17:25 Counterargument: Radagon also uses no sorceries in his bossfight, despite it being well known he had studied them in the past. If Radagon were to abandon sorceries, then he would abandon fire incantations a thousand times over especially considering that he hates his (presumed) heritage
Under rated comment, you are correct. In fact, it only seems natural to me that the power of fire is prohibited to Radagon. I believe Radagon is tokenism set up by the greater will after conquering the giant war, in order to assimilate and better control the lesser giants, the descendants of giants and others under erdtree's order. Same apply to Marika, a tokenism to the descendants of eternal city, Numen and Nox, that's where Sellia comes from btw, even under the influence of the erdtree, just a sidenote, I believe Marika was the gloam eyed queen herself, she get betrayed and defeated by her own shadow Gurranq and too get assimilated into the being as she is now, a vessel of the God's will. Back to the topic, same apply to Ranni, as the first heir of Carian Royal, being appointed by two fingers as empyrean so that the erdtree could better assimilate and control the Carian loyal and the Raya Lucaria. Everything connected isn't it? I formed entire plot and story/theory to these and it seems true to me, but it will end being an essay cuz basically everything connected with each other, so I will stop at here.
That being said, we must acknowledge that he is the figurehead of the fundamentalist school of incantation, often perfectly marrying/requiring faith and intelligence (sometimes requiring intelligence alone) to be properly wielded. Not only that, but the criss cross pattern of the seal upon the Erdtree is the very same as the seals protecting Raya Lucaria, only golden. It seems to me that Radagon didn't completely abandon sorceries so much as he weaved them into the things Marika taught him, giving way to his own ideal of what magic should be.
@@ultrabear1583 Dear Mr Bear , thanks for these words as long as they might be that is what im looking for ! As it happens like many others im banging my brains to figufe stuff out so would you be open to conduct a 4,5 min chat with me some time , I have a couple of questions that I think you might have better answers to !
@@geraltapprentice6394 yea sure mate, feel free to ask any questions about elden ring, I'm happy to share what I observed, noticed and knowledges I had over the periods of lore hunting.
The big thing about radagon and the fire giants for me is that aside from the braid alot of descriptions that mention fire giants can parallel radagon in so many ways just of the top of my head. There's the sword of night and flame which was made by the early astrologers and fire giants BUT can also be seen as a parallel of radagon and rennalas marriage and union. The trolls hammer said that trolls were descended from giants and that they considered smithing divine radagon is a divine who uses a hammer and from the golden order greatsword description we know smiths Then there's the sword of milos a sword made of the bones of an undersized giant who was hated by his own kind. And what's radagons a potential undersized giant who hates his own kind's eventual fate? Being made into a sword!
Has anyone thought about the idea that maybe the spear in Marika's side when she's crucified is Radagon? When she drops from the arc, the spear dissapears and radagon takes over, as if the spear was absorbed. He never uses the thorn in his boss fight either, which is odd. It is also the color of copper, or "red-gold". Perhaps it's also a shard of Amber Starlight so that Marika can be puppeted by the Greater Will after she begins to question the Order. Just a thought.
Consider that causality is a big part of the Golden order religion. Radagon already is part of Marika in the future, but not in the past. Causality means it's already happened, we just haven't gotten there on the timeline yet
My thoughts exactly, this also plays very nicely with certain traditional Japanese approaches to storytelling, such as film making, which are more concerned with moods and themes than strict adherence to linear structure.
This video stands a foot above every other lore video that just repeats item descriptions and doesn't try to connect the dots. Please keep making these.
At some point the souls lore community got really “clinical” and “scientific,” which may be bc dark souls III is a pile of half finished ideas and loose ends (Sekiro lore community was much smaller so I’m skipping that.) The best DaS3 lore videos ironically relied on DaS1 far more than the newer game, bc that’s where the cohesive lore was. Ring is far more cohesive than DaS3, but it’s also harder to interpret than DaS1. Weird spot.
@@sams7068 This is why I asked him specifically about the connection between the very sparse descriptions of a father of darkness and the quest line that Ranni is put upon and put you upon. The fact that her dialog references the dark references references mystery and being alone and fear makes me think that the father of darkness might be an outer god that is guiding Ranni. I ask him that because I don't like any other The lower hunter will dive so deep and attempt to make connections where it's all but compresensable
I try to simplify it with a twist on your homunculus take: Marika is the Elden Ring and can extract runes from it as she did with Destined Death. Marika extracted the rune of order from the Elden Ring which became Radagon - his symbol of the lattice that supports the Elden Ring from behind.
On the issue of Radagon and Marika becoming one, I think its worth noting that Radagon is tied to the chemical Copper in that his symbol is clearly inspired by copper’s alchemical symbol. Marika meanwhile is associated with the chemical Mercury. In real world chemistry, pouring a liquid mercury onto solid copper forms a hard alloy of mercury co-crystalized with cooper. Also, in soil, copper pellets will attract mercury due to their small magnetic charge.
To add to this, it seems the 4 chemicals typical of alchemical amalgams (Mercury, Silver, Tin, Copper) are associated with the 4 main parents of Elden Ring, Marika (Hg), Rennala (Ag), Godfrey (Sn) and Radagon (Cu).
Where does all these comparisons between ER characters and chemicals even come from. I can't even remember copper being mentioned in game, and all of Radagons tools are gold, not copper.
The D twins' lore could support the theory that Marika and Radagon were always one being. From D's armor : "The two known as D are inseparable twins. They are of two bodies and two minds, but one single soul. Not once do they stand together; not one word do they speak to one another." From the Inseparable Sword : "The inseparable twins found solace in the Golden Order, the only institution not to revile them as accursed beings." It would make sense that the Golden Order would accept them if Marika herself was the same type of being, two bodies, two minds and one soul.
Not to mention that one of the fundamental principles of the Golden Order, as espoused by Radagon, is the law of Regression, that disparate parts naturally seek to merge.
But the D twins clearly are two distinct bodies, since we cleary see the first D being killed by Death Blight, there is no way this body is the same as the second D we find near the Deeprooth Depths, cleary even though they would share a soul, they do not share a body. Whereas with Marika and Radagon there is a serious question if they ever were two separate bodies or not, we cleary see Marika transforming into Radagon in-game and in-trailer, but there might be a possibility that in the past Radagon and Marika were two distinct people, with two bodies. Pure speculation: An interesting hypothesis i've seen before is that Marika might be similar to Asimi, the silver tear that can invade bodies (this is cut content). Maybe the Nox's ultimate weapon against the Greater Will was the succesful creation of an artificial being like Marika. Maybe Marika invaded Radagon's body at one point, thus becoming a single entity later. We cleary see that Marika rebels against the Greater Will, which pushes her to shatter the Elden Ring, she is cleary the half of the Rebis that wants to remake the Order somehow, Radagon is the half that wants to preserve it now.
Idea inspired by @Smouhghtown's most recent video: Radagon is the only Fire Monk who was able to resist the Flame of Ruin and the Fell God's influence, and was chosen to be Marika's alter because of this. You point out in this video that the only real problem with the Radagon = Fire Monk theory is him not ever utilizing fire abilities. I noticed in Smoughtown's video on the Fire Monks that there is a significant difference between "post-shattering"/modern Fire Monks and their initial form: wherein they were the initial guardians and defenders of the Flame of Ruin, but /not/ venerators of it. Their utilization of "o fire" incantations and depictions of the Fell God on their armor is due to some kind of innate transfixing effect the Flame has: one who watches upon it, even to defend it from being worshipped, will eventually and ironically begin worshiping it themselves (See o, Fire incantations and Fire Monk Ashes). I posit that this is due to the Fell God's influence and Radagon seems to have some sort of innate ability to avoid/negate(?) the influence of Outer Gods. He is still subservient to the golden order though, and willingly accepts the guidance of the Greater Will as he is, as you point out, probably /the/ original Golden Order Fundamentalist. Keyword though being: fundamentalist. That seems to implicate a resistance to the increasingly frequent incorporation of heresy into the Golden Order's beliefs, which would correlate to the resistance to Outer God influences I feel. Finally, I would like to posit that the Fire Monks were originally much more like the Golden Order Fundamentalists. Not necessarily in name, but in belief and ability. Think about it. Who in the world is a fundamentalist, or even uses their spells? I believe Radagon, Godwyn (pre soul death), and maybe Goldmask to be the only possible ones we find in game, and Goldmask is tarnished so there doesn't really seem to be any non-god fundamentalists left in the world when tarnished are let in to the lands between. (Corhyn seems to reluctantly accept the use of heresies) As the Fire Monks would likely utilize some form of incantation before falling to the Fire and using the Fire Giant-adjacent Fire Monk spells, what would they have used? Likely one of the lines of incantations that do bear lineage from the Golden Order, as they were made to be defenders of the Flame by Marika and the Golden Order. Out of those options we have the "Golden Order" and "Erdtree" incantation lines, and the Erdtree line seem to be more diverse in effect and much more utilized by the living members of the order like the Crucible Knights, Leyndell Knights and even Maliketh, while the Golden Order ones seem to be strictly utilized by devout members who adhere strictly to the Order (really, only Radagon at this point as many of the attacks are literally just his boss attacks for player use [subthought in a subthought whoaaaaa I also just noticed that Order's Blade, which enchants your weapon with Holy damage and I thought broke that pattern, depicts the Golden Order greatsword, which is actually Radagon's sword]) and it's /fundamentals/ of Golden, holy Magic that induces Order. I think these incantations were used by the wider population of Fire Monks when they were less Fire Monks and more Fire Guardians as they were initially intended.
"The Erdtree might have been a giant mushroom because it feeds on dead things." Or it could have been a giant tree, because trees *also* feed on dead things. Fungi aren't the only things that can decompose organic material, and trees can be nurtured with the dead just fine. In fact, an increasingly popular burial method intentionally uses the body to nurture a tree.
I'd like to take this time to remind everyone that tree roots (and most plant roots) grow with symbiotic fungi known as Mycorrhizae. This fungus acts as a way to produce valuable nitrogen compounds and even acts as a bridge of communication between two plants. Proper mycorrhizal growth leads to stronger plants with better immune systems. IT also means that plants use a fungus-based internet.
I think you're onto something with the homunculus angle and being related to the nox practices, because seluvis specifically needs you to find amber starlight shards (which are gold) rather than normal ones (which are silver) in order to turn an empyrean into a puppet. It seems that silver simply isn't as powerful as gold, and that's why Marika succeeded where the nox did not
When I first paused and read "who is bald guy?" I was hoping it was something to do with Patches. Getting to the end of the video though, that does become a great question. Miquella tended to and tried to grow his own Erdtree. We know the Erdtree did not always exist or have the power it has in the time of the game. Perhaps bald guy is who tended to the original Erdtree, which eventually gave Miquella the inspiration or starting knowledge to attempt it himself? Though why someone of that importance would be completely without mention in the game is curious. Mayhaps, similar to the crucible knights, their origins and history contradicted the message of the current day Golden Order, and were therefore expunged from the annals of history? Great video!
As someone who’s been arguing the Radagon=Mimic theory for months. A few things I’d like to bring up to sorta add, his egg given to rennala uses larval tears of silver tears to change our form, and if you hold celestial dew is the base of silver tears that connects them more. And his unborn rune could be argued to describe Albernarics due to the handicaps. And you also have the idea that once Radagon and Rennalas child is the one to bring back the moon of the eternal cities. So perhaps Marika needed the Full Moon Queen, and her Golden Sun Hound to finally consumate in order to bring about a eclipse aka Ranni and she bring the age of stars aka the Eternal cities true goal. You could also argue Marika would have known the elden beast would have used her for sacred relic sword due to the ancient treasure of the eternal city the Fingerslaying blade.
Could Radagon have been separated from Marika during the war against the fire giants? The fire is hot enough to burn the erdtree. Why couldn’t it separate the two of them just like in alchemy?
I think an aspect glossed over with the M/R thing is why Marika took Godfrey as an Elden Lord while Radagon ran around doing stuff and then banished Godfrey and called Radagon to her to become Elden Lord. This means that effectively Marika was both the Empyrean (housing god/Elden Ring) and the Elden Lord. If we look at Placidusax the dragon also seems to have a male/female thing going on with one head being larger than the other. So again, there's that God/Elden Lord being one in the same thing. Also says something that both Marika and Radagon come across as made of stone or petrified - Placidusax being an Ancient dragon is also stonelike. Wonder if that particular form is a necessity in order to house the Elden Ring as an Empyrean in mythology is the place in which God dwells, which ties into the Firmament. idk people rarely bring up exactly what an Empyrean is past the game lore - it's a place that is said to inhabit the fifth element and fire - including the place in which "God dwells" it is the upper most area of heaven having Aether (the air gods breathe). Aether, beyond its alchemy mythos, is a greek deity (personification of the air gods breathe) who was the child of Erebus (darkness) and Nyx (night). If you look at the Elden Ring or Elden Beast you'll notice the ring itself is suspended in "darkness" or a black substance. Anyway. lol
Theyre the missing heads of placidusax, the old lord talisman only has 4 heads. Being timeless and going by his ring id posit that the primordial ring is the ring of 'the one great' and rather than leaving placidusax it seperated into greater will(order) and frenzied flame (chaos). Once the elden beast arrives it decapitates the two heads and they somehow become marika (chaos) and radagon(order). Pretty wild speculation but it never sat right that Radagons name rearranges to a dRagon 😅
Personally I believe the bald monk statue represents the man responsible for ensuring the growth of the tree. Just like Miquellas blood was required to ensure the growth of the hailigetree and it stopped once Mogh removed him from it, it is possible this monk was sacrificed or willingly gave himself as food. The reason why there are blooms at the feet of the statues of both Marika and radagon at least in my head cannon, is because the tree gave life to both of them at opposite ends of the greater will Desire ; regression and causality this would explain how they can be different entities while remaining the same being. It is posible since Queen Marika wanted the existence of only one God that she convinced her other half to merge to achieve that goal however broke the Elden ring in the process.
As soon as I heard theory #2 it made me think of this dialogue: "I declare mine intent, to search the depths of the Golden Order. Through understanding of the proper way, our faith, our grace, is increased. Those blissful early days of blind belief are long past." Maybe Marika separated the part of her that was faithful to the golden order so she could better understand it somehow, and then recombine after some point so she could be more perfect, like you mentioned with alchemy.
I believe something similar, I think the splitting off of Marika's devout and fanatical zeal was done by the Greater Will to both contain the Giants' curse as well as tackle the challenge of Liurnia and the house of the moon. I think I'm the beginning both the GW and Marika believed this to be a positive development, Marika felt she could explore the Order with greater depth rather than just blind devotion, the part of her that was Radagon found great success in the Liurnian campaign and then a great family life with Rennala, and the GW was able to conjoin yet another major power into its fold. But I think over time, the play backfired, as without her her most fanatical aspect, Marika began to scrutinize the Order beyond what anyone had anticipated, meanwhile Radagon was fulfilled with his family and in danger of being lost to the moon. I think the decision to call this devout aspect of Marika back to the capital was made in a rush by the GW to prevent any further fracturing of its control, bringing both aspects of Marika back into the fold by brutally crushing them together after ripping Marika from her studies and Radagon from his love, so that no other force may get in the way of Marika's commitment to the greater will. Causality and then Regression.
I think I agree. I made a comment noting Radagon's study of sorcery and the establishment of Golden Order Fundamentalism but that basically the synthesis couldn't happen (not that I really gave an answer as to why). Thinking on it more and with that Marika quote, these two aspects couldn't be rejoined. They can exist inside a single person but when separated into different points of view they seemingly cannot be reconciled.
I always thaught the same. Lately I start to think that she shedded her entire male aspect. Radagon is considered a champion so he is a unmatched combatened. Men tend to excel at combat sports compared to women. He is utmost loyal, wich men tend to be more compared to women. And he has the need for territorial expension, wich is a very male thing to do as well.
Regardless of my own thoughts, I agree that all the theories for Radagon's origins have their definite pros and cons. I'd say he's much like Melina and Marika in that we can't say for certain who these people actually are. They're connected to so many concepts and characters, and yet they remain enigmas. And to be honest, as much as I'd like some answers, these questions are what keep the lore so intriguing. I'm looking forward to the other vids you have planned. The way you present theories, and admit that none of them really convince you is quite refreshing. Kind of sad to hear you're already burning out on Elden Ring but...! That's okay. I'm sure the DLC(s) will bring us all running and raving again.
God I love the mystery of Radagon so much. Personally I subscribe to the 'was a different person once, melded with Marika to control her' theory. Also an interesting note, or rather one that a lot of writers implement, is that Radagon was everything Marika was not. It also seems he was the one who was more close with his children, teaching Miquella Golden Order Magics...whereas Marika uh...I mean, she isnt' exactly Mother of the Year worthy. Maybe Radagon could love, Marika couldn't? Who knows! 🤷 Love the video tho!
Amazing video! I've also been so curious about Radagon and at least you've been able to find some theories. I am inclined to believe the "Radagon was created my Marika" theory and the "Radagon bloomed from the Erdtree" theory. Idk his appearance is so sudden in the lore timeline.
Another very good deep dive! God, that one “you are yet to become me” line messes so much up. There’s so much to suggest Radagon and Marika were always one person (the Preceptors’ secrecy being the foremost example) but that line suggests he was originally an unrelated being. And yet we also have the “my other self” in the same conversation…ugh. You familiar at all with Sophie’s theory on Radagon presented on Sinclair’s channel? Her theory is that Radagon was originally simply a soldier that was unquestioningly loyal to the Golden Order, and that Marika fused him into herself because she wanted someone easy to manipulate. The idea of Marika being cursed by the Fire Giants and expunging it in the form of Radagon is drawn from the “curse of their kind” thing in the Giants’ Red Braid. Interestingly another point in favor of the Radagon/Giant connection is the constant emphasis on his hair (as you mention in the video). I don’t buy Radagon wanting the Erdtree to burn - I’m in the camp of Radagon putting the thorns up to keep anyone else from usurping him and creating a new Order. Not sure what evidence we have for Miquella using rot to become St. Trina?
When she says "You are yet to become me," I think she is worried that Radagon will take over her body entirely and Marika herself will cease to exist. That's why she shattered the Elden Ring, "Let us both be shattered."
So everyone seems completely stumped on Radagon's origin stories, but I'm always like "SURELY the brick hammer's item description is referring to him, right?" I mean, I can't be literally the only one to have read that one, but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when no-one is bringing it up.
@Crunchy Nahh, certainly nothing that pops in the same way to me. I just feel that the mention of becoming a champion and the reference to giants is a dead give-away, or at least as close as one can get. One could argue that at the time (as a laborer) he was "a nobody", so nothing there would celebrate him from that era, and Godrick himself seems singularly obsessed with the Golden Lineage so he believably wouldn't put up a statue of Radagon either. Not to mention, Radagon being a worker, he would not be privy to the various storm techniques taught to soldiers. There's a weaker tie-in in the brick hammer's in that it's A HAMMER, drawing a parallel to the Radagon we face in the Erdtree; "The tool with which Queen Marika shattered the Elden Ring and Radagon attempted to repair it", as Marika's hammer's desciption says. And being a "laborer", I can totally see him being good at fixing things, even if he came up short with the Elden Ring. I'm not sure what the rebellion part in the brick hammer's description is about, though I could see it being a coup from within when Godfrey came for the Stormlord, discovering and enlisting a young Radagon in the process (assuming the rebellion is even something referenced elsewhere). I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch, but my impression is that Radagon IS a descendant of giants, and he hates his red hair because it marks him as such (being the Golden Order loyalist he is - he don't want anybody to burn down the tree). You could also draw a parallel between Rennala's and Radagon's romance, and the Astrologers and giants. "Considered them neighbours" the Sword of Night and Flame says, and it's kind of a stretch, but if there ever was inter-breeding between humans and giants, astrologers of old were probably the ones to do it (there's also a theory that Rennala has giant's blood in her, which could explain why it presumably manifested so strongly in Radahn). TL;DR - Radagon was a manual worker who was physically strong and good with a hammer, was possibly discovered by Godfrey when he took Stormveil, so Radagon rose through the ranks, fought in the battle against giants and grew resentful of the people prophesized to have a part in taking down the Golden Order which gave him his new life and made his rise to greatness possible, later he led an army into Liurnia, married Rennala, and later still joined Marika because... I don't know, eugenics? That whole thing is still kind of a mystery to me.
There is one thing I just don't buy with it comes to radagon and rennalas children, it's that they were somehow transformed into demigods when Radagon married Marika, I think it was all just a lie to cover up that they were demigods from the start
Yeah, also I think at one point Enia says the Demigods each and all are direct offsprings of Marika. Which means Ranni, Radahn and Rykard are also direct offsprings of Marika, which would imply Radagon ans Marika were already one when those children were born
To me at this point it's pretty clear Radagon merged with Marika later, because originally, it's flat out told to you that Radagon came from faraway lands. He was his own person with his own body. Since Radagon has different motivations than Marika, I think one can make a very strong case that the Greater Will summoned him before Marika to become her consort. Marika is more or less imprisoned by the Greater Will to be god-queen and lately there have been some strong theories and discoveries that point towards her trying to destroy the Golden Order and the Greater Will, things the game tells you aside (like establishing Marika knew the order was imperfect, which that alone isn't as severe as her actively attacking it). Radagon seems to be a measurement of the Greater Will to further limit Marika, or to at least force her to side with the faith in gold. Radagon's faith holds firm and he's in direct opposition of Marika, even imprisoning her within the Erdtree, evident by his crosshatching pattern on the roots we later burn. Her body was effectively not hers after they merged. Without analyzing much, I believe Radagon was specifically merged with Marika for the Greater Will to keep her under its control. This is further supported by the fact that Radagon rises and fights you in a crumbled form Marika can barely move in, showing he was the one in charge at least at that point in time as a half-switched vessel of the ring. I think this brings up some interesting questions and even answers, including the Greater Will's possible inability to switch the Elden Ring's vessel, having to "alloy" it with someone who's more fit for this task, since Marika formed doubts and saw the impurities within the order and this outer god.
I don't know, I have problems. To me, the imperfections of the order are Marika and Radagon's own doing. Dig on this, Marika straight up removes a Great Rune from the Elden Ring, an action that later has incredible and varied consequences. This action leaves the natural state of death out of the established order and leaves the Elden ring incomplete. I think we can all agree that removing a rune called "Destined Death" is going to have consequences. Now, it's noteworthy that Marika removed a Great Rune. Yet, there are few who have mentioned the fact that Radagon seemingly did the same thing. Crunchy mentioned it, but what about the implications? Radagon had another *removed* Great Rune. Also, consider what the rune is. The Rune of Rebirth. Meaning that Death and Rebirth, the cycle of life itself is straight up gone from the Golden Order. I suppose they thought this would make them eternal, and it sort of did, but it ultimately led to the calamity that followed. *They* did this, not the Golden Order. The Greater Will made the Elden Ring specifically placing those runes in it, or perhaps forming it over time (who can say), but regardless it's intention is clear. It intended for the natural cycle of life and death to be part of it's order, but Marika/Radagon did not. Removing Death/Rebirth, or rather, change seems to be their intention. They wanted their blessed order to last forever. They're Gwyn all over again, methinks. Trying to preserve their way of life only to ultimately doom it. Goldmask had it right. The flaw in the Golden order, was the gods. Not the Greater Will. I think the Greater Will encourages the change, or at least respects it's necessity. After all, if you believe the Frenzied Flame, the Greater Will created disparity in the first place. I'll go one step further. I think that what Radagon saw as a fundamental principle of the Golden Order is wrong. Regression is not the natural state. Or rather, I don't think the Greater Will intends it to be. All things came from the "One Great" as Hyetta (channeling the Frenzied Flame) states. Everything was one. The Greater Will changed that. It made the static, dynamic. It seems off to me that Regression would be part of it's design. Seeing as how Regression is more in line with what the frenzied flame seems to want, a return to the One Great.
Is it possible the shattering of the Elden Ring happened much earlier than most people think? That the shattering caused Radagon to split from Marika, and Radagon’s attempt to repair the ring was an attempt to rejoin with Marika many years later? I can’t recall any evidence explicitly saying these events happened in quick succession.
In my opinion radagon is a different side of marika's personality, he represents the blind faith in the golden order and the greater will within marika, that part always existed within her but didn't manifest as different personality until marika started having doubts and uncertainties about the golden order, maybe she separated that part from herself so that she can study the golden order neutrally? Radagon appeared suddenly and out of nowhere after all yet he possessed a piece of the elden ring itself was chosen to become elden lord and his children are even considered direct offsprings of marika by enia with one of them being the strongest demigod Why would marika send her other self as an army general in a foreign country to marry another woman? For that I have no idea
I think she found out that the two fingers were seeking empyreans to replace Marika "The Eternal" and split her blind loyalty into Radagon coinciding with the supposed curse of the fell god falling on the Radagon half to cause his red hair.
So I feel the strongest baseline we can get is that Radagon and Marika have a "connection" at least immediately after the Liurnian Wars. Personally, I feel Radagon (as an individual or an alter-ego) was used by Marika for a sort of power play. Godfrey is presumably out of the picture at this point, having fought all foes he could be brought against and Marika now saving him for later. However Liurnia for whatever reason was considered a threat by Marika. The astrologers seem to have kept to themselves so I think you can tie this into the struggle for dominance. I find it interesting however that prior to Godfrey's banishment that Marika did not sic him onto Liurnia. Perhaps the reason is that Marika felt Godfrey couldn't be motivated for such a fight, that or also she sought some sort of benefit by establishing political ties. Maybe Marika thought there was something to gain via understanding sorcery, like there was with the induction of dragon worship in the Golden Order. I cannot say for certain it was always a big brain play by Marika to make peace with the Liurnians, but she likely did have the capability to eradicate or neutralize them with Godfrey around if she so wished. You could argue that the Liurnians were a lower priority group to target comparatively to the Fire Giants, I'll grant. I believe Radagon at that time was operating under the direct instruction/support/control of Marika. Radagon is described by Miriel in the context of leaving Rennala and becoming Elden Lord as a "mere champion," that its bizarre that a guy like that could become the second Elden Lord. Radagon being at the head of a golden host, and bringing gifts of gold as "just" a champion seems improbable. Why would Marika direct Radagon to do this? I assume to make him a better fit as an Elden Lord so in turn she can extricate her will. In his study into sorcery and therefore academia became and likely proliferated Golden Order Fundamentalism. But like you pointed out in the video, the greatsword given to him by Rennala was twisted into the Golden Order Greatsword. A sword which interestingly has no intelligence requirement or scaling, unlike Golden Order Incantations. A parallel exists with both the Laws of Regression and Causality incantations, that only have int requirements (I don't really have a point on the incantations but did think it was worth mentioning). Radagon appears to have eschewed all he learned from Rennala. To me the synthesis of ideas seems to have failed, and echoes how Marika and Radagon were incapable of reaching agreement. (This is the leap in logic btw) Its for this reason that I feel Radagon has to be some sort of extraction or is directly Marika. I'm not sure right now if you could directly attribute Radagon/Marika to Regression/Causality but both share this dualism.
Regarding why Radagon hated his red locks and its relation to the Fire Giants: If Marika is Radagon, and Marika fought this big bloody war to try to lay the fire giants down to extinction in her efforts to destroy the Fell God, it could be surmised that Radagon's red hair simply reminded the being(s) of that war. A piece of the past that they'd rather forget, maybe, since most other wars involving the Golden Order seem to be "right" in some moral manner, whilst the war against the giants didn't have a good reason to be fought. They fought the Fire Giants because they feared the power of the Fell God as far as I can tell (the flame's power to burn the Erdtree), which is an awful past to be reminded of every time you go to look in the mirror.
Part of me wants me to think that Radagon was originally separate from Marika, but ultimately underwent a process to 'join' with her. This would have been an instrumentation of Marika herself, as it (to me) was probably an idealistic plan for removing the influence of the Greater Will. I feel that there's enough evidence to prove that Marika ultimately began despising her position as a living God of the Greater Will, and was actively working to separate herself from the entity itself. To "liberate" herself from its grasp so to speak. Perhaps Marika HAD to be female. We know that Ranni becomes the God of Night due to the Age of Stars ending. We know that Melania becomes the God of Rot due to her encounter. I speculate that this is enough evidence to show that Outer Gods _require_ female-gendered beings to act through. We have never seen a living God in that universe that was Male. Even as far back as Placidusax, who was equivalent to an Elden Lord without the Greater Will. There seems to be a fundamental conjunction of Outer God to Living God, then Living God to Lord of the Realm. By actually _joining_ physically with Radagon, Marika would have found some form of loophole; a mechanism that may have only bought precious little time and freedom of will that she could use to enact her own desires and fate. A loophole in the form of a breach of contract, per say, that in sharing gender with Radagon the Greater Will might not have been able to "communicate" or "control" her properly. Note that the shattering happens after Marika joins with Radagon. Personal theory at least, someone didn't read the fine print after becoming a Living God, simple as.
The bald Radagon theory isn't that crazy, actually. George RR Martin has done that before in A Song of Ice and Fire. In the 3 spinoff books of Dunk and Egg, the titular Egg is called that because he shaves his head to hide his very recognizable silver hair, which betrays his lineage. Then, (spoilers maybe) in the end of The Mystery knight, he gains confidence and accepts his heritage, suggesting that he'll hide his hair no longer, but we'll have to wait until the next book to see. (Also some believe that another character in the main series is doing the same, but that's speculation atm)
I think there's a lot here that could be taken many ways, but to me the inclusion of the golden sewing needle is curious. Why would Radagon NEED the needle? Why bring it with him even as he was married to Rennala? Same with the rune of the unborn, and to me they seem connected. We know Radagon had red hair like the rest of the giants, but what if Radagon WAS a giant? Not Just any giant, but their ruler. The flame of ruin now resides within the last giant, and we know even some trolls had to mutilate themselves to remove the influence of the Fel God; What if Radagon was not only the giant's ruler, but also the avatar of the flame of ruin. Marika may have "defeated" the head of the giants the same way Radagon "defeated" Rennala, through marriage. The flame of ruin would need removal, and we already know that flame can hold death from before the time of the erd tree due to deathbird items/spell descriptions, so it's not crazy to speculate that The Flame of Frenzy WAS their Fel God who was removed and housed within a severed finger so that giants who accepted the golden order could be welcomed into it. Here's where the Rune of the Unborn and Radagon's Golden Needle come into play, Marika "birthed" Radagon and he became her faithful hound once removed from the Fel God, but he needed a new identity AND his clothes needed to be adjusted to his new reduced size. Even after his rebirth however he could not get rid of his hair, the last shred of evidence for his former life. This would technically make him a demigod despite what he may have been due to being reborn into a form closer to mortal. Lots of rampant speculation in this but I think it fits, at least somewhat. Perhaps the Fel God did curse Marika, and the red hair not being removed from Radagon was the first sign that those born from her would be cursed. Love the speculation in this video, thanks for putting it together!
All the Celestial Dew in the game is found either underground, or places somehow associated with the Nox. Except one, which is in Raya Lucaria, near the gates (where you get ambushed by a Bloodhound). We know the Liurnians are associated with the Nox - it's where they learned Astrology. Could it be that attacking Liurnia was a way to require forgiveness, and thus ask them to supply the dew that only they had access to? A ruse, all to get the dew, and complete the Radagon mimic
That branch thing the bald monk is holding looks a lot like the Death Rite swords that are associated with the Death Birds - a weapon used by some priests that made a pact with the death birds to find an unusual kind of rebirth.
They're twins. Emperyeons are born from one being. Incest is a common theme of Martin's stories. Twins would make the most sense given all of the evidence. 1 soul but 2 bodies. It lines up with Martin's targaryens and Lannister twins being incestuous. Twins usually end up having twins/triplets and pass that trait on to their kids. Melina and miquella and ranni are emperyeons. I have more notes if you're interested
In my opinion, main problem of elden ring is that there is too much dmg. Im not talking only about enemies but player char as well. Everything dies so quickly. I've finished the game multiple times got all the achivements and i still dont know most enemies and bosses move sets because either i ik them or they ik me.
17:11 maybe it was Marika who was beguiled by the flame? And she had to separate this red-haired, blasphemous part of her to literally keep up appearances, resulting in Radagon. But she kept those heretical believes, while Radagon became the embodiment of order and loyalty to the greater will. If we believe that the events that lead to the fall of the greater will were all part of Marika's master plan, then her looking into the giant's flame could mark the beginning of all that.
not sure if this is relevant but during his boss fight Radagon seems to be either resistant or immune to all forms of damage EXCEPT Fire type damage maybe I'm reaching but it's interesting nonetheless
15:18 I don’t think the Radagon icon depicting Radagon with pure white skin should be taken into account since the Godfrey icon depicts Godfrey with white skin as well which he clearly does not have, this gives the idea that the pale skin on the icons is just an artistic choice.
I'm wondering if the bald guy was Radagon prior to the war with the Fire Giants and there is some sort of connection with their defeat and him gaining his red hair as well as becoming Marikas consort. I don't know what that connection would be but I wouldn't be surprised if it was either a curse or a contract between the Fell God and Marika. I also could see how this could have made him spiteful and set the plans in motion to burn the tree if he had a different life before the curse/contract was made that he was torn away from because of Marika. I'm now wondering if 99% of this game is Marikas machinations being played out and Radagon was just an unwilling pawn forced into his roll, which might help explain why he isn't immediately hostile to you when you fight him but it doesn't explain why he was so devoted to the golden order. To bad we can't talk to him before he becomes a sword to get some of this cleared up lol.
@@mynameismice your point is? Variations of the Elden Ring have existed long before Marika, she is the one who shattered it, and if he led a saintly life that got him statues all over the place id assume he was ok with the way things were. She is the one who destroyed order and I don't know if you could tell or not but Radagon was pretty into the golden order who was trying to maintain the status quo.
there is also a time traveling theory to explain it, that Radagon is in place of Marika in the future, but since Marika holds back time and keeps it in infinite stagnation, the two things starts to overlap and they are both at the same place ( by same place I mean they are inside the erdtree, being the vessel for the elden ring ) - so from Marika's perspective, time stopped and she holds it in an eternal, stagnating loop, while on the outside, Radagon wants to replace her and some sort of time overlap happens when Marika turns into Radagon, maybe the player breaks the frozen time when they enter the erdtree
If you make non-Elden Ring videos, it would be cool to hear you talk about irl mythology. It was neat learning about Loki/Fenrir etc. in this video. Also, if Radagon hated his hair so much, he could always just cut it off - becoming the bald statue depiction later in life. Eventually he would grow it back while stuck inside the Erdtree.
maybe radagon is an anagram of 'a dragon', so merika made a deal with the old dragons (former eldenlords) to become a partial dragon, or maybe she always was part-dragon and through some ritual or something the dragon part and the god part split...
See my immediate impression was a jekyll and Hyde situation. Radagon is like an aspect of Marika that grew in strength and dominance over time. I think he's a curse, either by the crucible, an outer god, or a result of her ties to the golden order, like a robotic and more straightforward and loyal servant to the golden order. Originally an alter ego, as he grew she weakened and this was her most major falling out with the golden order. She would eventually be erased and only Radagon would be left, but without her he'd have no will and no personality. And that's what we see, this machine monster in the final fight, a calculating and mindless slave to the elden beast. This was why Marika shattered the elden ring and plotted to have the order destroyed even after hope was lost for herself.
I liked SmoughTown's theory that at the point of Marika's ascension to godhood, which may have happened upon the defeat of the fire giants, that the greater will may have 'placed' the Radagon personality within her, as a kind of fail safe or contingency plan, as it may have already sensed that Marika was beginning to stray from its vision
I agree, this makes the most sense considering everything we know. The biggest and most glaring problem with the assertion that Radagon was always someone else is 1) we know of in game, Marika is absolutely nowhere in sight during the battle with the Carians, despite being the one to personally put the Giants to the sword, we know she is capable in battle and has been involved in battles in the past, and this "Champion" emerges out of nowhere, and she is just gone the whole time (also in order to become a champion you have to have had done some sort of previous deed of heroism, but that is NEVER mentioned. Instead Radagon seems to just inherently be a "Champion" which to me, means a Champion of the Greater a Will and Golden Order itself, his very being coming into existence a triumph for the Greater Will, especially knowing now how dedicated he is to it) and 2) A warrior, no matter how great would never have access to something as Divine and with so many implications of rebirth as the Amber Egg, let alone the rune that goes with it. The whole POINT of the Elden Ring is to control life. There is just no way around the fact that that kind of power is reserved for Godhood. In fact, Tarnished Archeologist goes into great detail how amber specifically is related to all life in the Lands Between, the Amber Medallions and the Amber drops that were once in the Erdtree. There is definitely some spooky stuff going on that this channel mentions in another video about how things you defeat are then able to be accessed for "absorption", like the theory that Melina is a combo of Marika and The Gloam Eyed Queen after Marila defeated the Gloam Eyed Queen. There is definitely something spooky going on with the concept of blending of life that comes up time and time again.
How about this for evidence of Radagon being part Fire Giant? His son, Radahn? IS HUGE. Rykard and Ranni seemed to take on their mother’s side, but not Radahn, who inherited more of Radagon’s traits. Even if Radagon himself is not massive in frame, if he is part fire giant, then he could have passed down the more dominant genes of his bloodline to his children, like Radahn, but still be more likely to father stunted children more akin to himself, like Ranni and Rykard.
I think the two Ds deserve to be metnioned when it comes to Radagon . They are golden order fundamentalists because only the golden order accepted their condition of being 2 bodies sharing a sould whereas Marika and Radagon seem to be 2 souls sharing the same body. Also it seems that of all the Empyrians in the game only Ranni is capable of becoming a god since Miquella and Malenia are deformed, which to me seems that if Marika was trying to produce an empyrian she might have chosen Rennala as a potential mother after Marika's children started getting born cursed by an outer god (mohg/morgott) and even with Radagon (Malenia is cursed by the god of rot) . Great video btw.
Miquella and Malenia are both capable of becoming Gods and they were chosen by the two fingers to accomplish this, deducted by the title of Empyrean. On top of this, the little white ball enemies with the trumpets appear on the Haligtree, which is further confirmation they are valid candidates of becoming the next gods of the lands between. Malenia nearly turned into a god during her boss fight as well, that of scarlet rot, and Miquella nearly turned into a new outer god, or at the very least, plain god. If not for Mohg's kidnapping, his Haligtree could've killed off the Erdtree and he would've broken free of his curse, even if he failed in completely curing his sister.
I feel the biggest tell in Radagon’s origins is the way his sun turned out size wise. Furthermore I believe Radagon to possible have been the leader or instigator of the trolls betrayal of the giants during the war. Also we know that giants are the originators of smithing and anyone can break something, but only a smith can fix it again and of the two Radagon is the force that tries to repair the ELDEN ring(being a born blacksmith), more evidence to his Giant roots and I could be wrong as I haven’t looked closely at the hues of his Incantations but I feel they carry a red fiery hue to them that isn’t present in other order inactions!
Also in regards to the red haired misbegotten, I believe they was Radagons own version of a shadow wolf and the giant red ones are either the perfected version or a pre transformation version of the red haired misbegotten, as those two creatures are the only mention of Radagon owning/creating somethinf(apart from his kids obviously)
You flashed like a "who is this" on that bald statue in a previous video and I haven't stopped thinking about him. (Also, unrelated, haven't stopped thinking about the statue in both the Siofra river and the Ainsel river, where it has its fingers chopped off.) Who is he? He's obviously meant to be noticed by the player, as he's placed in such prominent locations (RTH, beside Rogier in the Stormveil church, in the Stormveil throne room). My first playthrough, in my little journal, I wrote a note on him down because I thought he was so obviously central to the storyline. Point is: it really feels like From wants us to think about this guy. It has to be someone important enough to have a shit ton of statues commissioned. It's also someone heavily linked with the Golden Order, so recent-ish in the timeline (or at least someone not associated with Farum Azula). There's weirdly not many bald people in Elden Ring. Patches, and that's kind of it. (Someone will let me know if I'm forgetting someone, I'm sure.) So it's likely that it's someone the player doesn't meet (unless, like you suggest, it is Radagon and the red hair is a sort of curse bestowed on him something something fire giant). Even the Onyx and Alabaster Lords have hair, as does de-horned Morgott. I *think* Rykard has hair in the intro cinematic, but it's a moot point because presumably statues of Rykard would be torn down in the RTH. Rennala is bald underneath her hat but we can safely assume that's for hair-clipping-through-hat reasons. Gideon has hair under that helmet (and it appears intentional). So, it's a named character the player doesn't meet who has ties to the Golden Order. This person was literally worshipped in a Golden Order church in Stormveil, presumably as a god or some kind of prophet. Who are the candidates? (1) A character we will learn about or meet in the DLC (sort of similar to a Lady Maria situation where this character is central to the game's storyline). (2) One of the many soulless demigods strewn throughout the Lands Between in the mausoleums. (Again though, weird to have him be so centrally placed!) (3) Miquella before he turned against the Golden Order? No, this statue is obviously old. (Though, there is a resemblance to Miquella's corpse in the egg, but I think we should take very little from the parts of that corpse we can't see in game.) (4) Whoever Miranda is? This is... interesting, given (a) this bald dude likes flowers and (b) the perfumers and those associated with Miranda flowers have a strong association with Leyndell and thus the Golden Order. Maybe Miranda transformed into a flower, and the statue of him emerging from a flower is *actually* a flower coming up to consume (and become) him. (5) The noble Goldmask before he shriveled up? Corhyn says he was a great scholar, but it's not clear if he became a scholar pre- or post-banishment. Perhaps Goldmask was banished along with Godfrey, and Goldmask was a part of Marika's grand plan somehow. (6) All of the statues have lines on their faces that seem to imply capital-r Rot, and as you mention the flowers sort of look like Caelid flowers. No fucking idea what that means. He's not Gowry, and he's presumably not a sorcerer given his obvious ties to the Golden Order. What else is there in post-rot Caelid? Not much. (7) I don't know, man. The narrator in the intro and outro cinematics? Of these, I could be swayed by him being Miranda. But, ultimately I think I'm partial to your unhinged Radagon theory because this statue is just *everywhere* and this man is worshipped in Stormveil, and it would be blasphemous to worship anyone else. But then--is Radagon's thing where at first he didn't have hair and then he did public knowledge? That seems extremely weird. Radagon also is a "leal hound" and this dude just doesn't look like a "leal hound." I don't know. There's a lot of stuff in Elden Ring where the pieces just don't fit together. I wrote all this out hoping to find some answers along the way and I just didn't, haha
FYI, Thops is also bald, but he has a beard. Very interesting about Miranda, I had not considered that. A cut item mentions the “Flower Crucible” in relation to Miranda, so it’s possible all the Miranda stuff originally had a bigger part to play.
It is Miquella, which is why he is bald and has a flower the same color of Miquella’s Lily. The tree besides him is of varying sizes because it is documenting Miquella’s progress growing the Haligtree from his own blood. How he is old I don’t know, exactly. We know St. Trina is the feminine aspect of Miquella, and the St. Trina’s Torch item reads that it “depicts St. Trina, but in adult form, somewhat unnervingly.” Perhaps these statues are equivalent adult form depictions of Miquella. Idols of what he will be rather than what once was. No coincidence, then, that we see them on our path to usurp the existing order, and that he is the only demigod remaining once we’ve laid waste to the Lands Between.
Still finding Elden Ring channels that I all subscribe to so I can see what other people think about the game, just found yours and very new channel only a month old, Elden Ring is your base can’t wait for more theory’s :)
I was always confused to how Radagon was so loyal to the Golden Order but gave it up to marry Rennala, only to go back to the Golden Order. It makes me feel that he might of not had an entirely free will. No matter what I hear about him there is always something in game that contradicts it.
I have to agree. Radagon seems to be getting pulled left and right in everything that relates to him. Whether he was always a part of Marika or joined her later, I think it's clear he was never truly "himself". Though he tried to be. Marika says it herself. He's yet to become her, nothing more than a loyal dog. He also strives to become complete. Radagon knows he's a pawn and tries to better himself when with Renalla but is compelled to return to what he knows. Dude is a pawn of the Greater Will(and Marika?). Ironic considering his devotion to the Golden Order. I think it's a great allegory for those IRL who attach themselves so tightly to any one belief all the while robbing themselves of living more complete lives. They simply become husks(or vessels) for a single idea. Marika represents the opposite end. Those who would burn it all down, for themselves and others, in a pursuit for freedom and understanding. Sorry for the book lol...
I personally like the "twin soul" theory. The D brothers, were of two bodies and two minds, but one soul. Even though they should have been banished or killed for their blasphemous existence, Marika let him into the order. Or at least, that's what I somewhat remember from the twinned armor-set. So the theory goes that Radagon and Marika were of twin souls, but seperate bodies and minds. Though they had their separate lives, at one point Marika called Radagon to be "conjoined" in a single body. Yet, the "single mind" part seems to have failed. Btw, I loved that bit about Radagon's thorns sealing the erdtree. In a sense, it's a self fulfilling prophecy. If you shatter the elden ring, and command the demigods to mend it, yet you seal the door to reach it, then it kinda seems like a very convuluted plan for burning the erdtree. If Radagon was somehow related to fire giants, or monks, this would perfectly align with thise goals.
Looking forward to your next videos ;) it would be nice to see one pointing out the catholic themes too and one on the workings of the golden order and the foundamebtalists as people usually just think of them as villains, but we see from D's quest and from one of the bows that they sincerely wish to understand the world and help others through understanding. Incidentally, it seems that everything went downhill when the order abandoned this tenant in favor of bigotry and elitism.
There's a few critiques I can level at the game (this is in regards to your question at the end of the video) but only a couple that really bother me. 1. The Dogs. Not their move set, per se. It's just that they resemble an AI toddler's bad misunderstanding of what a dog is. they, in now way, resemble or behave like dogs. yet, the wolves are basically perfect. not cool. 2. the Rune bear. 'nuff said. Edit: no. not enough said. The damn rune bear is a crap enemy. Dodge: ineffective. Block: ineffective. Ranged: ineffective. Git gud: ineffective. Their nearly impossible to dodge attacks, the grab attacks, and they're stupid relentless attack chains make them a worthless enemy with bad AI. In short, they're artificial difficulty. they were made hard for the sake of being hard, not because it makes sense for they're place in the wider world. Also, they're aesthetically bad. They hardly look like bears. They look like werebears from a bad WoW knockoff. Lame. Honestly, they strike me as a rejected enemy from sekiro. they would have been a fairly difficult but doable challenge in sekiro, so long as you have the deflect timing down. And their design would've made a certain mechanical sense in that game. basically discouraging you from dodging or or blocking, forcing you to get the parry down. They also probably would've worked fine in Bloodborne, but they don't work in Elden ring, which isn't as smooth or fast as either game mentioned. I honestly think that the rune bear is a bit of legacy text, so to speak, of an earlier design of the combat system and they didn't bother to change them. alright, I'm done now. Rant over.
I realize I’m commenting on a much older video here but I was excited to hear someone else say that they think there is some kind of cover up taking place at the conclusion of the war with the Fire Giants. I’ve been thinking that it may have something to do with the Kindling Maiden who was kept secret either before/during the war, or came into being at its conclusion and was then kept secret to fulfill the prophecy, or break free from GW influence, or simply reenact the natural cycle of life that was halted until “nature found a way” to go all Jurassic Park here. I “suspect” that she Gloam-Eyed Queen might also be involved, regardless of whether she is Melina, Marika, or both, or neither. The location of the godskin swaddling cloth in those mountain tops near the first church of Marika seems to allude to the GEQ either hiding out in that cave biding her time, or something of the like, and perhaps near that spot is where the Gloam Eyed Queen was defeated by her Bale of Shadows and became Marika, hence the First Chruch of Marika. I suppose that just by virtue of being victorious it would make sense to commemorate a church and the new age as well. Where Radagon comes in? Not sure but this video does make me ponder the implications. I find it intriguing that Marika has one really short braid as though it were cut off. Was it used in a ritual? Getting wildly speculative here and possibly contradicting other established lore, but perhaps Marika/GEQ/Fell God/Mother of Truth are all allusions to the God of the Erdtree, now known as Marika, trying to reestablish autonomy from the GW; Gaia, or the anima, or the Empress, the Soul, too long ignored in favor of order and civilization. Thank you for this thought provoking video.
I paused this video to leave a comment like Xryeau, but I see I was beat to the punch about a month ago. ^^; also however to add in favor of Radagon's connection to the Giants, his son Radhan is quite literally a Giant. Larger than the Trolls that are also giants who were allowed to wander the Lands after the defeat of the GIANT Giants. Fire Monks who might just be short Giants, Radagon may have been akin to most directly, and similarly following the Loki connection and the Alchemic connection in relation to a crucible and a rebus, if that particularly theory holds deeper merit. Knowing GRRM, Monks were probably incapable of producing offspring so they were allowed to stick around as long as the lie that their god was dead persisted. Radagon was also known to get around, all the Misbegotten are his children or of relation to him, but they're not Demigods. We see the corpses of many Demigods around the game, the unnamed ones in all the walking cathedrals, and Morgot and Ranni's body. I dunno. It is all confusing, and upon finishing the video I think there even might be merit to the Bald Monk theory.. maybe he started off studying Fire in the time of the Crucible and Godric, then upon the defeat of the Giants became a Golden Order Fundamentalist and shaved his head. As is seen in the statues, it's almost as if the trees there are slowly consuming him.. which could signify an extremely deep committal to the Greater Will and the Elden Beast, enough so to be chosen not by Marika but by the Elden Beast as the next Elden Lord. The more I think about it as that, the more it seems appropriate he is the penultimate boss. I think it's his greed/hunger for power, and lack of either Numen sensibilities is what drives a lot of the game, as we can see it's his Rune that keeps things locked.. Marika was ready for it to be over long ago, but it's Radagon, a Sword for the Elden Beast commanding a Great Rune, that stands in the way of you and nature.
what if Queen Marika fought the Fell God, and it cursed her, causing her to take on aspects of itself and its followers, and Marika excised that part of herself, which became Radagon...theories 2 and 3--the most thematically fitting theories--wrapped up in one
Consider the possibility that Radagon is based on the "shards of manus" from Dark Souls such as Nashandra. They were women who specifically sought out men who were Lords of Cinder/Sunlight in order to corrupt them. This time around it is gender swapped, with Radagon being a "fragment of the fell god" who marries Marika with the goal of corrupting her intentions simply as revenge for her destroying the giants. This would explain why Radagon dorectly opposes Marikas actions, teying to repair what she wishes to destroy.
Another great video. I personally always wondered if there was a connection between Marika and Radagon, and D, Hunter of the Dead, and D Beholder of Death. That whole Two but One thing, ya know?
Could Radagon be a Marika respec? That's why radagon had the egg and why radagon just appears. Clearly they end up as two entities in one body. Did Marika become Radagon? Was Radagon separate, then absorbed Marika when she shattered herself? If they were separate, was he some guy or did Marika create him, like Melina?
I think the think with Empyreans is more simple than genetics and natural philosophy: it's politics. Empyrean is not a race, it's a nobility title. Ranni and siblings were not Empyreans when they were born, but they because Empyreans when their daddy acquired a nobility title, after marrying Marika. Celestial Dew: Radagon is gold and sun, Rennala is silver and moon. He had to reverse antagonism in order to marry her.
I didn't notice until you mentioned the statues of the old man, how the larger statues seem to depict him standing within a tree-like structure in bloom, very much like the underground dwellers worshipping the Ancestral Spirit, which strictly goes against the doctrine of the Golden Order. Oh, and, real short... the only bad thing I have to say about Elden Ring is that the "difficulty" spike going from Leyndell to the Mountops of Giants is.. horribly scuffed. I just can't imagine a reason for enemies to be so ballbustingly hard there, even at higher levels. Insanely tanky and also dealing ridiculous amounts of damage. Anytime I beat Morgott at the foot of the Erdtree and proceed towards the mountains are the times I realize that my enthusiasm for the game starts fading, and I begin taking more and more breaks between play sessions. Just thinking about the mountaintops makes it difficult for me to want to keep playing.
Here is a wild theory but what if Radagon spawned from Marika after she defeated the Fire Giants. Now, why would the last of the Fire Giants serve a the protector of the one thing that could end the Age of the Erdtree? Let's say that when Marika stoke down the Fell God she took the Fell God's power into herself. Basiclly turning the Fire Giant's God into a hostage. After some time maybe Marika couldn't hold in all of the Fell God's power and some of it and along with some of the Fire Gaint's physical characteristics were separated from her, Radagon. Then, when Radagon was removed from Marika he took with him her loyalty to the Greater Well, which lead her to eventually shatter the Elden Ring. It might even be that when he was divided from Marika, like a new born, he didn't have his trademark red hair and was bald for sometime, thus making him the bald monk in his youth.
I think depicting someone emerging from a tree it's just a Golden Order's custom that may be only reserved for very important people. Thus the bald monk might be just one of the many misteruous characters who helped build the fundamentalism of the Order.
In my Simple mind I can say that Radagon and Marika were different people but as Marika Shattered the Elden Ring and Radagon tried to repair it yet Failed the Greater Will or Elden Beast Cursed them to become one and both will be Suffering from there Crucification like Chamber within the Erd Tree.
Since Maliketh has a unique connection to Marika as her shadow, should that connection also carry to Radagon? As far as I remember, Maliketh and Radagon are never mentioned in relation to each other. Curious if there’s anything interesting down that road
I don't think so, and if anything this shows that Radagon was independent at some point before Liurnia's wars at the very least. Maliketh himself as far as I can tell was only bound to Marika and didn't care much about Radagon or Godfrey.
I think radagon lusted for Queen Marika's power over the elden ring. It wasn't enough being elden Lord. That's why Marika shattered the elden ring. She didn't want a tyrant taking control over that much power. Radagon wanted to become like Marika in godhood
What if Radagon is a construct, but he succeeded where the silver tears failed not simply because he was made of gold, but because he was made in the giant’s forge. Perhaps, in exchange for leaving the fell god alive within the last fire giant, Marika had the fell god make Radagon in the forge. This could explain the red hair and how radagon is related to the fire giants, as well as why he doesn’t like his red hair. Maybe because marika anticipated that she would need to do away with godfrey, and wanted an absolutely loyal lord without his own ambitions aside from pursuing the interests of the golden order. Of course, as we see, they grow apart as marika begins having doubts of the golden order. I’d imagine that Marika and Radagon were then conjoined after marika shattered the elden ring and radagon failed to repair it, which was an attempt by the golden order to keep marika in check. It’s possible that it was radagon who was even making the rune arc crucifying marika in the first place.
I thought "That was a curse of THEIR kind." was very deliberate to lead the reader into thinking Radagon was a giant. Lookj at the first sentence. "Every giant has red hair AND Radagon despised his own red hair." Occam's Razor suggests the least assumption is that Radagon is a giant.
Maybe Marika and Radagon are like D, one soul two bodies. Which would be why the Golden Order was one of the only organizations that didnt see the brothers as accursed beings.
Man, the red hair braids item I found.. Made me sooo crazy... Thinking the curse of red hair that fell upon Marika after defeating the giants is the reason she made this "other self" to distance herself from it. And that's the reason why he hates it...
What if , it was queen marika came as radagon to learn Magic and cripple and carina empire, and then just left!! Thinking it was radagon! Lol excuse the spelling !
one thing to note with the divinity of man itself is Adem was whole as a hermaphrodic being but because he longed for accompaniment God took from him a part and made Eve. And thus man must cleave together with woman to be a whole entity. Miyazaki and Martin could have thought of this knowing their mindsets.
If Radagon was always Marika, then perhaps Marika deliberately had an affair in the form of Radagon with Renala in order to break her heart and create the animosity in Ranni that would later cause Ranni to resist the Order. Marika seems to want to induce strife in people, so they would resist the order and change it in any way they see fit. Using the form of Radagon this way is just another way of doing so. Also, the way Marika may have been able to do this at all is because Marika is a mimic. That's her connection to the Numen.
I always thought the Marika/Radagon schism was like a split personality situation. They are different people with different motivations, but they occupy the same body. The bedchamber conversation, I always thought, was about Marika being worried that Radagon would take over entirely. This is one reason why she shattered the Elden Ring, to prevent being wiped out of existence. I think Marika was supposed to be a figurehead, a vessel of the Elden Ring. But when she began to assert her own will, the Elden Beast/Greater Will attempted to take back control by manifesting Radagon. So Radagon wasn't around until Marika began to have doubts and reconsider her role.
Crazy idea: what if when Marika said, "let us be shattered together" she meant it because she is cursed with the Elden Beast and Radagon is cursed with the Fell God?
Here's fuel for the fire that is the ErdTree Mushroom theory is the ErdLeaf flowers. At the start of the game we see the Erd Leaves falling, but leaves don't make flowers irl. Mushrooms however use spores to spread, so what if these ErdLeaf Flowers we find are just spore grown mushrooms?
I agree that radagon has some clear connections to the fire giants, while it's not clear how I believe he was somehow a product of their defeat and assimilation by the golden order. Over and over it's shown that the golden order and the greater will are willing to adapt and assimilate new things to further it's own power and influence, radagon even participates in this cycle with his marriage to rennala. As Marika begins souring towards the greater will and plots to undermine it I believe the greater will combines radagon and marika into a single being as a form of control. Radagon is described as a zeal hound of the golden order, I'm sure combining marika and radagon was an attempt to quell her rebellious plans with his relentless loyalty.
I think that it´s important to consider Radagon´s motivations in order to understand him. We know from many sources that Marika grew cold to the golden order, being potentially involved with the night of black knives, telling Melina that her purpose was to burn the Erdtree, taunting Radagon as a hound of the golden order and ultimately shattering the elden ring. Since Marika´s shadow was occupied with guarding the rune of death the golden order might have felt the need to keep Marika in check so that she doesn´t do anything too reckless to oppose it. Another thought that occured to me was that the Liurnian war´s outcome might have been orchestrated by the golden order all along. If the Order sensed that Rennala´s night and connection to the stars might be a worthy opponent, it could´ve sought to neutralize the threat by taking advantage of her one weakness: her emotions. So the order made Marika disguise as a man with red hair, ordered him become a devout disciple and made him carry out a romantic cleansing ceremony that weakened the heart of the moon queen. Now that they´re in love, Renalla is emotionally unable to completely oppose the golden order since it´s exactly what her husband stands for. After years of charade, Marika´s alter ego could´ve manifested to be it´s own personality inside of her. It´s only after Ranni was born and Radagon fled to the capital that Marika could´ve reconnected with her actual self, her contempt for the order. That´s why Radagon never became her. Because her feelings and her powers are hers alone, no matter how long he dwells inside her body. As for his connection with the giants: I think this might be but a cruel taunt of the order. The golden order acts as a parasite and so it poses at what it defeats. The order was first known to be present as the ruling religion of Azula and it made a dragon its Elden Lord. The numen race of the eternal cities got defeated by the golden order and Marika, a numen, becomes its god. The Fire Giants get defeated and so the golden order incorporates their appearance and strength by making a new figure in the order look like one. The order overtakes the Carians and their wizard academy and the firstborn of a golden order union aka of the empyrians gets born as a witch (Ranni). Seems like a reoccuring theme to me.
Theory: Radagon is originally the laborer who became a rebel who became a champion from the Brick Hammer description. As a servant class person he may very well have been misbegotten (cementing his connection to the other misbegotten, particularly the lions) originally, or a troll (cementing his connection to the giants) and transformed himself through the rune of rebirth and the egg, possibly as a reward from Marika (mirroring Boc's story and relationship with the PC.) The descriptions marked use of the word champion immediately brings Radagon to mind and the additional comment about it needing giant's strength to wield could be a hint as well, as Radagon is connected to the giants in various other ways.
There is the cut quest of Assimi, where she later tells us that she wished that we would become Elden Lord and she "souvereign eternal". Also Asimi needs us to drink from two sources one filled with golden magic and the other with star magic, to become a perfect whole. Kinda like Radagon who studied the stars and the Golden Order as well. Also the Mimic Tears enemys are called "Marikaslimelegacy" in game. So what im assuming is that either Radagon or even Marika herself are mimic tears that later on merged fully with their original copy.
The erd tree was grafted onto the stump of the great tree. This IS the crucible. The reason the omen are despised is because they prove the erdtree is failing and the rootstock is trying to take back over and creates them. The statues in leyndell show the competition the erd tree had and the later ones show it as the winner. A single golden flower that would eventually become the giant golden tree.
As of today I am 634 hours in Elden Ring. It's a fantastic game. There are so many aspects of the game that I like better than previous FromSoft titles. But there are also plenty of aspects of their previous works that I like better than Elden Ring. Even Dark Souls II! But from a lore and story prospective... Elden Ring makes no damn sense. You can read and re-read dialogue and item descriptions until you are blue in the face. And all the questions you have will only lead to and be met with even more questions. The released version of the game just doesn't contain enough actual information to answer so many questions we have. Whether this is due to cut content, because there is ALOT of cut content, even from the network test, which was only a couple months before release. Or due to planned expansion with DLC or even sequels. FromSoftware KNEW this was going to be a smash hit due to how much it was anticipated and how well the announcement and reveal trailers were received. I don't know. What I do know is we are at the point where we are just speculating on our own speculation. Let's go back to Dark Souls. Do you remember how many YEARS Solaire was the son of Gywn? We are only 6 months into Elden Ring. All I know, is I don't know. Marika is a god. Gods exist beyond mortal understandings. In multiple religions across the world gods are multiple beings and yet still One at the same time. In ancient mythologies gods would turn themselves into different beings to test the hearts of men and for their own reasons beyond comprehension too. That is my take on Marika & Radagon without using the story or the lore. Because if you do, you just end up with more questions. Didn't mean this to be so long. Elden Ring is a phenomenal game! But my favorite FromSoft game goes to Sekiro. Why? Two reasons. 1. Makes sense. 2. Pause button.
It is explained that Outer Gods come from the outer space they send their vassals that can be anything to control aspects of the Ring, if it comes down to Marika, Marika is some sort of mortal god choosen by the OUTER Gods that is affected by the laws of the Elden ring. Ranni's Questline explains much more, she was the one who was chosen by the Greater Will to replace Marika, she explains this in detail.
Elden Ring itself does not present you with all of the information necessary to put together the story or lore, instead it relies on such things called allusions and allegory. Marika, for example, is not simply the character “Marika”. Marika as a character represents the chemical Mercury (Hg). We can deduce this from the lore somewhat but what makes it clear is when you look at the Elden Ring source material, REAL WORLD alchemical spirituality. Marika is inspired by the white queen of alchemy, who is inspired by the Roman goddess Diana. They are both association in those religions with the chemical mercury. You need to have already known about the concepts of the white queen / red king from alchemy to make that connection, so I don’t blame you for missing it. The game won’t make that connection for you, but its there and intentionally. Similarly, you need to have already known about the religious concept of the Divine Hermaphrodite to make the connection that the character of Marika / Radagon is based on that. The fact that the God of this world is a hermaphrodite is not a coincidence, and is a reference to a historical theory which posits that cultures within empires in decline tend to worship hermaphroditic entities. Back to mercury, though. Mercury is interesting in that it literally poison trees and kills them slowly from the inside. Thus, we can interpret Marika’s plot to kill the Erdtree as a sort of mythologization of that real world bio-chemical process. Mercury, within those previously mentioned religions, is also associated with womanhood, the cold, the moon and witchcraft. Those who worshipped Diana were often persecuted women, so they turned to occultism and conspiracy. Thus, we can ALSO interpret Marika’s plot to undermine the Erdtree and the Golden Order to the real world history of occult women plotting to undermine patriarchal religious society. I could go on and on like this forever. We have only covered one single character and not even nearly in her entirety. The story and world is incredibly rich with interesting social, historical, religious and even scientific commentary. You need to know how to find it and be willing to learn a thing or two about the real world and the sciences / history / religion, but it’s very satisfying to piece together.
@@davidgomez3044 Quite the contrary. Elden Ring, just like all the other Souls games, presents you with exactly enough information to piece together everything.
@@Nerazmus Did you read my comment in its entirety? There are many connections which are impossible to make without pre-existing education of European history, alchemical mythology or the bio-chemistry of metals in forests. You can piece together “the plot” fine enough, but you can’t understand the allegories and thematic commentary.
Convinced the statue is Radagon. If he was born from the branches he may not have had it at "birth" or he shaved it to go to war or the celestial dew cleansed him and the hair. Really want to know more about the fire giant god
17:25 Counterargument: Radagon also uses no sorceries in his bossfight, despite it being well known he had studied them in the past. If Radagon were to abandon sorceries, then he would abandon fire incantations a thousand times over especially considering that he hates his (presumed) heritage
Under rated comment, you are correct. In fact, it only seems natural to me that the power of fire is prohibited to Radagon. I believe Radagon is tokenism set up by the greater will after conquering the giant war, in order to assimilate and better control the lesser giants, the descendants of giants and others under erdtree's order. Same apply to Marika, a tokenism to the descendants of eternal city, Numen and Nox, that's where Sellia comes from btw, even under the influence of the erdtree, just a sidenote, I believe Marika was the gloam eyed queen herself, she get betrayed and defeated by her own shadow Gurranq and too get assimilated into the being as she is now, a vessel of the God's will. Back to the topic, same apply to Ranni, as the first heir of Carian Royal, being appointed by two fingers as empyrean so that the erdtree could better assimilate and control the Carian loyal and the Raya Lucaria. Everything connected isn't it? I formed entire plot and story/theory to these and it seems true to me, but it will end being an essay cuz basically everything connected with each other, so I will stop at here.
That being said, we must acknowledge that he is the figurehead of the fundamentalist school of incantation, often perfectly marrying/requiring faith and intelligence (sometimes requiring intelligence alone) to be properly wielded. Not only that, but the criss cross pattern of the seal upon the Erdtree is the very same as the seals protecting Raya Lucaria, only golden. It seems to me that Radagon didn't completely abandon sorceries so much as he weaved them into the things Marika taught him, giving way to his own ideal of what magic should be.
@@ultrabear1583 Dear Mr Bear , thanks for these words as long as they might be that is what im looking for ! As it happens like many others im banging my brains to figufe stuff out so would you be open to conduct a 4,5 min chat with me some time , I have a couple of questions that I think you might have better answers to !
@@geraltapprentice6394 yea sure mate, feel free to ask any questions about elden ring, I'm happy to share what I observed, noticed and knowledges I had over the periods of lore hunting.
By the time we fight him, he is already dead and the corpse its manipulated by the elden beast....thats why he uses not magic
The big thing about radagon and the fire giants for me is that aside from the braid alot of descriptions that mention fire giants can parallel radagon in so many ways just of the top of my head.
There's the sword of night and flame which was made by the early astrologers and fire giants BUT can also be seen as a parallel of radagon and rennalas marriage and union.
The trolls hammer said that trolls were descended from giants and that they considered smithing divine radagon is a divine who uses a hammer and from the golden order greatsword description we know smiths
Then there's the sword of milos a sword made of the bones of an undersized giant who was hated by his own kind. And what's radagons a potential undersized giant who hates his own kind's eventual fate? Being made into a sword!
Who is Radagon? No, who WAS Radagon?
In this case, the best question really might be... Why is Radagon?
But nobody ever asks: how are you, Radagon?
@@spacecowboy5486 well, by the time you get to him he is too busy whooping your ass to listen to anything
I'll do you one better, why is radagon?
But gentlemen these replies beg another question...WHEN is Radagon?
Has anyone thought about the idea that maybe the spear in Marika's side when she's crucified is Radagon? When she drops from the arc, the spear dissapears and radagon takes over, as if the spear was absorbed. He never uses the thorn in his boss fight either, which is odd. It is also the color of copper, or "red-gold". Perhaps it's also a shard of Amber Starlight so that Marika can be puppeted by the Greater Will after she begins to question the Order. Just a thought.
The spear is destined death, after u return death to the lands between, if u look good death return to the rune,
Consider that causality is a big part of the Golden order religion. Radagon already is part of Marika in the future, but not in the past. Causality means it's already happened, we just haven't gotten there on the timeline yet
My thoughts exactly, this also plays very nicely with certain traditional Japanese approaches to storytelling, such as film making, which are more concerned with moods and themes than strict adherence to linear structure.
This video stands a foot above every other lore video that just repeats item descriptions and doesn't try to connect the dots.
Please keep making these.
At some point the souls lore community got really “clinical” and “scientific,” which may be bc dark souls III is a pile of half finished ideas and loose ends (Sekiro lore community was much smaller so I’m skipping that.) The best DaS3 lore videos ironically relied on DaS1 far more than the newer game, bc that’s where the cohesive lore was. Ring is far more cohesive than DaS3, but it’s also harder to interpret than DaS1. Weird spot.
@@sams7068 This is why I asked him specifically about the connection between the very sparse descriptions of a father of darkness and the quest line that Ranni is put upon and put you upon. The fact that her dialog references the dark references references mystery and being alone and fear makes me think that the father of darkness might be an outer god that is guiding Ranni. I ask him that because I don't like any other The lower hunter will dive so deep and attempt to make connections where it's all but compresensable
Check out Smoughtown, he's great too.
@@arcanefire7511 I watch him and I agree.
Ziostorm's not bad as well.
Agree 100%
I try to simplify it with a twist on your homunculus take: Marika is the Elden Ring and can extract runes from it as she did with Destined Death. Marika extracted the rune of order from the Elden Ring which became Radagon - his symbol of the lattice that supports the Elden Ring from behind.
Damn that's a good one. But why didn't the rune of the unborn manifest itself in the form of a being like radagon or Melina?
@@victorprati7908 The amber egg it was trapped in contained it?
@@Nostradevus1 oh yeah possibly!
On the issue of Radagon and Marika becoming one, I think its worth noting that Radagon is tied to the chemical Copper in that his symbol is clearly inspired by copper’s alchemical symbol. Marika meanwhile is associated with the chemical Mercury. In real world chemistry, pouring a liquid mercury onto solid copper forms a hard alloy of mercury co-crystalized with cooper. Also, in soil, copper pellets will attract mercury due to their small magnetic charge.
To add to this, it seems the 4 chemicals typical of alchemical amalgams (Mercury, Silver, Tin, Copper) are associated with the 4 main parents of Elden Ring, Marika (Hg), Rennala (Ag), Godfrey (Sn) and Radagon (Cu).
Where does all these comparisons between ER characters and chemicals even come from. I can't even remember copper being mentioned in game, and all of Radagons tools are gold, not copper.
@Charles Hastings yeah i know that but what connects those specefic characters with those specefic alchemical substances?
@@frokiedude0334 use brain next time
@@frokiedude0334 nothing bro, use brain
The D twins' lore could support the theory that Marika and Radagon were always one being.
From D's armor :
"The two known as D are inseparable twins.
They are of two bodies and two minds, but one single soul. Not once do they stand together; not one word do they speak to one another."
From the Inseparable Sword :
"The inseparable twins found solace in the Golden Order,
the only institution not to revile them as accursed beings."
It would make sense that the Golden Order would accept them if Marika herself was the same type of being, two bodies, two minds and one soul.
Wait... Does that means they'r twins too?
Not to mention that one of the fundamental principles of the Golden Order, as espoused by Radagon, is the law of Regression, that disparate parts naturally seek to merge.
@@lopolka5373 SWEET HOME ALABAMA!
(I had to do it)
But the D twins clearly are two distinct bodies, since we cleary see the first D being killed by Death Blight, there is no way this body is the same as the second D we find near the Deeprooth Depths, cleary even though they would share a soul, they do not share a body.
Whereas with Marika and Radagon there is a serious question if they ever were two separate bodies or not, we cleary see Marika transforming into Radagon in-game and in-trailer, but there might be a possibility that in the past Radagon and Marika were two distinct people, with two bodies.
Pure speculation:
An interesting hypothesis i've seen before is that Marika might be similar to Asimi, the silver tear that can invade bodies (this is cut content). Maybe the Nox's ultimate weapon against the Greater Will was the succesful creation of an artificial being like Marika. Maybe Marika invaded Radagon's body at one point, thus becoming a single entity later.
We cleary see that Marika rebels against the Greater Will, which pushes her to shatter the Elden Ring, she is cleary the half of the Rebis that wants to remake the Order somehow, Radagon is the half that wants to preserve it now.
I theorized St Trina is both Miquella and Malenia combined.
Idea inspired by @Smouhghtown's most recent video: Radagon is the only Fire Monk who was able to resist the Flame of Ruin and the Fell God's influence, and was chosen to be Marika's alter because of this.
You point out in this video that the only real problem with the Radagon = Fire Monk theory is him not ever utilizing fire abilities. I noticed in Smoughtown's video on the Fire Monks that there is a significant difference between "post-shattering"/modern Fire Monks and their initial form: wherein they were the initial guardians and defenders of the Flame of Ruin, but /not/ venerators of it. Their utilization of "o fire" incantations and depictions of the Fell God on their armor is due to some kind of innate transfixing effect the Flame has: one who watches upon it, even to defend it from being worshipped, will eventually and ironically begin worshiping it themselves (See o, Fire incantations and Fire Monk Ashes).
I posit that this is due to the Fell God's influence and Radagon seems to have some sort of innate ability to avoid/negate(?) the influence of Outer Gods. He is still subservient to the golden order though, and willingly accepts the guidance of the Greater Will as he is, as you point out, probably /the/ original Golden Order Fundamentalist. Keyword though being: fundamentalist. That seems to implicate a resistance to the increasingly frequent incorporation of heresy into the Golden Order's beliefs, which would correlate to the resistance to Outer God influences I feel.
Finally, I would like to posit that the Fire Monks were originally much more like the Golden Order Fundamentalists. Not necessarily in name, but in belief and ability. Think about it. Who in the world is a fundamentalist, or even uses their spells? I believe Radagon, Godwyn (pre soul death), and maybe Goldmask to be the only possible ones we find in game, and Goldmask is tarnished so there doesn't really seem to be any non-god fundamentalists left in the world when tarnished are let in to the lands between. (Corhyn seems to reluctantly accept the use of heresies) As the Fire Monks would likely utilize some form of incantation before falling to the Fire and using the Fire Giant-adjacent Fire Monk spells, what would they have used? Likely one of the lines of incantations that do bear lineage from the Golden Order, as they were made to be defenders of the Flame by Marika and the Golden Order. Out of those options we have the "Golden Order" and "Erdtree" incantation lines, and the Erdtree line seem to be more diverse in effect and much more utilized by the living members of the order like the Crucible Knights, Leyndell Knights and even Maliketh, while the Golden Order ones seem to be strictly utilized by devout members who adhere strictly to the Order (really, only Radagon at this point as many of the attacks are literally just his boss attacks for player use [subthought in a subthought whoaaaaa I also just noticed that Order's Blade, which enchants your weapon with Holy damage and I thought broke that pattern, depicts the Golden Order greatsword, which is actually Radagon's sword]) and it's /fundamentals/ of Golden, holy Magic that induces Order. I think these incantations were used by the wider population of Fire Monks when they were less Fire Monks and more Fire Guardians as they were initially intended.
Jfc you're awesome. What great catches and ideas to chew on, man!
you bonkers son
"The Erdtree might have been a giant mushroom because it feeds on dead things."
Or it could have been a giant tree, because trees *also* feed on dead things. Fungi aren't the only things that can decompose organic material, and trees can be nurtured with the dead just fine. In fact, an increasingly popular burial method intentionally uses the body to nurture a tree.
Also it looks like a tree.
Trees on its own cannot decompose stuff, it’s just the fungi that lives symbiotically with the tree roots that do it. Then the root takes it in.
I'd like to take this time to remind everyone that tree roots (and most plant roots) grow with symbiotic fungi known as Mycorrhizae. This fungus acts as a way to produce valuable nitrogen compounds and even acts as a bridge of communication between two plants. Proper mycorrhizal growth leads to stronger plants with better immune systems.
IT also means that plants use a fungus-based internet.
yeah the mushroom thing is weird because trees like any plant feed on decay.
@@VultureXV the forest network! I always love reading about it
I think you're onto something with the homunculus angle and being related to the nox practices, because seluvis specifically needs you to find amber starlight shards (which are gold) rather than normal ones (which are silver) in order to turn an empyrean into a puppet. It seems that silver simply isn't as powerful as gold, and that's why Marika succeeded where the nox did not
When I first paused and read "who is bald guy?" I was hoping it was something to do with Patches. Getting to the end of the video though, that does become a great question. Miquella tended to and tried to grow his own Erdtree. We know the Erdtree did not always exist or have the power it has in the time of the game. Perhaps bald guy is who tended to the original Erdtree, which eventually gave Miquella the inspiration or starting knowledge to attempt it himself? Though why someone of that importance would be completely without mention in the game is curious. Mayhaps, similar to the crucible knights, their origins and history contradicted the message of the current day Golden Order, and were therefore expunged from the annals of history? Great video!
As someone who’s been arguing the Radagon=Mimic theory for months.
A few things I’d like to bring up to sorta add, his egg given to rennala uses larval tears of silver tears to change our form, and if you hold celestial dew is the base of silver tears that connects them more. And his unborn rune could be argued to describe Albernarics due to the handicaps. And you also have the idea that once Radagon and Rennalas child is the one to bring back the moon of the eternal cities. So perhaps Marika needed the Full Moon Queen, and her Golden Sun Hound to finally consumate in order to bring about a eclipse aka Ranni and she bring the age of stars aka the Eternal cities true goal. You could also argue Marika would have known the elden beast would have used her for sacred relic sword due to the ancient treasure of the eternal city the Fingerslaying blade.
OH SHIT 👀 fuck the new MCU film, this is finally something hype to actually look forward to
Could Radagon have been separated from Marika during the war against the fire giants? The fire is hot enough to burn the erdtree. Why couldn’t it separate the two of them just like in alchemy?
I think an aspect glossed over with the M/R thing is why Marika took Godfrey as an Elden Lord while Radagon ran around doing stuff and then banished Godfrey and called Radagon to her to become Elden Lord. This means that effectively Marika was both the Empyrean (housing god/Elden Ring) and the Elden Lord. If we look at Placidusax the dragon also seems to have a male/female thing going on with one head being larger than the other. So again, there's that God/Elden Lord being one in the same thing. Also says something that both Marika and Radagon come across as made of stone or petrified - Placidusax being an Ancient dragon is also stonelike. Wonder if that particular form is a necessity in order to house the Elden Ring as an Empyrean in mythology is the place in which God dwells, which ties into the Firmament.
idk people rarely bring up exactly what an Empyrean is past the game lore - it's a place that is said to inhabit the fifth element and fire - including the place in which "God dwells" it is the upper most area of heaven having Aether (the air gods breathe). Aether, beyond its alchemy mythos, is a greek deity (personification of the air gods breathe) who was the child of Erebus (darkness) and Nyx (night). If you look at the Elden Ring or Elden Beast you'll notice the ring itself is suspended in "darkness" or a black substance.
Anyway. lol
Theyre the missing heads of placidusax, the old lord talisman only has 4 heads.
Being timeless and going by his ring id posit that the primordial ring is the ring of 'the one great' and rather than leaving placidusax it seperated into greater will(order) and frenzied flame (chaos). Once the elden beast arrives it decapitates the two heads and they somehow become marika (chaos) and radagon(order). Pretty wild speculation but it never sat right that Radagons name rearranges to a dRagon 😅
Personally I believe the bald monk statue represents the man responsible for ensuring the growth of the tree. Just like Miquellas blood was required to ensure the growth of the hailigetree and it stopped once Mogh removed him from it, it is possible this monk was sacrificed or willingly gave himself as food. The reason why there are blooms at the feet of the statues of both Marika and radagon at least in my head cannon, is because the tree gave life to both of them at opposite ends of the greater will Desire ; regression and causality this would explain how they can be different entities while remaining the same being. It is posible since Queen Marika wanted the existence of only one God that she convinced her other half to merge to achieve that goal however broke the Elden ring in the process.
As soon as I heard theory #2 it made me think of this dialogue:
"I declare mine intent, to search the depths of the Golden Order. Through understanding of the proper way, our faith, our grace, is increased. Those blissful early days of blind belief are long past."
Maybe Marika separated the part of her that was faithful to the golden order so she could better understand it somehow, and then recombine after some point so she could be more perfect, like you mentioned with alchemy.
I believe something similar, I think the splitting off of Marika's devout and fanatical zeal was done by the Greater Will to both contain the Giants' curse as well as tackle the challenge of Liurnia and the house of the moon. I think I'm the beginning both the GW and Marika believed this to be a positive development, Marika felt she could explore the Order with greater depth rather than just blind devotion, the part of her that was Radagon found great success in the Liurnian campaign and then a great family life with Rennala, and the GW was able to conjoin yet another major power into its fold. But I think over time, the play backfired, as without her her most fanatical aspect, Marika began to scrutinize the Order beyond what anyone had anticipated, meanwhile Radagon was fulfilled with his family and in danger of being lost to the moon. I think the decision to call this devout aspect of Marika back to the capital was made in a rush by the GW to prevent any further fracturing of its control, bringing both aspects of Marika back into the fold by brutally crushing them together after ripping Marika from her studies and Radagon from his love, so that no other force may get in the way of Marika's commitment to the greater will. Causality and then Regression.
I think I agree. I made a comment noting Radagon's study of sorcery and the establishment of Golden Order Fundamentalism but that basically the synthesis couldn't happen (not that I really gave an answer as to why). Thinking on it more and with that Marika quote, these two aspects couldn't be rejoined. They can exist inside a single person but when separated into different points of view they seemingly cannot be reconciled.
I always thaught the same. Lately I start to think that she shedded her entire male aspect. Radagon is considered a champion so he is a unmatched combatened. Men tend to excel at combat sports compared to women. He is utmost loyal, wich men tend to be more compared to women. And he has the need for territorial expension, wich is a very male thing to do as well.
Regardless of my own thoughts, I agree that all the theories for Radagon's origins have their definite pros and cons. I'd say he's much like Melina and Marika in that we can't say for certain who these people actually are. They're connected to so many concepts and characters, and yet they remain enigmas. And to be honest, as much as I'd like some answers, these questions are what keep the lore so intriguing.
I'm looking forward to the other vids you have planned. The way you present theories, and admit that none of them really convince you is quite refreshing.
Kind of sad to hear you're already burning out on Elden Ring but...! That's okay. I'm sure the DLC(s) will bring us all running and raving again.
God I love the mystery of Radagon so much. Personally I subscribe to the 'was a different person once, melded with Marika to control her' theory. Also an interesting note, or rather one that a lot of writers implement, is that Radagon was everything Marika was not. It also seems he was the one who was more close with his children, teaching Miquella Golden Order Magics...whereas Marika uh...I mean, she isnt' exactly Mother of the Year worthy. Maybe Radagon could love, Marika couldn't? Who knows! 🤷 Love the video tho!
Amazing video! I've also been so curious about Radagon and at least you've been able to find some theories. I am inclined to believe the "Radagon was created my Marika" theory and the "Radagon bloomed from the Erdtree" theory. Idk his appearance is so sudden in the lore timeline.
Another very good deep dive!
God, that one “you are yet to become me” line messes so much up. There’s so much to suggest Radagon and Marika were always one person (the Preceptors’ secrecy being the foremost example) but that line suggests he was originally an unrelated being. And yet we also have the “my other self” in the same conversation…ugh. You familiar at all with Sophie’s theory on Radagon presented on Sinclair’s channel? Her theory is that Radagon was originally simply a soldier that was unquestioningly loyal to the Golden Order, and that Marika fused him into herself because she wanted someone easy to manipulate.
The idea of Marika being cursed by the Fire Giants and expunging it in the form of Radagon is drawn from the “curse of their kind” thing in the Giants’ Red Braid. Interestingly another point in favor of the Radagon/Giant connection is the constant emphasis on his hair (as you mention in the video).
I don’t buy Radagon wanting the Erdtree to burn - I’m in the camp of Radagon putting the thorns up to keep anyone else from usurping him and creating a new Order.
Not sure what evidence we have for Miquella using rot to become St. Trina?
When she says "You are yet to become me," I think she is worried that Radagon will take over her body entirely and Marika herself will cease to exist. That's why she shattered the Elden Ring, "Let us both be shattered."
@@CrowsofAcheron But if Radagon was already part of her, how is he not currently her?
@@soarel325 I think they are separate personalities within the same body.
@@CrowsofAcheron How did people not notice they were never in the same room at once then?
@@soarel325Given the Goldmask questline, I'm not sure many ever actually knew of Radagon's existence outside of his marriage to Renalla.
So everyone seems completely stumped on Radagon's origin stories, but I'm always like "SURELY the brick hammer's item description is referring to him, right?"
I mean, I can't be literally the only one to have read that one, but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when no-one is bringing it up.
It’s an intriguing idea; do you think there’s anything else that ties Radagon to Stormveil?
@Crunchy Nahh, certainly nothing that pops in the same way to me. I just feel that the mention of becoming a champion and the reference to giants is a dead give-away, or at least as close as one can get. One could argue that at the time (as a laborer) he was "a nobody", so nothing there would celebrate him from that era, and Godrick himself seems singularly obsessed with the Golden Lineage so he believably wouldn't put up a statue of Radagon either. Not to mention, Radagon being a worker, he would not be privy to the various storm techniques taught to soldiers. There's a weaker tie-in in the brick hammer's in that it's A HAMMER, drawing a parallel to the Radagon we face in the Erdtree; "The tool with which Queen Marika shattered the Elden Ring and Radagon attempted to repair it", as Marika's hammer's desciption says. And being a "laborer", I can totally see him being good at fixing things, even if he came up short with the Elden Ring.
I'm not sure what the rebellion part in the brick hammer's description is about, though I could see it being a coup from within when Godfrey came for the Stormlord, discovering and enlisting a young Radagon in the process (assuming the rebellion is even something referenced elsewhere).
I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch, but my impression is that Radagon IS a descendant of giants, and he hates his red hair because it marks him as such (being the Golden Order loyalist he is - he don't want anybody to burn down the tree). You could also draw a parallel between Rennala's and Radagon's romance, and the Astrologers and giants. "Considered them neighbours" the Sword of Night and Flame says, and it's kind of a stretch, but if there ever was inter-breeding between humans and giants, astrologers of old were probably the ones to do it (there's also a theory that Rennala has giant's blood in her, which could explain why it presumably manifested so strongly in Radahn).
TL;DR - Radagon was a manual worker who was physically strong and good with a hammer, was possibly discovered by Godfrey when he took Stormveil, so Radagon rose through the ranks, fought in the battle against giants and grew resentful of the people prophesized to have a part in taking down the Golden Order which gave him his new life and made his rise to greatness possible, later he led an army into Liurnia, married Rennala, and later still joined Marika because... I don't know, eugenics? That whole thing is still kind of a mystery to me.
@@Anublet90 good theory!
There is one thing I just don't buy with it comes to radagon and rennalas children, it's that they were somehow transformed into demigods when Radagon married Marika, I think it was all just a lie to cover up that they were demigods from the start
Yeah, also I think at one point Enia says the Demigods each and all are direct offsprings of Marika. Which means Ranni, Radahn and Rykard are also direct offsprings of Marika, which would imply Radagon ans Marika were already one when those children were born
The game worked really hard to prevent people putting 2 and 2 together
To me at this point it's pretty clear Radagon merged with Marika later, because originally, it's flat out told to you that Radagon came from faraway lands. He was his own person with his own body.
Since Radagon has different motivations than Marika, I think one can make a very strong case that the Greater Will summoned him before Marika to become her consort. Marika is more or less imprisoned by the Greater Will to be god-queen and lately there have been some strong theories and discoveries that point towards her trying to destroy the Golden Order and the Greater Will, things the game tells you aside (like establishing Marika knew the order was imperfect, which that alone isn't as severe as her actively attacking it).
Radagon seems to be a measurement of the Greater Will to further limit Marika, or to at least force her to side with the faith in gold. Radagon's faith holds firm and he's in direct opposition of Marika, even imprisoning her within the Erdtree, evident by his crosshatching pattern on the roots we later burn.
Her body was effectively not hers after they merged. Without analyzing much, I believe Radagon was specifically merged with Marika for the Greater Will to keep her under its control. This is further supported by the fact that Radagon rises and fights you in a crumbled form Marika can barely move in, showing he was the one in charge at least at that point in time as a half-switched vessel of the ring.
I think this brings up some interesting questions and even answers, including the Greater Will's possible inability to switch the Elden Ring's vessel, having to "alloy" it with someone who's more fit for this task, since Marika formed doubts and saw the impurities within the order and this outer god.
I don't know, I have problems. To me, the imperfections of the order are Marika and Radagon's own doing. Dig on this, Marika straight up removes a Great Rune from the Elden Ring, an action that later has incredible and varied consequences. This action leaves the natural state of death out of the established order and leaves the Elden ring incomplete. I think we can all agree that removing a rune called "Destined Death" is going to have consequences. Now, it's noteworthy that Marika removed a Great Rune. Yet, there are few who have mentioned the fact that Radagon seemingly did the same thing. Crunchy mentioned it, but what about the implications? Radagon had another *removed* Great Rune. Also, consider what the rune is. The Rune of Rebirth. Meaning that Death and Rebirth, the cycle of life itself is straight up gone from the Golden Order. I suppose they thought this would make them eternal, and it sort of did, but it ultimately led to the calamity that followed. *They* did this, not the Golden Order.
The Greater Will made the Elden Ring specifically placing those runes in it, or perhaps forming it over time (who can say), but regardless it's intention is clear. It intended for the natural cycle of life and death to be part of it's order, but Marika/Radagon did not. Removing Death/Rebirth, or rather, change seems to be their intention. They wanted their blessed order to last forever. They're Gwyn all over again, methinks. Trying to preserve their way of life only to ultimately doom it.
Goldmask had it right. The flaw in the Golden order, was the gods. Not the Greater Will. I think the Greater Will encourages the change, or at least respects it's necessity. After all, if you believe the Frenzied Flame, the Greater Will created disparity in the first place.
I'll go one step further. I think that what Radagon saw as a fundamental principle of the Golden Order is wrong. Regression is not the natural state. Or rather, I don't think the Greater Will intends it to be. All things came from the "One Great" as Hyetta (channeling the Frenzied Flame) states. Everything was one. The Greater Will changed that. It made the static, dynamic. It seems off to me that Regression would be part of it's design. Seeing as how Regression is more in line with what the frenzied flame seems to want, a return to the One Great.
"Radagon came from faraway lands" is literally false and nowhere in game
Is it possible the shattering of the Elden Ring happened much earlier than most people think? That the shattering caused Radagon to split from Marika, and Radagon’s attempt to repair the ring was an attempt to rejoin with Marika many years later? I can’t recall any evidence explicitly saying these events happened in quick succession.
It is mentioned that Marika/Radagon literally are the Elden Ring so it would make sense for them to split when the ring was split.
bend the narrative more
In my opinion radagon is a different side of marika's personality, he represents the blind faith in the golden order and the greater will within marika, that part always existed within her but didn't manifest as different personality until marika started having doubts and uncertainties about the golden order, maybe she separated that part from herself so that she can study the golden order neutrally? Radagon appeared suddenly and out of nowhere after all yet he possessed a piece of the elden ring itself was chosen to become elden lord and his children are even considered direct offsprings of marika by enia with one of them being the strongest demigod
Why would marika send her other self as an army general in a foreign country to marry another woman? For that I have no idea
I think she found out that the two fingers were seeking empyreans to replace Marika "The Eternal" and split her blind loyalty into Radagon coinciding with the supposed curse of the fell god falling on the Radagon half to cause his red hair.
Another thing that could explain Radagon's relation to Marika could be the D twins. They share the same soul across two bodies and minds.
So I feel the strongest baseline we can get is that Radagon and Marika have a "connection" at least immediately after the Liurnian Wars. Personally, I feel Radagon (as an individual or an alter-ego) was used by Marika for a sort of power play. Godfrey is presumably out of the picture at this point, having fought all foes he could be brought against and Marika now saving him for later. However Liurnia for whatever reason was considered a threat by Marika. The astrologers seem to have kept to themselves so I think you can tie this into the struggle for dominance. I find it interesting however that prior to Godfrey's banishment that Marika did not sic him onto Liurnia. Perhaps the reason is that Marika felt Godfrey couldn't be motivated for such a fight, that or also she sought some sort of benefit by establishing political ties. Maybe Marika thought there was something to gain via understanding sorcery, like there was with the induction of dragon worship in the Golden Order. I cannot say for certain it was always a big brain play by Marika to make peace with the Liurnians, but she likely did have the capability to eradicate or neutralize them with Godfrey around if she so wished. You could argue that the Liurnians were a lower priority group to target comparatively to the Fire Giants, I'll grant.
I believe Radagon at that time was operating under the direct instruction/support/control of Marika. Radagon is described by Miriel in the context of leaving Rennala and becoming Elden Lord as a "mere champion," that its bizarre that a guy like that could become the second Elden Lord. Radagon being at the head of a golden host, and bringing gifts of gold as "just" a champion seems improbable. Why would Marika direct Radagon to do this? I assume to make him a better fit as an Elden Lord so in turn she can extricate her will. In his study into sorcery and therefore academia became and likely proliferated Golden Order Fundamentalism. But like you pointed out in the video, the greatsword given to him by Rennala was twisted into the Golden Order Greatsword. A sword which interestingly has no intelligence requirement or scaling, unlike Golden Order Incantations. A parallel exists with both the Laws of Regression and Causality incantations, that only have int requirements (I don't really have a point on the incantations but did think it was worth mentioning). Radagon appears to have eschewed all he learned from Rennala. To me the synthesis of ideas seems to have failed, and echoes how Marika and Radagon were incapable of reaching agreement. (This is the leap in logic btw) Its for this reason that I feel Radagon has to be some sort of extraction or is directly Marika. I'm not sure right now if you could directly attribute Radagon/Marika to Regression/Causality but both share this dualism.
Regarding why Radagon hated his red locks and its relation to the Fire Giants: If Marika is Radagon, and Marika fought this big bloody war to try to lay the fire giants down to extinction in her efforts to destroy the Fell God, it could be surmised that Radagon's red hair simply reminded the being(s) of that war. A piece of the past that they'd rather forget, maybe, since most other wars involving the Golden Order seem to be "right" in some moral manner, whilst the war against the giants didn't have a good reason to be fought. They fought the Fire Giants because they feared the power of the Fell God as far as I can tell (the flame's power to burn the Erdtree), which is an awful past to be reminded of every time you go to look in the mirror.
Part of me wants me to think that Radagon was originally separate from Marika, but ultimately underwent a process to 'join' with her. This would have been an instrumentation of Marika herself, as it (to me) was probably an idealistic plan for removing the influence of the Greater Will. I feel that there's enough evidence to prove that Marika ultimately began despising her position as a living God of the Greater Will, and was actively working to separate herself from the entity itself. To "liberate" herself from its grasp so to speak.
Perhaps Marika HAD to be female. We know that Ranni becomes the God of Night due to the Age of Stars ending. We know that Melania becomes the God of Rot due to her encounter. I speculate that this is enough evidence to show that Outer Gods _require_ female-gendered beings to act through. We have never seen a living God in that universe that was Male. Even as far back as Placidusax, who was equivalent to an Elden Lord without the Greater Will. There seems to be a fundamental conjunction of Outer God to Living God, then Living God to Lord of the Realm.
By actually _joining_ physically with Radagon, Marika would have found some form of loophole; a mechanism that may have only bought precious little time and freedom of will that she could use to enact her own desires and fate. A loophole in the form of a breach of contract, per say, that in sharing gender with Radagon the Greater Will might not have been able to "communicate" or "control" her properly.
Note that the shattering happens after Marika joins with Radagon. Personal theory at least, someone didn't read the fine print after becoming a Living God, simple as.
Could they be twins? Would explain their afflicted offspring. Twins have a high probability of having twins.
The bald Radagon theory isn't that crazy, actually. George RR Martin has done that before in A Song of Ice and Fire. In the 3 spinoff books of Dunk and Egg, the titular Egg is called that because he shaves his head to hide his very recognizable silver hair, which betrays his lineage. Then, (spoilers maybe) in the end of The Mystery knight, he gains confidence and accepts his heritage, suggesting that he'll hide his hair no longer, but we'll have to wait until the next book to see.
(Also some believe that another character in the main series is doing the same, but that's speculation atm)
I think there's a lot here that could be taken many ways, but to me the inclusion of the golden sewing needle is curious. Why would Radagon NEED the needle? Why bring it with him even as he was married to Rennala? Same with the rune of the unborn, and to me they seem connected. We know Radagon had red hair like the rest of the giants, but what if Radagon WAS a giant? Not Just any giant, but their ruler. The flame of ruin now resides within the last giant, and we know even some trolls had to mutilate themselves to remove the influence of the Fel God; What if Radagon was not only the giant's ruler, but also the avatar of the flame of ruin. Marika may have "defeated" the head of the giants the same way Radagon "defeated" Rennala, through marriage. The flame of ruin would need removal, and we already know that flame can hold death from before the time of the erd tree due to deathbird items/spell descriptions, so it's not crazy to speculate that The Flame of Frenzy WAS their Fel God who was removed and housed within a severed finger so that giants who accepted the golden order could be welcomed into it. Here's where the Rune of the Unborn and Radagon's Golden Needle come into play, Marika "birthed" Radagon and he became her faithful hound once removed from the Fel God, but he needed a new identity AND his clothes needed to be adjusted to his new reduced size. Even after his rebirth however he could not get rid of his hair, the last shred of evidence for his former life. This would technically make him a demigod despite what he may have been due to being reborn into a form closer to mortal.
Lots of rampant speculation in this but I think it fits, at least somewhat. Perhaps the Fel God did curse Marika, and the red hair not being removed from Radagon was the first sign that those born from her would be cursed. Love the speculation in this video, thanks for putting it together!
All the Celestial Dew in the game is found either underground, or places somehow associated with the Nox. Except one, which is in Raya Lucaria, near the gates (where you get ambushed by a Bloodhound). We know the Liurnians are associated with the Nox - it's where they learned Astrology. Could it be that attacking Liurnia was a way to require forgiveness, and thus ask them to supply the dew that only they had access to? A ruse, all to get the dew, and complete the Radagon mimic
That branch thing the bald monk is holding looks a lot like the Death Rite swords that are associated with the Death Birds - a weapon used by some priests that made a pact with the death birds to find an unusual kind of rebirth.
They're twins.
Emperyeons are born from one being.
Incest is a common theme of Martin's stories.
Twins would make the most sense given all of the evidence. 1 soul but 2 bodies.
It lines up with Martin's targaryens and Lannister twins being incestuous. Twins usually end up having twins/triplets and pass that trait on to their kids. Melina and miquella and ranni are emperyeons.
I have more notes if you're interested
In my opinion, main problem of elden ring is that there is too much dmg. Im not talking only about enemies but player char as well. Everything dies so quickly. I've finished the game multiple times got all the achivements and i still dont know most enemies and bosses move sets because either i ik them or they ik me.
17:11 maybe it was Marika who was beguiled by the flame? And she had to separate this red-haired, blasphemous part of her to literally keep up appearances, resulting in Radagon. But she kept those heretical believes, while Radagon became the embodiment of order and loyalty to the greater will. If we believe that the events that lead to the fall of the greater will were all part of Marika's master plan, then her looking into the giant's flame could mark the beginning of all that.
not sure if this is relevant but during his boss fight Radagon seems to be either resistant or immune to all forms of damage EXCEPT Fire type damage
maybe I'm reaching but it's interesting
nonetheless
What if the Elden Beast was sent by the Greater Will to put Marika in check, and Radagon is the mortal incarnation of the Elden Beast.
15:18 I don’t think the Radagon icon depicting Radagon with pure white skin should be taken into account since the Godfrey icon depicts Godfrey with white skin as well which he clearly does not have, this gives the idea that the pale skin on the icons is just an artistic choice.
I see crunchy, I like the video. Simple.
You and Zullie are the only two creators i have my notifications turned on for. Some of the most insightful content about these games for sure!
I'm wondering if the bald guy was Radagon prior to the war with the Fire Giants and there is some sort of connection with their defeat and him gaining his red hair as well as becoming Marikas consort. I don't know what that connection would be but I wouldn't be surprised if it was either a curse or a contract between the Fell God and Marika. I also could see how this could have made him spiteful and set the plans in motion to burn the tree if he had a different life before the curse/contract was made that he was torn away from because of Marika. I'm now wondering if 99% of this game is Marikas machinations being played out and Radagon was just an unwilling pawn forced into his roll, which might help explain why he isn't immediately hostile to you when you fight him but it doesn't explain why he was so devoted to the golden order. To bad we can't talk to him before he becomes a sword to get some of this cleared up lol.
except radagon tried to fix the fking ring so this is bonkers
@@mynameismice your point is? Variations of the Elden Ring have existed long before Marika, she is the one who shattered it, and if he led a saintly life that got him statues all over the place id assume he was ok with the way things were. She is the one who destroyed order and I don't know if you could tell or not but Radagon was pretty into the golden order who was trying to maintain the status quo.
there is also a time traveling theory to explain it, that Radagon is in place of Marika in the future, but since Marika holds back time and keeps it in infinite stagnation, the two things starts to overlap and they are both at the same place ( by same place I mean they are inside the erdtree, being the vessel for the elden ring ) - so from Marika's perspective, time stopped and she holds it in an eternal, stagnating loop, while on the outside, Radagon wants to replace her and some sort of time overlap happens when Marika turns into Radagon, maybe the player breaks the frozen time when they enter the erdtree
and also maybe that was Marika's plan to happen and free herself, hence why she encourages Radagon to become her when she talks to him
If you make non-Elden Ring videos, it would be cool to hear you talk about irl mythology. It was neat learning about Loki/Fenrir etc. in this video. Also, if Radagon hated his hair so much, he could always just cut it off - becoming the bald statue depiction later in life. Eventually he would grow it back while stuck inside the Erdtree.
maybe radagon is an anagram of 'a dragon', so merika made a deal with the old dragons (former eldenlords) to become a partial dragon, or maybe she always was part-dragon and through some ritual or something the dragon part and the god part split...
See my immediate impression was a jekyll and Hyde situation. Radagon is like an aspect of Marika that grew in strength and dominance over time. I think he's a curse, either by the crucible, an outer god, or a result of her ties to the golden order, like a robotic and more straightforward and loyal servant to the golden order. Originally an alter ego, as he grew she weakened and this was her most major falling out with the golden order. She would eventually be erased and only Radagon would be left, but without her he'd have no will and no personality. And that's what we see, this machine monster in the final fight, a calculating and mindless slave to the elden beast. This was why Marika shattered the elden ring and plotted to have the order destroyed even after hope was lost for herself.
I liked SmoughTown's theory that at the point of Marika's ascension to godhood, which may have happened upon the defeat of the fire giants, that the greater will may have 'placed' the Radagon personality within her, as a kind of fail safe or contingency plan, as it may have already sensed that Marika was beginning to stray from its vision
I agree, this makes the most sense considering everything we know.
The biggest and most glaring problem with the assertion that Radagon was always someone else is 1) we know of in game, Marika is absolutely nowhere in sight during the battle with the Carians, despite being the one to personally put the Giants to the sword, we know she is capable in battle and has been involved in battles in the past, and this "Champion" emerges out of nowhere, and she is just gone the whole time (also in order to become a champion you have to have had done some sort of previous deed of heroism, but that is NEVER mentioned. Instead Radagon seems to just inherently be a "Champion" which to me, means a Champion of the Greater a Will and Golden Order itself, his very being coming into existence a triumph for the Greater Will, especially knowing now how dedicated he is to it)
and 2) A warrior, no matter how great would never have access to something as Divine and with so many implications of rebirth as the Amber Egg, let alone the rune that goes with it. The whole POINT of the Elden Ring is to control life. There is just no way around the fact that that kind of power is reserved for Godhood. In fact, Tarnished Archeologist goes into great detail how amber specifically is related to all life in the Lands Between, the Amber Medallions and the Amber drops that were once in the Erdtree. There is definitely some spooky stuff going on that this channel mentions in another video about how things you defeat are then able to be accessed for "absorption", like the theory that Melina is a combo of Marika and The Gloam Eyed Queen after Marila defeated the Gloam Eyed Queen. There is definitely something spooky going on with the concept of blending of life that comes up time and time again.
How about this for evidence of Radagon being part Fire Giant? His son, Radahn? IS HUGE. Rykard and Ranni seemed to take on their mother’s side, but not Radahn, who inherited more of Radagon’s traits. Even if Radagon himself is not massive in frame, if he is part fire giant, then he could have passed down the more dominant genes of his bloodline to his children, like Radahn, but still be more likely to father stunted children more akin to himself, like Ranni and Rykard.
Also, all of his kids have red hair.
I think the two Ds deserve to be metnioned when it comes to Radagon . They are golden order fundamentalists because only the golden order accepted their condition of being 2 bodies sharing a sould whereas Marika and Radagon seem to be 2 souls sharing the same body. Also it seems that of all the Empyrians in the game only Ranni is capable of becoming a god since Miquella and Malenia are deformed, which to me seems that if Marika was trying to produce an empyrian she might have chosen Rennala as a potential mother after Marika's children started getting born cursed by an outer god (mohg/morgott) and even with Radagon (Malenia is cursed by the god of rot) . Great video btw.
Miquella and Malenia are both capable of becoming Gods and they were chosen by the two fingers to accomplish this, deducted by the title of Empyrean. On top of this, the little white ball enemies with the trumpets appear on the Haligtree, which is further confirmation they are valid candidates of becoming the next gods of the lands between.
Malenia nearly turned into a god during her boss fight as well, that of scarlet rot, and Miquella nearly turned into a new outer god, or at the very least, plain god. If not for Mohg's kidnapping, his Haligtree could've killed off the Erdtree and he would've broken free of his curse, even if he failed in completely curing his sister.
@@anecro but out of the three, only ranni has an actual chance of succeeding in game.
I feel the biggest tell in Radagon’s origins is the way his sun turned out size wise. Furthermore I believe Radagon to possible have been the leader or instigator of the trolls betrayal of the giants during the war. Also we know that giants are the originators of smithing and anyone can break something, but only a smith can fix it again and of the two Radagon is the force that tries to repair the ELDEN ring(being a born blacksmith), more evidence to his Giant roots and I could be wrong as I haven’t looked closely at the hues of his Incantations but I feel they carry a red fiery hue to them that isn’t present in other order inactions!
Also in regards to the red haired misbegotten, I believe they was Radagons own version of a shadow wolf and the giant red ones are either the perfected version or a pre transformation version of the red haired misbegotten, as those two creatures are the only mention of Radagon owning/creating somethinf(apart from his kids obviously)
You flashed like a "who is this" on that bald statue in a previous video and I haven't stopped thinking about him. (Also, unrelated, haven't stopped thinking about the statue in both the Siofra river and the Ainsel river, where it has its fingers chopped off.)
Who is he? He's obviously meant to be noticed by the player, as he's placed in such prominent locations (RTH, beside Rogier in the Stormveil church, in the Stormveil throne room). My first playthrough, in my little journal, I wrote a note on him down because I thought he was so obviously central to the storyline. Point is: it really feels like From wants us to think about this guy.
It has to be someone important enough to have a shit ton of statues commissioned. It's also someone heavily linked with the Golden Order, so recent-ish in the timeline (or at least someone not associated with Farum Azula).
There's weirdly not many bald people in Elden Ring. Patches, and that's kind of it. (Someone will let me know if I'm forgetting someone, I'm sure.) So it's likely that it's someone the player doesn't meet (unless, like you suggest, it is Radagon and the red hair is a sort of curse bestowed on him something something fire giant). Even the Onyx and Alabaster Lords have hair, as does de-horned Morgott. I *think* Rykard has hair in the intro cinematic, but it's a moot point because presumably statues of Rykard would be torn down in the RTH. Rennala is bald underneath her hat but we can safely assume that's for hair-clipping-through-hat reasons. Gideon has hair under that helmet (and it appears intentional).
So, it's a named character the player doesn't meet who has ties to the Golden Order. This person was literally worshipped in a Golden Order church in Stormveil, presumably as a god or some kind of prophet. Who are the candidates?
(1) A character we will learn about or meet in the DLC (sort of similar to a Lady Maria situation where this character is central to the game's storyline).
(2) One of the many soulless demigods strewn throughout the Lands Between in the mausoleums. (Again though, weird to have him be so centrally placed!)
(3) Miquella before he turned against the Golden Order? No, this statue is obviously old. (Though, there is a resemblance to Miquella's corpse in the egg, but I think we should take very little from the parts of that corpse we can't see in game.)
(4) Whoever Miranda is? This is... interesting, given (a) this bald dude likes flowers and (b) the perfumers and those associated with Miranda flowers have a strong association with Leyndell and thus the Golden Order. Maybe Miranda transformed into a flower, and the statue of him emerging from a flower is *actually* a flower coming up to consume (and become) him.
(5) The noble Goldmask before he shriveled up? Corhyn says he was a great scholar, but it's not clear if he became a scholar pre- or post-banishment. Perhaps Goldmask was banished along with Godfrey, and Goldmask was a part of Marika's grand plan somehow.
(6) All of the statues have lines on their faces that seem to imply capital-r Rot, and as you mention the flowers sort of look like Caelid flowers. No fucking idea what that means. He's not Gowry, and he's presumably not a sorcerer given his obvious ties to the Golden Order. What else is there in post-rot Caelid? Not much.
(7) I don't know, man. The narrator in the intro and outro cinematics?
Of these, I could be swayed by him being Miranda. But, ultimately I think I'm partial to your unhinged Radagon theory because this statue is just *everywhere* and this man is worshipped in Stormveil, and it would be blasphemous to worship anyone else. But then--is Radagon's thing where at first he didn't have hair and then he did public knowledge? That seems extremely weird. Radagon also is a "leal hound" and this dude just doesn't look like a "leal hound."
I don't know. There's a lot of stuff in Elden Ring where the pieces just don't fit together. I wrote all this out hoping to find some answers along the way and I just didn't, haha
FYI, Thops is also bald, but he has a beard. Very interesting about Miranda, I had not considered that. A cut item mentions the “Flower Crucible” in relation to Miranda, so it’s possible all the Miranda stuff originally had a bigger part to play.
@@CrunchyVideos Not only he has bald but he is Raya Lucaria student so it doesn't have sense the statue to be him, he doesn't seems to be well known.
It is Miquella, which is why he is bald and has a flower the same color of Miquella’s Lily. The tree besides him is of varying sizes because it is documenting Miquella’s progress growing the Haligtree from his own blood. How he is old I don’t know, exactly.
We know St. Trina is the feminine aspect of Miquella, and the St. Trina’s Torch item reads that it “depicts St. Trina, but in adult form, somewhat unnervingly.”
Perhaps these statues are equivalent adult form depictions of Miquella. Idols of what he will be rather than what once was. No coincidence, then, that we see them on our path to usurp the existing order, and that he is the only demigod remaining once we’ve laid waste to the Lands Between.
Still finding Elden Ring channels that I all subscribe to so I can see what other people think about the game, just found yours and very new channel only a month old, Elden Ring is your base can’t wait for more theory’s :)
I was always confused to how Radagon was so loyal to the Golden Order but gave it up to marry Rennala, only to go back to the Golden Order. It makes me feel that he might of not had an entirely free will. No matter what I hear about him there is always something in game that contradicts it.
I have to agree. Radagon seems to be getting pulled left and right in everything that relates to him. Whether he was always a part of Marika or joined her later, I think it's clear he was never truly "himself". Though he tried to be.
Marika says it herself. He's yet to become her, nothing more than a loyal dog. He also strives to become complete. Radagon knows he's a pawn and tries to better himself when with Renalla but is compelled to return to what he knows. Dude is a pawn of the Greater Will(and Marika?).
Ironic considering his devotion to the Golden Order. I think it's a great allegory for those IRL who attach themselves so tightly to any one belief all the while robbing themselves of living more complete lives. They simply become husks(or vessels) for a single idea.
Marika represents the opposite end. Those who would burn it all down, for themselves and others, in a pursuit for freedom and understanding.
Sorry for the book lol...
I personally like the "twin soul" theory.
The D brothers, were of two bodies and two minds, but one soul. Even though they should have been banished or killed for their blasphemous existence, Marika let him into the order.
Or at least, that's what I somewhat remember from the twinned armor-set.
So the theory goes that Radagon and Marika were of twin souls, but seperate bodies and minds. Though they had their separate lives, at one point Marika called Radagon to be "conjoined" in a single body. Yet, the "single mind" part seems to have failed.
Btw, I loved that bit about Radagon's thorns sealing the erdtree. In a sense, it's a self fulfilling prophecy. If you shatter the elden ring, and command the demigods to mend it, yet you seal the door to reach it, then it kinda seems like a very convuluted plan for burning the erdtree.
If Radagon was somehow related to fire giants, or monks, this would perfectly align with thise goals.
Looking forward to your next videos ;) it would be nice to see one pointing out the catholic themes too and one on the workings of the golden order and the foundamebtalists as people usually just think of them as villains, but we see from D's quest and from one of the bows that they sincerely wish to understand the world and help others through understanding. Incidentally, it seems that everything went downhill when the order abandoned this tenant in favor of bigotry and elitism.
There's a few critiques I can level at the game (this is in regards to your question at the end of the video) but only a couple that really bother me. 1. The Dogs. Not their move set, per se. It's just that they resemble an AI toddler's bad misunderstanding of what a dog is. they, in now way, resemble or behave like dogs. yet, the wolves are basically perfect. not cool. 2. the Rune bear. 'nuff said.
Edit: no. not enough said. The damn rune bear is a crap enemy. Dodge: ineffective. Block: ineffective. Ranged: ineffective. Git gud: ineffective. Their nearly impossible to dodge attacks, the grab attacks, and they're stupid relentless attack chains make them a worthless enemy with bad AI. In short, they're artificial difficulty. they were made hard for the sake of being hard, not because it makes sense for they're place in the wider world. Also, they're aesthetically bad. They hardly look like bears. They look like werebears from a bad WoW knockoff. Lame. Honestly, they strike me as a rejected enemy from sekiro. they would have been a fairly difficult but doable challenge in sekiro, so long as you have the deflect timing down. And their design would've made a certain mechanical sense in that game. basically discouraging you from dodging or or blocking, forcing you to get the parry down. They also probably would've worked fine in Bloodborne, but they don't work in Elden ring, which isn't as smooth or fast as either game mentioned. I honestly think that the rune bear is a bit of legacy text, so to speak, of an earlier design of the combat system and they didn't bother to change them. alright, I'm done now. Rant over.
I realize I’m commenting on a much older video here but I was excited to hear someone else say that they think there is some kind of cover up taking place at the conclusion of the war with the Fire Giants. I’ve been thinking that it may have something to do with the Kindling Maiden who was kept secret either before/during the war, or came into being at its conclusion and was then kept secret to fulfill the prophecy, or break free from GW influence, or simply reenact the natural cycle of life that was halted until “nature found a way” to go all Jurassic Park here.
I “suspect” that she Gloam-Eyed Queen might also be involved, regardless of whether she is Melina, Marika, or both, or neither. The location of the godskin swaddling cloth in those mountain tops near the first church of Marika seems to allude to the GEQ either hiding out in that cave biding her time, or something of the like, and perhaps near that spot is where the Gloam Eyed Queen was defeated by her Bale of Shadows and became Marika, hence the First Chruch of Marika. I suppose that just by virtue of being victorious it would make sense to commemorate a church and the new age as well.
Where Radagon comes in? Not sure but this video does make me ponder the implications. I find it intriguing that Marika has one really short braid as though it were cut off. Was it used in a ritual?
Getting wildly speculative here and possibly contradicting other established lore, but perhaps Marika/GEQ/Fell God/Mother of Truth are all allusions to the God of the Erdtree, now known as Marika, trying to reestablish autonomy from the GW; Gaia, or the anima, or the Empress, the Soul, too long ignored in favor of order and civilization.
Thank you for this thought provoking video.
I paused this video to leave a comment like Xryeau, but I see I was beat to the punch about a month ago. ^^; also however to add in favor of Radagon's connection to the Giants, his son Radhan is quite literally a Giant. Larger than the Trolls that are also giants who were allowed to wander the Lands after the defeat of the GIANT Giants. Fire Monks who might just be short Giants, Radagon may have been akin to most directly, and similarly following the Loki connection and the Alchemic connection in relation to a crucible and a rebus, if that particularly theory holds deeper merit. Knowing GRRM, Monks were probably incapable of producing offspring so they were allowed to stick around as long as the lie that their god was dead persisted. Radagon was also known to get around, all the Misbegotten are his children or of relation to him, but they're not Demigods. We see the corpses of many Demigods around the game, the unnamed ones in all the walking cathedrals, and Morgot and Ranni's body. I dunno. It is all confusing, and upon finishing the video I think there even might be merit to the Bald Monk theory.. maybe he started off studying Fire in the time of the Crucible and Godric, then upon the defeat of the Giants became a Golden Order Fundamentalist and shaved his head. As is seen in the statues, it's almost as if the trees there are slowly consuming him.. which could signify an extremely deep committal to the Greater Will and the Elden Beast, enough so to be chosen not by Marika but by the Elden Beast as the next Elden Lord. The more I think about it as that, the more it seems appropriate he is the penultimate boss. I think it's his greed/hunger for power, and lack of either Numen sensibilities is what drives a lot of the game, as we can see it's his Rune that keeps things locked.. Marika was ready for it to be over long ago, but it's Radagon, a Sword for the Elden Beast commanding a Great Rune, that stands in the way of you and nature.
what if Queen Marika fought the Fell God, and it cursed her, causing her to take on aspects of itself and its followers, and Marika excised that part of herself, which became Radagon...theories 2 and 3--the most thematically fitting theories--wrapped up in one
Consider the possibility that Radagon is based on the "shards of manus" from Dark Souls such as Nashandra. They were women who specifically sought out men who were Lords of Cinder/Sunlight in order to corrupt them. This time around it is gender swapped, with Radagon being a "fragment of the fell god" who marries Marika with the goal of corrupting her intentions simply as revenge for her destroying the giants. This would explain why Radagon dorectly opposes Marikas actions, teying to repair what she wishes to destroy.
Another great video.
I personally always wondered if there was a connection between Marika and Radagon, and D, Hunter of the Dead, and D Beholder of Death. That whole Two but One thing, ya know?
Could Radagon be a Marika respec? That's why radagon had the egg and why radagon just appears. Clearly they end up as two entities in one body. Did Marika become Radagon? Was Radagon separate, then absorbed Marika when she shattered herself? If they were separate, was he some guy or did Marika create him, like Melina?
I think the think with Empyreans is more simple than genetics and natural philosophy: it's politics. Empyrean is not a race, it's a nobility title. Ranni and siblings were not Empyreans when they were born, but they because Empyreans when their daddy acquired a nobility title, after marrying Marika.
Celestial Dew: Radagon is gold and sun, Rennala is silver and moon. He had to reverse antagonism in order to marry her.
I didn't notice until you mentioned the statues of the old man, how the larger statues seem to depict him standing within a tree-like structure in bloom, very much like the underground dwellers worshipping the Ancestral Spirit, which strictly goes against the doctrine of the Golden Order. Oh, and, real short... the only bad thing I have to say about Elden Ring is that the "difficulty" spike going from Leyndell to the Mountops of Giants is.. horribly scuffed. I just can't imagine a reason for enemies to be so ballbustingly hard there, even at higher levels. Insanely tanky and also dealing ridiculous amounts of damage. Anytime I beat Morgott at the foot of the Erdtree and proceed towards the mountains are the times I realize that my enthusiasm for the game starts fading, and I begin taking more and more breaks between play sessions. Just thinking about the mountaintops makes it difficult for me to want to keep playing.
I firmly believe the always was marika theory although I like your homonculos theory.
Here is a wild theory but what if Radagon spawned from Marika after she defeated the Fire Giants. Now, why would the last of the Fire Giants serve a the protector of the one thing that could end the Age of the Erdtree? Let's say that when Marika stoke down the Fell God she took the Fell God's power into herself. Basiclly turning the Fire Giant's God into a hostage. After some time maybe Marika couldn't hold in all of the Fell God's power and some of it and along with some of the Fire Gaint's physical characteristics were separated from her, Radagon. Then, when Radagon was removed from Marika he took with him her loyalty to the Greater Well, which lead her to eventually shatter the Elden Ring. It might even be that when he was divided from Marika, like a new born, he didn't have his trademark red hair and was bald for sometime, thus making him the bald monk in his youth.
I think depicting someone emerging from a tree it's just a Golden Order's custom that may be only reserved for very important people. Thus the bald monk might be just one of the many misteruous characters who helped build the fundamentalism of the Order.
In my Simple mind I can say that Radagon and Marika were different people but as Marika Shattered the Elden Ring and Radagon tried to repair it yet Failed the Greater Will or Elden Beast Cursed them to become one and both will be Suffering from there Crucification like Chamber within the Erd Tree.
Since Maliketh has a unique connection to Marika as her shadow, should that connection also carry to Radagon? As far as I remember, Maliketh and Radagon are never mentioned in relation to each other. Curious if there’s anything interesting down that road
I don't think so, and if anything this shows that Radagon was independent at some point before Liurnia's wars at the very least. Maliketh himself as far as I can tell was only bound to Marika and didn't care much about Radagon or Godfrey.
I think radagon lusted for Queen Marika's power over the elden ring. It wasn't enough being elden Lord. That's why Marika shattered the elden ring. She didn't want a tyrant taking control over that much power. Radagon wanted to become like Marika in godhood
What if Radagon is a construct, but he succeeded where the silver tears failed not simply because he was made of gold, but because he was made in the giant’s forge. Perhaps, in exchange for leaving the fell god alive within the last fire giant, Marika had the fell god make Radagon in the forge. This could explain the red hair and how radagon is related to the fire giants, as well as why he doesn’t like his red hair. Maybe because marika anticipated that she would need to do away with godfrey, and wanted an absolutely loyal lord without his own ambitions aside from pursuing the interests of the golden order. Of course, as we see, they grow apart as marika begins having doubts of the golden order. I’d imagine that Marika and Radagon were then conjoined after marika shattered the elden ring and radagon failed to repair it, which was an attempt by the golden order to keep marika in check. It’s possible that it was radagon who was even making the rune arc crucifying marika in the first place.
I thought "That was a curse of THEIR kind." was very deliberate to lead the reader into thinking Radagon was a giant. Lookj at the first sentence. "Every giant has red hair AND Radagon despised his own red hair." Occam's Razor suggests the least assumption is that Radagon is a giant.
Also if Marika and Radagon were always One then how would have they been Breed to Give Birth to Twin Empyreans Miquella and Malenia?
Maybe Marika and Radagon are like D, one soul two bodies.
Which would be why the Golden Order was one of the only organizations that didnt see the brothers as accursed beings.
Man, the red hair braids item I found..
Made me sooo crazy... Thinking the curse of red hair that fell upon Marika after defeating the giants is the reason she made this "other self" to distance herself from it. And that's the reason why he hates it...
What if , it was queen marika came as radagon to learn Magic and cripple and carina empire, and then just left!! Thinking it was radagon! Lol excuse the spelling !
one thing to note with the divinity of man itself is Adem was whole as a hermaphrodic being but because he longed for accompaniment God took from him a part and made Eve. And thus man must cleave together with woman to be a whole entity. Miyazaki and Martin could have thought of this knowing their mindsets.
If Radagon was always Marika, then perhaps Marika deliberately had an affair in the form of Radagon with Renala in order to break her heart and create the animosity in Ranni that would later cause Ranni to resist the Order. Marika seems to want to induce strife in people, so they would resist the order and change it in any way they see fit. Using the form of Radagon this way is just another way of doing so. Also, the way Marika may have been able to do this at all is because Marika is a mimic. That's her connection to the Numen.
I always thought the Marika/Radagon schism was like a split personality situation. They are different people with different motivations, but they occupy the same body.
The bedchamber conversation, I always thought, was about Marika being worried that Radagon would take over entirely. This is one reason why she shattered the Elden Ring, to prevent being wiped out of existence.
I think Marika was supposed to be a figurehead, a vessel of the Elden Ring. But when she began to assert her own will, the Elden Beast/Greater Will attempted to take back control by manifesting Radagon. So Radagon wasn't around until Marika began to have doubts and reconsider her role.
Crazy idea: what if when Marika said, "let us be shattered together" she meant it because she is cursed with the Elden Beast and Radagon is cursed with the Fell God?
I’m so glad you are making these types of videos!
Here's fuel for the fire that is the ErdTree Mushroom theory is the ErdLeaf flowers. At the start of the game we see the Erd Leaves falling, but leaves don't make flowers irl. Mushrooms however use spores to spread, so what if these ErdLeaf Flowers we find are just spore grown mushrooms?
I agree that radagon has some clear connections to the fire giants, while it's not clear how I believe he was somehow a product of their defeat and assimilation by the golden order. Over and over it's shown that the golden order and the greater will are willing to adapt and assimilate new things to further it's own power and influence, radagon even participates in this cycle with his marriage to rennala. As Marika begins souring towards the greater will and plots to undermine it I believe the greater will combines radagon and marika into a single being as a form of control. Radagon is described as a zeal hound of the golden order, I'm sure combining marika and radagon was an attempt to quell her rebellious plans with his relentless loyalty.
I think that it´s important to consider Radagon´s motivations in order to understand him. We know from many sources that Marika grew cold to the golden order, being potentially involved with the night of black knives, telling Melina that her purpose was to burn the Erdtree, taunting Radagon as a hound of the golden order and ultimately shattering the elden ring. Since Marika´s shadow was occupied with guarding the rune of death the golden order might have felt the need to keep Marika in check so that she doesn´t do anything too reckless to oppose it. Another thought that occured to me was that the Liurnian war´s outcome might have been orchestrated by the golden order all along. If the Order sensed that Rennala´s night and connection to the stars might be a worthy opponent, it could´ve sought to neutralize the threat by taking advantage of her one weakness: her emotions. So the order made Marika disguise as a man with red hair, ordered him become a devout disciple and made him carry out a romantic cleansing ceremony that weakened the heart of the moon queen. Now that they´re in love, Renalla is emotionally unable to completely oppose the golden order since it´s exactly what her husband stands for. After years of charade, Marika´s alter ego could´ve manifested to be it´s own personality inside of her. It´s only after Ranni was born and Radagon fled to the capital that Marika could´ve reconnected with her actual self, her contempt for the order. That´s why Radagon never became her. Because her feelings and her powers are hers alone, no matter how long he dwells inside her body.
As for his connection with the giants: I think this might be but a cruel taunt of the order. The golden order acts as a parasite and so it poses at what it defeats. The order was first known to be present as the ruling religion of Azula and it made a dragon its Elden Lord. The numen race of the eternal cities got defeated by the golden order and Marika, a numen, becomes its god. The Fire Giants get defeated and so the golden order incorporates their appearance and strength by making a new figure in the order look like one. The order overtakes the Carians and their wizard academy and the firstborn of a golden order union aka of the empyrians gets born as a witch (Ranni). Seems like a reoccuring theme to me.
I believe that Marika split off half of her soul, that half-soul divided from her like a cell and became Radagon.
An anagram of Radagon is.. Dragon. Maybe like Lanseax he was originally a dragon who transformed into human.
Theory: Radagon is originally the laborer who became a rebel who became a champion from the Brick Hammer description. As a servant class person he may very well have been misbegotten (cementing his connection to the other misbegotten, particularly the lions) originally, or a troll (cementing his connection to the giants) and transformed himself through the rune of rebirth and the egg, possibly as a reward from Marika (mirroring Boc's story and relationship with the PC.) The descriptions marked use of the word champion immediately brings Radagon to mind and the additional comment about it needing giant's strength to wield could be a hint as well, as Radagon is connected to the giants in various other ways.
I talked about this in my Crucible video!
@@CrunchyVideos I'll check it out!
Make the Lands Between Radagon! Alternatively, Make Marika Radagon!
That monk is now Hewg and his body is the homoculous that Marika created, and split her essence into..
Radagon IS Marika! It's obvious bro. The video could have been 3 seconds.
I got flashbacks almost instantly after the skyrim world music was playing
Yeah and the bolm munk statue. I'm clueless, but the branch he is holding sort of resembles the deathbirds symbol and connection to destined death?
There is the cut quest of Assimi, where she later tells us that she wished that we would become Elden Lord and she "souvereign eternal". Also Asimi needs us to drink from two sources one filled with golden magic and the other with star magic, to become a perfect whole. Kinda like Radagon who studied the stars and the Golden Order as well. Also the Mimic Tears enemys are called "Marikaslimelegacy" in game. So what im assuming is that either Radagon or even Marika herself are mimic tears that later on merged fully with their original copy.
The erd tree was grafted onto the stump of the great tree. This IS the crucible. The reason the omen are despised is because they prove the erdtree is failing and the rootstock is trying to take back over and creates them. The statues in leyndell show the competition the erd tree had and the later ones show it as the winner. A single golden flower that would eventually become the giant golden tree.
Conclusion: Marika has dissociative identity disorder and the space slug raised this to the tenth power.
As of today I am 634 hours in Elden Ring. It's a fantastic game. There are so many aspects of the game that I like better than previous FromSoft titles. But there are also plenty of aspects of their previous works that I like better than Elden Ring. Even Dark Souls II!
But from a lore and story prospective...
Elden Ring makes no damn sense.
You can read and re-read dialogue and item descriptions until you are blue in the face. And all the questions you have will only lead to and be met with even more questions.
The released version of the game just doesn't contain enough actual information to answer so many questions we have.
Whether this is due to cut content, because there is ALOT of cut content, even from the network test, which was only a couple months before release. Or due to planned expansion with DLC or even sequels. FromSoftware KNEW this was going to be a smash hit due to how much it was anticipated and how well the announcement and reveal trailers were received. I don't know.
What I do know is we are at the point where we are just speculating on our own speculation.
Let's go back to Dark Souls. Do you remember how many YEARS Solaire was the son of Gywn? We are only 6 months into Elden Ring. All I know, is I don't know.
Marika is a god. Gods exist beyond mortal understandings. In multiple religions across the world gods are multiple beings and yet still One at the same time. In ancient mythologies gods would turn themselves into different beings to test the hearts of men and for their own reasons beyond comprehension too.
That is my take on Marika & Radagon without using the story or the lore. Because if you do, you just end up with more questions.
Didn't mean this to be so long. Elden Ring is a phenomenal game! But my favorite FromSoft game goes to Sekiro. Why? Two reasons.
1. Makes sense.
2. Pause button.
Even after so many years deep in DS lore, I still don't understand why anyone ever thought Solaire was a god.
It is explained that Outer Gods come from the outer space they send their vassals that can be anything to control aspects of the Ring, if it comes down to Marika, Marika is some sort of mortal god choosen by the OUTER Gods that is affected by the laws of the Elden ring.
Ranni's Questline explains much more, she was the one who was chosen by the Greater Will to replace Marika, she explains this in detail.
Elden Ring itself does not present you with all of the information necessary to put together the story or lore, instead it relies on such things called allusions and allegory.
Marika, for example, is not simply the character “Marika”. Marika as a character represents the chemical Mercury (Hg). We can deduce this from the lore somewhat but what makes it clear is when you look at the Elden Ring source material, REAL WORLD alchemical spirituality. Marika is inspired by the white queen of alchemy, who is inspired by the Roman goddess Diana. They are both association in those religions with the chemical mercury.
You need to have already known about the concepts of the white queen / red king from alchemy to make that connection, so I don’t blame you for missing it. The game won’t make that connection for you, but its there and intentionally. Similarly, you need to have already known about the religious concept of the Divine Hermaphrodite to make the connection that the character of Marika / Radagon is based on that. The fact that the God of this world is a hermaphrodite is not a coincidence, and is a reference to a historical theory which posits that cultures within empires in decline tend to worship hermaphroditic entities.
Back to mercury, though. Mercury is interesting in that it literally poison trees and kills them slowly from the inside. Thus, we can interpret Marika’s plot to kill the Erdtree as a sort of mythologization of that real world bio-chemical process. Mercury, within those previously mentioned religions, is also associated with womanhood, the cold, the moon and witchcraft. Those who worshipped Diana were often persecuted women, so they turned to occultism and conspiracy. Thus, we can ALSO interpret Marika’s plot to undermine the Erdtree and the Golden Order to the real world history of occult women plotting to undermine patriarchal religious society.
I could go on and on like this forever. We have only covered one single character and not even nearly in her entirety. The story and world is incredibly rich with interesting social, historical, religious and even scientific commentary. You need to know how to find it and be willing to learn a thing or two about the real world and the sciences / history / religion, but it’s very satisfying to piece together.
@@davidgomez3044 Quite the contrary. Elden Ring, just like all the other Souls games, presents you with exactly enough information to piece together everything.
@@Nerazmus Did you read my comment in its entirety? There are many connections which are impossible to make without pre-existing education of European history, alchemical mythology or the bio-chemistry of metals in forests. You can piece together “the plot” fine enough, but you can’t understand the allegories and thematic commentary.
Convinced the statue is Radagon. If he was born from the branches he may not have had it at "birth" or he shaved it to go to war or the celestial dew cleansed him and the hair. Really want to know more about the fire giant god