Well presented video. I'm an old guy that has run a production shop for many years. Shapers have always been an important part of being able to produce a wide variety of work. They are well worth learning how to use and especially their safe operation. I've got 6 shapers. Some are setup to do only one operation. All but one has a power feed. Actually one has two power feeds so we don't have to take the time to change from horizontal to vertical. My most versatile shaper is a tilt spindle Gomad. It was bought to do curved crown molding but has been very good at many other things. In the US 1 1/4" spindles are by far the most common for production use. You can buy good used European made shapers for about the price of new Chinese. Since we have a molder and profile grinder we make our own corrugated knives for both the molder and shapers. For the home shop guy, he can do similar by using lock edge steel and hand grinding on a bench grinder. Hand ground knives are never fully balanced so a heavy shaper will handle them much better than a lightly made 3/4" spindle machine. Turn them slower and feed slower. Shaper heads are available with knives that can be adjusted in angle and heads that can be adjusted for the width of cut.
Hi Larry, thanks for the comment. I have a variable angle head as well as a couple adjustable groovers but the video was already getting too long! I use those all the time. I only have two shapers (a big Wadkin and a small one) but I would like another smaller one I think. Space will be an issue of course. I keep hearing great things about those Gomad machines!
I bought my Gomad tilt, used, quite a few years ago. $3000 in excellent condition. 3Phase, very heavy, over 2000#s. It has large dials for reading the tilt angle and the elevation. We've taken massive cuts with it using molder heads. I don't know how much power it has but more than enough. My first shaper was a little Delta that was set up to do just one operation, OK for very light cuts. Next was a Delta "heavy duty."@@DovetailTimberworks Not even close to heavy duty. Sold it to another fool and bought a new SAC TS80, very nice shaper, still have it many years later. Other shapers that I have that have all been very good: BMT, SCM (both Italian), A very old Moak set up for lock miter with 2 power feeds, Stegherr arch shaper. All have feeds except the BMT which is setup with stops for one operation.
I have an old Yates American shaper that was built about 1954. I bought the machine for not much. The top part of the spindle is 55 mm at the bearing area. The outside diameter of the top bearing is 125 mm. The spindle length in about 18" long and the diameter is about 2-1/4" The 1-1/4" part that threads into the spindle is about 7". It has a 5hp motor that never gets more than warm. What I find interesting is the spindle hangs from the top bearing and the bottom bearing can slide up and down as the spindle warms and cools. The oil the spindle runs in is quite thin. The spindle can swing an 8" cutter. While other shapers are broken down this shaper keeps delivering.
I have router bits and a shaper for hardwoods. The one advantage of the larger diameter tooling whether being a router bit or a shaper tooling is that the cutting edge of the larger diameter tool meets the wood at a smaller depth of cut to start with than a smaller diameter router cutter and with smaller depths of cut we have less tear out and a slower feed speed for the wood. The point of cut is gentler for the larger diameter. For each quarter revolution turn of a cutter the larger diameter is the way to go.
Brother, great content. I would love to see a video on your transition from "full time day job" to full time cabinetmaker (or however you term it). Want to learn more!
Hi,if I'm not wrong the main for the limiters are to avoid kickback. is it like that? Because I have a cutter head with those limiters and I didn't know what they were used for.I imagine they also cut less, right? You have to go slower, right? I appreciate your response, greetings!
The fact that they limit the chip size serves to limit the maximum bite they can take and thus they are less inclined to pull inwards too, but reduced likelihood and severity of kickback is the other main purpose. The theoretical maximum feed rate is technically lower with chip limited tooling, but you will be feeding so fast at that point that your surface finish (kmpi) will already be lousy. So in all PRACTICAL sense of the word, chip limited tooling does not limit feed rates.
Love my spindle moulder, doubles as a second router table too. Dont know why they have a bad rep anymore, its 95% similar to a router table and much safer. A table saw is more dangerous IMHO
I think it's the difference in the cost between bits and cutter heads... lot of people complain about cost of quality router bit, can't imagine if they saw cost of shaper cutters lol. Also another big one for hobbyists is footprint. Shapers take up space
Which one are you interested in? The whitehill tooling is available here, but I can point you more specifically to what I show if you want. www.whitehill-tools.com/
Hello! I do have a Jet spindle moulder, type 34Kx, but with only 4 speeds, 1500, 4000, 6000, 8000rpm/min. Isn't the 8000 rpm slow to use well the shaper? How do you see? Could you help me with that speeds? Thank you.
8000 is often too fast for larger tooling, but it depends on the head you're using. Best to listen to the manufacturer of the block after you have determined it can be run safely on your machine.
@@DovetailTimberworks Hello Brent, thanks for your reply. One last question if is possible, which one do you choose between this two shapers: Jet jws 34Kx (Eur:2.000.-) and Hammer F3 (Eur:3.500.-). The Hammer does have a bigger cast iron table + tilting spindle + tenoning table and a faster 10000rpm, the Jet only 8000rpm and certainly other 3 inferior speeds. Both motors has 2.2Kw output power. Please think a while and let me know please if Hammer is better than the Jet. Here is the link to the Hammer spindle moulder: www.felder-group.com/fg-en/products/spindle-moulders/spindle-moulder-f3.html Thank you!
Sorry for the delay, I get everything from here now. The steel is of higher quality. This is the head I would choose: www.whitehill-tools.com/catalogue.php?cid=2&c2id=60
Perdón por el retraso, ahora obtengo todo de esta compañía. El acero es de mayor calidad. Esta es la cabeza que elegiría: www.whitehill-tools.com/catalogue.php?cid=2&c2id=60
Many tools are made in America that are sold in Europe. They are not sold in America because of liability. If an American company produces a better quality product that is an admittance of liability for older products. There is a company that produces router bits in America and only sells them in Europe. They are incredibly safer and produce the same cut as what has been produced by manufacturers for decades.
Fantastic. I just got my shaper up and running in my college shop, and this is a wonderful presentation. Well done sir!
Well presented video. I'm an old guy that has run a production shop for many years. Shapers have always been an important part of being able to produce a wide variety of work. They are well worth learning how to use and especially their safe operation. I've got 6 shapers. Some are setup to do only one operation. All but one has a power feed. Actually one has two power feeds so we don't have to take the time to change from horizontal to vertical. My most versatile shaper is a tilt spindle Gomad. It was bought to do curved crown molding but has been very good at many other things. In the US 1 1/4" spindles are by far the most common for production use. You can buy good used European made shapers for about the price of new Chinese. Since we have a molder and profile grinder we make our own corrugated knives for both the molder and shapers. For the home shop guy, he can do similar by using lock edge steel and hand grinding on a bench grinder. Hand ground knives are never fully balanced so a heavy shaper will handle them much better than a lightly made 3/4" spindle machine. Turn them slower and feed slower. Shaper heads are available with knives that can be adjusted in angle and heads that can be adjusted for the width of cut.
Hi Larry, thanks for the comment. I have a variable angle head as well as a couple adjustable groovers but the video was already getting too long! I use those all the time. I only have two shapers (a big Wadkin and a small one) but I would like another smaller one I think. Space will be an issue of course. I keep hearing great things about those Gomad machines!
I bought my Gomad tilt, used, quite a few years ago. $3000 in excellent condition. 3Phase, very heavy, over 2000#s. It has large dials for reading the tilt angle and the elevation. We've taken massive cuts with it using molder heads. I don't know how much power it has but more than enough. My first shaper was a little Delta that was set up to do just one operation, OK for very light cuts. Next was a Delta "heavy duty."@@DovetailTimberworks Not even close to heavy duty. Sold it to another fool and bought a new SAC TS80, very nice shaper, still have it many years later. Other shapers that I have that have all been very good: BMT, SCM (both Italian), A very old Moak set up for lock miter with 2 power feeds, Stegherr arch shaper. All have feeds except the BMT which is setup with stops for one operation.
Sounds like you've got some great old "arn"!
I have an old Yates American shaper that was built about 1954. I bought the machine for not much. The top part of the spindle is 55 mm at the bearing area. The outside diameter of the top bearing is 125 mm. The spindle length in about 18" long and the diameter is about 2-1/4" The 1-1/4" part that threads into the spindle is about 7". It has a 5hp motor that never gets more than warm. What I find interesting is the spindle hangs from the top bearing and the bottom bearing can slide up and down as the spindle warms and cools. The oil the spindle runs in is quite thin. The spindle can swing an 8" cutter. While other shapers are broken down this shaper keeps delivering.
There is not very much information on the internet at all on this subject. Thank you sincerely for making this video!!
Thanks very much, I appreciate knowing it's helping folks!
I have router bits and a shaper for hardwoods. The one advantage of the larger diameter tooling whether being a router bit or a shaper tooling is that the cutting edge of the larger diameter tool meets the wood at a smaller depth of cut to start with than a smaller diameter router cutter and with smaller depths of cut we have less tear out and a slower feed speed for the wood. The point of cut is gentler for the larger diameter. For each quarter revolution turn of a cutter the larger diameter is the way to go.
Great info, thanks for sharing!
Thanks for the feedback, great to know these old videos are still helping folks!
@@DovetailTimberworks lol...they are timeless, not allot has changed in the shaper world other than more choices in cutters and segmented heads.
Thanks for the video. Very helpful
Appreciate hearing that, thank you!
Excellent, nice video there fella, lots of good info.
Brother, great content. I would love to see a video on your transition from "full time day job" to full time cabinetmaker (or however you term it). Want to learn more!
That's a cool idea! Lot of machine investments, but the biggest upgrade I need and am looking foreward to is the space to do proper work.
Hi,if I'm not wrong the main for the limiters are to avoid kickback. is it like that? Because I have a cutter head with those limiters and I didn't know what they were used for.I imagine they also cut less, right? You have to go slower, right? I appreciate your response, greetings!
The fact that they limit the chip size serves to limit the maximum bite they can take and thus they are less inclined to pull inwards too, but reduced likelihood and severity of kickback is the other main purpose. The theoretical maximum feed rate is technically lower with chip limited tooling, but you will be feeding so fast at that point that your surface finish (kmpi) will already be lousy. So in all PRACTICAL sense of the word, chip limited tooling does not limit feed rates.
@@DovetailTimberworks Thank you very much from Argentina!
Awesome presentation, I learned a tonne thanks
Thank you! I'm still new to all this and appreciate the feedback! B
Yep ditto - thanks a heap.
Love my spindle moulder, doubles as a second router table too. Dont know why they have a bad rep anymore, its 95% similar to a router table and much safer. A table saw is more dangerous IMHO
I think it's the difference in the cost between bits and cutter heads... lot of people complain about cost of quality router bit, can't imagine if they saw cost of shaper cutters lol. Also another big one for hobbyists is footprint. Shapers take up space
They are safer, just sound scarier!
Where can we order that?
Which one are you interested in? The whitehill tooling is available here, but I can point you more specifically to what I show if you want. www.whitehill-tools.com/
Good ideas
Hello! I do have a Jet spindle moulder, type 34Kx, but with only 4 speeds, 1500, 4000, 6000, 8000rpm/min. Isn't the 8000 rpm slow to use well the shaper? How do you see? Could you help me with that speeds? Thank you.
8000 is often too fast for larger tooling, but it depends on the head you're using. Best to listen to the manufacturer of the block after you have determined it can be run safely on your machine.
@@DovetailTimberworks Hello Brent, thanks for your reply. One last question if is possible, which one do you choose between this two shapers: Jet jws 34Kx (Eur:2.000.-) and Hammer F3 (Eur:3.500.-). The Hammer does have a bigger cast iron table + tilting spindle + tenoning table and a faster 10000rpm, the Jet only 8000rpm and certainly other 3 inferior speeds. Both motors has 2.2Kw output power. Please think a while and let me know please if Hammer is better than the Jet. Here is the link to the Hammer spindle moulder: www.felder-group.com/fg-en/products/spindle-moulders/spindle-moulder-f3.html
Thank you!
Quiero conprar un juego conpletos desas cuchillas donde icuanto cuestan
Sorry for the delay, I get everything from here now. The steel is of higher quality. This is the head I would choose: www.whitehill-tools.com/catalogue.php?cid=2&c2id=60
Perdón por el retraso, ahora obtengo todo de esta compañía. El acero es de mayor calidad. Esta es la cabeza que elegiría: www.whitehill-tools.com/catalogue.php?cid=2&c2id=60
Many tools are made in America that are sold in Europe. They are not sold in America because of liability. If an American company produces a better quality product that is an admittance of liability for older products. There is a company that produces router bits in America and only sells them in Europe. They are incredibly safer and produce the same cut as what has been produced by manufacturers for decades.
Very interesting thanks.
Appreciate the overview... And anyone who visits Jack gets an auto subscribe from me! Cheers from the Bruce Peninsula.
How are you
This are how much money
Sime pueden contestar porfabor
Jose Denis Aragon Picado www.cmtutensili.com/show_items.asp?pars=HK~~2~2~3
You are cute😊
The Cozy Cove Best comment so far!
Dovetail Timberworks I am planning on making a RUclips channel soon 😊
Good ideas
Thank you!