Harley-Davidson LiveWire VS Zero SR/S: Electric motorcycle showdown
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2020
- Harley-Davidson versus Zero, Livewire versus SR/S: REV's resident bikers Julia and Kai took the two e-motorcycles out for a spin to see which one is on the right track. Who will win the battle for the next generation of bike lovers? In the one corner, an iconic manufacturer swapping loud exhausts for electrodes, in the other, a brash startup working from a clean sheet with no emotional baggage.
ZERO SR/S:
110 horsepower
229 kilograms
Price of tested model: c. €26,000.
Harley Livewire:
105 horsepower
249 killograms
Price of tested model: c. €32,445
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Wow the production quality on this video is INSANELY good.. but you can't compare charging without knowing how the charging works. The "supercharging" cable was RIGHT NEXT to the one you used!!! You "tried everything" except for using the correct cable haha.The Harley should take under an hour to fully charge, and the Zero should be a little more than an hour. Around the track at the end, for a true comparison of what the BIKES can do, the same person would have to ride all of them. Right now you're just comparing riders. Overall the video was really entertaining and you both are fun to watch, but the presentation of the bikes was very misleading. Please please please make another one!
Thanks for watching and your feedback! Unfortunately, the Harley had a software problem on the day and so we were unable to use the supercharging cable.
@@DWREV Then why you didn’t mention that on the Video? That answer sounds just like an excuse for not knowing anything about EV’s at all. Really sad.
@@1983Pixels Relax chump, stop projecting
You are spot on, for it to be a more accurate comparison the same test should’ve been duplicated by switching riders, and averaging out the result. At least that would’ve made it a little more scientifically correct. But other than that, overall really great video production and the chemistry between the riders and their bikes was top notch 👍
@@1983Pixels I read the replies first and expected to disagree with the comment qbout the charging and excuse and.... you are 100% correct. They complained an awful lot about the charging and that would be fine.... if they knew how to charge them. If there was another issue then they should have said se. It's pretty obvious they were just ignorant. That's fine, everyone makes mistakes and no one knows everything but then afterwards ya just admit it and don't try and make up excuses.
I set my ride preferences all to maximum on my SR/S Zero. I find it to be the best way to get it all. I actually feel the Zero is very easy to maneuver. For the braking I leave my regeneration at max for coast and braking. I only use my brakes to make the final stop. The brakes will probably last forever. I level 2 charge my SR/S at Tesla Destination chargers and ChargePoint chargers.
"We tried everything to charge the bike"
Except using the correct charger. I mean it was right there.
Hey mvetter, I'm the author of the video and the guy who was driving the zero. We tried to use the lvl 3 charger with the Harley, but the Harley had a software problem and couldn't communicate with the charging station. We even got a technician from Harley on the phone to help us reset the Livewire, but even that didn't work.
@@kaisteinecke8034 What steps were involved in said reset?
@@mvetter oh that I don’t recall. My colleague Julia Dorny handled that as seen in the video. But even the Harley Expert said that we followed all the possible steps that could be taken without giving it to mechanic
@@kaisteinecke8034 that's an unacceptable copout for the "Harley Expert" as far as I'm concerned. I'd have forced a hard reset by disconnecting the 12v battery under the bike. 1 screw.
Very dissapointed by the Livewire charging issues. Seen simillar problems with chraging months ago in other reviews. They didn't fix it... Energica, please don't let us down.
4.3k subs and the production quality is what i'd expect from million sub channels.
Amazing, keep it up. The content is absolutely top notch.
Much appreciated! Thanks for joining the journey with us early on!
No wonder why. It is by a TV studio. DW is a German TV network.
@@sjokomelk Ah, that makes so much more sense, I'm from the UK so there isn't much DW content on UK TV
I came here for a 1vs1 video and I got soooo much more. I wasn’t expecting the fun dynamic of the reviewers and I love all the information given to me. I wish more review of items were this fun.
Thanks for watching, more from these two soon!
12:00 WTF? Going to the wrong charging station and not having a clue about this essential part of EV use is no reason to award one of the bikes a win on charging.
Finally a head to head comparison on these 2 bikes where... THEY ACTUALLY RACE HEAD TO HEAD! Thanks guys. Great vid
Thanks for watching! Are you tempted by either?
@@DWREV Ya both look great. Dont care for Harley as a brand in general. Usually offer low value. Definitely want electric. I really want a Verge, but the pre-orders they're taking aren't for US yet. No belt/chain. You heard of it?
Great video. Subscribed. There is a learning curve to charging but one should not buy an electric bike without first doing one's homework. It is not as difficult as you made it seem in this video.
`Thanks for the sub and the feedback!
For me ergonomics come first. What are the forward lean angles? Hip and knee bend angles? I do realize those numbers will vary based on height of rider but average data would be useful.
Wasn't a real world test but was fun anyways and I'd have to agree with the result as I've got an srs 😂 . Thanks. ☺
Thanks for watching! Keep representing that Zero.
Cheers Roadcraft Nottingham
Did you switch to sport mode for the racing? I would expect so, but since you only mentioned eco mode it isn't clear.
Hey Shankly, I'm the reporter in the video. For the racing we both switched to the sports mode:)
Silly "test", of course. But I Do think electrics are the future. But the year in which they outsell petrol bikes, they will be very different from these two. I would actually buy a 2016 - 2021 Zero S for less than half the price, charge it at home at night and use it during the day for everything but long trips. For that you still need a gas vehicle. I would worry about spending so much money on a bike which could become obsolete in a few years if a major battery technology breakthrough happens.
Interesting point. With all-new technology, there is a fear it could quickly be overtaken by advancements, Tesla's new batteries may be the next big leap forward.
@@DWREV Exactly, and for that money you'd want a bike built to take optimal advantage of such technology.
Both bikes look good and let's face it an electric Harley is a huge leap for them. However, less is more.
Brilliant video would love to see Macrais Z8X London Uk Electric CBT Z1000
Fun video... I wonder... Does the the fairing on the SR/S actually offer any wind protection? Looks pretty small to me.
It's enough to keep the wind off your chest if riding up right. No smaller than most sport bikes. If I tuck on mine you get the full benefit.
What is with the tape on the Charge port flap on the Harley? Did it break already?
holding the gopro
Yea Harley fix the changing part (maybe fast charging next time) and you might have bern King in Electric Race!
Hi Terry, thanks for watching! I'm the guy in the video. Harley had a major software problem which is why we couldn't charge it the fast way!
Make some Drag Race and Lap Time videos 🏁
Great ideas Sidhant. Let’s see what we can do in the future.
Julia DOES NOT know how to apex a turn or ride a race track. The Livewire is capable of a WAY faster lap time than that.
I love their chemistry
bellissima moto✌
This is entertaining but so flawed. The Livewire charges much faster than the Zero if you are using a Level 3 charger. Also, she seemed to be riding slower and not as skilled as him in the races. He is scraping his knees in the corners, she is riding safer and slower. So... not really helpful.
Actually with the Zero's Rapid Charge module, which is really quite usable in Europe, they should both be at 1C aka 1 hour to full.
Hey Craig! I'm the dude in the Video. Thanks for the comment. Yes, practically they could charge within the same time, but the harley had communication problems with the charging station which is why we could only charge it at the slowest speed
@@kaisteinecke8034 then ya say that instead of going on and on. That's fine but it is pretty obvious that's just an excuse after the fact. Just say "yup, I wasn't famiar with how to charge them. Oh well, live and learn" and everyone would just be like OK... Instead it reads like excuses in the comments.
You should've switched bikes for each challenge. Riding skill was not equal. Julia is a doll.
Thanks for watching and the feedback. BTW Julia is an MMA world champion ;-)
@@DWREV doesn't make her a fast rider as was the case here
Please add Energica to the test!
We will have to look at the Energica in the future.
Totally agree! We TRIED, but Energica didn't have ANY Bike that we could've tested 😂
@@kaisteinecke8034 they are definitely in high demand. I suspect Marchel over at Electric Addict would be your best option in finding one to test.
@@mvetter I was in contact with Energice themselves and they said that they couldn't provide a test bike. The sales person for Germany literally only had is own bike which he couldn't rent out. We can't take bikes from private people for insurance reasons :/
@@kaisteinecke8034 Marchel Bulthuis is a dealer in the Netherlands. If anyone could make it happen, it would be him. electricmotorcycles.nl/
Races mean sh*t for the bike. It is 98% the rider. I good rider on this track can beat a R1 with a 125 cm³ scooter.
AS AN OL SCOOTER FREAK THAT ADORED FLATHEADS, I'M STILL TRYING TO DEAL WITH NO SOUND! AND LIKE OTHER EV'S THAT ARE NOT TESLA'S CHARGING DIFFICULTIES ARE IMMENSE. PART OF A SATURDAY RIDE WITH PEEPS IS THE FUN ASPECT, I KNOW AT SPEED THE ELECTRIC'S ARE SUPERIOR AND PERHAPS MORE COMFORTABLE, BUT THEN WE GOTTA ALL WAIT FOR A LONG TIME; LUNCH IS EASY, RATHER THEN JUST FILLING UP AND GOING HOME. I'M A SOUND FREAK ALSO. THINK, AT THIS TIME, ICE SCOOTERS ARE MORE FUN, MAYBE.
It was marginaly fun to watch. But the charging. OMG. You have CCS on the Harley. That was the other cable. Why didn't you read the manual!
Hope when you test Energica, you do this the right way. That fills up in 20min!
Hey Jeff, I'm the author of the video and the guy who was riding the zero. We tried to use the lvl 3 charger with the Harley, but the Harley had a software problem and couldn't communicate with the charging station. We even got a technician from Harley on the phone to help us reset the Livewire, but even that didn't work.
Oh, oke,@@kaisteinecke8034 . That sucks. Well remember for your next EV bike. Energica does 22kW DC 😉
@Jeff. believe me...I really wasn't happy about that 😂 We were stuck at the test track for another 3-4 hours😭 Harley also said they were sorry 100x times
@@kaisteinecke8034 well.
EV land isn't without problems. Got stuck at charger's too cause they were shut down, didn't communicate. So I know it really suck wen it happens.
With my energica it helps to charge with contant on when the charger acts up.
@@RedBatteryHead Which Energica do you have and how long does it take to top it up in the quickest charging mode?
Due moto bellissime✌
Funny I got a Livewire because it charges so much faster on level 3. Little bit of a injustice to to a strength of the Livewire.
I don't understand why a company lies about the range.
Every buyer is going to do a test drive anyway, so you might as well be honest about the range.
How come you used a Dutch bike?
What jacket (model name) are you wearing, Kai?
You each should have ridden both bikes on the track for a real test
Made in the US but evaluated elsewhere...ugh. Can't anyone get a comparison here in the states...
At this point I only see electric bikes being good as commuters like going to work everyday where you have a set distance and you have all night to charge before each trip. As for recreational rides with no set distance or for road trips I wouldn't even think about using an electric bike.
Now put an energica experia next to those two .. and there is no competition anymore .. the experia is good quality and fast charging like livewire . But has more range and much better service than the zero .. time time time ...
just very expensive yet and a bit more heavy, I can buy a used LV almost half the price
@@fotoamgamgfoto3695 offcourse used is half price .. also allmost halfrange .. so wait 3 years and you have double the range for same price .. experia is a premium italian bike ..and its just as expensive for me to buy in holland as a livewire or a zero dsrx new . .. so actually its a very very easy choice
@@gmy33 what do you mean by half range? A used LV has similar range as a new one. I cannot wait for 3 years, I am a bit old want to have my last some years riding instead of sitting next to acomputer, maybe doing courier work to earn money on electric motorcycle and teh solar panels I invest this spring.
Energica has double range you mean? Ok but a bit more heavy too, of course LV is heavy amlost az EE with just 15kWh battery not 22kWh.
@@fotoamgamgfoto3695 yep your numbers are right old vs new .. if lv has enough range for you buy it !!! .. .. but dont count on too much charging on the move
Do they both weigh the same? The Zero won the drag race and it was carrying the guy. Is it safe to assume he weighs more than she does?
Well I wouldn't be so sure, Julia is World Champ MMA fighter so she has some serious muscle.
It’s safe to assume that
I rode both and I liked the zero better, better range, faster charging, better wind protection, more versatile, and most important less expensive! Zero all day, you just have to adjust how you ride.
Thanks for sharing
Missed third great bike off...Energica
Good choice! Hopefully we will be looking at that in the near future.
First of all, great video and very dynamic editing.
Shure you missed out on some opportunities for a better comparability (driver skills etc), but I'd like to focus on the charging issues.
Just to be clear, the infrastructure is a key factor for the success of EVs but shouldn't be taken into account if you're trying to compare the bikes themselves. In many cases the infrastructure is to blame for not properly working, even if the bikes/cars would totally be capable of using said fast charging. Just as a side note, the shown charging stations are located in Germany, and charging can be quite frustrating here since there are MANY different providers for the chargers and not every card/Phone app will work with every charger. There are only some that will give you access to a wide spectrum (well distributed network of chargers across Ger./EU) of charging stations (like "EinfachStromLaden" from Maingau). It would've been way easier for you to do the same test in i.e. the Netherlands, there it's more like "one card fits all", even your standard debit-card would work.
But enough of that, I think it became pretty clear what I mean.
Now I'd like to cut you guys some slack, since you're getting a lot of comments stating "you used the wrong cable on the Harley".
Even though they're correct about the fact that the HD LiveWire features a CCS-charge port, we need to be more precise about that. Because like the ZERO doesn't come with the fastest charging as standard so does the LiveWire not provide the CCS-option on all models.
If I'm not mistaken and you look very closely at the charge port of the HD (10:25) the DC-Ports of the CCS are nowhere to be seen (otherwise we could see two distinct large round pins of the DC-receptacle for the CCS-plug).
That makes me think that you never had a chance of using the full charging speed potential since you didn't even have the CCS-optin on that particular bike.
The HD technician you called (as stated below mvetter comment) could by no means help you to get the CCS to work, since the bike was not equipped with it. On the other hand I'm pretty sure that this technician could have given you that exact information if he'd look up the VIN of your bike in his HD-service-system.
Best regards
Max Jäger
P.S.: If you'd have switched the ZERO and the HD after some failed attempts tho quick-charge the HD on the Type2 plug, you might have been able to get some juicy 12kW of charging speed out of the ZERO. (the charging station used to charge the ZERO wasn't able to provide the charging power that the bike would be able to use)
Are electric motorcycles going to be the next big thing? Answers below please
Yes they are the future 😀
Next big thing? I ride mine since 2014 (117000 km) so what do you mean with "next" ?! ;-)
Interestingly, investors and statisticians listen to each other. Each discipline confirms the other's data. They share an interest in how the "Bell Curve" of when anything gets some momentum in a graphed exponential equation. That is, when something gets going, it does so like the proverbial snowball rolling downhill.
Is it the next big thing? Well...arguably that should have happened over a hundred years ago when people started putting batteries and motors in bicycles. It was waiting for the cost of energy to make it viable and that tied to performance.
Zero had been in the market longer than Harley, but the Livewire ride is exceptionally better in nearly all respects. Harley won't corner the market, but they are the first big player in the game as it exists today. I expect them to make a decent entry in every motorcycle genre from a moped to cruiser to uber cafe racer and on. That should tell you to watch for when Livewire goes public in a few weeks, it should burst high, settle down and be a steady performer as any other large motorcycle company.
Harley davidson OFF ROAD!!
CRAZY
11:00-11:01 I didn't realise that phrase was used in Germany!
I'd take the Zero any day over the Harley... oh wait, I already did.
Euer ernst?! Den falschen Stecker nehmen und sich dann wundern, dass die Harley Stunden brauch um aufzuladen. (TYP2 statt CCS) Mit CCS läge die Harley vorn... Es reicht halt einfach nicht der Presse die Maschinen in die Hand zu drücken und drauf los zu fahren. Eine Handvoll Infos vorher sind absolut nötig.
Hey Zero Pionier, I'm the author of the video and the guy who was riding the zero. We tried to use the lvl 3 charger with the Harley, but the Harley had a software problem and couldn't communicate with the charging station. We even got a technician from Harley on the phone to help us reset the Livewire, but even that didn't work.
@@kaisteinecke8034 Ah okay, cool. Then maybe it would have been nice to at least point out that it would charge faster with direct current. I don't really care ... I'm driving the test winner and I'm super happy ;-)
@@ZeroPionier Will do next time:)
no thanks. I'll take a diavel please.
LiveWire !
Well obviously as the test proves the Harley-Davidson has better speed to the line and better braking
Lol the girl made the whole video so much fun to watch
Didnt see that coming. Your both wearing orange and black.
Oh Boy, haetten sich die Tester etwas kundiger gemacht, wie ein EV Motorrad geladen wird, also Level 1, 2 und 3, hätten sie wahrscheinlich die richtige Ladestation / das richtige Ladekabel fuer die Livewire ausgewählt! Ich habe eine Livewire, und das Gefaehrt lädt bis auf „voll“ in unter einer Stunde, wenn an einen DC Lader (Level 3) angeschlossen. Die Zero kann mit Level 3 nichts anfangen, da sie auf höchstens Level 2 ausgelegt ist...
This is less a comparison than a demonstration of why it's a waste make videos about things you couldn't be bothered to learn anything about. Next time, find random people walking the street and give them the keys, it will be just as informative.
Dudes... first up.. i like the grading on the vid. cinematography also 👍🏼 And emotions are also nice.
But then... why do you do a testride on a small track or showing how to charge with ppl who have no f.. clue about? Even the ADAC expert talks BS. Ahhhh really don't get me wrong i respect your eforts you put into to create this vid. But there is lots of kinda "bashing" because you have not suficient skils or knowledge to given the bikes any rateing. I really don't want only complain. Please next electric testride, call for an expert who knows right. (like me 😎😂)
BTW i id not found any motorcycle dealer who let me do a testride on a RR, R1 or Panigale. Guess how the rating would looks like? Maybe there is a reason?
BTW again... I really don't like comments like this on my own channel. 😁😂 LOL but i just need to drop the emotions i carry after watching. I hope my complains will help you in a useful and constructive way for the next electric test.
You tell ‘em Lex!
Hey Lex. We appreciate the feedback and for watching the whole piece. We strive to improve our content with each video and will improve on the issues you and other viewers have mentioned in this comparison. Thanks again!
Hey Lex, I'm one of the reporters in the video. Thanks for you feedback, but I do have a clue about motorcycles - especially racetracks. Why do you think that the ADAC expert talks BS? In terms of the charging: It takes a lot to get used to the charging process and that is what we wanted to show. It's not like you just put a card onto the charger and you're good to go. Even when you follow the charging steps on the charging station, it doesn't work sometimes.
@@DWREV Thanks for your reply. I know, first time electric can be weird. Let me know when you do your next testride on a electric MC. Your vid will be a blast.
@@kaisteinecke8034 it’s just a shame using the AC destination charge port on the HD instead of the DC fast charge port. And not mentioning it on the video.
How come you're both speaking English when you're both German? I thought you would have both spoken German with English subtitles
Lol just because you didn't have a fast charge station you give it to zero? Lol zero doesn't have level 3 charge
Jesus, the amount of EV snob chuds in the comments are amazing. Cool video
..... 115,000 watt motor Consumes way too much energy even with gear reduction But that's what they do They know that most knuckleheads wanna buy something that's really fast But it's not it's not practical....
Yea but it didn’t need a charge 😎 and if solar charging gets better it may not need to be plug in 🤫😂😂😂
We're watching the progress of solar charging solutions and are waiting to see what comes of it. What are your thoughts? Are you optimistic?
There's something about a hot girl in biker gear that's nice :D
One day journalists will understand using the word "gas" when describing EVs sounds silly at best.
Old habits die hard, what's a good alternative do you think?
@@DWREV Viable options include: accelerator, throttle, potentiometer,...."increase current", "increase electron flow"
Thanks! I‘ll put these in the EV dictionary for us.
speed is dumb and reduces range.....
Just fooling yourself get a mountain bike or a horse simples or ski yaa
this was the worst 'comparison' I've ever seen. They should have swapped bikes at each event....
Thanks for watching regardless!
I was about giving a like suddenly i realized this is dw, so i dislike, great content anyway
Thanks... we think...
bikes still over priced
You two are novice riders and ride poorly.