Digging through older Videos, and I found this Gem!! WELL PUT!!! I'm a really Old Fart in the Hobby. Started in 86! "Stock" was NOTHING like it is these days! 😵 It was a bit of a "Run what you brung" type of thing - and everyone either had, or was given, a 27 Turn Brushed Motor, with a locked Endbell. Even THAT got out of hand, with exotic materials, "special" lubricants, different Tire Dressings....... The Guys with more experience (and money), started measuring their Battery Cells, and started soldering together Matched Packs (before they were available to anyone). Then there was "special Battery Cycling", which could get an extra volt out of the pack.... Then there were the Guys who figured out how to "tweak" the Motors (GUILTY!). Some of us would remove the Comm Shaft, put one end in a Vise, and Skewed the Poles! On Brushed, Skewed Poles gave more Torque on the bottom end, to power out of turns quicker - and also gave a little more runtime out of the ARCHAIC NiCd Batteries!!! I remember the time when I was SURE that NiMH Batteries were going to be the end-all-be-all in the RC World. 😱 We were all that shortsided back then. AS YOU SAID - "Stock" will NEVER be a Level, Stock playing field - until enough People Jump up and DEMAND Change!! One of the comments here, "Make it all Box Stock Cars, Like NASCAR". Sure, they'll STILL be Tweaking here and there..... But if everyone was required to run with ZERO Upgrades, and ONE type of Motor, maybe, Racing - at least at the Club Level, MIGHT actually start having the FUN that they were promised when many of them started. Maybe? As for all that "Everyone's a Winner" CRAP from about 1995 to 2005..... That's another LONG, hard, politically charged HOT TOPIC!! Sadly, all we can do is Wait. Wait for all those Kids and Young Adults to FINALLY grow past that.... Needless to say, I couldn't be MORE against it!! I don't even know if you read comments from Videos this Old... But if you do, there's my $2.84. (I passed 2 cents, Paragraphs ago!!) 😜 Love your Channel Man! Keep it up. Carmine 💥 ⛽
I read it and enjoyed every word of it I'm 42 and so i was a teen in the 90's and Rc was big I loved it and still do I put it down for a long time but now I'm back and jumping head first into the short course world so we'll see how it goes and it was nice to here from an old guy like me with the same thoughts as me hope your still in good health and ripping the track or the yard up God bless.....
I race stock and mod. For me, it is not about skill level when it comes to stock vs. mod. It is about the driving line. Where a mod can triple or quad, a stock motor most likely cannot. This means that, for the same track layout, you get to drive it in two different ways. That makes the track more interesting and forces you to think more about different driving lines, and how to get the most out of each line. There are fast drivers in both classes, and you will not be wanting for competition in either class at large enough races. People who worry about the skill level aspect are thinking about the wrong thing. Regardless of what you run, you should expect to learn something each time. The knowledge you gain is much more valuable than winning a club race trophy.
Thank you this was the information I was looking for I appreciate his video but I was more looking for a definition of what the classes are requirements and or limitations
I've been racing RC cars since I was 4 years old and my family are the inventors of a company called "Bolink" (Many of you may not know this company but let's just say they're one of the OG'S of RC Racing) and I've watched through my 30 years of life the sport change in a negative way and what I mean is this.. "Pay to win" Yup just like those games you play on your phone. You pay more money to have a better chance to win. This sport use to be about sportsmanship and family but had lost its way over the decades. I remember a time when it didn't matter what chassis you were running or what "New" motor you were running, it just didn't apply to us back then. We were there to have fun and help one another and honestly it wasn't really wasn't about who won the race at all that was just our mentality towards the race weekend. Spending more money to be competitive isn't the answer and this is not what the sport was created for (Just talk to some of the old timers like Associated or Losi sr and they'll tell and if you can't talk to them than watch some videos from the late 80's or early 90's) Don't fall into this game of "I have to have the latest greatest gear of this year. After I quit racing RC about 10 years ago I saw which way the sport was heading and it was even worse than 10 years ago. I went out and bought a used but in good shape TLR 8ight 2.0 1/8 Nitro Buggy ($200) with no motor, electronics, tires or nothing just bare bones chassis for ($200) found a hardly used Dynamite. 21 xpe Euro spec motor ($60) and got a pipe, Airtronics MX3 Radio some old Losi RTR servos and all the other stuff I needed and finished the build with everything and I mean EVERYTHING as I started from scratch with absolutely nothing for ($450) give or take,I finished the build. I tuned the motor at home and a month later I drove out to the biggest well known track I could find and entered the B-Main. Within a couple hours of being there I had guys asking me what I was running because my lap times were only 0.2xx off the 3 leading A-Main Driver's. They were all running TLR 3.0 8IGHT and mostly Kyosho MP9 TKI3 chassis with Novarossi and RB Motors. It was very odvious they had sub $2,000-2,500 setups. I ended up Qualifying 3rd in B-Main (Wasn't use to track yet and needed a race tune) and winning 1st overall in the B-Main class. Was invited to join the A-Main Qualifying and Qualified 5th with taking 1st place overall in the A-Main. The guys had questions after the night was through and I told them I was their to make a point with my "Ebay" special setup. They were very curious to say the least. My point is this.. Racing is 80% Driver and 20% setup. The true goal to your car is to make it as easy to drive around the track as possible and tune it until you feel directly connected to that car, like your fingers are one with it. "MONEY DOESN'T WIN RACE'S" Instead of spending money to be fast learn to setup a car to be fast. I'll promise you that money doesn't solve your problems it never has and it never will. Their is nothing wrong with buying old parts and spending a few dollars to service them and refresh them. Look at a pro drivers lap times from a year ago and then look at their times from the same track but with the "Newest chassis" from that new year.. were they faster? Nope, usually about the same maybe a 0.00x difference and that's all. Pro drivers have a job to show off new products to get you to think that you need that Buggy or motor to be fast like them but the truth is alot of those guys are down to earth and will tell you that their isn't much difference. Those guys are fast because they themselves are fast not the equipment. We need to remember why we got into the hobby.. Not to win but to have fun and that's what we need to do. And btw these company's need to chill on their prices for equipment and we all know that. Placing a $600-1,000 price tag on a kit with no Tires, wheels etc is rediculous and kills the sport. Sorry if this was misspelled and chaotic but I'm on my phone while putting a kit together that I'm gonna give away to a kid I've been seeing at the track that really loves the sport but his parents can't afford to get him in to it. Gotta old buggy laying around you've been hording and collecting dust? Then throw some stuff together and find that kid that wants to race but can't due to funds. I would do it every chance I got but I don't have the funds to do so but I'm trying like hell to revive what this sport is really about.. Fun, Family and Friends. Love eachother and help eachother guys. Never let this sport die because it's getting close to that. We're missing the point of all of this and forgetting why we started doing this. Take care much love -Dave
Owned a Bolink legend car a long time ago.... It was old when i bought it and that was in 1998... the legend class was one of the funnest classes i ran, with Spec tires and motor. It really was a driver' class
I am a 54 year old rookie, just building my first racer (B5M).. I am glad there is a stock class to start out in. My eyesight and hand/eye coordination are not getting any better. I hope there is a stock class for awhile at least. I expect to be competitive, and expect to have a blast, win, lose or draw.
I’m 37 and have no idea what I’m doing, but I’m building two different vehicles to compete with and I’m also building 2 for my daughter. Almost ready to hit the track and practice my heart out.
@@agoodballet I'm 54, my racing buddy (for 15 yrs now) is 44, and we still get setup and driving advice from our top guys. We manage to win a race or a main once in a while (my buddy more than myself), but we always have FUN, that's the secret. and we've both made improvements over the last couple years. Don't worry about the "idk what I'm doing" part yet, this stuff is highly addictive and before long you'll be registered on *rctech* forums reading, talking, and "researching" anything related to: 1), your particular vehicle, and 2), setup options for track conditions (especially tire treads and compounds. Then you'll be buying stuff you think will make you faster (it usually doesn't), or at the least buying stuff for increased durability. Now THAT imo is smart money considering you have to finish a race to win it. There's also the "bling" buying of stuff like anodized goodies just because they're so dern pretty! RC guys (especially racers) are worse than a woman in a shoe store! 😅 (side note)...get your wife to go now and then, it makes the race bill seem somewhat justified! 😅 In a few short years you'll have the equivalent of a bachelor's degree in all things RC. Have fun!
This sounds like to me that there is to much of a mix of kids and adults. Since a lot of kids now a days have never been taught morals, (sportsmanship) and told no, it just sounds like there is a bunch of children throwing a tantrum and getting away with it, instead of what used to happen, and we all know what that was if your older. I used to race an RC 10 stock buggy back in the late 80's with my pop and buddy. Some places I would win and was the better driver, other places, I did not have the money to compete, but it was always about the experience and having fun. Who goes into this hobby thinking they are gonna be a rock and roll star, that is not what it is about. A few years ago I picked up a SC5M kit and put it together, what a blast! I also rebuilt a graphite tub RC 10 with all the best hopups I could get. I never got a chance to race it before my previous racing time past, but I am going to at least once. Do I think I'm gonna win? Heck no! But it will be absolutely be awesome to see that car on track, and i'm gonna have a blast doing it. I also can't wait to put the truck on track. Regardless of that, it sounds like things have gotten way to conveluted. There was always a amatuer class and a pro class back then, and it sounds like that needs to be happening. Maybe also be broke up by kids and adults. This is a hobby, have fun! Thanks for the Video.
+RC Buggies No one buys a spec car to race, at least not many would. There are too many motor/esc/battery brands out there. Ruling to one brand would monopolize the market to one manufacturer, driving cost up. ROAR does a good job certifying the specs of each brand. If you race stock, stick to ROAR approved parts (the list is on ROAR website). I went with Turnigy ROAR approved shorty 4.2 batteries, Turnigy Tackstar 17.5 ROAR approved, and HobbyWing Justock ROAR approved. These brands won't break the bank, yet very reliable. Agreed that this should be fun, not beefing up your car so much that someone getting into the hobby cannot win with their low budget car.
Jimmy Nguyen Oh no no no. I'm fine with different brands of motors, I'm just saying there should be no upgrades to the kit. Raw kit and drivers choice of stock electronics
+RC Buggies has a great idea. Heck, I'm low 40's but have entertained the idea of getting into local club racing. Practice is no doubt crucial to get better. And as Shortcourse mentioned or rather his buddy did, but they have A, B, and C mains to help group up the racers skill/luck. But, seeing how "Stock" isn't what it should be anymore, get rid of that terminology and just make a "Spec" class. With rcbuggies explanation of no upgrades to the kit, whether it's a RTR or true kit, no upgrades to any kit form. So you'd have a "Spec" class then everything else would be "Mod". And of course have the same category of Mains. Those people who look at themselves as "Novices", like I would, we would then fit into that "Spec" class as well. They should just implement a new standard, no one except the aftermarket suppliers would suffer, but even then, it'll weed out the true "mod" racers, and money will still be spent. Heck, could even get the companies who make RTR competitive vehicles that much more of an enticing option for new comers into the hobby if those manufacturers churn out some higher performance rides with value in mind at the same time. For example Jason's review of the RB6 RTR. I have it based on his review as well, thanks Jason. Curious to see how or if "Stock" and "Mod" classes morph.
I miss the stock sct classes and people, when sct really hit the scene back in 2009ish. I raced a stock class Traxxas slash, we just raced for fun, and fun only....
Thanks for the video. This was the first one I've come across and it was fantastic. I'm a 43yr old ex-racer that is thinking of getting back into it and wasn't sure where I should start. It's people like you that grow this community. Thanks for your time and work. We may share the track one day seeing I'm in Northern California myself.
I used to qualify last in the C main at my local track in spec slash. That was maybe two years ago when I was 11 years old. Now I am competing with other drivers at that same track for first in both spec slash and Stock/Stadium truck. I have always had fun with the hobby and I hope to continue to further in my years as a driver.
And the same your buddy was saying some of my best memories are not from winning but battling for 3 and 4 for almost the whole race. Each of us making one the inside or quick unexpected outside line on each other. My dad and I were at the track and me and him were battling for 3rd and 4th and on the last lap I made an inside move on him and the announcer was sitting there and screaming MATT WITH INSIDE MOVE ON JOE!! Oh I love this hobby. Lol
every time I go to hot rod hobbies to spend money I hope to see you there so I can shake your hand! I've been into rc most my life and never got into off road racing! I've been racing boats and bashing cars and crawling but I'm building a T5m and B5m for stock class slowly because I'm not rich, but I learn a lot from you and thank you for your help!
I raced locally here in Corpus Christi Texas and I completely agree with you on it's about having fun. I liked the 1/8 buggy class and had a blast with friends, new and old yet I stopped racing sold my off-road cars and got a RWD drifter and I'm hooked. The fact is I'm not trying to go race at world or anything like that, I setup a course in a parking garage and friends come out and just have fun. To me it reminds me of my first rc as a kid playing in front of re house with friends. There's no competition just friends hanging out, talking trash, and enjoying the moments. I love the hobby and will never take it seriously but I will always be right there ready to charge a battery and laugh till it's time to call it a day. Thank you for all that you do keeping the hobby going. JR.
Great content, when i was a kid racing bmx once you have one enough races u moved up to the next level, beginer- novice-expert and the track made note of the wins
When I raced 30 plus years ago stock was much better. You only had 2 motors to choose from, both fixed endbell brushed motors, either Johnson or Mabuchi. It was much more level field and price was kept way down. I think this is one of the reasons rc car racing is struggling now. Stock class is almost more expensive than modified. It's ludicrous.
i am new to the rc car hobby and i'm watching videos to see what this hobby can provide and even though i'm more of a basher and off road driver (just like my rc to do jumps and drifts on concreet or dirt ) i've found this video interesting and in my opinion (remember i'm a newbie that just like to see the car fly and drift) a hobby must be a hobby in the way that if you don't make a living out of it just take all the fun you can doing it bc like for me it cost me money and time and i just want to have as much fun as possible out of it otherwise i'll do something else and if one day i'm going to go racing i'll just go and expect to have a good laugh and be "i did what i can", i don't say winning mans nothing to me i just say it is just a bonus for me (of course if you live out of it or if you find your fun in being first and can afford it (i legit don't know if it is possible or not and i'm curious to know if profetional rc racers can live out of it or not) it is normal to aim for the 1st place and do everything you can to achieve it)
This was actually very helpful for me. A 13 year who had tried the track once and wants to race novice with a stock brushless slash 2wd. I want a b5 but I have no idea which class to build it for or even what electronics to use. Jason did a great job on helping me out with that. I plan on trying mod buggy
in my opinion, "Stock" is more equal opportunity, everyone has just as much of a chance to win as the next guy down the line... as with "Mod", its a matter of who has deeper pockets and the nicest setup to enable them to be better.. same in every racing sport.
Please excuse my absent mindedness, I've recently gotten more serious about the RC club racing here in SC, so, with every vide I've watched, I've learned more and more. Killer videos, keep it up buddy.
+Taylor Harris mod actually cost less or the same, i have a trinity 6.5T in a b44.2 buggy and it will spin the tires so fast and has so much torque it breaks the rubber off of the rim every time, i also have a b4.2 stock with a 17.5 d3.5 trinity that cost MORE than the faster motor. and last i have a d3 trinity 17.5 in a sc10.2 and its not even close to the speed of other stock sc trucks. all 3 have gen2 tekin rs or rs pro (dont remember) ALL COST THE SAME (maybe the trinity d3 cost a little less)
I was in the Air Force. I'm retired now after 24 years of service. But while active duty at Davis Mothan AFB in Tucson AZ. i bought my first RC10 and learned how to build and race. Only won a couple of races but I never went there to win. Was fun with meeting new people outside the Military. I remember this and please listen. One night I raced and came in 6th. I had the biggest smile on my face after the race. One of my racing buddies asked me why I was smiling after coming in 6th. I told him because the buggie i built by myself was just as fast...I did a good job on the build proud of myself and I'm with friends! Remember those days and still racing and still coming in 6th.... But still having fun in my 17.5/13.5 class.
I would much rather buy an $80 motor to go faster, and have the limiting factor be the driver. Versus $250 40 amp I charger, $40 power supply, $40 discharger, cut gears, titanium screw kits, ceramic bearings, and all the other odds and ends to get every little bit out of the stock car which the cost ends up being $2000 plus. Ill take the faster $80 motor any day.
Being one of those guys who has watched the evolution of radio control racing over the past 30 years, I have heard this similar discussion many times. In the past, the motor made a big difference between Stock or Mod classes and you had to have a good handle on throttle control to run in the Modified class. Personally, I have always been a bit "lead fingered" and not as good driving with all that power so I preferred the Expert stock class. We had a Novice Stock class as well and once you started to dominate the Novice class, you were moved up into Expert or Modified if you wanted to, but, you could not race Novice anymore. So, what you said about ranking drivers made sense. I have also seen guys spend a fortune on their cars in the aftermarket and not be able to compete with the 10 year old and his ratty old B3. Now we have the brushless ESC's and motors as well as radio systems with a near infinite adjust ability to get more power out of the batteries and top speed into the car. A line or even several need to be drawn in the sand so we can race and have a good time. I'm not a big fan of rules but if they help the hobby, I am all for them.
Your Absolutely Right about everything you just said. I am 45 and I probably will never get to be pro. And that's alright with me. My driving skills are at their highest.
There is a guy here who will race one stock class, to guarantee himself a trophy. He only races mod when none of the super fast guys show up. If Phend shows up for 2wd mod buggy, that guy will race stock for a better podium spot LOL. It was so bad once..this guy lapped the entire field by one lap, had lap times consistent with the top three in mod and afterwards posts on his Facebook.."Yea, managed to secure the win in stock today". Really!? He's just making himself look bad..everyone knows he just wants a trophy.
+Chester Copperpot that is the product of this have to win in order to have fun mentality.. everyone now days feels they have to win, in order to have fun.. if not.. jump ship.. to another class.. create a new class all together.. its very bad in my area..all these new classes popping up. just splits everyone from a big class.. literally.. my track.. size.. the lap times between mod, and stock.. are so close.. you could run mod with a 17.5. now.. they are wanting to split off the 4wd class.. with a 13.5 4wd class.. just doesnt make sense to me..
Not me. If I don't win I go home, analyze my mistakes or failures, learn a lesson, and go try again next week! But I'm very well seasoned, grew up in a time when if you didn't win you didn't get a trophy or pizza party! You got told to do better next time and it was up to you how to do that. Now, I recall every mistake, look at lap-times, etc to find a SINGLE positive thing and push forward with that. It's the "Champions" mindset that I learned from of all people a tennis pro. Win or Learn, either way we move on! Most folks can't do this and quit. I pull up my pants and try again until I get it right :-)
@YexaC All of us before the millennial generation. I'm 53, been racing rc off and on 15 years. I have 3 (THREE) trophies to date. At my local track if ALL of our crazy fast guys show up (3 or 4 usually) at one time I'm probably not going to win the A-main. But... I'm capable of finishing up front in the B, and sometimes even win the B-main. When I do, that was MY RACE...and I take it for what it is...a win. You don't get a prize for winning the B-main but that's ok because I know I did my best to win THAT race and if I bump up then great, I'll do my best there too (might even win another one some day).
@@danielgrobe To be fair, winning _is_ fun, and it feels good to bring home a trophy or ribbon or whatever your local track hands out. But it's not the end-all be-all like some people think it is - it's just the icing on the cake, albeit a significantly thick icing. If someone legitimately can't have fun racing overengineered toy cars without bringing home a trophy, they outright need to find a different hobby because they're obviously not enjoying this one.
As of the time that this video was published, I had been about 16 years out of the hobby - My most competitive period was the early 90's, when 10th scale on-road pan car racing was at its peak (I still have the same RC10L that I used to race with). After about a year, Ijust started running Mod because it was cheaper than running stock (keep in mind that this was in the era of brushed motors)! Series directors tried to curtail the issue by handing out a spec motort at big events, but you still had guys with the special bushing break-in polishing compounds, and motor zappers to zap teh magnets. Then there were the special throwaway low-resistance brushes, not to mention the comm polishers that allowed you to keep the commutator looking breand new run after run. Quite frankly, you had to spend a fortune if you wanted to try to compete at the same level as some of these "Pro" Stock class drivers. I even competed in a ROAR Regional here in Florida where the Stock TQ fell only a half a second short of completing as many laps as the MOD TQ!!! Perhaps with the advent of apps like LiveTime where they can keep track of a Driver's history no matter where they go, perhaps a seeding system for Major events might work... Or at least something where If they place in A Mains at Major events, they could automatically get seeded into an Open class. If Stock speeds today are anything like they were back in the 90's, I'm sure those guys would still do half decent in an Open class running Stock/Spec motors.
I think people are missing the point here. Run what is fun! Be competitive but don't be a dick if something goes sideways. I stopped racing because of poor drivers attitudes when they think they got taken out or even track conditions. I just mostly run practice days now with my son to keep it fun, but look out for the bashers.LOL! I personally prefer mod. I am faster with a 17.5 but have way more fun running a 9.5 in my 2wheel and a 7.5 in my 4wheel. I tried doing the stock car upgrade thing and it just ended up in a bunch of wasted money when it is just more fun with more motor. JMO. The point, have fun!
Im interested in racing 2wd mod SC and 4x4 SC but havent raced before, but my older brother (I'm 16, he's 21) races 4x4 SC and stock 17.5 buggy. He just uses a $90 charger, two different 100c $60 batteries, a $80 killshot motor, a $60 trackstar esc, and has a $70 servo and a few sets of tires in his buggy. He is one of the best drivers I know for someone who only ran the buggy 5 times so far. He isnt overly competive. He gives the other guys a run for their money (he beats the guys with $1000 cars) and he just has fun. To put it simply, my brother makes the hobby look good. I'm the same way for the most part, except instead of a 4wd sc and a 2wd 17.5 buggy, I have a 4wd sc, a mod 5.5 2wd sc, and a 2000kv 1/8 truggy
The mod and 4wd SCT guys at my local tracks are pricks. Even on open practice days the mod and 4wd SCT guys will run stock racers off the track. My B5M got broken several times by mod and 4wd drivers running me off the track and forcing me into walls and stuff. One actually got banned a year ago for putting his SCT410 through my buddy's 22 2.0 and completely destroying it as he was walking out to set it back on its wheels and telling my buddy to keep it on all 4 or stay off the track
I don't think we should separate from skill level. The faster guys have to work around slower guys in all motorsports. Thats racing, should be the same in RC. The fast guys have to work their way through slower traffic and still come out ahead, got to make them earn it. Elite class would be hard to get going tho. How many "elite" drivers would show up to a club race? Also, if it was a bigger race, got to give the young kid with talent a shot to make the A main, afterall, if someone breaks or has a bad run, he may win it. (not likely but it's possible) That's how racing works. Making an elite class would shut out the underdog. As for stock vs mod, it's a horse a piece, run what you like!!
I run an open class offroad. Literally no restrictions, except for it has to be an electric offroad vehicle. There's guys using old Tamiya stadium trucks racing against a $1000+ TLR 22 3.0, but it's still fun.
+William Snyder, i ran my Tamiya F103 against the 1/5th Scale FGs at our track. Once one of the guys said to me "i 'll watch for your car when lapping". Well, i lapped him 4 times in 5mins and he never pulled over to let me pass... ;) That was back in '95 running a 17t brushed motor and 2000mAh NiCd.
Excellent video. One of the best I have heard to date. I think you are absolutely correct. Everyone places to much emphasis on what the pro's are running. Get your setup and do your thing. Learning is all the fun. I also think that stock is promoting modifications more than it is promoting tuning and ability. There is no substitute for proper tuning. Well said sir, well said.
You were on the right track when referring to motocross. When i started racing moto I started in the D class and once i won 5 races got bumped to C class. a few years later won 5 more in the C class got bumped to B class and that is ware I stayed, I hit my plateau. other guys i raced with have since moved to A or others have stayed in C. To get the system started you can let people chose which class they want to be in because like you said, everyone wants to win and you will just shoot your self in the foot if you pick a class that's beyond your skill level. You can only move up a class not back. This could be done at a local club level with a simple computer system or even in a notebook, or like AMA motocross on a national level when you race at a sanctioned track you have to have a AMA card that they scan and it keeps track of that riders record. Create a national club, charge a membership fee, get tracks to become sanctioned... simple right lol.
i started racing 5-6 years ago, and was told to go 17.5, i did. i liked it cause it was easy to drive (i did both on and offroad stock), most about it was setup your car right, the right gearing and timing for your car....and have fun. well fast forward to about 1 year ago, and you need to drop 2-300 dollars more into your car ....not to mention rampant cheating in stock classes, 13.5 stators stuffed into 17.5 cases, mod rotors in stock, over volting batteries, super charging/discharging batteries...screw it so i went mod. .....on the other hand it is great for the industry and hobbyshops, stock racers buy tons of stuff to be at the peak of whats possible...battery factories must love it, cause i see racers with new batteries every week or two, cause high amp charging and discharging does wear the batteries fast.
At my home track we don't even have a stock class. It's all mod. Run what you want. We have guys that do reaaaaaally well and win with a 17.5 and 13.5 motors. It's all about the driver. I'm pretty new to this, but I have seen enough to know that.
I think it's fine the way it is they should just have it a little bit more segregated in terms of separating the very fast start drivers into pro stock or something else or just force them out of stock into mod.
IMO, it also depends what is going on at your local track. Mod drivers are thin on the ground at my club, so stock is very popular. Totally agree that the focus should always be on fun, and also in welcoming new people into the hobby.
Shout out to Horizon Hobby for being the absolute best hobby shop in the world. Their customer support is top notch. They listen and understand the issues you may have and they take care of their customers. Just good down to earth people absolutely love those guys!! This is Detroit rc Wurks by the way on my sons youtube.
I agree that stock class is out of hand. Getting rid of it though, or allowing something like ESC boost is not the answer. Stock needs to be a "slow" class; one where you have to drive smoothly and plan ahead; where you're punished for taking turns incorrectly and rewarded for driving flawlessly. Beginner class or not, if you are relying on the power of your car to make up for your lackluster driving, you should be in mod. We could add more rules and regulations to try and slow these cars down, but tracks won't enforce them anyway and that's what's *really* hurting the "average joe" racer. I'd rather see local clubs start teching stock cars, in particular, checking battery temperature, because that's what you charge at 70 amps for.
+Zach Miller how does teching cars fix the fact that guys can but $200 motors and expensive batteries that still provide a clear advantage? Maybe its time to ditch stock and go to SPEC Racing and Mod Racing.
How about this? local racer who runs dirt and can come out and race 2 or 3 times a year and keep up with the local pros easily but then move to another state and starts racing on astro turf and now it's 3 laps off the pace? Talk about humbling.
I always looked at stock class like NASCAR or Formula 1 racing. In theory cars are all equal only the drivers make the difference but in reality like Jason pointed out we are all competitive and guys will go to extremes to get an edge. This makes stock way more expensive in the end than mod with all the hop up parts and such so as newer or developing driver your better off running mod until you can make A-mains then transition to stock. I would also suggest that you could reign in stock classes by running them as a claim race. For those that are unaware that means that at the end of a race any other driver running in that class can claim your car for certain dollar amount. So if you ran against Ryan Cavelarie in a stock buggy you could claim his car (minus body, transponder & RX) for $500 or what ever is pre determined. I agree with Jason on the new scoring systems as well. Just like technology has pushed the sport from brushed to brushless ect. This technology will eventually rank all drivers based on driver metrics and will allow driver to truely be seeded by skill level much like a golf handicap does. This will of course not stop guys from sandbagging or messing with the system but it will be much harder for them to do and will be easier to find out who those guys are.....just my opinion. Good luck to all.
Years ago stock was a 27turn brushed motor. Why can't they keep the stock stock! Put life back into stock not over the top rich kids buying the most expensive gear and having no idea why? Stock clas should be stock inc batteries motors and CARS! Modified is where it should be about speed and deep pockets.
I have put more Money into my Stock Car than my Mod. No Joke though, I feel bad for the kid with the B5r (had no idea he should have got the B5m) with it out of the box trying to keep up. I was that kid many, many years ago and you could argue that "you need to go through that "losing all the time feeling" to appreciate the hobby" I say it's a sh**ty feeling, and kids shouldn't have to go through it to love this hobby. Somewhere, somehow there needs to be a limit or age group for the guys that are No Joke Millionaires and DUMP money into cars. it sucks for ME!, and I put a Good amount of money, and have many, many years of experience into my B5m :)
I race at OCRC as well and have been trying to figure out when to make the move to Mod. I raced for over ten years from 1983 to 1995 and was a top oval racer during that time. Last year I decided to try racing again and went with Off-road since OCRC was the closest track for me. It was a learning curve for me with how to set the car up and how to scrub and whip (I still need to work at being comfortable whipping). I'm surprised that being almost 50 years old, racing only oval when I was younger, and taking 20 years off that I worked my way up to being a competitive driver as quickly as I have. My thinking on moving from 17.5 to Mod would be in relation to my driving consistency and being comfortable driving the car, for me I feel my skill hasn't become automatic just yet where I don't have to think about what I'm doing. I would also like my lap times to be within a certain range and not vary too greatly and part of that is not making big mistakes. I've been told I'm ready for Mod, but I don't feel I'm ready to make that jump just yet. I know Mod would make some of the harder jumps a little easier, but I kind of enjoy the challenge of making sure I land right and carry my speed through the turns to properly make a jump. Those skills will go a long way to making me a better racer when I do move to Mod. Even when I was sponsored driver, I didn't expect to win every race, but I expected to always do my best and I worked hard at making sure my car was always in perfect race condition. In oval racing I wasn't always the fastest car, but I was the most consistent and I won a lot of races just by driving smart and not making mistakes. I always moved up to higher divisions when possible just to improve my driving. Towards the end of my sponsored career I felt I wasn't going to improve any further and announced retirement. My attitude is to drive the car to the best of my ability and to always improve my technique, car setup, and consistency. The biggest one is to have fun, I may or may not be a front runner, but I enjoy driving the car and hanging out with others that enjoy it too.
I agree with you about competitive racing. I can't comment on rc but my most enjoyable motorcycle race I finished 13th out of 21 riders. It wasn't my best finish but it was the race that taught me good race craft. We have people with no skill that spend 30k on a bike and expect to go quick. 9 times out of 10 the bikes on the market for sale within the year. People don't seem to want to spend the years progressing nower days.
Just got into 2wd buggy racing. All of my buddies and I run 17.5 buggy. We run 17.5 buggy because of the closeness of the racing. My buddies are all better drivers than me, but 17.5 evens the playing field a bit and allows us all to have fun together. Personally, I like the 17.5 class, its a ton of fun and that is what I do RC for in the first place, not to win a trophy that I personally know has no bearing on my overall life, like it does for a pro driver.
Hey Jason, great points man, I’m subscribed and u always on point. The 17.5 class is fun and it will humble even the best drivers, I race that class, mod, 13.5 4x4 buggy, stadium and 1/8 buggy. Many times I just run the 17.5 class because it’s where the most people are and it really helps me. You have great points on all levels.
Hey Jason whats up? I got to hold your tires and wheels the other night from mack winters and f5 chassis. Thought it was pretty cool lol. They seem like great quality! Nice job!!. Im actually here to ask how you feel about hobbywing equipment over top brands like reedy, tekin, maclan etc....? Alot of people in the dirt oval scene are running all hobbywing or hobbywing esc and a Oklahoma local team power products motor. I was just curious on your thoughts because you are big in the hobby and know alot of top drivers in the world
I race at R/C Madness, and RCHR here in CT, Our 17.5 guys are running better times and laps with their 17.5 buggies. I think the problem is that a lot of mod guys get bent if they get beat by someone who is running a 17.5 motor in mod class. Sure a mod motor can jump further then a 17.5 , but if the mod guy can't make the triple whats the point on trying. If you are running mod and come up on a 17.5 car then you should be able to pass them clean. To many mod guys here will go through the 17.5 guy then try to race them clean, and they have said so at the track that they will put you in the wall. I sometimes race my 17.5 in both class. as long as you have fun who cares what you run. To many guys thing their a sponsored guy and there's a contingency check for winning the main. Its club racing. relax and have fun.
I know this is an older video but because of what the real root of the problem is i'm pretty confident the situation hasn't been resolved, Jason you kind of said the solution when you talked about taking cars right out of the box and racing them. at the risk of showing my age, back in the late 80's when i was racing a kyosho sponsored car the stock class was just that stock, you were allowed to replace the bushings with bearings, replace the manual speed control with an esc, change the steering servo and change wheels and tires to match the track condition and that was about it. the cars back then were entry level cars out of the box now days there are stock cars that cost $500+ right out of the box and have as many or more works parts on them then we did after we completely modified our cars so in a way now days you have the manufacturers actually running the sport with the cost of their cars. back in the day you could get a car into the stock class for around $200 including radio, for that kind of money rc racing could be just for fun but when someone has to spend $700-800 or more just to compete it's probably less for fun and more for a need to win to justify the expense...something to think about!!!
Holy $hit dude I have been subscribed to you for a while now. I just watched a bunch of your older racing tips and car review videos. Your videos are really good. I'm not just being nice. I thoroughly enjoy watching your videos. I have not enjoyed RC videos that much since ultimate RC. Thanks man!
The only reason I don't like stock is because it takes too long to catchup... But I do think it's fair that if you put more $$ in your car it helps you win...
I just got back into the hobby with my son after over 20years out of it. Back then the stock motors were non adjustable, unopened, and CHEAP! As I recall ROAR had the msrp capped at $27. Now you have the exact opposite so it’s like the Wild West. Yes back in the day there were a few cheats, but at the big races in stock you got hand out motors so it was fairly even. I have seen some cars at the track that are hard to tell from mod they are so fast. What happened to Limitations on the MSRP for all motors (modifieds were capped at $80). It makes it tough to get in the hobby as a new racer when once you get the car set up and driving down you then need expensive motors and walk a fine line on high amp charging/ discharging.
excellent point about getting back to the point--having fun. I've just gotten into this, and I guess I'm lucky that I don't expect to win--hell, I'm still looking for my first A-main (which is gonna be awesome!). My club runs an open (run what you brung) novice class which is a lot of fun to watch...but a bit of a bash fest. I find I do better racing, losing to , and learning from the faster guys in pro-2.
Where is the clapping hands emoji when I need it! Great video and you nailed it on the head. Coming from a guy that has had that stupid mentality in the past and I had to take a year off because I stopped having fun. Now I'm having fun again and this is exactly why. I'm going with the right mentality.
I'm 46 and I fly rc aircraft. I am just getting ready to get in to rc cars and I will do it for fun, but I agree with you people are forgetting why they do it
I miss the old days where classes were split up by your skill like running beginner sportsman and expert. I loved the days where if you wanted to race stock only thing people changed were electronic and that was it. At my old track they made it so if you wanted to move up in skill level you had to win so many races in that class before you could move up. Novices was 27 turn only but any car you had then you could jump into what ever class your car was. I started out with a rc10b3 when I was in middle school in 2000 and only a few years after that the track died. I do have a 2 tracks near me now but one shop is full of disrespectful people and the only class that is good to run in is 1/8 buggy and the other track is a small indoor track and we really only run 1/12 and latrax rally cars in a "spec" class. Nice thing about the rally class is the car flips so much changing anything on the car doesn't really make it any faster so it's an all drivers class which is so much fun. If I ever get back into off-road I'm sticking with 17.5 but just staying with a stock car. I can't stand spending a ton of money on a car to just go a tiny bit faster.
I think the answer to stock vs mod is a spec tire for stock. Level the playing field with the tires. All the go fast goodies will not help if the tires are not up to par. Use a spec tire that works well but not great for your track.
Hello sir and Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family. This subject matter is a small part of a much larger problem that infects our society as a whole. Parents griping at coaches about playtime. My little (who's hisface) should get a trophy too. So many of just about every conceivable program involving children now teach them to expect something for nothing. From what you are saying, it has found its way into what once was a full time fun thing to do. Fun food and fellowship is now gimme mine, no I don't have to share and who cares. I'm soon to be 64 come Feb. I have watched the societal downfall in slow motion as child rearing became the new sport for life. Now what we have is what you so eloquently stated in people showing up expecting to win just because they in fact just showed up. Skills have nothing to do with it. Taught expectation has everything to do with it. Your opinion is actually a well stated diagnosis of a much larger problem. God Bless you, please continue to share your opinions as I would have to support them being that they are as honest as anyone with eyes and ears would know the truth of what you say. Big Poppa Phill.
Man u said this perfect!!! I could not said it better myself. I agree with u 100 perecent!! What is blinky. I ran stock with a jrx2 back in the 90s with a 7 cell nicad lol i ran a 27t in it lol the thing with people in my track is sure there is 17.5 and 10.5 but there is open class too. The novice it a demo derby. The thing is these people want to over power there shit and cant drive. I can run a slower motor and as lo.g as ur consistent u will beat them. Dont wreck and stay consistent is key
Perry Codes I just turned 45, still lol when a women says "Wood", finish strangers sentences with "that's what she said" so I guess age is purely in your mindset :p
Great Video. I have to agree with you on sorting guys out by skill level. I race Stock Buggy and at my track it is very popular. I also believe that RC is just a hobby and that we should just have fun doing it.
I raced stock for 3 years. It took me two to podium. The DAY I podium'd I started getting called a Sandbagger. The following weekend I finished 6th. All this time I adored the competition of chasing down someone and only making up time by cornering closer than him. That is true stock racing. STOCK CARS. Stock racing is wonderful. I love it. However, I loathe what it has become. A rich class who will stop at nothing to win a piece of plastic. It is a cheater class in an ocean of "gray zone" and has needed to be snuffed out years ago. It's been left for whatever reason by tracks and overseeing bodies (My opinion due to the money it brings in) and now it is a mangled corpse of a class. Rookie stock, Sportsman stock, Expert stock? Give me a break. All that did was have people jump down into sportsman to assure their podium finish. You just tripled the amount of problems. I'm pessimistic because the class I loved is gone. It's an offense I haven't forgotten with my puffed reedy batteries, 3 year old Mach 2 reedy, and stock B5m car. RIP STOCK
You just took the wind out of my sail, Just Kidding, me being in my 50’s and just starting into this sport I can put a lot of money towards a car but as you said a person, like myself who currently does not have the needed skills, will probably be fixing a high end car more then racing one. Don’t get me wrong, next month I know I’ll be staying up with and racing the best of the best😂🤣😂. All joking aside just like full size cars this debate is old and ongoing. When it comes down to it, skill is earned and not just in driving but in vehicle set up Etc. My take on it is this sport is about having fun. I hope to become competitive at some point but if not I’ll enjoy those around me and be the best I can be. Thanks for your in-site!
great video man keep up the good work i used to race with mayfield at srs and i always run 13.5 which was the stock class back when i raced and i loved it
I could make a hand out 27x1 look like a 17 turn (brushed) and still could. It all came down to the hardest Trinity springs on the positive and a medium spring on the negative, a good bearing reamer, and Mobile 1. Oh, and the trick brush cut :-) my dad invented that eventually Mike Reedy copied and sold 1,000,000 pairs of! LOL! I was on AE/REEDY at the time so could care less! My dad and I also designed and manufactured a magnet zapper that would put the gauss back on the magnets; every race. We sold it for around $300 and it was hand built in AMERICA. Trinity wanted to copy and sell it but didn't want to pay my dad $10,000 K for the design so it was never mass produced. I'm PROUD to say I never had to cheat to win a stock race. My dad and I helped change the rules to include rebuild able stock motors so you could cut the comm. He also proved the NORRCA "Stock Cop" that checked resistance was a sham. My dad, who can wind brushed motors, would use 23 x 8 with some super small wires and it would measure the same internal ohms and beat "Stock Cop". He also could pop the then fixed endbells and had a trick press that could push the tabs back without damage. He did this at a NORRCA Race, passed, won his race, then grabbed the mic and announced he was disqualified because he had a modified motor. JR Turned white. I laughed and my dad was banned from NORRCA forever. He popped the endbell and unwound the motor in front of 500 racers that day! Yes, he cheated but only to prove a point to JR Stitman that STOCK COP SUCKED; and that led to the rules being changed to include the rebuild able stock motors of the day. I just laughed and raced modified. Cheating isn't a factor in OPEN CLASS because you can run anything. So the ONLY way to go faster is to actually get better as a driver, mechanic, etc...not just a $150 motor! But, stock class will continue to grow and folks will do what Jason said and throw $2500 at a kit. I'll buy a RTR, tune the chassis, run an over the counter motor, blinky mode speedo, and still win (I'm doing that now and the locals are PISSED!) Why? Because I race modified...stock is slow motion modified to my brain. GB
I'm sorry but age has nothing to do with it! It does not not matter how old you are, it's just down to how committed you are and how much you put in to how much you will get back from it. Don't ever give up.
In the 80's I ran both stock and modified with stock motor. Local racing non professional and won a lot of races. Never had the fastest car but concentrated on driving smooth. What made me quit was I saw even back then the cost going up like crazy. I have raced dirt kart oval and Mini sprints. Racers are their own worst enemy that always want to go faster then the next guy and drive the costs up like crazy. Racers just don't have the restraint to keep it simple and keep costs down. And manufactures are their trying to outdo each other as well. It's impossible to keep the costs down.
One reason I don't do allot of club races is because its not fun sometimes. You hit someone on accident and they get all mad, like bro, I didn't try to hit you, I'm sorry...I love track practice time, people aren't as serious
mod is far more expensive nowadays. mod is always applied to drift cars and buggies because it can provide larger amperes for slipping. Your RC rear wheels most likely slip (drift) at cornering, and the faster (higher rpm) it can, the higher oversteering angle it does. That is it at all.
Regarding splitting classes, "it shouldn't be done because it causes everyone to expect to win" is a bad argument because it makes an unfalsifiable claim - that EVERYONE expects to win. An unfalsifiable claim is one that cannot be proved or disproved, either due to a lack of evidence either way or due to its inherently subjective nature. That being said, I do agree that things can sometimes go overboard. We don't need multiple mod classes, we don't need a separate class for each chassis layout in a particular vehicle class, etc. But splitting Stock _specifically_ based on skill level needs to be done _because_ some people go crazy with trying to squeeze every last bit of speed out of their stock-class cars. Mod is unsuitable for beginners for the same reason 1/10th scale nitro truck flopped as a feeder class for the big 1/8th scale cars - too much power for someone who's still learning throttle control. Not everyone can be a winner, but new drivers should not be forced to go up against people running $2000+ cars with ceramic bearings and carbon fiber suspension components, nor should they be forced to drive something outside of their capabilities in order to not have to go up against those people.
I think they should do it like motox. A B C. Its simple. I just started the rc thing last year so my son and I could enjoy it in the winter and some summer. Im in Mn. but we really enjoy motox. I was tryn to figure out what motor to start out with. everyone told me either mod or stock. I ended up with both. It would have been nice just to have it simpler since Now I have 4 instead of 2 trks and buggies. My son is 10 and Im 45.we just like to hit the pratices and have fun racing during pratice. I love the b5m
Great vid. I just started watching your vids and I am enjoying them very much. I agree with you on the level class. I used to race a little years ago and I want to get back into it now. My problem is that Im not that good and I feel bad when I get in the way of the good drivers. I would love to have a class for people with the same level as myself. I think it would be much more fun knowing if I make a mistake its not going to effect the guy or girl that is winning the race or has a chance of winning the race. Keep up the good work. Take care.
So what I’m getting out of this is stock is building a kit, throwing electronics in it and racing. While mod is building a kit, putting electronics in it and changing out heavy parts for lighter parts and making your car be as light as possible to make it go as fast as possible. Is that accurate?
Just found your channel and it's great ! Love the way you explain stuff and very informative you make it make sense keep up good work subbed for life Cheers
I would recommend taking a page out of the book from Tennis. They have individual rankings and a system that allows for elite players to stay on the tour and for up and comers to get their shot. Also fans and racers could know who is top 10 in the world at any given time.
We need a part 2 to this, would love to hear your thoughts and opinions 7 years later @shortcourseworld
thank you, i wanted to comment the same thing.
Yes
Digging through older Videos, and I found this Gem!!
WELL PUT!!! I'm a really Old Fart in the Hobby. Started in 86! "Stock" was NOTHING like it is these days! 😵 It was a bit of a "Run what you brung" type of thing - and everyone either had, or was given, a 27 Turn Brushed Motor, with a locked Endbell.
Even THAT got out of hand, with exotic materials, "special" lubricants, different Tire Dressings.......
The Guys with more experience (and money), started measuring their Battery Cells, and started soldering together Matched Packs (before they were available to anyone). Then there was "special Battery Cycling", which could get an extra volt out of the pack....
Then there were the Guys who figured out how to "tweak" the Motors (GUILTY!). Some of us would remove the Comm Shaft, put one end in a Vise, and Skewed the Poles! On Brushed, Skewed Poles gave more Torque on the bottom end, to power out of turns quicker - and also gave a little more runtime out of the ARCHAIC NiCd Batteries!!!
I remember the time when I was SURE that NiMH Batteries were going to be the end-all-be-all in the RC World. 😱 We were all that shortsided back then.
AS YOU SAID - "Stock" will NEVER be a Level, Stock playing field - until enough People Jump up and DEMAND Change!! One of the comments here, "Make it all Box Stock Cars, Like NASCAR". Sure, they'll STILL be Tweaking here and there.....
But if everyone was required to run with ZERO Upgrades, and ONE type of Motor, maybe, Racing - at least at the Club Level, MIGHT actually start having the FUN that they were promised when many of them started. Maybe?
As for all that "Everyone's a Winner" CRAP from about 1995 to 2005..... That's another LONG, hard, politically charged HOT TOPIC!! Sadly, all we can do is Wait. Wait for all those Kids and Young Adults to FINALLY grow past that....
Needless to say, I couldn't be MORE against it!!
I don't even know if you read comments from Videos this Old... But if you do, there's my $2.84. (I passed 2 cents, Paragraphs ago!!) 😜 Love your Channel Man! Keep it up.
Carmine 💥 ⛽
I read it and enjoyed every word of it I'm 42 and so i was a teen in the 90's and Rc was big I loved it and still do I put it down for a long time but now I'm back and jumping head first into the short course world so we'll see how it goes and it was nice to here from an old guy like me with the same thoughts as me hope your still in good health and ripping the track or the yard up God bless.....
I race stock and mod. For me, it is not about skill level when it comes to stock vs. mod. It is about the driving line. Where a mod can triple or quad, a stock motor most likely cannot. This means that, for the same track layout, you get to drive it in two different ways. That makes the track more interesting and forces you to think more about different driving lines, and how to get the most out of each line. There are fast drivers in both classes, and you will not be wanting for competition in either class at large enough races.
People who worry about the skill level aspect are thinking about the wrong thing. Regardless of what you run, you should expect to learn something each time. The knowledge you gain is much more valuable than winning a club race trophy.
I raced both classes, same style truck and yes, you're right. It was very fun for me to figure out the track for each class.
Thank you this was the information I was looking for I appreciate his video but I was more looking for a definition of what the classes are requirements and or limitations
This resonates with me mate, well said 😊🤘🤘🤘
I've been racing RC cars since I was 4 years old and my family are the inventors of a company called "Bolink" (Many of you may not know this company but let's just say they're one of the OG'S of RC Racing) and I've watched through my 30 years of life the sport change in a negative way and what I mean is this.. "Pay to win" Yup just like those games you play on your phone. You pay more money to have a better chance to win. This sport use to be about sportsmanship and family but had lost its way over the decades. I remember a time when it didn't matter what chassis you were running or what "New" motor you were running, it just didn't apply to us back then. We were there to have fun and help one another and honestly it wasn't really wasn't about who won the race at all that was just our mentality towards the race weekend. Spending more money to be competitive isn't the answer and this is not what the sport was created for (Just talk to some of the old timers like Associated or Losi sr and they'll tell and if you can't talk to them than watch some videos from the late 80's or early 90's) Don't fall into this game of "I have to have the latest greatest gear of this year. After I quit racing RC about 10 years ago I saw which way the sport was heading and it was even worse than 10 years ago. I went out and bought a used but in good shape TLR 8ight 2.0 1/8 Nitro Buggy ($200) with no motor, electronics, tires or nothing just bare bones chassis for ($200) found a hardly used Dynamite. 21 xpe Euro spec motor ($60) and got a pipe, Airtronics MX3 Radio some old Losi RTR servos and all the other stuff I needed and finished the build with everything and I mean EVERYTHING as I started from scratch with absolutely nothing for ($450) give or take,I finished the build. I tuned the motor at home and a month later I drove out to the biggest well known track I could find and entered the B-Main. Within a couple hours of being there I had guys asking me what I was running because my lap times were only 0.2xx off the 3 leading A-Main Driver's. They were all running TLR 3.0 8IGHT and mostly Kyosho MP9 TKI3 chassis with Novarossi and RB Motors. It was very odvious they had sub $2,000-2,500 setups. I ended up Qualifying 3rd in B-Main (Wasn't use to track yet and needed a race tune) and winning 1st overall in the B-Main class. Was invited to join the A-Main Qualifying and Qualified 5th with taking 1st place overall in the A-Main. The guys had questions after the night was through and I told them I was their to make a point with my "Ebay" special setup. They were very curious to say the least. My point is this.. Racing is 80% Driver and 20% setup. The true goal to your car is to make it as easy to drive around the track as possible and tune it until you feel directly connected to that car, like your fingers are one with it.
"MONEY DOESN'T WIN RACE'S"
Instead of spending money to be fast learn to setup a car to be fast.
I'll promise you that money doesn't solve your problems it never has and it never will. Their is nothing wrong with buying old parts and spending a few dollars to service them and refresh them.
Look at a pro drivers lap times from a year ago and then look at their times from the same track but with the "Newest chassis" from that new year.. were they faster? Nope, usually about the same maybe a 0.00x difference and that's all. Pro drivers have a job to show off new products to get you to think that you need that Buggy or motor to be fast like them but the truth is alot of those guys are down to earth and will tell you that their isn't much difference. Those guys are fast because they themselves are fast not the equipment. We need to remember why we got into the hobby.. Not to win but to have fun and that's what we need to do. And btw these company's need to chill on their prices for equipment and we all know that. Placing a $600-1,000 price tag on a kit with no Tires, wheels etc is rediculous and kills the sport. Sorry if this was misspelled and chaotic but I'm on my phone while putting a kit together that I'm gonna give away to a kid I've been seeing at the track that really loves the sport but his parents can't afford to get him in to it. Gotta old buggy laying around you've been hording and collecting dust? Then throw some stuff together and find that kid that wants to race but can't due to funds. I would do it every chance I got but I don't have the funds to do so but I'm trying like hell to revive what this sport is really about.. Fun, Family and Friends.
Love eachother and help eachother guys. Never let this sport die because it's getting close to that. We're missing the point of all of this and forgetting why we started doing this. Take care much love -Dave
Owned a Bolink legend car a long time ago.... It was old when i bought it and that was in 1998... the legend class was one of the funnest classes i ran, with Spec tires and motor. It really was a driver' class
I am a 54 year old rookie, just building my first racer (B5M).. I am glad there is a stock class to start out in. My eyesight and hand/eye coordination are not getting any better. I hope there is a stock class for awhile at least. I expect to be competitive, and expect to have a blast, win, lose or draw.
MRKing Images I'm 64 and doing what you are I'm out just to have fun what happens happens.From 1 rookie to another.
I’m 37 and have no idea what I’m doing, but I’m building two different vehicles to compete with and I’m also building 2 for my daughter. Almost ready to hit the track and practice my heart out.
@@agoodballet
I'm 54, my racing buddy (for 15 yrs now) is 44, and we still get setup and driving advice from our top guys. We manage to win a race or a main once in a while (my buddy more than myself), but we always have FUN, that's the secret. and we've both made improvements over the last couple years.
Don't worry about the "idk what I'm doing" part yet, this stuff is highly addictive and before long you'll be registered on *rctech* forums reading, talking, and "researching" anything related to: 1), your particular vehicle, and 2), setup options for track conditions (especially tire treads and compounds.
Then you'll be buying stuff you think will make you faster (it usually doesn't), or at the least buying stuff for increased durability. Now THAT imo is smart money considering you have to finish a race to win it.
There's also the "bling" buying of stuff like anodized goodies just because they're so dern pretty!
RC guys (especially racers) are worse than a woman in a shoe store! 😅
(side note)...get your wife to go now and then, it makes the race bill seem somewhat justified! 😅
In a few short years you'll have the equivalent of a bachelor's degree in all things RC.
Have fun!
This sounds like to me that there is to much of a mix of kids and adults. Since a lot of kids now a days have never been taught morals, (sportsmanship) and told no, it just sounds like there is a bunch of children throwing a tantrum and getting away with it, instead of what used to happen, and we all know what that was if your older. I used to race an RC 10 stock buggy back in the late 80's with my pop and buddy. Some places I would win and was the better driver, other places, I did not have the money to compete, but it was always about the experience and having fun. Who goes into this hobby thinking they are gonna be a rock and roll star, that is not what it is about. A few years ago I picked up a SC5M kit and put it together, what a blast! I also rebuilt a graphite tub RC 10 with all the best hopups I could get. I never got a chance to race it before my previous racing time past, but I am going to at least once. Do I think I'm gonna win? Heck no! But it will be absolutely be awesome to see that car on track, and i'm gonna have a blast doing it. I also can't wait to put the truck on track. Regardless of that, it sounds like things have gotten way to conveluted. There was always a amatuer class and a pro class back then, and it sounds like that needs to be happening. Maybe also be broke up by kids and adults. This is a hobby, have fun! Thanks for the Video.
why don't they make a legit stock class? Kit stock, no upgrades? That would be cool, like nascar
+RC Buggies No one buys a spec car to race, at least not many would. There are too many motor/esc/battery brands out there. Ruling to one brand would monopolize the market to one manufacturer, driving cost up. ROAR does a good job certifying the specs of each brand. If you race stock, stick to ROAR approved parts (the list is on ROAR website). I went with Turnigy ROAR approved shorty 4.2 batteries, Turnigy Tackstar 17.5 ROAR approved, and HobbyWing Justock ROAR approved. These brands won't break the bank, yet very reliable. Agreed that this should be fun, not beefing up your car so much that someone getting into the hobby cannot win with their low budget car.
Jimmy Nguyen Oh no no no. I'm fine with different brands of motors, I'm just saying there should be no upgrades to the kit. Raw kit and drivers choice of stock electronics
+RC Buggies then the race would really depend on the drivers skills
that's the point
+RC Buggies has a great idea. Heck, I'm low 40's but have entertained the idea of getting into local club racing. Practice is no doubt crucial to get better. And as Shortcourse mentioned or rather his buddy did, but they have A, B, and C mains to help group up the racers skill/luck. But, seeing how "Stock" isn't what it should be anymore, get rid of that terminology and just make a "Spec" class. With rcbuggies explanation of no upgrades to the kit, whether it's a RTR or true kit, no upgrades to any kit form. So you'd have a "Spec" class then everything else would be "Mod". And of course have the same category of Mains. Those people who look at themselves as "Novices", like I would, we would then fit into that "Spec" class as well.
They should just implement a new standard, no one except the aftermarket suppliers would suffer, but even then, it'll weed out the true "mod" racers, and money will still be spent. Heck, could even get the companies who make RTR competitive vehicles that much more of an enticing option for new comers into the hobby if those manufacturers churn out some higher performance rides with value in mind at the same time. For example Jason's review of the RB6 RTR. I have it based on his review as well, thanks Jason.
Curious to see how or if "Stock" and "Mod" classes morph.
I miss the stock sct classes and people, when sct really hit the scene back in 2009ish. I raced a stock class Traxxas slash, we just raced for fun, and fun only....
Thanks for the video. This was the first one I've come across and it was fantastic. I'm a 43yr old ex-racer that is thinking of getting back into it and wasn't sure where I should start. It's people like you that grow this community. Thanks for your time and work. We may share the track one day seeing I'm in Northern California myself.
I used to qualify last in the C main at my local track in spec slash. That was maybe two years ago when I was 11 years old. Now I am competing with other drivers at that same track for first in both spec slash and Stock/Stadium truck. I have always had fun with the hobby and I hope to continue to further in my years as a driver.
And the same your buddy was saying some of my best memories are not from winning but battling for 3 and 4 for almost the whole race. Each of us making one the inside or quick unexpected outside line on each other. My dad and I were at the track and me and him were battling for 3rd and 4th and on the last lap I made an inside move on him and the announcer was sitting there and screaming MATT WITH INSIDE MOVE ON JOE!! Oh I love this hobby. Lol
every time I go to hot rod hobbies to spend money I hope to see you there so I can shake your hand! I've been into rc most my life and never got into off road racing! I've been racing boats and bashing cars and crawling but I'm building a T5m and B5m for stock class slowly because I'm not rich, but I learn a lot from you and thank you for your help!
Thanks for the kind words :)
I raced locally here in Corpus Christi Texas and I completely agree with you on it's about having fun. I liked the 1/8 buggy class and had a blast with friends, new and old yet I stopped racing sold my off-road cars and got a RWD drifter and I'm hooked. The fact is I'm not trying to go race at world or anything like that, I setup a course in a parking garage and friends come out and just have fun. To me it reminds me of my first rc as a kid playing in front of re house with friends. There's no competition just friends hanging out, talking trash, and enjoying the moments. I love the hobby and will never take it seriously but I will always be right there ready to charge a battery and laugh till it's time to call it a day. Thank you for all that you do keeping the hobby going. JR.
Great content, when i was a kid racing bmx once you have one enough races u moved up to the next level, beginer- novice-expert and the track made note of the wins
When I raced 30 plus years ago stock was much better. You only had 2 motors to choose from, both fixed endbell brushed motors, either Johnson or Mabuchi. It was much more level field and price was kept way down. I think this is one of the reasons rc car racing is struggling now. Stock class is almost more expensive than modified. It's ludicrous.
i am new to the rc car hobby and i'm watching videos to see what this hobby can provide and even though i'm more of a basher and off road driver (just like my rc to do jumps and drifts on concreet or dirt ) i've found this video interesting and in my opinion (remember i'm a newbie that just like to see the car fly and drift) a hobby must be a hobby in the way that if you don't make a living out of it just take all the fun you can doing it bc like for me it cost me money and time and i just want to have as much fun as possible out of it otherwise i'll do something else and if one day i'm going to go racing i'll just go and expect to have a good laugh and be "i did what i can", i don't say winning mans nothing to me i just say it is just a bonus for me (of course if you live out of it or if you find your fun in being first and can afford it (i legit don't know if it is possible or not and i'm curious to know if profetional rc racers can live out of it or not) it is normal to aim for the 1st place and do everything you can to achieve it)
This was actually very helpful for me. A 13 year who had tried the track once and wants to race novice with a stock brushless slash 2wd. I want a b5 but I have no idea which class to build it for or even what electronics to use. Jason did a great job on helping me out with that. I plan on trying mod buggy
how did it turned out for you?
in my opinion, "Stock" is more equal opportunity, everyone has just as much of a chance to win as the next guy down the line... as with "Mod", its a matter of who has deeper pockets and the nicest setup to enable them to be better.. same in every racing sport.
Taylor - mod is far cheaper for anyone to be competitive in.
Please excuse my absent mindedness, I've recently gotten more serious about the RC club racing here in SC, so, with every vide I've watched, I've learned more and more. Killer videos, keep it up buddy.
+Taylor Harris mod actually cost less or the same, i have a trinity 6.5T in a b44.2 buggy and it will spin the tires so fast and has so much torque it breaks the rubber off of the rim every time, i also have a b4.2 stock with a 17.5 d3.5 trinity that cost MORE than the faster motor. and last i have a d3 trinity 17.5 in a sc10.2 and its not even close to the speed of other stock sc trucks. all 3 have gen2 tekin rs or rs pro (dont remember) ALL COST THE SAME (maybe the trinity d3 cost a little less)
Thanks TheNuketrooper!!
You have a good attitude regarding racing. Be nice if more people were like that. makes racing more fun when everyone is not getting mad all the time.
I was in the Air Force. I'm retired now after 24 years of service. But while active duty at Davis Mothan AFB in Tucson AZ. i bought my first RC10 and learned how to build and race. Only won a couple of races but I never went there to win. Was fun with meeting new people outside the Military. I remember this and please listen. One night I raced and came in 6th. I had the biggest smile on my face after the race. One of my racing buddies asked me why I was smiling after coming in 6th. I told him because the buggie i built by myself was just as fast...I did a good job on the build proud of myself and I'm with friends! Remember those days and still racing and still coming in 6th.... But still having fun in my 17.5/13.5 class.
I would much rather buy an $80 motor to go faster, and have the limiting factor be the driver. Versus $250 40 amp I charger, $40 power supply, $40 discharger, cut gears, titanium screw kits, ceramic bearings, and all the other odds and ends to get every little bit out of the stock car which the cost ends up being $2000 plus. Ill take the faster $80 motor any day.
Being one of those guys who has watched the evolution of radio control racing over the past 30 years, I have heard this similar discussion many times. In the past, the motor made a big difference between Stock or Mod classes and you had to have a good handle on throttle control to run in the Modified class. Personally, I have always been a bit "lead fingered" and not as good driving with all that power so I preferred the Expert stock class. We had a Novice Stock class as well and once you started to dominate the Novice class, you were moved up into Expert or Modified if you wanted to, but, you could not race Novice anymore. So, what you said about ranking drivers made sense. I have also seen guys spend a fortune on their cars in the aftermarket and not be able to compete with the 10 year old and his ratty old B3. Now we have the brushless ESC's and motors as well as radio systems with a near infinite adjust ability to get more power out of the batteries and top speed into the car. A line or even several need to be drawn in the sand so we can race and have a good time. I'm not a big fan of rules but if they help the hobby, I am all for them.
I think we need to change the classes again. I remember years ago we had novice, intermediate and expert. It was a lot of fun back in the day.
Your Absolutely Right about everything you just said. I am 45 and I probably will never get to be pro. And that's alright with me. My driving skills are at their highest.
There is a guy here who will race one stock class, to guarantee himself a trophy. He only races mod when none of the super fast guys show up. If Phend shows up for 2wd mod buggy, that guy will race stock for a better podium spot LOL. It was so bad once..this guy lapped the entire field by one lap, had lap times consistent with the top three in mod and afterwards posts on his Facebook.."Yea, managed to secure the win in stock today". Really!? He's just making himself look bad..everyone knows he just wants a trophy.
+Chester Copperpot that is the product of this have to win in order to have fun mentality.. everyone now days feels they have to win, in order to have fun.. if not.. jump ship.. to another class.. create a new class all together.. its very bad in my area..all these new classes popping up. just splits everyone from a big class..
literally.. my track.. size.. the lap times between mod, and stock.. are so close.. you could run mod with a 17.5. now.. they are wanting to split off the 4wd class.. with a 13.5 4wd class.. just doesnt make sense to me..
Not me. If I don't win I go home, analyze my mistakes or failures, learn a lesson, and go try again next week!
But I'm very well seasoned, grew up in a time when if you didn't win you didn't get a trophy or pizza party! You got told to do better next time and it was up to you how to do that.
Now, I recall every mistake, look at lap-times, etc to find a SINGLE positive thing and push forward with that. It's the "Champions" mindset that I learned from of all people a tennis pro. Win or Learn, either way we move on!
Most folks can't do this and quit. I pull up my pants and try again until I get it right :-)
@YexaC
All of us before the millennial generation.
I'm 53, been racing rc off and on 15 years. I have 3 (THREE) trophies to date.
At my local track if ALL of our crazy fast guys show up (3 or 4 usually) at one time I'm probably not going to win the A-main. But... I'm capable of finishing up front in the B, and sometimes even win the B-main. When I do, that was MY RACE...and I take it for what it is...a win. You don't get a prize for winning the B-main but that's ok because I know I did my best to win THAT race and if I bump up then great, I'll do my best there too (might even win another one some day).
@@danielgrobe
To be fair, winning _is_ fun, and it feels good to bring home a trophy or ribbon or whatever your local track hands out. But it's not the end-all be-all like some people think it is - it's just the icing on the cake, albeit a significantly thick icing.
If someone legitimately can't have fun racing overengineered toy cars without bringing home a trophy, they outright need to find a different hobby because they're obviously not enjoying this one.
I charging at a higher rate doesnt do anything for battery performance.
As of the time that this video was published, I had been about 16 years out of the hobby - My most competitive period was the early 90's, when 10th scale on-road pan car racing was at its peak (I still have the same RC10L that I used to race with). After about a year, Ijust started running Mod because it was cheaper than running stock (keep in mind that this was in the era of brushed motors)! Series directors tried to curtail the issue by handing out a spec motort at big events, but you still had guys with the special bushing break-in polishing compounds, and motor zappers to zap teh magnets. Then there were the special throwaway low-resistance brushes, not to mention the comm polishers that allowed you to keep the commutator looking breand new run after run. Quite frankly, you had to spend a fortune if you wanted to try to compete at the same level as some of these "Pro" Stock class drivers. I even competed in a ROAR Regional here in Florida where the Stock TQ fell only a half a second short of completing as many laps as the MOD TQ!!!
Perhaps with the advent of apps like LiveTime where they can keep track of a Driver's history no matter where they go, perhaps a seeding system for Major events might work... Or at least something where If they place in A Mains at Major events, they could automatically get seeded into an Open class. If Stock speeds today are anything like they were back in the 90's, I'm sure those guys would still do half decent in an Open class running Stock/Spec motors.
My dad said if your not 1st your last!😆 🤣 😂
Dude.. You are so on!!! I dont care where I finish. As long as I battle with one car on the track I am loving my day at the track!!!!
you can be 50 years old and still progress faster than a 20 year old... it is 95% mental and focus 😌
I think people are missing the point here. Run what is fun! Be competitive but don't be a dick if something goes sideways. I stopped racing because of poor drivers attitudes when they think they got taken out or even track conditions. I just mostly run practice days now with my son to keep it fun, but look out for the bashers.LOL! I personally prefer mod. I am faster with a 17.5 but have way more fun running a 9.5 in my 2wheel and a 7.5 in my 4wheel. I tried doing the stock car upgrade thing and it just ended up in a bunch of wasted money when it is just more fun with more motor. JMO. The point, have fun!
Im interested in racing 2wd mod SC and 4x4 SC but havent raced before, but my older brother (I'm 16, he's 21) races 4x4 SC and stock 17.5 buggy. He just uses a $90 charger, two different 100c $60 batteries, a $80 killshot motor, a $60 trackstar esc, and has a $70 servo and a few sets of tires in his buggy. He is one of the best drivers I know for someone who only ran the buggy 5 times so far. He isnt overly competive. He gives the other guys a run for their money (he beats the guys with $1000 cars) and he just has fun. To put it simply, my brother makes the hobby look good. I'm the same way for the most part, except instead of a 4wd sc and a 2wd 17.5 buggy, I have a 4wd sc, a mod 5.5 2wd sc, and a 2000kv 1/8 truggy
The mod and 4wd SCT guys at my local tracks are pricks. Even on open practice days the mod and 4wd SCT guys will run stock racers off the track. My B5M got broken several times by mod and 4wd drivers running me off the track and forcing me into walls and stuff. One actually got banned a year ago for putting his SCT410 through my buddy's 22 2.0 and completely destroying it as he was walking out to set it back on its wheels and telling my buddy to keep it on all 4 or stay off the track
17.5 is technically a mod. 25.5 is the equivalent of a 27t brushed.
21.5 is the stock now
I don't think we should separate from skill level. The faster guys have to work around slower guys in all motorsports. Thats racing, should be the same in RC. The fast guys have to work their way through slower traffic and still come out ahead, got to make them earn it. Elite class would be hard to get going tho. How many "elite" drivers would show up to a club race? Also, if it was a bigger race, got to give the young kid with talent a shot to make the A main, afterall, if someone breaks or has a bad run, he may win it. (not likely but it's possible) That's how racing works. Making an elite class would shut out the underdog. As for stock vs mod, it's a horse a piece, run what you like!!
I run an open class offroad. Literally no restrictions, except for it has to be an electric offroad vehicle. There's guys using old Tamiya stadium trucks racing against a $1000+ TLR 22 3.0, but it's still fun.
it would be interesting seeing someone racing a HPI 5b flux while another person is running a 1/16 traxxas e-revo oh the carnage
+William Snyder, i ran my Tamiya F103 against the 1/5th Scale FGs at our track. Once one of the guys said to me "i 'll watch for your car when lapping". Well, i lapped him 4 times in 5mins and he never pulled over to let me pass... ;) That was back in '95 running a 17t brushed motor and 2000mAh NiCd.
Excellent video. One of the best I have heard to date. I think you are absolutely correct. Everyone places to much emphasis on what the pro's are running. Get your setup and do your thing. Learning is all the fun. I also think that stock is promoting modifications more than it is promoting tuning and ability. There is no substitute for proper tuning. Well said sir, well said.
You were on the right track when referring to motocross. When i started racing moto I started in the D class and once i won 5 races got bumped to C class. a few years later won 5 more in the C class got bumped to B class and that is ware I stayed, I hit my plateau. other guys i raced with have since moved to A or others have stayed in C. To get the system started you can let people chose which class they want to be in because like you said, everyone wants to win and you will just shoot your self in the foot if you pick a class that's beyond your skill level. You can only move up a class not back. This could be done at a local club level with a simple computer system or even in a notebook, or like AMA motocross on a national level when you race at a sanctioned track you have to have a AMA card that they scan and it keeps track of that riders record. Create a national club, charge a membership fee, get tracks to become sanctioned... simple right lol.
i started racing 5-6 years ago, and was told to go 17.5, i did. i liked it cause it was easy to drive (i did both on and offroad stock), most about it was setup your car right, the right gearing and timing for your car....and have fun. well fast forward to about 1 year ago, and you need to drop 2-300 dollars more into your car ....not to mention rampant cheating in stock classes, 13.5 stators stuffed into 17.5 cases, mod rotors in stock, over volting batteries, super charging/discharging batteries...screw it so i went mod. .....on the other hand it is great for the industry and hobbyshops, stock racers buy tons of stuff to be at the peak of whats possible...battery factories must love it, cause i see racers with new batteries every week or two, cause high amp charging and discharging does wear the batteries fast.
At my home track we don't even have a stock class. It's all mod. Run what you want. We have guys that do reaaaaaally well and win with a 17.5 and 13.5 motors. It's all about the driver. I'm pretty new to this, but I have seen enough to know that.
I think it's fine the way it is they should just have it a little bit more segregated in terms of separating the very fast start drivers into pro stock or something else or just force them out of stock into mod.
Yep, Sportsman Stock = NO SPONSORS, PRO Stock = Sponosored, Modified = OPEN TO ANYONE
This video is timeless. Thanks Jason.
IMO, it also depends what is going on at your local track. Mod drivers are thin on the ground at my club, so stock is very popular. Totally agree that the focus should always be on fun, and also in welcoming new people into the hobby.
if i race and lose by 3 inc its a good race i got bord raceing playing darts so on winning by a land slide theres no fun closer the better
Just getting Back into racing. Last race was in arizona in 1987 or 88. WTF just happened to this sport? 😳😳😳
Shout out to Horizon Hobby for being the absolute best hobby shop in the world. Their customer support is top notch. They listen and understand the issues you may have and they take care of their customers. Just good down to earth people absolutely love those guys!!
This is Detroit rc Wurks by the way on my sons youtube.
I agree that stock class is out of hand. Getting rid of it though, or allowing something like ESC boost is not the answer. Stock needs to be a "slow" class; one where you have to drive smoothly and plan ahead; where you're punished for taking turns incorrectly and rewarded for driving flawlessly. Beginner class or not, if you are relying on the power of your car to make up for your lackluster driving, you should be in mod.
We could add more rules and regulations to try and slow these cars down, but tracks won't enforce them anyway and that's what's *really* hurting the "average joe" racer. I'd rather see local clubs start teching stock cars, in particular, checking battery temperature, because that's what you charge at 70 amps for.
+Zach Miller how does teching cars fix the fact that guys can but $200 motors and expensive batteries that still provide a clear advantage?
Maybe its time to ditch stock and go to SPEC Racing and Mod Racing.
How about this? local racer who runs dirt and can come out and race 2 or 3 times a year and keep up with the local pros easily but then move to another state and starts racing on astro turf and now it's 3 laps off the pace? Talk about humbling.
why don't they set budget based categories so the guys with a £2-300 car don't end up racing the guys that have £2-3k car's
I always looked at stock class like NASCAR or Formula 1 racing. In theory cars are all equal only the drivers make the difference but in reality like Jason pointed out we are all competitive and guys will go to extremes to get an edge. This makes stock way more expensive in the end than mod with all the hop up parts and such so as newer or developing driver your better off running mod until you can make A-mains then transition to stock.
I would also suggest that you could reign in stock classes by running them as a claim race. For those that are unaware that means that at the end of a race any other driver running in that class can claim your car for certain dollar amount. So if you ran against Ryan Cavelarie in a stock buggy you could claim his car (minus body, transponder & RX) for $500 or what ever is pre determined.
I agree with Jason on the new scoring systems as well. Just like technology has pushed the sport from brushed to brushless ect. This technology will eventually rank all drivers based on driver metrics and will allow driver to truely be seeded by skill level much like a golf handicap does. This will of course not stop guys from sandbagging or messing with the system but it will be much harder for them to do and will be easier to find out who those guys are.....just my opinion.
Good luck to all.
Years ago stock was a 27turn brushed motor.
Why can't they keep the stock stock!
Put life back into stock not over the top rich kids buying the most expensive gear and having no idea why?
Stock clas should be stock inc batteries motors and CARS!
Modified is where it should be about speed and deep pockets.
I have put more Money into my Stock Car than my Mod. No Joke though, I feel bad for the kid with the B5r (had no idea he should have got the B5m) with it out of the box trying to keep up. I was that kid many, many years ago and you could argue that "you need to go through that "losing all the time feeling" to appreciate the hobby" I say it's a sh**ty feeling, and kids shouldn't have to go through it to love this hobby. Somewhere, somehow there needs to be a limit or age group for the guys that are No Joke Millionaires and DUMP money into cars. it sucks for ME!, and I put a Good amount of money, and have many, many years of experience into my B5m :)
damn, wish I had millionaire customers!
I race at OCRC as well and have been trying to figure out when to make the move to Mod. I raced for over ten years from 1983 to 1995 and was a top oval racer during that time. Last year I decided to try racing again and went with Off-road since OCRC was the closest track for me. It was a learning curve for me with how to set the car up and how to scrub and whip (I still need to work at being comfortable whipping). I'm surprised that being almost 50 years old, racing only oval when I was younger, and taking 20 years off that I worked my way up to being a competitive driver as quickly as I have.
My thinking on moving from 17.5 to Mod would be in relation to my driving consistency and being comfortable driving the car, for me I feel my skill hasn't become automatic just yet where I don't have to think about what I'm doing. I would also like my lap times to be within a certain range and not vary too greatly and part of that is not making big mistakes. I've been told I'm ready for Mod, but I don't feel I'm ready to make that jump just yet. I know Mod would make some of the harder jumps a little easier, but I kind of enjoy the challenge of making sure I land right and carry my speed through the turns to properly make a jump. Those skills will go a long way to making me a better racer when I do move to Mod.
Even when I was sponsored driver, I didn't expect to win every race, but I expected to always do my best and I worked hard at making sure my car was always in perfect race condition. In oval racing I wasn't always the fastest car, but I was the most consistent and I won a lot of races just by driving smart and not making mistakes. I always moved up to higher divisions when possible just to improve my driving. Towards the end of my sponsored career I felt I wasn't going to improve any further and announced retirement.
My attitude is to drive the car to the best of my ability and to always improve my technique, car setup, and consistency. The biggest one is to have fun, I may or may not be a front runner, but I enjoy driving the car and hanging out with others that enjoy it too.
I agree with you about competitive racing. I can't comment on rc but my most enjoyable motorcycle race I finished 13th out of 21 riders. It wasn't my best finish but it was the race that taught me good race craft. We have people with no skill that spend 30k on a bike and expect to go quick. 9 times out of 10 the bikes on the market for sale within the year. People don't seem to want to spend the years progressing nower days.
Just got into 2wd buggy racing. All of my buddies and I run 17.5 buggy. We run 17.5 buggy because of the closeness of the racing. My buddies are all better drivers than me, but 17.5 evens the playing field a bit and allows us all to have fun together. Personally, I like the 17.5 class, its a ton of fun and that is what I do RC for in the first place, not to win a trophy that I personally know has no bearing on my overall life, like it does for a pro driver.
Hey Jason, great points man, I’m subscribed and u always on point. The 17.5 class is fun and it will humble even the best drivers, I race that class, mod, 13.5 4x4 buggy, stadium and 1/8 buggy. Many times I just run the 17.5 class because it’s where the most people are and it really helps me. You have great points on all levels.
Hey Jason whats up? I got to hold your tires and wheels the other night from mack winters and f5 chassis. Thought it was pretty cool lol. They seem like great quality! Nice job!!. Im actually here to ask how you feel about hobbywing equipment over top brands like reedy, tekin, maclan etc....? Alot of people in the dirt oval scene are running all hobbywing or hobbywing esc and a Oklahoma local team power products motor. I was just curious on your thoughts because you are big in the hobby and know alot of top drivers in the world
so can i actually use boost and turbo in a stock motor?
You over thought some of this ,but you had some great points to ponder.
I race at R/C Madness, and RCHR here in CT, Our 17.5 guys are running better times and laps with their 17.5 buggies. I think the problem is that a lot of mod guys get bent if they get beat by someone who is running a 17.5 motor in mod class. Sure a mod motor can jump further then a 17.5 , but if the mod guy can't make the triple whats the point on trying. If you are running mod and come up on a 17.5 car then you should be able to pass them clean. To many mod guys here will go through the 17.5 guy then try to race them clean, and they have said so at the track that they will put you in the wall. I sometimes race my 17.5 in both class. as long as you have fun who cares what you run. To many guys thing their a sponsored guy and there's a contingency check for winning the main. Its club racing. relax and have fun.
I know this is an older video but because of what the real root of the problem is i'm pretty confident the situation hasn't been resolved, Jason you kind of said the solution when you talked about taking cars right out of the box and racing them. at the risk of showing my age, back in the late 80's when i was racing a kyosho sponsored car the stock class was just that stock, you were allowed to replace the bushings with bearings, replace the manual speed control with an esc, change the steering servo and change wheels and tires to match the track condition and that was about it. the cars back then were entry level cars out of the box now days there are stock cars that cost $500+ right out of the box and have as many or more works parts on them then we did after we completely modified our cars so in a way now days you have the manufacturers actually running the sport with the cost of their cars. back in the day you could get a car into the stock class for around $200 including radio, for that kind of money rc racing could be just for fun but when someone has to spend $700-800 or more just to compete it's probably less for fun and more for a need to win to justify the expense...something to think about!!!
Well said about having fun, unfortunately it has become so competitive and people take it so serious that it isn’t fun anymore
Here in Arizona stock at some track's is just as competitive sometimes even more, love the videos bro keep it up!
Cool Video!
Holy $hit dude I have been subscribed to you for a while now. I just watched a bunch of your older racing tips and car review videos. Your videos are really good. I'm not just being nice. I thoroughly enjoy watching your videos. I have not enjoyed RC videos that much since ultimate RC. Thanks man!
The only reason I don't like stock is because it takes too long to catchup... But I do think it's fair that if you put more $$ in your car it helps you win...
I just got back into the hobby with my son after over 20years out of it. Back then the stock motors were non adjustable, unopened, and CHEAP! As I recall ROAR had the msrp capped at $27. Now you have the exact opposite so it’s like the Wild West. Yes back in the day there were a few cheats, but at the big races in stock you got hand out motors so it was fairly even. I have seen some cars at the track that are hard to tell from mod they are so fast. What happened to Limitations on the MSRP for all motors (modifieds were capped at $80). It makes it tough to get in the hobby as a new racer when once you get the car set up and driving down you then need expensive motors and walk a fine line on high amp charging/ discharging.
excellent point about getting back to the point--having fun. I've just gotten into this, and I guess I'm lucky that I don't expect to win--hell, I'm still looking for my first A-main (which is gonna be awesome!). My club runs an open (run what you brung) novice class which is a lot of fun to watch...but a bit of a bash fest. I find I do better racing, losing to , and learning from the faster guys in pro-2.
Where is the clapping hands emoji when I need it! Great video and you nailed it on the head. Coming from a guy that has had that stupid mentality in the past and I had to take a year off because I stopped having fun. Now I'm having fun again and this is exactly why. I'm going with the right mentality.
I'm 46 and I fly rc aircraft. I am just getting ready to get in to rc cars and I will do it for fun, but I agree with you people are forgetting why they do it
I miss the old days where classes were split up by your skill like running beginner sportsman and expert. I loved the days where if you wanted to race stock only thing people changed were electronic and that was it. At my old track they made it so if you wanted to move up in skill level you had to win so many races in that class before you could move up. Novices was 27 turn only but any car you had then you could jump into what ever class your car was. I started out with a rc10b3 when I was in middle school in 2000 and only a few years after that the track died. I do have a 2 tracks near me now but one shop is full of disrespectful people and the only class that is good to run in is 1/8 buggy and the other track is a small indoor track and we really only run 1/12 and latrax rally cars in a "spec" class. Nice thing about the rally class is the car flips so much changing anything on the car doesn't really make it any faster so it's an all drivers class which is so much fun. If I ever get back into off-road I'm sticking with 17.5 but just staying with a stock car. I can't stand spending a ton of money on a car to just go a tiny bit faster.
I think the answer to stock vs mod is a spec tire for stock. Level the playing field with the tires. All the go fast goodies will not help if the tires are not up to par. Use a spec tire that works well but not great for your track.
Hello sir and Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family. This subject matter is a small part of a much larger problem that infects our society as a whole. Parents griping at coaches about playtime. My little (who's hisface) should get a trophy too. So many of just about every conceivable program involving children now teach them to expect something for nothing. From what you are saying, it has found its way into what once was a full time fun thing to do. Fun food and fellowship is now gimme mine, no I don't have to share and who cares. I'm soon to be 64 come Feb. I have watched the societal downfall in slow motion as child rearing became the new sport for life. Now what we have is what you so eloquently stated in people showing up expecting to win just because they in fact just showed up. Skills have nothing to do with it. Taught expectation has everything to do with it. Your opinion is actually a well stated diagnosis of a much larger problem. God Bless you, please continue to share your opinions as I would have to support them being that they are as honest as anyone with eyes and ears would know the truth of what you say.
Big Poppa Phill.
Excellent you answered a bunch of things i wanted to know cheers mate
Man u said this perfect!!! I could not said it better myself. I agree with u 100 perecent!! What is blinky. I ran stock with a jrx2 back in the 90s with a 7 cell nicad lol i ran a 27t in it lol the thing with people in my track is sure there is 17.5 and 10.5 but there is open class too. The novice it a demo derby. The thing is these people want to over power there shit and cant drive. I can run a slower motor and as lo.g as ur consistent u will beat them. Dont wreck and stay consistent is key
Thumbs up if you calculated how many years you have left before hitting 45...
Perry Codes I just turned 45, still lol when a women says "Wood", finish strangers sentences with "that's what she said" so I guess age is purely in your mindset :p
Great Video. I have to agree with you on sorting guys out by skill level. I race Stock Buggy and at my track it is very popular. I also believe that RC is just a hobby and that we should just have fun doing it.
I raced stock for 3 years. It took me two to podium. The DAY I podium'd I started getting called a Sandbagger. The following weekend I finished 6th. All this time I adored the competition of chasing down someone and only making up time by cornering closer than him. That is true stock racing. STOCK CARS.
Stock racing is wonderful. I love it. However, I loathe what it has become. A rich class who will stop at nothing to win a piece of plastic. It is a cheater class in an ocean of "gray zone" and has needed to be snuffed out years ago. It's been left for whatever reason by tracks and overseeing bodies (My opinion due to the money it brings in) and now it is a mangled corpse of a class.
Rookie stock, Sportsman stock, Expert stock? Give me a break. All that did was have people jump down into sportsman to assure their podium finish. You just tripled the amount of problems.
I'm pessimistic because the class I loved is gone. It's an offense I haven't forgotten with my puffed reedy batteries, 3 year old Mach 2 reedy, and stock B5m car. RIP STOCK
You just took the wind out of my sail, Just Kidding, me being in my 50’s and just starting into this sport I can put a lot of money towards a car but as you said a person, like myself who currently does not have the needed skills, will probably be fixing a high end car more then racing one. Don’t get me wrong, next month I know I’ll be staying up with and racing the best of the best😂🤣😂. All joking aside just like full size cars this debate is old and ongoing. When it comes down to it, skill is earned and not just in driving but in vehicle set up Etc. My take on it is this sport is about having fun. I hope to become competitive at some point but if not I’ll enjoy those around me and be the best I can be. Thanks for your in-site!
great video man keep up the good work i used to race with mayfield at srs and i always run 13.5 which was the stock class back when i raced and i loved it
HAND OUT MOTORS ! like back in the day ... i had one of the FIRST ASSOCIATED RC10 but there will always be some one than can cheat !
I could make a hand out 27x1 look like a 17 turn (brushed) and still could. It all came down to the hardest Trinity springs on the positive and a medium spring on the negative, a good bearing reamer, and Mobile 1. Oh, and the trick brush cut :-) my dad invented that eventually Mike Reedy copied and sold 1,000,000 pairs of! LOL! I was on AE/REEDY at the time so could care less!
My dad and I also designed and manufactured a magnet zapper that would put the gauss back on the magnets; every race. We sold it for around $300 and it was hand built in AMERICA. Trinity wanted to copy and sell it but didn't want to pay my dad $10,000 K for the design so it was never mass produced.
I'm PROUD to say I never had to cheat to win a stock race. My dad and I helped change the rules to include rebuild able stock motors so you could cut the comm. He also proved the NORRCA "Stock Cop" that checked resistance was a sham.
My dad, who can wind brushed motors, would use 23 x 8 with some super small wires and it would measure the same internal ohms and beat "Stock Cop". He also could pop the then fixed endbells and had a trick press that could push the tabs back without damage. He did this at a NORRCA Race, passed, won his race, then grabbed the mic and announced he was disqualified because he had a modified motor. JR Turned white. I laughed and my dad was banned from NORRCA forever. He popped the endbell and unwound the motor in front of 500 racers that day!
Yes, he cheated but only to prove a point to JR Stitman that STOCK COP SUCKED; and that led to the rules being changed to include the rebuild able stock motors of the day.
I just laughed and raced modified. Cheating isn't a factor in OPEN CLASS because you can run anything. So the ONLY way to go faster is to actually get better as a driver, mechanic, etc...not just a $150 motor!
But, stock class will continue to grow and folks will do what Jason said and throw $2500 at a kit. I'll buy a RTR, tune the chassis, run an over the counter motor, blinky mode speedo, and still win (I'm doing that now and the locals are PISSED!) Why? Because I race modified...stock is slow motion modified to my brain.
GB
That was the best common sense video that I have seen for RC racing
I agree with most of what you talked about. do you think it's about time for a follow up on this topic?
I agree with you. I go just to race not to win. I look for fun.
Bought a B6D a few days ago and I'm racing stock, I want to learn how to race well and stay on the track. Then ill move into mod
Stock has always been a huge class even back in the brushed day's, stock has always been more expensive
I'm sorry but age has nothing to do with it! It does not not matter how old you are, it's just down to how committed you are and how much you put in to how much you will get back from it. Don't ever give up.
In the 80's I ran both stock and modified with stock motor. Local racing non professional and won a lot of races. Never had the fastest car but concentrated on driving smooth. What made me quit was I saw even back then the cost going up like crazy. I have raced dirt kart oval and Mini sprints. Racers are their own worst enemy that always want to go faster then the next guy and drive the costs up like crazy. Racers just don't have the restraint to keep it simple and keep costs down. And manufactures are their trying to outdo each other as well. It's impossible to keep the costs down.
One reason I don't do allot of club races is because its not fun sometimes. You hit someone on accident and they get all mad, like bro, I didn't try to hit you, I'm sorry...I love track practice time, people aren't as serious
mod is far more expensive nowadays. mod is always applied to drift cars and buggies because it can provide larger amperes for slipping. Your RC rear wheels most likely slip (drift) at cornering, and the faster (higher rpm) it can, the higher oversteering angle it does. That is it at all.
Well said, man. Couldn't agree more.
Golf has A,B,C,D grades depending on your handicap. Surely a scoring/live time system do something similar
Stock IS for beginners and experienced drivers who can't compete in mod and/or can't accept getting beat.
Thanks for letting the rest of us know you don't get it.
Can a 13.5 be a stock?
Regarding splitting classes, "it shouldn't be done because it causes everyone to expect to win" is a bad argument because it makes an unfalsifiable claim - that EVERYONE expects to win. An unfalsifiable claim is one that cannot be proved or disproved, either due to a lack of evidence either way or due to its inherently subjective nature.
That being said, I do agree that things can sometimes go overboard. We don't need multiple mod classes, we don't need a separate class for each chassis layout in a particular vehicle class, etc. But splitting Stock _specifically_ based on skill level needs to be done _because_ some people go crazy with trying to squeeze every last bit of speed out of their stock-class cars. Mod is unsuitable for beginners for the same reason 1/10th scale nitro truck flopped as a feeder class for the big 1/8th scale cars - too much power for someone who's still learning throttle control. Not everyone can be a winner, but new drivers should not be forced to go up against people running $2000+ cars with ceramic bearings and carbon fiber suspension components, nor should they be forced to drive something outside of their capabilities in order to not have to go up against those people.
I think they should do it like motox. A B C. Its simple. I just started the rc thing last year so my son and I could enjoy it in the winter and some summer. Im in Mn. but we really enjoy motox. I was tryn to figure out what motor to start out with. everyone told me either mod or stock. I ended up with both. It would have been nice just to have it simpler since Now I have 4 instead of 2 trks and buggies. My son is 10 and Im 45.we just like to hit the pratices and have fun racing during pratice. I love the b5m
Great vid. I just started watching your vids and I am enjoying them very much. I agree with you on the level class. I used to race a little years ago and I want to get back into it now. My problem is that Im not that good and I feel bad when I get in the way of the good drivers. I would love to have a class for people with the same level as myself. I think it would be much more fun knowing if I make a mistake its not going to effect the guy or girl that is winning the race or has a chance of winning the race. Keep up the good work. Take care.
So what I’m getting out of this is stock is building a kit, throwing electronics in it and racing. While mod is building a kit, putting electronics in it and changing out heavy parts for lighter parts and making your car be as light as possible to make it go as fast as possible. Is that accurate?
Just found your channel and it's great ! Love the way you explain stuff and very informative you make it make sense keep up good work subbed for life
Cheers
I would recommend taking a page out of the book from Tennis. They have individual rankings and a system that allows for elite players to stay on the tour and for up and comers to get their shot. Also fans and racers could know who is top 10 in the world at any given time.
Perfectly said.
I pulled my transponder and club raced the other day just for fun. Don’t know if I won or lost. One thing I know, I had a great time!!! 🤷🏻♂️