catlover12670 you know I wish I could erase all of my knowledge of Buffy and Angel so I could rewatch it again for the first time if you are reading this and you have not seen Buffy or angel I envy you so much you're in for an awesome emotional rollercoaster of Awesome
Not to take it too far, but does anyone see similarities between Angel, and the earlier series Forever Knight? Both shows feature vampires trying to make up for their past by fighting crime or evil. In Forever Knight, the vampire is a police detective, in Angel, a private investigator. Both men have vampires from their pasts who they were once companions or friends with, but with whom they have a strained relationship with now. Forever Knight seemed more like a standard police drama with a vampire thrown in, where as Angel is set in a more supernatural world. Of the two shows I probably would say I like Angel better, since it was an extension of the Buffy world.
I have been planning a Buffy marathon to watch all seven seasons. I realized it would be an opportunity to watch the Angel series as well, integrating the Angel episodes in with the Buffy episodes that are cross over stories, or where events in one show have a concurrent effect int the other. That said, I would welcome any suggestions as to in what order to watch both shows together, so as to get the whole Buffy/Angel experience.
I loved Lorne, a character that began as a fun loving pacifist demon...and ended as a broken shell of his former self after taking a life. Every character went through changes in the series, but because he was my favourite character, for me, Lorne's was most heartbreaking.
His final scene is, probably, one of the most heart-rending scenes in all of television. A moment which, even to this day, I cannot get through without bawling my eyes out. As far as character development, few characters in the Buffy/Angelverse, save, maybe, Faith (and Willow, too), had such an amazing arc.
You forgot the most important point. The question that looms over the fifth season and regards to the underlying themes of the duality between the main two characters. The study of primal force in comparison to the evolved stance of all mankind. The question whether it's best to just go with it, independent, or to band together, even when there is so much more to lose that way. Whether there is selfishness in unity and selflessness in the lack of it. The threads that tie in one of the saddest moments of the season. The age old question that even left the entire fanbase divided. -- -- -- -- Who would win in a fight, cavemen or astronauts?
+Veikko Elo Cavemen would win of course. As soon as they mangle your equipment from the Astronauts uniform and break through the glass. Bye Bye Astronauts.
+Mu Lyo Astronauts are often trained military personnel. I'll put any martial arts practitioner (i.e. most everyone in the military) up against some undisciplined caveman, any day of the week.
@@giuliapicchiotti Definitely not lmao just look at how bs it was that she eoft Gunn for killing someone for her and then started to like Wesley for killing someone for her. Made absolutely no sense. It was all rushed, forced, dribble.
@@northernsupernova1 *Angel was made for everyone. It's just such a shame that Joss Whedon hates women so much that he took revenge on Charisma Carpenter by destroying Cordelia Chase. Yes he did - research it if you don't believe me. (to those that dont already know, not you personally northensupernova)
I love Angel almost as much as I love Buffy - I think I'd love it more if behind the scenes drama hadn't led to the character assassination of Cordelia. I won't be too spoiler-y but to this day it bothers me, and I agree with/ understand why people place Angel Season 5 so highly (Fred/Illyria centric episodes in particular are fantastic), but as someone who couldn't stand Cordy on Buffy and then fell in love with her on Angel, that's a betrayal from Joss I don't think I'll ever get over. Especially because of the way Charisma was treated. It's all just a horrible situation, and I do feel that Season 5 suffered terribly without her. After watching Buffy/Angel so many times, Cordy overtook Willow as my all-time favourite Buffyverse character and it does almost entirely ruin Angel for me. I don't think it's just a case of me going "waaaaaaaa look what they did to my favourite character" - it is legit shady what they did to both the character and the actress.
I agree with that my favourite character was always Cordelia and I hated season 5 and then we got her back only for them to kill her, and why was she the only original character from Buffy to die ? It was unfair I think she had the purist heart as some of the things the other characters did where for selfish reasons Cordelia in Angel never acted selfishly she always did it for others
Yes! Cordelia was my everything back then. I remember campaigning so hard to bring back Angel for season 5 and then we finally got the show back! ...just without Cordy. I was so disgusted that I stopped watching. That is, til that amazing episode You're Welcome. Gah, my poor Cordy loving heart! :(
Now hearing Joss's ex-wife tell all about how he was sleeping with many of the actresses behind the scenes, it really makes you wonder if he was angry at other things besides her pregnancy. Maybe he felt scorned by her?
@@Nightman221k i don't think he was scorned as much as he was angry that Charisma got pregnant. He said in 2012 that he always felt angry, (re: his line for the Hulk in "The Avengers". His, then, wife pointed out that correlated line to him, well after the movie had wrapped.) His wife's revelations & his non-denial don't make him less misogynous to me. i just see more. i get a little more creeped out watching Emma talk about her experience working on Buffy, bc she *doesn't talk* about it. The BTS footage of him & Amber. Just..stuff like that. i heard a man joking about buying 'sanitary napkins' for his wife, and comparing it to shopping for toothpaste if you never had a mouth. As a woman, i can just tell who he slept with.
@@alysiamerdavid-wasser9165 What was the behind the scenes stuff you're talking about. I have all the DVDs but I never rewatched the stuff knowing what I know now.
The last half of Season 5 starting with Smile Time (also included You're Welcome) is my favourite run of episodes in television ever. Such a great way to wrap up the Buffyverse.
This is an underrated gem of a show. Seasons 1 & 2 were amazing, 3 was good, 4 was meh. But season 5 was brilliant especially with the addition of Spike. Angel's & Spike's scenes together made the season. Was gutted when it was cancelled... I wish they got a chance to end the show on their own terms.
Season 4 amazing, every episode felt like a mini movie with a lot of action to, the only thing some people dislike is the cordelia storyline, but i can look past that easily, such a fun season.
@@tvguy61to be honest, it kinda does, and if you woulda told me before I watched Angel season 5 that they would bring him back I would think it’s a bad idea, however after watching it I’m glad they did, even if it does diminish his sacrifice a little
Actually I didn't like season 2 very much, with Darla's return it got a bit boring. Season 4 was better for me. The villain was unbeatable and we saw Angelus's return too. AWESOME
You should read "After The Fall", the direct, canon follow-up comic series. It's well-written, very interesting, and the art style is pretty good. I've only personally read the first, but I definitely think it lives up to the TV series.
I would have said David Boreanaz was enough reason to watch Angel, but this is a good video detailing the additional reasons. I can't wait for the Angel retrospectives.
The episode where Angel turns into a puppet in season 5 is one of the most hilarious things I've ever seen. He was so adorable as that little grumpy puppet. I loved that episode. lmao 😂
Wesleyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. It's hard for my friends who I've only gotten through Buffy to understand my undying intense affection for his character. Like really you're in love with the lame new watcher? And I'm just crying my bitter AtS fan tears. Seriously so many people get hung up on not watching Angel because of Angel. Which I admit is kind of a hurdle and how well I like his character probably corresponds to what's going on in the plot. At the end of the day though you are passing up an incredible ensemble show in the world of Buffy, because Angel was bland teen girl bait in Buffy. I don't know why it's so hard to believe he'd more interesting and dynamic on his own show. Also the show is so dark I joke you could play the sad drinking game in season 1. SPOILERS! Take a drink for every time a character in the shot is a character who is dead by the end of the series. It's sort of mind boggling to think about when watching earlier seasons.
WESLEY: Don't I go off and have one last perfect day? Smell the flowers, or sky-dive, or have a go with Mistress Spanks-A-Lot... or whatever the hell one is supposed to do in this situation. ILLYRIA: Mistress who? WESLEY: There is no perfect day for me, Illyria. There is no sunset or painting or finely-aged scotch that's going to sum up my life and make tonight any... There is nothing that I want.
It was undoubtedly one of the best endings to a season I've ever seen. All the moralising they'd ever done came down to a far simpler question of making a difference, even for a moment.
Wesley has one of the best character arks I have ever seen and I’ve seen a lot. I am rewatching BTVS and Angel right now and from seeing Wesley in BTVS he was nerdy and very different to how he ended. He was head boy to rouge demon hunter to dark (because he was neglected) to depressed. And I could go on forever about many small and large things/events that you see that changed him as a person. Honestly, I’m glad they finished where they ended up to. Yes, it would have been exciting if they continued with the show but it ended on a nice ring to it. There is the comics, but I’m not the biggest fan of them. There should be more recognition on Angel and BTVS, they are both very interesting shows. I grew up on these shows and they will always be one of my favourite shows out there, also if you have seen sg1 watch SGU, because that is very interesting.
yes! he's back at last. This is interesting because I actually prefer Angel to Buffy. There's definitely more character growth, better story lines, it's darker. Characters are very flawed and it's the best thing about Angel and Buffy
Daniel Young yeah, I agree, Buffy season 6 was really dark, but in a different way. Like Ian said, Buffy is all about growing up , and Angel about finding a meaning in life as a grown up
+Adna Velic That's true. The characters (beside Buffy) only seemed to grow up rather quickly in season 7, didn't they. I wish Joss had handled it more consistently but that's an argument for another day...
+Daniel Young (conchashima) yes, I mean just look at say Cordelia in season 1 on Buffy and season 2 or 3 of Angel. like a completely different person. Willow and xander didn't change as much
+Adna Velic Willow didn't change as much? I don't want to start a "which show is better" thing (Because they're both awesome), but I'd say it's a pretty long journey from "Heh, I said 'date'!" to "Bored now".
Thank you for bringing up some important things about Angel. First of all, it is this quote: "if nothing we do matters... then all that matters is what we do." I think this may be one of the most important thoughts to make a home for in our brains. People need to sit with this and OWN it. Also....I have always been in awe of Wesley and Cordy. Weeping laughing hanging on tooth and nail step by step awe. It is a testament to the show and the character of Angel that he inspires and encourages others to fulfill more than just their imagined potential; they grow into beings that they never realized could exist, and their light(s) are joyfully blinding. It is their journeys that contribute to making this show ineffable. There is a beauty here that simply hurts. edit and SPOILER. Overlooked in every list of it's kind: DARLA'S DEATHTH/CONNOR'S BIRTH. Nothing of it's kind compares to this. NOTHING.
Passion of the Nerd I just quote it offen but true so much good stuff "If nothing we do matters the only thing that matters is what we do" Also want to ask you cavemen v astronauts?
The one that I'll always remember is, "Would you like me to lie to you now? " The development of the character of Wesley and the final season arc is some of the best television that I have ever seen.
MattH my first girlfriend died and I was alot like him where I would be quite and sad in public but at my apartment is was a crazy mess of troll logic crazy
There are so many memorable quotes. "Numfar do the dance of joy" what an amazing show it was. I was so sad that there was not a season 6... and that Wesley... Best character on TV ever...
I love that you included the bit about the woman in Russia. That story always stuck out to me as being very poignant. And the second you started talking about Season 5 I felt the waterworks approaching. AtS means the world to me and that finale is honestly my favorite episode of television, as much as it makes me cry.
I equally love both shows! Its like picking a favorite child. BTVS is the perky feel good but meaningful show while Angel is the more emo darker but also witty show. I binged Buffy on netflix and watched Angel at the same time (once i got to s4 so the crossover episodes would match up) I found myself being more excited to watch the next episode of Angel because s4 of Buffy was so stale. However looking back on it i rewatch Buffy more and recommend Buffy way more than Angel. So its like i go back and forth with it! But Angel is definitely a great show n worth the try and im excited for the upcoming episode guides!!
That moment when I realised while I was watching an ATS episode that Jeremy Renner AKA Clint Burton/Hawkeye appeared in the Whedonverse first before the Avengers xD
Usually, when one of the channels I'm subscribed to posts a new video and I get a notification about it, I think, "Oh, cool! I can watch that when I have some free time tomorrow." When this channel posts a new video, I go, "WHERE IS MY COMPUTER BECAUSE I NEED TO WATCH THIS RIGHT. NOW." That said, this video didn't disappoint. Now, if you'll excuse me, I think I need to go add Angel to my Netflix queue...
I got pretty far in this show for Cordelia, but Connor ruined it for me. I'm a Dawn apologist, but there's no excuse for Connor. But idk, maybe I'll suffer through a few more bad episodes if season five is as good as people say it is.
Angel was highly underrated and awesome. The title character was definitely better on his own show than Buffy, but still never what made the show great - the supporting ensemble cast was amazing, with so much depth, grit, and nuance. Dark gritty writing, with enough fantasy and humor to keep things interesting, this show really deserves more love. The characters were SO good. Especially Cordelia and Wesley - especially amazing considering how they both started.
+Khuthulun Hempstock Think if you didn't know what was happening then most of the images would just wash over you. It's only if you can recognise the episode from the image that you might think it gives things away. Example: He mentions parenthood and we see Conner, but to a non-fan the specific character who has a child isn't mentioned and they wouldn't know who Conner was.
+Khuthulun Hempstock True, and I'm usually REALLY anti-spoilers, but... knowing that Spike apears in the series for a significant amount of time is probably one of the main draws for a lot of people. I think it's worth it, but I could be wrong.
_squeal_ You're back! "that one guy from bones" is literally how I could describe Boreanaz to anybody. This video was epic and I can't wait for more from you. No pressure!
I can't say I've seen a review that's actually moved me until I saw this review. You did an amazing job honestly, and raised the best argument to watch it. It's interesting to me that you got the exact same meaning out of it that I did.
I have a very love hate relationship with Angel. I love love seasons 1,2,5 and first part of 3. but I hate season 4 and what the writers did to Cordelia Chase. UGGGGGGHHH.......I am still mad at that 11 years later
+Cleapatra25 I have to agree on that. I loved all the Darla episodes in season 3 and i thought it would be my favourite. And theb teenage Connor appeared...
puchmarnyk The Connor could have been so much better but I feel that they didn't know where they were going to go with it. LIke they just kind of threw him in there and the rest would work itself out like Fred.....but no The Connor story was handled so poorly they had to retcon it in season 5.
I don't know what you're talking about, season 4 was the best of the series. It's so dark, and Wesley finally becomes the great character he was destined to be. The only thing I didn't like was Connor, I hated Connor. So delusional, never seeing the picture.
Season 5 of Angel was one of the best things pre streaming network television has ever produced, hands down. Buffy was groundbreaking in it's own way but was still a CW teen angst drama at heart. Angel was for grown-ups. Except for Pylea. Screw Pylea.
SPOILER ALERT FOR THE ENTIRE SERIES! Having just finished rewatching this series, I just have to say - the cancellation of Angel at the end of season 5 was a far more terrible problem than I originally thought when I watched 'Not Fade Away', the finale. Not just because season 5 was the best and season 6 had the potential to be even better, and not just because the series ends on a cliffhanger (that cliffhanger is a completely fitting end, thematically), but because of a far more central issue - the characters' arcs ended on the wrong place. At the end of 'Not Fade Away', team Angel wasn't just facing impossible odds (which *does* make perfect sense as the end, thematically), it was also COMPLETELY MORALLY BANKRUPT. Well, not completely, but very, *very* immoral. Angel's actions in that episode were not guided by "If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do", they were guided by "Heroes don't accept the world the way it is, they fight it". Which, of course, was said by LINDSEY, of all people. AKA the bad guy. I'll explain: In the finale, Angel consistently chooses to do things that go against the show's philosophy - he executes Lindsey (what about redemption?) through Lorne's hands (so much for saving people's souls), he kills a good guy, Drogyn, so he can get to kill more bad guys (I thought all that matters is what we do?), he kills archduke Sebasis by poisoning and killing his innocent servant (collateral damage anyone?), he brainwashes an innocent politician into believing he's a pedophile so he (Angel) can keep his undercover status, and of course, he risks the lives of his entire team (not to mention anyone getting in the crossfire) for the sake of a mission that he KNOWS is not necessary, and won't change anything. It is admirable that Angel wanted to stick to his principles and fight the bad guys without compromise, and it is admirable that he was willing to sacrifice his life for the good fight, but once he started doing evil things for the greater good, his actions stopped being heroic, and started being selfish and misguided, and simply evil. He pretty much became Jasmine, in the final episode of the show. Of course, all of these immoral acts don't constitute a problem by themselves - I love grey characters, and Angel's actions definitely make sense given his arc over the season (and the series as a whole, up to that point), and it makes perfect sense that season 5 would end with Angel being morally compromised, given the season's themes of corruption and "selling out", and the whole thing actually has a sort of poetry to it - Wolfram & Hart brought Angel to their L.A branch so they could corrupt him into being a nihilistic puppet who did their bidding, and ended up corrupting Angel by turning him into a takes-no-prisoners fanatic zealot who hurt them more than ever, instead. It's perfect, as a PART of the story. The problem is that it can't end there. You can end the story with Angel as a tragic hero who does evil because of good intentions, but then you'd have to end the story with Angel *recognizing* his mistakes and having a "what have I done?" moment. And 'Not Fade Away' doesn't have any moment like that. It works PERFECTLY as a *season* finale, but it is NOT a *series* finale. That's just not what it is. It is an end of one chapter, that *demands* a next chapter to deal with its consequences. The problem with the end of AtS is... that it is *not* an end. It is a to-be-continued, and not because of the fact that we don't know if the gang survived the last fight. Of course, that last *scene* IS perfectly suitable as the end of the series, but it should never have appeared in that *episode*, or even that *season*. The "Let's go to work" scene should have been reserved for the end of the 6th season, if we had gotten it. As the end of season 5, it pretty much *contradicts* everything else we see in the episode, thematically. I can accept it as a compromise that the writers had to do because of the abrupt cancellation of the show, but I just don't see how you can describe it as "one of the best finales I've ever seen". It is a terrific *season* finale, but it is a fundamentally flawed *series* finale. Just my 2 cents. All of this, of course, means that I'm even MORE happy that we got a canonical continuation of both shows. 'Angel: After the Fall' was problematic, IMO, but 'Angel & Faith' makes perfect sense as the continuation of Angel's story, given where the TV series ended up leaving him (Of course, you have to read Buffy season 8 before you read 'Angel & Faith'). I highly recommend it, if you haven't read it.
+Guy R Thankfully for me, Angel Season 5 is forever and a day away. Given how much you comment here man, and the quality of insight you have, have you ever considered a blog of your own?
Passion of the Nerd Oh, yeah, there's time, heh. I just had to get it out after watching the episode, you know? Thanks for the kind words, but I only comment here so much because I really enjoy your thoughts, and the community here. I really should comment less, it takes way more time than I have to spare, LOL, but I can't help myself. If I ever start a blog, I might as well say goodbye to my "real-life". I have literally *zero* self-control when it comes to this stuff...
Well, you have shined Not Fade Away in a new light for me. I went from hating Not Fade Away on my first viewing to loving it after revisiting it taking into consideration the themes of Angel as a show years later. But now I am not so sure what to think. I believe I need to give Not Fade Away another look now.
6:28: "Sometimes right is right, regardless of its futility." You can talk it to death, try to rationalize it 100 ways. But the right thing is the right thing, is the right thing. A vampire detective taught me that.
Aaaaaah. Saw this zillions of times and still I do have tears in my eyes exactly at the moment when first tone of "Remembering Jeny" hits. It´s like Pavlov´s reflex or something.
Angel Season 5 is in my opinion, the best season of both Buffy and Angel. It's so perfect and the finale is one of the greatest ever made. If anyone is wondering whether to watch it or continue it, do it cause it's absolutely worth it.
This was my favorite show growing up that and Buffy. Mostly Angel for the reasons you described, although I may not have realized it at the time. I liked that every character had their own stories to tell.... and no to mention David (Angel) is really good looking.
This came up on my front page just now, and I literally did a little dance. It's, like, 9 in the morning, so that's a big deal for me!! I am waiting eagerly for the rest of your Buffy reviews, and the fact that you plan to do an Angel episode guide as well makes me super happy!! That being said, please hurry the eff up and get on season 3 of Buffy before I explode with anticipation.
THANK YOU FOR THIS - I have literally done panels at multiple cons that dissolved into us screaming WATCH ANGEL WATCH ANGEL NO SERIOUSLY WATCH ANGEL. This is much more eloquent.
this ep is so great! i love your take on Angel. and yes, i love the finale. it is not a cliche like heros always win in the end. the end is open to interpretations while it also is pretty obvious. i love that quote before the big fight " the powerful controls everything, except our will to choose. Heros don't accept the way the world is."
Excellent video! If any Angel fan wants to know what happens to Angel and the group after that final scene in the alley way in the last episode, then I highly suggest reading After the Fall. It's one of the greatest comic book series I've ever read, and it continues the show (it's basically season 6) as if it were written by the series' best writers. Believe me, you won't regret it.
I think Cordy was definitely the heart of the group in Angel. It was great to see her develop from a shallow Sunnydale High into a wise young woman of Angel Investigations.
+get2rog i hated her character post conor. She turned into an evil, pseudo incestuous cradle robber psycho demon. Ummm give me back vapid cordy any day over that mess. In her final appearance we get her back... But it was too little too late.
+Elisheval everybody hated Season 4 Cordy, personally I've never seen a character so completely ruined. There was a lot of behind-the-scenes drama between her actress and Whedon, and they had to work around her suprise pregnancy (hence the weird Connor/Cordelia baby stuff), but they still could have done better.
Something that touches me as I rewatch the series. Both the real life actors who portrayed memorable characters (Doyle and Lorne) passed away. Both Glenn Quinn and Andy Hallett performed magnificently in there roles and it’s their lasting impact as those characters than make this show even more memorable. Knowing that these were their last and best performances of their lives.
I can't wait for your Angel reviews. A few days ago I got my girlfriend to watch Buffy finally and now we're already up to season 3 since she can't stop watching it.
This is absolutely one of my favorite series. I'd say it's even better than Buffy the vampire slayer. The character development and how it handles deeply emotional, complex issues is phenomenal, as well as the pure creativity. But probably what I like the most about Angel is that it shows such a nuanced view on good vs evil, which the Buffy show just didn't quite manage.
That was wonderful. Angel was a very good show. I watched it when it came on TV and I literally sat awestruck through every commercial - of course I eventually yelled at my TV to hurry up, it never listens to me - just because Angel is such an interesting show. I enjoyed the video. I wish I could've watched it sooner. It's officially one of my favs. I love your point of view and look. forward to more! As I always say "Someone finally understands!"
I'm watching it through for the first time after catching stray episodes as a kid/teen, and when they moved into the Hyperion it really felt like "yeah, we're home" because most of what I saw was from later on
angel helped me deal with life my girlfriend died in the 2000s Wes story helped me deal with it so so much I cry still when she lies for him this is a great video if I do anything good in my life I have to thank joss ty for this
I could not have said it better Sir. I am so glad I found your channel. I would also say that "Smile Time" and "You're Welcome" are worth watching all of Angel in and of themselves. Don't even get me started on "Hole in the World" and "She'll" because I will start crying.
I wish I could watch Angel for the first time again!! I started watching Buffy from the get go back in the day when you could only watch it at a certain time on normal TV, then this show Angel came on afterwards - I didn't know they were doing a spin-off and from the first episode I was hooked!! And until the end of both shows that was my regaulr night watching those back to back (except for season 5 naturally). I was and still am a bit heartbroken that the show finished early IMO, but man how good was Season 5 which is still to this day the greatest finish to any TV series.
I love Angel waaaay more than I like Buffy. I watched Buffy but was never a big fan, but I loved Angel, and I've seen the show multiple times. Great video, thank you
Reading the comments I am glad I'm not alone in this, this channel is so good, so good. Every time you post a video, it brightens my day. Plus, the list of spin-offs you posted as an example of unsuckyness seriously makes me think you are actually some sort of telepathic alien that has stolen my brain, and used it better than I've ever had.
“You know how you try to save every single person in the world? Did it ever occur to you that you’re one of them?” This single quote that I heard in another youtube video made me watch this show.
I loved Buffy, but never could get into Angel when it originally debuted. Because I enjoy your episode guides for Buffy so much, I decided to give Angel another shot. I was just about convinced that my first impression was correct when I reached the episode where Faith showed up in L.A. Now i'm curious enough to watch a few more...I particularly liked Angel essentially telling Buffy to grow up and accept that she's not the center of his universe anymore.
+J Will On my rewatch of Angel to make this video I think I decided that its better to binge Angel than to watch it "properly" inline with Buffy Seasons 4-7 - especially if you kind of struggle to get into it. It has a vastly different rhythm than Buffy and I got into it much more easily without hot swapping back and forth between episodes.
+Passion of the Nerd Yeah...watching it in real time 15 years ago it just didn't resonate while Buffy was still putting out new shows, so I think you're probably right about just watching straight through.
+Passion of the Nerd Ok, I finally threw in the towel. I LOVED Buffy, but Angel? Eesh...the only way I've been able to get through it is by treating the entire series (to use your words) as a "maguffin filled candy series." And, I guess since we're talking about watching a show that's (at least on the surface) about a vampire detective agency, that's ok.
Aaaargh why would you use Remembering Jenny for the last portion of the video?! I only just marathon'd Angel seasons 4&5 a couple of months ago so the feels are still fresh. Great video.
I just love the setting of Buffy and Angel. Along the side of World of Darkness, and the Secret World, Buffyverse is one of the most fleshed out and cool supernatural mythologies.
Totally agree with your analysis. The way that you transmited the concepts and ideas that the show presents to the audience is remarkable. Clearly, you undertanded all that the series as to offer. Congrats!
Angel seasons 1, 2, and 3 made me laugh and kept me invested. Season 4 was absolute guttertrash and an insult towards all the actors Season 5 had all the makings of a show that should have been continued, but fucking networks, what can ya do. Smile Time was one of the best episodes ever, while ANY episode with Fred and later Illeria just completed messed me up =[
Not only was Angel an underrated show, but it was better than many other movies and TV shows about vampires. Better than all Dracula's versions, better than The Vampire Diaries, better than True Blood, better than Blade, better than Van Helsing, better than the Underworld saga, better than that rubbish Twilight. It's simply the most meaningful, darkest, and most badass vampire production that has ever existed.
Hey, Ian's back at it! Hi Ian! So when you took your break I had not seen a single episode of Angel. I was saving it in a way, like an unopened box of candy. But after your break, at some point I decided to crack it open and I've seen the whole thing now. It's so very difficult to put into words, just as you described. Buffy is undoubtedly funnier, the individual characters stand out more, the journey feels more personal. But I almost feel like, and most obviously by season 5, that the writers KNEW that and deliberately incorporated it into both the broader arc and the philosophy of the show, and I'll try to explain why. With Buffy, everything revolves around her being the Slayer, her being so special. Everyone's lives are affected by it, by how she does it or doesn't do it, how they support her or don't, and the role she plays in the greater scheme of things. The show contains some hard lessons, but it's ultimately always got a strong element of wish fulfillment to it because of that. If Angel is a show about being an adult, one of the hardest things to accept about being an adult is the reality that you may not be as special as you thought you were, that you may not matter that much in the scheme of things. That you can do everything right and work your whole life at doing something good and still have it come out to nothing, because the essential nature of things is set against your attempts to make it better. It's a horrible, tragic idea that most of us try not to think about in our daily lives, and it's either implied or on several occasions explicitly stated to Angel and his friends through the entire show. They deny it, defy it, make quips about it, do all sorts of heroic things to doggedly oppose this notion and, in the end, we're left to assume they go to their deaths defying it. It IS noble, and inspiring, but it's also so radically different from Buffy. Buffy's always important, always the center of not only the show but of the whole battle of good versus evil. Whatever happens to her is significant, win or lose, and being the focal point in such a way reflects a certain youthful idealism. Despite Angel's stated importance as a key figure in a coming apocalypse, he's nothing like her. And you never get the sense in Buffy that she and her friends may simply be steamrolled by the world and forgotten like you do in Angel, where they could all die and the world would just keep turning and all that would have mattered is what they did while they could, and what they were to each other. That's something adults have to accept, and it's a much bleaker and more poignant reality that's only revealed very gradually, through the longer, more involved arcs and ethos of the show. It makes everything that happens in the fifth season more meaningful, more tragic, more heartbreaking, and I feel only makes it's full impact when you've taken in the series in it's entirety.
+Skizane I think you were a bit harsh on BtVS here (Season 6 is ALL ABOUT the idea that Buffy herself doesn't matter, for example), but it's a really good analysis of Angel. Kudos.
I stumbled upon your channel by accident and Angel being one of my favourite ever shows growing up I had to watch this video. You have summarised this show better than I have ever seen it summarised. I look forward to further content thankyou. I'm going to re-watch it now :)
Angel season 4 is my favourite season of either show, yes i know, i am in a minority of 1. As always thank you for doing this, lt is my favourite RUclips channel.
+Mark Fudge No shame in that game. On the rewatch I did to make this, Season 4 grew on me considerably now that I was properly prepped for the Cordelia situation.
Passion of the Nerd In my head She never came back, she was an empty vessel. I love the juxta position of the 'big bad' being all about peace and love. As a moral argument of is happy slavery better than unhappy freedom.
This video gave me goosebumps. I need to do an Angel re-watch...like *NOW*! It truly is a great show. Although I feel like a weirdo b/c S4 is by far my favorite. I *love* how serialized it is, where each episode begins where the previous left off. The whole season is like one long episode, and it's a roller coaster ride! And S5 is actually my 2nd least fav after S1. Although there are some parts that are absolutely brilliant, there are other parts that are like an absolute trainwreck :\ But anyhoo, great job! No one could have given a more convincing argument to watch Angel :)
Totally agree. I loved season 4 I'm shocked many people dislike it I don't understand. so exciting it was the height of the angel series. season 5 was a step backward. Altho I still love it
Possessed Cordy was really my biggest beef as well. I didn't *hate* season 4 -- there were some excellent episodes (and more Faith!) -- but of the five seasons, it's my least favorite. It was easy to tell that season that Joss was trying to juggle three shows at once (this was when Firefly was on the air).
Damn this whole show brings on the tears... why did I watch this? *spoilers* Now I want to re-watch Buffy+Angel, but also don't because it's so damned heart-wrenching. Damn you Joss Whedon, damn you! Why Fred? Take Tara, take Doyle but not Fred!
This is probably my favourite video you've made to date. Great job buddy! I'm loving your dedication to the Whedonverse :) it definitely had a huge impact on me when I was younger.
![I wish I could (and I don't) love Wes [Angel the Series]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QesOzxN3Vss/mqdefault.jpg)
WARNING! If you haven't seen Angel yet, I'd avoid reading the comments, there are a lot of spoilers ahead.
You have been warned.
catlover12670 you know I wish I could erase all of my knowledge of Buffy and Angel so I could rewatch it again for the first time if you are reading this and you have not seen Buffy or angel I envy you so much you're in for an awesome emotional rollercoaster of Awesome
Thanks
Not the videos rating in your own words how amazing was it
Not to take it too far, but does anyone see similarities between Angel, and the earlier series Forever Knight? Both shows feature vampires trying to make up for their past by fighting crime or evil. In Forever Knight, the vampire is a police detective, in Angel, a private investigator. Both men have vampires from their pasts who they were once companions or friends with, but with whom they have a strained relationship with now. Forever Knight seemed more like a standard police drama with a vampire thrown in, where as Angel is set in a more supernatural world.
Of the two shows I probably would say I like Angel better, since it was an extension of the Buffy world.
I have been planning a Buffy marathon to watch all seven seasons. I realized it would be an opportunity to watch the Angel series as well, integrating the Angel episodes in with the Buffy episodes that are cross over stories, or where events in one show have a concurrent effect int the other.
That said, I would welcome any suggestions as to in what order to watch both shows together, so as to get the whole Buffy/Angel experience.
"If nothing that we do matters, then all that matters is what we do." Possibly my favorite quote.
of my favorite episode
Mine too
Huh
UM, BECAUSE BUFFY VERSE IS THE BEST EVER. AS IF!!!&
My second favorite, right after, "It might be bunnies."
I loved Lorne, a character that began as a fun loving pacifist demon...and ended as a broken shell of his former self after taking a life. Every character went through changes in the series, but because he was my favourite character, for me, Lorne's was most heartbreaking.
Lorens actor died. It was sad.
RIP Andy Hallet
very true that was sad
Yes sadly he did die at a really young age too :(
Wesley is one of the greatest characters in fiction period
"Wesley is one of the greatest characters in fiction period"
... which is pretty amazing considering how he started.
Wesly is the batman of angel
His final scene is, probably, one of the most heart-rending scenes in all of television. A moment which, even to this day, I cannot get through without bawling my eyes out. As far as character development, few characters in the Buffy/Angelverse, save, maybe, Faith (and Willow, too), had such an amazing arc.
Angel attempting to kill him after the Conor fiasco was the best seen ever
I agree to an extent just because i love what they did with his character growth.
You forgot the most important point. The question that looms over the fifth season and regards to the underlying themes of the duality between the main two characters. The study of primal force in comparison to the evolved stance of all mankind. The question whether it's best to just go with it, independent, or to band together, even when there is so much more to lose that way. Whether there is selfishness in unity and selflessness in the lack of it. The threads that tie in one of the saddest moments of the season. The age old question that even left the entire fanbase divided.
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Who would win in a fight, cavemen or astronauts?
Do the astronauts have weapons?
+Veikko Elo Fred died to answer that question, cavemen win.
+Veikko Elo Cavemen would win of course. As soon as they mangle your equipment from the Astronauts uniform and break through the glass. Bye Bye Astronauts.
+Veikko Elo Do the astronauts have weapons?
+Mu Lyo Astronauts are often trained military personnel. I'll put any martial arts practitioner (i.e. most everyone in the military) up against some undisciplined caveman, any day of the week.
Everytime I see Fred and Westley together my heart breaks a little
So does mine but only because she should've been with Gunn. The Fresley storyline was such bullshit.
@@angelus1738 Nah !! , the Fresley's were clearly meant to be since the beginning !!!
@@giuliapicchiotti Definitely not lmao just look at how bs it was that she eoft Gunn for killing someone for her and then started to like Wesley for killing someone for her. Made absolutely no sense. It was all rushed, forced, dribble.
you are my sunshine my only sunshine you make me happy.....this song
Honestly, I love Angel more than Buffy, it just had a more lasting impact on me. Not just an great spin off, it's an amazing show in its own right
Buffy was made for school kids/early teens, Angel was for late teens/young adults
@@northernsupernova1 *Angel was made for everyone.
It's just such a shame that Joss Whedon hates women so much that he took revenge on Charisma Carpenter by destroying Cordelia Chase.
Yes he did - research it if you don't believe me. (to those that dont already know, not you personally northensupernova)
@@HannibalKing-e7eAs if shows never worked around that before. 🙄
I love Angel almost as much as I love Buffy - I think I'd love it more if behind the scenes drama hadn't led to the character assassination of Cordelia. I won't be too spoiler-y but to this day it bothers me, and I agree with/ understand why people place Angel Season 5 so highly (Fred/Illyria centric episodes in particular are fantastic), but as someone who couldn't stand Cordy on Buffy and then fell in love with her on Angel, that's a betrayal from Joss I don't think I'll ever get over. Especially because of the way Charisma was treated. It's all just a horrible situation, and I do feel that Season 5 suffered terribly without her. After watching Buffy/Angel so many times, Cordy overtook Willow as my all-time favourite Buffyverse character and it does almost entirely ruin Angel for me. I don't think it's just a case of me going "waaaaaaaa look what they did to my favourite character" - it is legit shady what they did to both the character and the actress.
I agree with that my favourite character was always Cordelia and I hated season 5 and then we got her back only for them to kill her, and why was she the only original character from Buffy to die ? It was unfair I think she had the purist heart as some of the things the other characters did where for selfish reasons Cordelia in Angel never acted selfishly she always did it for others
Yes! Cordelia was my everything back then. I remember campaigning so hard to bring back Angel for season 5 and then we finally got the show back! ...just without Cordy. I was so disgusted that I stopped watching. That is, til that amazing episode You're Welcome. Gah, my poor Cordy loving heart! :(
Now hearing Joss's ex-wife tell all about how he was sleeping with many of the actresses behind the scenes, it really makes you wonder if he was angry at other things besides her pregnancy. Maybe he felt scorned by her?
@@Nightman221k
i don't think he was scorned as much as he was angry that Charisma got pregnant. He said in 2012 that he always felt angry, (re: his line for the Hulk in "The Avengers". His, then, wife pointed out that correlated line to him, well after the movie had wrapped.) His wife's revelations & his non-denial don't make him less misogynous to me. i just see more. i get a little more creeped out watching Emma talk about her experience working on Buffy, bc she *doesn't talk* about it. The BTS footage of him & Amber. Just..stuff like that. i heard a man joking about buying 'sanitary napkins' for his wife, and comparing it to shopping for toothpaste if you never had a mouth. As a woman, i can just tell who he slept with.
@@alysiamerdavid-wasser9165 What was the behind the scenes stuff you're talking about. I have all the DVDs but I never rewatched the stuff knowing what I know now.
The last half of Season 5 starting with Smile Time (also included You're Welcome) is my favourite run of episodes in television ever. Such a great way to wrap up the Buffyverse.
Angel is so much more than just a buffy spin-off.
This is an underrated gem of a show. Seasons 1 & 2 were amazing, 3 was good, 4 was meh. But season 5 was brilliant especially with the addition of Spike. Angel's & Spike's scenes together made the season. Was gutted when it was cancelled... I wish they got a chance to end the show on their own terms.
Season 4 amazing, every episode felt like a mini movie with a lot of action to, the only thing some people dislike is the cordelia storyline, but i can look past that easily, such a fun season.
There are comics that continue the story
@@tvguy61to be honest, it kinda does, and if you woulda told me before I watched Angel season 5 that they would bring him back I would think it’s a bad idea, however after watching it I’m glad they did, even if it does diminish his sacrifice a little
Actually I didn't like season 2 very much, with Darla's return it got a bit boring. Season 4 was better for me. The villain was unbeatable and we saw Angelus's return too. AWESOME
You should read "After The Fall", the direct, canon follow-up comic series. It's well-written, very interesting, and the art style is pretty good. I've only personally read the first, but I definitely think it lives up to the TV series.
I would have said David Boreanaz was enough reason to watch Angel, but this is a good video detailing the additional reasons.
I can't wait for the Angel retrospectives.
I miss Doyle :'(
RIP Glenn Quinn
people should at least watch season 5 because spike and angel together is the funniest and best thing you'll ever see
"They're looking at the wee little puppet man."
Correction: Spike is what makes it what it is!
I've actually only seen season 5, because Spike. ❤️
Agreed. Just finished watching Angel and Buffy a week again. And Season 5 of Angel is astonishing and Amazing.
@@missnaomi613 s3 is incredible
The episode where Angel turns into a puppet in season 5 is one of the most hilarious things I've ever seen. He was so adorable as that little grumpy puppet. I loved that episode. lmao 😂
Wesleyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. It's hard for my friends who I've only gotten through Buffy to understand my undying intense affection for his character. Like really you're in love with the lame new watcher? And I'm just crying my bitter AtS fan tears. Seriously so many people get hung up on not watching Angel because of Angel. Which I admit is kind of a hurdle and how well I like his character probably corresponds to what's going on in the plot. At the end of the day though you are passing up an incredible ensemble show in the world of Buffy, because Angel was bland teen girl bait in Buffy. I don't know why it's so hard to believe he'd more interesting and dynamic on his own show.
Also the show is so dark I joke you could play the sad drinking game in season 1. SPOILERS! Take a drink for every time a character in the shot is a character who is dead by the end of the series. It's sort of mind boggling to think about when watching earlier seasons.
+Rachel Glenn That drinking game is IMPOSSIBLE.
Haha, I know.
If you REEEEEAALLLY want to go on a bender, play that drinking game while watching Game of Thrones.
If you count the fact that Angel is also dead (throughout and at the end of the series), you'd be hammered before the end of episode one!
WESLEY: Don't I go off and have one last perfect day? Smell the flowers, or sky-dive, or have a go with Mistress Spanks-A-Lot... or whatever the hell one is supposed to do in this situation.
ILLYRIA: Mistress who?
WESLEY: There is no perfect day for me, Illyria. There is no sunset or painting or finely-aged scotch that's going to sum up my life and make tonight any... There is nothing that I want.
It was undoubtedly one of the best endings to a season I've ever seen. All the moralising they'd ever done came down to a far simpler question of making a difference, even for a moment.
I like this RUclips channel better than every TV channel combined.
Wesley has one of the best character arks I have ever seen and I’ve seen a lot. I am rewatching BTVS and Angel right now and from seeing Wesley in BTVS he was nerdy and very different to how he ended. He was head boy to rouge demon hunter to dark (because he was neglected) to depressed. And I could go on forever about many small and large things/events that you see that changed him as a person.
Honestly, I’m glad they finished where they ended up to. Yes, it would have been exciting if they continued with the show but it ended on a nice ring to it. There is the comics, but I’m not the biggest fan of them. There should be more recognition on Angel and BTVS, they are both very interesting shows. I grew up on these shows and they will always be one of my favourite shows out there, also if you have seen sg1 watch SGU, because that is very interesting.
cavemen or astronaut?
CAVEMEN!
Oliver Sacco oh yeh I loved that part XD
Briony Collins me too
Just an ordinary fangirl what team?
Oliver Sacco Astronaut :P :)
yes! he's back at last. This is interesting because I actually prefer Angel to Buffy. There's definitely more character growth, better story lines, it's darker. Characters are very flawed and it's the best thing about Angel and Buffy
What about Buffy seasons 3&5&6 though? I guess still not as dark as Angel, but close in my opinion.
Daniel Young yeah, I agree, Buffy season 6 was really dark, but in a different way. Like Ian said, Buffy is all about growing up , and Angel about finding a meaning in life as a grown up
+Adna Velic That's true. The characters (beside Buffy) only seemed to grow up rather quickly in season 7, didn't they. I wish Joss had handled it more consistently but that's an argument for another day...
+Daniel Young (conchashima) yes, I mean just look at say Cordelia in season 1 on Buffy and season 2 or 3 of Angel. like a completely different person. Willow and xander didn't change as much
+Adna Velic Willow didn't change as much? I don't want to start a "which show is better" thing (Because they're both awesome), but I'd say it's a pretty long journey from "Heh, I said 'date'!" to "Bored now".
But... the question remains: What's a rogue demon?
I always got to smile about that :D
A demon that operates purely on principles of self-interest and self-entertainment with no loyalty to any higher power or purpose.
@@bradypostma5167 so... a normal demon?
Thank you for bringing up some important things about Angel. First of all, it is this quote: "if nothing we do matters... then all that matters is what we do."
I think this may be one of the most important thoughts to make a home for in our brains. People need to sit with this and OWN it.
Also....I have always been in awe of Wesley and Cordy. Weeping laughing hanging on tooth and nail step by step awe. It is a testament to the show and the character of Angel that he inspires and encourages others to fulfill more than just their imagined potential; they grow into beings that they never realized could exist, and their light(s) are joyfully blinding. It is their journeys that contribute to making this show ineffable. There is a beauty here that simply hurts.
edit and SPOILER. Overlooked in every list of it's kind: DARLA'S DEATHTH/CONNOR'S BIRTH. Nothing of it's kind compares to this. NOTHING.
best line "I just can't seem to care"
There's a lot of stone cold lines in that series.
Passion of the Nerd I just quote it offen but true so much good stuff
"If nothing we do matters the only thing that matters is what we do"
Also want to ask you cavemen v astronauts?
The one that I'll always remember is, "Would you like me to lie to you now? "
The development of the character of Wesley and the final season arc is some of the best television that I have ever seen.
MattH my first girlfriend died and I was alot like him where I would be quite and sad in public but at my apartment is was a crazy mess of troll logic crazy
There are so many memorable quotes. "Numfar do the dance of joy" what an amazing show it was. I was so sad that there was not a season 6... and that Wesley... Best character on TV ever...
Great to see you back! I love Angel. "If nothing we do matters, all that matters is what we do" is one of my favorite quotes from any medium ever.
I love that you included the bit about the woman in Russia. That story always stuck out to me as being very poignant. And the second you started talking about Season 5 I felt the waterworks approaching. AtS means the world to me and that finale is honestly my favorite episode of television, as much as it makes me cry.
plus, amy acker
Exactly.
She's so much easier to like in Angel, than in the (current) X-men spinoff "The Gifted".
@@matthewleathart2524 Loved her in Angel and Person of Interest.
@@andhisband Precisely.
I equally love both shows! Its like picking a favorite child. BTVS is the perky feel good but meaningful show while Angel is the more emo darker but also witty show. I binged Buffy on netflix and watched Angel at the same time (once i got to s4 so the crossover episodes would match up) I found myself being more excited to watch the next episode of Angel because s4 of Buffy was so stale. However looking back on it i rewatch Buffy more and recommend Buffy way more than Angel. So its like i go back and forth with it! But Angel is definitely a great show n worth the try and im excited for the upcoming episode guides!!
That moment when I realised while I was watching an ATS episode that Jeremy Renner AKA Clint Burton/Hawkeye appeared in the Whedonverse first before the Avengers xD
Usually, when one of the channels I'm subscribed to posts a new video and I get a notification about it, I think, "Oh, cool! I can watch that when I have some free time tomorrow."
When this channel posts a new video, I go, "WHERE IS MY COMPUTER BECAUSE I NEED TO WATCH THIS RIGHT. NOW."
That said, this video didn't disappoint. Now, if you'll excuse me, I think I need to go add Angel to my Netflix queue...
+bookworm1880 I'm still regularly astonished that anyone cares to listen to me talk. But thank you.
+Passion of the Nerd This is quality content. You're like the pope now.
I got pretty far in this show for Cordelia, but Connor ruined it for me. I'm a Dawn apologist, but there's no excuse for Connor.
But idk, maybe I'll suffer through a few more bad episodes if season five is as good as people say it is.
Connor literally grew up in the worst hell dimension, he has the best excuse.
I should have been clearer. I didn't mean that Connor has no excuse. I meant that the writers have no excuse for creating him.
+thepispsilent I hate Connor too but I think the writers reedeemed him (and themselves) in season 5 ep "Origin". I actually liked him there
Baby shark do do da do to do.
Honestly, Connor is a little shit; but at least he's not Kennedy. She's the worst of BtVS or Angel.
Angel was highly underrated and awesome. The title character was definitely better on his own show than Buffy, but still never what made the show great - the supporting ensemble cast was amazing, with so much depth, grit, and nuance. Dark gritty writing, with enough fantasy and humor to keep things interesting, this show really deserves more love. The characters were SO good. Especially Cordelia and Wesley - especially amazing considering how they both started.
I have to admit I got a little emotional seeing shots of season 5. Awesome video (although a bit spoilery I feel).
+Khuthulun Hempstock Think if you didn't know what was happening then most of the images would just wash over you. It's only if you can recognise the episode from the image that you might think it gives things away.
Example: He mentions parenthood and we see Conner, but to a non-fan the specific character who has a child isn't mentioned and they wouldn't know who Conner was.
+NotSoSuperPete Yes but I was thinking more of Spike blatantly coming back from annihilation, for example.
+Khuthulun Hempstock Well, the actual show spoils that with the opening credits of that episode, so...
+Guy R True, but not season 1 episode 1.
+Khuthulun Hempstock True, and I'm usually REALLY anti-spoilers, but... knowing that Spike apears in the series for a significant amount of time is probably one of the main draws for a lot of people. I think it's worth it, but I could be wrong.
_squeal_ You're back! "that one guy from bones" is literally how I could describe Boreanaz to anybody. This video was epic and I can't wait for more from you. No pressure!
Buffy and angel > Charmed
Same here there my favourite t.v. shows and in that same order.
But I love charmed too. It’s harder for me to choose. I think mine would be charmed then buffy then angel :)
I can't say I've seen a review that's actually moved me until I saw this review. You did an amazing job honestly, and raised the best argument to watch it. It's interesting to me that you got the exact same meaning out of it that I did.
"It's on netflix". YEEEY Finally! *Looks at date this video was uploaded* NOOOOOO!!
IffeOnline it’s on hulu
It's on Disney +
“If there is no bigger meaning, then the smallest act of kindness is the greatest thing in the world” has always stuck with me.
I have a very love hate relationship with Angel. I love love seasons 1,2,5 and first part of 3. but I hate season 4 and what the writers did to Cordelia Chase. UGGGGGGHHH.......I am still mad at that 11 years later
Me too
+Cleapatra25 I have to agree on that. I loved all the Darla episodes in season 3 and i thought it would be my favourite. And theb teenage Connor appeared...
puchmarnyk
The Connor could have been so much better but I feel that they didn't know where they were going to go with it. LIke they just kind of threw him in there and the rest would work itself out like Fred.....but no The Connor story was handled so poorly they had to retcon it in season 5.
+Cleapatra25 Cordelia has the worst character depature ever lol I refuse to believe it was all because Charisma was pregnant.
I don't know what you're talking about, season 4 was the best of the series. It's so dark, and Wesley finally becomes the great character he was destined to be. The only thing I didn't like was Connor, I hated Connor. So delusional, never seeing the picture.
Season 5 of Angel was one of the best things pre streaming network television has ever produced, hands down. Buffy was groundbreaking in it's own way but was still a CW teen angst drama at heart. Angel was for grown-ups. Except for Pylea. Screw Pylea.
SPOILER ALERT FOR THE ENTIRE SERIES! Having just finished rewatching this series, I just have to say - the cancellation of Angel at the end of season 5 was a far more terrible problem than I originally thought when I watched 'Not Fade Away', the finale. Not just because season 5 was the best and season 6 had the potential to be even better, and not just because the series ends on a cliffhanger (that cliffhanger is a completely fitting end, thematically), but because of a far more central issue - the characters' arcs ended on the wrong place. At the end of 'Not Fade Away', team Angel wasn't just facing impossible odds (which *does* make perfect sense as the end, thematically), it was also COMPLETELY MORALLY BANKRUPT. Well, not completely, but very, *very* immoral. Angel's actions in that episode were not guided by "If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do", they were guided by "Heroes don't accept the world the way it is, they fight it". Which, of course, was said by LINDSEY, of all people. AKA the bad guy. I'll explain:
In the finale, Angel consistently chooses to do things that go against the show's philosophy - he executes Lindsey (what about redemption?) through Lorne's hands (so much for saving people's souls), he kills a good guy, Drogyn, so he can get to kill more bad guys (I thought all that matters is what we do?), he kills archduke Sebasis by poisoning and killing his innocent servant (collateral damage anyone?), he brainwashes an innocent politician into believing he's a pedophile so he (Angel) can keep his undercover status, and of course, he risks the lives of his entire team (not to mention anyone getting in the crossfire) for the sake of a mission that he KNOWS is not necessary, and won't change anything.
It is admirable that Angel wanted to stick to his principles and fight the bad guys without compromise, and it is admirable that he was willing to sacrifice his life for the good fight, but once he started doing evil things for the greater good, his actions stopped being heroic, and started being selfish and misguided, and simply evil. He pretty much became Jasmine, in the final episode of the show.
Of course, all of these immoral acts don't constitute a problem by themselves - I love grey characters, and Angel's actions definitely make sense given his arc over the season (and the series as a whole, up to that point), and it makes perfect sense that season 5 would end with Angel being morally compromised, given the season's themes of corruption and "selling out", and the whole thing actually has a sort of poetry to it - Wolfram & Hart brought Angel to their L.A branch so they could corrupt him into being a nihilistic puppet who did their bidding, and ended up corrupting Angel by turning him into a takes-no-prisoners fanatic zealot who hurt them more than ever, instead. It's perfect, as a PART of the story.
The problem is that it can't end there. You can end the story with Angel as a tragic hero who does evil because of good intentions, but then you'd have to end the story with Angel *recognizing* his mistakes and having a "what have I done?" moment. And 'Not Fade Away' doesn't have any moment like that. It works PERFECTLY as a *season* finale, but it is NOT a *series* finale. That's just not what it is. It is an end of one chapter, that *demands* a next chapter to deal with its consequences. The problem with the end of AtS is... that it is *not* an end. It is a to-be-continued, and not because of the fact that we don't know if the gang survived the last fight.
Of course, that last *scene* IS perfectly suitable as the end of the series, but it should never have appeared in that *episode*, or even that *season*. The "Let's go to work" scene should have been reserved for the end of the 6th season, if we had gotten it. As the end of season 5, it pretty much *contradicts* everything else we see in the episode, thematically. I can accept it as a compromise that the writers had to do because of the abrupt cancellation of the show, but I just don't see how you can describe it as "one of the best finales I've ever seen". It is a terrific *season* finale, but it is a fundamentally flawed *series* finale.
Just my 2 cents.
All of this, of course, means that I'm even MORE happy that we got a canonical continuation of both shows. 'Angel: After the Fall' was problematic, IMO, but 'Angel & Faith' makes perfect sense as the continuation of Angel's story, given where the TV series ended up leaving him (Of course, you have to read Buffy season 8 before you read 'Angel & Faith'). I highly recommend it, if you haven't read it.
+Guy R Thankfully for me, Angel Season 5 is forever and a day away. Given how much you comment here man, and the quality of insight you have, have you ever considered a blog of your own?
Passion of the Nerd Oh, yeah, there's time, heh. I just had to get it out after watching the episode, you know?
Thanks for the kind words, but I only comment here so much because I really enjoy your thoughts, and the community here. I really should comment less, it takes way more time than I have to spare, LOL, but I can't help myself. If I ever start a blog, I might as well say goodbye to my "real-life". I have literally *zero* self-control when it comes to this stuff...
Guy R Well if you do start one let me know. I'd read it. Cheers.
Passion of the Nerd You betcha! and Thanks :)
Well, you have shined Not Fade Away in a new light for me. I went from hating Not Fade Away on my first viewing to loving it after revisiting it taking into consideration the themes of Angel as a show years later. But now I am not so sure what to think. I believe I need to give Not Fade Away another look now.
Season five just tore my heart out, but it the most beautiful way. I can't wait for your Angel episode guide!
After a hard night out with buddies, staying in to rehydrate my brain and binge watching Buffy and Angel breakdowns sounds like the cure to me!
6:28: "Sometimes right is right, regardless of its futility." You can talk it to death, try to rationalize it 100 ways. But the right thing is the right thing, is the right thing. A vampire detective taught me that.
Remember when spike and Cordelia were on supernatural?
Fred was in season one too
and darla. and harmony, also playing a vampire...
also amber benson (tara) had a recurring role as a vampire. Mayor wilkins and Felicia day (Vi) were on it as well
Max Burke what episode. I must know
Nerdprodigy. darla was in season 1, episode 12, and harmony was briefly in season 3 episode 7
It got quite dark towards the end. I wasn't expecting that.
I fucking love the finale of Angel, it's still the best finale I have seen to this date.
I actually think I agree. All Good Things (STTNG) is great. Breaking Bad's is good (Ozymandius is the real finale though.)
I don't like star trek and I wasn't a big fan of that BB finale but at least it made up for the Dexter finale that week.
I agree, but I NEED MORE!
I laugh whenever someone complains about the way the finale ended. Like... were these people not paying attention the past five seasons?
Read Angel: After the Fall
Aaaaaah. Saw this zillions of times and still I do have tears in my eyes exactly at the moment when first tone of "Remembering Jeny" hits. It´s like Pavlov´s reflex or something.
I don't know why but the last part with the music at the end teared me up. I love the show angel and buffy the vampire slayer
Angel Season 5 is in my opinion, the best season of both Buffy and Angel. It's so perfect and the finale is one of the greatest ever made. If anyone is wondering whether to watch it or continue it, do it cause it's absolutely worth it.
This was my favorite show growing up that and Buffy. Mostly Angel for the reasons you described, although I may not have realized it at the time. I liked that every character had their own stories to tell.... and no to mention David (Angel) is really good looking.
This came up on my front page just now, and I literally did a little dance.
It's, like, 9 in the morning, so that's a big deal for me!!
I am waiting eagerly for the rest of your Buffy reviews, and the fact that you plan to do an Angel episode guide as well makes me super happy!!
That being said, please hurry the eff up and get on season 3 of Buffy before I explode with anticipation.
THANK YOU FOR THIS - I have literally done panels at multiple cons that dissolved into us screaming WATCH ANGEL WATCH ANGEL NO SERIOUSLY WATCH ANGEL. This is much more eloquent.
this ep is so great! i love your take on Angel. and yes, i love the finale. it is not a cliche like heros always win in the end. the end is open to interpretations while it also is pretty obvious. i love that quote before the big fight " the powerful controls everything, except our will to choose. Heros don't accept the way the world is."
Excellent video! If any Angel fan wants to know what happens to Angel and the group after that final scene in the alley way in the last episode, then I highly suggest reading After the Fall. It's one of the greatest comic book series I've ever read, and it continues the show (it's basically season 6) as if it were written by the series' best writers. Believe me, you won't regret it.
"Right is right, regardless of its futility" -- that's so beautiful, thank you.
watched Angel cause of Cordelia
Lmao same
I think Cordy was definitely the heart of the group in Angel. It was great to see her develop from a shallow Sunnydale High into a wise young woman of Angel Investigations.
+get2rog i hated her character post conor. She turned into an evil, pseudo incestuous cradle robber psycho demon. Ummm give me back vapid cordy any day over that mess. In her final appearance we get her back... But it was too little too late.
+Elisheval we all hated that story, but it wasn't Cordy
+Elisheval everybody hated Season 4 Cordy, personally I've never seen a character so completely ruined. There was a lot of behind-the-scenes drama between her actress and Whedon, and they had to work around her suprise pregnancy (hence the weird Connor/Cordelia baby stuff), but they still could have done better.
Something that touches me as I rewatch the series. Both the real life actors who portrayed memorable characters (Doyle and Lorne) passed away.
Both Glenn Quinn and Andy Hallett performed magnificently in there roles and it’s their lasting impact as those characters than make this show even more memorable. Knowing that these were their last and best performances of their lives.
I can't wait for your Angel reviews. A few days ago I got my girlfriend to watch Buffy finally and now we're already up to season 3 since she can't stop watching it.
This is absolutely one of my favorite series. I'd say it's even better than Buffy the vampire slayer. The character development and how it handles deeply emotional, complex issues is phenomenal, as well as the pure creativity. But probably what I like the most about Angel is that it shows such a nuanced view on good vs evil, which the Buffy show just didn't quite manage.
That was wonderful. Angel was a very good show. I watched it when it came on TV and I literally sat awestruck through every commercial - of course I eventually yelled at my TV to hurry up, it never listens to me - just because Angel is such an interesting show.
I enjoyed the video. I wish I could've watched it sooner. It's officially one of my favs. I love your point of view and look. forward to more!
As I always say "Someone finally understands!"
I'm watching it through for the first time after catching stray episodes as a kid/teen, and when they moved into the Hyperion it really felt like "yeah, we're home" because most of what I saw was from later on
Angel will allways be better then buffy ever was.
To this day, one of the best TV series I've ever watched.
angel helped me deal with life my girlfriend died in the 2000s Wes story helped me deal with it so so much I cry still when she lies for him this is a great video if I do anything good in my life I have to thank joss ty for this
I could not have said it better Sir. I am so glad I found your channel. I would also say that "Smile Time" and "You're Welcome" are worth watching all of Angel in and of themselves. Don't even get me started on "Hole in the World" and "She'll" because I will start crying.
omggggggg 6:30, I cry every timeeeeeeeee. My poor heart :(
Another absolutely stunning line IMO was "Heroes don't accept the world for what it is." Never have. Never will.
Buffy and Angel are two of my favourite shows ever
I wish I could watch Angel for the first time again!! I started watching Buffy from the get go back in the day when you could only watch it at a certain time on normal TV, then this show Angel came on afterwards - I didn't know they were doing a spin-off and from the first episode I was hooked!! And until the end of both shows that was my regaulr night watching those back to back (except for season 5 naturally). I was and still am a bit heartbroken that the show finished early IMO, but man how good was Season 5 which is still to this day the greatest finish to any TV series.
Well, I'm off to watch Angel again!
WOW! That description of season 5 was Beautiful.
Angel was an excellent show and I believe it was cancelled because its story got a little too close to the truth. Metaphoricaly...think about it.
Good to have you back.
I love, love, love this video. You so elegantly summed up the entire soul of this show. I am very impressed! You made me tear up ;)
I love Angel waaaay more than I like Buffy. I watched Buffy but was never a big fan, but I loved Angel, and I've seen the show multiple times. Great video, thank you
You don't get to use Christophe Beck against us. You just don't
Oh man, I don't know if I can handle season 5 again. Angel may be my favourite show of all time
I.... think I'm in love with you
Reading the comments I am glad I'm not alone in this, this channel is so good, so good. Every time you post a video, it brightens my day. Plus, the list of spin-offs you posted as an example of unsuckyness seriously makes me think you are actually some sort of telepathic alien that has stolen my brain, and used it better than I've ever had.
"A thing is not beautiful because it lasts."
Why must you hurt me?
I was considering an Angel rewatch, and you've convinced me. Totally agree with everything you said.
i cried. again watching this channel
+Galina Di Would you like me to lie to you now?
“You know how you try to save every single person in the world? Did it ever occur to you that you’re one of them?” This single quote that I heard in another youtube video made me watch this show.
I loved Buffy, but never could get into Angel when it originally debuted. Because I enjoy your episode guides for Buffy so much, I decided to give Angel another shot. I was just about convinced that my first impression was correct when I reached the episode where Faith showed up in L.A. Now i'm curious enough to watch a few more...I particularly liked Angel essentially telling Buffy to grow up and accept that she's not the center of his universe anymore.
+J Will On my rewatch of Angel to make this video I think I decided that its better to binge Angel than to watch it "properly" inline with Buffy Seasons 4-7 - especially if you kind of struggle to get into it. It has a vastly different rhythm than Buffy and I got into it much more easily without hot swapping back and forth between episodes.
+J Will That said definitely soldier on. The Faith stuff is great. Season 1 is dry. The show finds its footing a bit better in 2.
+Passion of the Nerd Yeah...watching it in real time 15 years ago it just didn't resonate while Buffy was still putting out new shows, so I think you're probably right about just watching straight through.
+J Will Yep. BTVS had had 3 years to find its voice when Angel started. It really isn't a fair season by season comparison.
+Passion of the Nerd Ok, I finally threw in the towel. I LOVED Buffy, but Angel? Eesh...the only way I've been able to get through it is by treating the entire series (to use your words) as a "maguffin filled candy series." And, I guess since we're talking about watching a show that's (at least on the surface) about a vampire detective agency, that's ok.
Reason to watch "Angel": generally very well-executed, modern, fantasy film noir with time out for humor.
Aaaargh why would you use Remembering Jenny for the last portion of the video?! I only just marathon'd Angel seasons 4&5 a couple of months ago so the feels are still fresh. Great video.
+Daniel Young (conchashima) I know right? Every time i hear that piece of score, it makes me well up! That Christophe Beck is a genius!
+Daniel Young (conchashima) Because for certain morbid reasons, that song is as much Angel's as it is Giles' and Jenny's. And thank you.
+Passion of the Nerd Oh I know. I meant it in an "I'm now curled up crying because of it, how could you" way haha. Thank YOU.
I just love the setting of Buffy and Angel. Along the side of World of Darkness, and the Secret World, Buffyverse is one of the most fleshed out and cool supernatural mythologies.
i cant watch Buffy or Angel without thinking all the sad moments D:
Totally agree with your analysis. The way that you transmited the concepts and ideas that the show presents to the audience is remarkable. Clearly, you undertanded all that the series as to offer. Congrats!
Angel seasons 1, 2, and 3 made me laugh and kept me invested.
Season 4 was absolute guttertrash and an insult towards all the actors
Season 5 had all the makings of a show that should have been continued, but fucking networks, what can ya do. Smile Time was one of the best episodes ever, while ANY episode with Fred and later Illeria just completed messed me up =[
Not only was Angel an underrated show, but it was better than many other movies and TV shows about vampires. Better than all Dracula's versions, better than The Vampire Diaries, better than True Blood, better than Blade, better than Van Helsing, better than the Underworld saga, better than that rubbish Twilight. It's simply the most meaningful, darkest, and most badass vampire production that has ever existed.
Hey, Ian's back at it! Hi Ian!
So when you took your break I had not seen a single episode of Angel. I was saving it in a way, like an unopened box of candy. But after your break, at some point I decided to crack it open and I've seen the whole thing now.
It's so very difficult to put into words, just as you described. Buffy is undoubtedly funnier, the individual characters stand out more, the journey feels more personal. But I almost feel like, and most obviously by season 5, that the writers KNEW that and deliberately incorporated it into both the broader arc and the philosophy of the show, and I'll try to explain why.
With Buffy, everything revolves around her being the Slayer, her being so special. Everyone's lives are affected by it, by how she does it or doesn't do it, how they support her or don't, and the role she plays in the greater scheme of things. The show contains some hard lessons, but it's ultimately always got a strong element of wish fulfillment to it because of that.
If Angel is a show about being an adult, one of the hardest things to accept about being an adult is the reality that you may not be as special as you thought you were, that you may not matter that much in the scheme of things. That you can do everything right and work your whole life at doing something good and still have it come out to nothing, because the essential nature of things is set against your attempts to make it better. It's a horrible, tragic idea that most of us try not to think about in our daily lives, and it's either implied or on several occasions explicitly stated to Angel and his friends through the entire show.
They deny it, defy it, make quips about it, do all sorts of heroic things to doggedly oppose this notion and, in the end, we're left to assume they go to their deaths defying it. It IS noble, and inspiring, but it's also so radically different from Buffy.
Buffy's always important, always the center of not only the show but of the whole battle of good versus evil. Whatever happens to her is significant, win or lose, and being the focal point in such a way reflects a certain youthful idealism. Despite Angel's stated importance as a key figure in a coming apocalypse, he's nothing like her. And you never get the sense in Buffy that she and her friends may simply be steamrolled by the world and forgotten like you do in Angel, where they could all die and the world would just keep turning and all that would have mattered is what they did while they could, and what they were to each other.
That's something adults have to accept, and it's a much bleaker and more poignant reality that's only revealed very gradually, through the longer, more involved arcs and ethos of the show. It makes everything that happens in the fifth season more meaningful, more tragic, more heartbreaking, and I feel only makes it's full impact when you've taken in the series in it's entirety.
+Skizane I think you were a bit harsh on BtVS here (Season 6 is ALL ABOUT the idea that Buffy herself doesn't matter, for example), but it's a really good analysis of Angel. Kudos.
+Guy R Thank you kind sir. :)
I stumbled upon your channel by accident and Angel being one of my favourite ever shows growing up I had to watch this video. You have summarised this show better than I have ever seen it summarised. I look forward to further content thankyou. I'm going to re-watch it now :)
Angel season 4 is my favourite season of either show, yes i know, i am in a minority of 1.
As always thank you for doing this, lt is my favourite RUclips channel.
+Mark Fudge No shame in that game. On the rewatch I did to make this, Season 4 grew on me considerably now that I was properly prepped for the Cordelia situation.
Passion of the Nerd In my head She never came back, she was an empty vessel. I love the juxta position of the 'big bad' being all about peace and love. As a moral argument of is happy slavery better than unhappy freedom.
the fourth season is also my favorite
I'm so glad more is coming!
This video gave me goosebumps. I need to do an Angel re-watch...like *NOW*! It truly is a great show. Although I feel like a weirdo b/c S4 is by far my favorite. I *love* how serialized it is, where each episode begins where the previous left off. The whole season is like one long episode, and it's a roller coaster ride! And S5 is actually my 2nd least fav after S1. Although there are some parts that are absolutely brilliant, there are other parts that are like an absolute trainwreck :\ But anyhoo, great job! No one could have given a more convincing argument to watch Angel :)
defrostedrobot77 Oopsies. You're right. Thanks I'll correct that now :)
As an arc I didn't mind that season, but it's the whole possessed Cordelia thing that's a turnoff.
Totally agree. I loved season 4 I'm shocked many people dislike it I don't understand. so exciting it was the height of the angel series. season 5 was a step backward. Altho I still love it
Possessed Cordy was really my biggest beef as well. I didn't *hate* season 4 -- there were some excellent episodes (and more Faith!) -- but of the five seasons, it's my least favorite. It was easy to tell that season that Joss was trying to juggle three shows at once (this was when Firefly was on the air).
It's years away but can't wait for your summaries and analysis of season 5! Fond memories..
+JonW You never know. I might be approached by a rich patron, who backs me doing this fulltime. Most likely though yeah we're a couple years off.
Damn this whole show brings on the tears... why did I watch this? *spoilers* Now I want to re-watch Buffy+Angel, but also don't because it's so damned heart-wrenching. Damn you Joss Whedon, damn you! Why Fred? Take Tara, take Doyle but not Fred!
This is probably my favourite video you've made to date. Great job buddy! I'm loving your dedication to the Whedonverse :) it definitely had a huge impact on me when I was younger.