The Problem with Spellbooks in D&D 5e (and how to fix them)
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- Опубликовано: 14 июл 2024
- Spellbooks are ICONIC to the Wizard class, but they may be HURTING rather than HELPING. So....how are we going to fix that?
📘See the complete SPELLBOOK rules overhaul, and the ESSENCE Wizard subclass here!
docs.google.com/document/d/e/...
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📖📖📖📖📖📖CHAPTERS📖📖📖📖📖📖
0:00 The Spellbook
2:20 The Struggle
9:50 The Design
19:14 The Scrolls
25:48 The Wizard
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Mechanically speaking, the Order of the Scribes Wizard is the only subclass capable of fixing all the problems of having a Spellbook.
The Order of Scribes actually puts the power back into your spellbook and makes a powerful caster.
Wizards don’t wear expensive armor…so having something to spend gp on isn’t the worst.
Sorcerers
But they can want cool magic items too. And besides, there not a lot of expensive gear for other classes...
@@mannelundin4614 Soccer players. Are we just naming stuff?
XD
Wizard MYTH-BUSTING
mechanically, there is a big difference between a spell scroll and a one use magic item, that being, the requirement for a scroll to be in the spellcaster list, and then the ability check required to cast it if it's from a higher level that you can currently cast. I think that makes a significant, flavourful difference.
Another thing I don't like! There is a reason consumables in video games don't have a percentage chance of working. Take BG3 for example. There is a very good reason they took that mechanic out. Turns out when all your items break and you don't get to use them even though you've saved them for the perfect moment, sucks and is no fun.
So yes, a significant difference for sure! But one I am glad to be rid of. Thanks for pointing it out!
@TheClericCorner I don't mind there being some restrictions, but you're right. The scroll crumbling and not going off feels no good. I'd impose some cost like a level of exhaustion for every spell level above your highest available for spellcasters. I do like the idea of an increasingly difficult Arcana check for non casters trying to cast spells above 1st level, though and success with a consequence for a failed check.
8:38 Just wanna point out, your spellbook doesn't HAVE to be a book. There are a couple magic items that exist in which function as your spellbook, no problem. Yes, it requires a DM giving you access to it over the course of a campaign, but it's not nothing!
Either way, these rules are very nice and I might use them in some shape or form. Kudos to you!
I can`t even get my DM to give me SPELLS...
honestly I could see myself using this is as an optional feature for spell books, if you are a nerd or a perfectionist and have the gold and time they would use the normal method, if you are a bit more learning-on-the-job or active practioner then you would use this method. I feel like it could be fun figuring out which method a player would use given the options.
Interesting, I’ll have to ask my DM about this. We actually recently picked up Helena‘s guide to monster hunting, so we could also compare the two systems and see what we prefer. Their guide actually also mentions essences.
For a creative view of essence.. How about a wizard with a rare case of Synesthesia? (Synesthesia is a condition where certain senses in a person are mixed, so they can hear colours, taste sounds, etc, depending on the type.) So, you could take this in all directions! They could hear words or see images that tell them how to cast a spell when they use a certain sense. For example, a Wizard who gets flashes of words from sampling different monsters as food, or captures their hormones which lets them hear scraps of forgotten chants. Heck, you could even have a character who gets these flashes from their sense of touch, keeping samples of monster hides woven into their clothes for when they need to see a spell again. The sleek hide of a displacer beast filling their mind with Invisibility, or the coagulated blood of a zombie ogre releasing waves of endorphins in their taste buds, bolstering them with a kind of False Life. Anyway, love the inclusion of essence! Good job!
Synesthesia as a MAGIC SYSTEM?
You don't need a scroll to learn spells from, it's just the most obvious way. You can also learn from another wizard who has the spell, and if you're desperate you can research it in downtime. Assuming your DM isn't an absolute dick, it shouldn't add too much onto the time and expense.
I've been working on a bone and hide crafter for years. It was also part surgeon. Making things out of dragon parts. Replacing parts of yourself with monster parts.
This is amazing! Awesome job. I cant wait to put this into my strixhaven campaign
Yay! Been waiting for something like this
Hmmm… my current campaign does focus around magic items quite heavily, so this might be relevant! I do have an artficer in that party, but I used the Hierloom homebrew for that. Fascinating though! I’ve always wanted the fantasy of harvesting monster parts for items and equipment, much like monster hunter! Honestly, a whole campaign or Oneshot based around a Harvesting mechanic sounds like a blast to me!
That's what I'm saying!
It may be a niche, but I know I tried to loot a manticore in my first campaign! You’d likely have to pay a lot more attention to monsters you throw at your party, or be good at improvising, but I think the result would be really intriguing! With the right players, it would give them such a sense of freedom, where it actually matters what monsters they go after, and it’s not just about the gold. Heck, if I was able to play in a straight up Monster Hunter campaign, with dnd monsters and magic, that’d be a dream come true!
I had a player make a wizard that tattooed her spells into her skin we cut the gold requirement entirely as she made the ink herself. As opposed to me giving her scrolls almost every settlement had a shop that sold scrolls and she could roll an arcana check to copy a spell she witnessed the casting of.
I had a multiclass rogue/wizard that cut up a spellbook and put it into a pair of bracers.
Did...did you just turn Wizards into Blue Mages from Final Fantasy?
I AM SO IN!!!
I have a deep and abiding love for magical items and crafting, but it takes such a long time I didn't think it was worth it!! If you overhaul the crafting system I will probably cry!! I have always wanted to make a character who makes and sells magic items (think a wandering peddler type) and I think it would be so cool to be able to make even one use items easier!! I think you'd probably need longer if it was going to be a multiple use spell, or a permanent one, or at least require a spell to be properly known and such (maybe expertise in the tools could make them easier or faster to make?). I'm quite attached to my image of one of my rogues sitting by the fire sewing a cloak while everyone else does other stuff at camp around him, for hours every day, but it'd be nice if he could work on his cloak and help out more without sacrificing being able to get it done
If you're using Attunement Slots, I would like to see Attunement Slots boost up to 5 or 6 as opposed to the main 3 we are familiar with
you can get the cantrip Nasty Splat from a dead goblin.
I play in a resource poor game, and it's fun. But it really makes you choose what spells to cast as some need diamond dust, or some other gold costing component. And we are often in villages where they have farms and such, but there's no potion shop or magical ink store. It would make no sense for them to mine for precious gems. I love your idea of needing three things and almost always only having two! Great video.
Your awesome big fan of dnd
Id rather have a different second level feature that actually does something.
Me too, all wizard subclasses get a second feature? The half gold to copy features are a bonus/flavor in my opinion
Also, about spell copying:
1 money: As a wizard, you have no aspirations of buying plate or a magic sword, thus, you probably have 1500 gold, that is 30 levels worth of spells, by the time the martial gets plate
2 time: getting into and out of heavy armor takes 15 min, so at the very worst, you can learn a spell every 16 days while the fighter is switching armor, however it is way more likely that there are at least some hours of downtime in which you can make progress. If you plan on copying spells from the start, and have the feeling there is no time, then you can always pick an elf and get 4 hours of study in every night since elves don't need sleep, they need answers.
3 scrolls: most dm's I have encountered run something along the lines of a magic shop every now and then and between that (and scrolls hopefully not being too expensive) and you reminding your dm that the evil wizard probably has a spellbook that I will nab from their corpse, or are able to copy things from the wizard npc against a small fee, it is generally quite possible to go looking for spells.
Finally, spell copying is not necessary for balance, as a wizard, you get to prepare one more spell every level, and you get to add two spells to your spellbook (the list you can prepare from) thus, if you want some versatility, you can. Or if you want all the ones you can't prepare to be rituals so you can cast them from your spellbook without preparing them, you can.
Extra spells are the wizards equivalent to magic items? So yes, every class has an equivalent to the wizard, who hopes the dm treats him nicely and gives him good scrolls. It is the fighter, who hopes to get specifically a magical glaive, or the rogue, who whishes for a magical handcrossbow.
"Spellbooks need to be books" There is at least one common or uncommon magic item that is a crystal that can hold the knowledge of a spellbook, so no idea where you got this from, flavor is free. The same way you allow a ranger to have a spellbook, a wizard can store their arcane knowledge in something other than a book, no?
ABOUT CRAFTING SCROLLS:
a 6th level scroll better take two months and make a lord blush at the expenses, as 6th level spells can already so things as powerful as semi-lichdom, Trap souls, reshape landscapes, be the only thing you need to win a fight, manipulate the masses etc. I generally still find it worth it to craft or buy 1-3rd level spells, and if it is truly needed, maybe save up for a 6th level spell if I really need it.
Your example for example allows every wizard to be somewhat of a sorlock themselves. As they could make a 1st level scroll (lets say silvery barbs or shield, since you can never have enough of those) and just keep stocking up on them until one day when they run out of actual spellslots, they still have a stash of scrolls to fall back to. You basically gave every character who can use this feature an extra spellslot a day.
Why did we all have a fantasy field guide phase?
I'm not a content creator, so I have never bought into the almighty algorithm controlling things.... until I found your channel a year later. This is exactly the type of content I'm looking for and searching for yet haven't found til now. I love your re-flavor class dives and will be sharing this with everyone who will listen! Great content.
A conversion of a non-believer! 😂
Jokes aside, glad to have you around!
If I may suggest themes for the Punk Series, may I suggest Cattlepunk (Steampunk material mixed with Western Material) or Punkpunk (My own idea, a world based on Angry Songs about things that make Angry singers Angry)
What about extracting magic from _living_ creatures, whether by observing and mimicking them (ala FF's Blue Magic), or pulling it directly out of them (ala FFVIII's Draw Magic)?
All in the subclass!
I've absolutely had trouble with this over time as I have to think about feeding my wizard spell books to copy. I've also incorporated a loose system for getting spells from monsters as my wife plays a tooth fairy in our Wild Beyond the Witchlight campaign. She harvests teeth from slayed monsters, puts them under her pillow at night, and gets potions for them the next morning.
Perfect example!
I understand the feel bad aspect of not having a feature be used most of the time, however Wizards are already powerful as is and any changes to make scribe spells easier is technically a buff and seems unnecessary to me. I'm not a Wizard hater, it's my favorite class which is why I know how powerful it is at base.
When a wizard can call upon their god at 10th level, then give me a call 😂
@@TheClericCorner you mean the feature that can only be used once per long rest, only has a 10% chance of doing anything, and has a one week cooldown if it succeeds?
10 is already relatively high level ANY caster is approaching god at that point.
@@banan9377 you said it. ANY caster
@@TheClericCorner I don't get what's your point? I think spellcasters in general are stronger than martials and Cleric has arguments for being the best caster but Divine Intervention wouldn't be part of that reason. I don't get why you would bring up Divine Intervention as if it's relevant to the power of a Cleric when it's basically just a flavor feature, if that feature was removed Cleric would still be at 99% power. Armor Proficiency which you get at level 1 is more impactful to the Cleric's power level compared to the level 10 Divine Intervention.
alright, counterpoint: the wizard is the only caster - specifically because of their spellbook - that gains spells as they adventure, that is to say that every other caster's method of spell acquisition is contrary to the point of the game, I would say a better way to redesign spell acquisition would be to have the other casters not have access to their entire spell list every morning and instead they have a limited spell repertoire that expands as they adventure.
also the spellbook doesn't need to be a spellbook, it explicitly says it can look like what you want
You should look at 2nd edition , it was the same cost , but it took days to copy a spell (1d2 per level) and took up pages of your book (1-5 pages for a 1st level) which increased per level .
The problem with scribing spells is downtime! I feel like people don't give their players enough downtime. It helps so much to pace the game, to allow the world and characters to breathe, to allow verissimilitude by not picturing the world being endangered every weekend, and to give your BBEG time to employ their tactics in the background. Wizards don't need to worry about buying weapons or armor, so it's fair to have them spend gold for scribing, so give them time to do so!
For sure! Until The time that they do want to buy Magic items, and can't afford it. Armor and swords only make up a very small percentage of magic items, and even then, barbarians and monks don't even use armor or swords either, respectively. But wands, staffs, robes, trinkets, potions, rings, etc? ALL can still be used by wizards, and can't be bought if they spend all their money on scrolls.
@@TheClericCorner counter to your counter the cost of scribing a spell into a book is cheep compared to the cost of magic items. ie the most expensive spell you could scribe is a 9th level spell costing 450 gold. cheep compared to magic Items. so your mage should still be able to buy that sweet magic wand.
Kinda making a system of my own, and I actually went with the idea that Wizards can just take a scroll, and add the spell to their spellbook over a Long Rest (no fuss), BUT it must be part of their Spell List.
Furthermore, if you are Proficient in Arcana, you can take a Feat that allows you to use any Spell Scroll, even if you're a Barbarian with an Int Score of 1. Otherwise, it has to be part of a Spell List you have access to, but hey! No risk for trying to cast a recorded spell, even if it's a higher Leve- sorry, Tier (Replaced Levels with Tiers as a naming thing)!
And lastly, I also made it so that Spontaneous Casters (like Warlock) can actually prepare Spells from Spell Scrolls, kinda like Prepared Casters. Otherwise, Spell Scrolls are only for Wizards, and like... Rogues or Artificers.
In the end, I made it so that Spell Scrolls aren't just backup Spell Slots or a new spell for the Player, but something that the GM can give if they want the Party to have access to a Spell or to replace an old Spell, without it feeling like you just bit into an oatmeal rasin cookie without realizing it didn't have chocolate. Because Heal is a good spell... but why would the Cleric try to use, and possibly waste a perfectly good spell.
Side Note: Yes, this does sound like 5e, and the similarity is intended.
i like the monster harvesting part, just the harvest checks should be some algorithm based on CR rather than specific creature. but I think this should also be for the other casters, so like clerics don't get all of their spells either and have a spell toolkit from their subclass. it feels like the wizard is uniquely punished for being powerful while other classes can be as powerful or more depending on the DMs ability to give out items.
I use an old house rule from 2nd edition. You make an Int. check to see if you remember someone talking about it. Then you spend as many hours as it's level creating it. Once created, you cast it as normal to test it, in 5e, make spell casting check, say DC 15, to make sure the spell doesn't..., make you roll on the wild magic table. You simply refine the spell over a period of time to eliminate the casting checks. Unless you really want to play a wild mage.
As for scrolls, they are simply spell book pages, same ink and paper, same investment of magical energy.
Magical items, I sit down with the player and we hash out want they want and how they think it should be made. And then I use the same rules as the books and scrolls along with any special ingredients, such as a holy symbol and pure silver to make a Holy Defender Sword. Or goggles and the eyes of an owl for goggles of Dark Vision
I feel that spells shouldn't be hard for mages, especially since EVERY class is now a spell chucker in 5e.
Was I crazy, or was that a Rattata cry?
Zubat lol
Good.
Interesting video but from what I've seen there are some problems with it.
1- Other classes continue to have 0 problems getting new spells.
Wizards continue to have to work twice as hard as others, plus a wizard is forced to fight to learn magic.
Of course this is interesting but in my opinion it could distort the idea of the class.
2- wizards continue to have problems with having to spend time/money on their spells.
3- if a magician loses his book he continues to lose everything.
As a master I have adopted a similar but very different system:
In my world wizards are completely different:
1- All wizards have 2 systems for learning their spells, the first remains the classic one given by the game but in this case these spells are called permanent.
This is because the process of transcribing a spell into the book allows the character to memorize it even on an unconscious level, this means that he will always know the spell and will no longer need the book to cast it.
2- The second system is that of temporary spells.
In my world magic is something tangible and is a sort of veil that covers the entire world. Wiards have a special characteristic which is that they train themselves to perceive and interact with the veil.
This allows a Mage to read the vortices and during a long rest the character can choose to prepare a number of spells equal to the proficiency bonus that he understands from the veil.
These spells are usable until the next rest but can be transferred to paper using the blood/essence of a monster.
Each school of magic is linked to a type of creature (example necromancy with undead) when a creature of that type is killed then the magician, or anyone actually, can extract its essence and use it to forge a spell scroll (if they know the spell). This process requires a CR monster equal to at least 2 times (rounded up) the spell's level. (cr1,2=lv1; cr3,4=lv2...)
The process of forming a scroll is also overhauled as it does not require super special materials (1gp for the paper and the ink) other than the "blood" of a monster. However, the monster blood requires time to dry and this time is equal to one day per spell level (lv1 spell 1 day, lv9 nine days) in addition to this time 1 hour of work is required to the transcription to do at the beginning of the process. The interesting thing is that each scroll can be created faster by reducing the waiting days by 1 for every 2 additional CR levels on the monster. (lv2 scroll with monster Cr3 is 2 days with Cr5 is 1 day and with Cr7 it's just the night)
High level scrolls therefore will still remain slow in creation because even the hunt for a Terrasque (Cr30)
it allows the creation of a single scroll and at spell level 9 this will still take 3 days which is not always possible.
This limits the overabundance of scrolls by forcing players to hunt monsters with very high CR if they want to write high-level spells in a short time and using low level spell is't a big problem for a party of higher level expecially because it require a large number of monster.
Finally, the system you proposed (for me) has another problem: This system forces wizards to fight monsters to understand their essence and thus learn a spell.
Of course for the gaming group nothing substantially changes but in terms of the world it means that wizards immediately become the most interested in being adventurers to the detriment of any school of magic or similar. I would see your idea of extracting the magic of a monster better as a subclass that allows you to prepare a bonus and disposable spell for the magician, but as a mechanic for the entire world I see it as complex due to the implications (even of unbridled hunting of a type of specific monster because it is the only one of that spell and also for a single wizard)
Are subclass reflavours still on the doccette? You started & never finished?
Soon
I can’t say I know too much about wizards, right, but I assume it would be just as any other spellcaster where you trade spells out for others. However, I feel that a wizard is spending so much time learning these spells that their knowledge should be so profound that they should be able to keep their spells permanently, I’m sure D&D Beyond doesn’t allow for that, but maybe the DM will?
And maybe to expand upon that, if they do not use the spell within 10 long, maybe they start to forget it and their accuracy goes down? I don’t know.
@@aesthetically_atlyn I hear ya! Prepared per day spells have always seemed odd! Probably not something they will fix anytime soon, but it's great that you've noticed that!
@@TheClericCorner probably not but a quick fix for it at the table is any spell you know you can cast up to your spell slot limit.
To mani single use spell is a problem and to many magic iteam is a problem is ok doing this tipe of ting but is hard for a reason is not a problem
I just don't give Wizards at my table spell scrolls. I don't care enough about pleasing wizard characters to offer spell scrolls that requires me to pour over what spells are in the game, consider what that player is specifically hoping for, and how that balances with the rest of my game. Wizards will gain a new spell at the same time as every other caster and leave it there.
I DO however allow my caster players the chance to create their own signature spells when they reach level 10. They can present one homebrew spell to me in between last session and the next. I read it over, approve/decline or give modifications. Once the final product is agreed on then they can spend time learning it if they are of the appropriate level to cast it. The time spent learning the spell equals 1 week per spell level and can be trained during adventuring (within reason). And gold is still a component. It has worked for me this far.
I just refuse to give full casters, especially wizards, more power than they already have. I'd much rather see martials get boosts.
so mages can get spells like a claric? sweet.
Didn't you mean QuinTessence instead of QuinCessence?
It’s interesting you really like the prepared casters. I much prefer classes that have known spell lists, and wish that there was some more limitation to the prepared casters.
I prefer your general demeanor over Antonio’s
He definitely has a personality 😂
Cool opinion personally I feel like both have their pros for me and I like pointy hat's demeanor as well as cleric corner's (I don't know your name cleric corner sorry).
@@electricorcagaming Ryker! And we definitely have our strengths and weaknesses for sure!
@@TheClericCorner thank you Ryker I'm not good at names
@@TheClericCorner with a Y? Oh I thought it was like William T
you over complicating something that most campaigns never need to worry about.