A Stage I makes your engine breathe easier, but since you're not doing anything to the motor that requires a higher flow, there's only minimal performance gains. Something like 2-3 hp and 1-2 ft lbs. If a Stage I is all you're doing, you're basically doing it for the looks and the exhaust note. Stage II adds a new camshaft, and this is where you first notice increased performance. The cam will increase valve lift and duration. This is where your upgraded intake and exhaust come into play. It'll also add that typical stuttering V-twin exhaust noise at idle. A Stage II is the best bang for your buck as in performance/dollar. Stage III increases engine displacement from 107ci to 114ci, or from 114ci to 117ci, and is recommended for people who ride heavy: Two-up, or with lots of luggage. It lets the bike perform well under heavy loads. Riding solo, a Stage III provides the most low-end torque of all the stages. It is an expensive upgrade, since most of the engine will need to be taken apart. Stage IV upgrades the cylinder heads with stiffer valve springs, and increased intake flow. It is only recommended for people who like to ride their bike close to redline. If you generally find yourself spinning the motor at 4,500 RPM or more, this is the kit for you. It's the most expensive kit, and has the best peak hp numbers, but sacrifices low-end everyday performance for high-end peak performance. This kit shines when you're drag racing your friends. The new Stage IV big bore kits from Harley bump displacement up from 107ci/114ci to 128ci, and from 114ci/117ci to 131ci. They provide the best in torque and power Harley has to offer while still remaining within EPA guidelines. If true performance is what you're after, aftermarket parts is where it's at. Zipper, S&S, Feuling, and Wood provide better camshafts than Harley does. DynoJet, TTS, and Thundermax offer better tuners than Harley, and S&S and Fuel Moto offer bigger displacements kits: 107ci to 124ci, and 114ci to 128ci. An aftermarket Stage II performs similar to the Harley big bore kits. Stage III and IV exceed anything Harley parts can offer. There is again a trade off though. More power introduces more wear to engine parts. You should consider upgrading more parts than you would with a Harley Stage III or IV, like the clutch, oil pump and cam plate, compensator, and essential rocker studs and head bolts. Aftermarket parts may void your factory warranty.
I have a 2017 Road King with the M8 and have basically fallen in love with it. I left it completely stock for 2 years till the factory warranty was up then went straight to the Stage 2 with aftermarket parts. What a huge difference it made. Just found your channel today and subscribed..
@@ppuntrotzooizooi7692 I decatted the headpipe put a set of S&S MK45' slipons on it. Went with a DK Customs air filter set up with external vents. For a cam I used the S&S 475C then just paid Dynojet there license fee and had a good Dyno done by an Indy. This combination really woke the bike up and made it just a real joy to ride.
I got a 2018 Road King. Just did the Stage 1 so far but installed the Vance & Hines FP3 tuner on it. I downloaded a map and flashed it to the ECM. It did wonders for the bike. It really woke it up. It’s not sluggish like it was. I turned off the speed limiter and adjusted the throttle to be a bit more sensitive. Once it’s ready for the 100k-120K rebuild, I’ll be doing a Stage 2.
Thanks Joey. I just did a Stage I on my 2019 114 Ultra Limited, and I am loving life with it, what a difference. Now of course I am toying with the idea of going Stage II. Big money investment, and I am hearing more Pro's than Cons as I am researching it.
Just completed a stage 1 on my Sport glide...I agree with your sentiments relating to the stage 1...it improved the sound and performance noticeably. Getting stage 2 done in a few weeks..hoping to notice a more lumpy rumble from my Rinehart when its done. Cheers for the video👌
Same as me, I got a Sport Glide and a Stage 1 but looking at the next step, Stage 2. It was 8 months ago since you posted, how's the Stage 2 upgrade? Are you considering Stage 3 and maybe 4?
@@RidesForDays Thanks for your reply, and I'm glad to see Stage 2 made a difference and that should be enough for me too. I too would like to have more lumpy rumble from my Rinehart pipes, and faster overtaking ability.
Why not just buy a better and more powerful bike in the first place.Something like a BM 1250 boxer= comfortable tourer,135 bhp straight out of shop .Harley are considered a bit of a joke in Europe,and M8 engine seems full of poor parts and problems.A company that has built bikes for 120 yrs ,and costs premium money,just not good enough.
That has to be the best upgrade video ive seen on here. Down to earth simple advice on your experience doing upgrades. Now i need to spend some cash ! Thanks !
I just bought a 2020 Road King 107 M8 and did a Stage 1 before i collected bike but in addition to Slipons, Air Cleaner, Power Vision etc I also replaced the Headers with Jackpot 2.5 Ceramic Coated header pipes to give better air flow and get rid of the Cat Converters. When I sent it back for its first service I did the Stage 2 Torque cam and have on the Dyno..Got a little better numbers but not much which may be due to replacing the headers, not sure if that was value for money as they cost $1400 NZD but at least I got rid of the Cat ConvertersOnly bad thing was having to ride home with my new Stage 2 in pouring rain for 2 hours....LOL...Interesting how gentle you need to be with all that new grunt....Am I pleased with it...You bet !!!! I also added a set of Ciro rear end light fillers and bag Beezels and they look great. Replaced all front lights with LED's, changed seat to a Tall Boy, ISO Grips, Willy G badges and axle nut covers, Willey G Floor Boards and Brake pedal, Air Deflectors, Head Light trims, Carrier, Pillion Backrest, 4 point docking to allow topbox and was wrapped to find my King Tour Pak I set up for my 2010 Road King actually fits the new bike so just need to get it painted, I put on Vance & Hines Hi Flow pipes and with the Torque cam it sounds so much better than with just the Stage 1. This beast accelerates like a rocket, great for passing ....Cheers from Down Under here in New Zealand
I know this an older vid, I just bought my Glide and opted for the Stage 1 at first service. This video helped explain a couple of things, thank you. I’m in the Dothan area, so I agree about shopping around for a deal as well.
I have a 2017 FLTRU . I went straight to a SE stage 2 with harley pro tuner with Khromewerks 4.5 2 into 2 exhaust. Skipped stage 1. Ran it for a year. HD dealer did a shitty job tuning it. After I had the SE cam removed and had a woods 22x cam installed. Upgraded the cam chest with S&S oil pump and cam plate. Replaced pushrods lifters tappets and cuffs to s& s products. A night and day. Getting 116 hp with 140 torque.
People need to understand the differences between torque and horsepower, torque is measured, horsepower is calculated, anytime an engine is put on a dyno, it's torque that's being measured and then horsepower is calculated, think of horsepower as torque x rpm, as the torque curve(of the engine over a given rpm range) is moved higher in the rev range of an engine the horsepower calculation will be greater than the horsepower of a lower rpm torque curve. So if someone chooses the "power" cam, remember the torque curve of the engine will be in the higher rpm range and the lower rpm range can feel somewhat sluggish or lazy until the rpms increase(unless one lowers the gear ratios in order to get the engine into the higher rpm registers quicker), so it all depends on the type of riding, are you someone who likes to cruise(torque cam) or are you an aggressive rider(power cam) who spends most of the time riding aggressively?
Tuners are optional for stage 1. The map system will adjust the air fuel mixture by 10% and going to stage 2 is a definitive tuner because you're above that 10% for a stage 1.
Mann I remember watching this last year, so over the winter I got the STAGE 1. Two days ago I dropped my Road Glide off to get the STAGE 2. Before I got the STAGE 1 when it was new I had already got the slip on mufflers added. 👍🏽👍🏽✌🏽
Did you have them change out your oil pump and if so was that included in the price? I heard the 2017's, 2018's & 2019's are having problems with the oil pump? please respond? thank you
i have a harley 2018 tri glide ultra 107 engine motor went due to sumping issue they had to replace everything but case and heads if you dont have a 2021 or later keep the warranty unless you replace oil pump. Also i just learned and did renew my warranty for another 5 yrs was tad costly 5600 but honestly all the problems i had its worth it also i just did stage 2 upgrade much needed on trike and aslong as harley did all the work it will stay under warranty also have to use screamin eagle parts from harley you could get way more out of redshift ss cam star racing torque and Hp but then wont be covered so why i decided to go with screamin eagle cam for the warrenty. Side not in the 5 yrs i owned the bike including gauges tire, engine replacements under warranty added up all my reciepts was basically 17thousand roughly in warranty work. I can do maintance work but as far as tearing down engine i just dont have the desire. BTW i should have mentioned the rules for renewing the extended warranty threw harley you can do it up to 15 yrs total 5 yr blocks the condition is cant do it after 60k miles im at 50k already so this will be my last renewal of the warranty anyways that is my 2 cents
One alternative for the stage 1/stage 2 using Screamin Eagle parts, is to go stage 1 through Fuel Moto. New head pipe without the catalytic converter. Slip-ons of your choice, and a PowerVision with Target Tune. Had a chance to do a dyno session and came up with 86hp and 106ft-lbs. The fun part was seeing the engine pull all the way through 4000rpm before dropping off. Not bad for a cooler running stage 1. The stage 2 still beats me on power and torque, but not by much. Yeah, the warranty is gone at that point, so that’s really a gut check decision. But I couldn’t be happier. One thing I will say, is don’t believe the hype about removing the catalytic converter will remove the heat on the right side. Maybe on a Softail model, but not on a bagger where the saddlebags slow down the air moving past your legs. The heat is still there. But it’s not on the engine. I’ve seen temps drop 15-30 degrees on the engine since removal depending on if I’m running the lower fairings or not.
so,,, you're saying the stage 1 is where a customer gets the big jump in power and stage 2 is a smaller gain? Because I haven't seen numbers to support that.
@@jibboom2112 No, that’s not what I said. Not even close. Go back and read the first sentence where I said an alternative to using Screamin Eagle parts. The stage 1 I used was aftermarket head pipe, aftermarket tuner, aftermarket wide bands, and coupled that with a Harley Heavy Breather. My gains were 7hp and right at 6ft-lbs, aided no doubt due to the fact I am 300ft above sea level. Now, considering that pretty much every dyno I have ever seen for a M8 107 stage 2 using all Screamin Eagle parts shows around 92-94hp and 108-110ft-lbs of torque, I’d say that compliments another statement I made, that the stage 2 numbers are better but not by much. That being said, since that post I actually went stage 2 with a Wood M8-222 cam. The bike now puts down 111hp and 110ft-lbs. All of these figures are as you can guess at different rpm ranges, and don’t necessarily reflect how the bike performs off the dyno and on the road. What I’m talking about is the law of diminishing returns. Of course if you take delivery of your bike with a stage 2 already installed, then you will have gained whatever horsepower and torque values that come with the kit you have purchased. But there is a lot of value in a less restrictive exhaust and a good dyno tune. And there plenty of data to back that up.
Great video. I'm really digging your channel. I noticed on the dyno sheet you posted that it specifies a Power Cam, not a Torque Cam. Do you know if they just typed it in wrong on the dyno sheet or if they possibly gave you the wrong tune since your HP increased at a higher percentage than your torque? Keep up the great videos!!
@@JoeyMcCullough It will be interesting to hear what they say. BTW, I live in the New Orleans area and have a Road King Special. Been to the Slidell HD dealership many times.
Great info... Thanks. If one does not have the money or know-how, leave the Bike stock... Really can't speak about this with authority as I do not own a Harley. Yet... However, thinking about it, will have a Stage 1 & 2 installed without fail and leave it unmarked-no badging when I get My Bike.
If I ever get another Harley-Davidson motorcycle I hope to be able to do a Stage II. If it is a Touring bike it will get a Power Cam but if it is a Softail it will probably get a Torque cam. But right now I am low on funds and unemployed so I will remain satisfied with my 2002 Fatboy with what amounts to a Stage II.
Going to get stage 2 during the first check up at the 1000 mile mark. Everything I read says that there’s no good reason why it wasn’t the default at delivery.
I just got my first bike a few weeks ago. A 2005 Road King Special. I’m new to riding, so I think I’ll leave here alone for at least a year😂. I have no warranty it at all I bought as is…………. What the heck! I think I will at least do the stage one, why not🤷🏽♂️. For all I know, it may already have a stage one set up. Maybe even a stage 2, I don’t know. I don’t know anything about motorcycles. The bike is already 19 years old. I’m sure it has something in it🤔.
Thanks for posting bought my new road bike for simply long-disting touring do not want a whole lot of noise it always tease me off about Harley-Davidson make it a $30,000 plus by then you have to pay more money to make it run just my opinion and I am a Harley van
The best thing you can do is leave your bike bone stock. Adding any stage will make your engine burn dirty and you will see it in how quickly the oil gets dirty. Then the heat will increase that is the rule. Trading the bike in or reselling it you will have a bike worth more if you keep it stock. If you keep it stock you will have a much smoother running bike also. Especially if you keep it for 20 to 30k you will notice smoother shifting also. I have owned 12 Harleys and I can say save your money and you will have a better bike.
Intake , slip ons and a tuner make your engine run CLEANER and more efficient. So you are wrong. I have 50k on my 17 SGS with a 107 without ANY issues. Oil is not black when it's changed. Darker than new , but NOT black.
Yea just adding a good tuner will make run cooler and better but will say the M8 isn’t leaned out as bad as the twin cam was but I do agree by adding more cubic inches does kinda take away reliability especially when you start making a lot of power everything becomes tighter tolerances so things does start breaking and it will
Coming from a 2015 Limited I’m new to the Milwaukee 8 but wow, is it an improvement. I recently got a 2017 RoadGlide Ultra with the 107 and 3,900 miles. Prior owner had StreetCannon mufflers installed but air cleaner looks stock and I don’t know if there was a tune done. That engine really performs well. The roll on/passing power is noticeably better. While I’m thrilled with the power, I’ve considered going Stage 2. Really enjoying your channel and this video was just what I was looking for. Ride safe.
Great review Joey! My 107 has stage1 screaming eagle mufflers and filter, tune. Which torque cam did you put in? Myself thinking about these: 1] Wood WM8-22XE cam 2] Zippers Red Shift 468 cam 3] S&S 475 cam (100 pk) 4] SE515 cam 5] SE447 cam With one of those, i change out the oilpump, cam bearing, cam plate, cuffs, lifters, adjustable pushrods for S&S also.. Which cam would you choose/recommend? (Maybe others than those?)
I’d love to have the 107 making more power but I alreay dumped 10k going big turbo with meth on my car so the bike is remaining relatively stock except for a few things I did to it (2019 FLHR)
I got a stage 1 before i picked my 2020 RG up had my first service I'll be getting a stage 2 very soon the stage 1 don't give you the power but it fine tune the motor.
Thats the only way i would go...is upgrading to a 114 from my 103....The stage 1 and stage 2 numbers on the 107 arent that much more than the Stage 1 and 2 numbers on the 103...Yes the 107 is a better...smoother and cooler running engine than my 103 but its paid for and if i trade it in along with 12K....Its gotta be in the 114
Those are pretty good numbers for being a Harley screaming eagle cam. I love my 07 Road King. Best bike in the lineup in my humble opinion. Ride safe. 👍
was at my local dealer today looking to trade my 18 SG with a full stage 2 for a 21 SG dealer demo with 10k in mods and my salesman said when I asked him if I get more money of trade with a stage 2.He said that it's like thankyou for doing that but not really. All I was thinking was that I better get top dollar for my trade if you are going to sell me a bike with 10k in mods for retail. The price of the demo came out to be over $43k. So where does all that money go when I want to trade that bike in?
Fuggn hell. Stage 2 badge. I’ll have to get one , and matching Harley dog bowl, hose nozzle, wallet, coffee cup and bandana for my leather clad ol lady who dresses in Johnny Reb boots.
I can’t believe the moco can’t include the badge Gonna do the SS stage 2 with provision tuner over the winter (depends on funds but hopefully) I have an early 2019 FLHR and currently have fluid migration issues (ordered the fat clutch pushrod fix) and some decent blow by but there normal tho so I’m told .. how did your air filter look at say 8000miles ?
Did the screamin’ eagle torque cam make the bike a lot louder ? I was really happy with the volume of stage 1. I got the S&S 475c cam and it’s so loud now it’s annoying, it’s a huge jump in volume
I'm waiting on my 21 Road Glide to arrive. (Any day now). My question is.. I was under the impression that only HD could do your stage upgrades in the first 2 years (while under warranty) Am I misinformed?
That’s correct. I just ordered my 21 road glide and am patiently waiting for the parts to be installed so I can hit the road. If you install any stage upgrade within 60 days like the video said you’re covered under the warranty.
Get an M8 from 2020 or above and your good oilpump wise. 2017-2019 is better to change oilpump out for S&S or Fueling. With cam bearing, cam plate, cuffs, lifters, adjustable pushrods. S&S has a kit. And, let your transmission cover breathe air at the top by putting in a little hose. That way the oil pressure/chance to have transmission oil at the primary reduces pressure/is not the case.
I was curious about how far I actually am reving mine out when I lay into it.. I don’t think I’ve ever taken it past 4k rpm. It runs out of puff by then and I’ve nebrr redlined my HDs. Maybe with a power cam it would make me want to reel it out more but I think I’d do the torque one if I ever started in the power chase on the bike (I already do that with my car whyxh would blow my bike out of the water). One more comment … wtf Harley ? Can’t even throw in a damn timing cover to go with a $2k mod ?
Hi Joey. Just to let you know when & I know this is an old content of yours but I just died laughing when you gave the prices for stage one and stage two. Stage one minimum 3000 to 3500. If you do it right and you put good stuff on your bike.
The bike will need a new cam for each stage 3, and stage 4. So by upgrading it consecutively, people will lose money on stage 2 and 3 for new cam and labour.
I say NO. Over 90 percent just wash, change the oil and maintain and ride their Harley Harley Davidson motorcycles. Instead of spending extra money in a motor that’s not gonna do any better than stock anyway. I change my oil twice a year with my last 96 motor having over 93k on it before I sold it. Oil changes is my holy grail and not loosing ride time with bike on a lift. HD’s are not performance machines like BMW, Honda Goldwing, and the Indian Challenger due to their hot air cooled, bottom end cams, primary chain in oil with pushrods. All I did to my HOGS was slip on mufflers, fan assist oil coolers, larger air cleaner.
@@wingandhog thanx for your time the whole "stage one is required" is what I'm suspicious of. I just watched a guy that "tuned" his 114 and lost power. And the shop told him it was typical.
The 107 has a shorter stroke and puts up some pretty crazy numbers when built. 107 is also a bit cheaper than 114+ engines because nobody buys the dam things.
The Harley tune as everyone knows is weak, in comparison to an out of warranty build. Don't waste your money on SE parts and whatever you do, avoid the HD warranty. You can buy an aftermarket warranty that'll cover superior parts to SE with %30 better numbers but this isn't anything new. My 2002 Night Train is a stage 4 95"using a bolt in cam pushing 100/100 so you can imagine the power that is being left on the table with that 107. Even worse, you're paying interest on the SE parts if you roll them into the loan, now that's a kick in the nuts lol. Good video though, thanks for your time.
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Thanks Joey! Going to do stage 2 I. A couple of months. Enjoying your channel.
Thanks for watching; you are going to love the stage 2 upgrade.
A Stage I makes your engine breathe easier, but since you're not doing anything to the motor that requires a higher flow, there's only minimal performance gains. Something like 2-3 hp and 1-2 ft lbs. If a Stage I is all you're doing, you're basically doing it for the looks and the exhaust note.
Stage II adds a new camshaft, and this is where you first notice increased performance. The cam will increase valve lift and duration. This is where your upgraded intake and exhaust come into play. It'll also add that typical stuttering V-twin exhaust noise at idle. A Stage II is the best bang for your buck as in performance/dollar.
Stage III increases engine displacement from 107ci to 114ci, or from 114ci to 117ci, and is recommended for people who ride heavy: Two-up, or with lots of luggage. It lets the bike perform well under heavy loads. Riding solo, a Stage III provides the most low-end torque of all the stages. It is an expensive upgrade, since most of the engine will need to be taken apart.
Stage IV upgrades the cylinder heads with stiffer valve springs, and increased intake flow. It is only recommended for people who like to ride their bike close to redline. If you generally find yourself spinning the motor at 4,500 RPM or more, this is the kit for you. It's the most expensive kit, and has the best peak hp numbers, but sacrifices low-end everyday performance for high-end peak performance. This kit shines when you're drag racing your friends.
The new Stage IV big bore kits from Harley bump displacement up from 107ci/114ci to 128ci, and from 114ci/117ci to 131ci. They provide the best in torque and power Harley has to offer while still remaining within EPA guidelines.
If true performance is what you're after, aftermarket parts is where it's at. Zipper, S&S, Feuling, and Wood provide better camshafts than Harley does. DynoJet, TTS, and Thundermax offer better tuners than Harley, and S&S and Fuel Moto offer bigger displacements kits: 107ci to 124ci, and 114ci to 128ci. An aftermarket Stage II performs similar to the Harley big bore kits. Stage III and IV exceed anything Harley parts can offer. There is again a trade off though. More power introduces more wear to engine parts. You should consider upgrading more parts than you would with a Harley Stage III or IV, like the clutch, oil pump and cam plate, compensator, and essential rocker studs and head bolts. Aftermarket parts may void your factory warranty.
Great thanks, this is the best explanation that I have come across so far
Extremely valuable info and said in a way that's easy to follow. Thank you.
this seems correct , feel good factor only ,, NO big gain
Badges? We don’t need no steenkin’ badges. We’re federales!
- Treasure of the Sierra Madre
For those of us who are in the planning stages of owning a Harley , this is essential knowledge . Thank you , sir .
I have a 2017 Road King with the M8 and have basically fallen in love with it. I left it completely stock for 2 years till the factory warranty was up then went straight to the Stage 2 with aftermarket parts. What a huge difference it made. Just found your channel today and subscribed..
Great! I have basically the same bike, just the special. Which cam and other parts did you put in?
@@ppuntrotzooizooi7692 I decatted the headpipe put a set of S&S MK45' slipons on it. Went with a DK Customs air filter set up with external vents. For a cam I used the S&S 475C then just paid Dynojet there license fee and had a good Dyno done by an Indy. This combination really woke the bike up and made it just a real joy to ride.
@@dennisgriffith2670 Nice! Thanks for your answer, this gives me a good insight. 👍
I got a 2018 Road King. Just did the Stage 1 so far but installed the Vance & Hines FP3 tuner on it. I downloaded a map and flashed it to the ECM. It did wonders for the bike. It really woke it up. It’s not sluggish like it was. I turned off the speed limiter and adjusted the throttle to be a bit more sensitive. Once it’s ready for the 100k-120K rebuild, I’ll be doing a Stage 2.
Thanks Joey. I just did a Stage I on my 2019 114 Ultra Limited, and I am loving life with it, what a difference. Now of course I am toying with the idea of going Stage II. Big money investment, and I am hearing more Pro's than Cons as I am researching it.
Just completed a stage 1 on my Sport glide...I agree with your sentiments relating to the stage 1...it improved the sound and performance noticeably. Getting stage 2 done in a few weeks..hoping to notice a more lumpy rumble from my Rinehart when its done.
Cheers for the video👌
Same as me, I got a Sport Glide and a Stage 1 but looking at the next step, Stage 2. It was 8 months ago since you posted, how's the Stage 2 upgrade? Are you considering Stage 3 and maybe 4?
@@RongoBentson happy with the stage 2 it's more than enough power for me
@@RidesForDays Thanks for your reply, and I'm glad to see Stage 2 made a difference and that should be enough for me too. I too would like to have more lumpy rumble from my Rinehart pipes, and faster overtaking ability.
Why not just buy a better and more powerful bike in the first place.Something like a BM 1250 boxer= comfortable tourer,135 bhp straight out of shop .Harley are considered a bit of a joke in Europe,and M8 engine seems full of poor parts and problems.A company that has built bikes for 120 yrs ,and costs premium money,just not good enough.
Thanks I’m arguing in my head about 107-114 but for the price I’m thinking after watching this 107 stage two
Good video. I had Stage 2 done on my Sport Glide. Worth the price of admission. Love the results. Take care.
That has to be the best upgrade video ive seen on here. Down to earth simple advice on your experience doing upgrades. Now i need to spend some cash ! Thanks !
Thanks Moe, trust me when I say you will love your bike more when you do any stage upgrade.
I just bought a 2020 Road King 107 M8 and did a Stage 1 before i collected bike but in addition to Slipons, Air Cleaner, Power Vision etc I also replaced the Headers with Jackpot 2.5 Ceramic Coated header pipes to give better air flow and get rid of the Cat Converters. When I sent it back for its first service I did the Stage 2 Torque cam and have on the Dyno..Got a little better numbers but not much which may be due to replacing the headers, not sure if that was value for money as they cost $1400 NZD but at least I got rid of the Cat ConvertersOnly bad thing was having to ride home with my new Stage 2 in pouring rain for 2 hours....LOL...Interesting how gentle you need to be with all that new grunt....Am I pleased with it...You bet !!!! I also added a set of Ciro rear end light fillers and bag Beezels and they look great. Replaced all front lights with LED's, changed seat to a Tall Boy, ISO Grips, Willy G badges and axle nut covers, Willey G Floor Boards and Brake pedal, Air Deflectors, Head Light trims, Carrier, Pillion Backrest, 4 point docking to allow topbox and was wrapped to find my King Tour Pak I set up for my 2010 Road King actually fits the new bike so just need to get it painted, I put on Vance & Hines Hi Flow pipes and with the Torque cam it sounds so much better than with just the Stage 1. This beast accelerates like a rocket, great for passing ....Cheers from Down Under here in New Zealand
I know this an older vid, I just bought my Glide and opted for the Stage 1 at first service. This video helped explain a couple of things, thank you. I’m in the Dothan area, so I agree about shopping around for a deal as well.
I have a 2017 FLTRU . I went straight to a SE stage 2 with harley pro tuner with Khromewerks 4.5 2 into 2 exhaust. Skipped stage 1. Ran it for a year. HD dealer did a shitty job tuning it. After I had the SE cam removed and had a woods 22x cam installed. Upgraded the cam chest with S&S oil pump and cam plate. Replaced pushrods lifters tappets and cuffs to s& s products. A night and day. Getting 116 hp with 140 torque.
People need to understand the differences between torque and horsepower, torque is measured, horsepower is calculated, anytime an engine is put on a dyno, it's torque that's being measured and then horsepower is calculated, think of horsepower as torque x rpm, as the torque curve(of the engine over a given rpm range) is moved higher in the rev range of an engine the horsepower calculation will be greater than the horsepower of a lower rpm torque curve. So if someone chooses the "power" cam, remember the torque curve of the engine will be in the higher rpm range and the lower rpm range can feel somewhat sluggish or lazy until the rpms increase(unless one lowers the gear ratios in order to get the engine into the higher rpm registers quicker), so it all depends on the type of riding, are you someone who likes to cruise(torque cam) or are you an aggressive rider(power cam) who spends most of the time riding aggressively?
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience.
Tuners are optional for stage 1.
The map system will adjust the air fuel mixture by 10% and going to stage 2 is a definitive tuner because you're above that 10% for a stage 1.
Mann I remember watching this last year, so over the winter I got the STAGE 1. Two days ago I dropped my Road Glide off to get the STAGE 2. Before I got the STAGE 1 when it was new I had already got the slip on mufflers added. 👍🏽👍🏽✌🏽
Did you have them change out your oil pump and if so was that included in the price? I heard the 2017's, 2018's & 2019's are having problems with the oil pump? please respond? thank you
The charts I've seen on torque cams show a change but only past 3000 rpm. Nobody shifts past 3000 rpm unless they're racing.
i have a harley 2018 tri glide ultra 107 engine motor went due to sumping issue they had to replace everything but case and heads if you dont have a 2021 or later keep the warranty unless you replace oil pump. Also i just learned and did renew my warranty for another 5 yrs was tad costly 5600 but honestly all the problems i had its worth it also i just did stage 2 upgrade much needed on trike and aslong as harley did all the work it will stay under warranty also have to use screamin eagle parts from harley you could get way more out of redshift ss cam star racing torque and Hp but then wont be covered so why i decided to go with screamin eagle cam for the warrenty. Side not in the 5 yrs i owned the bike including gauges tire, engine replacements under warranty added up all my reciepts was basically 17thousand roughly in warranty work. I can do maintance work but as far as tearing down engine i just dont have the desire. BTW i should have mentioned the rules for renewing the extended warranty threw harley you can do it up to 15 yrs total 5 yr blocks the condition is cant do it after 60k miles im at 50k already so this will be my last renewal of the warranty anyways that is my 2 cents
One alternative for the stage 1/stage 2 using Screamin Eagle parts, is to go stage 1 through Fuel Moto. New head pipe without the catalytic converter. Slip-ons of your choice, and a PowerVision with Target Tune. Had a chance to do a dyno session and came up with 86hp and 106ft-lbs. The fun part was seeing the engine pull all the way through 4000rpm before dropping off. Not bad for a cooler running stage 1. The stage 2 still beats me on power and torque, but not by much. Yeah, the warranty is gone at that point, so that’s really a gut check decision. But I couldn’t be happier. One thing I will say, is don’t believe the hype about removing the catalytic converter will remove the heat on the right side. Maybe on a Softail model, but not on a bagger where the saddlebags slow down the air moving past your legs. The heat is still there. But it’s not on the engine. I’ve seen temps drop 15-30 degrees on the engine since removal depending on if I’m running the lower fairings or not.
so,,, you're saying the stage 1 is where a customer gets the big jump in power and stage 2 is a smaller gain?
Because I haven't seen numbers to support that.
@@jibboom2112 No, that’s not what I said. Not even close. Go back and read the first sentence where I said an alternative to using Screamin Eagle parts. The stage 1 I used was aftermarket head pipe, aftermarket tuner, aftermarket wide bands, and coupled that with a Harley Heavy Breather. My gains were 7hp and right at 6ft-lbs, aided no doubt due to the fact I am 300ft above sea level. Now, considering that pretty much every dyno I have ever seen for a M8 107 stage 2 using all Screamin Eagle parts shows around 92-94hp and 108-110ft-lbs of torque, I’d say that compliments another statement I made, that the stage 2 numbers are better but not by much. That being said, since that post I actually went stage 2 with a Wood M8-222 cam. The bike now puts down 111hp and 110ft-lbs. All of these figures are as you can guess at different rpm ranges, and don’t necessarily reflect how the bike performs off the dyno and on the road. What I’m talking about is the law of diminishing returns. Of course if you take delivery of your bike with a stage 2 already installed, then you will have gained whatever horsepower and torque values that come with the kit you have purchased. But there is a lot of value in a less restrictive exhaust and a good dyno tune. And there plenty of data to back that up.
@@crank1422 Yes Sir. Understood. Just clarifying
Great video. I'm really digging your channel. I noticed on the dyno sheet you posted that it specifies a Power Cam, not a Torque Cam. Do you know if they just typed it in wrong on the dyno sheet or if they possibly gave you the wrong tune since your HP increased at a higher percentage than your torque? Keep up the great videos!!
I just reviewed the paperwork and will ask when I go in to get my oil cooler fan flashed. I'll let you know what I find out. Thanks for watching!
@@JoeyMcCullough It will be interesting to hear what they say. BTW, I live in the New Orleans area and have a Road King Special. Been to the Slidell HD dealership many times.
They should make the badges screw on...not peel and stick
Great info... Thanks. If one does not have the money or know-how, leave the Bike stock... Really can't speak about this with authority as I do not own a Harley. Yet... However, thinking about it, will have a Stage 1 & 2 installed without fail and leave it unmarked-no badging when I get My Bike.
If I ever get another Harley-Davidson motorcycle I hope to be able to do a Stage II. If it is a Touring bike it will get a Power Cam but if it is a Softail it will probably get a Torque cam. But right now I am low on funds and unemployed so I will remain satisfied with my 2002 Fatboy with what amounts to a Stage II.
This is exactly why I put a Woods TW222 torque cam in my 103. I live in the real world, mostly under 4000.
Going to get stage 2 during the first check up at the 1000 mile mark. Everything I read says that there’s no good reason why it wasn’t the default at delivery.
Agree with you totally!!
I just got my first bike a few weeks ago. A 2005 Road King Special. I’m new to riding, so I think I’ll leave here alone for at least a year😂. I have no warranty it at all I bought as is…………. What the heck! I think I will at least do the stage one, why not🤷🏽♂️. For all I know, it may already have a stage one set up. Maybe even a stage 2, I don’t know. I don’t know anything about motorcycles. The bike is already 19 years old. I’m sure it has something in it🤔.
Thanks for posting bought my new road bike for simply long-disting touring do not want a whole lot of noise it always tease me off about Harley-Davidson make it a $30,000 plus by then you have to pay more money to make it run just my opinion and I am a Harley van
The best thing you can do is leave your bike bone stock. Adding any stage will make your engine burn dirty and you will see it in how quickly the oil gets dirty. Then the heat will increase that is the rule. Trading the bike in or reselling it you will have a bike worth more if you keep it stock. If you keep it stock you will have a much smoother running bike also. Especially if you keep it for 20 to 30k you will notice smoother shifting also. I have owned 12 Harleys and I can say save your money and you will have a better bike.
Intake , slip ons and a tuner make your engine run CLEANER and more efficient. So you are wrong. I have 50k on my 17 SGS with a 107 without ANY issues. Oil is not black when it's changed. Darker than new , but NOT black.
I just bought a 2022 softail, its my first harley, think i might just do a stage 1
Tuner is going to run cleaner than stock if you do it properly LOL
Question what about just adding true dual headers
Yea just adding a good tuner will make run cooler and better but will say the M8 isn’t leaned out as bad as the twin cam was but I do agree by adding more cubic inches does kinda take away reliability especially when you start making a lot of power everything becomes tighter tolerances so things does start breaking and it will
Coming from a 2015 Limited I’m new to the Milwaukee 8 but wow, is it an improvement. I recently got a 2017 RoadGlide Ultra with the 107 and 3,900 miles. Prior owner had StreetCannon mufflers installed but air cleaner looks stock and I don’t know if there was a tune done. That engine really performs well. The roll on/passing power is noticeably better. While I’m thrilled with the power, I’ve considered going Stage 2. Really enjoying your channel and this video was just what I was looking for. Ride safe.
Yes sir, I really appreciate you, thanks for sharing 🙏
Great review Joey! My 107 has stage1 screaming eagle mufflers and filter, tune. Which torque cam did you put in? Myself thinking about these:
1] Wood WM8-22XE cam
2] Zippers Red Shift 468 cam
3] S&S 475 cam (100 pk)
4] SE515 cam
5] SE447 cam
With one of those, i change out the oilpump, cam bearing, cam plate, cuffs, lifters, adjustable pushrods for S&S also..
Which cam would you choose/recommend? (Maybe others than those?)
I have the torque CAM; I would recommend.
I’d love to have the 107 making more power but I alreay dumped 10k going big turbo with meth on my car so the bike is remaining relatively stock except for a few things I did to it
(2019 FLHR)
I got a stage 1 before i picked my 2020 RG up had my first service I'll be getting a stage 2 very soon the stage 1 don't give you the power but it fine tune the motor.
Don't forget to upgrade the oil pump especially for a 17 - 19 M8
got the stage 2 on my 114 tri glide ...love it,great info thanks
Thats the only way i would go...is upgrading to a 114 from my 103....The stage 1 and stage 2 numbers on the 107 arent that much more than the Stage 1 and 2 numbers on the 103...Yes the 107 is a better...smoother and cooler running engine than my 103 but its paid for and if i trade it in along with 12K....Its gotta be in the 114
Thanks for the info, I live in Pace, FL!
Thanks for watching!!
Those are pretty good numbers for being a Harley screaming eagle cam. I love my 07 Road King. Best bike in the lineup in my humble opinion. Ride safe. 👍
was at my local dealer today looking to trade my 18 SG with a full stage 2 for a 21 SG dealer demo with 10k in mods and my salesman said when I asked him if I get more money of trade with a stage 2.He said that it's like thankyou for doing that but not really. All I was thinking was that I better get top dollar for my trade if you are going to sell me a bike with 10k in mods for retail. The price of the demo came out to be over $43k. So where does all that money go when I want to trade that bike in?
Pooooffff in the fire! Gone. 🔥
I was waiting for the rough estimate of what Stage 2 costs.
Fuggn hell. Stage 2 badge. I’ll have to get one , and matching Harley dog bowl, hose nozzle, wallet, coffee cup and bandana for my leather clad ol lady who dresses in Johnny Reb boots.
you are having too much fun. great looking bike!
I can’t believe the moco can’t include the badge
Gonna do the SS stage 2 with provision tuner over the winter (depends on funds but hopefully)
I have an early 2019 FLHR and currently have fluid migration issues (ordered the fat clutch pushrod fix) and some decent blow by but there normal tho so I’m told ..
how did your air filter look at say 8000miles ?
93hp/111tq
107
447 SE cam
55mm intake
Tab air cleaner and slip ons
SEPST (booooo)
However I’m actually blown away considering it’s SE parts
Did the screamin’ eagle torque cam make the bike a lot louder ? I was really happy with the volume of stage 1. I got the S&S 475c cam and it’s so loud now it’s annoying, it’s a huge jump in volume
Where did you get the dyno done at ?
Mobile Bay Alabama Harley Davidson; Thanks for watching.
Will a stage II upgrade on my 2019 breakout change the engine sound. Will it be louder?
Really informative, thank you
why don't ya put the price of the bike on the emblem?
I'm waiting on my 21 Road Glide to arrive. (Any day now). My question is.. I was under the impression that only HD could do your stage upgrades in the first 2 years (while under warranty) Am I misinformed?
That’s correct. I just ordered my 21 road glide and am patiently waiting for the parts to be installed so I can hit the road. If you install any stage upgrade within 60 days like the video said you’re covered under the warranty.
Stage 2 Will this end the sumping issue , is the counter balancer that slings oil not on the new cam?
Get an M8 from 2020 or above and your good oilpump wise. 2017-2019 is better to change oilpump out for S&S or Fueling. With cam bearing, cam plate, cuffs, lifters, adjustable pushrods. S&S has a kit. And, let your transmission cover breathe air at the top by putting in a little hose. That way the oil pressure/chance to have transmission oil at the primary reduces pressure/is not the case.
Awesome Information, I’m doing stage 2 next week on my 107 2019 Electra glide.
Do a 124” upgrade and your done! 145/150 easy! Food for thought!
Great video, good info 👍🏼
Awesome stuff
I was curious about how far I actually am reving mine out when I lay into it.. I don’t think I’ve ever taken it past 4k rpm. It runs out of puff by then and I’ve nebrr redlined my HDs. Maybe with a power cam it would make me want to reel it out more but I think I’d do the torque one if I ever started in the power chase on the bike (I already do that with my car whyxh would blow my bike out of the water).
One more comment … wtf Harley ? Can’t even throw in a damn timing cover to go with a $2k mod ?
Hi Joey. Just to let you know when & I know this is an old content of yours but I just died laughing when you gave the prices for stage one and stage two. Stage one minimum 3000 to 3500. If you do it right and you put good stuff on your bike.
The Stage II makes an M8 into a Harley. If you have to be the fastest, well I and II after the first ride will be a let down, so go higher.
With the costs of new bikes, I'm just adding a new cam to mine for more power.
So I went to Harley I already have a stage 1 and they want to charge me 2800 for a stage2
It has gone up, I believe it used to be 2k
14 hp up is huge jump on a HD
Nice. Now I don’t have to watch the whole video
Good video
You get more power and torque with a cam from Zipper's Performance. 107 hp and 115 ft lbs of torque.
My stage 2 fat bob made 102hp and 122ft tq….. and kept my warranty.
The bike will need a new cam for each stage 3, and stage 4. So by upgrading it consecutively, people will lose money on stage 2 and 3 for new cam and labour.
Did u do head pipes ?
I did not; just slip ons.
Remember fellas hp sells but torque wins
U did the power cam not the torque cam
Correct, I also saw it in the overview at the bottom line. Yet you told it was the torque version.
I say NO. Over 90 percent just wash, change the oil and maintain and ride their Harley Harley Davidson motorcycles. Instead of spending extra money in a motor that’s not gonna do any better than stock anyway. I change my oil twice a year with my last 96 motor having over 93k on it before I sold it. Oil changes is my holy grail and not loosing ride time with bike on a lift. HD’s are not performance machines like BMW, Honda Goldwing, and the Indian Challenger due to their hot air cooled, bottom end cams, primary chain in oil with pushrods. All I did to my HOGS was slip on mufflers, fan assist oil coolers, larger air cleaner.
Catalytic
Cadillac
Just ride. You dont need a decal to tell everyone that ya got lol.
That’s the fun adding personal touch. Thanks for watching!!
Why not? Its his bike and his money. Worry about your own
10:55 100hp, 109 torque...
A video showing how to put a badge on…. Wow
so thats 10 percent ,,, seems more realistic than 25 percent ;
How much for a stage ll
They run roughly $1000 but look for dealership sales. I received 15% off.
@@JoeyMcCullough assuming you already have the stage 1?
@@wingandhog I watched a video of a guy that just put a cam in his bike, no breather, no tuner. he claimed 99% of the performance.
@@wingandhog thanx for your time
the whole "stage one is required" is what I'm suspicious of.
I just watched a guy that "tuned" his 114 and lost power. And the shop told him it was typical.
What a waste of time.
Epa Crap
If you think you want a bigger cam for more horsepower then you should have ponied up and bought a bigger engine.
The 107 has a shorter stroke and puts up some pretty crazy numbers when built. 107 is also a bit cheaper than 114+ engines because nobody buys the dam things.
the stages are a waste of money.
Why do you say that Money Green? I am about to do a Stage 1 or Stage 2.
@@JudgeVandelay To troll probably.
Thinking of changing hugs to 128 or 131 or 135 , change flywheel to S&S for use of gear cams with S&S cam plate and oil pump.
$400 Plus Power Vision
$800 Plus XXX headers
$650 Slip ons Rinehart 4”
The Harley tune as everyone knows is weak, in comparison to an out of warranty build. Don't waste your money on SE parts and whatever you do, avoid the HD warranty. You can buy an aftermarket warranty that'll cover superior parts to SE with %30 better numbers but this isn't anything new. My 2002 Night Train is a stage 4 95"using a bolt in cam pushing 100/100 so you can imagine the power that is being left on the table with that 107. Even worse, you're paying interest on the SE parts if you roll them into the loan, now that's a kick in the nuts lol. Good video though, thanks for your time.