Thanks Mark, great insight as always! interesting data...I am die hard Callaway, upgrading my Razr X Tour irons this winter...I have tested XR Pro and really like them, but the data on the new Apex, like you just presented, has me thinking I may have to give them a try!
I had a combo set of the previous gen Apex irons and loved them. If a stronger player wanted to play the CF16 could they not just adjust their set? Say I normally carry 4-P in the AP2 could I not just go 5-A in the CF16 and get essentially the same results from either set?
Great review & comparo. I thought I wanted the new AP2s, but after hitting them back-to-back with the new AP1s and my old PING G-20s, I think the new 716 AP1s are the better club for me.
Good review and comparison, thoughtful as always. Nice to have Steve's input as well to show different results for differing swing speeds. Have you had the opportunity to try the Wilson FG V4. Would be nice to see how the V4's compare.
Thanks for your honest reviews which helps me decide on gaming these clubs. Have you gamed the Apex and what are your comments on how the clubs play on the course.
Mark, can you please do a comparison of the apex pro iron to the ap2? I think this would be a more apples to apples comparison as would the apex to ap1... Very interested to see your thoughts on these. As always, thanks for your videos!
I could not hit the 714 Ap2 irons for shit (inconsistent) where as I found the previous model Apex irons were brilliant. I will be very interested to try the new models to see if the trend continues.
Great review most helpful Mark. I tried both as well as the Mizuno JPX. Fell in love with the Apex, great feel/sound. wasn't as consistant with the AP2 (maybe not as forgiving with my inconsisntancies) also found out I needed non-standard lie - Who knew. Get properly fitted guys.
Just went for a shaft fitting to change my AP2 irons from 950GH regular flex (LOL) to the PXi 5.5. They gave me this CF 16 head because they didn't have an ap2 in that shaft for me to try. The lofts on the 7 are 31 and my ap2 loft is 34. But when I hit my ap2 with the 950gh in a 7 iron it did its usual high spinny 145 yards. When they handed me the CF 16 with the PXi 5.5 shaft I hit it 167 yards... which seems in line with the distances you got with the same club head. was interested to see that the loft difference really only accounts for less than 10 yards, maybe closer to 6 yards difference. Did the new shaft really add almost 20 yards? Would love to hear what you think about my experience.
Mark, so if we just go strictly by loft (basically the same, CF16 31* AP2 30*) and ignore the stamped iron # on bottom. Couldn't we say the apex wins for Steve since its producing better #'s? I mean we're basically comparing two 6 irons really. I am a bit surprised by your #'s though. You'd think based off steve's the CF would perform better, again just comparing lofts. Just curious what shaft was in the CF16 when tested?
Enjoyed the review as always. Personally getting a bit frustrated with manufacturers, too much choice with clubs upgraded too often. For instance where does the apex fit against the XR pro in the range? I've been put off changing my old mizuno bats because I don't know where to start and for me it's a lot of money to spend to make a mistake. I would like to get fitted but I feel that I am starting with about 20 different irons with the big manufacturers apparently offering 2 or 3 in a range that do the same thing. Would love a bit more honesty and a lot less hype.
I think you mentioned that the apex go higher but have less spin. What causes the club to be high launching but little spin? Enjoy the videos parfield!
Hi mark, im 19 and have been watching your videos for a few years and now want a new set of irons, i have a handicap of 22 and was just wondering what clubs you would recommend, love the videos, keep up the good work
Go to a shop and try a few out. You don't have to buy them. I didn't have a clue until I had a fitting and tried virtually all irons on the shelves. Ones you think you will like you may try and then think they feel crap. Go try some out.
+Alex Killpack You probably have irons that are poorly fitted for you. Getting new irons that are fitted will likely take strokes off your game. Look at the Ping line...particularly the GMax line. They have the best fitting system and philosophy in all of golf. Don't let anyone tell you differently. G my Max. PING is the THING.
Mark how much would you argue you need that extra 800 revs of spin. It would only stop it 2/3 yards quicker on normal greens. Surely the distance gain is worth the small control loss on landing?
+Combobulate You have to ask yourself why you need a distance gain? I want my 7-iron to go 160-165 yards, if I pick one up that goes 175, I don't see that as an improvement.
+Combobulate Certainly as Crossfield says, it's all about what's right for your game. Buzza wouldn't want that feeling of that the ball may be 'out of control' in the air, that's not a good feeling to have stood over the ball, and it may play havoc with his gaps in his bag anyway. But for Crossfield, the extra distance may appeal to him personally, and it fits his game quite well, but as he also says he wants to be in control, so would be monitoring that spin rate closely, because if he's bounding through Greens, that would be no good for his game. Also take into the consideration what types of Course the individual plays on. For me personally, who plays almost totally on Links Courses, to be bounding through hard Links Greens in the Summer because I can't get enough spin on my approaches would be disaster for my game. But if you play on soft greens, then going with the stronger lofted lower spinning Clubs like the Apex, may well suit fine. Horses for Courses, as Crossfield says go try, but be honest with your game and where you play, and on't be sucked into the distance gains of stronger lofted clubs if it's going to damage your game.
It's the mental thing jag. Like it or not a 7i going 160 is mentally easier to green than 6i, in my head anyway! I'm questioning the effect of that extra spin, is it worth it at our level or is it ego?using fs optimiser or optimal flight shows that you only get a few yards benefit (take your point on links but that is golf tuff). It feels like cheating using these bats but if my life depended on my score think I'd know which way I'd go. Pretty would go outta the window and functional every time
They go so much higher as well so when they land super soft they sit right where they land. This is NOT a problem at all, so long as ur playing a Titleist ball that will do its part as well.
How come in a low spin driver they say you have to loft up, but when they have a low spin iron they say they have to loft down. #smokeandmirrors or different issues at the two ends of the bag?
Love watching your videos mark and your app that's purchased years ago. I have never asked for a video on a specific subject but I'm going to ask now... I'm a 8 handicap(sent you my swing a couple times through the app) my coach tells me I have a boring ball flight, I don't get much spin and I have a power ball flight. So my question has to do with fairway woods, I'm looking for the easier ones to hit high off the deck. I have heard the Adams blue line or tight lies line are good ones but not good off there's because the face is small from the sole to the crown which is cool with me. Can u do a video listing they'll fairway woods that are easiest to hit higher from off the deck based off of the design of the club. Hope this makes sense. Thanks parfield. Btw what ever happened to James diamond?
If I had to play golf for money, It would have to be the AP2. If I was going to wow people on the range it would be the Apex. But golf is played on-course.
"We had no choice, we put soooooo much weight on the bottom and the ball just went waaaaaaay to high. So we absolutely HAD TO decrease the loft. I mean what else could we do? #Bullocks
when people complain that it goes too high and spins a lot but you lose distance, surely you could just use more club. These high launch, high control clubs would be perfect if golfers didn't have egos bigger than America and decide that a 7 iron must go an extra ten yards even though you are actually hitting a 6 iron and hitting it wayward because of the decreased loft.
the ago old argument I have with people..u can hit irons TOO FAR.....I don't have that problem but I still don't like cranking my iron lofts as I lose some spin and my 6 iron won't spin enough to hold the green...if u want to hit ur 6 iron further than u currently do then just use a 5 iron??? golf is a game of control. sure power is an advantage but without good control it can also be a hindrance.
I like both you and Buzza's reviewing; great addition
like seeing the two of you comparing clubs showing difference between speeds etc
one day when I buy a new set of irons, these will be the 2 tested. Really like both of them
Thanks Mark, great insight as always! interesting data...I am die hard Callaway, upgrading my Razr X Tour irons this winter...I have tested XR Pro and really like them, but the data on the new Apex, like you just presented, has me thinking I may have to give them a try!
Will you ever compare the apex pro 16 vs ap2 716
I had a combo set of the previous gen Apex irons and loved them. If a stronger player wanted to play the CF16 could they not just adjust their set? Say I normally carry 4-P in the AP2 could I not just go 5-A in the CF16 and get essentially the same results from either set?
Great review & comparo. I thought I wanted the new AP2s, but after hitting them back-to-back with the new AP1s and my old PING G-20s, I think the new 716 AP1s are the better club for me.
Hey Mark when you get your hands on the PSI forged irons; you should compare it to the ap2
Will do and check out my PSi review already.
Good review and comparison, thoughtful as always. Nice to have Steve's input as well to show different results for differing swing speeds. Have you had the opportunity to try the Wilson FG V4. Would be nice to see how the V4's compare.
Thanks for your honest reviews which helps me decide on gaming these clubs. Have you gamed the Apex and what are your comments on how the clubs play on the course.
Glad they help.
Mark, can you please do a comparison of the apex pro iron to the ap2? I think this would be a more apples to apples comparison as would the apex to ap1... Very interested to see your thoughts on these. As always, thanks for your videos!
Mark can you compare the mp25s and the 716 ap2
I could not hit the 714 Ap2 irons for shit (inconsistent) where as I found the previous model Apex irons were brilliant. I will be very interested to try the new models to see if the trend continues.
Great review most helpful Mark. I tried both as well as the Mizuno JPX. Fell in love with the Apex, great feel/sound. wasn't as consistant with the AP2 (maybe not as forgiving with my inconsisntancies) also found out I needed non-standard lie - Who knew. Get properly fitted guys.
Just went for a shaft fitting to change my AP2 irons from 950GH regular flex (LOL) to the PXi 5.5. They gave me this CF 16 head because they didn't have an ap2 in that shaft for me to try. The lofts on the 7 are 31 and my ap2 loft is 34. But when I hit my ap2 with the 950gh in a 7 iron it did its usual high spinny 145 yards. When they handed me the CF 16 with the PXi 5.5 shaft I hit it 167 yards... which seems in line with the distances you got with the same club head. was interested to see that the loft difference really only accounts for less than 10 yards, maybe closer to 6 yards difference. Did the new shaft really add almost 20 yards? Would love to hear what you think about my experience.
Would weakening the lofts on the apex increase the spin and make them a bit more 'playable'?
Mark, so if we just go strictly by loft (basically the same, CF16 31* AP2 30*) and ignore the stamped iron # on bottom. Couldn't we say the apex wins for Steve since its producing better #'s? I mean we're basically comparing two 6 irons really. I am a bit surprised by your #'s though. You'd think based off steve's the CF would perform better, again just comparing lofts.
Just curious what shaft was in the CF16 when tested?
Do you have a video where you test the Apex Pro's?
Enjoyed the review as always. Personally getting a bit frustrated with manufacturers, too much choice with clubs upgraded too often. For instance where does the apex fit against the XR pro in the range? I've been put off changing my old mizuno bats because I don't know where to start and for me it's a lot of money to spend to make a mistake. I would like to get fitted but I feel that I am starting with about 20 different irons with the big manufacturers apparently offering 2 or 3 in a range that do the same thing. Would love a bit more honesty and a lot less hype.
I think you mentioned that the apex go higher but have less spin. What causes the club to be high launching but little spin? Enjoy the videos parfield!
Hi mark, im 19 and have been watching your videos for a few years and now want a new set of irons, i have a handicap of 22 and was just wondering what clubs you would recommend, love the videos, keep up the good work
Go to a shop and try a few out. You don't have to buy them. I didn't have a clue until I had a fitting and tried virtually all irons on the shelves. Ones you think you will like you may try and then think they feel crap. Go try some out.
+Sam Hatton thank you mate
Yeah i will take your advise on board and grab a few lessons before i jump in to buying some new clubs, thanks mate
+Alex Killpack You probably have irons that are poorly fitted for you. Getting new irons that are fitted will likely take strokes off your game. Look at the Ping line...particularly the GMax line. They have the best fitting system and philosophy in all of golf. Don't let anyone tell you differently. G my Max. PING is the THING.
what shafts were in them?
Mark how much would you argue you need that extra 800 revs of spin. It would only stop it 2/3 yards quicker on normal greens. Surely the distance gain is worth the small control loss on landing?
+Combobulate You have to ask yourself why you need a distance gain? I want my 7-iron to go 160-165 yards, if I pick one up that goes 175, I don't see that as an improvement.
+Combobulate Certainly as Crossfield says, it's all about what's right for your game. Buzza wouldn't want that feeling of that the ball may be 'out of control' in the air, that's not a good feeling to have stood over the ball, and it may play havoc with his gaps in his bag anyway. But for Crossfield, the extra distance may appeal to him personally, and it fits his game quite well, but as he also says he wants to be in control, so would be monitoring that spin rate closely, because if he's bounding through Greens, that would be no good for his game. Also take into the consideration what types of Course the individual plays on. For me personally, who plays almost totally on Links Courses, to be bounding through hard Links Greens in the Summer because I can't get enough spin on my approaches would be disaster for my game. But if you play on soft greens, then going with the stronger lofted lower spinning Clubs like the Apex, may well suit fine. Horses for Courses, as Crossfield says go try, but be honest with your game and where you play, and on't be sucked into the distance gains of stronger lofted clubs if it's going to damage your game.
+JAG sixtyfive grtgugffj
It's the mental thing jag. Like it or not a 7i going 160 is mentally easier to green than 6i, in my head anyway! I'm questioning the effect of that extra spin, is it worth it at our level or is it ego?using fs optimiser or optimal flight shows that you only get a few yards benefit (take your point on links but that is golf tuff). It feels like cheating using these bats but if my life depended on my score think I'd know which way I'd go. Pretty would go outta the window and functional every time
They go so much higher as well so when they land super soft they sit right where they land. This is NOT a problem at all, so long as ur playing a Titleist ball that will do its part as well.
hey mark love the channel have a question how can I send you a video so I could get some help with my game
thanks Steve
I'm sure in terms of marketing it'd be much better to add "vs" in between the two iron names in the title
How come in a low spin driver they say you have to loft up, but when they have a low spin iron they say they have to loft down. #smokeandmirrors or different issues at the two ends of the bag?
Can you please review the new Wilson Staff FG TOUR F5 irons (Forged irons). They were just released.
Love to see the review.
Enjoyed your review. Can I suggest you breathe out 2/3's of your breath before you take the club back? Have you ever tried this?
Love watching your videos mark and your app that's purchased years ago. I have never asked for a video on a specific subject but I'm going to ask now... I'm a 8 handicap(sent you my swing a couple times through the app) my coach tells me I have a boring ball flight, I don't get much spin and I have a power ball flight. So my question has to do with fairway woods, I'm looking for the easier ones to hit high off the deck. I have heard the Adams blue line or tight lies line are good ones but not good off there's because the face is small from the sole to the crown which is cool with me. Can u do a video listing they'll fairway woods that are easiest to hit higher from off the deck based off of the design of the club. Hope this makes sense. Thanks parfield. Btw what ever happened to James diamond?
By boring are you sure he doesn't just mean you're very consistent
+Combobulate maybe that's what he meant, but he said boring= low spin.
+Adam Boerger Boring ball flight means flat, as in it bores through the air rather than ballooning up.
+Clay Fleming would u consider that a good thing to have a boring flight?
+Adam Boerger why don't you ask the person you had the lesson with!
I don't get how can someone hits it too far? can't they just adjust and hit lesser club?
Compare mp-25 to the AP2s please
If I had to play golf for money, It would have to be the AP2. If I was going to wow people on the range it would be the Apex. But golf is played on-course.
Mark, what are the "dots" on the face of the AP2??
Great vids!! Keep up the good work.
It has to do with the dopler system he uses (Tracman)
it is for checking head movement of club on impact, not for the ball, in GC2.
hey mark could you do a review on Honma golf clubs
"We had no choice, we put soooooo much weight on the bottom and the ball just went waaaaaaay to high. So we absolutely HAD TO decrease the loft. I mean what else could we do? #Bullocks
Noticed you dispersion is a bit right on the ap2's there mark. Is that you or the club?
8:23 dey do d'oh don't dey d'oh
Your dispersion so much better with Apex. Good argument for jacked lofts?
Dispersion is me.
You must have felt comfortable with them though as its very tight
when people complain that it goes too high and spins a lot but you lose distance, surely you could just use more club. These high launch, high control clubs would be perfect if golfers didn't have egos bigger than America and decide that a 7 iron must go an extra ten yards even though you are actually hitting a 6 iron and hitting it wayward because of the decreased loft.
the ago old argument I have with people..u can hit irons TOO FAR.....I don't have that problem but I still don't like cranking my iron lofts as I lose some spin and my 6 iron won't spin enough to hold the green...if u want to hit ur 6 iron further than u currently do then just use a 5 iron??? golf is a game of control. sure power is an advantage but without good control it can also be a hindrance.
I just brought these irons and they feel great. I don't think they go any further than my x22 irons to be honest. but they feel great.
Mark can u please stop talking when you are over the ball 😂
The Partuza boy in the beard..I hit them too far. Listen dude I am a 6 handicap have the Apex and too far is a good thing chumley!!!!
those titleist are not pretty... that's just my opinion
+Danielsan Agreed. I have the 714's and think they look WAY better
+Greg Brittain I agree with the looks but after hitting both I think the 716 ap2s out performs it's 714 counterpart
Where did you find the homeless man who can also do club reviews???
# Callaway magic wands #coach me up