBAMA!
I like the Blame Canada part
4:06 I thought that was just something really funny. It was so random.
I know, too funny
"Thanks Obama"
Random=Funny
"Zed Op" oh the days...
sleep well my main. One day, we shall rise again.
Also, ironically enough, Tryndamere is extremely OP this patch.
... huh.
+maximyth100 on the boards people still complain with Zed being OP and "being able to farm very easy yadayada"
sure opinion echo there survives for a long time.
Enrico Boccardi Well, search for literally any assassin on the boards and you'll find about 30 posts saying they're OP. People still think Akali is OP ffs.
Generally whenever anyone says "Zed OP" I just immediately ignore all their other opinions because there are two items in the game that might as well be renamed to "BUY THIS, PRESS THE BUTTON, BEAT ZED." and yet people still go "he has no counterplay even though I could just dodge his abilities, or buy a single item, or just not feed him in lane, or just not stand DIRECTLY ON HIS SHADOWS." T_T
maximyth100 truth u.u
+Enrico Boccardi Yeah man its truth when you're playing adc having a good time and the mid laners zed which is 8-2 shits all over you're dreams
+my songs Bob well, if you think about it even the 10/3/8 tank or the 0/1/22 support can shit on your dreams if they play well ;)
3:16 Wow James. I'm actually impressed.....by that pose.
This reminds me of why I stopped playing LoL. Even when our team won, the level of toxicity from some of the players would just suck out the joy in playing the game.
A kid in high school is getting abusive, bullying texts.
Eventually, he decides to commit suicide.
Everyone has the right to be respected as a fellow human being. Free speech is part of that, but in order to be part of any functioning society sacrifices must be made. Free speech is the right to express yourself and your beliefs. It does not give you the right to be offensive.
GallantBlade475 I'm truly sorry for that and I hope things can turn out better for the next person that's in a Dilemma like that. But with internet not only is it painfully easy to bully, humiliate, and/or stalk someone and evade consequences. This whole debate about free speech is BS. It's mostly fragile egoed and self righteous narcissists who want to deflect blame for there own words and actions. Freedom of speech isn't the denial of consequences for what you say. It's the denial that the government cannot prevent, control, nor deflect you from expressing your beliefs. So AMEN to what you said
mr depression's coming
I would just like to say...words cannot express how grateful I am for that suggestion at 4:40. This advice works 9 out of 10 times whenever I use it. It's so beautiful - sometimes touching - to see people's aggression just melt away and see insults be replaced by apologies.
Thank you. Thank you so so much.
Some trash talkers I ask about this say that there's no way people take what they say seriously. They clearly don't realize their impact (some)
Sadly it's not only in games but also with bullying in school. For some reason people never notice the damage they're doing.
I have to say, once I cut non-MMO competitive online multiplayer out of my gaming diet, I really felt like I had rid myself of annoying and addictive habit that brought with it little more than frustration and rage and commonly ended up bringing out the worst in me gamewise. Sure, when the stars aligned and I was assigned to teams and played against teams that were more or less equally balanced in terms of skill, win or lose, the match would still be satisfying, but the vast majority of the time either we would get steamrolled and suffer a frustrating defeat, or we would steamroll and enjoy a fruitless victory. The minority of times fair matches occurred just weren't worth all that mental strain.
A event quiet interesting happened to me recently when I was playing Rome 2 total war. We were playing a 2v2 match in which I was pontus, my teammate was Sparta and out opponents were Rome and the seleucids. Me and my teammate positioned our troops at either side, our opponents did the same and the game became basically two different battles. Halfway through the game my teammate started calling me a noob and telling me how I sucked. I ignored him as from experience there is no talking to these sorts if people. Then as his battle began to end with his opponent winning and in my battle I triumphed over my opponent. My teammate then started to complain that it was me sucking that made him lose the battle. I again kept quiet. The thing that makes me think our community is starting to fight this is that my opponent started to defend me stating there was to separate battles going on and that he lost fair and square. Then because of this my teammate quit. I think then that the way to combat this is to fight it as a community
Very excellent video. Glad I found this for how much toxicity I experience in the games I play. Just earned another sub my man.
"Really good players don't tend to trash talk"
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. This is one of those statements that really can't just be glossed over, even with the slight hedging he threw in.
+Freddie Simmons True enough. In smite we got a guy who works with hirez and plays pretty well but does NOTHING but trash talk his teammates.
I really wish they would get rid of him, as he sets a bad example for the game.
+materiauser
lmao, dmbrandon doesn't just trash talk his teammates.
His job is to know everything about the game, and the guys he parties up with are easily Pro level.
However, the randoms he gets are terrible. I'd probably get into mid-leagues in Ranked, and I wouldn't even make those mistakes.
He gets people making accounts multiple times a day just to come into chat and be an absolute shitbag to him, and he gets pm's daily about his dead sister.
He isn't even that bad. He has strong opinions, and he backs them up. Whenever someone attacks him, he doesn't even attack back. The community of Smite is easily a thousand times worse than he ever was.
Dargona1018
In terms of his skill, I never said he was a bad player. That doesn't mean you can put everyone down though. I mean he even talked crap about the players in the 2015 SWC. His job there is simply to cast the action going on not criticize the best players in the world.
If you think that is normal for smite players I feel bad for you having to deal with that all the time. I mostly play with my clan and we have an anti bm rule so none of that happens when I play except the occasional enemy player upset that we are playing together as a clan\friends.
materiauser
His job isn't to simply cast the action. He needs to know everything about the game and it's players. If that means he isn't allowed to have opinions about the things that he knows (better than anyone else, almost guaranteed).
He also doesn't put everyone down. You must have only seen the anti-dm propaganda that the shitlords spread every chance they get. I've been watching him for a while, and at least once every other game, he compliments a teammate or enemy for a good play. He only complains when his team does something stupid, and that just happens to be a lot.
It's not normal for Smite players, no, but it is for the community. There are good people, but easily 50% of the community hates dm, simply out of ignorance (not meaning it in any offensive manner). They only see what the loud minority want people to see, not the good things that he has done.
I honestly believe that he is the person that wants the game to succeed the most, has put the most effort into helping the game grow, has the most invested, and is quite possibly the most important person in Smite.
I really hope that now, with Bart and Kelly gone, and dm really being forced into the spotlight, people will actually take the time to form their own opinions instead of joining the senseless mob.
Dargona1018
I watch DM a lot actually, like I've said twice now, I think he's a decent player that I can learn from in terms of his gameplay. However in almost every vid he has he puts down people. Even his compliments are pretty backhanded.
No he should NOT be telling world champions that they are stupid and doing everything wrong. It's not entertaining to watch as a viewer and I'm willing to bet the pros don't appreciate it either.
anyway it's obvious we are going to have 2 different opinions about the guy and neither of us are going to change it, so before this spirals further downward I will just say we can agree to disagree.
I don't trash talk anyone. I don't see the point. You should be respectful of your fellow gamers regardless of friends or not.
"Quit being a dick."
"WHAT ABOUT FREEDUM OF SPECHE!?!!!!111!"
>This is why I don't play online games anymore -_-
It is more abuse of freedom of speech.
Ummm it has happened to me a bit but meh, the only online up game I play is heroes of the storm
When I saw this and watched it fully, it made me happy. Happy because I know im not very toxic, and I help out my team verbally or by action. And when I help a person stop being toxic as well, that makes me smile even more.
Wonderful video. I really needed to hear someone bring these points up and come up with very logical answers.
i lost it at the "thank obama" part.
Anyone who relies on cruelty to win in a video game is basically admitting they are unskilled.
You just described 50 to 75 percent of the fgc.
The Squid floppers
I discovered this channel (particularly this show) just a few days ago, and this is my favorite one. Well said, my friend. Well said.
The amount of good advices on this channel is overly too damn high ! Thank you guys, you're doing a great and entertaining job.
"Thanks Obama!"
I died
3:46 I strongly disagree. It is way more frustrating to lose a game when it's not your fault. I'm having a 20/0 game and my entire team is 0/50. This is so frustrating, i'm doing the best i can and we still lose the game ... people running into walls, being afk etc. Why would i ever be happy about being the best player in this round even though we still lost?
Thank you so much for this video, helped me a lot with my toxicity problem
more than 6 years later (if not more, cause i recall this one being on the escapist originally), and still one of the top videos you've done concerning video games, not a knock.. just how good this one is
I stopped playing competitive online games just for the reason Dan said. I'd go out of my gaming session unhappy or more irritated than I was before playing the game. I realized this way I'd lost the true purpose of playing the game which was to have fun.
Try garden warfare :D no one trash talks there, I have played for almost a year and no one even uses a mic. Could just be my luck
whats that
Kalernor plants vs zombies garden warfare, a 3rd person multiplayer online shooter made by popcap and published by ea where the plants have to defend goals in certain game modes, or attack and the zombies do as well. You can also play garden ops which is 10 waves of defending a garden as the plants. I don't explain it well but if you look up reviews you will be able to see what I'm talking about. It's my fav game.
you see when I personally trash talk, it's to friends, or people in a group that i am also a part of, so when i trah talk people, i say stuff like: " you are the big stink" or something that only an actual kindergardener would think it's actually instulting
I don't comment often but after watching this I really want to say thank you to the whole Extra Credits team. We need more voices like yours!
Here's an idea for a way to help curb bad behaviour: Give players who are reported as behaving badly a 5% penalty to their attacks' damage for a month. They can still play, but their bad behaviour will make things harder for them.
*"Toxicity"* is the main reason I don't play MMOs, or use the online feature of my Games all that much.
Seriously! is it too much to ask for "Friendly" online players I can rely on!? 😟
Nine_Tails137 >friendly
>mmo or mobas
>gudjokebro
*****
Huh???
Nine_Tails137 seeing any friendly players in a competitive setting is almost impossible, is what i'm trying to say.
*****
Well, I've played an MMO on Gaiaonline called ZOMG!, and very Rarely do I ever get Teammates who help me when I really need it! Not to mention there's this one spot in the MMO that awards large amounts of Gaia Gold, and yet everyone Bitches at newcomers who gold farm in that specific Area.
Hense "Toxicity".
The only time I recall having Teammates who Help me out when I really need it, was during online play in Dynasty Warriors Gundam 3.
not even to be friendly, just to not open chat if they don't have anything nice to say, you can think whatever you want, but if it's negative, no need to spread it.
the problem isn't losing for me, it's never winning.
"Don't talk smack, just carry harder." This is my new favorite quote.
This was by far one of the most relatable episodes I have seen. Im not proud of my past of much gamer rage. I have made strides in bring it down, and realizing, it is just a game, and its supposed to be fun. So if I win, awesome. And if I lose, I'll suck it up. Plain and simple. : )
In a way, the mention of football players makes me wonder why gamers get all the hate. You have football players who have been caught on camera committing assault and domestic abuse, but then gamers are the ones who are so horrible because some of us say mean things to each other? Our society as some really messed up double standards.
Douglas Byrd because games are new, so they are easy to blame, we gamers understand what id our gaming environnement. but others don't, since they only see it as a "game" and don't understand the interest. for most 40 years adults games are just a way for kids to whaste time, and so they think video games kind of like table games, only more expensive and violent (because remember, the only games that exist are COD, GTA and sex simulator mass effect).
and because it is easyer for medias to buzz around how games make our childs violent and addicted. how a person became a serial killer because they found a copy of COD in his house (how rare for a teenager of his age...), while they completly ignored the serval photos of womens with threir head cut off.....
we are partialy responsable for that tho, as both developers and publishers tend to run in the face of obviously false critisism, even while they were backed by a huge amount of players, ready to support them day and night. we need to stop those critics, we need to make a stand against those assaults, we need to make them understand that video games are just a format of media that need serious rebranding. developers, publishers, gamers, if we do this together we can elevage videogames to the level of art. we shoud not be persecuted for things TV, films and litterature do all the time.
I agree, except on one thing. you seem to have the same atitude towards table games as being 'just for kids'...
*****
they are not, but rules for adults and what they do with games are way different. i am a heavy gamer, a real heavy one. i take into consideration what i buy. i know what i do, i know what i want, i fight for our art, i try to argue with everyone. the problem is that, like TV before, people see something new and exiting and throw it out in the trash to protect themselves. we humans want change, but in secret we only like it when we are prepared to it, or if we beleive it is a good thing. when TV apeared, young people jumped into it, but older people blocked it completly, saying it was very bad, and all sort of stuff. then started the fake studies to show how good books are and why you shoud buy them (absolutly not sponsored by book publishers) instead of watching TV or the news. then big corporations came into the mix, and because people started realising how good TV was, they stoped and TV became what it is today. now, it is the same for games, it was fine when it was a closed console comunity, and now people tend to freak the fuck out for nothing cause now games are expanding everywere, faster than any TV show, more diverse than cinema, more honest than the media. a lot of companies, back in 2001, decided to unite against the newly released PS2 of sony, and just send the hate train on them, bombarding the console with fake studies about how dangerous it was to play it, to let your kids play it, how games made you more violent, fat, stupid, lonly, ect...
we all know that all of this was fake, that not only games make us smarter, the PS2 was the best selling console of all time. and now that big companies are thrown into the mix, you would thing they hate would have stoped, like the TV?
well there is one major flaw: it happened too fast. and the people with their heads flooded with fake studies, false informations about games, that were formated to hate them? well now those guys are the ones in the media, the ones directing states, the ones making laws, the ones selling stuff, and the ones raising childs. all that bad stuff transfered to huge bulshit because the huge shitload of lies that were dispensed around didn't have the time to leave the human majority. and now, not only the yought is in confrontation with the older, but the big games are in competition with retarded media directors, only wanting to buzz, with lawyers who ban games without even knowing them, and with people critizising games for being honest and showing serious content, but they are OK when a film or TV does it?
That and the misconception going around saying that video games make us violent.
ShizaruBloodrayne
well somehow the more you don't know about something the more power you have to control it. cause no one will listen to a gamer, but everyone will listen to an angry feminist bitching about how games are violent against women or whatever
1:59 I'm disappointed that the words _They just win_ weren't accompanied with a picture of Charlie Sheen.
Online competitive games are actually a pretty neat place to practice your decency and your social behavior with total strangers. Getting chain kill without insulting your nemesis, not getting cocky and condescending when leading the game, not being a jerk when failing completely, apologizing when you play like a fool, forgiving an unfortunate or newbie team-killer mate and finally quitting the game before nerves break. Most of all, not using anonymous status to unleash tons of craps on others, without consequence. That's a pretty challenging task in Chivalry, but that's a kata for anonymous social skills. And that's actually pretty self-rewarding!
Found out bout this channel today, saw a handful of videos and I've gotta say, you guys have very reasonable, relatable and generally good content.
Heck! I'd say you've hit my top three channels on RUclips.
Keep up the good work, YYou guys are the voice of gaming in book XD
"Hey Buddy quit being a jerk!"
other player: "I'm not your buddy, friend!"
"I'm not your friend, guy!"
"He's not your guy, buddy!"
nnnnnice!!! xD
Aaand that's the reason why I play TES and Fallout.
...also Neverwinter Nights, KOTOR, Mass Effect, Dragon age, Deus Ex etc.
themurmeli88 I don't know, some of those asari seem pretty trashy...
I'm normally a very calm person and I don't fall into pitfalls of anger in the real world (I guess because I don't put much emotion into the real world) but in games I just turn into a surging ball of red hot rage. But I've found that just stopping and eating a bite of food, maybe having a tea or talking about it actually helps
That's why it says on every game "Online interactions not rated by the ESRP"
I often find that being overly nice to people in online games, especially League of Legends, often defuse the flaming party (or parties) before hand. Every time someone kills or get a tower in lol on my team, I write gj or wp. Even if someone escapes a gank I sometimes do this if I know they are tilting, like "Nice escape, buddy, gj." or something like that. Beyond that, I will often jump in defense of the one being attacked, like "come on, it's not his fault, I gave Talon some kills too, in the beginning." or "Come on, don't flame, we can still do this." When I switched to this attitude back in the day, in a matter of 2 seasons, I got from bronze 4 to gold 4. And I generally do get better games because of this.
I often don't mute them either, unless it's me they are targeting, and when I mute them, it's often because I'm already tilted and need to focus on the game itself.
I joke about how bad I am. "I'm so bad, my ancestors are shaking their heads in shame", or "Yeah, I suck..... for 5 bucks." Because this is how you defuse someone going after you. If you can make them laugh, they can't flame you.
I got silver 3 after my placements this season, and I'm slowly climbing my way up, and I know it's in large part because of this attitude.
Just a tip, be overly nice, joke about yourself, and keep yourself in the game. :)
Another option could be agreeing about the game difficulty. Maybe point out that player x is super good and offer tips or plans for defeating player x. Helping the player get better might not only diffuse the situation now, but help them avoid such frustration in the future. Better still, they may even remember that subtle act of kindness and help someone else down the road.
Subscribed for this video. Very well-said.
THANK YOU FOR THIS! I always play better when people are polite and play the game to become friends with other players. I understand getting upset with a game, but you don’t need to take it out on other people. I always try to say “Hi!” before a match. People tend to react better in game if you say “Hello! How are you?” into the chat. If you stay positive and aware of your own ability, games tend to be a better experience.
It's hard for me to judge that trash talk incident, because people claim it's a natural part of the competitive fighting game scene - which I'm not part of.
But if it is normal there, two questions remain:
1. What level of trash talk are we talking about ? "You suck." and "I hope your entire family dies of cancer." are two very different levels of trash talk.
2. Should it be normal at to what extend ? I certainly don't think the latter example should be the norm - and I doubt it is - but what about the former ? Where should the line be drawn ?
In my view:
Acceptable: Giving advice in a friendly manner and/or jokingly (and make it clear that your joking) make mild "insults".
For example:
"We did not do well it that match. [insert player here] why didn't you do [action in game]?"
or
We did not do well it that match. I think we would have done better if [insert player here] wasn't so bad at sniping [note that this sentence should be said without any maliciousness at all] . I think if you changed classes it would be better.
Also, if you did badly in that match, acknowledge it by saying "Yeah it was kind of my fault as well, I think I should have done better."
Not acceptable: Actually insulting people in a none joking manner.
i personally feel that that going by the quote "be humble in victory and gracious in defeat" is what we should judge as the line.
example:
instead of after a game were you lost going:
"omfg if i didn't have noob team i would have stomped you." or"oh you just play cheap champs. "go "gg man that was fun you played well." or "ya i need to learn how to play against trynd better."
or when you win instead of going:
"ha gg easy" go. "gg you guys played well thanks for the game. :)"
this to me is good sportsmanship. that doesn't mean we cant jokingly trash talk with them though, cause that's not being un-humble its just lightning the mood, but do make it clear that you are so there are no hurt feelings. :)
I hate it when people say that "competitive" environments give you the right to not have sportsmanship. That's shite. I remember I was playing Counter-Strike: Global Offensive once in a random matchmaking match and I was the MVP practically every round a guy in 3rd/4th was constantly hurling abuse down the mic at newer players. (I have almost 10 years of CS experience) so I said to him "You're not doing anyone any favours by dragging the team's morale down. Teach them something or help them become better players. They will never become better if all you do is berate them." To which he gave me an earful with all the "WHATDOUKNO" style attitude. I then told him if was as good as he claimed to be, he wouldn't have to scream it out for all to hear. He then mocked me after dying when it was a 4 v 1 situation, and I made it a 1 v 1 before going down. Next time we spawned he started intentionally friendly firing, teamflashing etc etc and at that point the "Okay, fuck this." box got ticked in my head. [*Respawn*] [*Buys AWP*] [*Aims at knob's head*] 3...2....1...-[*BOOM*] I then voted to kick him and of course, everyone agreed almost instantly XD Then the guys thanked me at the end of the match both for the skill and the wisdom... We won btw :)
What I'm saying in a nutshell is skill is nothing without discipline. You may be the best shot/tactitian in the game, but it doesn't mean anything if you crumble at the slightest error. We all moan and groan at cock-ups made by newbies but do it alone, don't screech at them down a mic. Just say something along of the lines of "Nice try :) Next time you might want to try 'X' though :)" I've done that multiple times, and while spectating them see them run into the same situation and this time do it correct and it's a great feeling :)
Wow. These people have too high pride.
Sportsmanship literally exists to make competitive environments less stressful than they already are. -.-
Even in Pro competitions where the pros are sat head-to-head about 2ft away from each other there is no chanting or constant yelling or abuse. As mentioned if you're as good as you think/say you are (pro) you'll act like one. Professional. Not some child with a mic learning the entirety of the English swear word vocabulary. The only time I see them yell is when they win. Not a round, the entire match/tournament. Except this one CSS pro match. U.S. Core Vs. U.K. Salvo. If I remember correctly, and the American guys unfortunately were constantly taunting and being obnoxious until they were finally beaten by Salvo and had made themselves look like idiots by acting that way earlier :S Just shows that cockiness doesn't amount to the skill you have lol. Btw, I wasn't jabbing at the Americans specifically, just those 5 guys, so don't be offended XD
I have a similar attitude to you in natural selection 2, i'll see a rookie playing poorly and i'll think to myself. (oh, man another rookie..) instead, i'll keep an eye on them, point out any obvious mistakes and suggest how they can improve. oftentimes they will just not listen :P.
but the ones that do, play better for it. and like you said..."while spectating them see them run into the same situation and this time do it correct and it's a great feeling :)" couldn't agree more
Your statement reminded me of a good Roman quote that I found from RTW2: "It is a bad plan that cannot be changed." By that I mean there is no skill in having a perfect plan if one of your teammates doing something slightly different than you anticipated throws your whole game off.
You have a very good point, I just wanted to bring up that quote.
The art in this video made me lol. I especially liked the series of frames where LeeLee is raging. Nice job!
You guys are all so awesome and wise! Thanks for all the amazing videos with fun facts and words of wisdom! =)
I only ever blame 2 things, my slow Australian internet and sniper riffles being impossible to prepare for.
This reminds me of a match I had in League a while back. We had a Katarina that was going against a Talon and was doing kinda bad. They were getting down on themselves and our team was kind of getting annoyed at them for dying so much. So I stepped in and said that Talon is hardcore Anti-Mage and he is a hard check to Kat and that I'll gank Mid more to help her push. Now I pulled the hard-check thing right out of my ass, I just wanted to cool down the team, because an angry team is only going to make things worse.
Of course. Looking over it I can see that it is a bit confusing. Is there anything specific you want me to explain? Or just the whole thing?
Ah, I think I know what confused you.
Okay, so, what I meant about "Anti-Mage" was that Talon is basically a character designed to do well against mage characters, like Katarina. When I said "I'll gank more often" I meant that I'll come down to her lane (which was the middle lane) and help her kill Talon and help her move along in it.
Does that clear things up more? I forgot that that people wouldn't understand what I said if they don't play the game.
This... actually opened my a lot, I always did try and shift the blame, I'll try and be more open minded about my team as a group of individuals that make common mistakes.
Wow this really sheds light on our gaming community I hope more and more people address this problem and game devs should work beside us to make the gaming community a safer place :)
I have a friend that... Reverse trash talks, for lack of a better term. Instead of trash talking the team when she dies she will say something like -I thought we had something! I loved you! xD- or when she gets a good killstreak she will say something like - Free hugs for all!- Instead of insulting bad players or insulting people who are kicking her ass, she makes games like LoL, Halo, and COD a fun game to play whether you are winning or losing. and I think its because of a slight perspective difference between her and most others. Many invest in the game and do their damnedest to win, sure having fun is a close secondary goal and many times the lines between winning and fun are really blurred. Her perspective is that of no matter what she WILL enjoy her games. She will play to win, but whats the point of playing a game your not having fun with? Reversing the normal roles of winning and fun has helped her improve her mechanics and many times helped get her wins by subverting the team with laughter instead of frustration. The only difference? those players walked away happy. sure they had lost, but how can you feel bad when your sides are aching from laughter? anyway, thats my two cents.
got to say its sometime s annoying playing online with the culture differences especially with accents I am British and I've been called out I don't sound British enough,
Good video. Might watch this at the start of my next few Rocket League sessions - I'm one to get rather easily tilted.
I tend to not talk online partly because i rarely have anything important to say and partly because I feel like someones gonna try and start something if I do say something. On the other hand when i see trash talkers or i feel like blaming someone i tend to fume to myself or just(if i'm alone) scream out loud to vent the rage, but this does have a limit before i feel the need to either leave or start getting stingy with the person which doesn't help anything. To see a video like this is amazing and hopefully i can see more people actually act like civilized people instead of 5 year olds throwing a hissy fit(or like Kylo-ren XD)
In my wheelchair, I don't run I fly!!!
Few of my moba playing friends defend trash talking because "if you crack to trash-talking, you're not mentally good enough to play the game." I call that bullshit and up to this day, I never play moba games.
+Kuro Shinko Maybe you just have shitty friends?
well trash talking technically works look at the army training
+Kuro Shinko Mute is your friend.
Funny thing about mobas, if you have time to type you're not contributing. Waiting to respawn and then walking back to lane is about the only free chance people get to type, and guess what has to happen for you to end up in that situation?
I've been really enjoying my time with Paragon so far due to the lack of all-chat, and the fact that even navigating the map and doing the usually "boring" things (last hitting minions etc) requires you to be hands-on. 88 hours playtime as of today and the only toxicity I've encountered has been cut down to the bare minimum because of how little time there is to waste, and the defusal technique mentioned in this video has worked total wonders, bringing people back from tilt almost instantly and often times turning games around.
I think you're forgetting about backing and then walking back to lane. Not everyone who flames/actually gives out legit criticism is trash. I've seen plenty of valid criticism that might come off as frustrated get called out as toxic comments and the likes and while I get there's toxicity in games, we're looking at this in way too much of a black and white view.
Whenever you get those matches though. Those matches when everyone ålays and communicates like a pro team, it feels so good
I really wish I had something witty to say, but I'm just glad for videos that deal with this matter in such a mature way.
Oh god, for any Starcraft player who followed the league-level play... IdrA. He was one of the top-tier zerg players with frankly amazing macro skills. And was one of the most toxic individuals around. Eventually, he ended up getting kicked out of a few clans, and hasn't been heard from in recent times. He got banned from the forums for his attitudes.
The few times he lost, it was typically to an 'all in' type strategy to hit him before he could get his macro going. His disdain of 'cheese' was as legendary as it was vile. It got to the point where it became a community joke... someone spouts obscenities at you for your strategy being 'cheesy' or 'learn an actual playstyle instead of copying someone else's Build Order'... despite the fact that you're clearly winning heavily... the response was 'I bask in your IdrA Rage'.
Oh man does the CS:GO community need this video.
I carry my team for the first half of the game, in the second half they are tearing us apart. In one round of the second half i get an ace and win the round. In the last two rounds my internet decides to say "Hey, fuck you
A fun thing to do is to legitimately compliment the guy that killed you or whatever, one of three things happen, they either get pissed at you for being "so passive," you make a friend and start a real conversation, or you realise they don't have a mic.
For me, it's not about winning, it's about the feeling of being locked in competition with someone who's just as skilled as I am. If I'm not trying to win, I don't get to fight my hardest!
I don't know, I think blame can be used as an educational tool. If you never tell people how bad they are, they're just going to stay bad, or get worse. It's a matter of how you say it though.
Constructive critiscism VS rage.
But is eating seeds a passtime activity?
Great video, thanks!
Halo 5 has this fascination in grifball with putting me on a team me of people who can't collectively stop one guy, and placing us against people who aren't as good as me, but are better than the rest of my team.
I've had so many matches where I'm holding 3 enemies withing their spawn zone, and my teammates get scored on by the one other guy.
It's forced me into a playstyle where I have to do pretty well everything. Hold blue at their spawn, rush back and kill one guy at ours, kill blue at ball, take ball, kill their whole team with the ball, rush in before they spawn cause my team won't be there to cover me.
I try not to get too negative in chat though. If I do, I mute myself. (Not always of course)