My take is remaster and add in NEW events for BL2. You can save Roland and you can spare/save Jack. But those are CANON events that make BL2 BL2. Or make short BL game AWAAAY from the main story with soo much good little things: -You have an NPC companion with a competent AI that'll help and interact with your character in and outside of a cutscene or action sequence. -make the companion characters AI have a karma rating that'll play a big role in the players ending. Like >give them legendaries and good gear = good ending >give them crap guns and bad loot = bad ending + they'll steal your guns from your inventory. Since it's a short game, I'd make this side story BL game a rogue like with 5 chapters and 9 levels. Grinding for good loot will be thrown out the window in favor of making do with the rng loot that'll be awarded to you and the companion character at the end of each level and chapter and so on... This is such and anti-thesis to BL main end goal of hoarding good loot, for the sake of replayability and character building. Oh and this is all to MAKE a character interact with you as much as handsome jack did in BL2, but the way that character will turn out, will be at the mercy of the players play through.
Handsome Jack is only really a problem for Gearbox because their writers simply seem not good enough writers to make a character even remotely as good as Jack. Whatever happened to the writing team between 2 and 3 has been such a massive downgrade
Say what you want about Wonderlands but The Dragon Lord is proof that is not true. And despite all of the games problems he is actually the first bad guy to seem like he wasn't living in Handsome Jack's shadow or Handsome Jack archetype with a twin who is also a Handsome Jack archetype with a business partner buddy who is a Handsome Jack archetype.
Honestly I think the campaign was a misfortunate fluke, most the DLC stories proves that. I just finished the Guns and Tentacle DLC and it was a ton of fun for me.
I think the only thing to make a good villain for the next BL game is turning someone of the vault hunters evil and make him the main villain...lets say...bad lilith?
bl3's lead writer admitted that like, 2 years before the game released they had basically designed the entire game/story up to that point with them bringing handsome Jack back again. They then started watching videos/reddit posts/their own forum posts checking to see what the community might want or not want in the next game that would be possible for them to change. They then realized that literally everybody was saying that they didn't want handsome jack to come back from the dead again. So they basically scrapped all of the story work they had done up to that point and had to start over from scratch. And when you think about how the main story of a game influences the environments, character motivations, side quests, items, etc. They essentially had to make 70% of bl3 in less than 2 years.
Timothy Lawrence is a great character that can return, he is very different from Jack, despite "being" him. He should be allowed to return occasionally as his own character. Krieg got done dirty in base BL3, but his character in the the DLC was done so perfectly, the expansion of his story and him coming to terms with himself was smart and you could tell the writers did that from the heart. Shoehorning Jack back into the story through Rhys would be a mistake, his story is done, we know everything about him and how far he went, and even in BL3 we get the final pieces of his life, and Angel's broken life. If any character's motives deserve to show back up, show us the TRUE Eridians. We have only seen The Watcher...twice in TPS, and even then we have no idea what their goal was since Gearbox hasn't followed up on that story line at all yet. Spin-offs aside, there is only so much left to do with this universe. Possibly deal with the Eridians for good, then what? There would be no more Sirens, no more Vaults, no more borderworlds to explore, no more promise of adventure. Nekrotefayo was kinda disappointing, bring us to the Eridian home world just to have..no Eridians? There's is still so many unanswered questions that will probably be dropped again in favor of trying to pump out some more schlock like the Calypso Twins.
well jack coming back through rhys could explain the atrocious character assassination they did in new tales, but i agree, that would be really stupid. i would love to see kreig come back as a playable character with his mind now in sync with his psycho self, that would yield interested playstyle i think. but what they really need to do is involve the vault hunters you play in the cutscenes, cuz that to me is bl3 real failure, the story happens infront of us and what do we do? watch things happen and not lend a single finger to help? like wtf gearbox.
@@Aqsticgod yea this cutscene problem is a major one, player just dont feel lika a part of the story theres only one cutscene, where you really are present --- its when one of the villains hold you in phaselock (and thats it, no more interaction)
while i do think the writers should have elaborated more throughly one the slag experimentation and general torture Hyperion and Dr. Benedict did to Krieg, i thought it was a brilliant and nuanced move to have Kreigs past truly gone and have Kreig make peace with himself and move on
Keeping Jack would definitely be a mistake, and I bet the regretted killing him more than anything. What I think they need to do would be another game before the climax we've been waiting for, but this time it must be completely absent of the characters we already know. Since they failed with B3 they need another go to prove that they're good enough to handle the payoff they've been building up to. Something back to basics; treasure hunters roaming a wilderness plagued by monsters, madmen, and (para)military.
@@fredcasdensworld Hmmm, let's see. Lilith, Mordecai, Tannis, Maya, Claptrap, counting DLC Krieg and Jack, and on and on. What, do you think that just because the big villains and a focused side-character were new it suddenly qualifies as "completely absent"?
Handsome Jack in Bl2: INCREDIBLE!!! Handsome Jack in the pre sequel: Cool backstory, well done Handsome Jack in Tales: Didn't need to be there but Rhys cannonically gets rid of him so it's fine Handsome Jack in Bl3: Okay stop Handsome Jack in Bl4: I think it would retroactively make him bad in everything else
It's the same problem that Bethesda has in Fallout series. They just can't stop putting Enclave and Brotherhood of Steel into every goddamn game in a major role.
Handsome Jack kinda fit into Tales tbh....in pre sequel there was already scientists cloning handsome jack (albeit failure compared to the ai) it's not far fetched to assume that the most paranoid man in the cosmos would have artificial clones by the time bl2 comes around.
Handsome Jack got gradually staler every time he was reintroduced after BL2. Though none of his appearances were weak or dull, the character really started to run out of story. To me, TFTBL1 closed his chapter for good and I don't want him to return. They'll just butcher him and probably tie his success even more to Moxxi... "somehow Jack returned"... christ.
the writers need to not write modern day memes into the game. They wrote bl3 like 3-4 years before its release, and they used too much "disposable comedy" to make 90% of the jokes in the game. All they have to do is make the world just a little less goofy when necessary.
I mean, they already have "Hero" Jack in Timothy. Handsome Jack's dead. Mabe just have Tim act as "reformed" Jack to the new villains. His character always struck me as Jack's "could have been". A Jack before be was Handsome, that hero who saved Elpis and actually did everything to protect Angel. If Jack's "one bad day" made him Batman instead of Joker. You could have him comment on Jack's actions, comparing Handsome's actions to their own and trying to turn antagonists from the path of evil through semi-experience. Gearbox can have it's cake and eat it too. Handsome's still dead, but Jack still lives. Mabe the DNA of Jack Timothy has was truly the "last bit of good" Handsome had in him and now Tim is trying to carve out a new life for himself before getting sucked into the vault wars. He knows what is in them. He knows what happens when people have that power. He knows the madness and destruction the vaults cause. Hell, he could be working with Rhys and Fiona to open/guard vaults to stop another Pandora from happening. Idk, just spitballing, but Tim could be used as an excellent narrative tool. A weird dynamic of an irredeemable but sympathetic villain becoming a redeemed hero and using his experience in villainy and to dissuade others from it. Hell, if Gearbox is hellbent on having Ava as the new MC, have Tim prevent her from becoming Handsome Jack, when her actions, like Lillith's, were going too far. I mean, he's got Jack's DNA in him and is a cool dude already, why not have him act as an "adoptive father/mentor". Tim trying to prove he isn't Jack by not being a dick. Handsome really did love his daughter, but that love was buried over a mountain of trauma and grief. Mabe have that tiny part of Jack amped up to 11 in BL4? Idk, that and the visual of Tim going out like Rolland by the new villain post-arc would is hilarious, disturbing and depressing. Laugh crying moment basically.
I honestly think one of the best things they can do is to go back to BL2. Revamp the game with modern fighting mechanics. Remaster the BL2 Campaign. But... Make a new campaign where you end up working for Jack. The Siren would be Angel. Nisha would make a return and so on. I like to imagine Angel would be against fighting the Crimson Raiders. But slowly turns to the dark side and agrees with her father by the end. I like the idea of fighting against the VH's you play as in BL1 & BL2. Especially Lilith. Who has gone from an alright character to an obnoxious one throughout the past decade.
Yep remaster and add in NEW events for BL2. You can save Roland and you can spare/save Jack. But those are CANON events that make BL2 BL2. Or make short BL game AWAAAY from the main story with soo much good little things: -You have an NPC companion with a competent AI that'll help and interact with your character in and outside of a cutscene or action sequence. -make the companion characters AI have a karma rating that'll play a big role in the players ending. Like >give them legendaries and good gear = good ending >give them crap guns and bad loot = bad ending + they'll steal your guns from your inventory. Since it's a short game, I'd make this side story BL game a rogue like with 5 chapters and 9 levels. Grinding for good loot will be thrown out the window in favor of making do with the rng loot that'll be awarded to you and the companion character at the end of each level and chapter and so on... This is such and anti-thesis to BL main end goal of hoarding good loot, for the sake of replayability and character building. Oh and this is all to MAKE a character interact with you as much as handsome jack did in BL2, but the way that character will turn out, will be at the mercy of the players play through.
In my opinion, having jack in borderlands 3 as DLC is a good idea, it gives them a good reason to give the fans the borderlands 2 flavour in the borderlands 3 enginee, I loved it. Especially when timmothy does the jack impression
Hearing Timothy impersonate Jack genuinely FEELS like Jack sometimes. I remember when I played through the Handsome Jackpot with my sister she thought Timothy was going to become Jack or something once he had the outfit and all.
I heard and thought about a theory of the theme for the next game. The borderlands war, that erupts because someone opens up a relic more ancient than the Eridians which brings back ALL of the dead, thus the entire universe would be at war. This could introduce the Eridians, original Sirens etc. but also bring back all the previous world goods and evils. The main story probably revolving around there being too many sirens, the universe collapsing because and to resolve it by resetting the entirity of Borderlands. Now in this scenario, I think bringing Jack back would be a good thing, because he most certainly wouldn’t be the main focus of the game, maybe it’d end up in a situation of “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” and team up with our Crimson Raiders. It could finally also bring back the dream of all Vault Hunters being playable in one game, redeeming the mess of Borderlands 3 by making the characters more redefined, memorable and likable. Now, it would most likely be a nightmare to write, code and execute properly and gameplay wise to balance and design. In the end, it will most likely not go in this direction and we’ll have to suffer through another Handsome Jack wannabe villian who’ll be even more mushed down into a “whacky” and “bizarre” one sided character
This would honestly be perfect having everyone back and going in this universal war direction and they should probably just end the series after the next game if they do this right. Sounds too good to be true, I miss Jack and Roland.😢
i honestly believe they will use another weapon manufacturers ceo or other important figure of that group as the villain, since a few of them, no matter if it makes sense or not, have been used as villains. bl1 was atlas, 2 was hyperion and fight for sanctuary was dahl, 3 was cov/bandit and maliwan, new tales was tediore, maybe more that dont pop up to mind right now. i'd say dahl has a really good shot for being the big bad in bl4
I mean if you count Zarpedon from the pre sequel, Dahl was a big part of that, from the beginning to the point where Zarpedon dies though that was it, there wasn't a "main" villain in that game.
If gearbox does decide to bring back Handsome Jack, the only thing that I would want is for him to finally be the hero he always wanted to be and be an actual good guy, like he could do an uno reverse card, which I think would be good enough of a closure for him so they can no longer being him back hopefully, oh and also make sure he does die in the end too so you know he physically can not comeback without that small chip he was captured in
The only problem is the fan boys obsessed over Jack. Was he a good villain? Yes. Was he SOOOOOOOO good every other one is no where as good. No, not even close. Jack is Overrated.
Funny that in Borderlands 3, the best content, IMHO, was Moxxi's Heist. Putting Moxxi together with Timothy was a great story with a great ending. They should have made it Borderlands 3 and given us the crap that was Borderlands 3 as some kind of DLC. FusterCluck was good too, but not at the level of Moxxi's Heist. Loved the Video.
For some reason when I first beat it at the end when Timothy is running out before he did the freeze frame jump I was sorta expecting that his head would just blow up from the bomb for some reason
It is definitely crazy to say that besides Jack throughout all of Borderlands, I can only think of ONE singular villain I resonated with similarly, Knoxx, however ironically General Knoxx fills the EXACT same role as Jack does but in his own DLC, even doing similar shit like giving you crap over the ECHO. Buuuut that doesn't take away from his dry can't be fucked anymore attitude to everything, Knoxx may have been a villain from years ago but man is he still as good a one as Jack albeit for a much shorter time with less fleshing out. I pray they do Jack the GODDAMN justice a hero like him deserves. But seriously they have such a well written character who has now been fully fleshed out, if they pull some Palpatine shit and do a "Somehow he's back" manoeuvre on us my God they have no respect for us as the fans anymore, (and if they DO bring him back and its good I literally don't know how they would do that) Borderlands 3 was a gargantuan smack in the face still to this day the ONE redeeming quality of that game is the Vault Hunters, the skill trees/personalities of the main lot really did carry the weight of that games enormous shit it took on Borderlands as a whole.
In terms of writing: Borderlands is okay Borderlands 2 is legendary Borderlands TPS is eh (Claptastic Voyage was pretty good) Tales from the Borderlands is great Commander Lillith sucked Borderlands 3 sucked Wonderlands sucked New Tales from the Borderlands sucked Gearbox really hasn't made anything good since 2015, knowing the leadership at Gearbox and Taketwo, I am going to say that if you are in any way shape or form hoping for something better to come along, you are setting yourself up for heartbreak
Borderlands PEAKED TOO HARD ON 2 and tales from the borderlands is the last greatest story we'll get, story wise. Gearbox doesn't deserve to make anything out of borderlands since then, until they make a new game that can replace borderlands THEN they can make another borderlands entry.
Borderlands and story kekW . If thay create bl4 and hopefully with no unneded agenda ill buy it just to have fun inside of the game .If game and humor with easter egs are tahre ill play it . Story is a filler in this game imho .
I still think jack didn't actually die and that was another one of his doppelgangers who awakens the warrior it been said he would never truly face you in a fight I would love if handsome jack comes back
Wouldn’t make sense as 1. We literally see the scar on his real face (the mask being removed didn’t explode as well) 2. The thing happens at the casino when he died meaning it was the real one. 3. Why would he give a body double the honor of waking the warrior especially when the real one would have to do it to control it. Also with the one thing you said sure normally he wouldn’t face you but you kinda forced him.
Alright, this is exactly what uve been saying about his overuse of Jack and how they go about the characters. reducing them so much that its ruining their characters and turning them inyo jokes of their past selves. There is a name for this phenomenon:Flanderization. I hope this helps for the future.
technically jack doesnt appear in the weird BL1 mobile RTS/Tower Defense thing that like two people played but... nobody talks about that theres alao the old Mount Jackmore teaser game that he appeared in tho do it all balances out
i don't even remember most of the characters in BL3 the game was really unmemorable and forgettable, at least the base game though, the DLCs were a lot better.
@@Raindrop511Typhoon DeLeon and Wainwright jacobs were cool characters i think. Looking back i don't feel like they introduced a whole lot of new characters in 3.
So... you're entire premise is based on the assumption there aren't people who enjoy the narrative seen in the Borderlands franchise.... that's pretty sad.
I think Handsome Jack as a villain has been used well, but yeah, if he got put into bl4 it wouldn't make any sense, given we know there's no more ai backups of him in existance. Think they should just give us the vault war or a prep to it and give us some more vault hunters, I wanna have a game that lets us play as new vault hunters as well as vault hunters past, would be really cool
I think jacks return would be interesting, My idea is jack helped rhys rebuild atlas with his experience as a CEO then in some spin off rhys loses control of his body and jack takes over and boom bl4
Hes gonna cone back cause he can technically be counted as atill alive due to his body doubles and memory chips & its weird how i never think of guitar solos when thinking of Mr.TORGUE i think... EXPLOSIONS!!??!?
I Feel like that was the exact reason gearbox decided on having the doppelgangers and Rhys' mindfuckery, so if they wanted to bring him back, they wouldn't have to reach far to grab a legitimate reason
The body doubles wouldn’t make sense as when he died his face literally had the scar under the mask (also removing the mask didn’t blow his face up) and clearly it was the real one if his death caused the thing at the casino to happen. Also he had to be the one to wake the warrior to control it. And even if it didn’t matter who woke it knowing his personality he would still want to be the one to wake it.
@@Greenhawk4Yep it was 1000% supposed to be the real jack in the vault at the end of borderlands 2. If they change that now it is a retcon, a very bad one at that.
Was he really the bad guy??? In TPS it pretty much justified his actions. 3 everyone acts all high and mighty trashing jack like they had nothing to do pushing him to the edge.
@@themachoechidnaugandarandy7583 TPS justified his hatred towards the crimson raiders but not his actions The guy locked his own daughter up in a chamber before he ever met a vault hunter, and tried to make Pandora his planet wide north Korea with a vault monster to keep everyone else in check. He was a lunatic from the moment he found out that his daughter is a siren
Bringing Jack back is one of those "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" type scenarios. Jack is the most successful and popular villain in the series, they knocked it so far out of the park in Borderlands 2 that by killing him off they set themselves up for failure if they were to try to outdo him in 3. They kinda had the right idea in having the next villain just kinda be its own standalone thing, but the direction they took that idea in just wasn't... Good. Because Jack was killed off though, that puts them in a pickle for if they ever want to genuinely commit to bringing him back. If they go ahead with it, they are in a position where they are going to have to absolutely nail it. He can't just be coming back in some easily predictable way, it needs to be big, bold, completely out of left field, and feel like something Jack would and could actually do without getting too crazy or convoluted. They are also going to need to ramp up his threat level without that coming off as too absurd either. If they don't completely nail it, it's going to fall flat and just turn the franchise into an even bigger embarrassment than they've already made it into. Regardless of how it could be done though, there's a really big potential problem in doing it which is that it limits the series growth moving forward. As long as the series remains stuck having to rely on Jack, it can't grow into anything more than that. A better direction I think would be to just focus on the Eridian War plotline. Rather than focusing on a specific villain, have the "bad guys" be the vault monsters that are getting unleashed around the galaxy. Really amp these things up, make it so that these vault monsters are bigger and more dangerous than anything we have ever encountered before, really make these things forces of nature that require whole armies of Vault Hunters to stop them. Really lean into that war vibe that Pre-Sequel was hyping up. The story could just be that too many vaults have been opened up, causing the entire vault network to become unstable. Maybe the vaults weren't just designed to lock away monsters such as the Destroyer, but rather the entire combined network serves to lock away even bigger and badder monsters that grow stronger with every vault that gets opened. Now these bigger, badder monsters are starting to break free, and they really do need all the Vault Hunters they can get to put a stop to them and save the galaxy.
They do need to drop Jack I feel you, the handsome jackpot was the last “passable” excuse to use him. But I seriously think they need to stop with the “woke/washed” characters, they should just be what we fell in love with, BL2 wasn’t crass or cancelable by todays standards so idk why they diverged so much
I actually liked the First Vault Hunter guy, from BL 3. Aside from that I think the Calypso twins concept had some really good elements to it and was decently executed. I think they would came out way better if the rest of the story wasn't dogshit. F*cking lolerai, or the cowboy? or pretty much everything else. They really dropped the ball on this game's narrative.
Rhys possessed by Jack doesn't sound too bad actually, but i just KNOW they will screw up the characters and writing, I mean Rhys in the new tales game acted more like Jack than himself with how bad he was written.
I feel like they could bring Jack back by easing him back. In like for example the 4th game. Like bring him back after a few dlcs later after they have laid some heavy ground work to hint his return or in a 5th game after all the dlcs to the 4th game laid the ground work for his return and make that a base game plot only. Like maybe have Jack not be how he was in the second game. Maybe instead of fighting him we work with him to return him to his seat of power and he ends up either leaving or just settles somewhere. Either one of these would be a satisfying way at least for me that they could logically do it.
They did plan on Jack being back in BL3. They changed the plan very last minute you can even find models for jack statues on atlas in the code of the game so its not a stretch to still bring him back.
Ykw, the original borderlands to the pre-sequel had honestly good story but borderlands 3? Not as much, although the game DOES have new mechanics, and new stuff, the story is just like from: "ok honestly good introduction sequence" to: "what a load of garbage" to: "WTF is the story telling?!"
They should’ve definitely made Jack the main villain in Borderlands 3. We needed more of his humor and whit. I’m less confident than ever we will get the Borderlands of old we know and love. As far as I’m concerned this series is dead.
Jack literally owned Hyperion aka respond machines .. I pray Jack comes back and all the vault hunters are hunting for him through out the cosmos! Would be nice story tbh
Even though he doesn’t appear in BL1, Borderlands was Jack’s story. Although he was never even conceptualized in 1, he puppeteered Angel to make the original 4 vault hunters open the vault. Once he died and original Tales finished, it lost its main character. It’s very similar to when Rick was taken out of The Walking Dead, the show lost its direction but I heard that the movies with him in it is really good. At the time BL3 was hinted at, I hoped they had a cool, new big baddie but they were incredibly mediocre but now I wish they milked Jack more because he’s much better than the twins. Imo, Borderlands died when Jack did.
a character from a previous game is NEVER the problem. The bad writters are. They never succeeded to make new ones better. Rhys and characters from the telltales games are shadows of themselves, same goes for the cast of the 1 and 2 games.... So not much to go on.
Jack is The Joker, Darth Vader, Sephiroth and Voldemort. He sets the bar when it comes to villains and best embodies the spirit of Borderlands. No other villain will match him in the series. Personally I want more Jack, but if they insist on a new villain, their best chance is with a 'serious threat with a sympathetic cause' type like Bane or Thanos. I also don't think it would be hard to bring Jack back, he won and got the H-Source in TPS. Have him put his conscious in the Hyperion network and let him digistruct himself. Heck you can even make it where Jack can only come back into a Claptrap unit.
I always felt that the reason we won't get a good villain like jack is because we put him on a pedestal like he is handsome jack one of the best villains in gaming but because we put him high up gearbox try to use that
I wouldn't mind if Jack came back in borderlands 4. Just write him a good part. I mean write him a part the same caliber as they did in borderlands 2. Most of the dialog in borderlands 3 is just awful, not funny and/or is just dumb as f*ck. Those people should never write for a borderlands game, ever. Borderlands 2 should be the absolute standard for first-person borderlands games and looter shooters in general. Borderlands 2 writing should be the standard for all borderlands games, in my personal opinion. That may be more of a hot take than anything.
They could make it so since Timothy has Jacks DNA it would eventually take him over completely leading to him becoming evil like Jack and the villain of BL4
0:45 Palpatine did it, so why not? 2:15 That is a tasty Plasma Caster! That's one of the super-rare ones, right? Pearlescent, maybe? 4:59 Why does Krieg, who's right-handed, wear a left-handed gas mask (see also the TF2 Pyro)? His right eye appears to be covered up. Is he missing it? If so, then he should shoot left-handed. I quit watching 'The Walking Dead' because they kept screwing that up. Like, half the character specifically lose their right eyes, yet they continue shooting right-handed like idiots. 5:10 Sir Hammerlock should shoot left-handed and should sling weapons on his back in left-handed configuration like he did in Borderlands 2. He still held guns right-handed for no reason, but only because programmers don't pay attention to details like they oughtta. Also, the gun in that back-scabbard should be facing lever-up. So if he's going to sling it right-handed, he should at least put the gun in there the right way. Otherwise, keep it as it is, but turn it over to left-handed configuration (and actually shoot left-handed). I know, I know. Ellie mentions something about all the left-handed guns getting sucked out into space. Most of the guns are ambidextrous. The only ones that are specifically right-handed are side-ejecting bullpups. 5:21 Again, why does he shoot right-handed? And if he shoots right-handed, then why does he sling long guns on his back in left-handed configuration? Third-person games get this wrong all the time. 6:19 Teacupping a single-action revolver while cocking the hammer with the thumb of the shooting hand?! Are we EVER going to see single-action revolvers in an FPS game that are cocked using the cross-thumb technique? That's the preferred technique for single-action revolvers (and is ONLY useful with single-action revolvers). 7:06 How do you fire more than two shots out of a breach-loaded double-barrel shotgun? It's different if it's a "tandem" or "duplex" system with all parts duplicated (twin receivers, barrels, magazines, etc.). BL3 Jakobs shotguns can have double barrels and can feed from a box mag. Of course, they screwed that up by having it be a single box mag instead of two of them clamped together. 9:06 Caustic Caverns Ambient
The thing is tho because they clearly can write well, bl3 has some genius writing in the echo logs and every APART from the main campaign, the only thing bl3's story fell flat on was excecution. Rose is amazing, Eleanor was amazing, Clay, Wainright, Zane, Fl4k, all amazingly written characters. And for those who say handsome jack is the only good villain, General Knoxx was fantastic, Zarpedon was intruiging. It's just the fact that Gearbox has become a money making shill for Randy and its obvious. Thats why new tales exists, its milking what exists instead of making something new. The DLC's for bl3 are fantastic because they are fundementally new ideas for the series that work well.
Bro, Jack has been a problem for Borderlands ever since he died in 2. Like, I loathe the fact these writers can't get even CLOSE to the stroke of genius they had, and so they keep digging out his poor face from the dirt again and again. He's constantly been showing up. Frankly, every new 'here's Jack again' moment just makes me loathe the writing more. Not the character himself, but just the fact these supposed paid writers can not just move on and find something else that's good. Heck, just make another character LIKE him, but just... let the man rest for once.
We needed Timothy and there was nothing wrong with Digijack. And yeah digiJack is still alive in a gun which in my opinion deserves a real buff. The issues arise when you get Maya's death. Everything about that assassinated the main story and forced players to see the real problem with the game. The devs forgot how they handled Roland. You are literally in the same room when Roland died but things happened so fast you the player being used as the camera were made to feel helpless despite being part of the cinematic. Maya's death you are literally in the room but completely ignored like you aren't there. Then the twins and Katagawa. Those 3 are the biggest problema with BL3 villians. They all were given the handsome Jack Archetype without actually being Handsome Jack. All 3 were bad guys who some what treated you or one of your helpers as best friends while trying to destroy everything you love and represent. Those 3 felt so much lesser because of that. Personally if the bad guys are treated like their own thing with new personalities instead of trying to live up to Handsome Jack we could see a return to what is truly great about Borderlands. A prime example being despo Wonderlands flaws the Dragon Lord himself was actually a good villain with his own unique personality. If more bad guys felt unique like this then a return of Timothy or a return of Handsome Jack as a side character wouldn't be so much of a problem even if jack is the Digijack pulled from The Handsome Jackhammer gun line.
The AI is in Handsome Jack Hammer... But ofcourse that gun isn't part of of the Story. Kinda like GenIVIV Should be put into Messy Breakup shield by Marcus.
Honestly i think jack had a good send off to bring him back whould be weird and i personally like the twins they gave a little more info about sirens typhoon because thats there dad people like to say there annoying and yes there supposed to be there the annoying streamers that talk shit and asks for subs from there chat Jack was also annoying just in a different way
Finally, someone agrees with me! Please. No more Jack. Anything but Jack. (He's next to irrelevant in my rewrite lolllllll) (Also kinda irrelevant but do you ever plan on making a Discord server?)
bl3 needed like, idk story seasons or something, there was way too much for just 1 campaign and it felt rushed also typhon dying was fucking awful narratively and for the potential sequel, there was so much they could've done with him i feel
They need to overhaul the whole story cuz then they can undo their mistakes lol its told by Marcus (who isnt the most reliable source) 😅 they could bring back Handsome jack, Maya, an perhaps flesh out the story from TPS .
Bamaxx could have been removed and nothing in the story would have changed I'm sorry. They could have brought back axton instead of joke character number 95
Jack was not in borderlands 3 it was echo recording that played he died in borderlands 2 I know this because I shot him In The face with a jacops double barrel stage coach shotgun
The twins on paper were really good its just the execution was terrible I think gearbox knows theyre fucked because the only other villain I hated besides Jack was Lilith lol and that was 2kangaroo
Borderlands 3 has the fallout 4 problem of the story of the story game being so shit that the better gameplay and quality of life improvements dont make up for the story being bad. Both games have good things going for it but the story of each game falling short to the others make it so I loathe playing it and would rather play the other games in the franchise instead. I hope borderlands 4 will not have this problem in general
In tales Rhys got rid of Jack making his character arc better he was not ok with Jack being in his conscience but he did kinda feed into Jack when he wanted to benefit from him it was only towards the end when he realized that his friends meant more to him than power and purged Jack out of his brain seeing as though most of that character development was retconed in new tales and borderlands 3 i wouldn't be surprised if they didn't just say no rhys didn't get rid of Jack and in fact he got infected by Jack and was secretly controlled the whole time hints why Rhys is completely different than how he was at the end of tales and more nonsensical and assholeish in bl3 and new tales setting up the return of characters from tales and the ruining of more beloved characters because gear box just loves doing that
Everyone I met either only plays borderlands 2 or they have played Minecraft at least once and borderlands 3 they complain about too much space and not enough content
jack kinda returns in 3 he will be in 4 but not exactly him i dont think this is an issue at all hes a fun character everyone likes to see him being in 4 would just be better i think
The biggest problem with borderlands after BL2 is the writing. The writers are so fucming lobotomized that they thing "Reference 21st century meme, game good"
There is a hint of Jack coming back - a couple. They are indirect. We don't know if all of Nakyama's samples were destroyed. Timothy still exists with Jack's DNA (which he was "injected" with - sheesh), and my favorite - Jack's consciousness in Rhys. OK, hear me out. In the Krieg DLC, they played with the notion of separating Krieg's consciousness into two parts. What if the situation of needing more Vault Hunters is so dire they need to "resurrect" Jack? We still don't know what all he saw when he understood everything in TPS. Maybe Tannis finds a way to isolate his consciousness...or maybe I give the writers too much credit and I should have one of their jobs. What do you think?
1 like = 1 Prayer For The Writers To Not Do A Terrible Job With Borderlands 4
Hey who are u??? Why are u just all up in my feed on RUclips do I need to subscribe or something with this amazing content this should be outlawed
My take is remaster and add in NEW events for BL2. You can save Roland and you can spare/save Jack. But those are CANON events that make BL2 BL2.
Or make short BL game AWAAAY from the main story with soo much good little things:
-You have an NPC companion with a competent AI that'll help and interact with your character in and outside of a cutscene or action sequence.
-make the companion characters AI have a karma rating that'll play a big role in the players ending. Like
>give them legendaries and good gear = good ending
>give them crap guns and bad loot = bad ending + they'll steal your guns from your inventory.
Since it's a short game, I'd make this side story BL game a rogue like with 5 chapters and 9 levels.
Grinding for good loot will be thrown out the window in favor of making do with the rng loot that'll be awarded to you and the companion character at the end of each level and chapter and so on...
This is such and anti-thesis to BL main end goal of hoarding good loot, for the sake of replayability and character building. Oh and this is all to MAKE a character interact with you as much as handsome jack did in BL2, but the way that character will turn out, will be at the mercy of the players play through.
Borderlands 4 antagonists: a tiktoker, elon musk, and Colleen Ballinger. Inb4 catboi protag
Handsome Jack is only really a problem for Gearbox because their writers simply seem not good enough writers to make a character even remotely as good as Jack. Whatever happened to the writing team between 2 and 3 has been such a massive downgrade
Say what you want about Wonderlands but The Dragon Lord is proof that is not true. And despite all of the games problems he is actually the first bad guy to seem like he wasn't living in Handsome Jack's shadow or Handsome Jack archetype with a twin who is also a Handsome Jack archetype with a business partner buddy who is a Handsome Jack archetype.
Honestly I think the campaign was a misfortunate fluke, most the DLC stories proves that.
I just finished the Guns and Tentacle DLC and it was a ton of fun for me.
I think the only thing to make a good villain for the next BL game is turning someone of the vault hunters evil and make him the main villain...lets say...bad lilith?
@@sirdave2985 getting to kill Lilith? Good. That would be 100% worth playing, simply for that alone.
bl3's lead writer admitted that like, 2 years before the game released they had basically designed the entire game/story up to that point with them bringing handsome Jack back again. They then started watching videos/reddit posts/their own forum posts checking to see what the community might want or not want in the next game that would be possible for them to change. They then realized that literally everybody was saying that they didn't want handsome jack to come back from the dead again. So they basically scrapped all of the story work they had done up to that point and had to start over from scratch. And when you think about how the main story of a game influences the environments, character motivations, side quests, items, etc. They essentially had to make 70% of bl3 in less than 2 years.
"Somehow... Handsome Jack has returned."
- Borderlands 4, The Rise of Mordecai
And ava being the main hero
Lmao 😂
I mean he is in AI form in the Handsome Jackhammers SMG and always threatening you to release him.
Timothy Lawrence is a great character that can return, he is very different from Jack, despite "being" him. He should be allowed to return occasionally as his own character. Krieg got done dirty in base BL3, but his character in the the DLC was done so perfectly, the expansion of his story and him coming to terms with himself was smart and you could tell the writers did that from the heart. Shoehorning Jack back into the story through Rhys would be a mistake, his story is done, we know everything about him and how far he went, and even in BL3 we get the final pieces of his life, and Angel's broken life. If any character's motives deserve to show back up, show us the TRUE Eridians. We have only seen The Watcher...twice in TPS, and even then we have no idea what their goal was since Gearbox hasn't followed up on that story line at all yet. Spin-offs aside, there is only so much left to do with this universe. Possibly deal with the Eridians for good, then what? There would be no more Sirens, no more Vaults, no more borderworlds to explore, no more promise of adventure. Nekrotefayo was kinda disappointing, bring us to the Eridian home world just to have..no Eridians? There's is still so many unanswered questions that will probably be dropped again in favor of trying to pump out some more schlock like the Calypso Twins.
well jack coming back through rhys could explain the atrocious character assassination they did in new tales, but i agree, that would be really stupid. i would love to see kreig come back as a playable character with his mind now in sync with his psycho self, that would yield interested playstyle i think. but what they really need to do is involve the vault hunters you play in the cutscenes, cuz that to me is bl3 real failure, the story happens infront of us and what do we do? watch things happen and not lend a single finger to help? like wtf gearbox.
Everyone but Zero got done dirty by BL3.
@@Aqsticgod yea this cutscene problem is a major one, player just dont feel lika a part of the story
theres only one cutscene, where you really are present --- its when one of the villains hold you in phaselock (and thats it, no more interaction)
while i do think the writers should have elaborated more throughly one the slag experimentation and general torture Hyperion and Dr. Benedict did to Krieg, i thought it was a brilliant and nuanced move to have Kreigs past truly gone and have Kreig make peace with himself and move on
I don't think we know Jack...not everything anyway.
It truly scares me that there’s a chance that Gearbox will butcher Jack’s character if they bring him back, I don’t want another Callipso twins
Keeping Jack would definitely be a mistake, and I bet the regretted killing him more than anything. What I think they need to do would be another game before the climax we've been waiting for, but this time it must be completely absent of the characters we already know. Since they failed with B3 they need another go to prove that they're good enough to handle the payoff they've been building up to. Something back to basics; treasure hunters roaming a wilderness plagued by monsters, madmen, and (para)military.
So basically... Borderlands 3
@@fredcasdensworld Hmmm, let's see. Lilith, Mordecai, Tannis, Maya, Claptrap, counting DLC Krieg and Jack, and on and on. What, do you think that just because the big villains and a focused side-character were new it suddenly qualifies as "completely absent"?
Handsome Jack in Bl2: INCREDIBLE!!!
Handsome Jack in the pre sequel: Cool backstory, well done
Handsome Jack in Tales: Didn't need to be there but Rhys cannonically gets rid of him so it's fine
Handsome Jack in Bl3: Okay stop
Handsome Jack in Bl4: I think it would retroactively make him bad in everything else
HE HAD A CONNECTION TO PROFESER NAKAYAMA SO YEAH HE NEEDED TO BE THERE IT ONLY MAKES SENSE GVEN HOW OBSSESED THE PROFESER WAS WITH JACK
It's the same problem that Bethesda has in Fallout series.
They just can't stop putting Enclave and Brotherhood of Steel into every goddamn game in a major role.
Handsome Jack kinda fit into Tales tbh....in pre sequel there was already scientists cloning handsome jack (albeit failure compared to the ai) it's not far fetched to assume that the most paranoid man in the cosmos would have artificial clones by the time bl2 comes around.
Tales one is Cap he was great in Tales, and he created the “everyone thinks their the hero of their own story” quote
i personally disagree with tales, i think he was perfect there. his speech at the helios crash site is quite possibly his crowning scene.
Maybe if they made a villian that was good they would use him less
Yup. I personally thought the camp so twins where going to be interesting but they blew it with them 🙃
Handsome Jack got gradually staler every time he was reintroduced after BL2. Though none of his appearances were weak or dull, the character really started to run out of story.
To me, TFTBL1 closed his chapter for good and I don't want him to return. They'll just butcher him and probably tie his success even more to Moxxi... "somehow Jack returned"... christ.
the writers need to not write modern day memes into the game. They wrote bl3 like 3-4 years before its release, and they used too much "disposable comedy" to make 90% of the jokes in the game. All they have to do is make the world just a little less goofy when necessary.
New tales from the borderlands makes me think they aren't capable of making serious moments anymore
I mean, they already have "Hero" Jack in Timothy.
Handsome Jack's dead.
Mabe just have Tim act as "reformed" Jack to the new villains.
His character always struck me as Jack's "could have been". A Jack before be was Handsome, that hero who saved Elpis and actually did everything to protect Angel. If Jack's "one bad day" made him Batman instead of Joker.
You could have him comment on Jack's actions, comparing Handsome's actions to their own and trying to turn antagonists from the path of evil through semi-experience.
Gearbox can have it's cake and eat it too.
Handsome's still dead, but Jack still lives.
Mabe the DNA of Jack Timothy has was truly the "last bit of good" Handsome had in him and now Tim is trying to carve out a new life for himself before getting sucked into the vault wars.
He knows what is in them.
He knows what happens when people have that power.
He knows the madness and destruction the vaults cause.
Hell, he could be working with Rhys and Fiona to open/guard vaults to stop another Pandora from happening.
Idk, just spitballing, but Tim could be used as an excellent narrative tool. A weird dynamic of an irredeemable but sympathetic villain becoming a redeemed hero and using his experience in villainy and to dissuade others from it.
Hell, if Gearbox is hellbent on having Ava as the new MC, have Tim prevent her from becoming Handsome Jack, when her actions, like Lillith's, were going too far. I mean, he's got Jack's DNA in him and is a cool dude already, why not have him act as an "adoptive father/mentor". Tim trying to prove he isn't Jack by not being a dick. Handsome really did love his daughter, but that love was buried over a mountain of trauma and grief. Mabe have that tiny part of Jack amped up to 11 in BL4?
Idk, that and the visual of Tim going out like Rolland by the new villain post-arc would is hilarious, disturbing and depressing. Laugh crying moment basically.
It seems like a good idea but it would be a fine line
I honestly think one of the best things they can do is to go back to BL2. Revamp the game with modern fighting mechanics. Remaster the BL2 Campaign. But... Make a new campaign where you end up working for Jack. The Siren would be Angel. Nisha would make a return and so on. I like to imagine Angel would be against fighting the Crimson Raiders. But slowly turns to the dark side and agrees with her father by the end.
I like the idea of fighting against the VH's you play as in BL1 & BL2. Especially Lilith. Who has gone from an alright character to an obnoxious one throughout the past decade.
Yep remaster and add in NEW events for BL2. You can save Roland and you can spare/save Jack. But those are CANON events that make BL2 BL2.
Or make short BL game AWAAAY from the main story with soo much good little things:
-You have an NPC companion with a competent AI that'll help and interact with your character in and outside of a cutscene or action sequence.
-make the companion characters AI have a karma rating that'll play a big role in the players ending. Like
>give them legendaries and good gear = good ending
>give them crap guns and bad loot = bad ending + they'll steal your guns from your inventory.
Since it's a short game, I'd make this side story BL game a rogue like with 5 chapters and 9 levels.
Grinding for good loot will be thrown out the window in favor of making do with the rng loot that'll be awarded to you and the companion character at the end of each level and chapter and so on...
This is such and anti-thesis to BL main end goal of hoarding good loot, for the sake of replayability and character building. Oh and this is all to MAKE a character interact with you as much as handsome jack did in BL2, but the way that character will turn out, will be at the mercy of the players play through.
In my opinion, having jack in borderlands 3 as DLC is a good idea, it gives them a good reason to give the fans the borderlands 2 flavour in the borderlands 3 enginee, I loved it. Especially when timmothy does the jack impression
It's always good to know what other people think of the situation, If you liked Him in BL3 power to ya!
Hearing Timothy impersonate Jack genuinely FEELS like Jack sometimes.
I remember when I played through the Handsome Jackpot with my sister she thought Timothy was going to become Jack or something once he had the outfit and all.
I liked Fl4k, he was as done with bullshit as i was throughout my playthrough
I heard and thought about a theory of the theme for the next game. The borderlands war, that erupts because someone opens up a relic more ancient than the Eridians which brings back ALL of the dead, thus the entire universe would be at war. This could introduce the Eridians, original Sirens etc. but also bring back all the previous world goods and evils. The main story probably revolving around there being too many sirens, the universe collapsing because and to resolve it by resetting the entirity of Borderlands.
Now in this scenario, I think bringing Jack back would be a good thing, because he most certainly wouldn’t be the main focus of the game, maybe it’d end up in a situation of “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” and team up with our Crimson Raiders.
It could finally also bring back the dream of all Vault Hunters being playable in one game, redeeming the mess of Borderlands 3 by making the characters more redefined, memorable and likable. Now, it would most likely be a nightmare to write, code and execute properly and gameplay wise to balance and design.
In the end, it will most likely not go in this direction and we’ll have to suffer through another Handsome Jack wannabe villian who’ll be even more mushed down into a “whacky” and “bizarre” one sided character
This would honestly be perfect having everyone back and going in this universal war direction and they should probably just end the series after the next game if they do this right. Sounds too good to be true, I miss Jack and Roland.😢
i honestly believe they will use another weapon manufacturers ceo or other important figure of that group as the villain, since a few of them, no matter if it makes sense or not, have been used as villains. bl1 was atlas, 2 was hyperion and fight for sanctuary was dahl, 3 was cov/bandit and maliwan, new tales was tediore, maybe more that dont pop up to mind right now. i'd say dahl has a really good shot for being the big bad in bl4
I mean if you count Zarpedon from the pre sequel, Dahl was a big part of that, from the beginning to the point where Zarpedon dies though that was it, there wasn't a "main" villain in that game.
Yeah, they'll probably make just make Mr. Torgue the big bad guy.
@@grben9959nah make him a playable vault hunter.
If gearbox does decide to bring back Handsome Jack, the only thing that I would want is for him to finally be the hero he always wanted to be and be an actual good guy, like he could do an uno reverse card, which I think would be good enough of a closure for him so they can no longer being him back hopefully, oh and also make sure he does die in the end too so you know he physically can not comeback without that small chip he was captured in
4:30 My brother in Christ, it’s Mr. Torgue, he was a mushy caricature of Hulk Hogan from the start
Honestly he is a amazing character
Borderlands 3 and wonderlands felt like it was made during the writers strike
god, Vasquez would've been a great mainline villain, probably a perfect successor to Handsome Jack.
The only problem is the fan boys obsessed over Jack. Was he a good villain? Yes. Was he SOOOOOOOO good every other one is no where as good. No, not even close.
Jack is Overrated.
Funny that in Borderlands 3, the best content, IMHO, was Moxxi's Heist. Putting Moxxi together with Timothy was a great story with a great ending. They should have made it Borderlands 3 and given us the crap that was Borderlands 3 as some kind of DLC. FusterCluck was good too, but not at the level of Moxxi's Heist. Loved the Video.
For some reason when I first beat it at the end when Timothy is running out before he did the freeze frame jump I was sorta expecting that his head would just blow up from the bomb for some reason
It is definitely crazy to say that besides Jack throughout all of Borderlands, I can only think of ONE singular villain I resonated with similarly, Knoxx, however ironically General Knoxx fills the EXACT same role as Jack does but in his own DLC, even doing similar shit like giving you crap over the ECHO. Buuuut that doesn't take away from his dry can't be fucked anymore attitude to everything, Knoxx may have been a villain from years ago but man is he still as good a one as Jack albeit for a much shorter time with less fleshing out.
I pray they do Jack the GODDAMN justice a hero like him deserves. But seriously they have such a well written character who has now been fully fleshed out, if they pull some Palpatine shit and do a "Somehow he's back" manoeuvre on us my God they have no respect for us as the fans anymore, (and if they DO bring him back and its good I literally don't know how they would do that) Borderlands 3 was a gargantuan smack in the face still to this day the ONE redeeming quality of that game is the Vault Hunters, the skill trees/personalities of the main lot really did carry the weight of that games enormous shit it took on Borderlands as a whole.
In terms of writing:
Borderlands is okay
Borderlands 2 is legendary
Borderlands TPS is eh (Claptastic Voyage was pretty good)
Tales from the Borderlands is great
Commander Lillith sucked
Borderlands 3 sucked
Wonderlands sucked
New Tales from the Borderlands sucked
Gearbox really hasn't made anything good since 2015, knowing the leadership at Gearbox and Taketwo, I am going to say that if you are in any way shape or form hoping for something better to come along, you are setting yourself up for heartbreak
Borderlands PEAKED TOO HARD ON 2 and tales from the borderlands is the last greatest story we'll get, story wise.
Gearbox doesn't deserve to make anything out of borderlands since then, until they make a new game that can replace borderlands THEN they can make another borderlands entry.
Borderlands and story kekW . If thay create bl4 and hopefully with no unneded agenda ill buy it just to have fun inside of the game .If game and humor with easter egs are tahre ill play it . Story is a filler in this game imho .
DAHL should be the bad guy and they come back to harvest the new resources on Pandora
If Jack was in every videogame I wouldn’t mind
Now I want Handsome Jack in Tony Hawk's pro skater
Just like Isaac Clarke
He’d probably fit in Cyberpunk 2077
Hows about they bring back commandant steele and flesh her character out more.
Didn’t the destroyer literally kill her?
I still think jack didn't actually die and that was another one of his doppelgangers who awakens the warrior it been said he would never truly face you in a fight
I would love if handsome jack comes back
Wouldn’t make sense as 1. We literally see the scar on his real face (the mask being removed didn’t explode as well) 2. The thing happens at the casino when he died meaning it was the real one. 3. Why would he give a body double the honor of waking the warrior especially when the real one would have to do it to control it. Also with the one thing you said sure normally he wouldn’t face you but you kinda forced him.
Alright, this is exactly what uve been saying about his overuse of Jack and how they go about the characters. reducing them so much that its ruining their characters and turning them inyo jokes of their past selves.
There is a name for this phenomenon:Flanderization.
I hope this helps for the future.
technically jack doesnt appear in the weird BL1 mobile RTS/Tower Defense thing that like two people played
but... nobody talks about that
theres alao the old Mount Jackmore teaser game that he appeared in tho do it all balances out
It's honestly a little sad that Balex of all characters is the most memorable from Borderlands 3, and he's a friggin' AI from Tediore.
i don't even remember most of the characters in BL3 the game was really unmemorable and forgettable, at least the base game though, the DLCs were a lot better.
@@Raindrop511Typhoon DeLeon and Wainwright jacobs were cool characters i think. Looking back i don't feel like they introduced a whole lot of new characters in 3.
So... you're entire premise is based on the assumption there aren't people who enjoy the narrative seen in the Borderlands franchise.... that's pretty sad.
It's always good to know other peoples opinion that's why I make these types of videos, thanks for the criticism!
They're making a Borderlands movie, but if they make a sequel, does anybody else think that Ryan Reynolds would make a good live action Handsome Jack?
Trueee
Personally I would like to see Glenn Howerton. Dennis Reynolds from Always Sunny already feels like a Handsome Jack-esque character
i loved clay wish he gets expanded on theres so much potential
I think Handsome Jack as a villain has been used well, but yeah, if he got put into bl4 it wouldn't make any sense, given we know there's no more ai backups of him in existance. Think they should just give us the vault war or a prep to it and give us some more vault hunters, I wanna have a game that lets us play as new vault hunters as well as vault hunters past, would be really cool
playing a 4th siren power is a must
@@Aqsticgod truuuue, maybe tannis? I wanna find the 7th, as much as it's discouraged lore wise
General Knoxx was also a good villain. You are 100% right though.
mark it
they will bring jack back to have "the best" but by doing that they will just ruin everything
Very well made video, deserves a sub. And more attention
I think jacks return would be interesting,
My idea is jack helped rhys rebuild atlas with his experience as a CEO then in some spin off rhys loses control of his body and jack takes over and boom bl4
Hes gonna cone back cause he can technically be counted as atill alive due to his body doubles and memory chips & its weird how i never think of guitar solos when thinking of Mr.TORGUE i think... EXPLOSIONS!!??!?
I Feel like that was the exact reason gearbox decided on having the doppelgangers and Rhys' mindfuckery, so if they wanted to bring him back, they wouldn't have to reach far to grab a legitimate reason
The body doubles wouldn’t make sense as when he died his face literally had the scar under the mask (also removing the mask didn’t blow his face up) and clearly it was the real one if his death caused the thing at the casino to happen. Also he had to be the one to wake the warrior to control it. And even if it didn’t matter who woke it knowing his personality he would still want to be the one to wake it.
@@Greenhawk4Yep it was 1000% supposed to be the real jack in the vault at the end of borderlands 2. If they change that now it is a retcon, a very bad one at that.
The Problem is, jack was to big. One of the best villans i ever seen in videogames. And its almost impossible to top him as an Antagonist.
Was he really the bad guy??? In TPS it pretty much justified his actions. 3 everyone acts all high and mighty trashing jack like they had nothing to do pushing him to the edge.
@@themachoechidnaugandarandy7583 TPS justified his hatred towards the crimson raiders but not his actions The guy locked his own daughter up in a chamber before he ever met a vault hunter, and tried to make Pandora his planet wide north Korea with a vault monster to keep everyone else in check. He was a lunatic from the moment he found out that his daughter is a siren
Gearbox: **setting up the war prophesized in presequel**
Borderlands fans: "How are they going to bring back Jack"
Bringing Jack back is one of those "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" type scenarios. Jack is the most successful and popular villain in the series, they knocked it so far out of the park in Borderlands 2 that by killing him off they set themselves up for failure if they were to try to outdo him in 3. They kinda had the right idea in having the next villain just kinda be its own standalone thing, but the direction they took that idea in just wasn't... Good.
Because Jack was killed off though, that puts them in a pickle for if they ever want to genuinely commit to bringing him back. If they go ahead with it, they are in a position where they are going to have to absolutely nail it. He can't just be coming back in some easily predictable way, it needs to be big, bold, completely out of left field, and feel like something Jack would and could actually do without getting too crazy or convoluted. They are also going to need to ramp up his threat level without that coming off as too absurd either. If they don't completely nail it, it's going to fall flat and just turn the franchise into an even bigger embarrassment than they've already made it into.
Regardless of how it could be done though, there's a really big potential problem in doing it which is that it limits the series growth moving forward. As long as the series remains stuck having to rely on Jack, it can't grow into anything more than that. A better direction I think would be to just focus on the Eridian War plotline. Rather than focusing on a specific villain, have the "bad guys" be the vault monsters that are getting unleashed around the galaxy. Really amp these things up, make it so that these vault monsters are bigger and more dangerous than anything we have ever encountered before, really make these things forces of nature that require whole armies of Vault Hunters to stop them. Really lean into that war vibe that Pre-Sequel was hyping up.
The story could just be that too many vaults have been opened up, causing the entire vault network to become unstable. Maybe the vaults weren't just designed to lock away monsters such as the Destroyer, but rather the entire combined network serves to lock away even bigger and badder monsters that grow stronger with every vault that gets opened. Now these bigger, badder monsters are starting to break free, and they really do need all the Vault Hunters they can get to put a stop to them and save the galaxy.
They do need to drop Jack I feel you, the handsome jackpot was the last “passable” excuse to use him. But I seriously think they need to stop with the “woke/washed” characters, they should just be what we fell in love with, BL2 wasn’t crass or cancelable by todays standards so idk why they diverged so much
I actually liked the First Vault Hunter guy, from BL 3. Aside from that I think the Calypso twins concept had some really good elements to it and was decently executed. I think they would came out way better if the rest of the story wasn't dogshit. F*cking lolerai, or the cowboy? or pretty much everything else. They really dropped the ball on this game's narrative.
Rhys possessed by Jack doesn't sound too bad actually, but i just KNOW they will screw up the characters and writing, I mean Rhys in the new tales game acted more like Jack than himself with how bad he was written.
We saw Timothy taking on Jack traits due to the DNA, so MAYBE he will end up becoming Jack somehow.
I feel like they could bring Jack back by easing him back. In like for example the 4th game. Like bring him back after a few dlcs later after they have laid some heavy ground work to hint his return or in a 5th game after all the dlcs to the 4th game laid the ground work for his return and make that a base game plot only. Like maybe have Jack not be how he was in the second game. Maybe instead of fighting him we work with him to return him to his seat of power and he ends up either leaving or just settles somewhere. Either one of these would be a satisfying way at least for me that they could logically do it.
They did plan on Jack being back in BL3. They changed the plan very last minute you can even find models for jack statues on atlas in the code of the game so its not a stretch to still bring him back.
Ykw, the original borderlands to the pre-sequel had honestly good story but borderlands 3? Not as much, although the game DOES have new mechanics, and new stuff, the story is just like from: "ok honestly good introduction sequence" to: "what a load of garbage" to: "WTF is the story telling?!"
They should’ve definitely made Jack the main villain in Borderlands 3. We needed more of his humor and whit. I’m less confident than ever we will get the Borderlands of old we know and love. As far as I’m concerned this series is dead.
Jack literally owned Hyperion aka respond machines .. I pray Jack comes back and all the vault hunters are hunting for him through out the cosmos! Would be nice story tbh
Even though he doesn’t appear in BL1, Borderlands was Jack’s story. Although he was never even conceptualized in 1, he puppeteered Angel to make the original 4 vault hunters open the vault. Once he died and original Tales finished, it lost its main character. It’s very similar to when Rick was taken out of The Walking Dead, the show lost its direction but I heard that the movies with him in it is really good. At the time BL3 was hinted at, I hoped they had a cool, new big baddie but they were incredibly mediocre but now I wish they milked Jack more because he’s much better than the twins. Imo, Borderlands died when Jack did.
a character from a previous game is NEVER the problem. The bad writters are. They never succeeded to make new ones better. Rhys and characters from the telltales games are shadows of themselves, same goes for the cast of the 1 and 2 games.... So not much to go on.
Jack is The Joker, Darth Vader, Sephiroth and Voldemort. He sets the bar when it comes to villains and best embodies the spirit of Borderlands. No other villain will match him in the series. Personally I want more Jack, but if they insist on a new villain, their best chance is with a 'serious threat with a sympathetic cause' type like Bane or Thanos.
I also don't think it would be hard to bring Jack back, he won and got the H-Source in TPS. Have him put his conscious in the Hyperion network and let him digistruct himself. Heck you can even make it where Jack can only come back into a Claptrap unit.
I always felt that the reason we won't get a good villain like jack is because we put him on a pedestal like he is handsome jack one of the best villains in gaming but because we put him high up gearbox try to use that
if they return handsome jack and keep the people who wrote borderlands 3 you can be almost sure they are gonna kill the franchise lol
Inb4... Borderlands 4
Rhys goes Krieg from fighting against Jack for all this time
I wouldn't mind if Jack came back in borderlands 4. Just write him a good part. I mean write him a part the same caliber as they did in borderlands 2. Most of the dialog in borderlands 3 is just awful, not funny and/or is just dumb as f*ck. Those people should never write for a borderlands game, ever. Borderlands 2 should be the absolute standard for first-person borderlands games and looter shooters in general. Borderlands 2 writing should be the standard for all borderlands games, in my personal opinion. That may be more of a hot take than anything.
if they write Handsome Jack back in BL4 in some stupid way...I'm gonna get angry.
They could make it so since Timothy has Jacks DNA it would eventually take him over completely leading to him becoming evil like Jack and the villain of BL4
0:45 Palpatine did it, so why not?
2:15 That is a tasty Plasma Caster! That's one of the super-rare ones, right? Pearlescent, maybe?
4:59 Why does Krieg, who's right-handed, wear a left-handed gas mask (see also the TF2 Pyro)? His right eye appears to be covered up. Is he missing it? If so, then he should shoot left-handed. I quit watching 'The Walking Dead' because they kept screwing that up. Like, half the character specifically lose their right eyes, yet they continue shooting right-handed like idiots.
5:10 Sir Hammerlock should shoot left-handed and should sling weapons on his back in left-handed configuration like he did in Borderlands 2. He still held guns right-handed for no reason, but only because programmers don't pay attention to details like they oughtta. Also, the gun in that back-scabbard should be facing lever-up. So if he's going to sling it right-handed, he should at least put the gun in there the right way. Otherwise, keep it as it is, but turn it over to left-handed configuration (and actually shoot left-handed). I know, I know. Ellie mentions something about all the left-handed guns getting sucked out into space. Most of the guns are ambidextrous. The only ones that are specifically right-handed are side-ejecting bullpups.
5:21 Again, why does he shoot right-handed? And if he shoots right-handed, then why does he sling long guns on his back in left-handed configuration? Third-person games get this wrong all the time.
6:19 Teacupping a single-action revolver while cocking the hammer with the thumb of the shooting hand?! Are we EVER going to see single-action revolvers in an FPS game that are cocked using the cross-thumb technique? That's the preferred technique for single-action revolvers (and is ONLY useful with single-action revolvers).
7:06 How do you fire more than two shots out of a breach-loaded double-barrel shotgun? It's different if it's a "tandem" or "duplex" system with all parts duplicated (twin receivers, barrels, magazines, etc.). BL3 Jakobs shotguns can have double barrels and can feed from a box mag. Of course, they screwed that up by having it be a single box mag instead of two of them clamped together.
9:06 Caustic Caverns Ambient
The thing is tho because they clearly can write well, bl3 has some genius writing in the echo logs and every APART from the main campaign, the only thing bl3's story fell flat on was excecution. Rose is amazing, Eleanor was amazing, Clay, Wainright, Zane, Fl4k, all amazingly written characters. And for those who say handsome jack is the only good villain, General Knoxx was fantastic, Zarpedon was intruiging. It's just the fact that Gearbox has become a money making shill for Randy and its obvious. Thats why new tales exists, its milking what exists instead of making something new. The DLC's for bl3 are fantastic because they are fundementally new ideas for the series that work well.
Bro, Jack has been a problem for Borderlands ever since he died in 2. Like, I loathe the fact these writers can't get even CLOSE to the stroke of genius they had, and so they keep digging out his poor face from the dirt again and again. He's constantly been showing up. Frankly, every new 'here's Jack again' moment just makes me loathe the writing more. Not the character himself, but just the fact these supposed paid writers can not just move on and find something else that's good. Heck, just make another character LIKE him, but just... let the man rest for once.
We needed Timothy and there was nothing wrong with Digijack. And yeah digiJack is still alive in a gun which in my opinion deserves a real buff. The issues arise when you get Maya's death. Everything about that assassinated the main story and forced players to see the real problem with the game. The devs forgot how they handled Roland. You are literally in the same room when Roland died but things happened so fast you the player being used as the camera were made to feel helpless despite being part of the cinematic. Maya's death you are literally in the room but completely ignored like you aren't there.
Then the twins and Katagawa. Those 3 are the biggest problema with BL3 villians. They all were given the handsome Jack Archetype without actually being Handsome Jack. All 3 were bad guys who some what treated you or one of your helpers as best friends while trying to destroy everything you love and represent. Those 3 felt so much lesser because of that.
Personally if the bad guys are treated like their own thing with new personalities instead of trying to live up to Handsome Jack we could see a return to what is truly great about Borderlands. A prime example being despo Wonderlands flaws the Dragon Lord himself was actually a good villain with his own unique personality. If more bad guys felt unique like this then a return of Timothy or a return of Handsome Jack as a side character wouldn't be so much of a problem even if jack is the Digijack pulled from The Handsome Jackhammer gun line.
The AI is in Handsome Jack Hammer... But ofcourse that gun isn't part of of the Story.
Kinda like GenIVIV Should be put into Messy Breakup shield by Marcus.
I personally thought that the Dragonlord was a good antagonist for Wonderlands. Better than the twins, but not Jack
Honestly i think jack had a good send off to bring him back whould be weird and i personally like the twins they gave a little more info about sirens typhoon because thats there dad people like to say there annoying and yes there supposed to be there the annoying streamers that talk shit and asks for subs from there chat Jack was also annoying just in a different way
Finally, someone agrees with me! Please. No more Jack. Anything but Jack.
(He's next to irrelevant in my rewrite lolllllll)
(Also kinda irrelevant but do you ever plan on making a Discord server?)
bl3 needed like, idk story seasons or something, there was way too much for just 1 campaign and it felt rushed
also typhon dying was fucking awful narratively and for the potential sequel, there was so much they could've done with him i feel
They need to overhaul the whole story cuz then they can undo their mistakes lol its told by Marcus (who isnt the most reliable source) 😅 they could bring back Handsome jack, Maya, an perhaps flesh out the story from TPS .
Bamaxx could have been removed and nothing in the story would have changed I'm sorry.
They could have brought back axton instead of joke character number 95
Jack was not in borderlands 3 it was echo recording that played he died in borderlands 2 I know this because I shot him In The face with a jacops double barrel stage coach shotgun
The twins on paper were really good its just the execution was terrible I think gearbox knows theyre fucked because the only other villain I hated besides Jack was Lilith lol and that was 2kangaroo
Borderlands 3 has the fallout 4 problem of the story of the story game being so shit that the better gameplay and quality of life improvements dont make up for the story being bad. Both games have good things going for it but the story of each game falling short to the others make it so I loathe playing it and would rather play the other games in the franchise instead. I hope borderlands 4 will not have this problem in general
Fun fact: Handsome Jack is also in bl3 as a legendary gun. gun name Handsome Jackhammer
In tales Rhys got rid of Jack making his character arc better he was not ok with Jack being in his conscience but he did kinda feed into Jack when he wanted to benefit from him it was only towards the end when he realized that his friends meant more to him than power and purged Jack out of his brain seeing as though most of that character development was retconed in new tales and borderlands 3 i wouldn't be surprised if they didn't just say no rhys didn't get rid of Jack and in fact he got infected by Jack and was secretly controlled the whole time hints why Rhys is completely different than how he was at the end of tales and more nonsensical and assholeish in bl3 and new tales setting up the return of characters from tales and the ruining of more beloved characters because gear box just loves doing that
Jack has two doppelgänger named Timothy There’s Timothy dopplemen and Lawrence
There's a problem with your problem, yeah they should move on from jack but what you didn't answer was can they
I really like FL4K but I see your angle on the new characters
I do like the new vault hunters, I should've clarified that more my bad
@@LFXGaming No you're fine! It was a good vid
Rhys is acting more like Jack in New tales but.. i think its better to just say he rubbed of just a bit
Everyone I met either only plays borderlands 2 or they have played Minecraft at least once and borderlands 3 they complain about too much space and not enough content
Nah I miss Jack I want him back 😭😭, I also still don't agree with Roland being killed off I wish Jack had killed Lilith in 2.
Actually Jack is the best what happened to Borderlands. too much ugly and boring characters
Agree with everything you said. That said I'll still take them bringing back Jack any day over the Tyreen and Troy.
I think we need to, instead of reusing Jack, we need to evaluate what made General Knoxx great. He was the O.G. great villain.
It's the peaple not the games just because someone says something about games doesn't mean don't experience it for yourself is lame.
jack kinda returns in 3 he will be in 4 but not exactly him i dont think this is an issue at all hes a fun character everyone likes to see him being in 4 would just be better i think
The writers were not brought back for BL3 lol guess they just had Randy write it himself lol
I can see this ryas fucking up so bad that he hunt down a copy of jack to help him and that what start the war.
What ever happened to Helena pierce? I used to rap that until my brother got sick of me and quit playing
2:12 idk, I kinda liked knoxx to be honest. But for the most part yeah their villains are crap
Dude if people actually played more than borderlands 2 they would be at least close to true fans not gonna lie...
Handsome Jack should only appear as images, or recordings you find. Let the guy stay dead.
Couldn't disagree more. Except most of the new cherecters are trash. Except for ice T
I hear this dude and all I can think of is the "you're a wizard harry" video from years ago
The biggest problem with borderlands after BL2 is the writing. The writers are so fucming lobotomized that they thing "Reference 21st century meme, game good"
Not one good villain except for jack and vasquez
General Knoxx 😏
There is a hint of Jack coming back - a couple. They are indirect. We don't know if all of Nakyama's samples were destroyed. Timothy still exists with Jack's DNA (which he was "injected" with - sheesh), and my favorite - Jack's consciousness in Rhys. OK, hear me out. In the Krieg DLC, they played with the notion of separating Krieg's consciousness into two parts. What if the situation of needing more Vault Hunters is so dire they need to "resurrect" Jack? We still don't know what all he saw when he understood everything in TPS. Maybe Tannis finds a way to isolate his consciousness...or maybe I give the writers too much credit and I should have one of their jobs. What do you think?
He clearly saw as far as the warrior and waking it.