I think Birdie’s trauma is valid, he clearly went through a LOT not just online but offline as well, but he should realize that a 2 year age gap isn’t that big. KD was being groomed during that time too.
to a young teenager/child, a gap bigger than 1 year can be uncomfortable. Maybe not in adulthood, but imagine (this is an example) a 7th grader and a 5th grader. During these years you will be a different maturity levels. Also, just because KD was also being groomed, sadly doesn't give it an excuse, but more of an idea why it happened. But also can't hate on KD too much because at that age you have no idea wtf is going on, and during my middle school years I made some comments I didn't realize were wrong too. Just thoughts I had from this comment.
Wtf does valid trauma mean like is there someone out there who checks your trauma and gives you either a thumbs up or no? Just say it happened or it didn't
@@myhax3351like what he went through was awful, horrific, and traumatizing, but I don’t think he wasn’t smart enough to realize a 2 year age gap wasn’t that bad
but the thing with drawing cheese pizza as 12 yo isn't actually worth cancel. as Birdie said, people should be worried about them, not attack them for that. 12 yo is a kid. kids don't understand many things. 12 yo shouldn't know what p00rn is at the first place. if they know and they are making their own (as a drawing or not) it's concerning and it's not their god damn fault? you shouldn't bully someone like this. bulling will not fix anything lol
Fr and birdie got completely harassed over that shit. "Cp" in this case refers to self insert characters they made for themselves...as a minor. The person who made this video worded it in such a way that it sounds like a crime. And the excusing of kittydog was rlly funny, since she got in trouble for the same damn thing.
I really dislike this genre of response video, where the person responding doesn’t have the full context of the situation and interjects every few seconds to commentate and make assumptions
No,they were just weird kids being weird kids.COSCA is an actual thing but what they’ve done is pretty typical for kids in fandoms nowadays and does not match the abuse victims of COSCA have went through.Birdie could’ve said it was a weird thing they’ve done together,claiming it abuse feels like is minimizing trauma survivors have gone through.
Not to mention that Birdie got groomed by actual adults and has gone through some pretty serious stuff.All of this just feels like it’s to be petty and get back at another popular creator,not the first time this sort of thing has happened with Birdie.
I'm so glad that this video isn't sugarcoating his actions. I'm so tired to justify my genuine dislike for him. Also i think this wasn't brought up, but when birdie apologized to everyone they hurt they haven't apologized to himeguts as far as im aware. Which makes me think if he even wants to acknowledge that he also was pretty shitty after breaking it off with hime, and harassing them and being generally a terrible person.
I have no idea about everything that happened (because after a while I just..stopped caring-) but didn’t Hime block them on everything? I believe Birdie not apologizing to everyone for one reason or another
When you're a child and your constantly surrounded by adults that make you believe things are okay, you need extensive therapy to learn what was okay and wasn't. Jack definitely went through traumatic experiences, but I def think the victim blaming on BOTH sides isn't valid whatsoever. People who were once groomed can also be groomers, but Kittydog and Jack will both need therapy and help for what happened to them. I do not doubt whatsoever that Jack was groomed, Kittydog was also groomed. But claiming that KD was also being groomed when this all happened isn't an excuse, they were both children, but maturing is realizing that the situation you were in back then is something you need to avoid heavily when your brain wasn't fully developed. I honestly wish Jack and Kittydog both go to therapy (I believe Jack is in therapy now) and they heal from what happened.
i think that your criticisms were 100% on point. This "drama" is really just blown out of proportion and you're right that when both parties are minors/underage taking part in a community that is not appropriate for people under 18 to be in in the first place, it's really not "grooming" when a slightly older minor (14 is still young) is engaging in suggestive/sexual chat with another minor. It's inappropriate for sure but in this context, it's so clear that both minors in this situation were being groomed into thinking that it was appropriate. Kittydog didn't exhibit any malicious intent neither. And I also like how you highlighted that at no point did this Birdie person tell this Kittydog person to stop. Heck, even Kittydog asked if they should stop but Birdie didn't seem to mind. Again obviously Birdy was a kid but so was Kitty. Birdie may be looking back and regretting this and that's fine but so is Kitty, they both were kids in an inappropriate and misguided situation and it's not that Birdie has to forgive Kitty but don't f*cking call them a "gr**mer". This is just an example of how the word is thrown around so much that a lot of the people in the art community don't even know what it means anymore. And I know you're closer to my age and I'm sure that you will be seeing more of these accusations pop up as the years go by. It's one of the consequences of having minors on the internet now and they'll find themselves getting into places they shouldn't be and get into situations like this.
Did Birdie ever stop to think that maybe KittyDog hasn't reached out to apologize yet because they were also groomed as a child and it takes TIME to realize what happened to you and for you to start to recover from it? "It's been 7 years" Okay, let's think about that for a moment though. Kittydog was 14, so 4 of those 7 years would have been her still being a minor and then just turning into an adult so she's 21 now. It takes some people until their late 20s to earlier 30s to realize what happened to them and then time still to come to terms with that and heal. Yes, it's been 7 years but given how young Kittydog was when she was being groomed I honestly doubt those 7 years where she was still mostly a minor, is enough time for her to reflect and realized how fucked up everything was. Birdie is also not considering that it's very possible that Kittydog was still being groomed for years after she was 14. Which would, you know, make it even harder for Kittydog to be able to realize how bad everything was and heal from it to the point where she could turn around and apologize to the others she hurt with the shit that she thought was normal. Birdie is getting mad at a victim of grooming for being a victim of grooming and lashing out because she didn't help Birdie when Birdie was getting shit, which she doesn't have to do. Kittydog was 14, she probably didn't know how to help or was scared that she might get attacked too if she did. Is it shitty? Yeah, but Birdie being mad that Kittydog didn't help is no excuse for what Birdie is doing to Kittydog now. They're both victims and instead of lashing out at one another, it would be more productive to try to change the animation meme community to try to prevent future victims. I do think that it was a problem that when a 12-year-old was drawing cp no one stepped in to see WHY the 12-year-old was doing that and instead just gave Birdie shit for it but it's zero reason to lash out at Kittydog for it
The fact that Kittydog DID try to reach out well before Birdie's video and yet Birdie ignored that really just seals it for me that the only reason that Birdie claimed that Kittydog groomed him was just to lash out at someone he was mad at still. Birdie doesn't have to accept the apology but he also doesn't get to turn around and claim that an apology was never given
I don't think it was grooming becuese kittydog have no idea what she was doing it was wrong and gross, but I think it wad COCSA. TW: COCSA When i was a kid (I think I wad 6 or 7, idk) a random kid from my class hug me, touch my butt, and tried to kiss me and it was gross. We where both disabled so he had no idea wtf he was doing was wrong (neither I do becuese I was a kid and I was confuse). HOREWER, just becuese we where both kids and disabled does not mean it was normal, in fact IT WAS COCSA. Even he did not mean to harm me, that does not mean what he did it was ok, but I think its the parents and teachers fault for doing nothing.
Immediately cant even finish this video when it just feels like a adult acting righteous people got mad and tried to cancel a MINOR for drawing NSFW of minors without explaining to said minor why it was bad, and focusing on hating them when theres clearly outside factors to it and that minor as a adult now being upset by it !!!! I see how people will say them and kittydog didnt have that big og a age gap, but grooming isnt a think STRICTLY pedophiles so, its a manipulation tactic people can do at almost any age. I am not saying this to demonize kittydog cause yeah theres also the factor of WHY They were doing that behavior at the time, but just demonizing the other person more for explaining shit and not even saying they are were innocent when they were younger is so immature from a adult :///
@@TheActualEnlaa I would finish your video to see, but i find how you paint it too hyperbolic to be at all palatable, but that is my opinion, and we can always agree to disagree. I simply found it poor how the content was framed, but that's how of my opinion already that commentary done in live can come with a lot of mistakes, and just not great viewing experience. I do hope you have a great day though aside from my previous comment [possibly] being a little aggressive in the moment with my own experiences at play.
so much "birdie drama" is complicated. jack was kind of a hugely hypersexual from ages 12-16 on the internet. and he himself did a lot of rapey things later in age. he's most recent ex, he constantly harassed for sex over and over again. (if your curious for proof, m.ruclips.net/video/X9P5IgHFnGk/видео.html&pp=ygUXdGhlIHRydXRoIGJlaGluZCBiaXJkaWU%3D and i can personally share more. his drama with Kittydog is in a similar vein. not to say he was "rapey" as a kid but he did engage with Kittydog in a sexual manner "consensually". they were both obsessed with each other, same strain has followed his relationship with himeguts, racco, and other partners.
it seems that way, because you only ever hear about the more sensitive people online, especially in these communities. most well adjusted people don't spend that much time online, so you're not gonna see them, and therefore it'll seem like these younger generations are majorally hypersensitive. they're not, I can assure you.
@@Getsum420it’s because, as most things go, we’re understanding it more and more as years go on. It’s like how boomers say “no one was autistic in my day” and not realizing their crippling train addiction might be involved in that lol. It’s just because it finally has a proper label and research, as a TLDR. You and I were born in an era where the internet was just blooming for social reasons, and the most we were taught was “don’t give your info to strangers in the internet” and to not meet strangers. As the internet has evolved and our lives revolve more around it, more and more harmful things are evolving with it, and unfortunately child predation and grooming is part of that. It’s also gaining a lot more attention and awareness because of that. Predators are getting smarter and sneakier, and children are just as naive and immature as ever.
Screenshots..?👉👈🥺
I think Birdie’s trauma is valid, he clearly went through a LOT not just online but offline as well, but he should realize that a 2 year age gap isn’t that big. KD was being groomed during that time too.
to a young teenager/child, a gap bigger than 1 year can be uncomfortable. Maybe not in adulthood, but imagine (this is an example) a 7th grader and a 5th grader. During these years you will be a different maturity levels. Also, just because KD was also being groomed, sadly doesn't give it an excuse, but more of an idea why it happened. But also can't hate on KD too much because at that age you have no idea wtf is going on, and during my middle school years I made some comments I didn't realize were wrong too. Just thoughts I had from this comment.
Wtf does valid trauma mean like is there someone out there who checks your trauma and gives you either a thumbs up or no? Just say it happened or it didn't
@@myhax3351like what he went through was awful, horrific, and traumatizing, but I don’t think he wasn’t smart enough to realize a 2 year age gap wasn’t that bad
@@myhax3351 LMAOOOO that would be crazy tho if that was a thing😭
but the thing with drawing cheese pizza as 12 yo isn't actually worth cancel. as Birdie said, people should be worried about them, not attack them for that. 12 yo is a kid. kids don't understand many things. 12 yo shouldn't know what p00rn is at the first place. if they know and they are making their own (as a drawing or not) it's concerning and it's not their god damn fault? you shouldn't bully someone like this. bulling will not fix anything lol
Fr and birdie got completely harassed over that shit. "Cp" in this case refers to self insert characters they made for themselves...as a minor. The person who made this video worded it in such a way that it sounds like a crime. And the excusing of kittydog was rlly funny, since she got in trouble for the same damn thing.
I really dislike this genre of response video, where the person responding doesn’t have the full context of the situation and interjects every few seconds to commentate and make assumptions
when you're breaking down something as serious as grooming allegations, every word matters and needs to be looked at.
I want to talk briefly about a drama
one hour long drama video.
God Kumo is acting like an immature teen. Like does he think he sounds cool?
No,they were just weird kids being weird kids.COSCA is an actual thing but what they’ve done is pretty typical for kids in fandoms nowadays and does not match the abuse victims of COSCA have went through.Birdie could’ve said it was a weird thing they’ve done together,claiming it abuse feels like is minimizing trauma survivors have gone through.
Not to mention that Birdie got groomed by actual adults and has gone through some pretty serious stuff.All of this just feels like it’s to be petty and get back at another popular creator,not the first time this sort of thing has happened with Birdie.
I'm so glad that this video isn't sugarcoating his actions. I'm so tired to justify my genuine dislike for him. Also i think this wasn't brought up, but when birdie apologized to everyone they hurt they haven't apologized to himeguts as far as im aware. Which makes me think if he even wants to acknowledge that he also was pretty shitty after breaking it off with hime, and harassing them and being generally a terrible person.
I have no idea about everything that happened (because after a while I just..stopped caring-) but didn’t Hime block them on everything? I believe Birdie not apologizing to everyone for one reason or another
Isn't himeguts/ fontik a weirdo themselves tho???
When you're a child and your constantly surrounded by adults that make you believe things are okay, you need extensive therapy to learn what was okay and wasn't. Jack definitely went through traumatic experiences, but I def think the victim blaming on BOTH sides isn't valid whatsoever. People who were once groomed can also be groomers, but Kittydog and Jack will both need therapy and help for what happened to them. I do not doubt whatsoever that Jack was groomed, Kittydog was also groomed. But claiming that KD was also being groomed when this all happened isn't an excuse, they were both children, but maturing is realizing that the situation you were in back then is something you need to avoid heavily when your brain wasn't fully developed.
I honestly wish Jack and Kittydog both go to therapy (I believe Jack is in therapy now) and they heal from what happened.
i think that your criticisms were 100% on point. This "drama" is really just blown out of proportion and you're right that when both parties are minors/underage taking part in a community that is not appropriate for people under 18 to be in in the first place, it's really not "grooming" when a slightly older minor (14 is still young) is engaging in suggestive/sexual chat with another minor. It's inappropriate for sure but in this context, it's so clear that both minors in this situation were being groomed into thinking that it was appropriate. Kittydog didn't exhibit any malicious intent neither. And I also like how you highlighted that at no point did this Birdie person tell this Kittydog person to stop. Heck, even Kittydog asked if they should stop but Birdie didn't seem to mind. Again obviously Birdy was a kid but so was Kitty. Birdie may be looking back and regretting this and that's fine but so is Kitty, they both were kids in an inappropriate and misguided situation and it's not that Birdie has to forgive Kitty but don't f*cking call them a "gr**mer".
This is just an example of how the word is thrown around so much that a lot of the people in the art community don't even know what it means anymore. And I know you're closer to my age and I'm sure that you will be seeing more of these accusations pop up as the years go by. It's one of the consequences of having minors on the internet now and they'll find themselves getting into places they shouldn't be and get into situations like this.
Did Birdie ever stop to think that maybe KittyDog hasn't reached out to apologize yet because they were also groomed as a child and it takes TIME to realize what happened to you and for you to start to recover from it? "It's been 7 years" Okay, let's think about that for a moment though. Kittydog was 14, so 4 of those 7 years would have been her still being a minor and then just turning into an adult so she's 21 now. It takes some people until their late 20s to earlier 30s to realize what happened to them and then time still to come to terms with that and heal. Yes, it's been 7 years but given how young Kittydog was when she was being groomed I honestly doubt those 7 years where she was still mostly a minor, is enough time for her to reflect and realized how fucked up everything was. Birdie is also not considering that it's very possible that Kittydog was still being groomed for years after she was 14. Which would, you know, make it even harder for Kittydog to be able to realize how bad everything was and heal from it to the point where she could turn around and apologize to the others she hurt with the shit that she thought was normal.
Birdie is getting mad at a victim of grooming for being a victim of grooming and lashing out because she didn't help Birdie when Birdie was getting shit, which she doesn't have to do. Kittydog was 14, she probably didn't know how to help or was scared that she might get attacked too if she did. Is it shitty? Yeah, but Birdie being mad that Kittydog didn't help is no excuse for what Birdie is doing to Kittydog now.
They're both victims and instead of lashing out at one another, it would be more productive to try to change the animation meme community to try to prevent future victims. I do think that it was a problem that when a 12-year-old was drawing cp no one stepped in to see WHY the 12-year-old was doing that and instead just gave Birdie shit for it but it's zero reason to lash out at Kittydog for it
The fact that Kittydog DID try to reach out well before Birdie's video and yet Birdie ignored that really just seals it for me that the only reason that Birdie claimed that Kittydog groomed him was just to lash out at someone he was mad at still. Birdie doesn't have to accept the apology but he also doesn't get to turn around and claim that an apology was never given
I don't think it was grooming becuese kittydog have no idea what she was doing it was wrong and gross, but I think it wad COCSA.
TW: COCSA
When i was a kid (I think I wad 6 or 7, idk) a random kid from my class hug me, touch my butt, and tried to kiss me and it was gross. We where both disabled so he had no idea wtf he was doing was wrong (neither I do becuese I was a kid and I was confuse). HOREWER, just becuese we where both kids and disabled does not mean it was normal, in fact IT WAS COCSA. Even he did not mean to harm me, that does not mean what he did it was ok, but I think its the parents and teachers fault for doing nothing.
was it necessary to missgender jack throughout the entire video?
She didn’t know until she was told, I didn’t know until I was told either.
Eh, grooming is worse than misgendering.
@@FangAlt you missed the whole point bud
@@bbibi68 well sorry for not having time to watch the whole god damn video mr rocket scientist
@FangAlt then don't comment random bullshit
7:16 "lets not get into the linguistics of brooming" - Enlaa 2024
AHHHHH shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up!
🧹🧹🧹🧹🧹🧹
Screenshots- Enlaa 2024
So glad that doodle got some mileage :3c
Of course, it's adorable!
Immediately cant even finish this video when it just feels like a adult acting righteous people got mad and tried to cancel a MINOR for drawing NSFW of minors without explaining to said minor why it was bad, and focusing on hating them when theres clearly outside factors to it and that minor as a adult now being upset by it !!!! I see how people will say them and kittydog didnt have that big og a age gap, but grooming isnt a think STRICTLY pedophiles so, its a manipulation tactic people can do at almost any age. I am not saying this to demonize kittydog cause yeah theres also the factor of WHY They were doing that behavior at the time, but just demonizing the other person more for explaining shit and not even saying they are were innocent when they were younger is so immature from a adult :///
Kittydog didn't groom Birdie lol
And if you actually watched the video, I actually say a lot of the things you just said here
@@TheActualEnlaa I would finish your video to see, but i find how you paint it too hyperbolic to be at all palatable, but that is my opinion, and we can always agree to disagree. I simply found it poor how the content was framed, but that's how of my opinion already that commentary done in live can come with a lot of mistakes, and just not great viewing experience. I do hope you have a great day though aside from my previous comment [possibly] being a little aggressive in the moment with my own experiences at play.
Grooming truly is a football phrase.
birdie is a guy btw
okay nvm you did correct the misgendering my bad
No birdie literally does nothing to transition
pooner*
@@sandytheskeleton well
@@myhax3351you don’t need to transition to be considered trans. A lot of trans folk cannot afford the medication or the surgeries.
Based.
Oh! well that's a theory!! (eugh)
this video makes logical sense lol ??
😘😘im in love with Emma a
so much "birdie drama" is complicated. jack was kind of a hugely hypersexual from ages 12-16 on the internet. and he himself did a lot of rapey things later in age. he's most recent ex, he constantly harassed for sex over and over again. (if your curious for proof, m.ruclips.net/video/X9P5IgHFnGk/видео.html&pp=ygUXdGhlIHRydXRoIGJlaGluZCBiaXJkaWU%3D and i can personally share more.
his drama with Kittydog is in a similar vein. not to say he was "rapey" as a kid but he did engage with Kittydog in a sexual manner "consensually". they were both obsessed with each other, same strain has followed his relationship with himeguts, racco, and other partners.
also unfortunate that only the kittydog drama is Relevant. Because she's a popular creator. Le sigh. Such is life
How do you even find these communities??
If everything is grooming, then nothing is grooming. I don’t understand how everyone born in the year 2000 and up grew up so pathetic and weak.
it seems that way, because you only ever hear about the more sensitive people online, especially in these communities.
most well adjusted people don't spend that much time online, so you're not gonna see them, and therefore it'll seem like these younger generations are majorally hypersensitive. they're not, I can assure you.
- says somebody born in 1999 on december 31, 11:59 pm
@@ashleyproducctions8780 1983 but ok 👍
@@Getsum420it’s because, as most things go, we’re understanding it more and more as years go on. It’s like how boomers say “no one was autistic in my day” and not realizing their crippling train addiction might be involved in that lol. It’s just because it finally has a proper label and research, as a TLDR.
You and I were born in an era where the internet was just blooming for social reasons, and the most we were taught was “don’t give your info to strangers in the internet” and to not meet strangers.
As the internet has evolved and our lives revolve more around it, more and more harmful things are evolving with it, and unfortunately child predation and grooming is part of that. It’s also gaining a lot more attention and awareness because of that. Predators are getting smarter and sneakier, and children are just as naive and immature as ever.
@@Getsum420 too old to be worrying abt ppl 20-30 years younger than you bud. literally 2 yrs younger than my mum. lmaao