Becouse its a valve only engine that only works becouse they have all the peopl working with it . Why training somebody to us a Engine thats not industry standart needs most likely alot of changes to work in different typ of games that only valve woud be allowed to do over Unreal that everybody knows how to us is usabell for basicly everything you want to make gets all the new tech and tools there is 0 reason to not us Unreal
@@xythiera7255 i mean i'm pretty sure while source 2 is still closed with the only third party it got leased to is garry newman ( the creator of gmod) to make S&Box, the first source engine was public its just that it isnt really that easy to use and if you wanted to make money of what you made using the source 1 engine you had to pay licensing fees, which was not really worth it since the source 1 engine was pretty old by the time it became public and engines like unity and unreal engine were free to use
The prevalence of stuns and disables really makes you remember that this is a game by the people who made Dota. The game with blinking earthshakers in it. I don't remember where I first heard it, I think fighting games, but I remember the exchange of "How do you get out of this situation?" being countered with "the way out of this situation is to not get into it in the first place." Initiation becomes an arms race. Who can lay an ambush first, who can fly halfway across the map and stun the whole enemy team first, because when a lot of the kit and items in this game revolve around getting close to someone before they can get away from you, eventually all reaction must become prediction.
Hard core support player for dota 2, A little bit of column A and column B. My job is as the support was too predict the enemy positions I didn't hate it but what I had was not too worry to much on buying items my abilities mattered more and setting the stage for my carry and initiators putting wards down dewarding locations being a pain to their setups and making bluffs with smoke. All well in good for a dedicated person that enjoys reading the map....That is where your worries come to reality and the same for star here. I'm sure icefrog is behind this madness but the difference in that game was you could glance at your teams lane to see how they're doing to make a call or even keep an eye on the blips of the map etc. I saw earthshaker in the jungle he has blink now and I make sure my team knows he has it and he is top. Calls are made the game continues. With deadlock there are no dedicated roles which drives me a little crazy and I can't make decisions around me team as I don't know their builds or where they're at with confidence I know the health bar and icons on the MINI map but that doesn't help me the first person shooter part with the ambush mechanics are already a problem. TLDR: You're right and it's going to get nasty once players understand the items and builds a little more the CC is not good when you can't watch the fight as a support player who enjoys the job of watching and predicting.
the gimmick part of the video reminds me of kids play battling where one kid has a gun that kills everything in one shot but the other kid has a superpower that makes him invincible but the first kid put an upgrade on that gun to make it so it can kill the other kid and
thats the dota experience. I don't see it as an issue because as game experience grows you know what to expect out of people and can see their item builds. So you counter that. Skill wins fights, but being one step ahead of the enemy wins the game.
@@greyskies5115 I mean "wiggling your mouse around" seems more interesting and fun to me than competitive shopping if we're gonna be reductive and hyperbolic
as someone who's played Dota and FPS games, this definitely satisfies more of that dota itch for me. i think the game will feel more fleshed out the more heroes are added and while you have some bullshit combo, the enemies will have bullshit combos too. as for the long team fight, can't speak for league but those are all items you see in dota but more importantly its all late game gear which is necessary since by that point everyone is extremely tanky or have high dps so each death is earned as it can swing the game to end within minutes if you're not careful.
It's just your reaction is the same reaction everyone from Dota expected Overwatch and League fans to have. "Everything is too powerful. The items are too powerful. There's too much CC". It's a very predictable video considering your background.
It just feels like you didn't do your due diligence beforehand tho. You say you get that it's a MOBA and yet all your complaints are intrinsic parts of MOBAs. It's like you ordered a pizza and complained that there's cheese on it.
John Carmack is one of the greatest developers to have ever existed Multiplayer shooters wouldn't contain some of the greatest games that it has if it weren't for him and the entire classic iD devs' efforts Real shame that his time at Meta developing VR tech ended with the corporation shafting him though, I hope he's doing well now
the problem with Quake is that developers that use it fight _against_ the jank like Fast Inverse Square Root and the game falls apart. Quake Engine works best when you work with the craziness and just do some error checking along the way.
@@trackpadchad239 Yeah, cuz it's old. If you just remake quake people would play it, that's how it works. Newer games get more playtime. That's why call of duty is the most played game ever for like 2 weeks and then everyone forgets about it.
ye seems lik this game is much more similar to dota than league. you can see in one of the gameplay cuts that the game has been going on for 45 minutes at that point, which in league happens once every 50 games in low elo and probably evey 100+ games in higher elos. also the fact that every ability is so disgustingly broken is a very dota-like way of balancing the game, if everything is broken, then nothing is.
the impression i get from this video is that deadlock is a game with very crazy, in-depth combos and wacky item synergies that will be very fun with to experiment with and mess around with, but might be shitty once the novelty wears off and a meta starts to become established this makes me wanna get in on the ground floor now, have fun before a meta is established and experiment and goof around, and then hope in the long term as the meta develops good patches keep the annoying stuff from getting too out of hand
Icefrog is onef the dev so expect wacky and drastic, borderline retarded updates, it converges into metas, but the meta is usually updated every patch.
i trust valve and icefrog with the meta stuff. Dota 2 never had a proper "meta" for more than 2 weeks at most, the game is so complex and deep that even if valve never updated for a year, people would STILL find new metas and crazy builds in the game. Its very clear deadlock is headed that direction too and some people might not like it, but the moba/strategy nerd are gonna go crazy for it. But you know what they say. A game for everyone is a game for no one.
@@raulfreeman313 There is even a time when dota 2 lacks massive updates and yet people find new meta here and there. This is back when the neon prime leak happened a few years ago.
@@user-rn4kl7uv3y the thing I will say about moba players tho is, they STARVE for change and content so much and idk how the shooter crowd is gonna feel about that. Maybe im just thinking only about tf2/cs2 fans who dont like change, but it seems like valve is not afraid of filtering some players out if it means theyll have a dedicated and loyal fanbase.
@@raulfreeman313 You look at TI2 era Lycan or 6.83 and you tell me with a straight face that Dota has never had a hard meta. I guarantee you there's some bullshit in almost every patch and the only reason people don't get sick of it is that they rework half the game and bloat it with a new mechanic once or twice a year.
I feel that part of TF2’s longevity is its simplicity. You have only (usually) 3 weapons to manage, and weapons are mostly balanced against each other. Even a medic running a vaccinator has counter play. (Which probably also explains why everybody hates sniper, since you have so few options on counter play).
deadlock sounds like it’d be fun for about a week before people find extremely specific strategies that make everything else completely useless and if u don’t run those strategies u might as well just not play
@@Bloockackack you mean to tell me Overwatch-derived slop plays like OW and has stupid game design and balance decisions that leads to straight up toxicity. Wow, I didn't know that. You're telling me now for the first time.
And it's low stakes. Dying once doesn't give whoever killed you a permanent cash boost that they can spend on getting even more powerful. All it does is take you out of the action for a bit. There's no concept of "feeding" to get salty about.
I have a theory that stuns in video games are designed to instruct the gamer that lack of movement is more deadly than bursting damage. Therefore being stunned ie sitting at a computer game for 8 hours a day is actually more deadly than getting punched.
It’s gonna be a valve free to play title… seeing as they basically invented hats, loot boxes and all of that… yes they’re gonna have hats. Probably the best hats
in shooters, stuns are often so looked down on that they get removed. in MOBAs, stuns are something that tons of playable characters have in their kits. Not sure how that's gonna balance out with this game.
Yeah so far it feels like characters with stuns are REALLY strong now, even tho most of them are delayed in some ways. And Dynamo with blackhole is just ridiculous
Stuns in shooters are tricky. They're obnoxious when they're brief and are locking your aiming: like cree's flashbang in OW that used to lock your camera controls for
Stuns are cancer and a blight upon gaming. The only PvP games where I think stuns are acceptable are fighting games and that's just because idk how tf you would make a fun fighting game without them since they are pretty integral to combos which is a large portion of the appeal of fighting games.
as a moba/shooter player, this game is fucking crack cocaine. the movement feels fantastic, the csing/denying feels fantastic, the cc is obviously annoying but is pretty easy to play around ive found unless the team is REALLY coordinated - like 3+ stacks.
You covered my thoughts perfectly. At the end of the day the simplicity combined with large potential for experimentation has been very enjoyable and I hope it doesn’t derive way too much from its core as the development progresses
Because in 2015, Valve lied and said they would release Source 2 for free for all developers, but then they kept it private, only licensing it out to ONE developer so far. And older Source engines are incredibly outdated.
I like to see the goofiness of the game mechanics as the devs trying to see the edge cases of the game mechanics. Like see how far people can take certain mechanics and what kind of effects it will have, so that they will have data and knowledge for future. I think it’s good that they r doing this now with a bunch of different mechanics rather than later. People need to keep in mind that this is still early stage so nothing is set in stone and almost everything can be seen as experimental
this game is pretty much fps dota. dota is like this, and it makes sense that valve will go in that direction. and when i mean like "this" i mean that its just all a big game of rock-paper-scissors. everything counters everything and the entire game you try not to get counterpicked by building a counter to his counter and then he does the same etc. a very annoying way of balancing the game to any player that isnt a hardcore fan imo
@@zezanje1That isn't the case at all. DOTA balance is more of like a "Here is this hero. They do one thing really well, and in a better way than any other hero. If your team doesn't pick someone to counter them or mitigate what they do, or you can try to pick a different strategy and try do do a different thing more effectively than them. If that doesn't work, maybe some items will help but if those don't work then you better pray that your team is just better organized.". I have found that this leads to a lot of games where both teams have asymmetrical strategies that don't necessarily counter each other but still play against each other quite well and a lot of times it isn't immediately obvious which team actually has the advantage.
"Like see how far people can take certain mechanics and what kind of effects it will have" Every Dota 2 Players who has to experience every new dumb, funny, and broken shit every major patches or every year: "Well about that-" It's the reason why Dota players still call their game still in beta. Always has something new always has something removed or gone. Even returning players think if they're playing Dota 2 or Dota 37 even after reading patches. So after Deadlock officially releases, I bet, the first ones who will call it still in beta game are Dota players. You'll experience Deadlock 2 right away.
~450 hours in, currently in mid Oracle rank, and I can confirm even in this relatively tryhard level, the game's still a lot of fun even with meta builds. The thing is, the counterplay mechanics in the game prevents item builds from becoming too static. The best players have to constantly adapt to the situation at hand and thus there's no definitive build pathway, it's always changing depending on the flow of the game, the opposition lineup and also their itemisation.
after watching a lot of Jerma's old videos i decided to see what Ster was up to nowadays and i'm quite pleasantly surprised. This is a genuienly hooking video and it earned my subscription despite never having really followed Ster's stuff before.
With so many stuns, shutdowns and movement options I feel like a point of frustration will be that counterplay is dependent on seeing you enemy. In dota or league, its 2d so everyone can see each other within the FOV, or when they cant its a gameplay choice, like with bushes that needs to be worked around. In 1st person you can get jumped with an ult from behind, or above and from that perspective you just get dumpstered out of nowhere. Overwatch kinda has this problem, but its abilities were less hard shutdown overall.
If you get dumpstered out of nowhere, the counterplay is to not be in that position in the first place. In my experience, controlling vision is not frustrating, its vital. If im staring at a wall, neglecting vision, i deserve to die regardless if its 2d or 3d. If someone crawls out of a staircase behind me, its on our team for not tracking that enemy and its a good play done by the enemy team. Counterplay isn't just what actives and abilities you pop during a fight, but also what you do before it.
I've been playing a bit now and the sound design tries to address that point. You can hear from where and when people are trying to ambush you. Maybe it is from playing a lot of PUBG and Apex in the past but I pay close attention to the sound of footsteps to know where my enemy is coming from.
@@robotj6559 To my understanding, warding is not really a thing in this game, so the concept of "controlling vision" might mean something different in this game compared to other mobas
Even Valve could not make me really enjoy MOBAs, but its best quality is that my friends who only play League will actually play it with me. Definitely agree about the streamlined item buying, it really made a difference for someone like me who kinda hates that aspect of MOBAs.
my thought as well, my friend group is basically split 50/50 between MOBA players and shooter enjoyers. This is has something for both and is actually bringing us together
@@vikingraider58The event that caused Earth to be full of magic happened around the 20s. We know the current game is set in the 60s because said event also brought a gargoyle to life and now that gargoyle has been breathing for almost 4 decades now.
This game is going to be extraordinarily sweaty because it'll just attract that kind of population having all these mechanics to master, which makes the potential skill ceiling is so absurdly beyond high. It's fun for sure, but also utterly bewildering and confusing to me with my tiny 20hrs of playtime.
@@MasticaterTheChewer This point is even further pushed by the LAME fact that there is fucking HIDDEN elo in the game without even a comp mode. Literally having to remake accounts every other day because after a certain point the lobbies are so sweaty.
My favourite little bit is the candlestick head minions go shorter the lower their health is I love the game, i have only 25 hours and played it since last week but already loving the game. My Four main characters are Mcginnis , warden, Kelvin and Ivy in that order of playtime My smite background kicked in and already I am loving this game Also im enjoing just the pve bot matches as a Blue-collar casual
As someone that has played League on and off for years. At the counter part portion there are some champions when they get the right items early enough or just fed enough that counter play from certain champions is impossible. There's a funny champion that was called Mordekaiser who's ultimate is to lock them down in a special realm that's super small and don't let them escape (So it's good to use on Squishy Champs to grantee they can't run and you can kill them). The PROBLEM however was a funny little item called QSS (Quick Silver Slash) that everyone in lane against him would buy that CLEANSED all types of CC. So the combo for years was "Fighting Mordekaiser? Buy QSS. He ults you to kill you in his realm? Use QSS and run away (also puts his ultimate on full cooldown. The QSS item cooldown was also around the same timer as Mords ultimate. So you can forever make him waste/escape his Ultimate). Mord dosen't have any movement escape for his E pull, if he misses that or it's dodged, he can't keep up and secure his kill then. They did however fix this...by making Mord's Ultimate ignore QSS Clense because it wasn't considered as Slow/Stun/Charm/Root but it's own thing. It took them years to make this change. YEARS. I got a feeling on full release there's going to be a lot of balance changes around the items because it reminds me a lot of Dota 2. Which is insanely item active use reliant and may turn a lot of people off because very niche meta's for this game are going to be made.
it's kind of different in DotA. because if mordekaiser is in DotA. he'd be able to cancel his ult animation. so it gives a little bit of mind games to people. kind of like how Pudge Hook or Magnus RP or even SF's ult cancel to bait out Movements or BKB or blink daggers anything. Or in Mordekaiser's case. he'd be able to bait the QSS. There are already a hero in deadlock where you can cancel the skill. I forgot which one. I accidentally found out about it by missclicking.
@@gragalakaisel1477 Worth mentioning that with Morde's ult, you can QSS at any point during the ult and it lasts 10 seconds IIRC, so animation baiting won't do much in Morde's case.
Riot went over a 5 year crusade to kill gimmicks. Most weird builds are over, most dumb runes and items got removed. Why? Because you had to keep those gimmicks underpowered or they were extremely unfun. Pyke mid, Kleptomancy, Morgana jungle to name a few.
This game has a nice community already; all chat and team chat is hilarious most of the time. That's all that it takes for me to move from League of Legends to Deadlock... period. I hope that people remain friendly for the game's full duration.
That's definitely my thought as well. The game is very EXCITING and full of potential, but I am just not sure how that potential will be capitalized on. The longer I play, the more games seem to be dominated by very early laning interactions for a gigantic snowball on one side or the other, and when that doesn't happen, tend to get very ratty/split-pushy untill the one team boxes the other into base, and either rolls them or gets durdled out by small trades until the power script flips in a long game. The better the players get, the less that exciting fights seem to happen, and the more it tends toward "victory by strangulation."
Not really. Ster's biggest gripe it seems is the moba aspects of this game. This game is 70% moba. And the higher skill level you go, the more that percentage increases. That's why he thinks the game feels more gimmicky the better you get. That's just moba for you
This was the only Deadlock video I watched and after that I started play the game daily. I have 700h in Dota 2 and last time I played it was 2014. I love Deadlock and I'm happy that you made a video about it. PS. I saw you looking youtube comments last stream and I just wanted to comment :)
My biggest gripe is that its just such a mess as to whats going on, on your screen. Especially during that part where you were making the example of it having too many gimmicks. Its just magic neon lights filling your entire view. It doesnt feel like half the things that happen in this game necessarily need a visual indicator, especially when that visual indicator doesnt actually say anything about what is going on, you just know that something is going on
It is baffling to me that Valve, who worked so hard on the visual designs of TF2 and Portal to make everything readable at a glance, is fine with making a game that’s a complete unreadable visual mess. Ster said people would want to watch this game more than play it, but I don’t think I can even get over that barrier. I could never get into Overwatch for the same reason… there’s particles everywhere and the game leans entirely on the HUD to communicate information because they wanted the game to be flashy instead of readable.
genuinely as you play the game more i feel that everything happening is very clear despite how it seems at first -- same for a lot of comments about how cluttered the ui feels
@@Dave01Rhodes damn, its almost like the game is unfinished 🤯, it also feels like the artstyle and graphics was completely overhauled not even 8 months ago 🤯. muh valve devs have fallen from grace wahh😭😭 #fixtf2 #myballsitch
I've been playing the game for about 100 hours, and I already get that feeling of liking to watch rather than play. I do like playing it, but I feel it takes an amount of concentration and thought that some days I just don't have. The MOBA elements of heavy CC and long games can get really grating to me personally, that a bad game can feel like its gone on for too long and burns me out. I have been made to experience the Deadlock Experience multiple times of like 20-30 second CC chains where I may as well just tab out. That being said I love the depth of the movement, the depth of the builds, how everything feels interconnected. It's rare for me to not just latch onto one character and mainly play it, but in this game I've been enjoying multiple of them and I think that's a good thing personally. I feel that a lot of my frustrations with the game personally would be diminished if they were do cut back a lot on the CC. It's felt good to learn the game though, when I started 7's ult felt like the most bullshit thing ever, but now I can deal with it a lot better. Overall I think Deadlock has quite a lot of potential and I hope it goes into a good direction. We're still early in development and I can't wait to see where things go.
I think the stuns are a big problem as well, especially with what you are saying with the item counters nullifying some heroes. But I also think the items in the late game are really ridiculous and can help mitigate, Refresher and Curse are two good ones.
I had fun with deadlock, my problems lie with the fact that it is, at the end of the day, a moba and I never liked mobas. The learning cliff is annoying, and the struggle of figuring out why you are getting stomped before you can learn how to prevent that is just too much.
play bot matches, learn at your own pace there and then play vs players. and remember, you win through cold hard cash and not kills, maximise the smount of souls you get per minute by taking jungle camps and taking lane creeps.
Yeah honestly seemed like he got some mad value out of all that too, a refresher double black hole then eating lash's ult. Its also good to point out how that only happens late into the game. He would have already had to play like 30min of a much less gimmick intensive game, the real wacky gimmickness that comes in super late games can kinda be draining though. when my Dota games hit the 70 min mark its hard to not feel like the game is just a clown show
Vinny: I'm going to try it just because it's a Valve game. STER_: I'm going to reveal my Power Level on main, Pokelawls: I've been playing with STER_ all this time. ... Now we wait for the next Four Horsemen Event. P.S. Yeah, heard the bit from the "Thank Goodness You're Here!" stream, alas.
@@kona7043 The problem with most of these guys is that they're old (lol). Jerma is almost 40, Ster is mid-30s, Vinny is almost 40, Poke is 30. This game requires an insane amount of dexterity/alertness/macro/micro/creep farming/soul denying/aiming/advanced builds, etc. It's nothing like Smite. Smite is a joke compared to this game in terms of complexity. (No offense to Smite). Smite is entirely on the ground and features slow, horizontal-only aiming with auto-lock. Deadlock has full range of motion with an extremely in depth-movement system, full verticality, and fast paced movement that's like TF2 on crack. I can see people like Poke and Ster playing this game considering they're still hardcore gamers and such but if you've ever seen Jerma's Fortnite stream, this shit would be a nightmare for him to stream. I'm 22 and even I have a hard time with this game, and I've played shooters/mobas since I was in elementary school. I'm not sure Vinny or Jerm have it in them, and honestly I'm surprised Ster seems to be this competent at the game. He must play TF2 alot still. Would be fun to see them try it for a few games and watch as they progressively get more upset.
I feel like Battleborn did this concept a bit better. It only really died because it came out so close to Overwatch. I hope to see more shooter+moba combos in future, though. fun concept
As a long-tme dota player, its pretty funny to hear complaints or concerns about stun durations. I dont see anything wrong about Dynamo refreshing the ult to cast it again by itself. My initial reaction to the game was that they were overall short or hard to pull off, such as Wraiths ultimate having a kinda slow and audible projectile, just for a 1-2s stun. But then I realized that in Dota, everything is a lot more visible with the top-down camera view, with more unique polarized roles, meaning a support will often be able to have a full supporting toolkit to save an ally from a stun, or the player themselves see the initiation coming from various sources of vision and manages to counter it. So in deadlock, it is kinda hard to counter certain things I think a big difference between dota and deadlock is the economy. Things such as duration extension and cooldown reduction is rare to come by in dota, the items are rather used to enable a hero to cast spells in the first place, hit efficiently and give defensive benefits to counterplay. Most items in dota are also medium to high cost, but built from smaller components, while also gaining item overall takes more time, and given priority to the core roles. This makes the item progression more gradual and slow, and monopolizes most of the direct danger towards 2 or 3 of the players on each team. While in deadlock, threats are hard to keep track of since farm is distributed more. I think if they wanna really make the dota-like high power-ceiling thing work they need to make the game a bit more visible and maybe overall slower maybe
the i-m-m-e-r-s-i-o-n and on-demand nature of a gun shoot game makes stun mechanics FEEL SO MUCH WORSE than they are in crinjj babby click power up cooldown games
Really appreciate the honest review. I can now safely say that this won't be my cup of tea, but I also hope that anyone interested will get the enjoyment they want to get out of it.
My 2 cents (from an on-and-off dota fan who has played a little bit of Deadlock so far): I agree with a lot of other commenters (who put it more eloquently than I can) about how this is very much Dota-balance inspired, which I don't necessarily mind. I think that with time/feedback, some of the issues presented can be fixed or at least compromised on. For a specific example about Metal skin, the closest example from Dota would be Ghost Scepter - You enter ghost form for 4 seconds, becoming immune to physical damage, but are unable to attack and 40% more vulnerable to magic damage. I think in this very specific example, if you made Metal Skin have a similar type of trade-off/shorter duration/etc., it might not be so bad. But I think the counter-play and the reacting to choices made before and during the game are some of the aspects I'm really interested in. Again with the Haze example, Metal skin might counter Haze if one hero pops it for that duration, but that doesn't mean she can't sleep the Metal Skinned hero and focus someone else. Also the Hero who buys Metal Skin is devoting an item slot for a defensive item, instead of an item that could serve some other role. I feel like there are ways to play around "counters" and adapt, which will be exciting. I don't think it is going to be as rock-paper-scissors heavy as some might fear. Or at least, it won't just be a sure thing that someone is going to win if they buy X item (nothing exists in a vacuum). As someone who isn't good at shooters (but can enjoy them - Overwatch, TF2-somewhat), I have been enjoying this a lot so far. Meta(s) will undoubtedly form over time, but balance patches and new heroes and items can shake things up and help keep different strategies viable, which is why it is important to keep giving feedback and breaking the game. Thanks for the thoughts/vid, Ster. Hope you continue to enjoy the game
same with the ultimate he showed in the video. He says that this ultimate can stun you for 5 seconds but he ignored the fact that this ultimate is a channeling ability so the caster is also being stunned.
Yeah I really enjoyed the video until he kind of fell into the “it’s unfair” hole. The trade offs and builds you can do are what make the game that extra bit of incredible.
league has that same issue where some champions can be completely countered by 1 item or ability. Characters like trundle for example only deal damage with auto attacks, similar to Haze, and there are characters in the game that can just dodge all auto attacks for a set duration which essentially disables your entire character; same with malzahar, he's like mo and krill in the sense that he can use his R to lock down a carry, which is like his one purpose in the late game, but you can just buy an item that instantly cleanses yourself of the stun and basically malzahar is now useless
5:15 "But this is a Spider-Man with a gun, from a universe where there are no moral implications!" "I see nothing wrong with this!" "Well, here's a Green Goblin from the universe where everyone wears bullet-proof vests!"
Great video Ster, it's a good comeback to a style that has been nostalgic lately, and it's heartwarming to see it with a new game like Deadlock The Source 2 engine unfortunately is still not yet open to the public, it is technically still under development even though Valve employees use it. I cannot wait to try it one day.
I honestly believe this game won't be an insane hit, and mostly because the game focuses on the best of both worlds from Shooters and MOBAs, a combination that as far as I remember only Super Monday Night Combat attempted (and failed). I'm not saying the game would deserve having no players, and I'm also not saying it will HAVE no players, but it feels inevitable that it'll be a niche game with a moderate fanbase. You can't force a MOBA fan to enjoy the shooting and you can't force a Shooter fan to give massive hoots about the MOBA aspect of the game - and that's totally okay. Deadlock shouldn't try to be League of Legends, injecting metaphorical needles into your veins to keep the dopamine pumping and keeping you playing; it should simply be a fun game with a niche community.
A+ analysis and well produced video. Your point of all the extra nonsense that MOBA's bring actively dragging the game down, and I super agree. As much as I love the art style and Valve games, I have no desire to get stunned for 5 seconds or be dead for 60+ seconds when I'm trying to play a mobility focused shooter.
Paladins has tons of stuns and honestly I don't mind because you can buy stun resistance. It does take away from buying other items, but it feels good being able to just buy the ability to just shrug off stuns.
Aesthetic: don't hate it. Gameplay concept: I'm leery about it. The clip at 5:15: aight ima head out. Really, thanks for as informative a look at this as I could hope for, but it does kinda confirm what I had figured; MOBA elements are my anathema.
items have historically been the toughest thing to balance in dota too. The solution there was to add things like items getting longer cool downs/shorter durations the more you use them, and items having a brief cool down if you've been hit. Also! I agree that things feel crazy when someone has a crazy combo or strat going but hopefully it'll be more fun as people being to learn counterplays and how to apply them :)
ive played several thousand hours of almost every popular moba, and i have a limited experience playing shooters, i managed to get gold nova 3 in csgo and played a bit of comp tf2, but im really really enjoying deadlock. it has all the strategy elements i love about dota while having a ton of room for skill expression with its movement and pure aim-trainer fights. it honestly feels like the perfect game for me
also i disagree with the whole metal skin thing, fixation has a spirit damage component and you can still do some damage through metal skin, i dont think its a really good counter. should also note that all the equivalent “counter items” like unstoppable, debuff remover, metal skin, are all much shorter in duration than in dota, it seems the items are not meant to be as impactful to your performance as in dota, albeit a similar sort of design philosophy of covering your weaknesses with your item choices.
I honestly hope this game gets a TF2 style casual mode. 12v12, drop in or out of a match whenever, no character limits, mid game character switching, and balance things like soul gain , guardians and other moba stuff to accommodate the players. Just let people do some goofy builds and fuck around without worrying too much, but still having objectives.
Honestly yeah i will say having played it imo 6v6 just dosent work half the time the map fells empty but those teams fights where shit hits the fan is good fun but i feel like they are just so rare that i am left half the time sitting around doing nothing in the early game . 12v12 might be a slight bit to much though i think 8v8 would work a bit better or mabey even 10v10.
It's a Valve game, people will make lots of stupid stuff in it, I've already seen in reddit someone porting a CS2 map into it. With all the dynamic movement that exists in the game now, I cant wait for someone to create jump/surf maps.
"My concern is that it might turn into a game that is more fun to watch than to play themselves." I could feel myself dissociating just from watching this footage. When 2/3 of the screen isn't being taken up by UI elements, it's just a giant rainbow laser epilepsy hazard.
This game feels close enough to Super Monday Night Combat, which I used to play and loved. But this video made me realize that this game is going to be way, way more complex and gimmicky. And as much as I'd like to get into Deadlock, I feel I no longer have either the time or patience to invest and grind that heavily into a single game. Getting to know all the in-depth combos and item synergies is a very time-consuming effort that I can no longer afford. As I get older, my quality play time gets more and more limited. Also, my reflexes just aren't what they used to be. On the other hand, I also feel sad that I'm going to miss out on this.
As a non-MOBA guy, the item system is really offputting to me, especially seeing how game-changing some of them are. One of the best parts of hero shooters is that you can reason about what your opponent will do *at a glance*, without needing to track what item builds everyone has. If you are familiar with the characters' skills, and have some feel for their cooldowns, you have all the info you need to pick your battles wisely. Items add SO much more information to track, it just feels overwhelming.
it seems like that but for most mobas people can usually figure out what the opponent will build or supposed to build based on their character. after time you’ll think of certain characters and associate them with their respective items
As a Moba guy, I have the exact opposite opinion as you. For me, if they didn’t add items, this would just be another hero shooter. And as you’ve said, Items add a whole other mechanic to characters, and as a Moba guy, I like that because that means you can choose to play your character differently everytime, depending on the situation. Not just play the same character with the same abilities for the whole game. I mean look at how bad a Moba with no items did(Hots).
I REALLY like the sound of flexible characters without roles, and the ability to counterpick your opponents items. This is all stuff I wanted from Paladins. I also love that feeding is not a big deal, letting you enjoy the shooting side of the game more and it being more about strategy, counter strategy, and teamwork. These are all good things. Give me a kitsune and Im sold.
The biggest thing about this game for me is that it feels like home after playing one game. This is after me seeing the gameplay a while ago and not thinking much of it. Now that I have played it, it’s so far awesome.
The stun mechanics sound absolutely awful. But I’m happy it’s not trying to replace TF2. I feel like this is gonna have to compete big time with Smite 2 and other MOBA games.
Having mega OP techniques, and then balancing them by including hard-counters is a good observation. That's a very DOTA-like design, and something I'm not a fan of. It's along the same lines as "if everyone is overpowered, no one is." But taking it too far leads to goofy, gimmicky gameplay, if I can use your word, and that gets really frustrating. It's a lot easier to see in fighting games, where everyone is buffed to the point of having a touch-of-death combo. Yeah, the game is balanced because every character can do it, but it's sure as heck frustrating and way less fun for it.
well it's obvious. Movement is your main defense in shooters. Not your armor, not your HP! It is the fact that the enemy will miss their bullets that's keeping you alive. Shooters are balanced around that if they don't have auto aim. As long as you are mobile you will have significant degree of defense. Taking away someone's mobility even for a second makes them like 98% vulnerable. That's not the case in other genres like MOBAs for example. You don't do more damage to stunned people in MOBA games. Landing 82 headshots in a row in Deadlock is kinda insane damage. That's why the supposedly OP ultimate this video showed is not that OP. That ultimate does not simply stun you for 5 whole seconds, the caster is ALSO stunned. That's the trick with channeling abilities. They are balanced around the fact that the caster is incredibly vulnerable themselves by losing their mobility. Pharah or McCree ultimate in OW comes to mind. Very strong ultimates both in terms of damage but they will never be OP.
Completely understandable perspective on the items on items thing. It comes from dota 2, which the entire game consists of stuff like this. Item counters on item counters. I personally find it quite fun and rewarding. In higher level play you're aware of items and their cooldowns, and your teammate's restrictions. You'll try to disable that item or get them to use it, so your teammate isnt countered by it. A sorta comparison is just forcing uber to be used. You're not forcing uber to win a 1v1, you're doing that so your teammates can take advantage of their lack of uber later. I think most of your issues come with analyzing this game from an individual perspective, and those things will feel like less of an issue as people get more used to treating it like a team game and actually working with eachother. So stay hopeful! C: Plus valve devs have no issue making sweeping changes, if something really doesnt feel good in the long run they are gonna change it, valve devs (at least dota ones) have zero sense of the sunk cost fallacy.
As someone who in the last 2 years has put 600 hours in dota 2 and found myself loving to learn it, I am in love with deadlock maybe its because beyond my love of MOBAs I also love shooters but everything about deadlock is just fucking amazing I love the shooting I love the items I love the map I love everything about it and can't wait to see the full valve flavor of the game.
Been playing it a lot lately and I’m really enjoying it. As someone who used to play LoL and a bit of DOTA 2 I think it’s really cool how much this game retains that MOBA feel while offering a much more engaging experience with the unique perspective. As for your point about the game being less fun the more people understand the game, I feel like that’s just inherent to MOBAs in general. Everything is about exploiting things the opponent is struggling with whether it’s farming/kills/objectives etc so when you have two teams that know everything about the game it’s just a matter of who makes the first mistake. Personally I think this can make for some really fun tense standoffs, but it can definitely be really stressful when your opponent reacts to every play you attempt to make
It's more like PA's blink than the blink dagger, as it's a targeted ability that debuffs the opposing player. But for the record, there is also a blink dagger-ish item that you can use both to initiate and to escape.
@@Redstarka22 I didn't mean the "target at enemy to teleport", I meant the one right before, where it gives you a big jump that if I read right gets disabled if you take damage. That's a blink dagger (the fact that the movement is not instant does not change that).
I’m a primarily moba enjoyer being a dota player of 10 years. Dabbling in rogue likes every now and then. Deadlock was fun for me from a moba perspective but the shooter aspect really makes me feel the skill diff of not playing any shooters. I’ll struggle to play going forward other than casually as the hours required to build aim I don’t have.
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"Why don't more people use the source engine? It feels like home."
Very high-quality, well-produced video, ster. It feels like home too.
Source 2, from what I can tell, is still very much closed to the general public.
Becouse its a valve only engine that only works becouse they have all the peopl working with it . Why training somebody to us a Engine thats not industry standart needs most likely alot of changes to work in different typ of games that only valve woud be allowed to do over Unreal that everybody knows how to us is usabell for basicly everything you want to make gets all the new tech and tools there is 0 reason to not us Unreal
@@robotsix6268 The only public Source 2 you can get is through the S&box game, and that game also heavily modified Source 2 into its own thing.
@@xythiera7255 i mean i'm pretty sure while source 2 is still closed with the only third party it got leased to is garry newman ( the creator of gmod) to make S&Box, the first source engine was public its just that it isnt really that easy to use and if you wanted to make money of what you made using the source 1 engine you had to pay licensing fees, which was not really worth it since the source 1 engine was pretty old by the time it became public and engines like unity and unreal engine were free to use
Seems like I've been here before.
Seems so familiar.
Feels like I'm slipping into a dream within a dream...
The prevalence of stuns and disables really makes you remember that this is a game by the people who made Dota. The game with blinking earthshakers in it. I don't remember where I first heard it, I think fighting games, but I remember the exchange of "How do you get out of this situation?" being countered with "the way out of this situation is to not get into it in the first place." Initiation becomes an arms race. Who can lay an ambush first, who can fly halfway across the map and stun the whole enemy team first, because when a lot of the kit and items in this game revolve around getting close to someone before they can get away from you, eventually all reaction must become prediction.
Pretty much, and skilled teams refuse to engage until they've reloaded their ambush buttons
@@ster That gives you an oportunity to take midboss. If they refuse to engage, you take objetives. MOBAs come from strategy games after all.
Hard core support player for dota 2, A little bit of column A and column B. My job is as the support was too predict the enemy positions I didn't hate it but what I had was not too worry to much on buying items my abilities mattered more and setting the stage for my carry and initiators putting wards down dewarding locations being a pain to their setups and making bluffs with smoke. All well in good for a dedicated person that enjoys reading the map....That is where your worries come to reality and the same for star here.
I'm sure icefrog is behind this madness but the difference in that game was you could glance at your teams lane to see how they're doing to make a call or even keep an eye on the blips of the map etc. I saw earthshaker in the jungle he has blink now and I make sure my team knows he has it and he is top. Calls are made the game continues. With deadlock there are no dedicated roles which drives me a little crazy and I can't make decisions around me team as I don't know their builds or where they're at with confidence I know the health bar and icons on the MINI map but that doesn't help me the first person shooter part with the ambush mechanics are already a problem.
TLDR: You're right and it's going to get nasty once players understand the items and builds a little more the CC is not good when you can't watch the fight as a support player who enjoys the job of watching and predicting.
Most of heroes with strong stun in Deadlock shooting peashooter with shitty range. It is balanced that way.
laughs in tracking 4 second stun morphling
the gimmick part of the video reminds me of kids play battling where one kid has a gun that kills everything in one shot but the other kid has a superpower that makes him invincible but the first kid put an upgrade on that gun to make it so it can kill the other kid and
That's kind of the best way to summarize Valve's approach to balance lmao
thats the dota experience. I don't see it as an issue because as game experience grows you know what to expect out of people and can see their item builds. So you counter that. Skill wins fights, but being one step ahead of the enemy wins the game.
@@AndroiskiSounds like cope, its the lamest form of skill expression to buy an item to win
@@SmittyWerbenJag3rmanJenson What's the coolest form of skill expression? Being the best at wiggling your mouse around?
@@greyskies5115 I mean "wiggling your mouse around" seems more interesting and fun to me than competitive shopping if we're gonna be reductive and hyperbolic
as someone who's played Dota and FPS games, this definitely satisfies more of that dota itch for me. i think the game will feel more fleshed out the more heroes are added and while you have some bullshit combo, the enemies will have bullshit combos too. as for the long team fight, can't speak for league but those are all items you see in dota but more importantly its all late game gear which is necessary since by that point everyone is extremely tanky or have high dps so each death is earned as it can swing the game to end within minutes if you're not careful.
Woah hi librarian
Liberian less than 3
+2
Bro what out in the wild????
Thanks for the new bits and banter daddy
Yeah guys, trust me, I get that its similar to DoTA. I didnt miss that.
you didn't metioned it. So i'd think you did miss
I played a lot of dota and I still think my remnants from the ashes mechanics are what's carrying me.
Probably just thought it was obvious so didn’t bother mentioning it
It's just your reaction is the same reaction everyone from Dota expected Overwatch and League fans to have. "Everything is too powerful. The items are too powerful. There's too much CC". It's a very predictable video considering your background.
It just feels like you didn't do your due diligence beforehand tho. You say you get that it's a MOBA and yet all your complaints are intrinsic parts of MOBAs. It's like you ordered a pizza and complained that there's cheese on it.
Any game with an engine derived from Quake will have movement that feels good. John Carmack is the Prometheus that brought us mobility
John Carmack is one of the greatest developers to have ever existed
Multiplayer shooters wouldn't contain some of the greatest games that it has if it weren't for him and the entire classic iD devs' efforts
Real shame that his time at Meta developing VR tech ended with the corporation shafting him though, I hope he's doing well now
but still quake 3 arena has more fundamental and fluent gameplay than this casual/hardcore mess :-(
@@Maximiliankovic There's a reason why nobody plays quake 3 anymore lol
the problem with Quake is that developers that use it fight _against_ the jank like Fast Inverse Square Root and the game falls apart. Quake Engine works best when you work with the craziness and just do some error checking along the way.
@@trackpadchad239 Yeah, cuz it's old. If you just remake quake people would play it, that's how it works. Newer games get more playtime. That's why call of duty is the most played game ever for like 2 weeks and then everyone forgets about it.
5:47 Classic dota 2 moment where teamfights takes a century to finish and then nothing happened afterwards.
This is also just a low elo league gimmick where everyone has spell block refresh or revive items
Except that for dota long team fights are usually associated with high skill matches. 🧊🐸
@@Eg9yBoy happens in my herald games all the time
ye seems lik this game is much more similar to dota than league. you can see in one of the gameplay cuts that the game has been going on for 45 minutes at that point, which in league happens once every 50 games in low elo and probably evey 100+ games in higher elos. also the fact that every ability is so disgustingly broken is a very dota-like way of balancing the game, if everything is broken, then nothing is.
half of the players dead means nothing happened? in the beta of the game?
the impression i get from this video is that deadlock is a game with very crazy, in-depth combos and wacky item synergies that will be very fun with to experiment with and mess around with, but might be shitty once the novelty wears off and a meta starts to become established
this makes me wanna get in on the ground floor now, have fun before a meta is established and experiment and goof around, and then hope in the long term as the meta develops good patches keep the annoying stuff from getting too out of hand
Icefrog is onef the dev so expect wacky and drastic, borderline retarded updates, it converges into metas, but the meta is usually updated every patch.
i trust valve and icefrog with the meta stuff. Dota 2 never had a proper "meta" for more than 2 weeks at most, the game is so complex and deep that even if valve never updated for a year, people would STILL find new metas and crazy builds in the game. Its very clear deadlock is headed that direction too and some people might not like it, but the moba/strategy nerd are gonna go crazy for it. But you know what they say. A game for everyone is a game for no one.
@@raulfreeman313 There is even a time when dota 2 lacks massive updates and yet people find new meta here and there. This is back when the neon prime leak happened a few years ago.
@@user-rn4kl7uv3y the thing I will say about moba players tho is, they STARVE for change and content so much and idk how the shooter crowd is gonna feel about that. Maybe im just thinking only about tf2/cs2 fans who dont like change, but it seems like valve is not afraid of filtering some players out if it means theyll have a dedicated and loyal fanbase.
@@raulfreeman313 You look at TI2 era Lycan or 6.83 and you tell me with a straight face that Dota has never had a hard meta. I guarantee you there's some bullshit in almost every patch and the only reason people don't get sick of it is that they rework half the game and bloat it with a new mechanic once or twice a year.
I feel that part of TF2’s longevity is its simplicity. You have only (usually) 3 weapons to manage, and weapons are mostly balanced against each other. Even a medic running a vaccinator has counter play. (Which probably also explains why everybody hates sniper, since you have so few options on counter play).
deadlock sounds like it’d be fun for about a week before people find extremely specific strategies that make everything else completely useless and if u don’t run those strategies u might as well just not play
@@Bloockackack you mean to tell me Overwatch-derived slop plays like OW and has stupid game design and balance decisions that leads to straight up toxicity. Wow, I didn't know that. You're telling me now for the first time.
And it's low stakes. Dying once doesn't give whoever killed you a permanent cash boost that they can spend on getting even more powerful. All it does is take you out of the action for a bit. There's no concept of "feeding" to get salty about.
@@stevethepocketYeah, that's why i don't like mobas. They feel like gambling. Winning feels good, but loosing is stressful and frustrating
@@dyadyabafomyot1668 thats how it should be. Losing shouldn't be rewarding... what's next life sentence should be celebrated?
I have a theory that stuns in video games are designed to instruct the gamer that lack of movement is more deadly than bursting damage. Therefore being stunned ie sitting at a computer game for 8 hours a day is actually more deadly than getting punched.
wise words
Will Deadlock have hats?
I‘d rather have radiation poisoning.
It most likely will have hats.
Yeah the cowboy hat for bebop is amazing!
Infernus already has a burning flames fancy fedora. HOA hats on arrival
It’s gonna be a valve free to play title… seeing as they basically invented hats, loot boxes and all of that… yes they’re gonna have hats. Probably the best hats
in shooters, stuns are often so looked down on that they get removed.
in MOBAs, stuns are something that tons of playable characters have in their kits.
Not sure how that's gonna balance out with this game.
stuns work great in paladins imo
Yeah so far it feels like characters with stuns are REALLY strong now, even tho most of them are delayed in some ways. And Dynamo with blackhole is just ridiculous
Stuns in shooters are tricky. They're obnoxious when they're brief and are locking your aiming: like cree's flashbang in OW that used to lock your camera controls for
yeah, it feels like valve is trying to cater to both their shooter and dota fanbases in this game, and theyre getting along like oil and water.
Stuns are cancer and a blight upon gaming. The only PvP games where I think stuns are acceptable are fighting games and that's just because idk how tf you would make a fun fighting game without them since they are pretty integral to combos which is a large portion of the appeal of fighting games.
This feels like a classic Ster video. It’s nice and comfy…
that seems a bit reductive considering the growth that star has made as a creator
this seems a bit reductive implying that his previous content is inferior to what he has made after he grew as a creator
@@raamoo_ I apologize that this comment has completely destroyed all of Star_’s future creative endeavors it will never happen again
@@Nightflyermike Lol what is blud yapping about
@@raamoo_ Why are y'all so mad about someone being nostalgic over classic Ster lmao, you're jumping out of the woodwork to say "muh reductive"
as a moba/shooter player, this game is fucking crack cocaine. the movement feels fantastic, the csing/denying feels fantastic, the cc is obviously annoying but is pretty easy to play around ive found unless the team is REALLY coordinated - like 3+ stacks.
and its still in development right? might get better
You covered my thoughts perfectly. At the end of the day the simplicity combined with large potential for experimentation has been very enjoyable and I hope it doesn’t derive way too much from its core as the development progresses
too bad it’s a MOBA, which means that it’s objectively a bad video game
@@robertshmurda this
100% agree with the source engine take. No other engine has what source provides idk why company’s don’t try with it.
Because in 2015, Valve lied and said they would release Source 2 for free for all developers, but then they kept it private, only licensing it out to ONE developer so far. And older Source engines are incredibly outdated.
@@iminumst7827 Oof. Valve, while very good, do shoot themselves in the foot sometimes.
@@iminumst7827 thats because source 2 wasnt even redy by then it only got finished with alyx
@@iminumst7827back then they were still using Havok physics, it was in pre-pre-pre-alpha
I don't think source 2 is really available or easy to use for non-valve right now.
I like to see the goofiness of the game mechanics as the devs trying to see the edge cases of the game mechanics. Like see how far people can take certain mechanics and what kind of effects it will have, so that they will have data and knowledge for future. I think it’s good that they r doing this now with a bunch of different mechanics rather than later. People need to keep in mind that this is still early stage so nothing is set in stone and almost everything can be seen as experimental
Like how my buddy got his Bebop hook up to 88 meters LOL
I mean, they just feel like (and often literally are) DOTA items.
I doubt they’re going to completely overhaul the feeling of the itemisation.
this game is pretty much fps dota. dota is like this, and it makes sense that valve will go in that direction. and when i mean like "this" i mean that its just all a big game of rock-paper-scissors. everything counters everything and the entire game you try not to get counterpicked by building a counter to his counter and then he does the same etc. a very annoying way of balancing the game to any player that isnt a hardcore fan imo
@@zezanje1That isn't the case at all. DOTA balance is more of like a "Here is this hero. They do one thing really well, and in a better way than any other hero. If your team doesn't pick someone to counter them or mitigate what they do, or you can try to pick a different strategy and try do do a different thing more effectively than them. If that doesn't work, maybe some items will help but if those don't work then you better pray that your team is just better organized.".
I have found that this leads to a lot of games where both teams have asymmetrical strategies that don't necessarily counter each other but still play against each other quite well and a lot of times it isn't immediately obvious which team actually has the advantage.
"Like see how far people can take certain mechanics and what kind of effects it will have"
Every Dota 2 Players who has to experience every new dumb, funny, and broken shit every major patches or every year: "Well about that-"
It's the reason why Dota players still call their game still in beta. Always has something new always has something removed or gone. Even returning players think if they're playing Dota 2 or Dota 37 even after reading patches. So after Deadlock officially releases, I bet, the first ones who will call it still in beta game are Dota players. You'll experience Deadlock 2 right away.
OMG it's the burger food guy
he will never escape his typecast
No he's the diaper guy
Foot lettuce?
No its the guy who threw hot greasy bacon on his monitor and keyboard
No, he's the guy who pooped his pants ON STREAM to save jerma
~450 hours in, currently in mid Oracle rank, and I can confirm even in this relatively tryhard level, the game's still a lot of fun even with meta builds. The thing is, the counterplay mechanics in the game prevents item builds from becoming too static. The best players have to constantly adapt to the situation at hand and thus there's no definitive build pathway, it's always changing depending on the flow of the game, the opposition lineup and also their itemisation.
after watching a lot of Jerma's old videos i decided to see what Ster was up to nowadays and i'm quite pleasantly surprised. This is a genuienly hooking video and it earned my subscription despite never having really followed Ster's stuff before.
With so many stuns, shutdowns and movement options I feel like a point of frustration will be that counterplay is dependent on seeing you enemy. In dota or league, its 2d so everyone can see each other within the FOV, or when they cant its a gameplay choice, like with bushes that needs to be worked around. In 1st person you can get jumped with an ult from behind, or above and from that perspective you just get dumpstered out of nowhere. Overwatch kinda has this problem, but its abilities were less hard shutdown overall.
Overwatch basically has no hard shutdowns anymore except for a few ults on tanks and maybe Ana's sleep dart.
If you get dumpstered out of nowhere, the counterplay is to not be in that position in the first place. In my experience, controlling vision is not frustrating, its vital. If im staring at a wall, neglecting vision, i deserve to die regardless if its 2d or 3d. If someone crawls out of a staircase behind me, its on our team for not tracking that enemy and its a good play done by the enemy team. Counterplay isn't just what actives and abilities you pop during a fight, but also what you do before it.
I've been playing a bit now and the sound design tries to address that point. You can hear from where and when people are trying to ambush you. Maybe it is from playing a lot of PUBG and Apex in the past but I pay close attention to the sound of footsteps to know where my enemy is coming from.
very true, though i've personally been really fond of using some of the items to counter it like indomitable. they never see it coming lol
@@robotj6559 To my understanding, warding is not really a thing in this game, so the concept of "controlling vision" might mean something different in this game compared to other mobas
Even Valve could not make me really enjoy MOBAs, but its best quality is that my friends who only play League will actually play it with me. Definitely agree about the streamlined item buying, it really made a difference for someone like me who kinda hates that aspect of MOBAs.
by far the best thing deadlock does is let me play with my friends and not have to open up riot games client
Considering it streamlined is interesting, considering you can pick up more than usual and they do fairly significant stuff.
Keep them in league, we don't want them. Holy god please.
my thought as well, my friend group is basically split 50/50 between MOBA players and shooter enjoyers. This is has something for both and is actually bringing us together
@@Tory-JJby “we” you mean you?
Who is “we?”
I agree with the occult/roaring 60's vibe the game offers, I love the sign that advertises horn wax to keep horns clean like shoe polish lol.
60s?
@@vikingraider58The event that caused Earth to be full of magic happened around the 20s. We know the current game is set in the 60s because said event also brought a gargoyle to life and now that gargoyle has been breathing for almost 4 decades now.
@@TwoSouthFarm Ivy was awoken not even 20 years ago. And the game clearly is 30-40s, not 60s.
@@TwoSouthFarm I mean the aesthetic of the game is definitely not 60s
it feels way more like a 20s/30s game honestly
“Everybody is in this sorta free for all across the map”
Yep it’s a valve game
To your Metalskin example, you get Silencer, which silences items and moves, and when you think about strategy you have to add timings
The idea of having 8 activated abilities + shopping + levelling multiplied by ten players makes me stressed out just thinking about it.
From having played it a fair bit, you'd be above average if you actually were thinking during the matches so don't worry.
@@Ya0w lol
This game is going to be extraordinarily sweaty because it'll just attract that kind of population having all these mechanics to master, which makes the potential skill ceiling is so absurdly beyond high. It's fun for sure, but also utterly bewildering and confusing to me with my tiny 20hrs of playtime.
@@MasticaterTheChewer It's definitely more Dota than shooter. I have thousands of hours on Dota and picked up Deadlock easy peasy.
@@MasticaterTheChewer This point is even further pushed by the LAME fact that there is fucking HIDDEN elo in the game without even a comp mode. Literally having to remake accounts every other day because after a certain point the lobbies are so sweaty.
My favourite little bit is the candlestick head minions go shorter the lower their health is
I love the game, i have only 25 hours and played it since last week but already loving the game.
My Four main characters are Mcginnis , warden, Kelvin and Ivy in that order of playtime
My smite background kicked in and already I am loving this game
Also im enjoing just the pve bot matches as a Blue-collar casual
As someone that has played League on and off for years. At the counter part portion there are some champions when they get the right items early enough or just fed enough that counter play from certain champions is impossible. There's a funny champion that was called Mordekaiser who's ultimate is to lock them down in a special realm that's super small and don't let them escape (So it's good to use on Squishy Champs to grantee they can't run and you can kill them). The PROBLEM however was a funny little item called QSS (Quick Silver Slash) that everyone in lane against him would buy that CLEANSED all types of CC. So the combo for years was "Fighting Mordekaiser? Buy QSS. He ults you to kill you in his realm? Use QSS and run away (also puts his ultimate on full cooldown. The QSS item cooldown was also around the same timer as Mords ultimate. So you can forever make him waste/escape his Ultimate). Mord dosen't have any movement escape for his E pull, if he misses that or it's dodged, he can't keep up and secure his kill then. They did however fix this...by making Mord's Ultimate ignore QSS Clense because it wasn't considered as Slow/Stun/Charm/Root but it's own thing. It took them years to make this change. YEARS. I got a feeling on full release there's going to be a lot of balance changes around the items because it reminds me a lot of Dota 2. Which is insanely item active use reliant and may turn a lot of people off because very niche meta's for this game are going to be made.
it's kind of different in DotA. because if mordekaiser is in DotA. he'd be able to cancel his ult animation. so it gives a little bit of mind games to people. kind of like how Pudge Hook or Magnus RP or even SF's ult cancel to bait out Movements or BKB or blink daggers anything.
Or in Mordekaiser's case. he'd be able to bait the QSS.
There are already a hero in deadlock where you can cancel the skill. I forgot which one. I accidentally found out about it by missclicking.
@@gragalakaisel1477 You're unable to use QSS or Cleanse on Mord's ult anymore.
@@gragalakaisel1477 Worth mentioning that with Morde's ult, you can QSS at any point during the ult and it lasts 10 seconds IIRC, so animation baiting won't do much in Morde's case.
Riot went over a 5 year crusade to kill gimmicks. Most weird builds are over, most dumb runes and items got removed. Why? Because you had to keep those gimmicks underpowered or they were extremely unfun. Pyke mid, Kleptomancy, Morgana jungle to name a few.
@@34elusive read man............
This game has a nice community already; all chat and team chat is hilarious most of the time. That's all that it takes for me to move from League of Legends to Deadlock... period. I hope that people remain friendly for the game's full duration.
That's just because you don't get to have two flavors of russians cursing in your ears
That's definitely my thought as well. The game is very EXCITING and full of potential, but I am just not sure how that potential will be capitalized on. The longer I play, the more games seem to be dominated by very early laning interactions for a gigantic snowball on one side or the other, and when that doesn't happen, tend to get very ratty/split-pushy untill the one team boxes the other into base, and either rolls them or gets durdled out by small trades until the power script flips in a long game.
The better the players get, the less that exciting fights seem to happen, and the more it tends toward "victory by strangulation."
Seems like a Star_ type game.
Mentally unhinged and ADHD-fueled
truly a niichts type of genre
it really doesn't
Not really. Ster's biggest gripe it seems is the moba aspects of this game. This game is 70% moba. And the higher skill level you go, the more that percentage increases. That's why he thinks the game feels more gimmicky the better you get. That's just moba for you
Well what did you expect? A Jerma game? This one doesn't explode his house mid game.
Don't get me started on what's in a "Vinny game"
7:26 ah yes,thank you
0:30 you forgot the magic trick of making your money disappear
This was the only Deadlock video I watched and after that I started play the game daily. I have 700h in Dota 2 and last time I played it was 2014. I love Deadlock and I'm happy that you made a video about it.
PS. I saw you looking youtube comments last stream and I just wanted to comment :)
I saw that first vindictor feet thumbnail
My biggest gripe is that its just such a mess as to whats going on, on your screen. Especially during that part where you were making the example of it having too many gimmicks. Its just magic neon lights filling your entire view. It doesnt feel like half the things that happen in this game necessarily need a visual indicator, especially when that visual indicator doesnt actually say anything about what is going on, you just know that something is going on
Id reccomend turning graphical settings to low, cleans up of that clutter.
It is baffling to me that Valve, who worked so hard on the visual designs of TF2 and Portal to make everything readable at a glance, is fine with making a game that’s a complete unreadable visual mess.
Ster said people would want to watch this game more than play it, but I don’t think I can even get over that barrier. I could never get into Overwatch for the same reason… there’s particles everywhere and the game leans entirely on the HUD to communicate information because they wanted the game to be flashy instead of readable.
genuinely as you play the game more i feel that everything happening is very clear despite how it seems at first -- same for a lot of comments about how cluttered the ui feels
@@Dave01Rhodes damn, its almost like the game is unfinished 🤯, it also feels like the artstyle and graphics was completely overhauled not even 8 months ago 🤯. muh valve devs have fallen from grace wahh😭😭 #fixtf2 #myballsitch
@@raulfreeman313 look at in-dev assets for TF2. Readability was always baked in. Maybe they’ll overhaul the Deadlock art completely, but I doubt it.
I've been playing the game for about 100 hours, and I already get that feeling of liking to watch rather than play. I do like playing it, but I feel it takes an amount of concentration and thought that some days I just don't have. The MOBA elements of heavy CC and long games can get really grating to me personally, that a bad game can feel like its gone on for too long and burns me out. I have been made to experience the Deadlock Experience multiple times of like 20-30 second CC chains where I may as well just tab out.
That being said I love the depth of the movement, the depth of the builds, how everything feels interconnected. It's rare for me to not just latch onto one character and mainly play it, but in this game I've been enjoying multiple of them and I think that's a good thing personally. I feel that a lot of my frustrations with the game personally would be diminished if they were do cut back a lot on the CC. It's felt good to learn the game though, when I started 7's ult felt like the most bullshit thing ever, but now I can deal with it a lot better.
Overall I think Deadlock has quite a lot of potential and I hope it goes into a good direction. We're still early in development and I can't wait to see where things go.
your brain grows size when you play deadcok
3d mobas arent newthere are old ones valve sucks bc doesnt make source 2 public and free
feel the same its fun to watch but to play its kinda meh, i think they will make it more casual friendly in the long run
I think the stuns are a big problem as well, especially with what you are saying with the item counters nullifying some heroes. But I also think the items in the late game are really ridiculous and can help mitigate, Refresher and Curse are two good ones.
I had fun with deadlock, my problems lie with the fact that it is, at the end of the day, a moba and I never liked mobas. The learning cliff is annoying, and the struggle of figuring out why you are getting stomped before you can learn how to prevent that is just too much.
play bot matches, learn at your own pace there and then play vs players.
and remember, you win through cold hard cash and not kills, maximise the smount of souls you get per minute by taking jungle camps and taking lane creeps.
Seven being airdropped by Ivy was thankfully nerfed, his damage is now halved midair
I think all characters being able to act while being carried is a hard buff
To be fair, all the gimmick stuff is MOBA stuff from DOTA. In MOBAs gimmicks are just called builds.
Reminds me of that meme that goes "Our GLORIOUS builds vs their CHEESY gimmicks" (it's the same thing)
honestly the more he explained the MOBA bullshit the more my enjoyment of this game grew
it's fucked up, but it's kinda beautiful
Thornmail on rammus lol doesn't work most of the time but when it works it WORKS
Yeah honestly seemed like he got some mad value out of all that too, a refresher double black hole then eating lash's ult. Its also good to point out how that only happens late into the game. He would have already had to play like 30min of a much less gimmick intensive game, the real wacky gimmickness that comes in super late games can kinda be draining though. when my Dota games hit the 70 min mark its hard to not feel like the game is just a clown show
MOBA player cope to justify being distressed
Vinny: I'm going to try it just because it's a Valve game.
STER_: I'm going to reveal my Power Level on main,
Pokelawls: I've been playing with STER_ all this time.
...
Now we wait for the next Four Horsemen Event.
P.S. Yeah, heard the bit from the "Thank Goodness You're Here!" stream, alas.
jerma is a smite head i could see him being very into this
This is absolutely not a Jerma-type game though lol
@@funyppl if he played smite i don't see why he wouldn't play this.
@@funyppl That Nude SMITE streamer? Are you sure?
@@kona7043 The problem with most of these guys is that they're old (lol). Jerma is almost 40, Ster is mid-30s, Vinny is almost 40, Poke is 30.
This game requires an insane amount of dexterity/alertness/macro/micro/creep farming/soul denying/aiming/advanced builds, etc. It's nothing like Smite. Smite is a joke compared to this game in terms of complexity. (No offense to Smite). Smite is entirely on the ground and features slow, horizontal-only aiming with auto-lock. Deadlock has full range of motion with an extremely in depth-movement system, full verticality, and fast paced movement that's like TF2 on crack.
I can see people like Poke and Ster playing this game considering they're still hardcore gamers and such but if you've ever seen Jerma's Fortnite stream, this shit would be a nightmare for him to stream.
I'm 22 and even I have a hard time with this game, and I've played shooters/mobas since I was in elementary school. I'm not sure Vinny or Jerm have it in them, and honestly I'm surprised Ster seems to be this competent at the game. He must play TF2 alot still.
Would be fun to see them try it for a few games and watch as they progressively get more upset.
oh cool, a new Aeon of Strife Styled Fortress Assault Game Going On Two Sides
I am so happy that Ster is posting more videos here
I feel like Battleborn did this concept a bit better. It only really died because it came out so close to Overwatch.
I hope to see more shooter+moba combos in future, though.
fun concept
As a long-tme dota player, its pretty funny to hear complaints or concerns about stun durations. I dont see anything wrong about Dynamo refreshing the ult to cast it again by itself. My initial reaction to the game was that they were overall short or hard to pull off, such as Wraiths ultimate having a kinda slow and audible projectile, just for a 1-2s stun.
But then I realized that in Dota, everything is a lot more visible with the top-down camera view, with more unique polarized roles, meaning a support will often be able to have a full supporting toolkit to save an ally from a stun, or the player themselves see the initiation coming from various sources of vision and manages to counter it. So in deadlock, it is kinda hard to counter certain things
I think a big difference between dota and deadlock is the economy. Things such as duration extension and cooldown reduction is rare to come by in dota, the items are rather used to enable a hero to cast spells in the first place, hit efficiently and give defensive benefits to counterplay. Most items in dota are also medium to high cost, but built from smaller components, while also gaining item overall takes more time, and given priority to the core roles. This makes the item progression more gradual and slow, and monopolizes most of the direct danger towards 2 or 3 of the players on each team. While in deadlock, threats are hard to keep track of since farm is distributed more.
I think if they wanna really make the dota-like high power-ceiling thing work they need to make the game a bit more visible and maybe overall slower maybe
the i-m-m-e-r-s-i-o-n and on-demand nature of a gun shoot game makes stun mechanics FEEL SO MUCH WORSE than they are in crinjj babby click power up cooldown games
@@rawhide_kobayashi good thing stuns in deadlock is usually reserved for ultimate abilities then
@@MilkJugA_ I don't care how reserved they are, there is no acceptable amount. They were all finally removed from TF2 after years of suffering!
@@rawhide_kobayashi alright play tf2 then i guess
@@MilkJugA_ I will, I will!
I love the sweet genius guy!
Really appreciate the honest review.
I can now safely say that this won't be my cup of tea, but I also hope that anyone interested will get the enjoyment they want to get out of it.
My 2 cents (from an on-and-off dota fan who has played a little bit of Deadlock so far):
I agree with a lot of other commenters (who put it more eloquently than I can) about how this is very much Dota-balance inspired, which I don't necessarily mind. I think that with time/feedback, some of the issues presented can be fixed or at least compromised on. For a specific example about Metal skin, the closest example from Dota would be Ghost Scepter - You enter ghost form for 4 seconds, becoming immune to physical damage, but are unable to attack and 40% more vulnerable to magic damage. I think in this very specific example, if you made Metal Skin have a similar type of trade-off/shorter duration/etc., it might not be so bad.
But I think the counter-play and the reacting to choices made before and during the game are some of the aspects I'm really interested in. Again with the Haze example, Metal skin might counter Haze if one hero pops it for that duration, but that doesn't mean she can't sleep the Metal Skinned hero and focus someone else. Also the Hero who buys Metal Skin is devoting an item slot for a defensive item, instead of an item that could serve some other role. I feel like there are ways to play around "counters" and adapt, which will be exciting. I don't think it is going to be as rock-paper-scissors heavy as some might fear. Or at least, it won't just be a sure thing that someone is going to win if they buy X item (nothing exists in a vacuum).
As someone who isn't good at shooters (but can enjoy them - Overwatch, TF2-somewhat), I have been enjoying this a lot so far. Meta(s) will undoubtedly form over time, but balance patches and new heroes and items can shake things up and help keep different strategies viable, which is why it is important to keep giving feedback and breaking the game. Thanks for the thoughts/vid, Ster. Hope you continue to enjoy the game
same with the ultimate he showed in the video. He says that this ultimate can stun you for 5 seconds but he ignored the fact that this ultimate is a channeling ability so the caster is also being stunned.
Yeah I really enjoyed the video until he kind of fell into the “it’s unfair” hole.
The trade offs and builds you can do are what make the game that extra bit of incredible.
I agree with you, it feels like it has good foundations but it's overshadowed by the immense amount of CC in the game, it really strips away the fun
Star_ you are CRAZY for that thumbnail 😭
Star is dead, only ster remains
I'm sad he changed it, I loved the feet fr fr
What was it before
@@boomstickYT It's currently Warden ( just in case it changes again), but previously it was Vindicta's feet.
Phew, i got the good thumbnail
i thought that i knew this voice, he's the sidekick from the genius himself, jerma
league has that same issue where some champions can be completely countered by 1 item or ability. Characters like trundle for example only deal damage with auto attacks, similar to Haze, and there are characters in the game that can just dodge all auto attacks for a set duration which essentially disables your entire character; same with malzahar, he's like mo and krill in the sense that he can use his R to lock down a carry, which is like his one purpose in the late game, but you can just buy an item that instantly cleanses yourself of the stun and basically malzahar is now useless
this video feels like home, just got an invite, and have the game set to download. love seeing you active again ster, at least on the main channel.
The items were my big question mark and your assessment has me concerned. It's early so hopefully they reel in item power before launch
3:26 ENGINEER GAMING!
5:15
"But this is a Spider-Man with a gun, from a universe where there are no moral implications!"
"I see nothing wrong with this!"
"Well, here's a Green Goblin from the universe where everyone wears bullet-proof vests!"
Great video Ster, it's a good comeback to a style that has been nostalgic lately, and it's heartwarming to see it with a new game like Deadlock
The Source 2 engine unfortunately is still not yet open to the public, it is technically still under development even though Valve employees use it. I cannot wait to try it one day.
i hope u continue playing this and upload some shenanigans with jerma like the good old days
I honestly believe this game won't be an insane hit, and mostly because the game focuses on the best of both worlds from Shooters and MOBAs, a combination that as far as I remember only Super Monday Night Combat attempted (and failed).
I'm not saying the game would deserve having no players, and I'm also not saying it will HAVE no players, but it feels inevitable that it'll be a niche game with a moderate fanbase.
You can't force a MOBA fan to enjoy the shooting and you can't force a Shooter fan to give massive hoots about the MOBA aspect of the game - and that's totally okay. Deadlock shouldn't try to be League of Legends, injecting metaphorical needles into your veins to keep the dopamine pumping and keeping you playing; it should simply be a fun game with a niche community.
A+ analysis and well produced video. Your point of all the extra nonsense that MOBA's bring actively dragging the game down, and I super agree. As much as I love the art style and Valve games, I have no desire to get stunned for 5 seconds or be dead for 60+ seconds when I'm trying to play a mobility focused shooter.
Paladins has tons of stuns and honestly I don't mind because you can buy stun resistance. It does take away from buying other items, but it feels good being able to just buy the ability to just shrug off stuns.
10:07 king raja’s career is about to take off again
Aesthetic: don't hate it.
Gameplay concept: I'm leery about it.
The clip at 5:15: aight ima head out.
Really, thanks for as informative a look at this as I could hope for, but it does kinda confirm what I had figured; MOBA elements are my anathema.
7:26 best part of the video
Soldier tf2 should canonically just be in the game and the tf2 lore reason is because he has worked alot of side jobs.
items have historically been the toughest thing to balance in dota too. The solution there was to add things like items getting longer cool downs/shorter durations the more you use them, and items having a brief cool down if you've been hit. Also! I agree that things feel crazy when someone has a crazy combo or strat going but hopefully it'll be more fun as people being to learn counterplays and how to apply them :)
ive played several thousand hours of almost every popular moba, and i have a limited experience playing shooters, i managed to get gold nova 3 in csgo and played a bit of comp tf2, but im really really enjoying deadlock. it has all the strategy elements i love about dota while having a ton of room for skill expression with its movement and pure aim-trainer fights. it honestly feels like the perfect game for me
also i disagree with the whole metal skin thing, fixation has a spirit damage component and you can still do some damage through metal skin, i dont think its a really good counter. should also note that all the equivalent “counter items” like unstoppable, debuff remover, metal skin, are all much shorter in duration than in dota, it seems the items are not meant to be as impactful to your performance as in dota, albeit a similar sort of design philosophy of covering your weaknesses with your item choices.
I had no idea I was using your build! It just dominates and I love Grey Talon so much. Like a lil Windrunner!! The skillshot is so satisfying
I honestly hope this game gets a TF2 style casual mode. 12v12, drop in or out of a match whenever, no character limits, mid game character switching, and balance things like soul gain , guardians and other moba stuff to accommodate the players. Just let people do some goofy builds and fuck around without worrying too much, but still having objectives.
That sounds like absolute chaos. Part of me wants it, part of me doesn't. I just don't think 'casual' and 'moba' can coexist.
@@RadioactiveBowlcould be a hero shooter mode
Honestly yeah i will say having played it imo 6v6 just dosent work half the time the map fells empty but those teams fights where shit hits the fan is good fun but i feel like they are just so rare that i am left half the time sitting around doing nothing in the early game . 12v12 might be a slight bit to much though i think 8v8 would work a bit better or mabey even 10v10.
It's a Valve game, people will make lots of stupid stuff in it, I've already seen in reddit someone porting a CS2 map into it.
With all the dynamic movement that exists in the game now, I cant wait for someone to create jump/surf maps.
This has to be the worst idea I might have ever read
"My concern is that it might turn into a game that is more fun to watch than to play themselves."
I could feel myself dissociating just from watching this footage. When 2/3 of the screen isn't being taken up by UI elements, it's just a giant rainbow laser epilepsy hazard.
Babe wake up new Ster
This game feels close enough to Super Monday Night Combat, which I used to play and loved. But this video made me realize that this game is going to be way, way more complex and gimmicky. And as much as I'd like to get into Deadlock, I feel I no longer have either the time or patience to invest and grind that heavily into a single game. Getting to know all the in-depth combos and item synergies is a very time-consuming effort that I can no longer afford. As I get older, my quality play time gets more and more limited. Also, my reflexes just aren't what they used to be. On the other hand, I also feel sad that I'm going to miss out on this.
Thank you for this video ster, I've been dabbling in the playtest right now and wanted some higher level thoughts.
As a non-MOBA guy, the item system is really offputting to me, especially seeing how game-changing some of them are.
One of the best parts of hero shooters is that you can reason about what your opponent will do *at a glance*, without needing to track what item builds everyone has.
If you are familiar with the characters' skills, and have some feel for their cooldowns, you have all the info you need to pick your battles wisely. Items add SO much more information to track, it just feels overwhelming.
Agreed
it seems like that but for most mobas people can usually figure out what the opponent will build or supposed to build based on their character. after time you’ll think of certain characters and associate them with their respective items
The shooting and art style look great but I hear tower, items, lanes, and my mind devolves into mush
As a Moba guy, I have the exact opposite opinion as you. For me, if they didn’t add items, this would just be another hero shooter. And as you’ve said, Items add a whole other mechanic to characters, and as a Moba guy, I like that because that means you can choose to play your character differently everytime, depending on the situation. Not just play the same character with the same abilities for the whole game. I mean look at how bad a Moba with no items did(Hots).
@@raprap543 but hots was the best MOBA, blizz is shitty at marketing
I am glad even Ster recognizes Soldier TF2 Warden. Infernus is just a W+M1 Pyro
4:02 'LANDS BETWEEN' ELDEN RING REFERENCE?!!?!? 😱😱😱
sometime words are just words
@@UncleJemima let him cook
I REALLY like the sound of flexible characters without roles, and the ability to counterpick your opponents items. This is all stuff I wanted from Paladins. I also love that feeding is not a big deal, letting you enjoy the shooting side of the game more and it being more about strategy, counter strategy, and teamwork. These are all good things. Give me a kitsune and Im sold.
The biggest thing about this game for me is that it feels like home after playing one game. This is after me seeing the gameplay a while ago and not thinking much of it. Now that I have played it, it’s so far awesome.
11:12 This is why we'll have roles ... We'll need supports to bail us out of lockdowns. It's the same in DOTA
The Goat has posted
The stun mechanics sound absolutely awful. But I’m happy it’s not trying to replace TF2.
I feel like this is gonna have to compete big time with Smite 2 and other MOBA games.
Having some flashbacks to your Nosgoth video with this one. Glad you’re enjoying Deadlock.
Died 2021, Born 2024
Welcome back, Stunwatch
It's a good MOBA/ARTS. It's not a class shooter like it seems, though my class shooter friends seem to enjoy it unlike with Dota 2.
Having mega OP techniques, and then balancing them by including hard-counters is a good observation. That's a very DOTA-like design, and something I'm not a fan of. It's along the same lines as "if everyone is overpowered, no one is." But taking it too far leads to goofy, gimmicky gameplay, if I can use your word, and that gets really frustrating. It's a lot easier to see in fighting games, where everyone is buffed to the point of having a touch-of-death combo. Yeah, the game is balanced because every character can do it, but it's sure as heck frustrating and way less fun for it.
I'll never like having hard CC in a shooty game, it feels much worse to get stunned in one of those games than in any other genre for some reason
well it's obvious. Movement is your main defense in shooters. Not your armor, not your HP! It is the fact that the enemy will miss their bullets that's keeping you alive. Shooters are balanced around that if they don't have auto aim. As long as you are mobile you will have significant degree of defense. Taking away someone's mobility even for a second makes them like 98% vulnerable. That's not the case in other genres like MOBAs for example. You don't do more damage to stunned people in MOBA games. Landing 82 headshots in a row in Deadlock is kinda insane damage.
That's why the supposedly OP ultimate this video showed is not that OP. That ultimate does not simply stun you for 5 whole seconds, the caster is ALSO stunned. That's the trick with channeling abilities. They are balanced around the fact that the caster is incredibly vulnerable themselves by losing their mobility. Pharah or McCree ultimate in OW comes to mind. Very strong ultimates both in terms of damage but they will never be OP.
Completely understandable perspective on the items on items thing. It comes from dota 2, which the entire game consists of stuff like this. Item counters on item counters.
I personally find it quite fun and rewarding. In higher level play you're aware of items and their cooldowns, and your teammate's restrictions. You'll try to disable that item or get them to use it, so your teammate isnt countered by it. A sorta comparison is just forcing uber to be used. You're not forcing uber to win a 1v1, you're doing that so your teammates can take advantage of their lack of uber later.
I think most of your issues come with analyzing this game from an individual perspective, and those things will feel like less of an issue as people get more used to treating it like a team game and actually working with eachother.
So stay hopeful! C:
Plus valve devs have no issue making sweeping changes, if something really doesnt feel good in the long run they are gonna change it, valve devs (at least dota ones) have zero sense of the sunk cost fallacy.
This honestly feels like the only MOBA that I actually enjoy and I want to learn the characters.
3rd person MOBA + Gotham City Imposters!
Its fun and has a fresh smell in the moba genre
I got Mei walled into the enemy team by my ally McGinnis and saw the next eight years of misery unfold in front of me. I've put it down.
Playerbase with ptsd from overwatch is actually Deadlocks biggest obstacle to overcome.
I had a similar feeling in a match just now except my ally McGinnis walled a fleeing (and very nearly dead) enemy away from me. So frustrating.
As someone who in the last 2 years has put 600 hours in dota 2 and found myself loving to learn it, I am in love with deadlock maybe its because beyond my love of MOBAs I also love shooters but everything about deadlock is just fucking amazing I love the shooting I love the items I love the map I love everything about it and can't wait to see the full valve flavor of the game.
I really like this video and I really like that you're uploading on your main channel again, I will be here no matter what
Been playing it a lot lately and I’m really enjoying it. As someone who used to play LoL and a bit of DOTA 2 I think it’s really cool how much this game retains that MOBA feel while offering a much more engaging experience with the unique perspective.
As for your point about the game being less fun the more people understand the game, I feel like that’s just inherent to MOBAs in general. Everything is about exploiting things the opponent is struggling with whether it’s farming/kills/objectives etc so when you have two teams that know everything about the game it’s just a matter of who makes the first mistake. Personally I think this can make for some really fun tense standoffs, but it can definitely be really stressful when your opponent reacts to every play you attempt to make
Changed my gender at 0:48
GG
Oooh that jump item, it's a Blink Dagger!!
It's more like PA's blink than the blink dagger, as it's a targeted ability that debuffs the opposing player.
But for the record, there is also a blink dagger-ish item that you can use both to initiate and to escape.
@@Redstarka22 I didn't mean the "target at enemy to teleport", I meant the one right before, where it gives you a big jump that if I read right gets disabled if you take damage.
That's a blink dagger (the fact that the movement is not instant does not change that).
@@Lykrast oh yeah that would be force staff
3:03 me in roblox 2018 after completing fidget spinner obby and getting ice path
I was already not a moba guy but trying to get into Deadlocked was really rough.
Also that Tree of Savior music at the end, I love that game's music.
I’m a primarily moba enjoyer being a dota player of 10 years. Dabbling in rogue likes every now and then.
Deadlock was fun for me from a moba perspective but the shooter aspect really makes me feel the skill diff of not playing any shooters.
I’ll struggle to play going forward other than casually as the hours required to build aim I don’t have.