Making a Propane Burner even Hotter
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- Опубликовано: 6 апр 2017
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Previously, I build an easy to make, simple propane burner. It worked, but not great. Today, i'm making it great. Not only do I modify it a bit so i can adjust the air/fuel ratio, but i do something stupid and duck tape a hair dryer to it. Why? because more fire. That's why.
Turns out when you need more air, you can force it down the burner's throat. Who knew. Forced air propane burners are officially awesome. Also scary. But awesome.
The biggest improvement is capping off the back, and making some kind of sleeve to adjust the air hole openings.
Want my advice? I assume you do, since nobody except truly dedicated viewers ever read this far into the comments. My advice is don't do forced air propane burners. Stick with the normal kind. Forced air is just lots of over complication for what I assume isn't an appreciably hotter flame. I love rube goldberg devices as much as the next guy, but the thing is powered by gas. You don't want to plug the thing in, too.
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You need what is called a flame screen just before the outlet.
Your deadpan humor never gets old. Keep that quality content coming!
+noctem9 you got it!
My wife needs to see this. Finally, proof that overcomplicating something (an under appreciated talent) can be a good thing. "Awesomer".
A simple 90 degree bend just after your air intake helps the cas and air mix much better, it will also cause the gas and air to roll. Take a look at how some of the more experienced smiths set up air forced forges and you will see they all have a 90 degree bend on the burners.
good demonstration thanks for sharing such basics for floor level operators
thanks
You're welcome! Glad it was helpful
You are a seriously funny man. Only watched about 5 of your videos but I'll watch more. I don't know what your stressful day job is but I'm glad you can overcome ! Thanks for sharing 👍🏻
I did a similar thing with an air matress inflator to push the temperature high enough to melt copper and brass. My flare was a 1 1/2 inch to 2 inch adapter like yours, however I used a 2 1/2 inch car exhaust coupler with slits cut in one end, hammered in a little to meet the 2 inch black iron adapter, and tack welded on. Makes a great flame holder. Pulls a little extra air in through the slits. It glows red hot when operating.
I agree, your humor is right on target. I like how you bounce your ideas off the camera, aka the viewers.
HAHA! Love that you seem to approach these DIY projects a lot like I do. Also love that you're not afraid to share your failures as you iterate toward perfection. Fun stuff to watch!!
+Jonathan Bechtold if I hid the failures I wouldn't have much of a video left! Everybody has failures. Some people edit them out so they appear to know what they are doing. I think failures are fun to watch, so I leave them in.
I know right I did the exact same thing angling the holes with my drill but when I built my first screw up
Dont light it at the holes! U need to light it at the end where the cone u installed causes a low pressure zone. That's the purpose of the adapter u put on the end
Ya man, what he said
Also the holes aren't really needed, it will draw air from the back of the tube
Oh good I’m not the only one 😂
I am building a double one and you did just what I needed to see. Thnaks
I have heard that inserting a cup shaped piece of fine mesh, the same diameter as the inside diameter of the burner tube, into the end of the burner tube, just before the bell end of the burner will prevent the flame from travelling back down the burner tube. Of course you will need to ignite the burner at the hot end for this to work. If several pieces of mesh are used, the propane / air mix will be evened out and a more effective burn will be achieved. The principle is the same as was used for mesh covered miner's lamps in coal mines around the turn of the century (and probably before that.) As I said, I have never tried this but it sounds like it would work.
mesh covered miners lamp is called davy lamp. sir Humphry Davy discovered sodium, calcium, magnesium, strontium and barium.
At first, I was like "who is this fool!" Now I love your sense of humor and enjoy watching. Your like me using videos to make stuff, new subscriber!
I loved this!!! You're terribly funny. I loved the slight self deprecation being outweighed by the confident optimism in your next great idea💡!!!
THANK YOU!!!
You made my day!!! 😁
Same😂
Paul - Thank you. This was an issue I was currently having with my design and you helped me figure out how to alter it to make it work properly. It's a bit of a different design that uses a welding tip as a propane nozzle (so it could technically be changed out if I needed to alter the AF ratio). The only major downside is that it lacks a cut off valve at the torch, but it has an adjustable regulator with a flow gauge at the tank (and the hose is only 4' so I'm right next to it regardless)
glad i could help! 4' is a pretty short hose, i'd want a longer one. The shutoff valve being so close like mine isn't a great idea, the heat could potentially screw it up. So far mine is fine, but that doens't mean it will be fine forever.
LOL, Paul I love the fact that your videos are all about discovery. You aren't teaching you are discovering with your viewers.
Thanks! The best way to figure out how something works is to dive in and try it! Sometimes you figure it out, sometimes you get huge blue flames. Win-win.
I also love reinventing the wheel. Good job.
love your conversation and dead pan it makes your videos better, your comments are very good. Just love it. keep doing what you do. Thanks.
+Chuck Simeonides thanks! Glad you enjoyed :D
At a bronze casting foundry we made drilled 1/4" black pipe "shapes" with 2 feeder pipes that were attached to adjustable natural gas and compressed air sources. Each drilled hole became an individual touch and the "shape" corresponded to the shape of the casting mold we wanted to pre heat.
I built mine off a design I found online.. No holes in the tube, but I have a flapper on the back, along with a quick gate valve on the propane I can dial it in at any temp. Cheers. Love your humor! Subbed!
Thanks! Glad you enjoy the vids :)
Comedy in forging! Who knew!!!
Really love the tone of your videos, you earned a new sub! Keep it up!
+ChaosPotato Thanks! Glad you like them :D
You're awesome man keep it up love the channel!
Thank you!
Gas/air best to mix at the nozzle. Try drilling the holes on that bell reducer and orient the location and angle of the holes to come in with a spiraling action. I’m going to work on mine soon.
hey man don't be so hard on yourself you did a good job and you are man enough to correct your own mistakes that's good stuff keep up the good work
You can put a stainless steel mesh at the end to keep the flame from going inside the tube but that might limit gas velocity
You Rock!! I love what I have watched of your channel. Keep up the good work man. Its great stuff
+The Off Grid Family thank you, good sir!
venturiized, love it
So i just lit my forge for the 2nd time today, and am having issues with heat traveling up the burner. NOT OK. so this video is helpful, and probably will be again. I may return with QUESTIONS! haha, thanks!
Love your channel Paul, this vid made me laugh a lot! “It’s back in the pipe again...
thankyou for making this video i just got an old kiln that i swapped over to propane instead of electric and could not get it hot enough to melt copper. i watched the vid made a few adjustments in my set up and boom!!!!!!!!!!!!! now its a forced air unit lol
Awesome! You really can't beat forced air. It's a game changer
Found your channel yesterday just subscribed. You are quite funny and i feel i am learning a lot from your mistakes with some good laughs along the way.
Keep up the good work :)
Thanks! glad you enjoyed :D
I learn something in this video. Thanks.
Drill your primary holes around the circumference of the pipe on the angle as you did on a line just forward of the nozzle outlet. The three holes in a line disrupt air and gas flow, the air should ender the combustion chamber from the same position around the circumference of the inside diameter slightly forward of the jet (orifice)
Ok. So I've got a burner I've made. Similar design, but no holes. (Venturi style) I was having so many issues melting copper.. it just wouldn't do it. Then I found this video.. I went and took the hair dryer off my charcoal furnace and ta'dad it to my burner. I always hated how loud it was then suddenly it was quiet and my copper... well it's molten! Wooo! Great channel and great advice. Thank you. Keep it up
Glad I could help!
definitely subbing. quality content with eggselent humor.
On mine, I added a plenum with a caged fan to push the fuel and air out the front of both burners with some serious force (a lot more force than a hair dryer can supply).
Even so I get the same thing out of the air suction holes happens, and I just place my finger over the hole and POOF, the air being forced in pushes everything with force and the flame shoots out the front.
The issue is some of the mixture is back flowing out the holes, if you stop that it will have to shoot out the front and forcing the air (with enough force) through the pipe is the best solution.
it lit
*AIRHORNS*
seriosly your vids are great i like how you hurry things along ang get to the point but also ramble endlesly at the same time
Thanks! glad you enjoyed
its the speed of the fuel air mixture.. thats why industrial burners have diffuses.. they dont do it for the cool swirling effect, the flame is always trying to burn back to the nozzle you need the speed to feed more air and fuel into the flame before the flame can outrun the source. the "normal" versions of these types of burners are mechanically tuned the jet of fuel from the orifice creates a vacuum and the cone shaped intake (reducer coupling) facilitates the correct air volume, changing the flow rate through the orifice changing the vacuum and the air volume giving you a mechanically tuned dynamic mixture based on the supply pressure. the flared burner end (reducer coupling) causes the the mixture to slow down and burn in a controlled manor.
I was like number 2.3🤣too cool 😎. Great vid!
Paul, I'm kind of dealing with the same issue. I also drilled the holes in the tube to try to see if it helped and then realized that the holes would be blocked by the refractory after I stuck it into the forge. I am going to try a longer tube and maybe a larger jet. (I'm using a .025 mig tip) I am subscribed now and will begin sharing my progress on You Tube as well. Keep making these videos. I love your format and videos like yours keeps me motivated to keep pushing forward with my project. Thanks!
It might be completely inconsequential, but my first thought was that the jet of fuel wasn't pointing directly towards the end nozzle.
that does happen, but mine is pointed straight. when it burns back into the pipe, i can see the flame through the holes and i pointed it straight down the center of the hole. Another trick is to use a hose and pump water into the fuel pipe, and see where the stream comes out of the hole.
Pretty cool bro
Using a refractroy fibre behind a screen just after the air gas but before the flame, this can act as a flame arrestor to disallow your flame from going backwards into the air mix chamber.
When it melts the wrench sockets on your wall, I would call that well tuned
u should try to put ur just at the end of a 1" black pipe in the center of a 1.5 to 1 reducer and make an small flat threaded washer to adjust air flow like Alec Steele does with his burners
+Daryl Gardiner that's more like a reil burner, this is an Oliver upwind burner so it's a totally different design. The reil burner is probably better though.
you might be right I don't really know but I know I'm gonna try to build one for a forge and a smelter
I have been slack and I have just gotten around to watching this. Great content, well explained and executed. Good stuff.
+Home Built By Jeff thanks! Same to you! I actually got into the foundry stuff hoping to cast some replica/custom car parts, like knobs and handles that are cast, and some engine parts (assuming I can get machining them figured out). The car projects don't start until the toy jeep is done though. Wish I had something like a 911 to work on!
Casting is something I haven't played with at all yet, but maybe in the future it could be worth playing with. One of those torches could come in handy on car projects though. I have often needed to heat something up (like with dent removal) and I don't have an Oxy-Acetelene torch. That could do the trick.
+Home Built By Jeff yeah the propane burner is super handy, I can heat treat stuff, cast stuff, temper/anneal stuff. Propane has a much cooler flame than oxy-acetylene but the flame in mine tends to be much larger, so lower temps but higher heat affected zone. Also my burner will not melt steel no matter what I do, so it's less likely to accidentally burn a hole in something. As a bonus a propane tank is less likely to blow my garage up. Acetylene scares the crap out of me.
Being a firefighter, Acetylene scares the crap out of me too ;)
Maybe this has already been said but I think if you have the holes in the side of the pipe you would want to plug the hole at the end of the pipe. It's letting air mix with fuel right at the point where the gas is coming out. You want the air coming in after the gas, your set-up has air coming in before the gas as long as the end of the pipe is open.
i have buildt a propane burner but i have used a vacuum as a force in pushing the butane and flame then with a stop cock to regulate the ration of gas and air wich in my opinion is much safer so you dont get any back flash
PAUL
You are absolutely brilliant and funny, just been watching your video, O man I nearly pissed my pants.
Please don't stop making the video's really enjoyed watching them and I have learned some valuable lessons.
Thanks Paul
Best regards Dave
Thanks! glad you liked the video
Hey, the reason your burner wasn't running right is because you have far too low pressure and made a screwy design. It could still work, but this type of burner doesn't run off a BBQ regulator. I didn't see what the reg you were using was, but based on sound it sounded like a bbq reg, or at least under a psi or two and possibly a much too large propane orifice.
These types of burners usually run 20psi+ with a .023" or 0.030" orifice. The reason it kept sucking back into the tube is you simply don't have enough velocity to push the propane out the end and suck air in the ass end.
no it was a 0-60 psi reg
If you want the best heat/flame the propane nozzle closest to torch tip, Pressurized regulation just behind the propane nozzle and neutral adjustable airports behind pressurized airport.
First time watcher. You crack me up! Thanks.
Thanks! Glad you like the humor
Ive seen guys run the hair dryer. It looked good to me.. even if you keep propane low the hair dryer should still make more heat?
Your channel is awesome.
+Justin Herman thanks!
First off, I love your subtitles.
Secundus: I have already decided that, when I do make my forge/kiln, I will just do the simple expedient of getting a multiple Propane Manifold, 4 hoses, and the el cheapo Propane Torches, burning 1-4 as needed.
thanks! and 4 propane torches sounds pretty intense! I've only ever used 1 and it's plenty
@@PaulsGarage I'd only have the 4 AVAILABLE, they don't need to all be used every time.
Great vid mate love the humour
Forced air is the classic way to get more heat and every blast furnace is proof it works.
Can I use a rosebud tip off of a torch to heat my Foundry I'm going to use a drum out of a dryer and then use the shell from a dryer to make to foundries I want to use propane and a fan to blow the heat Into The Foundry do you think that would work
I love the chimp and the mushroom cloud.
I have a torch that was having the same problem, flames going back down the pipe and creating a terrible racket and very little heat. I solved it by increasing the length of the pipe. For me the problem was that the air and propane was not being mixed sufficiently and backfiring down the tube a dozen times a second. I went form a 6" pipe to a 12" pipe and the mixture coming out the end was then sufficiently mixed and the flare at the end stops the flame from traveling backwards due to the low pressure zone it creates. A well mixed flame produced a sufficient sucking power that you wont need any forced air to push the propane down the tube.
+Andrew K is that the "popping" noise I hear some burners making? I always wondered what caused that.
what kinda pressure regalutor do you use. i have one that goes from 0.4 bar up to 2 bar, but still the flame wont get hot enough too melt aluminium.
+Leander Both I have a turkey fryer regulator, it goes 0-30 psi (about 2bar). Are you adding air to the mix? Propane should burn blue. If it's a yellow fire then it needs some air
I like that your showing your trouble shooting and not just the "glory shots".
If i didn't show the trouble shooting this video would be a short!
very smart
You are hilarious. I’m not sure why I watch your channel? You’re one video away from winning a Darwin Award!
I hope and don’t hope simultaneously to win that prestigious award
Oh I'm definitely building this version. The Awesomer Propane Torch (patent pending)...lol
Can I use it instead of diesel burnal for dip line
Intake for air at top, .023 mig orfice tip in the middle of the top intake, 12" of tube without stupid holes, done. The bell end is not to be put on when burner its screwed into the forge. The bell end is for testing on the bench. It will burn much better with back pressure installed in the forge
One easy trick get a stainless steel scrubby ball then push it in the pipe near burner end. It will work like a back arresting setup forces the flames out past it holding it on one side of it.
Any particular reason to choose this upwind style over a plain ol reil? They are super easy to build and work very well.
+Learning the Hard Way I thought this looked easier to build. Plus I haven't seen people using them. Reil burners have a lot more adjustability, that's probably why people like them. They work pretty well.
Not sure what exactly I learned but it sure as hell looked cool
+ThatOnePineapple I learned I can make insane amounts of fire, that's valuable information right?
This man is a genius. Too bad Mary Jane found him first 😂 I’m just messin bro 🙌🏽
I have the same general type of torch and i think i know your problem. I have to turn my torch on and get the propane to hiss audibly before I light it. When I light it, I light it at the end of the torch.
+Daniel england that's a good idea, I think I'm causing the problem by lighting it in the tube. Of course it will burn in the tube then lol
I added an air regulator from a paint gun and fed forced air from a compressor and can fine tune my air fuel ration
Subbed. Saw your video in my recommended since I am subbed to other forge RUclipsrs.
Thanks! glad you enjoyed
Enjoyed your talking and trying to burn the house down!, Thinking right along with you, Time to melt! Just waiting on you lol
+andy wilson I wasn't trying that hard to burn the house down, nothing even started smoking! I think. I didn't check.
lol
make a tiny version of the hair drier combo to make an alternative to oxy/acetylene torch
still loving this guy!!!
+Stewart Bremner thank you! Glad you are enjoying!
Any way to scale this down a decent bit in order to create a glass blowing torch. Love the idea of being able to melt and blow regular glas without the need of oxygen rig setup. Now, would compressor/compressed air improve this type of set up at all over a blower design?
This particular design is not very easy to control, and I would assume you want a fair bit of control for glass blowing, right? Also, what temperatures do you need for glass blowing? I assume you can get glass to soften and melt without oxygen. I have a very small burner running no air blower in a small pottery kiln and it gets to 2300f+ without a lot of trouble.
This mans sarcasm is lethal
have you tried cutting the back end of the 1" pipe? so that it and really close to where your propane nozzle is and not 3 or 4" behind it? I think it would be easier for it to move the air with a shorter pipe than a long one?
By the back end do you mean the fire end or the opposite end? The non-fire end is being capped (i took the duck tape off and bought a 1" black pipe cap) so no air can get in there at all. The horizontal tube with the gas jet drilled in it takes up too much space in the tube anyway so air doesn't like going around it, even the hair dryer was having trouble to be honest.
great video
+Taite Lennox thanks!
Lol i like how you show the struggle of error. Thats exactly how my experience went too. But try drilling small holes on the sides. yours look pretty big. Next time at homedepot look at the torch by the welding section for burning weeds. Its like 200 bucks it will give you a better idea. And look up poppers guns.
Love it!!
Chalk 101, with Paul / Ruffles.
Next, How not to videogames 101 with Mr. Cody and Basics of Glamour, with Mr. Ruby.
When we used hair dryer it is hotter than not used?
Do you remember the Bunsen burners in high school? Those screens served a purpose; to block the flame from coming back to the burner. If you place a fitted screen in the end of the burner the flame will stay out.
Last video I commented that that looks A LOT like a Bunsen Burner... well, now it's even more like a Bunsen Burner.
But yeah... over-complicate it to be awesomer... it's the only way to go!
"Why does it keep doing that." There was no question mark at the end of that sentence.
You're clearly an intelligent individual. Who, perhaps more clearly, has a lot more theories than answers. Simply put, "I read about propane once, and I have no idea what the hell's going on. But I'm gonna just keep doing shit until it works"
I watch your videos because they are so similar to how I figured these things out (exceedingly low budget and nearly no experience with common tools in a regular setting) , and occasionally I derive ideas from your attempts. Like me, you seem to have an attempt to success ratio that is far out balanced. Combined with the incredibly drab rambling, I really enjoy watching your shit.
I love it.
We're friends now. You understand.
yep, sounds like we're friends. Crazy people have to stick together!
You can run a forced air propane burner at lower propane pressure. This will help keep your propane tank from freezing up.
What prevents the flame from going all the way back into the fuel tank and exploding?
There is no oxygen in the fuel line, and propane cant burn without an oxidizer. If for whatever reason oxygen gets into the line and causes a fire, there is a flashback arrestor built into the regulator attached to the tank.
What is missing is a mesh at the end of the nozzle. That prevents the flame moving back into the tube.
Just gotta light it at the end...not through the holes. It'll still work without the mesh but yeah the mesh is better to use. Also coz the mesh heats up red hot and makes yur flame much hotter...
Hey Paul I like your videos the best u make it real n funny lol um can u tell me how you build that burner
I had another video on building the burner, but really i'd suggest building a "ron reil" burner instead. This one has proven to be tricky to use, though i've figured it out since i made this video.
My problem is once the burner is inside the furnace it burn well until I put the lid on, then theres a big lack of Oxygen and it burn really bad. Should I blow air in the furnace too?
When that happened to me with my last furnace it was because the hole in the top wasn't big enough and it presented a restriction. Blowing air in would help, or maybe cracking the lid open to allow more air out (that's what I did)
will it work with lpg?
The problem MIGHT be regulator pressure. I had the same sound when I were using normal cooking regulator
+Kamal AL-Hinai I could adjust the regulator pressure pretty far, and you're right there is definitely a "correct" pressure it works best at. The trick is figuring that out lol I don't have a gauge or anything.
I think we will be reading this guys obituary.
Maybe with the dryer you could melt metal faster thus using less propane than you thought. It might be a more efficient burn. Plus you could make a blower bypass just like you made your air intake holes and sleeve but this would regulate pressure going out not going in thus allowing you to fine tune air injection and run less gas.
That could work. The only way i was able to get a lean flame was using the hair dryer, so i definitely had more range of adjustment using forced air. Not that I want to use a lean flame, but without the hair dryer i couldn't even get a nice neutral flame.
I might use below to belows to push airs to make jet gas stove .