My take is boxing has been branded as a sport for decades. To most uneducated people, they prefer a "deadly" fighting art "for za streetz" rather than learning "a sport". That's why japanese/chinese TMA that came later usually involve with McDojo rather than famous martial arts that's already available in the west
I had a friend who said the same thing. The more it focuses on sparring, the more reality based it is. Boxing, wrestling, and kickboxing are grounded for this reason.
We need to remember that training stamina in a sporting competition is befitting in an arena where a contest is prolonged to entertain an audience....But in a streetfight we try to finish off life threatening danger as quickly as possible so ECONOMY of motion becomes more of a priority...This is not being dictated by TRADITION in Martial arts at all. But by PRACTICAL considerations tailored for an environment more dangerous than a sporting competition....TMA doesn't merely program fixed movements which dont involve any pressure training...You can get people to come at you with pressure with safety equipment on & go for decisive targets...Obviously people trained in MMA would have greater endurance than a lay person in the street but if the danger is worse they should not try to prolong the outcome as if it were a sports contest because with the danger of weapons, pack attacks and multiple opponents they might not have that option...Also MMA fighters muscle memory on autopilot is conditioned to AVOID eyes, knees and groin...I agree the comments on Boxing being much more intensive a sparring environment than MOST TMA dojos but I think the esoteric unrehearsed Basketball movements analogy might be a LITTLE unfair to TMAs ...lol ...Very funny though....Thats an interesting analogy between Classical Ballet and TMA because as in classical ballet TMA tends to be ORNAMENTAL rather than practical functional......But I'd be careful Ramsey about comparing modern dance with combat Sports because IRON MIKE could get really homicidally STROPPY about it chum.......lol
@@carllubrin8518 just google it and it looks pretty cool. But i guess the Philippinos are more famous with Kali stick/sword/knife combat so this martial art got overshadowed
I love how boxing enviroment "forces" you to prove yourself, there's no rank system like belt colour or stuff like that, if you're good at boxing then you have to prove it in the ring
usually have a novice fight pretty early in your journey just the sparing Against your team mates your almost full contact very very early especially if there are few boys at your level at your home gym and everyone ones end game is to fight at a big event not for self defence
It's an approach that is very intimidating for newcomers, though. There would probably be more people who knew basic boxing technique and appreciated it if they didn't think that joining a boxing gym required them to fight.
I actually threw 8 imagined basketballs through an also imagined basket while watching this video. I was promoted to a "9th degree black shoelace" and "Grandmaster of Shadowbasketball" for this. But maybe I just imagined that too.
Well, sometimes that approach can produce real results. For example, I imagined that I had sex with Angelina Jolie. After we 'finished', I had to change my underwear for real.
Imho the key to learn how to fight, is to get hurt :D eventually, you will learn how to block or dodge, and THEN you learned how to fight. Throwing punches and kicks etc doesnt mean that person can actually fight. You dont even need proper punching or kicking techniques in order to win a fight. Dodge doge dodge and at some point your enemy is tired enough that u can just bash him with the butt of a fist over and over till he dont move anymore and then you won the fight. Also you need ability and understanding of the other persons style in order to anticipate how to respond in a split second. And getting hurt teaches you that skill.
@@Saiko_PATH Yes dodge, dodge, dodge it's that easy!!🤦 Life is just like the matrix. If you don't spar and train on the regular you are getting lit up in a fight, that simple.
It's not McDojo if they don't sell themselves as self-defense but for fitness only. It says right in the name: "cardio", meaning it's for fitness only.
Oh, man. You see it from time to time. Watch guys get ABSOLUTELY WASHED in the ring. Faking Karate, kung fu, or TKD is like faking a dead language. No one speaks latin, so no one will notice when you mess up the conjugation or syntax or whatever.
@@acutefailure1 sometimes they do both faking the martial art and the language just because it's an foreign art that nobody bother to translate names of the moves, i've seen a karate mcdojo near my highschool faking a kata name with some gibberish word that sounded like japanese My highschool have japanese as compulsory subject, so it was pretty funny when i heard some serious dude saying some gibberish word that sounded japanese to his student and nobody is trying to think "is this real japanese word?" Or trying to translate it, like wtf dude is it so hard to use atleast simple google translate to create some bs hombrew kata name?
@@acutefailure1 well i'm more "flying apple swiping banana" kata fan, but seriously those people were the only one who can get away with something that equivalent of saying "chingchong" to a chinese person
That's interesting. In Jack Dempsey's book "Championship Fighting" he mentions something about how there are coaches who just teach people to score points and wait out the bell. So to him there was a clear distinction between true fighting and only trying to win a sport.
I was gonna make this point in a separate comment but i will do it here. Even if what you've said is true you still have to defend vs a commited attacker most of the time so it's still closer to a real fight than most sportified TMA like karate and TKD. With the latter you can be a world class athlete and still get smoked in a real confrontation. Because their ruleset isn't that representative of that scenario. With modern martial arts that is not a problem. A punch in the face in the ring is virtually the same on da streetz. So while getting ready for the sport of boxing can help you in a self defense or street fight scenario the same can't be said about point karate or TKD.
There's many different boxing styles. Amateur boxing may be more in line with a points scoring system because of how the fight scores are calculated but even scoring points can be difficult to achieve in a fight and may not necessarily win the fight depending on the judges. However fighting using this style is no less of an accomplishment than fighting to knock out an opponent. When there's millions of dollars involved in only trying to win at sport then it takes on a different dimension in the same way when fighting to stop the killing of a loved one. Both situations will bring out differing emotions to different people.
getting jabbed in the face and being unable to hit back is still fighting. These jabs hurt. Also outside boxing is the part that works best in MMA as well.
Hey Ramsay Over here in the uk we have stuff like boxercise classes taking place at mainstream fitness gyms A lot of people think they are doing legitimate boxing based training and the gyms portray theses classes as such They are not it’s total nonsense If you don’t skip and don’t spar then I don’t believe you are doing anything that can use the word box in its description Mike 47 years Muay Thai of training/coaching
I can confirm it's the same case in Italy, fun fact I started kickboxing in mainstream gym, didn't learn almost anything, then transitioned to a legit boxing gym, and they had the same coach, he was a high profile name, but he just didn't care enough of the mainstream gym, two complete different approaches.
I don't think that people believe they are doing boxing when they do boxercise. Otherwise why would it be called boxercise? Boxercise is recognised as fitness training incorporating boxing movements such as punching. Boxing is, well, boxing. People that want to learn to box will probably go to an affiliated amateur boxing gym and can then participate in a boxing class. Even boxing gyms run boxercise classes as it can be a additional and valuable source of income and a way to introduce people that are otherwise not interested in boxing or do not feel confident enough to try to maybe give it a go. Boxercise classes are an excellent way of getting other people interested in boxing. Even if 10% of participants in these classes become interested in boxing the result is that you have grown the sport which is what you need to keep the sport going and kept in the mainstream otherwise it just becomes a fad. Please remember that boxing is not just a sport, it is a business and boxing gyms are not always subsidised in the UK. I'd love to have a boxercise class at my local gym as my nearest boxing gym is miles away and I'm too old/injured to really want to go through the rigours of boxing training again.
I used to do that, it was good exercise and I could do it on school time. They didn't market it as genuine boxing, and I hope none of the other classgoers thought it was.
Seizu Akahoshi yeah, I could see them making arguments like: “This full contact Krav Maga championship is watered down, I would kill these guys if I competed.”
1:19 That is exactly how most commercial Boxing Gyms work. It depends on who you ask if Boxing is still as effective or pure as it once was, as you know from reading Jack Dempsey's book. There are a lot of white collar people out there that pay high dollar for these kinds of Gyms, and they may even "Spar" with visiting pros who get paid to honestly just carry and play with them, and let them feel like they can hold their own in a ring. When they're really only better than garbage as you said in a previous video. In competition these Gyms often try to put their students up against soft touches or use their students as feeder fish for more serious trainers to pad their fighters' records. MMA Gyms are everywhere in almost every small town here in the states, but Boxing gyms are much harder to come by and good ones are even rarer still. As for skipping Rope, most successful Champions and Trainers I know of from the older 1-2 Belt eras say that you should do no more than 2 rounds of skipping, and anything more than 2 or 3 miles of roadwork a day is excessive and requires longer time off to recover. Most of them admit that you can, and that they often did exchange roadwork completely for more hours in the gym sparring, shadow Boxing and working the different bags, and some occasional or regular long walks and sprinting. Excessively long roadwork is one way that some fighters focus and isolate themselves for a "War" mindset as Marvelous Marvin Hagler put it, but really it's mostly present because so many fighters let themselves get comically out of shape through yoyo crash dieting.
It's interesting that you would use basketball as an example here because, at least to some extent, the quality of play is actually suppressed by "tradition." There was a somewhat famous example on Girls Highschool Basketball from about a decade ago where the coach of a known weak team opted to use a sabermetric like analytical approach to the game. He realized that the best option his team had was to constantly employ a somewhat antiquated tactic called a "Full Court Press." His theory was that his team wasn't good enough to compete with modern manup or zone defense, so his goal was to make moving the ball up the court enough of a battle that they could get turnovers by draining the shot clock. Ultimately it proved to be very effective (although physically demanding and thus not optimized for star shooters). They managed to make it to nationals but the refs started calling sportsmanship fouls on them because the game they were playing didn't look enough like basketball. This type of "the way the game's supposed to be" mentality bleeds into NBA level play too. Until recently, when the Warriors started proving conventional wisdom wrong, the 3 point shot was drastically undervalued and thus if you were an aspiring pro player you would have been coached to transition your game away from it. Again, it was statistical analysis that allowed this tradition to be broken, not just players naturally improving the quality of play.
About 7 years ago, I went to check out a title boxing gym that was close to where I worked. Short story long; it was basically a boxing themed Zumba class. There was no sparring allowed at all and no focus on technique, timing, reflexes etc.
@@Hatingonyall2023 so that makes them a real dojo and not a mcdojo? I disagree with you. They're barely even mcdojo lol You'll never win a fight on tae bo
Fist of all, boxing doesn't have colored belts. People enter a boxing gym to learn how to box and people enter a karatê dojo to get a Black belt, not to learn proper karatê. They assume, when they begin training, that a Black belt = fighting ability. If there is a demand, someone will provide what people want. People want to be considered fighters, but do not want to fight. People are deceived because they want to be deceived. I'm a shotokan karatê 4th Dan and I have a hard time to keep students (and even trainning partners), who often migrate to other instrutors as they can progress more quickly and with less bruising. I have a long love/hate relationship with karatê. I absolutely love karatê, but I hate its enviroment, its grading system, etc.
The belt system is the best and worst innovation of kano / funakoshi. I think the problem is that the colour of your belt is read as reflecting your fighting ability. If that were the case, you'd be demoted as you got older, not promoted. Actually I think belt levels can represent cumulative personal development. Even at that, the lure of belt advancement would probably still exert too big an influence over many practitioners.
As many have pointed out, there are boxercise classes at regular gyms. There is also the explosion of boutique gyms which operate entirely on group classes. One of them here is what i suppose you could call boxing themed hiit. Based on their marketing and their pricing structure, i would be tempted to call it a boxing mcdojo.
I’ve been in a boxing mcdojo before, it was basically a fitness class with some guy who knew the very basics of boxing, and at the end we did 10 minutes on a bag and 5 minutes of ‘sparring’
The basketball analogy was freaking hilarious... a secret basketball master out there teaching basketball like movements without having the students actually PLAY basketball 😂😂😂 that's so true tho
Hahahaha.... Kungfu nuts literally have not a single person alive that can prove the effectiveness of their art, and we all fell for that nonsense years ago.
@@mrt445 most of the techniques you have learned and you think is "oh it's an mma technique !!!" has a high chance that it has roots from kung fu (it is not an MMA technique because MMA is MIXED martial arts !!!!!!). so yes, in a way, mma fighters are kung fu fighters, if they use an orthodox style. kung fu in a way is mixed martial arts, but indirectly, because they explored every way the human body can possibly move in a fight, so at that point, it's just human martial arts, a complete martial art. modern sports are very young, while kung fu had more than 2,000 years to develop
The closest thing to "fake boxing" are boxfit classes but then again boxfit are very transparent to what they offer- theyre just their to give one a good sweat in and the people who take those classes are aware of that and just there to sweat it out.
I think the shortest answer is that a fist fight in front of thousands of viewers who are paying to see a beat down is the ONLY way to get a belt in boxing. No one can *give* you a belt in boxing. Really like the basketball analogy, though.
"No no no, Ramsey Dewey. You have not answered my question. I would like to join a boxing McDojo, and I am genuinely wondering where to find a place where I can do 100% junk training and still convince my friends that I do boxing. Do you have any recommendations?"
I went to a boxing gym with some very mcdojo elements as they had no idea about different martial arts and different types of guards and more modern stances and told me that i couldnt do them because they didnt work, but i still learned how to box quite well from there because they still taught great boxing
There are "executive" boxing programs and "cardio" boxing schools that actually don't allow sparring, they are boxing McDojos. This would kill the sport of boxing if we started having heavy bag punching competitions where judges graded work on the heavy bag like they do ice skating.
Short answer; Business men. Being an asian man in the USA/Canada allows you to sell snake oil martial arts without question. It is ridiculous how rarely people actually look into what they are buying when it comes to Martial Arts.
Right on the money again! The boxing story was a very good analogy to show clearly to anyone why many martial arts were portrayed as the "best" self-defence to attract students, when in reality they had little to do (if any) with that since they didn't include any sparring. That was the mistake of many parents in the 80's % and 90's who sent their children to martial arts schools to learn how to protect themselves on the street which of course was a mistake but they didn't know any better. And the bs macdojos took advantage of their good will.
In Germany you can go to a pure boxing club for like 5-10€/6-12$ per month. Those are mostly oldschool boxing clubs, who work out and teach in school gyms, without fancy mat floors and cross fit area. Those clubs exist like 50 years, when boxing was a big sport in germany. If you want to go to a trendy or popular e.g. MMA or Kung Fu Gym, you can easily pay 50-100€/60-120$ per month.
Wow L H. That's a huge difference in cost. Maybe the boxing clubs are subsidised because boxing is an Olympic sport. My impression was that boxing was still quite popular in Germany. Both Klitschko brothers used to fight there regularly and fill stadiums with supporters until they retired and there have been many world champions from Germany recently including Sturm, Ottke, Brahmer, Abraham, Veit, Huck (these are the ones I can think of). I remember watching AJ v Klitschko with an old German couple who were very disappointed when Klitschko lost!! Best wishes.
So maybe I'm a bit delusioned, or have simply been extremely lucky, but I have tried a number of martial arts, and all of them have contained lots of sparring. I don't recall ever doing forms that weren't used frequently in sparring. HEMA especially had a lot of guard positions and "special cuts", but all of them were used in both sparring and competition. Sure there were a lot of running around, doing push-ups and stretching but as the coach said, none of that makes you a bad fighter. We did it to make us better at sparring, so we wouldn't gas out after a couple of minutes. And as for styles, the main thing that seemed to change was the rules. It was the same throws in Judo, HEMA and Capoeira, the same punches, guards and kicks in point karate as in kickboxing. Because that's what worked in sparring. The main difference was what guard stances you used, and those were heavily dependent on style. Point Karate didn't allow attacks to the head so you didn't guard it the same way you did in kickboxing. In HEMA obviously the sword was the main focus, punches and kicks didn't score points, so you didn't do those other as a distraction, but once you got within grappling range, it was the same throws I learned in Judo just with a sword as an added obstacle. Capoeira was the one that was the least like the others, sparring was more a dance performance than a no-risk fight. Even them, the throws and takedowns I learned was very much like the ones I remembered from Judo, and I came to use a few of them in HEMA sparring later on. I haven't done any groundfighting, something I hope to remedy soon when gyms and classes starts up now after the pandemic. Though I suspect there are a lot of similarities between BJJ and Wrestling as well.
Most don't mind getting hit and even the potential of getting hurt... It is getting hurt by a person that wants to hurt you every time you square off, is what is off putting. I will agree that until you have been hit, you will not know how to recover and move forward, it is receiving or giving a concussion everyday because it is a combat art that may not be healthy. A decent "traditional art" like BBJ, Karate etc. provides the opportunity to spare at a level the other is willing to accept and stoppage by tapping out. Boxing intent is to disable your opponent by causing as much damage as quickly as possible. This may be a reason boxing is harder to find as a school.
@@darkchild130 i did not say boxing is simple. It does have simplicity in it's goals and how you know when you are geting better and getting worst but it also gets extremely complex with the ways you get to that goal and how you get better. my point still stands that boxing does have a simplicity factor to it that keeps off the dead wieght
You can make a really weak slap look really cool by putting pencils between layers of wood or cinderblock before breaking them. You can't, however, fake getting punched in the face.
8 years old. Just arrived in America my father sent me to a boxing gym to learn the culture of America and man when I tell you my first broken nose was at 9 years old...
Hey, coach! I have a question that's been bugging me for a while. I've been interested in martial arts for a long time (trained at a "ninjutsu" school for a few years, but otherwise untrained) and your story about your student Roy has made me consider getting back on the horse once the pandemic clears up. Thing is, I have asperger's/high-functioning autism, so I'm kind of socially awkward. The reason this is relevant is because I figure that if I'm not talented socially, it's probably a bad idea to seriously damage my brain on top of that. So, I'm thinking about a compromise: while some brain damage is clearly inevitable with any amount of training, I figure that only training for a few years (to learn the basics) will result in less net trauma than a lifelong commitment would. The problem is that I wonder if a few years of MMA/boxing/etc. is enough for the basics to stick years down the line. Will three, four or five years of training (as an example time-frame) be enough for me to still be decently proficient later on? Or is getting rusty such a significant problem that I would have to train even longer if I want the basics to stick?
You'll only get brain damage from martial arts if you get hit on the head repeatedly for extended periods of time. That shouldn't be a concern unless you're training for competitive boxing. Most of what you will do will deal with every other body part.
Brother, aspergers isnt a disease or a disability, so martial arts wont "further damage" your brain. And it probably wont be an issue. A lot of fighters are extremely friendly, and plenty of the gyms form strong bonds together. Ive been taken in pretty well despite my social inaptitude. Dont worry about setting yourself in a tome frame. Go there and try it out. If its not for you, just dont stick to it. But if you have the passion, dont restrict yourself. Your body and mind will deteriorate within time anyway.
Boxing is a traditional martial art. It has all the elements that were present in sword and pistol duels in the 19th century. These elements are: seconds, the referee and his clothing, commands that are similar to commands in fencing with swords, strikes that are applied not below the waist and only the part of the hand that is wearing a glove. In late dueling fencing - only a blow with the blade of a sword. Throwing out a towel is also a tribute to tradition - the duel began by throwing out a handkerchief, here it is a sign that everything has gone too far and we must stop.Previously, a Boxing match was held until one of the opponents could no longer stand on his feet - a complete analogy with a duel. Even duels on swords sometimes had breaks in time - like boxing rounds. In the beginning, the British switched duels from swords to pistols, to equalize chanes. Then they did Boxing, because they realized that you can not just kill people. Ramsey, as a Brit, you can be proud of your traditional gentlemen's martial art-Boxing.
Well, timed rounds are a fairly recent innovation in boxing. From the early 1900’s and before, a round lasted until one man got knocked down. That’s why so many of those old boxing matches went for over 100 rounds- every time a man fell down, they got a break. That’s a system that easy to milk.
Spend an hour rolling with brand new white belts in a BJJ class and you will have your eyes gouged, you will be head butted, they will kick you in the groin, they will claw and bite you, they will thrash around like wild animals trying to kill you, and they won’t even realize what they’re doing. What would change in MMA competition is that the better grappler would have more weapons. When you can pin a guy in full mount, headbutts are one of the quickest ways to end a fight.
Boxing took my martial Arts skill to the next level.Most martial artist could not deal with me after I implemented boxing into my Arsenal. Also wrestling made me much tougher and very hard to take down.
i actually find traditional martial arts very useful in a fight. not for hurting or defence, but because some forms/styles can develop some seriously INSANE speed and agility.
Absolutely, boxing is for real because they put it to use. I started martial arts with traditional Karate, from Uechi Ryu school (or at least the interpretation of Uechi Ryu that my teacher's dad brought from Okinawa, as this was in Brazil). I was lucky that it was a very good school, my teachers were competitor in international contact karate, chinese boxing and kickboxing, they trained armed forces and police officers, and we did a lot of sparring and very little kata. After a couple of years I found I was quite capable of handling myself in combat situations when life put me in those (which in a late nineties and early 2000s Brazil was often enough), especially against multiple opponents because of some characteristic style choices. I also found out later, while sparring with boxers, that I had distances for head punches all wrong, as this was against the sparing rules for my karate style, and it took me a while before I was able to pick that up, lots of punches coming just short. My kick boxing friend would not let me kick when sparring though. Any martial art that puts you in a situation to try out the techniques against a non-compliant opponent will make you better at fighting, but that doesn't mean you won't have gaps in your game if you focus on only one of them.
I haven't watched the full videoyet but my initial thought is that the closest thing to a boxing mcdojo would be a gym that teaches cardio boxing. granted most places that teach cardio boxing don't bill it as actual boxing or self defense but it is taking boxing and putting in the position where you don't Spar and don't actually hit anyone.
While searching for a boxing gym in my area, I have found a few places that brand themselves as boxing gyms but only offer fitness boxing classes with no sparring. That's pretty close to a McDojo imo. *I meant to type that these fitness boxing gyms in my area dont spar. They only do drills and bagwork and mitwork. The only places I can get actual boxing training in my area is at an MMA gym. I corrected this after people commented about it.*
@@Hatingonyall2023 I agree. If they spar there's no way it can be a McDojo. Boxing is kinda hard to be a mcdojo because it's all about moving the body, footwork, techniques, etc. It's a simple art.
@@Hatingonyall2023 My point exactly! You can't fake boxing. Sure you can be kinda bad and throw a bad punch but faking it? Nah. It's impossible. People who don't box could throw a beautiful punch.
Hi Ramsey! Would you mind to do a video about how different types of weight effects your chance at winnig a fight. If there is difference beetween the two fighters weight how important if it is lean muscle mass or fat or or water or heavier clothes? I would like to hear your take on the topic.
At the gym I went to for a while you sparred first or second day there. You were expected to do a few rounds of sparring at least one day a week preferably 2 if you went 3 days or more a week. So you just more or less know whose better by just who wins
If you want to be good at fighting go somewhere where people train to fight. If you want to eat good food you go where they make good food. Its simple fellas. You step into a dojo if you see no sparring then wtf would you expect you would be good at fighting if you learn there?
Your comments are accurate. What motivated martial arts to change is membership revenues. I trained in tkd before it became an Olympic sport, I trained in kyokushin, boxing and kickboxing. Unfortunately, people do not like getting hurt for many reasons. As I got older, I like technical sparring but not hard sparring. Boxing has adopted this training also like boxing fitness or none contact boxing. If an individual wants to fight they will not go to these gyms. I’m not a fan of tkd poomsies nor karate katas. The important thing is to be physically active. A black belt is only a goal. I earned 5th dan in tkd, black in karate but I’m horrible in katas and poomsies but not in fighting. A black belt does not mean you are killer, it mean that an individual achieved a level of competence that your peers approve of in your discipline such as Katas, poomsies or fighting.
I see a lot of u guys are confusing what mcdojos are. A boxersize class or cardio boxing aren’t branding themselves as fighting classes their meant for exercise cardio so it’s not really a mcdojo.
For me the ropeskips helped me a lot with my foot work and cardio ... I practiced karate and my posture was really stiff but once I jumped to boxing I learned how to move around my opponet better as an offensive matter while at my karate school it was more about "HIT THE GUY AS HARD AS YOU AND RUN AWAY" self-defense matter, but in my IRL encounters the discipline that helped me the most was wrestling most people wont get up after they fall over their backs on hard concrete.
The thing is: There are Boxing, Wrestling, and Jiu-jitsu McDojos, a lot more than you'd expect. Title Boxing of course, then various Professional Wrestling clubs, then most Jujutsu (Japanese) Dojos. I've actually encountered Blue Belts in BJJ that knew nothing about Grappling. I wrestled with them, and submitted them, even though my only submission experience comes from Kajukenbo (Danzan Ryu Jujutsu). I also happen to be a Collegiate Wrestler. The opposite is true as well, I've encountered BJJ White Belts who can submit me without even trying. I believe Sensei Seth and IcyMike have talked about the Watering down of BJJ, and in many Gyms that's true more than ever. It's sad that one of the best grappling arts on the planet is suffering this.
Actually in my town there is a KickBoxing gym where they claim to have like 6 world champions just to bait people to go in there, one of these "champions" just train 3 hours for week, that's ridicolous. The training is just jumping rope, shadowbox and sparring. They suck at throwing any technique, they all have bad form. Some of them are my friends, they didn't knew even how to hold pads correctly, I'm glad I have opened their eyes and they have changed gym since then. What causes McDojo to exist are liars who just want to get some money, whether it's a TMA or combat sport.
Bad news, Ramsey. There are actually Boxing mcdojos. In my area there are some clubs selling themselves as boxing gyms but all they do bag work for an hour and have zero sparring.
Hard disagree here. If the definition of a mcdojo is "a place that doesn't teach you combat applicable techniques but pretends like it does" then actually the vast majority of boxing gyms are mcdojos. Most boxing gyms today are non-contact boxing because that tends to be the most popular form of boxing among consumers. You come in, do some jump rope, learn the 3-4 combos of the day, practice them on a heavy bag, maybe do a little basic focus mitt work, then do some bodyweight exercises in between or after. But there are very very few boxing gyms around anymore that teach boxing as a martial art. Believe me, I'm a boxer and it's a struggle to find a place to train when I travel.
I was Title “Boxing” club’s latest victim. I was duped into thinking that they would train me to be a fighter. They then dropped the ball on me and said they don’t allow sparring of any kind.
Boxing, Judo, Wrestling, BJJ, Muay Thai, all have one big thing in common; they will humble you. I remember the first punch that really rung my bell. And the first time my breath was knocked out by a Judo throw. You don't really get humbled in most mcdojos. I think allot of our culture is missing a little humility.
I got the opportunity to go to a boxing gym run by a very famous boxer from my city, wen my sparing time came up , kept giving him my best jab , which he deflected using the philly shell, then the sneaky git slipped , and give a gentle under my ribcage , well of course I went down like a popped balloon. He just said "wat u doin down there😅
When I first started boxing the trainer got me in the ring and gave me a working over. As he explained later " I always give new comers a bit of pain, if they have the heart for it they'll be back next week
Perhaps you are unaware but there are quite a few "non-sparring" boxing centres springing up where most of the instructors are don't have a lot of boxing experience (more like fitness instructor type certifications) and the majority of clients are women who just punch pads, etc. 90% of participants do not compete and many are just there to get a 30 minute workout in.
I think the fact that boxing has no belts has made it extremely resistant to McDojo syndrome. Without belts, there's no real way of proving your worth other than being a good fighter. TMA just has not been good at quality control. It's actually very similar to the Stormtrooper Corps in the Star Wars Expanded Universe. The quality of stormtrooper recruits was very hit or miss. Their fighting capabilities depended on the academy they went to.
I do want to put it out there I do NOT intend to invalidate TMAs: they can be good. As a matter of fact, I started with TKD, and I can say I did learn fighting. My teacher taught us boxing in class as well as fighting with our guards up. So much so that a guy at my college's gym asked why I didn't fight with my hands down, because I told him my art was taekwondo. It's about not falling into a cult mentality and really asking yourself if you are learning what you should about combat.
Boxing McDojo? Where would I find one? I even had a hard time to find a boxing gym at all where I live. I can find BJJ and MMA gyms everywhere but a pure boxing gym? I finally found one and probably to your surprise, we don't get on the ring at all. You can only after you get to the advanced level, are deemed ready and have the equipment for that. I had been going there for a year before the pandemic lock down and we followed the same routine every time, heavy bag, conditioning, footwork, techniques (offense and defense) and that's almost enough to kill me every time. Real hard work.
Nah! You can’t Mac.Dojo a Boxing gym. I believe whoever the trainer is, is run by a boxer or ex boxer themselves and the coach has too much pride in their expertise and knowledge. So when they train kids , teens and adults. They train them what they know. To become a fighter or a better person to protect themselves, have that mental toughness to be able to handle themselves. And a lot is on the line. Of the gym as well, reputation, credibility and pride of the gym and who trained them and the quality of students. That goes with Muy Thai as well. And also the grappling / wrestling arts - like Judo, Jiu-Jitsu, Shua Jao, Sambo , San Shou, Wrestling ( freestyle, Greco Roman, Folk Style, Lankgashire, Mongolian, Catch, Submission) etc....but you’re right about boxing and put Muy Thai in there as well. Great video 👍🏼
You could say the closest equivalent of a boxing McDojo would be "boxercise " classes. Whilst they are great for cardio and you may even learn how to throw a decent punch, they don't incorporate sparring. But then no-one in their right mind who does just boxercise classes would claim to be a good boxer.
Wouldn't it be funny if there was a post-apocalypse story where basketball movements is practiced as a martial art because nobody remembers how they were actually used?
For pro boxers, it's a job so they put in a LOT of time and have plenty of time since its all they do, but point taken. Its thought the intense cardio serves one well in deep water, IE the later rounds. Some guys dropped long road work and did longer sprints, 220's/440's for example.
My boxing school does has some kata'ish work :) its more of a frame to get beginners to do more slips, and duck unders instead of just hands but it really works well.
Hell!! Where I'm from in Tennessee there are hardly any boxing gyms left anymore. I mean not even at the YMCA's like when I was a kid. It's like they've all been replaced with bjj or mma. Judo is also pretty popular here in East Tennessee but there are only like one or two real deal boxing gyms. It's really sad actually because boxing here in the West back in the day was pretty much the main thing that was usually passed down from father to son and then you go to the YMCA and golden gloves. And if your really good and enjoy it you get into the Amateur and then maybe professional.
just because it's WORKED doesn't mean it's a dance that anyone can do. you still have to have the fundamentals or you simply cannot do the thing. Boxing has been WORKED for decades, but it still requires a VERY specific skillset.
Well, for one, I'd say there are boxing mcdojos. Look at most of these boxercise classes. I had a girl tell me that she "used to box", when she hadn't actually made contact with anyone's face. Another thing I would say boxing has to its credit, similar to Muay Thai and wrestling, is a lack of ranks/belts. A lot of people see black belts as the end all be all, as if having a black belt is what you need to be good at fighting. Boxing gives you no such delusions, and also weeds out the people that see things through that lens.
It's an interesting topic and your points are great. I think it's also about the grass roots type of people that get into the sport that keep it strong. For example here in the UK it's common for parents to choose to get a child into karate/TKD etc but don't know what they are looking at, so they can't identify a belt farm McDojo as apposed to a competent school. Boxing by comparison seems to be something that parents only tend to put a child into if the parent is very specifically a fan, or even an ex-practitioner. Typically they are much better educated on what they should be looking for and spending their money on. So boxing McDojos don't flourish from the easy money if you get what I mean. I think the closest thing I've seen in the sport is boxercise classes, but those at least don't tend to try to masquerade themselves as real boxing, so it's not so much of a issue. Side note nothing makes me more depressed than finding a western style kickboxing gym with the long trousers, a belt system, and no sparring/clinch that claims they teach Muay Thai. They don't please stop, call a spade a spade don't try and con people lol.
My take is boxing has been branded as a sport for decades. To most uneducated people, they prefer a "deadly" fighting art "for za streetz" rather than learning "a sport". That's why japanese/chinese TMA that came later usually involve with McDojo rather than famous martial arts that's already available in the west
I had a friend who said the same thing. The more it focuses on sparring, the more reality based it is. Boxing, wrestling, and kickboxing are grounded for this reason.
We need to remember that training stamina in a sporting competition is befitting in an arena where a contest is prolonged to entertain an audience....But in a streetfight we try to finish off life threatening danger as quickly as possible so ECONOMY of motion becomes more of a priority...This is not being dictated by TRADITION in Martial arts at all. But by PRACTICAL considerations tailored for an environment more dangerous than a sporting competition....TMA doesn't merely program fixed movements which dont involve any pressure training...You can get people to come at you with pressure with safety equipment on & go for decisive targets...Obviously people trained in MMA would have greater endurance than a lay person in the street but if the danger is worse they should not try to prolong the outcome as if it were a sports contest because with the danger of weapons, pack attacks and multiple opponents they might not have that option...Also MMA fighters muscle memory on autopilot is conditioned to AVOID eyes, knees and groin...I agree the comments on Boxing being much more intensive a sparring environment than MOST TMA dojos but I think the esoteric unrehearsed Basketball movements analogy might be a LITTLE unfair to TMAs ...lol ...Very funny though....Thats an interesting analogy between Classical Ballet and TMA because as in classical ballet TMA tends to be ORNAMENTAL rather than practical functional......But I'd be careful Ramsey about comparing modern dance with combat Sports because IRON MIKE could get really homicidally STROPPY about it chum.......lol
Try sikaran arnis no one has heard of it since I was born it’s out there but no school
@@carllubrin8518 just google it and it looks pretty cool. But i guess the Philippinos are more famous with Kali stick/sword/knife combat so this martial art got overshadowed
Jake The Asian Guy yeah it’s a bit of both but sikaran is a family art
I love how boxing enviroment "forces" you to prove yourself, there's no rank system like belt colour or stuff like that, if you're good at boxing then you have to prove it in the ring
There is ranking system, and there is belt: championship belt.
@@GuitarsRockForever the only belt that matters lol
usually have a novice fight pretty early in your journey just the sparing Against your team mates your almost full contact very very early especially if there are few boys at your level at your home gym and everyone ones end game is to fight at a big event not for self defence
It's an approach that is very intimidating for newcomers, though. There would probably be more people who knew basic boxing technique and appreciated it if they didn't think that joining a boxing gym required them to fight.
@@jonathanmyers3524 that depends by what do you mean by "fight"? Does sparring count as fight or do you mean a match?
I actually threw 8 imagined basketballs through an also imagined basket while watching this video. I was promoted to a "9th degree black shoelace" and "Grandmaster of Shadowbasketball" for this.
But maybe I just imagined that too.
🤣
Well, sometimes that approach can produce real results. For example, I imagined that I had sex with Angelina Jolie. After we 'finished', I had to change my underwear for real.
Laker-ryu is the superior style
Who would have known that the key to learning how to fight would involve fighting 😂
I know, who would have thought that? Mind blowing.
Imho the key to learn how to fight, is to get hurt :D eventually, you will learn how to block or dodge, and THEN you learned how to fight. Throwing punches and kicks etc doesnt mean that person can actually fight. You dont even need proper punching or kicking techniques in order to win a fight. Dodge doge dodge and at some point your enemy is tired enough that u can just bash him with the butt of a fist over and over till he dont move anymore and then you won the fight. Also you need ability and understanding of the other persons style in order to anticipate how to respond in a split second. And getting hurt teaches you that skill.
how bizarre
Yeah, who would've thunk it 😅🥊!
@@Saiko_PATH Yes dodge, dodge, dodge it's that easy!!🤦 Life is just like the matrix.
If you don't spar and train on the regular you are getting lit up in a fight, that simple.
Cardio Boxing and Cardio Kickboxing: “Allow myself to introduce...myself.”
It's not McDojo if they don't sell themselves as self-defense but for fitness only. It says right in the name: "cardio", meaning it's for fitness only.
Who else hyped for the kengan ashura review coming up
I cant wait!
I haven't watched kengan ashura however i have the feeling that when Ramsey releases that video i will be done with season 3
I requested him like crazy to analize Okubo vs Kanoh fight! haha
what when did he announce that?
Me Omar takita or how ever say his name lol
Should review baki to Ramsey
Trying to fake boxing, wrestling, Jiu-jitsu, Muay Thai is like trying to fake speaking another language.
You mean like weebs?
Oh, man. You see it from time to time. Watch guys get ABSOLUTELY WASHED in the ring.
Faking Karate, kung fu, or TKD is like faking a dead language. No one speaks latin, so no one will notice when you mess up the conjugation or syntax or whatever.
@@acutefailure1 sometimes they do both faking the martial art and the language just because it's an foreign art that nobody bother to translate names of the moves, i've seen a karate mcdojo near my highschool faking a kata name with some gibberish word that sounded like japanese
My highschool have japanese as compulsory subject, so it was pretty funny when i heard some serious dude saying some gibberish word that sounded japanese to his student and nobody is trying to think "is this real japanese word?" Or trying to translate it, like wtf dude is it so hard to use atleast simple google translate to create some bs hombrew kata name?
@@seizuakahoshi923 you're not a fan of "wind fat left thirteen potato" kata?
@@acutefailure1 well i'm more "flying apple swiping banana" kata fan, but seriously those people were the only one who can get away with something that equivalent of saying "chingchong" to a chinese person
That's interesting. In Jack Dempsey's book "Championship Fighting" he mentions something about how there are coaches who just teach people to score points and wait out the bell.
So to him there was a clear distinction between true fighting and only trying to win a sport.
It by nature is still fighting. In boxing there are a number of different styles
I was gonna make this point in a separate comment but i will do it here. Even if what you've said is true you still have to defend vs a commited attacker most of the time so it's still closer to a real fight than most sportified TMA like karate and TKD.
With the latter you can be a world class athlete and still get smoked in a real confrontation. Because their ruleset isn't that representative of that scenario. With modern martial arts that is not a problem. A punch in the face in the ring is virtually the same on da streetz. So while getting ready for the sport of boxing can help you in a self defense or street fight scenario the same can't be said about point karate or TKD.
@@papita69xxx I hear ya... Even if you don't learn how to punch well, you still get pressure testing.
There's many different boxing styles. Amateur boxing may be more in line with a points scoring system because of how the fight scores are calculated but even scoring points can be difficult to achieve in a fight and may not necessarily win the fight depending on the judges.
However fighting using this style is no less of an accomplishment than fighting to knock out an opponent.
When there's millions of dollars involved in only trying to win at sport then it takes on a different dimension in the same way when fighting to stop the killing of a loved one. Both situations will bring out differing emotions to different people.
getting jabbed in the face and being unable to hit back is still fighting. These jabs hurt. Also outside boxing is the part that works best in MMA as well.
Hey Ramsay
Over here in the uk we have stuff like boxercise classes taking place at mainstream fitness gyms
A lot of people think they are doing legitimate boxing based training and the gyms portray theses classes as such
They are not it’s total nonsense
If you don’t skip and don’t spar then I don’t believe you are doing anything that can use the word box in its description
Mike
47 years Muay Thai of training/coaching
I can confirm it's the same case in Italy, fun fact I started kickboxing in mainstream gym, didn't learn almost anything, then transitioned to a legit boxing gym, and they had the same coach, he was a high profile name, but he just didn't care enough of the mainstream gym, two complete different approaches.
@sasholsuma I did 420 years. Amateur.
I've seen this in germany too. But more with kickboxing. Boxing misses the cool kicks to feel hard-core ;)
I don't think that people believe they are doing boxing when they do boxercise. Otherwise why would it be called boxercise?
Boxercise is recognised as fitness training incorporating boxing movements such as punching.
Boxing is, well, boxing. People that want to learn to box will probably go to an affiliated amateur boxing gym and can then participate in a boxing class. Even boxing gyms run boxercise classes as it can be a additional and valuable source of income and a way to introduce people that are otherwise not interested in boxing or do not feel confident enough to try to maybe give it a go.
Boxercise classes are an excellent way of getting other people interested in boxing. Even if 10% of participants in these classes become interested in boxing the result is that you have grown the sport which is what you need to keep the sport going and kept in the mainstream otherwise it just becomes a fad. Please remember that boxing is not just a sport, it is a business and boxing gyms are not always subsidised in the UK.
I'd love to have a boxercise class at my local gym as my nearest boxing gym is miles away and I'm too old/injured to really want to go through the rigours of boxing training again.
I used to do that, it was good exercise and I could do it on school time. They didn't market it as genuine boxing, and I hope none of the other classgoers thought it was.
The more a martial art/combat sport focuses on full contact competitive bouts the less likely it is McDojos won’t get singled out.
Bet they still cowers behind "FoR dA StReETZ!!" if TMA getting more full contact competition like boxing tho
Seizu Akahoshi yeah, I could see them making arguments like:
“This full contact Krav Maga championship is watered down, I would kill these guys if I competed.”
@@kaloyankatzarov9284 they'll say such thing and still backdown from every match unless they can bribe the other fighter to lose or bribe the judges
@@kaloyankatzarov9284 Krav Maga championship?
More like "last man standing"
1:19 That is exactly how most commercial Boxing Gyms work.
It depends on who you ask if Boxing is still as effective or pure as it once was, as you know from reading Jack Dempsey's book.
There are a lot of white collar people out there that pay high dollar for these kinds of Gyms, and they may even "Spar" with visiting pros who get paid to honestly just carry and play with them, and let them feel like they can hold their own in a ring.
When they're really only better than garbage as you said in a previous video.
In competition these Gyms often try to put their students up against soft touches or use their students as feeder fish for more serious trainers to pad their fighters' records.
MMA Gyms are everywhere in almost every small town here in the states, but Boxing gyms are much harder to come by and good ones are even rarer still.
As for skipping Rope, most successful Champions and Trainers I know of from the older 1-2 Belt eras say that you should do no more than 2 rounds of skipping, and anything more than 2 or 3 miles of roadwork a day is excessive and requires longer time off to recover.
Most of them admit that you can, and that they often did exchange roadwork completely for more hours in the gym sparring, shadow Boxing and working the different bags, and some occasional or regular long walks and sprinting.
Excessively long roadwork is one way that some fighters focus and isolate themselves for a "War" mindset as Marvelous Marvin Hagler put it, but really it's mostly present because so many fighters let themselves get comically out of shape through yoyo crash dieting.
I agree, roadwork is a grind and a mental toughness thing. I get out of Judo shape if I miss a couple weeks of sparring.
I don't understand why some people hare road work, nothing beats it for stamina.
It's interesting that you would use basketball as an example here because, at least to some extent, the quality of play is actually suppressed by "tradition." There was a somewhat famous example on Girls Highschool Basketball from about a decade ago where the coach of a known weak team opted to use a sabermetric like analytical approach to the game. He realized that the best option his team had was to constantly employ a somewhat antiquated tactic called a "Full Court Press." His theory was that his team wasn't good enough to compete with modern manup or zone defense, so his goal was to make moving the ball up the court enough of a battle that they could get turnovers by draining the shot clock.
Ultimately it proved to be very effective (although physically demanding and thus not optimized for star shooters). They managed to make it to nationals but the refs started calling sportsmanship fouls on them because the game they were playing didn't look enough like basketball.
This type of "the way the game's supposed to be" mentality bleeds into NBA level play too. Until recently, when the Warriors started proving conventional wisdom wrong, the 3 point shot was drastically undervalued and thus if you were an aspiring pro player you would have been coached to transition your game away from it. Again, it was statistical analysis that allowed this tradition to be broken, not just players naturally improving the quality of play.
About 7 years ago, I went to check out a title boxing gym that was close to where I worked. Short story long; it was basically a boxing themed Zumba class. There was no sparring allowed at all and no focus on technique, timing, reflexes etc.
There are mcdojos for boxing it's basically just aerobic boxing which will make any Soccer mom act like she can throw hands lol
Those are boxersize classes and they not meant to be martial arts their meant to be exercise
@@Hatingonyall2023 so that makes them a real dojo and not a mcdojo? I disagree with you. They're barely even mcdojo lol
You'll never win a fight on tae bo
Joey Greathouse no it’s just makes them not a dojo at all as it’s not their purpose to be a dojo it’s a form of exercise
@@joeygreathouse3029 lol I used to watch my ants tai Bo's vhs tapes when I was a kid
Boxercise doesn't advertise itself as something that will make you a better fighter. Doesn't count.
Fist of all, boxing doesn't have colored belts. People enter a boxing gym to learn how to box and people enter a karatê dojo to get a Black belt, not to learn proper karatê. They assume, when they begin training, that a Black belt = fighting ability.
If there is a demand, someone will provide what people want. People want to be considered fighters, but do not want to fight. People are deceived because they want to be deceived.
I'm a shotokan karatê 4th Dan and I have a hard time to keep students (and even trainning partners), who often migrate to other instrutors as they can progress more quickly and with less bruising.
I have a long love/hate relationship with karatê. I absolutely love karatê, but I hate its enviroment, its grading system, etc.
The belt system is the best and worst innovation of kano / funakoshi. I think the problem is that the colour of your belt is read as reflecting your fighting ability. If that were the case, you'd be demoted as you got older, not promoted. Actually I think belt levels can represent cumulative personal development. Even at that, the lure of belt advancement would probably still exert too big an influence over many practitioners.
So at the end a traditional martial art without sparring is an ancient type of dance.
As many have pointed out, there are boxercise classes at regular gyms. There is also the explosion of boutique gyms which operate entirely on group classes. One of them here is what i suppose you could call boxing themed hiit. Based on their marketing and their pricing structure, i would be tempted to call it a boxing mcdojo.
Full contact sparring against a resisting opponent being a large part of training is why wrestling and boxing is more legit.
I’ve been in a boxing mcdojo before, it was basically a fitness class with some guy who knew the very basics of boxing, and at the end we did 10 minutes on a bag and 5 minutes of ‘sparring’
The basketball analogy was freaking hilarious... a secret basketball master out there teaching basketball like movements without having the students actually PLAY basketball 😂😂😂 that's so true tho
Hahahaha.... Kungfu nuts literally have not a single person alive that can prove the effectiveness of their art, and we all fell for that nonsense years ago.
@@mrt445 most of the techniques you have learned and you think is "oh it's an mma technique !!!" has a high chance that it has roots from kung fu (it is not an MMA technique because MMA is MIXED martial arts !!!!!!). so yes, in a way, mma fighters are kung fu fighters, if they use an orthodox style. kung fu in a way is mixed martial arts, but indirectly, because they explored every way the human body can possibly move in a fight, so at that point, it's just human martial arts, a complete martial art. modern sports are very young, while kung fu had more than 2,000 years to develop
Just started kickboxing yesterday. Man, not only is it a real fighting style but it's a damn tough core workout too!
The closest thing to "fake boxing" are boxfit classes but then again boxfit are very transparent to what they offer- theyre just their to give one a good sweat in and the people who take those classes are aware of that and just there to sweat it out.
I think the shortest answer is that a fist fight in front of thousands of viewers who are paying to see a beat down is the ONLY way to get a belt in boxing. No one can *give* you a belt in boxing. Really like the basketball analogy, though.
What do they serve in a boxing McDojo? Is it as good as McDonalds?
They'll serve a three piece and a biscuit. You're not allowed to return it.
knuckle sandwiches
Well, there are boxing coaches that teach you to score points and wait for the bell.
Boxing McDojos? Oh, you mean the cardio-boxing gyms!
Well I be damned I'm here less than a minute after this was posted
People play basketball, on DA STREETS!
Road work on, Da street's.
"No no no, Ramsey Dewey. You have not answered my question. I would like to join a boxing McDojo, and I am genuinely wondering where to find a place where I can do 100% junk training and still convince my friends that I do boxing. Do you have any recommendations?"
I went to a boxing gym with some very mcdojo elements as they had no idea about different martial arts and different types of guards and more modern stances and told me that i couldnt do them because they didnt work, but i still learned how to box quite well from there because they still taught great boxing
There are "executive" boxing programs and "cardio" boxing schools that actually don't allow sparring, they are boxing McDojos. This would kill the sport of boxing if we started having heavy bag punching competitions where judges graded work on the heavy bag like they do ice skating.
Are these fitness gyms lying to their customers by convincing them that they are being trained to be fighters? If not, then no, they are not McDojos.
Short answer; Business men. Being an asian man in the USA/Canada allows you to sell snake oil martial arts without question. It is ridiculous how rarely people actually look into what they are buying when it comes to Martial Arts.
Cardio boxing is definitely a thing here in Canada. Legit boxing clubs are quite rare here I would say.
That basketball analogy is pure gold..hahahaha!
In fact it would make a fantastic short film/sketch.
Right on the money again! The boxing story was a very good analogy to show clearly to anyone why many martial arts were portrayed as the "best" self-defence to attract students, when in reality they had little to do (if any) with that since they didn't include any sparring.
That was the mistake of many parents in the 80's % and 90's who sent their children to martial arts schools to learn how to protect themselves on the street which of course was a mistake but they didn't know any better. And the bs macdojos took advantage of their good will.
“ you can’t fake boxing “ ha! Very true sir.
In Germany you can go to a pure boxing club for like 5-10€/6-12$ per month. Those are mostly oldschool boxing clubs, who work out and teach in school gyms, without fancy mat floors and cross fit area.
Those clubs exist like 50 years, when boxing was a big sport in germany. If you want to go to a trendy or popular e.g. MMA or Kung Fu Gym, you can easily pay 50-100€/60-120$ per month.
Jep, MMA Gyms sind echt teuer😅
Aber bei uns haben alle von denen auch Hantelbereiche.
Wow L H. That's a huge difference in cost. Maybe the boxing clubs are subsidised because boxing is an Olympic sport.
My impression was that boxing was still quite popular in Germany. Both Klitschko brothers used to fight there regularly and fill stadiums with supporters until they retired and there have been many world champions from Germany recently including Sturm, Ottke, Brahmer, Abraham, Veit, Huck (these are the ones I can think of). I remember watching AJ v Klitschko with an old German couple who were very disappointed when Klitschko lost!! Best wishes.
Fighting is a science as well as an art when you have feedback and metrics. That means actual fighting.
getting hit in the face is very humbling and a great wake up call
So maybe I'm a bit delusioned, or have simply been extremely lucky, but I have tried a number of martial arts, and all of them have contained lots of sparring. I don't recall ever doing forms that weren't used frequently in sparring. HEMA especially had a lot of guard positions and "special cuts", but all of them were used in both sparring and competition.
Sure there were a lot of running around, doing push-ups and stretching but as the coach said, none of that makes you a bad fighter. We did it to make us better at sparring, so we wouldn't gas out after a couple of minutes.
And as for styles, the main thing that seemed to change was the rules. It was the same throws in Judo, HEMA and Capoeira, the same punches, guards and kicks in point karate as in kickboxing. Because that's what worked in sparring. The main difference was what guard stances you used, and those were heavily dependent on style. Point Karate didn't allow attacks to the head so you didn't guard it the same way you did in kickboxing. In HEMA obviously the sword was the main focus, punches and kicks didn't score points, so you didn't do those other as a distraction, but once you got within grappling range, it was the same throws I learned in Judo just with a sword as an added obstacle. Capoeira was the one that was the least like the others, sparring was more a dance performance than a no-risk fight. Even them, the throws and takedowns I learned was very much like the ones I remembered from Judo, and I came to use a few of them in HEMA sparring later on.
I haven't done any groundfighting, something I hope to remedy soon when gyms and classes starts up now after the pandemic. Though I suspect there are a lot of similarities between BJJ and Wrestling as well.
It's semi to full contact sparring and not point fighting type sparring nonsense
I have a buddy who learned how to box by opening a boxing gym. I'm not exactly sure how to explain that, but it makes sense, somehow.
Most don't mind getting hit and even the potential of getting hurt... It is getting hurt by a person that wants to hurt you every time you square off, is what is off putting. I will agree that until you have been hit, you will not know how to recover and move forward, it is receiving or giving a concussion everyday because it is a combat art that may not be healthy. A decent "traditional art" like BBJ, Karate etc. provides the opportunity to spare at a level the other is willing to accept and stoppage by tapping out. Boxing intent is to disable your opponent by causing as much damage as quickly as possible. This may be a reason boxing is harder to find as a school.
I think it's the simplicity of boxing that helps the most
You think boxing is simple you don't understand it.
@@darkchild130 i did not say boxing is simple. It does have simplicity in it's goals and how you know when you are geting better and getting worst but it also gets extremely complex with the ways you get to that goal and how you get better. my point still stands that boxing does have a simplicity factor to it that keeps off the dead wieght
@@darkchild130 low entry high celling
My favorite RUclips nerd, love you Ramsey. Thank you for the videos.
I saw that title and immediately thought, "Senior centers".
"Making fight-like movements, thinking they are fighters".. Lol, so true :D
You need to check out this show called Hajime No Ippo 😂 you'd hate/love coach Kamegowas training methods.
Been wondering the same thing as well coach. Hmmmm
You can make a really weak slap look really cool by putting pencils between layers of wood or cinderblock before breaking them.
You can't, however, fake getting punched in the face.
People who got paid by fake masters : i beg the differs
8 years old. Just arrived in America my father sent me to a boxing gym to learn the culture of America and man when I tell you my first broken nose was at 9 years old...
Thank you for answering my question that made me smile like a little girl
Hey, coach! I have a question that's been bugging me for a while.
I've been interested in martial arts for a long time (trained at a "ninjutsu" school for a few years, but otherwise untrained) and your story about your student Roy has made me consider getting back on the horse once the pandemic clears up. Thing is, I have asperger's/high-functioning autism, so I'm kind of socially awkward. The reason this is relevant is because I figure that if I'm not talented socially, it's probably a bad idea to seriously damage my brain on top of that. So, I'm thinking about a compromise: while some brain damage is clearly inevitable with any amount of training, I figure that only training for a few years (to learn the basics) will result in less net trauma than a lifelong commitment would. The problem is that I wonder if a few years of MMA/boxing/etc. is enough for the basics to stick years down the line. Will three, four or five years of training (as an example time-frame) be enough for me to still be decently proficient later on? Or is getting rusty such a significant problem that I would have to train even longer if I want the basics to stick?
You'll only get brain damage from martial arts if you get hit on the head repeatedly for extended periods of time. That shouldn't be a concern unless you're training for competitive boxing. Most of what you will do will deal with every other body part.
Brother, aspergers isnt a disease or a disability, so martial arts wont "further damage" your brain. And it probably wont be an issue. A lot of fighters are extremely friendly, and plenty of the gyms form strong bonds together. Ive been taken in pretty well despite my social inaptitude. Dont worry about setting yourself in a tome frame. Go there and try it out. If its not for you, just dont stick to it. But if you have the passion, dont restrict yourself. Your body and mind will deteriorate within time anyway.
Very well put video, had wondered this myself. Thank you
Boxing is a traditional martial art. It has all the elements that were present in sword and pistol duels in the 19th century. These elements are: seconds, the referee and his clothing, commands that are similar to commands in fencing with swords, strikes that are applied not below the waist and only the part of the hand that is wearing a glove. In late dueling fencing - only a blow with the blade of a sword. Throwing out a towel is also a tribute to tradition - the duel began by throwing out a handkerchief, here it is a sign that everything has gone too far and we must stop.Previously, a Boxing match was held until one of the opponents could no longer stand on his feet - a complete analogy with a duel. Even duels on swords sometimes had breaks in time - like boxing rounds. In the beginning, the British switched duels from swords to pistols, to equalize chanes. Then they did Boxing, because they realized that you can not just kill people. Ramsey, as a Brit, you can be proud of your traditional gentlemen's martial art-Boxing.
Well, timed rounds are a fairly recent innovation in boxing. From the early 1900’s and before, a round lasted until one man got knocked down. That’s why so many of those old boxing matches went for over 100 rounds- every time a man fell down, they got a break. That’s a system that easy to milk.
How much would MMAs grappling work if groin shots and eye gouge and headbutts were added? If you can one of your demonstrations it would be amazing
Spend an hour rolling with brand new white belts in a BJJ class and you will have your eyes gouged, you will be head butted, they will kick you in the groin, they will claw and bite you, they will thrash around like wild animals trying to kill you, and they won’t even realize what they’re doing.
What would change in MMA competition is that the better grappler would have more weapons. When you can pin a guy in full mount, headbutts are one of the quickest ways to end a fight.
Boxing took my martial Arts skill to the next level.Most martial artist could not deal with me after I implemented boxing into my Arsenal. Also wrestling made me much tougher and very hard to take down.
i actually find traditional martial arts very useful in a fight. not for hurting or defence, but because some forms/styles can develop some seriously INSANE speed and agility.
Absolutely, boxing is for real because they put it to use. I started martial arts with traditional Karate, from Uechi Ryu school (or at least the interpretation of Uechi Ryu that my teacher's dad brought from Okinawa, as this was in Brazil). I was lucky that it was a very good school, my teachers were competitor in international contact karate, chinese boxing and kickboxing, they trained armed forces and police officers, and we did a lot of sparring and very little kata. After a couple of years I found I was quite capable of handling myself in combat situations when life put me in those (which in a late nineties and early 2000s Brazil was often enough), especially against multiple opponents because of some characteristic style choices. I also found out later, while sparring with boxers, that I had distances for head punches all wrong, as this was against the sparing rules for my karate style, and it took me a while before I was able to pick that up, lots of punches coming just short. My kick boxing friend would not let me kick when sparring though. Any martial art that puts you in a situation to try out the techniques against a non-compliant opponent will make you better at fighting, but that doesn't mean you won't have gaps in your game if you focus on only one of them.
I haven't watched the full videoyet but my initial thought is that the closest thing to a boxing mcdojo would be a gym that teaches cardio boxing.
granted most places that teach cardio boxing don't bill it as actual boxing or self defense but it is taking boxing and putting in the position where you don't Spar and don't actually hit anyone.
While searching for a boxing gym in my area, I have found a few places that brand themselves as boxing gyms but only offer fitness boxing classes with no sparring. That's pretty close to a McDojo imo.
*I meant to type that these fitness boxing gyms in my area dont spar. They only do drills and bagwork and mitwork. The only places I can get actual boxing training in my area is at an MMA gym. I corrected this after people commented about it.*
If it has sparring how can it be a mcdojo what do u expect
@@Hatingonyall2023 I agree. If they spar there's no way it can be a McDojo. Boxing is kinda hard to be a mcdojo because it's all about moving the body, footwork, techniques, etc. It's a simple art.
Turtle The Loser exactly, boxing isn’t something u can fake in sparring. Either u know how to fight or u get punched in the face 😂
@@Hatingonyall2023 My point exactly! You can't fake boxing. Sure you can be kinda bad and throw a bad punch but faking it? Nah. It's impossible. People who don't box could throw a beautiful punch.
Hating on Y’all 2020 My bad, that was a typo. It has NO sparring. Thats what I meant.
When I see that it’s uploaded 17 seconds ago 👀
Hi Ramsey! Would you mind to do a video about how different types of weight effects your chance at winnig a fight. If there is difference beetween the two fighters weight how important if it is lean muscle mass or fat or or water or heavier clothes? I would like to hear your take on the topic.
No belt colors. No culty sensei. You get hit a few times you find out who you are very quickly.
That boxercise bs is the mc dojo of boxing.
do people who do that think it is teaching them to fight? I think people just do it because it's a good aerobic exercise.
As someone that boxed for years I can say that skipping rope is useful to strengthen your calves, improve your rhythm, and teach you the boxer's hop.
At the gym I went to for a while you sparred first or second day there. You were expected to do a few rounds of sparring at least one day a week preferably 2 if you went 3 days or more a week. So you just more or less know whose better by just who wins
If you want to be good at fighting go somewhere where people train to fight. If you want to eat good food you go where they make good food. Its simple fellas. You step into a dojo if you see no sparring then wtf would you expect you would be good at fighting if you learn there?
Your comments are accurate. What motivated martial arts to change is membership revenues. I trained in tkd before it became an Olympic sport, I trained in kyokushin, boxing and kickboxing. Unfortunately, people do not like getting hurt for many reasons. As I got older, I like technical sparring but not hard sparring. Boxing has adopted this training also like boxing fitness or none contact boxing. If an individual wants to fight they will not go to these gyms. I’m not a fan of tkd poomsies nor karate katas. The important thing is to be physically active. A black belt is only a goal. I earned 5th dan in tkd, black in karate but I’m horrible in katas and poomsies but not in fighting. A black belt does not mean you are killer, it mean that an individual achieved a level of competence that your peers approve of in your discipline such as Katas, poomsies or fighting.
I see a lot of u guys are confusing what mcdojos are. A boxersize class or cardio boxing aren’t branding themselves as fighting classes their meant for exercise cardio so it’s not really a mcdojo.
Boxing should be the nucleus of any "self defense" program for men.
For me the ropeskips helped me a lot with my foot work and cardio ... I practiced karate and my posture was really stiff but once I jumped to boxing I learned how to move around my opponet better as an offensive matter while at my karate school it was more about "HIT THE GUY AS HARD AS YOU AND RUN AWAY" self-defense matter, but in my IRL encounters the discipline that helped me the most was wrestling most people wont get up after they fall over their backs on hard concrete.
*Walks into a boxing gym for first time*
Derp: You guys ready for sparring?!?!
Boxers: Don't you mean the title fight?!
The thing is: There are Boxing, Wrestling, and Jiu-jitsu McDojos, a lot more than you'd expect. Title Boxing of course, then various Professional Wrestling clubs, then most Jujutsu (Japanese) Dojos. I've actually encountered Blue Belts in BJJ that knew nothing about Grappling. I wrestled with them, and submitted them, even though my only submission experience comes from Kajukenbo (Danzan Ryu Jujutsu). I also happen to be a Collegiate Wrestler. The opposite is true as well, I've encountered BJJ White Belts who can submit me without even trying. I believe Sensei Seth and IcyMike have talked about the Watering down of BJJ, and in many Gyms that's true more than ever. It's sad that one of the best grappling arts on the planet is suffering this.
A thousand views, no dislikes
Love it
Love this guy.
Actually in my town there is a KickBoxing gym where they claim to have like 6 world champions just to bait people to go in there, one of these "champions" just train 3 hours for week, that's ridicolous. The training is just jumping rope, shadowbox and sparring. They suck at throwing any technique, they all have bad form. Some of them are my friends, they didn't knew even how to hold pads correctly, I'm glad I have opened their eyes and they have changed gym since then. What causes McDojo to exist are liars who just want to get some money, whether it's a TMA or combat sport.
Bad news, Ramsey. There are actually Boxing mcdojos. In my area there are some clubs selling themselves as boxing gyms but all they do bag work for an hour and have zero sparring.
Hard disagree here. If the definition of a mcdojo is "a place that doesn't teach you combat applicable techniques but pretends like it does" then actually the vast majority of boxing gyms are mcdojos.
Most boxing gyms today are non-contact boxing because that tends to be the most popular form of boxing among consumers. You come in, do some jump rope, learn the 3-4 combos of the day, practice them on a heavy bag, maybe do a little basic focus mitt work, then do some bodyweight exercises in between or after. But there are very very few boxing gyms around anymore that teach boxing as a martial art. Believe me, I'm a boxer and it's a struggle to find a place to train when I travel.
I was Title “Boxing” club’s latest victim. I was duped into thinking that they would train me to be a fighter.
They then dropped the ball on me and said they don’t allow sparring of any kind.
Boxing, Judo, Wrestling, BJJ, Muay Thai, all have one big thing in common; they will humble you. I remember the first punch that really rung my bell. And the first time my breath was knocked out by a Judo throw. You don't really get humbled in most mcdojos. I think allot of our culture is missing a little humility.
I got the opportunity to go to a boxing gym run by a very famous boxer from my city, wen my sparing time came up , kept giving him my best jab , which he deflected using the philly shell, then the sneaky git slipped , and give a gentle under my ribcage , well of course I went down like a popped balloon. He just said "wat u doin down there😅
When I first started boxing the trainer got me in the ring and gave me a working over. As he explained later " I always give new comers a bit of pain, if they have the heart for it they'll be back next week
Look, it’s like my old coach said. “You play baseball. You play basketball. You don’t play Boxing”
Perhaps you are unaware but there are quite a few "non-sparring" boxing centres springing up where most of the instructors are don't have a lot of boxing experience (more like fitness instructor type certifications) and the majority of clients are women who just punch pads, etc. 90% of participants do not compete and many are just there to get a 30 minute workout in.
I think the fact that boxing has no belts has made it extremely resistant to McDojo syndrome. Without belts, there's no real way of proving your worth other than being a good fighter. TMA just has not been good at quality control. It's actually very similar to the Stormtrooper Corps in the Star Wars Expanded Universe. The quality of stormtrooper recruits was very hit or miss. Their fighting capabilities depended on the academy they went to.
I do want to put it out there I do NOT intend to invalidate TMAs: they can be good. As a matter of fact, I started with TKD, and I can say I did learn fighting. My teacher taught us boxing in class as well as fighting with our guards up. So much so that a guy at my college's gym asked why I didn't fight with my hands down, because I told him my art was taekwondo. It's about not falling into a cult mentality and really asking yourself if you are learning what you should about combat.
Boxing McDojo? Where would I find one? I even had a hard time to find a boxing gym at all where I live. I can find BJJ and MMA gyms everywhere but a pure boxing gym? I finally found one and probably to your surprise, we don't get on the ring at all. You can only after you get to the advanced level, are deemed ready and have the equipment for that. I had been going there for a year before the pandemic lock down and we followed the same routine every time, heavy bag, conditioning, footwork, techniques (offense and defense) and that's almost enough to kill me every time. Real hard work.
I am a proud master of the art of Rex Kwon Do! All it took me was $300 for an 8 week program! BOW TO YOUR SENSAI!
Boxercise classes - there you go.
I'm stealing your basketball analogy. That was perfict.
Nah! You can’t Mac.Dojo a Boxing gym. I believe whoever the trainer is, is run by a boxer or ex boxer themselves and the coach has too much pride in their expertise and knowledge. So when they train kids , teens and adults. They train them what they know. To become a fighter or a better person to protect themselves, have that mental toughness to be able to handle themselves. And a lot is on the line. Of the gym as well, reputation, credibility and pride of the gym and who trained them and the quality of students. That goes with Muy Thai as well. And also the grappling / wrestling arts - like Judo, Jiu-Jitsu, Shua Jao, Sambo , San Shou, Wrestling ( freestyle, Greco Roman, Folk Style, Lankgashire, Mongolian, Catch, Submission) etc....but you’re right about boxing and put Muy Thai in there as well.
Great video 👍🏼
You could say the closest equivalent of a boxing McDojo would be "boxercise " classes. Whilst they are great for cardio and you may even learn how to throw a decent punch, they don't incorporate sparring. But then no-one in their right mind who does just boxercise classes would claim to be a good boxer.
Wouldn't it be funny if there was a post-apocalypse story where basketball movements is practiced as a martial art because nobody remembers how they were actually used?
For pro boxers, it's a job so they put in a LOT of time and have plenty of time since its all they do, but point taken. Its thought the intense cardio serves one well in deep water, IE the later rounds. Some guys dropped long road work and did longer sprints, 220's/440's for example.
My boxing school does has some kata'ish work :) its more of a frame to get beginners to do more slips, and duck unders instead of just hands but it really works well.
Hell!! Where I'm from in Tennessee there are hardly any boxing gyms left anymore. I mean not even at the YMCA's like when I was a kid. It's like they've all been replaced with bjj or mma. Judo is also pretty popular here in East Tennessee but there are only like one or two real deal boxing gyms. It's really sad actually because boxing here in the West back in the day was pretty much the main thing that was usually passed down from father to son and then you go to the YMCA and golden gloves. And if your really good and enjoy it you get into the Amateur and then maybe professional.
Boxing kata....is a real thing - it's called shadow boxing. But...boxing is real, you can't fake boxing. I love it.
I never thought about road work making one mentally strong
just because it's WORKED doesn't mean it's a dance that anyone can do. you still have to have the fundamentals or you simply cannot do the thing. Boxing has been WORKED for decades, but it still requires a VERY specific skillset.
Perfect answer.
Probably because there is no such thing as a boxing mcdojo. I'm totally responding before the video even starts it's still in the middle of the ad LOL
Well, for one, I'd say there are boxing mcdojos. Look at most of these boxercise classes. I had a girl tell me that she "used to box", when she hadn't actually made contact with anyone's face. Another thing I would say boxing has to its credit, similar to Muay Thai and wrestling, is a lack of ranks/belts. A lot of people see black belts as the end all be all, as if having a black belt is what you need to be good at fighting. Boxing gives you no such delusions, and also weeds out the people that see things through that lens.
I would call it a Boxing MacGym.
It's an interesting topic and your points are great. I think it's also about the grass roots type of people that get into the sport that keep it strong. For example here in the UK it's common for parents to choose to get a child into karate/TKD etc but don't know what they are looking at, so they can't identify a belt farm McDojo as apposed to a competent school.
Boxing by comparison seems to be something that parents only tend to put a child into if the parent is very specifically a fan, or even an ex-practitioner. Typically they are much better educated on what they should be looking for and spending their money on. So boxing McDojos don't flourish from the easy money if you get what I mean.
I think the closest thing I've seen in the sport is boxercise classes, but those at least don't tend to try to masquerade themselves as real boxing, so it's not so much of a issue.
Side note nothing makes me more depressed than finding a western style kickboxing gym with the long trousers, a belt system, and no sparring/clinch that claims they teach Muay Thai. They don't please stop, call a spade a spade don't try and con people lol.