Is Flesh and Blood Expensive in 2024?
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- Опубликовано: 30 июн 2024
- Really hoping this sheds some light on the Competitive scene of CC. There are also plenty of different options to get into the game for roughly $10 so make sure to check those out as well!
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I don't know how it is in the US, at least where I'm from, Pauper tournaments are double the size of Modern/Pioneer ones, the guys who play modern and Pioneer play pauper too and of course the people who can't pay the prices of those formats, same in YGO, there are ¨fun tournaments¨ and sometimes are double the size of the current format, same thing, price is a barrier for a lot of people and they still find a way to enjoy the game (with the support of the stores). I didn't start Fab and buy all the staples, I'm still missing tons of legendaries and staples, and I enjoy the game. All of this being said, this should not be an excuse for the Fab community to defend LSS with their reprint policies , they can learn from other games, and try to make the game more accesible for everyone. I know lots of people turn off by just looking at the price of one legendary, I can't defend some of those prices. The Armory decks were a huge miss for me, they could put good reprints in those and cut the price entry to the game. I dont say ¨reprint the legendaries¨, but at least some of the generic M would be appreciate, it's being 5 years and Cnc, AoW, E-Strike, are still not being reprint properly. (I don't count History Pack).
Here in the states, from what I've seen, there are waaaay more players who are looking to "Compete and win prizing" than have fun sadly. I know some LGS communities are branching out for more casual play, but it doesn't seem to draw the same crowd.
Legendaries are very cheap now compared to before 2.0. Sure there are some that go for over $50+ but what most don't realize is that you only need 1, not a playset, and they are swappable between heroes of the same class or any hero if its generic. These allow you to be ready for any hero that enters the format and at least have something powerful in the equipment slot without needing to change much. Not to mention there isn't a strict reprint hold on any legendary, so at any point they can get reprinted, it will probably just be Non foil
Also, I understand peoples pleas to getting "better" reprints in the armory decks, but there were also very strong equipment pieces in these decks on top of having the "bulk" that made the backbone of the deck. Some would even consider Savage Sash a Legendary in of itself. The rarity of a card doesn't mean its its strongest version and if LSS crafts these Armory decks and $40 is all it takes for you to go from not playing at all, to upgrading that deck and getting to the big leagues, then I'd say it did its job.
Keep majestics under 30. No reason for cnc, codex of frailty etc to be as expensive as they are.
@somesortofchemist If there were more singles sellers opening thousands of boxes or even more LGS buying pallets and selling singles, you'd see the prices drop due to supply. I can think of maybe 5 reputable singles sellers and LGS that sell online that open boxes in such large quantities. Players open maybe 1 case during release and then just buy singles, therefore diminishing the supply drastically
@AshenWingzTCG so it's not a printing problem but more of a lack of sellers. Never though of it that way, good point. How do we get more lgs to sell singles?
@@somesortofchemist Get them interested in the game. Can even tell them about the success of several online singles sellers. Most LGS assume that selling the sealed boxes of FaB is what you're supposed to do, but opening them and selling the singles/making starter decks for new players is wayyy more lucrative right now
Exactly how I approach it. I made the mistake of heavily investing in Prism and found out I didn't like her play style. I grew with Bravo and I now run him as my main, but I didn't get all his expensive stuff at once, and I find that I can outplay people on hotter lists just by knowing my hero. There's a freaking Dorinthea main in our community that is an absolute terror. I got crushed by a Shiyana player the other day because I didn't know her deck and made a critical mistake. Know your hero, know the matchups. The most expensive part of Flesh and Blood is the time you put into it, but that's something I NEVER regret spending. I love this game, I even have fun losing! Except ice heroes. Screw ice heroes 😂
The idea of buying a cheap starter deck, blitz deck, etc, and then slowly upgrading it as you grow with the deck seems rather underappreciated. The hobby is not cheap. The hunt for upgrades is part of the fun, I think.
I agree. I feel like I know the deck better as I upgrade it instead of getting all the pieces first
I'll give a perspective of pricings based on my reality, i live in Brazil, here the medium salary is 1.412,00 Reais, wich reads around 248 dolars in a plain conversion. Back in 2022 when the game first came into Brazil, a single copy of Fyendal's Spring Tunic cost around 1.600,00 (again in direct conversion, is around 280 dolars, this is a shitload of money for our standards), but with the tunic got reprinted, and the game became more and more popular here month after month and right now, you can easely found ppl selling tunic for around 450,00 (around 80 dolars), that being said. Flesh and Blood is expensive to getting into has ANY other TCG, because TCG's in general are expensive hobbies period. BUT the price to stay into the game is FAAAAAAAAAAR cheaper than any TCG, you don't need 3 Command and Conquer for each of your decks, you need 3. You don't need a sprint tunic for each of your decks, you need 1. And after you already have those expensive cards, the price to change into a new deck is very cheap in general. For comparisson, if you play modern wth UR Aggro and you want to change deck for a Creatures Toolbox for example, you are fucked because you will have to buy a whole new mana base AND the rest of your deck. I'm not saying LSS if perfect, they made A LOT of mistakes, but their reprint policy are not one of those mistakes.
Glad to hesr the Brazil community is thriving! And yeah, the concept of hotswapping cards between decks is what makes FaB so wonderful. If you already own 3 cnc, the price of every new deck into the meta that runs them goes down by $250, which is just unheard of in most cases lol
40 Dollars for an Armory deck is more expensive then if you wanted to use preconstructed product to play competitive Yugioh [3 structure decks at 10 USD each makes a similar level of a deck]. IDK about Pokemon's precon levels but the game is so cheap you can make a 40 dollar competitive deck for higher level then locals depending on the format.
@SapphicSara $40 is the average price of starter deck product for most TCG's. I'm sure others can do it "cheaper" but most TCG players have $40 to drop on beginner product if not more
Armory decks are casual decks, not competitive decks, and the Kayo Armory deck is really solid with a few changes just including penny cards with better sinergies with the deck. That being said, a commander deck of the latest set is around 140 dollar, for a similar product (casual driven product), so 40 dollars for a deck is not expensive at all...
Yes it is. Doesnt matter how you shape it, its an expensive game if you want to have any "fun". Winning is fun, constantly losing is not.
The unfortunate situation is, is that most areas arent promoting casual play, in fact competitive play is the staple. So your only chance is to have a competitive deck.
The problem with the FaB community is, if you critique it in any way you get piled on by people and not in a good way.
But facts are facts, this game isn't for the casual player.
Fun is subjective. While yes, I'd like to win, if I went into every match knowing i'd be mad at myself or the game because of my loss, I would have quit years ago. It's all about learning and having a bit of patience. Also, while I am saddened that most places are only running CC armories, I know that if your feelings are the same as several other players, starting up a casual scene is fairly simple. Meet at a bar or at the LGS and just run your own little casual event. Maybe seeing numbers for that will put it into perspective for your LGS or community in general. There are tons of "casual competitive" formats available that don't break the bank. While still competitive in nature, the formats don't have a high dollar amount attached to them so $30 goes a long way. So if Casual to you is not wanting to spend more than $50 then so be it, but I would consider that more of a "I just want to see if I like it first" kind of mentality and not someone being a casual player.
That being said, it isn’t a bad way to dip your toes into the format. I do think they need to include a little guide and a sideboard to really help the new player along.
There is AN armory deck right now, and it’s not beating any serious player with a tuned deck.
@teamfroglogcrogdog But there will not be just one deck for long. And obviously they aren't meant to beat a deck that us a direct replica of a World Championship deck, but its gives new players a starting point and thats what its entire existence is about. You could upgrade that deck for $50 more dollars and have it take down an armory if you have practiced enough with it
@@AshenWingzTCGI thought it was a huge miss that they only launched with one and it took more than 2 months before another one was scheduled out. If you and a friend wanted to get in, both of you having to grab Kayo was just silly. I would agree that it’s definitely not bad with some upgrades. I actually ran it as is at my armory. It wasn’t too bad to play, but if you get stuck against something like Wizard or Runeblade, you’re just stuck taking every bit of arcane damage.
@teamfroglogcrogdog Luckily if you upgrade the armory deck for a whopping $20 you can get AB and some staples. Sure it sucked there was no AB included, but its not hard to find. And hopefully the Wizard or Runeblade player will tell you what you need afterwards
The Kayo deck is strong and can win Armories without any changes.
@@ajwebbermaybe if you highroll pretty hard or are the best player in your pool, but I don’t think so at all. You face one wizard or Runeblade and your run is done. Heck, I played a mirror and got hit with the brute equipment that intimidates on defense and that ended my sash turn. You just don’t have the tools by comparison to normal decks. I think the product is good enough for a starter you can bring and have a shot into your games, but really a small sideboard and a little guide booklet would go a long way I think into making these better. That’s all
The game is too expensive. It's not about skill, it's not about fun, it's a simple matter of cost. New players want to play a game that they can afford. What do I mean by afford? I mean I boot up Fabrary and do some research and then put a deck together I want to play and I playtest it on something like talishar and then i go to buy it.
Then you get to the problem, CnC is $80 a pop, Warmongers is $60, Equipment is $100+ (Fyendals, Balance, Spellbound Creepers, Phantasmal, etc), and I hope you don't want a Gem, just get over it. Enlightened Strike and Art of War are at acceptable price points imo around $25-35.
Then you encounter the biggest problem with FaB, the community is in absolute denial of all this. This community is so toxic I brought this topic of cost up in DM Armadas video talking about it and he screenshot it to show off on Twitter so that people could make fun of me on there without being able to defend myself.
I really like what FaB is as a game, but the cost and the community is indefensible
@wulfriksreviews6334 I understand where you are coming from, but you have to realize that I was once a new player, as many of us were. I had the same resources. I booted up Fabrary and realized the price for most of my dromai deck back then was out of budget. But that didn't stop me from finding cards that kind of worked like the ones I was unable to afford and use those instead until I was able to get core cards for the deck.
I went to play at a high level playing field of an LGS and got stomped 0-4 at my first armory, but I'm brand new to the game and didn't do any real practice online. I had tons of fun, even though I lost. All of my opponents went ahead and gave me strategy tips for me to grow as a player and it was very enlightening.
I know not everyone is going to have my experience, but even just starting from a budget and working your way up has merit. Even if you can only afford 1 CnC a month and thats your entire budget, thats 1 CnC closer to your goals AND you can use it in any deck you wish to pilot. Don't view CC armories as some race you need to win the first time you attend. Just go and meet your locals and play around with the cards you can afford. Then as you grow in the game, you can use those cards you were only able to pick up every so often and slowly get more towards your higher power version of the deck. Hell, I know several players at my LGS that will straight up let you borrow cards from their other decks or the deck entirely so you can play with others at a more powerful level. You just have to experience the joy of FaB before committing to spending that kind of money and you can do that for roughly $50
@AshenWingzTCG You must be confused, I'm not a new player, I have 5 decks built, I'm just not a part of the FaB cult. I dont own a single CnC but I randomly have a single Warmongers from Dusk till Dawn. I have all my AoW and Estrikes. I just dont own nor will ever buy a card for over $45. I started playing the game over a year ago now and i stopped going to locals because the scene is nearly dead around me.
Let me ask you, why can't LSS reprint cards that are over $50 until they are under $50? I don't see how Armory decks are supposed to attract new players, you can throw bulk commons, uncommons, and some rares together to play. But once you get in, if you are competitive like me and you see these prices you are out unless you take up what I call the cult of FaB. I'm not trying to compete at a Nats or Worlds, I have kids I'm just trying to compete locally so I do
@@wulfriksreviews6334 I never said you were a new player, simply stating that especially as a seasoned player in the game, you shouldn't be considering the game your playing as a "Cult". We aren't indoctrinating anyone into the game and then treating them unfairly or brainwashing them. We, as creators and players, should be welcoming in people to play the game no matter what. And if your take on the game is "No one should play this because its impossible to get into due to price", then you are just lying to the public so you can feel that you are in the right. TCG's are, most of the time, an expensive hobby. So calling the community a "Cult" and then telling people they will never be great due to prices of, roughly, 15-20 ish cards in your 80 card deck, you are doing the community a disservice and not being very helpful. If your own personal moral is that you don't buy cards over $45, don't push that onto others like its law. If people genuinely cannot afford a TCG, there are budget options. Will you win, not always. But you will learn and become more comfortable with the game. We had a player at our locals who played us with a Kayo deck with no CnC or E Strike and took down the entire armory undefeated. This was also a big victory because they also won against players who were part of Team Ascent. According to your logic, this doesn't happen. But I've seen it time and time again where those powerful cards don't often win the game, otherwise I'd be taking down armories left and right.
As for LSS reprinting cards, it is not impossible that they will never reprint any of the WTR/ARC majestics. Older cards getting non foil reprints happen quite frequently, but the market is what drives these prices. Not many players are opening product. Because of this, not many CnC are entering the market at the rate new players are entering it. Therefore, even if there was a new CnC reprint in an expansion slot, for instance, it would still need to be opened by tons of shops and singles sellers to create the kind of supply that the community would need. If every player opened up a box of History Pack V1 and then sold their copies of CnC if they already had 3 copies, we would be seeing more and more price drops. But because of the lack of supply and increase in demand, the cards price spikes often. What you're asking for is for LSS to make a box topper of some sort or even a reprint in an Armory deck, that guarentees that you get a CnC. While I personally wouldn't mind if that happened, LSS already doesn't like having to work around CnC as it is from a design space, so this option wouldn't help at all.
I'm not sure what answer you are looking for in these regards, but if your own personal morals stop you from spending on a hobby that is almost always going to be expensive in one way or another, then maybe start your own community of players who are looking for that. We have a discord dedicated to playing Clash, the budget Blitz format that we all casually enjoy. We run free to enter leagues every time a set is released and we have more and more people joining it every day. This is an option for those who may not be ready to get into CC if they don't want to worry about "Playing at a budget" at locals. What this video is suppose to say is that you have options, you might just need to be the change you want to see in the game instead of waiting around for LSS to fix everything.
I hope this explained everything~ish. I plan on doing a longer video detailing these exact words to help players bridge that gap into the game. There is so much more than CC and the price of 10 cards in Flesh and Blood and I wish more people would take a step back and realize their options
@AshenWingzTCG No reason to totally misquote me, I never said you could not win without the staples, nor is it my logic. I said there are cards a lot of new players want in their decks and when they see the prices they go "yikes." Never said you couldn't win with a budget list. I even told you I play with one, hence the I don't own cards over $45. I also never said my morals should be yours or anyones. Standard reaction though from this community that can not accept criticism.
Also, there is no supply issue in this game, if you want to know what that looks like play OP where people are spending $150+ USD for a box because there isn't enough supply to go around and store owners hike up the prices to keep up with scalpers.
Flesh and Blood is a cult. Keep reciting to me these mantras that I've heard now from every single content creator including you and local player.
"All TCGs are this expensive!"
"You don't need x card"
"This games doing great it's growing!"
Lastly, yes I will obviously wait on LSS to fix the problem that not only they are responsible for, but only they can fix. Rarities need to be decreased on everything but the foiled stuff. And cards over a certain amount need to come down.
@@wulfriksreviews6334 Sounds like you are very set in your ways and not willing to take a look at other options. Enjoy Flesh and Blood the way you want and hopefully the game continues to be a favorite for you.
I never realized the price points for MTG Modern was so comparable to FaB. really goes to show that peole will go out of their way and compare apple to oranges to make fab prices look worse than they are.
FaB doesn't have a "standard" format, so why would anyone compare it to Standard prices? and similarly with pokemon, everyone knows that pokemon is largely considered a collectors game, no one ever talks about its competitive scene.
I'm happy to have my cards hold value in fab, im perosnally very happy LSS doesn't print and reprint everything into the ground like Pokemon does.
I chose Standard as a price point simply because it is a competitive format that is used in regional qualifiers. Doesn't translate super well to FaB eternal prices, but its to just show competitive decks in multiple games/formats
@@AshenWingzTCG I understand why you used it. In the premise of you video it makes sense. I'm more speaking to the fact that mtg players have and continue to use standard pricing as a baseline when comparing fab and I don't get it.
While I agree that FAB is most comparable to Modern in terms that they are both competitive non-rotating formats, my main issue with that assessment is that FAB's prices are affected only by Classic Constructed while Modern prices are often affected by playability in Pioneer (if legal), Legacy, Vintage, Commander, other formats etc. In short, most of the issue here is that FAB's prices are dictated by demand only 1 format while MTG prices are dictated by demand in multiple formats (when applicable).
Barring that, I think the main issue here is that there is no "budget" format for FAB. The reality for most local stores is that it's often CC or nothing. The (vocal) online community's feelings on non-CC formats confirms this as well.
While for Magic, if Modern is too expensive for your tastes, Commander, Pioneer, Pauper, Standard, plenty of alternate formats exists. Even in the MTG's "expensive" formats, you can have Tier 1.5 - 2 decks for less than $100. In FAB, if you play a $100 deck, you're basically playing Commoner vs complete and competitive CC decks.
There are a multitude of ways to play Magic on a budget. There's only 1 way to play FAB.
I think the solution here is that the FAB playerbase should be more open to the idea of alternate formats. Or they could really just say "f- the casuals, we can survive on purely competitive" because it seems like the game is still growing despite the conversation on deck prices going on for a few years now.
@Deingel12 I'd be curious to see what vocal part of the community is saying CC or Bust. While alot of the community talks about Classic Constructed, there are entire discords dedicated to casual play and most of my content on this channel is about casual play! I do believe if there is a "problem" in this, its that less LGS are trying to run a more casual format. They hear from other stores that CC gets people in because of prize cards, but don't realize that there are prizes to be won for casual events too. As a business, I understand that the more popular format should be given a slot and with most LGS running 6 other TCG nights, it might be hard to fit that in at all. But luckily with Armory decks, its much more accessible than it was previously.
@@Deingel12 my locals runs Commer as a pretty regular format. So my experience is that FaB does have a budget friendly format