Jake was a refreshing perspective for a Trek character once he grew up. It was nice to see a civilian perspective instead of a Starfleet one. Usually they're just extras in the background.
Jake's an intreasting character, it would have been so easy for him to be "Wesley Crusher 2.0" son of a starfleet officer, buddies with the senior staff whom becomes an officer himself. but they avoided that, and made him a reporter. even that could have gone bad as he could have been a blatent case of self insert (the show writers where writers, he was a writer, and he certainly provided their prespective in an in character form at times) but he didn't. meanwhile they make the kid who becomes a enw officer Nog, who is talented sure but isn't perfect, he has his issues he gets injured... by and large.. brilliant writing!
Hmpf...I only remember Jake as a whiny character, who took unacceptable risks at times (he compromised his dad in the worst way possible when staying on DS9 during the Dominion War (seriously, Dukat would have probably used him as a hostage if Weyoun hadn't stopped that, with Odo and Kira supporting that decision, not to mention his status as the son of the Emissary!), just so he could further his career as a reporter! Damned, you dumbass get your ass on the Defiant on the double Mr.!) and wasn't half the man Nog (who was a low-life and a thief at the start of the show! Nog really got his act together, but Jake? Jake only got worse IMHO!)
Refreshing =/= perfect, fwiw. I like that he was just a regular guy. That's what made him different. He didn't have a bunch of training, or high and mighty ideals that he could break as long as he could justify it. He just wanted to pursue his passion and find his place in the world/galaxy. That's admirable. He's the civilian just trying to be a decent human. You know, the very thing Starfleet is there to protect. I don't hold him to the standards of a uniform he doesn't wear. Maybe you shouldn't either.
@@dreamingflurry2729 Ohh I agree his decision to stay on the station was nuts. heck forget hostage, he's lucky he wasn't promptly shot as a spy. I mean he's Sisko's son, as a journalist he's going to be asking questions etc.
Jake is incorrect in his assessment of himself. He is not a coward. He is an untrained civilian. There are soldiers who have trained for years who, when encountering for reals “you might die today” combat taking every step available to them to be acclimated to the chaos of combat, freeze up. Many soldiers in their first encounter of “this is not a game.” Never fire a shot, staying behind cover. It is only after taking that first taste and surviving it do they become more comfortable in what they must do to ensure the survival of themselves and that group. Or, it takes an experienced soldier slapping them on the helmet and telling them to actually do something. A civilian has almost no chance of acting coherently in combat. A persons first and last instinct is to run away from danger. This stuff is scary to people who are purposefully trained to face it.
Not much different to any other animal in that regard generally animals will stand and fight as their first instinct is usually when they are backed into a corner. Well that or when defending young that can't run away though even that tends to be more common in species with young that mature slowly as without that instinct such species especially ours wouldn't have lasted long as our young are near incapable of running from or fighting anything for years.
I always gave Jake credit because in the end everyone was calling him a hero, talking about how he stayed behind to protect the retreating patients and others, then Jake wrote the article and admit he just panicked. That takes some guts. There are many kinds of courage and I think admitting this failing so publicly showed some.
The Discovery writers should watch this episode... this is how you write characters and a great story. Brilliant episode and since I am similar age as Jake was... I remember watching it then as a teenager. perfection and chills.
The klingons were likely keeping raids going like this to look like they were winning while the negotiations were ongoing. Gowron is a Klingon of pride and has already looked week when he was puppeted by a changeling. Either that or another grumpy warlord was wanting to boost his presence
A great episode in the show. I did like how Jake didn't become a member of Star Fleet like his father. He had no greater duty to uphold, but was just a normal person in a hellish situation.
I've never gotten the impression that Jake collapsed the cave on purpose. It seemed to me that he was firing a lot just trying to scare the Klingons away and firing upwards because that was the only direction afforded to him by hiding where he was.
I can see all sides of this situation HOWEVER it's highly unlikely that JAKE is a coward he was scared JAKE ISN'T a STARFLEET OFFICER he has only seen combat situations on DS9 so the realism of WAR DIDN'T affect him directly
The Klingons probably landed the troops left the ground forces tasked with taking the planet, then their ships went to engage the Starfleet ships that were coming to rescue. Strategically this would allow the attacking Ground Forces to deal with whatever Starfleet had on the planets. This would also allow the Klingon Fleet to deal with a Starfleet Ground Forces while they were still aboard their transport vessels.
Note, at this point in the timeline, Jake is roughly 18 years old. Dropped onto a battlefield and pressed into service and confused. Like it or not his behavior was completely to be expected.
When I was a kid and first saw this episode I didn't understand it so I didn't like it but as an adult, I find this episode to be not only the best Jake episode but one of the better ones of that season. I really see Jake's character being very authentic in the way he handled these kinds of unfamiliar and dangerous situations. I think he grew immensely after having to see what the galaxy at war looks like. Really love this episode!!
*Lore:* "So why aren't Klingon ships orbiting the planet? The runabout is able to land on the planet unopposed [...]" "The USS Farragut [...] is caught off guard and destroyed." *Me:* there is no honour in destroying a runabout, but there is one in fighting its passengers in close combat on the ground. The Farragut is destroyed because the planet's orbit *is* defended. Ever heard of _cloaking devices?_ 😀
It's possible the space is contested by both sides, and whilst ships from both sides can maintain orbit long enough to land without being hit, they can't just loiter there before they get taken out by someone
This episode wasn't one of my favorites, but I didn't hate it. It reminded me a lot of several specific MASH episodes. And maybe it's because I've seen a lot of MASH that this episode didn't really have that big of an impact on me. I think I agree with all your points on Jake. It's easy to call him cowardly, but how many of us, who've never been trained in the arts and horrors of war, would do differently?
It did have a very M.A.S.H. feel to it didn't. Did you know the black doctor[I forgot his name] from tos almost had a trek show that was medical 🚢 Pasteur, basically a cross between a navy med ship and MASH type of show?
It is possible that the Klingon ship's that was guarding the planet could have joined the Farragut ambush that lead to it's Destruction. That so happen9to allowed the Runabout slipping down to the planet.
I liked this episode for it's depiction of ground combat in Star Trek. It's easy to get caught up in the space laser ballet of the ships and forget that for when ships are destroyed, people are burned or frozen or suffocated, and when planets are lost whole populations are purged.
You kinda miss the fact that Klingon ships can land on the planet surface. Depending on which ships they sent, it could be several dozen birds of prey landing and sending out their crews to take the planet. Klingon tactics don't lend to orbital bombardment, but rather face to face melee combat. Holding orbital control isn't in their wheelhouse, either. It is not kind to their fellow warriors to leave some out in space to protect against orbital control and leave them out of combat.
@Amber Hoke I dunno about that. Showing that a force is capable of annihilating a planet, or a nation or city for that matter, is a good motivator for surrender. It worked against Japan in 1945, and saved millions in solder and civilian deaths. Those two atomic bombs killed many, but they saved a great many more, likely about 20 times as many, in avoiding a full on invasion. While I mention that Klilngons don't generally like such tactics, I didn't say different tactics aren't better for different circumstances.
Sisko isn't disciplined - publicly, at least - for political reasons: while he may be uncomfortable with it, he is a religious figure to a planet that sits at the entrance to a stable wormhole. That said, Sisko is Terran -- the US Army didn't discipline George Patton when he sent a task force to liberate a POW camp that held his son, a task force that was destroyed....Consistency -- it used to be a thing in Trek.
I liked that they did this to Jake as it plays into his decision to stay on DS9 during the Dominion occupation instead of leaving to safety. Granted he had clout as Sisko's son but it was still a ballsy move.
I loved this episode. It tore away the veneer of idealism and pacifism, and showed the grim realities of the universe. It was good to see an amazing support character grow under such harsh conditions.
I was about the age Jake was in this episode and in the process on enlisting (never did medical issue), I recall this episode hitting me hard. It made me be honest with myself that while I was almost 100% sure I wouldn't run away from RL Bashir, but could never really know until shells were dropping
Jake the “advanced human” who is clearly anything but. It shows humanity as a whole was just as flawed as now a days. Even Jonathan Archers era was more “advanced” as a whole. So the peace they had before the Borg was more harmful than helpful.
This is one of my favorites in DS-9 as it brings home what pointless death looks like. Seeing death from any standpoint is hard and the writers of this episode had to have experienced it to relay it so well. When Jake gets hit in the face by that soldier it spoke volumes about the self-preservation mentality that takes people over when in desperate situations. It's one of the biggest dangers search and rescue are trained for, being attacked by the very people you're trying to help. War and disasters you have more anger to deal with than fear and the characters carry this off well.
Pro tip. The archanis sector isn't even in the same quadrant as Bajoran/Cardassian space. It's in the Beta quadrant. That's why people like myself said that Klingons didn't take The archanis sector, most of the fighting happens extremely far from DS9, many months journey. Remember the Klingons kept all of the territory they gained from the blitz into Cardassian space. The fighting that happened around DS9 space, it was the garrison forces in Cardassian space causing trouble. It was not the focus of the war. Also remember the Klingons mined the Bajoran system. Why mine it if they planned to invade? Or for that matter even had adequate forces to invade? They didn't. They tried that once and LOST! The Klingons withdrew much of their forces from Cardassian space. This is why the Klingons were forced out by just the first Dominon fleet, which couldn't have been more than a couple hundred ships. Final point. The Federation/Klingon war over The archanis sector was the Dominions long game. The dispute was over 100 years prior and suddenly gets dragged up again. The Founders wanted the Federation/Klingons out of position fighting a pointless broader war hundreds maybe thousands of light years from The wormhole. That's exactly what happened, and is also why the Feds performed so badly in the first few months of open Dominon war. The bulk of the fleet was no where near Bajor.
If I had to do the writer's job, I'd say that there were too few Klingon ships to quickly respond to the Roundabout if they detected it, or too few Klingon shops to cover the planet in general. I likes this character development of Jake in this episode, most of the perspective of war we see is from the view screen of a starship vs being up close and personal staring down your enemy. It's not often you get to see how an evolved human would really react in the nitty gritty where enemy fire is close enough that a near hit can still burn, but the option to fight or flight is individually availabe as you have no choice in space. He was a hero here having done what needed to be done, and it was pure luck he succeeded AND survived. Had he failed and died, failed and survived, or succeeded and died, I think Jake would still have been given and earned that distinction.
@Lore, I agree, this and "The Visitor" are 2 of Jake Sisko's best episodes for DS9. He's the bridge between us and the humans of Star Trek, better in some ways, but in others very human in his responses. "Nor the Battle too Strong" is a gem of DS9, showing off what makes it unique in Star Trek pantheon and demonstrating why it belongs among Star Trek shows, it's adventure and social commentary done to its zenith with a military conflict. If Babylon 5's "GROPOS" demonstrate the soldier reality in war, Deep Space Nine's "Nor the Battle too Strong" demonstrates the dire realities of warfare on civilian. These two series were mirror images of each other, but they sometimes fill the gaps that the other left behind. I think GROPOS and this episode actually came out at around the same time as I recall. Also, since you mentioned this in your title as Klingon/Dominion war view by Civilians, I think the writer's missed an opportunity in DS9 to show an occupied Federation planet. We know who the Betazoid were from TNG, hell Laxanna Troi could have been given an "inglorious bastard" treatment (The novels gave her a lot of character development during the Dominion War). The Federation's Civilian population has never been under occupation and being enslaved by enemy soldiers would be quite a story.
Well , .... When Jake ran ' he left Basheer also , Hell ' he left Julian For Dead " he got lucky is all , firing That Phaser from up under that table an all !
I always thought it kinda neat he was a reporter even though you never see anyone in the series ever watching or reading the news. What would a Federation news show be like?
everyone talks tough when their safe. Put them in a warzone with no training or weapons and their crying babies. A few will step up and at least try to do their job, but most will run and hide. Jake is no coward. He was not prepared mentally for the hell he got into. Even the some of the most well trained soldiers can break when they first enter combat.
I always thought this was the best episode DS9 ever produced. I remember when it was running fans bitching about how Gene never had a running war. This story exemplifies the types of stories you can only get in a war zone. I think Gene would have been proud.
Similar to what Pez said in another comment, if I hadn't grown up watching MASH, I'd probably think a bit better of this episode. It wasn't bad, but MASH did it better, several times. It didn't necessarily help that I wasn't the biggest fan of Jake, either.
I loved this episode, and your nitpicks are valid, especially the one about Sisko taking the Defiant. My argument is that they really didnt need the Defiant to protect the station from an entire fleet of Klingons the first go round, and Sisko is a master of bullshitting Starfleet to seeing his way. He probably yadda yaddad some Admiral that having the most powerful ship in the fleet show up at Adjilon Prime would deter the Klingons. As for the orbital ships, it owuld take 3-4 Klingon battleships to take out a Nebula class cruiser, so if they sent a fleet and the Farragaut destroyed 3 before they killed her, that last ship can only protect so much space before reinforcemnts can arrive, and they would have to strategically place troops where they can do the most damage. We see a couple orbital attacks in the battle, and one even destroyed the Runabout. Sure, they could have explained that in dialouge, but remember we are seeing the whole show from Jake and Bashi's point of view, Neither had the experience or forsight to know whats happening outside that cave. The chaos was supposed ot eb unsettling, and it was supposed to make you think about the bad decisions they made.
Myt favorite part was at the end, when Ben is reading Jakes story, and he straight up tells him that fear is perfectly normal, and every battle he is in, this is EXACTLY how he feels. It makes Jake and th eaudience feel better
I remember being a new Marine when this first aired. When Jake abandoned Bashir, I was disgusted. Then when the soldier called out his cowardice I couldn't finish this episode. I still to this day haven't. This episode changed the way I looked at Jake and the Marine in me couldn't stand him for his cowardice. I did appreciate the writing of future episodes though in from that point he had a reverence for Starfleet and the personnel on the station. I should find this episode & watch it all the way through now.
Would you expect a citizen of your country, a teenager with no military training no less.. to be as 'brave' as you? If you can, watch it till the end and see what Jake admits.. it may change your perspective on him
I thought it was stated that they parked a fair bit away so that the klingons wouldn't know where the medical facility was... Of course that may have just been how I justified it and made it headcannon
I would add it’s hard to know for certain where the Klingon ships are since we don’t know the composition of the fleet involved it may not have been a large one
I am surprised the Klingons attacked a medical facility. While I think Martok was a changling at this point, I doubt even he could order such an attack - most Klingons would see it as dishonourable. Looking forward to your thoughts on that.
Sisko wanting to send the Defiant to save his son. Is a bit like that mission that General George S Patton authorized to save his son in law from a German POW camp.
He wasnt wrong though. Defiant is ridiculously superpowered up compared to most ships. An one on one really only the strongest Klingon ships could probably take or outgun Defiant in this point of the story
As a physicist, I can not stress enough how big space is. It would be unsurprising if the runabout was able to slip past even ten birds-of-prey if they were patrolling even the immediate area of the planet, let alone a planet. Plus, a runabout is tiny and could easily be misidentified. That my best reasoning.
All my life, the elders of my family...of which there are less and less of as time goes one...have told me that the difference between having fear and being a coward is how we react. A hero is afraid....had fear....anxieties, but the action in the face of that fear or inspite of it is what makes a hero. You are a hero based on the aftermath...because your action is heroic...because death was faced and fear was overcome. A coward runs from their fears and damns other because of it. They rush away because they let the fear overcome them. HOWEVER,Jake was not a coward when he left Bashir, he was inexperienced. Sometimes when people have "had it too good, too long" they begin to forget they are merely humans. As Sisko said... " its easy to be a saint in paradise." Jake had to be challenged...had to learn to manage his feats and act. Oh how I fear for much of the Western World who have had generations of peace should war break out. It's easy to hold liberal views in times of plenty, in times of stability. When that is taken from us or we fight an enemy not so comfortable with their status quo, many will not even understand why they are perishing. You cannot reason with the unreasonable...if an aggressor is seeking your resources or wants to fight a war od attrition negotiations may mean you just die talking. Jake literally had to get dirty to find his footing. For him to be anxious over it is expected for Paradise was LOST.
in my opinion the reason they didn't think of all the different options for the runabout is because Bashir is a doctor and Jake is a teen neither have extensive tactical knowledge and Bashir, being the impetuous doctor who wants to get into the "fight" in his doctor way. Had Dax or Obrien been there with them they would have likely made more of a tactical decision while Bashir was treating the patients. Edit: It would have also defeated the whole point of the episode.
Sending in a shuttle would be like sending a single armored vehicle to take a base. Way more likely to be successful sending a small group of people to knock out the power then send in your larger better armed force to occupy.
In commenting on this video I say only this: not one of us really can know how we will react in a real life or death situation until we are thrust into one, if we ever are. That’s just my opinion your results may vary
I noticed the inconsistency in klingon blood as well. It is established in one of the kirk movies, i cant remember the name of the movie at the moment, that klingon blood is pink. How ever for some reason it is always red in ds9. Maybe the same continuity humper that was responsible for voyager was in charge of ds9's klingons?
Jake was not a coward in this episode (though I haven't seen it, so keep that in mind while reading this). He was an untrained civilian who suddenly found himself in a battlefield and was forced to confront the harsh realities of war. Were I in his position, I am not sure I would be brave enough to return to the hospital, so I admire his character for that.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he on the _Saratoga_ with his parents during Wolf 359? If I'm right, then he's already been messed in the head with the trauma of the battle and the loss of his mother. Being in this new situation would've more likely than not caused a form of PTSD. The fact he was verbally slapped in the face and faced the situation would make his character growth more pronounced, that is if he was on the _Saratoga_ .
@@Mostlyharmless1985 Had to look up Memory Alpha: Jake was on the _Saratoga_ during Wolf 359, aged 11. Old enough to remember, but considering how he acted on the station I think he was helped by mental health professionals. However, he never got to the same level of calamity and near death as he did at Wolf 359 until on the planet in this episode. I could understand explaining his actions as flashing back to that day, only this time he had someone to call him out on it and the added years of maturity (scant few they were) to do what he couldn't then: Stand Up & Be Counted.
DS9: Self-realised coward Jake saves medics and patients by caving in entrance with random phaser shots. Claimed hero. Red Dwarf: Always-protrayed coward Rimmer saves dead Lister, Cat & Kryten by shooting Time Drive with a point-blank Bazookiod shot before Future Selves could; causing a Time Reversal saving them all. Technical hero. The difference being that Rimmer is not credited for his actions, as even himself realised what Kryten was about to suggest and did it on his accord. Maybe it was due to him knowing if he doesn't they'd all be dead or lost to time, so why not do it himself? (ignoring the fact he's already dead and is a Hologram; his holographic self would be dead due to his light-bee being destroyed in the explosion or no power source to keep it charged). Jake just fired out of fear and accidentally brought the house down.
Sisko had a few heavy advantages in his favor for taking the defiant on such a personal mission. First, he's a captain and has had to suffer through sacrifices many can't imagine and are therefore granted a certain leeway. Second, nobody wants his job lol. Protecting a vulnerable station at the mouth of a wormhole when at any moment a hostile enemy force with unlimited resources can swarm out of that spacial orifice and obliterate you is not an ideal post. Third and final, he's the emissary. A whole planet of people in charge of the most strategic location in the quadrant, that you want to recruit into the federation will not be too happy with his sanction. I'm not saying that Sisko is irreplaceable, it would have to be over something a lot bigger than rescuing his son.
I've been under siege before (a very credible school shooting threat which made 90% of 4,000 students stay home) and I can tell you, Sun Tzu is right when he says if you give a fighting man a chance for escape he'll take it. The day was pretty tense and we were all cracking jokes, even me the new guy. So I can understand the kid's reaction, if you've never been in the situation you wouldn't know what to do.
Even if it's not the greatest episode, it really does show what DS9 did best. War is not glorious and antiseptic - it's bloody and horrific. Also, If you're hoping to do videos on all the Trek movies we know and love... are you not intending to cover the other 10 movies!?
This is basically the Scifi version of the old classic famous story "the Red Badge of Courage" since like that Civil War era Union Soldier its Jake's perspective and everyone thinks BOTH of them did something really heroic when they did something cowardly or would seem so at least to them, an neither really was ever found out. BUT the. Basically seem to undo that by ACTUALLY doing something totally heroic that kinda expunges said disgrace. One my more favorite miseries episodes. An it's not that he ran as much as he can the way he did... youd be surprised what you can and will do and how long you can keep it up along with at a prolonged intensity when your in a similar situation that triggers it.
Klingon ships may have been orbiting at a different position around the planet, even with unobstructed line of sight, the distance would make visual detection of another ship nearly impossible... also, Klingons have cloaking devices
I know "scared" and "cowardly" are synonyms but I think they're completely different in this context. The officer who shot himself in the foot was cowardly because he willfully abandoned his comrades and his duty to save himself. Jake's actions, while similar, are also completely different because he understood his mistake and even attempted to make recompense. That's why I understand and even empathize with Jake. I know you often rant about how they let families onto military ships but I think it's a necessary device in order to bridge the audience with the world of the series. Not all of us are soldiers or scientists or doctors or commanders. We're just civilians, common people, so to have someone like Jake (or even Wesley for that matter) there makes the series a bit more palpable.
I chuckle because you mention that Arcanis was taken but it is mentioned in that same conversation Golandan IV was defended and the Klingons had to retreat. This is why I say Starfleet suffered losses but was still putting it to the Klingons. It was not a one way slaughter. I will say that I don't understand how Starfleet would send one ship to deal with an invasion of a colony. I can't see how the lone Farragut would have survived.
The Farragut...??? As Funny as it would be to have the Klingons bag another Galaxy Class, I like to picture Star Fleet Sending a Nebula... Ensign - "Sir! A Planet is being wrecked by the Klingons!!!" Admiralty - "Hmmm... Klingons... Send a Single Support/Engineering Ship to take them on...!!!"
"Courage is being scared to death... and saddling up anyway." ~ John Wayne. As a former Navy Hospital Corpsman, I can tell you, NO hero thinks they are one. Jake had never been exposed to combat. He acted as you would expect a young, untrained, (and even some who are trained) young man would react. His actions are appropriate for the circumstances. What counts is that he came back. Also, as a former Corpsman, I can tell you that in a combat situation, having to stop and treat a self inflicted wound while people, his friends and colleagues, are dying, stops the medical personnel from trying to prevent that from happening. This is something we as Corpsmen believe. The Rules of War: Rule #1 - Young men die. Rule #2 - Even "Doc" can't change rule #1 Rule #3 - For his Brothers, "Doc" will go through the Gates of Hell, and give his life to change Rules #1 and #2 All in all, I found it was pretty spot on.
I always took it that the attacking Klingon were of a house that wasn't very loyal to Gowron. They still wanted to fight and probably concocted some 'honorable reason why their attack was justified despite the cease fire. That would explain the haphazard attack strategy and lack of maintaining space dominance. They came in, brushed off space defense to land troops then skedaddled before anyone in the KDF noticed what the ships were up to. They might have figured that if they took the planet then after the official war they can claim it or at least get reparations for its return. Or political currency for that matter.
Jake was great for showing exactly how useless a journo is in any given situation that doesn't involve trading gossip over tea in some sidewalk café. That said, I really don't fault him for running away from the firefight he was in; he's a civilian facing terrifying adversaries. Granted, I think he's also a perfect way to describe Federation citizens (of Earth, especially). I think the Cracked After Hours channel that perfectly hit the nail on the head on the ordinary citizens of the Federation in that they are soft, sated and constantly looking for the Something New. Whether its a cool new Alien of the week brought to you by the few intrepid types who would actually join Starfleet or a new original holonovel to relieve the boredom of living in paradise, the soft and pampered common citizens of the federation will take even the rookie writings of a fledgling "reporter" because they're just that bored.
I always thought Bashir was actually the changeling in this episode cause of the later reveal. Could be wrong, cause I don't remember if this one was set before his kidnapping was supposed to happen
Lore here could be a possible reason for no Klingon ships using real life military reasons during the battle of Saipan the US navy left the island after the Marines landed to intercept any ships coming to reinforce the island or and troops transports a similar thing could have happend here.
I think of it this way: I don't judge Jake at all. He's a civilian, been protected most of his life. If he was a soldier, yes, then you can judge his actions.
There's a reason the USSR was able to defeat Germany despite German tanks being far superior, and it's numbers, simply send more bodies at the enemy than they have bullets and you win
@@edgardox.feliciano3127 Also Germany was laughably unprepared for sub-zero warfare or that Stalin had moved most of the USSR's productions over the Ural mountains away from the European theater.
As a Former soldier, That coward is a coward. Shooting yourself in the leg to get out of fighting is the worse. Because you took yourself out of the fight you rob a squad of a team, a platoon of a squad, a company of a platoon and so on and so forth. I can see Civilians doing that, I cant understand soldiers doing that.
'Nor the Battle to *the* Strong'. I thought it was just a glitch last episode, but then it was repeated here. :-) Unless 'to' was 'too', it wouldn't make a lot of sense without the 'the'.
Jake was a refreshing perspective for a Trek character once he grew up. It was nice to see a civilian perspective instead of a Starfleet one. Usually they're just extras in the background.
Jake's an intreasting character, it would have been so easy for him to be "Wesley Crusher 2.0" son of a starfleet officer, buddies with the senior staff whom becomes an officer himself. but they avoided that, and made him a reporter. even that could have gone bad as he could have been a blatent case of self insert (the show writers where writers, he was a writer, and he certainly provided their prespective in an in character form at times) but he didn't. meanwhile they make the kid who becomes a enw officer Nog, who is talented sure but isn't perfect, he has his issues he gets injured... by and large.. brilliant writing!
Hmpf...I only remember Jake as a whiny character, who took unacceptable risks at times (he compromised his dad in the worst way possible when staying on DS9 during the Dominion War (seriously, Dukat would have probably used him as a hostage if Weyoun hadn't stopped that, with Odo and Kira supporting that decision, not to mention his status as the son of the Emissary!), just so he could further his career as a reporter! Damned, you dumbass get your ass on the Defiant on the double Mr.!) and wasn't half the man Nog (who was a low-life and a thief at the start of the show! Nog really got his act together, but Jake? Jake only got worse IMHO!)
It's ironic because I'm training as a journalist. Hope the Klingons arn't my first gig.
Refreshing =/= perfect, fwiw. I like that he was just a regular guy. That's what made him different. He didn't have a bunch of training, or high and mighty ideals that he could break as long as he could justify it.
He just wanted to pursue his passion and find his place in the world/galaxy. That's admirable.
He's the civilian just trying to be a decent human. You know, the very thing Starfleet is there to protect. I don't hold him to the standards of a uniform he doesn't wear.
Maybe you shouldn't either.
@@dreamingflurry2729 Ohh I agree his decision to stay on the station was nuts. heck forget hostage, he's lucky he wasn't promptly shot as a spy. I mean he's Sisko's son, as a journalist he's going to be asking questions etc.
Jake is incorrect in his assessment of himself. He is not a coward. He is an untrained civilian.
There are soldiers who have trained for years who, when encountering for reals “you might die today” combat taking every step available to them to be acclimated to the chaos of combat, freeze up. Many soldiers in their first encounter of “this is not a game.” Never fire a shot, staying behind cover. It is only after taking that first taste and surviving it do they become more comfortable in what they must do to ensure the survival of themselves and that group. Or, it takes an experienced soldier slapping them on the helmet and telling them to actually do something.
A civilian has almost no chance of acting coherently in combat. A persons first and last instinct is to run away from danger. This stuff is scary to people who are purposefully trained to face it.
Not much different to any other animal in that regard generally animals will stand and fight as their first instinct is usually when they are backed into a corner. Well that or when defending young that can't run away though even that tends to be more common in species with young that mature slowly as without that instinct such species especially ours wouldn't have lasted long as our young are near incapable of running from or fighting anything for years.
I always gave Jake credit because in the end everyone was calling him a hero, talking about how he stayed behind to protect the retreating patients and others, then Jake wrote the article and admit he just panicked. That takes some guts. There are many kinds of courage and I think admitting this failing so publicly showed some.
The Discovery writers should watch this episode... this is how you write characters and a great story. Brilliant episode and since I am similar age as Jake was... I remember watching it then as a teenager. perfection and chills.
The klingons were likely keeping raids going like this to look like they were winning while the negotiations were ongoing. Gowron is a Klingon of pride and has already looked week when he was puppeted by a changeling.
Either that or another grumpy warlord was wanting to boost his presence
agreed. stopping combat during peace negotiations is something we can think of but I suspect there isn't a klingon word for arminstance
I believe it’s hard to stop the Klingon military unless they take horrid losses or a new enemy presents itself
A great episode in the show. I did like how Jake didn't become a member of Star Fleet like his father. He had no greater duty to uphold, but was just a normal person in a hellish situation.
I've never gotten the impression that Jake collapsed the cave on purpose. It seemed to me that he was firing a lot just trying to scare the Klingons away and firing upwards because that was the only direction afforded to him by hiding where he was.
I can see all sides of this situation
HOWEVER
it's highly unlikely that
JAKE is a coward
he was scared
JAKE ISN'T a STARFLEET OFFICER
he has only seen combat situations
on DS9
so the realism of
WAR
DIDN'T affect him directly
The Klingons probably landed the troops left the ground forces tasked with taking the planet, then their ships went to engage the Starfleet ships that were coming to rescue. Strategically this would allow the attacking Ground Forces to deal with whatever Starfleet had on the planets. This would also allow the Klingon Fleet to deal with a Starfleet Ground Forces while they were still aboard their transport vessels.
This episode and the Siege of AR-557 are the most REAL stories in Trek.
Note, at this point in the timeline, Jake is roughly 18 years old. Dropped onto a battlefield and pressed into service and confused.
Like it or not his behavior was completely to be expected.
When I was a kid and first saw this episode I didn't understand it so I didn't like it but as an adult, I find this episode to be not only the best Jake episode but one of the better ones of that season. I really see Jake's character being very authentic in the way he handled these kinds of unfamiliar and dangerous situations. I think he grew immensely after having to see what the galaxy at war looks like. Really love this episode!!
*Lore:* "So why aren't Klingon ships orbiting the planet? The runabout is able to land on the planet unopposed [...]"
"The USS Farragut [...] is caught off guard and destroyed."
*Me:* there is no honour in destroying a runabout, but there is one in fighting its passengers in close combat on the ground. The Farragut is destroyed because the planet's orbit *is* defended. Ever heard of _cloaking devices?_ 😀
It's possible the space is contested by both sides, and whilst ships from both sides can maintain orbit long enough to land without being hit, they can't just loiter there before they get taken out by someone
Thank you for doing this episode. Your breakdown was well done, insightful and respectful
This episode wasn't one of my favorites, but I didn't hate it. It reminded me a lot of several specific MASH episodes. And maybe it's because I've seen a lot of MASH that this episode didn't really have that big of an impact on me.
I think I agree with all your points on Jake. It's easy to call him cowardly, but how many of us, who've never been trained in the arts and horrors of war, would do differently?
I've been drilled since I could stand and I still acted like him.
Hell a war veteran coworker of mine took off the first moment he could.
Even those who are. I love the security guard who shot himself and tge similarities between him and jake
It did have a very M.A.S.H. feel to it didn't. Did you know the black doctor[I forgot his name] from tos almost had a trek show that was medical 🚢 Pasteur, basically a cross between a navy med ship and MASH type of show?
It is possible that the Klingon ship's that was guarding the planet could have joined the Farragut ambush that lead to it's Destruction.
That so happen9to allowed the Runabout slipping down to the planet.
Definitely one of my favorite DS9 episodes... great commentary
I liked this episode for it's depiction of ground combat in Star Trek. It's easy to get caught up in the space laser ballet of the ships and forget that for when ships are destroyed, people are burned or frozen or suffocated, and when planets are lost whole populations are purged.
You kinda miss the fact that Klingon ships can land on the planet surface. Depending on which ships they sent, it could be several dozen birds of prey landing and sending out their crews to take the planet. Klingon tactics don't lend to orbital bombardment, but rather face to face melee combat. Holding orbital control isn't in their wheelhouse, either. It is not kind to their fellow warriors to leave some out in space to protect against orbital control and leave them out of combat.
Very good point
@Amber Hoke I dunno about that. Showing that a force is capable of annihilating a planet, or a nation or city for that matter, is a good motivator for surrender. It worked against Japan in 1945, and saved millions in solder and civilian deaths. Those two atomic bombs killed many, but they saved a great many more, likely about 20 times as many, in avoiding a full on invasion. While I mention that Klilngons don't generally like such tactics, I didn't say different tactics aren't better for different circumstances.
One of my favorites. Particularly after being in a war.
Courage is being scared to death, but doing what you have to do anyway.
Awesome! You are amazingly insightful mostly on Jake. However, your questions about the story plot holes are razor sharp!
One of the best INTROS ON RUclips 😎 I would love an extended version as a patreon benefit 💪
Sisko isn't disciplined - publicly, at least - for political reasons: while he may be uncomfortable with it, he is a religious figure to a planet that sits at the entrance to a stable wormhole. That said, Sisko is Terran -- the US Army didn't discipline George Patton when he sent a task force to liberate a POW camp that held his son, a task force that was destroyed....Consistency -- it used to be a thing in Trek.
I liked that they did this to Jake as it plays into his decision to stay on DS9 during the Dominion occupation instead of leaving to safety. Granted he had clout as Sisko's son but it was still a ballsy move.
I do wonder about the parallels of Sisko saving Jake as Worf going off mission to save Jadzia
Very good point and work didn't put a whole crew at risk
I loved this episode. It tore away the veneer of idealism and pacifism, and showed the grim realities of the universe. It was good to see an amazing support character grow under such harsh conditions.
I was about the age Jake was in this episode and in the process on enlisting (never did medical issue), I recall this episode hitting me hard. It made me be honest with myself that while I was almost 100% sure I wouldn't run away from RL Bashir, but could never really know until shells were dropping
Hmmm. Lack of Klingon ships could mean they landed or moved on. Or the omnipresent budget.
it is said that courage is doing what is right even when, especially when, is afraid
I’ve never been so upset that I skipped an episode of a series before.
Jake the “advanced human” who is clearly anything but. It shows humanity as a whole was just as flawed as now a days. Even Jonathan Archers era was more “advanced” as a whole. So the peace they had before the Borg was more harmful than helpful.
All of Trek humans, in all generations I've noticed, like to THINK their all enlightened and advanced but really all that changes is the era.
This is one of my favorites in DS-9 as it brings home what pointless death looks like. Seeing death from any standpoint is hard and the writers of this episode had to have experienced it to relay it so well. When Jake gets hit in the face by that soldier it spoke volumes about the self-preservation mentality that takes people over when in desperate situations. It's one of the biggest dangers search and rescue are trained for, being attacked by the very people you're trying to help. War and disasters you have more anger to deal with than fear and the characters carry this off well.
Sisko didn't likely get into trouble for using the defiant because he is in command of the area and thus could authorize the mission.
Pro tip. The archanis sector isn't even in the same quadrant as Bajoran/Cardassian space. It's in the Beta quadrant. That's why people like myself said that Klingons didn't take The archanis sector, most of the fighting happens extremely far from DS9, many months journey.
Remember the Klingons kept all of the territory they gained from the blitz into Cardassian space. The fighting that happened around DS9 space, it was the garrison forces in Cardassian space causing trouble. It was not the focus of the war.
Also remember the Klingons mined the Bajoran system. Why mine it if they planned to invade? Or for that matter even had adequate forces to invade? They didn't. They tried that once and LOST!
The Klingons withdrew much of their forces from Cardassian space. This is why the Klingons were forced out by just the first Dominon fleet, which couldn't have been more than a couple hundred ships.
Final point. The Federation/Klingon war over The archanis sector was the Dominions long game. The dispute was over 100 years prior and suddenly gets dragged up again. The Founders wanted the Federation/Klingons out of position fighting a pointless broader war hundreds maybe thousands of light years from The wormhole. That's exactly what happened, and is also why the Feds performed so badly in the first few months of open Dominon war. The bulk of the fleet was no where near Bajor.
If I had to do the writer's job, I'd say that there were too few Klingon ships to quickly respond to the Roundabout if they detected it, or too few Klingon shops to cover the planet in general.
I likes this character development of Jake in this episode, most of the perspective of war we see is from the view screen of a starship vs being up close and personal staring down your enemy. It's not often you get to see how an evolved human would really react in the nitty gritty where enemy fire is close enough that a near hit can still burn, but the option to fight or flight is individually availabe as you have no choice in space. He was a hero here having done what needed to be done, and it was pure luck he succeeded AND survived. Had he failed and died, failed and survived, or succeeded and died, I think Jake would still have been given and earned that distinction.
Thank you for the KM/MI conversion!!
@Lore, I agree, this and "The Visitor" are 2 of Jake Sisko's best episodes for DS9. He's the bridge between us and the humans of Star Trek, better in some ways, but in others very human in his responses.
"Nor the Battle too Strong" is a gem of DS9, showing off what makes it unique in Star Trek pantheon and demonstrating why it belongs among Star Trek shows, it's adventure and social commentary done to its zenith with a military conflict.
If Babylon 5's "GROPOS" demonstrate the soldier reality in war, Deep Space Nine's "Nor the Battle too Strong" demonstrates the dire realities of warfare on civilian. These two series were mirror images of each other, but they sometimes fill the gaps that the other left behind. I think GROPOS and this episode actually came out at around the same time as I recall.
Also, since you mentioned this in your title as Klingon/Dominion war view by Civilians, I think the writer's missed an opportunity in DS9 to show an occupied Federation planet. We know who the Betazoid were from TNG, hell Laxanna Troi could have been given an "inglorious bastard" treatment (The novels gave her a lot of character development during the Dominion War). The Federation's Civilian population has never been under occupation and being enslaved by enemy soldiers would be quite a story.
One of my favourite DS9 episodes. I don't judge Jake, he just reacted in the same way a lot of people would do.
Really liked this ep
Well , .... When Jake ran ' he left Basheer also , Hell ' he left Julian
For Dead " he got lucky is all , firing
That Phaser from up under that table an all !
I always thought it kinda neat he was a reporter even though you never see anyone in the series ever watching or reading the news. What would a Federation news show be like?
This was an evolved analysis.
The Tom Cruise film, War of the Worlds, reminded me a little bit of this episode. Both are viewing an interstellar war from a civilian pov.
everyone talks tough when their safe. Put them in a warzone with no training or weapons and their crying babies. A few will step up and at least try to do their job, but most will run and hide. Jake is no coward. He was not prepared mentally for the hell he got into. Even the some of the most well trained soldiers can break when they first enter combat.
I always love your take.
I always thought this was the best episode DS9 ever produced. I remember when it was running fans bitching about how Gene never had a running war. This story exemplifies the types of stories you can only get in a war zone. I think Gene would have been proud.
Similar to what Pez said in another comment, if I hadn't grown up watching MASH, I'd probably think a bit better of this episode. It wasn't bad, but MASH did it better, several times. It didn't necessarily help that I wasn't the biggest fan of Jake, either.
I loved this episode, and your nitpicks are valid, especially the one about Sisko taking the Defiant.
My argument is that they really didnt need the Defiant to protect the station from an entire fleet of Klingons the first go round, and Sisko is a master of bullshitting Starfleet to seeing his way. He probably yadda yaddad some Admiral that having the most powerful ship in the fleet show up at Adjilon Prime would deter the Klingons.
As for the orbital ships, it owuld take 3-4 Klingon battleships to take out a Nebula class cruiser, so if they sent a fleet and the Farragaut destroyed 3 before they killed her, that last ship can only protect so much space before reinforcemnts can arrive, and they would have to strategically place troops where they can do the most damage.
We see a couple orbital attacks in the battle, and one even destroyed the Runabout. Sure, they could have explained that in dialouge, but remember we are seeing the whole show from Jake and Bashi's point of view, Neither had the experience or forsight to know whats happening outside that cave. The chaos was supposed ot eb unsettling, and it was supposed to make you think about the bad decisions they made.
Myt favorite part was at the end, when Ben is reading Jakes story, and he straight up tells him that fear is perfectly normal, and every battle he is in, this is EXACTLY how he feels.
It makes Jake and th eaudience feel better
I remember being a new Marine when this first aired. When Jake abandoned Bashir, I was disgusted. Then when the soldier called out his cowardice I couldn't finish this episode. I still to this day haven't.
This episode changed the way I looked at Jake and the Marine in me couldn't stand him for his cowardice. I did appreciate the writing of future episodes though in from that point he had a reverence for Starfleet and the personnel on the station.
I should find this episode & watch it all the way through now.
Would you expect a citizen of your country, a teenager with no military training no less.. to be as 'brave' as you? If you can, watch it till the end and see what Jake admits.. it may change your perspective on him
This episode was the first episode filed after Ciroc turned 18 and was thus a full member of the company
Klingon ships are busy engaging in skirmishes with federation ships across the system, a runabout would not be seen as a threat at all.
I thought it was stated that they parked a fair bit away so that the klingons wouldn't know where the medical facility was... Of course that may have just been how I justified it and made it headcannon
I would add it’s hard to know for certain where the Klingon ships are since we don’t know the composition of the fleet involved it may not have been a large one
I am surprised the Klingons attacked a medical facility. While I think Martok was a changling at this point, I doubt even he could order such an attack - most Klingons would see it as dishonourable. Looking forward to your thoughts on that.
In battle there is no greater honor than victory
Sisko wanting to send the Defiant to save his son. Is a bit like that mission that General George S Patton authorized to save his son in law from a German POW camp.
he argued that the Defiant oculd take on any Klingon who showed up... as backup.... yeah
He wasnt wrong though. Defiant is ridiculously superpowered up compared to most ships. An one on one really only the strongest Klingon ships could probably take or outgun Defiant in this point of the story
MASH, Star Trek style.
As a physicist, I can not stress enough how big space is. It would be unsurprising if the runabout was able to slip past even ten birds-of-prey if they were patrolling even the immediate area of the planet, let alone a planet. Plus, a runabout is tiny and could easily be misidentified. That my best reasoning.
All my life, the elders of my family...of which there are less and less of as time goes one...have told me that the difference between having fear and being a coward is how we react. A hero is afraid....had fear....anxieties, but the action in the face of that fear or inspite of it is what makes a hero. You are a hero based on the aftermath...because your action is heroic...because death was faced and fear was overcome. A coward runs from their fears and damns other because of it. They rush away because they let the fear overcome them. HOWEVER,Jake was not a coward when he left Bashir, he was inexperienced. Sometimes when people have "had it too good, too long" they begin to forget they are merely humans. As Sisko said... " its easy to be a saint in paradise." Jake had to be challenged...had to learn to manage his feats and act. Oh how I fear for much of the Western World who have had generations of peace should war break out. It's easy to hold liberal views in times of plenty, in times of stability. When that is taken from us or we fight an enemy not so comfortable with their status quo, many will not even understand why they are perishing. You cannot reason with the unreasonable...if an aggressor is seeking your resources or wants to fight a war od attrition negotiations may mean you just die talking. Jake literally had to get dirty to find his footing. For him to be anxious over it is expected for Paradise was LOST.
I always referred to this episode as the Red Badge of Courage episode. We never know how we will react until we are in a true life or death situation.
in my opinion the reason they didn't think of all the different options for the runabout is because Bashir is a doctor and Jake is a teen neither have extensive tactical knowledge and Bashir, being the impetuous doctor who wants to get into the "fight" in his doctor way. Had Dax or Obrien been there with them they would have likely made more of a tactical decision while Bashir was treating the patients. Edit: It would have also defeated the whole point of the episode.
You forget that the Klingon fleet was busy ambushing federation vessels trying to reinforce the planet that’s what springs sisko into action
Sending in a shuttle would be like sending a single armored vehicle to take a base. Way more likely to be successful sending a small group of people to knock out the power then send in your larger better armed force to occupy.
In commenting on this video I say only this: not one of us really can know how we will react in a real life or death situation until we are thrust into one, if we ever are.
That’s just my opinion your results may vary
Jake should have remembered:
'The Emperor Protects!'
And then done some stupid, zealot, action that gets himself killed.
Tungsten Wall Citizen! Your flashlight, cardboard flack jacket, and frag grenades. But sir, the enemy have a Titan!!!! Then fix bayonets citizen!
I noticed the inconsistency in klingon blood as well. It is established in one of the kirk movies, i cant remember the name of the movie at the moment, that klingon blood is pink. How ever for some reason it is always red in ds9. Maybe the same continuity humper that was responsible for voyager was in charge of ds9's klingons?
Good job 👍
Jake was not a coward in this episode (though I haven't seen it, so keep that in mind while reading this). He was an untrained civilian who suddenly found himself in a battlefield and was forced to confront the harsh realities of war. Were I in his position, I am not sure I would be brave enough to return to the hospital, so I admire his character for that.
Sisko is a captain there’s nothing closer to god on earth than a flag officer on a battlefield. It takes a lot to get them into trouble
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he on the _Saratoga_ with his parents during Wolf 359? If I'm right, then he's already been messed in the head with the trauma of the battle and the loss of his mother. Being in this new situation would've more likely than not caused a form of PTSD. The fact he was verbally slapped in the face and faced the situation would make his character growth more pronounced, that is if he was on the _Saratoga_ .
Daniel Seelye Jake was a baby on the Saratoga.
@@Mostlyharmless1985 Had to look up Memory Alpha: Jake was on the _Saratoga_ during Wolf 359, aged 11. Old enough to remember, but considering how he acted on the station I think he was helped by mental health professionals. However, he never got to the same level of calamity and near death as he did at Wolf 359 until on the planet in this episode. I could understand explaining his actions as flashing back to that day, only this time he had someone to call him out on it and the added years of maturity (scant few they were) to do what he couldn't then: Stand Up & Be Counted.
It was great that Jake was not a Wesley crusher.... it was refreshing
DS9: Self-realised coward Jake saves medics and patients by caving in entrance with random phaser shots. Claimed hero.
Red Dwarf: Always-protrayed coward Rimmer saves dead Lister, Cat & Kryten by shooting Time Drive with a point-blank Bazookiod shot before Future Selves could; causing a Time Reversal saving them all. Technical hero.
The difference being that Rimmer is not credited for his actions, as even himself realised what Kryten was about to suggest and did it on his accord. Maybe it was due to him knowing if he doesn't they'd all be dead or lost to time, so why not do it himself? (ignoring the fact he's already dead and is a Hologram; his holographic self would be dead due to his light-bee being destroyed in the explosion or no power source to keep it charged). Jake just fired out of fear and accidentally brought the house down.
Sisko had a few heavy advantages in his favor for taking the defiant on such a personal mission.
First, he's a captain and has had to suffer through sacrifices many can't imagine and are therefore granted a certain leeway.
Second, nobody wants his job lol. Protecting a vulnerable station at the mouth of a wormhole when at any moment a hostile enemy force with unlimited resources can swarm out of that spacial orifice and obliterate you is not an ideal post.
Third and final, he's the emissary. A whole planet of people in charge of the most strategic location in the quadrant, that you want to recruit into the federation will not be too happy with his sanction.
I'm not saying that Sisko is irreplaceable, it would have to be over something a lot bigger than rescuing his son.
I've been under siege before (a very credible school shooting threat which made 90% of 4,000 students stay home) and I can tell you, Sun Tzu is right when he says if you give a fighting man a chance for escape he'll take it.
The day was pretty tense and we were all cracking jokes, even me the new guy. So I can understand the kid's reaction, if you've never been in the situation you wouldn't know what to do.
Even if it's not the greatest episode, it really does show what DS9 did best. War is not glorious and antiseptic - it's bloody and horrific. Also, If you're hoping to do videos on all the Trek movies we know and love... are you not intending to cover the other 10 movies!?
This is basically the Scifi version of the old classic famous story "the Red Badge of Courage" since like that Civil War era Union Soldier its Jake's perspective and everyone thinks BOTH of them did something really heroic when they did something cowardly or would seem so at least to them, an neither really was ever found out. BUT the. Basically seem to undo that by ACTUALLY doing something totally heroic that kinda expunges said disgrace. One my more favorite miseries episodes.
An it's not that he ran as much as he can the way he did... youd be surprised what you can and will do and how long you can keep it up along with at a prolonged intensity when your in a similar situation that triggers it.
Klingon ships may have been orbiting at a different position around the planet, even with unobstructed line of sight, the distance would make visual detection of another ship nearly impossible... also, Klingons have cloaking devices
Got no prob with jake running was terrified like anyone else specially a kid
I know "scared" and "cowardly" are synonyms but I think they're completely different in this context. The officer who shot himself in the foot was cowardly because he willfully abandoned his comrades and his duty to save himself. Jake's actions, while similar, are also completely different because he understood his mistake and even attempted to make recompense. That's why I understand and even empathize with Jake.
I know you often rant about how they let families onto military ships but I think it's a necessary device in order to bridge the audience with the world of the series. Not all of us are soldiers or scientists or doctors or commanders. We're just civilians, common people, so to have someone like Jake (or even Wesley for that matter) there makes the series a bit more palpable.
There were no families on TOS _Enterprise_. Or, for that matter, ST:E _Enterprise_.
I chuckle because you mention that Arcanis was taken but it is mentioned in that same conversation Golandan IV was defended and the Klingons had to retreat. This is why I say Starfleet suffered losses but was still putting it to the Klingons. It was not a one way slaughter.
I will say that I don't understand how Starfleet would send one ship to deal with an invasion of a colony. I can't see how the lone Farragut would have survived.
Lore reloaded What do think of if jake sisko had choosen to join starfleet?
The Farragut...???
As Funny as it would be to have the Klingons bag another Galaxy Class, I like to picture Star Fleet Sending a Nebula...
Ensign - "Sir! A Planet is being wrecked by the Klingons!!!"
Admiralty - "Hmmm... Klingons... Send a Single Support/Engineering Ship to take them on...!!!"
I think This episode is red badge of courage in space
"Courage is being scared to death... and saddling up anyway." ~ John Wayne.
As a former Navy Hospital Corpsman, I can tell you, NO hero thinks they are one. Jake had never been exposed to combat. He acted as you would expect a young, untrained, (and even some who are trained) young man would react. His actions are appropriate for the circumstances. What counts is that he came back.
Also, as a former Corpsman, I can tell you that in a combat situation, having to stop and treat a self inflicted wound while people, his friends and colleagues, are dying, stops the medical personnel from trying to prevent that from happening.
This is something we as Corpsmen believe.
The Rules of War:
Rule #1 - Young men die.
Rule #2 - Even "Doc" can't change rule #1
Rule #3 - For his Brothers, "Doc" will go through the Gates of Hell, and give his life to change Rules #1 and #2
All in all, I found it was pretty spot on.
You don't mention and I don't even see any comments about the fact that this episode is scene-by-scene The Red Badge of Courage?
He boldly ran away, away! Brave, brave Sir Jake!
But in all seriousness, that's exactly what any untrained civilian would do in his situation.
I always took it that the attacking Klingon were of a house that wasn't very loyal to Gowron. They still wanted to fight and probably concocted some 'honorable reason why their attack was justified despite the cease fire. That would explain the haphazard attack strategy and lack of maintaining space dominance. They came in, brushed off space defense to land troops then skedaddled before anyone in the KDF noticed what the ships were up to. They might have figured that if they took the planet then after the official war they can claim it or at least get reparations for its return. Or political currency for that matter.
Jake was great for showing exactly how useless a journo is in any given situation that doesn't involve trading gossip over tea in some sidewalk café. That said, I really don't fault him for running away from the firefight he was in; he's a civilian facing terrifying adversaries. Granted, I think he's also a perfect way to describe Federation citizens (of Earth, especially). I think the Cracked After Hours channel that perfectly hit the nail on the head on the ordinary citizens of the Federation in that they are soft, sated and constantly looking for the Something New. Whether its a cool new Alien of the week brought to you by the few intrepid types who would actually join Starfleet or a new original holonovel to relieve the boredom of living in paradise, the soft and pampered common citizens of the federation will take even the rookie writings of a fledgling "reporter" because they're just that bored.
I always thought Bashir was actually the changeling in this episode cause of the later reveal.
Could be wrong, cause I don't remember if this one was set before his kidnapping was supposed to happen
Lore here could be a possible reason for no Klingon ships using real life military reasons during the battle of Saipan the US navy left the island after the Marines landed to intercept any ships coming to reinforce the island or and troops transports a similar thing could have happend here.
Sisko didn’t get in trouble for going to save Jake for one simple reason. The admirals know not to fuck with The Sisko.
I think of it this way: I don't judge Jake at all. He's a civilian, been protected most of his life. If he was a soldier, yes, then you can judge his actions.
Every able-bodied young man and woman should have been drafted into the military by the federation without exceptions including his son
It was a good writing choice for Jake to have no interest in joining Starfleet
Don't forget the Farragut was a Nebula-class starship. Klingons managed to destroy a Nebula-class ship. What?
Something called a 20 to 1 advantage and the advantage of an ambush
There's a reason the USSR was able to defeat Germany despite German tanks being far superior, and it's numbers, simply send more bodies at the enemy than they have bullets and you win
@@edgardox.feliciano3127 Also Germany was laughably unprepared for sub-zero warfare or that Stalin had moved most of the USSR's productions over the Ural mountains away from the European theater.
Do klingons not have red blood? Only asking because you said them haven't red blood in a weird way
As a Former soldier, That coward is a coward. Shooting yourself in the leg to get out of fighting is the worse. Because you took yourself out of the fight you rob a squad of a team, a platoon of a squad, a company of a platoon and so on and so forth. I can see Civilians doing that, I cant understand soldiers doing that.
Plus remember Jake wasn't trained Star Fleet.
So you could attack enemy ground units from space
'Nor the Battle to *the* Strong'. I thought it was just a glitch last episode, but then it was repeated here. :-) Unless 'to' was 'too', it wouldn't make a lot of sense without the 'the'.