My understanding is that while there was no real notion that being gay was bad, it was something you did rather than something you were. And it was more like "ok thats fine, but you're still going to give me grandchildren though right?!" In fact, there was a line of emperors in the Han dynasty I think, who were very publically Bi and had male lovers. The "cut sleeve" story being one of the more famous ones. That said, as the west influenced China more, so came the homophobia...
Sorry, but that is just wrong. At best it was a naive belief introduced by people like Bret Hinsch and from one gay man to the other, I would like to punch this idiot in the face. I read his book and several later ones by other authors and they way they twist facts and sometimes outright lie to claim that "China" was so incredibly tolerant is just astounding. I saw them claim things as positive that if they were said today by someone it would be blatantly homophobic. In fact that story you mentioned would be one of them. It is not a romantic story, but a story about an emperor who gives titles to someone who doesn't deserve it simply because he fancies that guy and both are dead at the end of the story, one dies the other potentially driven to suicide by his enemies. And what was tolerated was an exploitation of minors and it wasn't nearly as common place as people make it out to be. At best, and really at its very best, "imperial china" was ambivalent about homosexual behavior, but that is no different than it had been in the West at the times. China didn't need western influence to become homophobic, it already was. And for such a sexist and patriarchal society, that is not surprising.
wait, I have 2 questions. 1) In Yanxi Palace, Qianlong suspects Empress Xiaoxian of having homosexual relationships with Consort Chun at one point. I never understood what those two were up to anyway. But was Qianlong's attitude in that story based on recorded history? 2) The law forbidding physical relationships with prostitutes. I watched an interview from a Chinese channel where a historian theorised that Qianlong had gifted a dragon-embroidered robe to a prostitute, who gallivanted about town in it, showing off the emperor's favour and bringing shame upon the royal family. And he shared his theory that this might have caused the crack in the relationship with the step-empress. What are your thoughts on this? Was the fact of an emperor visiting prostitutes more scandalous or the fact that he gave a dragon robe to one more extreme?
The Empress was trying to get pregnant despite not being in great health, and didn't want to tip off the palace physicians about how weak her health was, so she had Consort Chun use her medical knowledge to treat her instead.
@@SheBeastJehanne oooooohhhh wow.. Consort Chun in Yanxi Palace must have been a real prodigy at medicine. She even influenced Consort Yu to poison her own son with ginseng to frame Yingluo later on.
The way I was explained it was that male homosexuality in imperial China was considered more like a kink, which kind of makes sense for the time and is still miles ahead the death sentences, tortures and prison in western societies throughout history. I’m definitely up for more videos on the topic. Also a tip for you: English is not my native language either and “bisexual” is hard to pronounce in English for me too. 😅 A less convoluted way to say it is “bi”, pronounced just like 白. Actually, will you consider making a video on Heshen specifically? He /is/ the most corrupt officer in Chinese history who could only be taken down after the death of Qianlong, after all.
Well that's kind of incorrect because all those things happened to homosexual in Chinese history at various points in times . There was literally an emperor who tried to outlaw it .
I was just wondering about homosexuality in Imperial China. I read that unlike western countries, it was more accepted. And this video comes on time for pride month. Can’t wait to learn more! 😁
Thank you so much for video. I asked about this not long ago and I thought you forgot to do it but you didn’t forget. I’m so glad you are displaying rumors. I saw a video that someone made making seem Qianlong on gay. So glad you answered my question.
Hi, me again. I just remembered something i would love to see video about. We know (thanks to you) that consorts could not spend night with emperor, just empress could. I wonder if they could spend time with him during the day if he had time. I saw only Ruyi and Yanxi (whole thing) and emperor would go to drink tea with consorts or talk with them. Was it possible or it is only fiction? If you will do video about it, you have my thanks. ❤️
Thank you for this video, it would be great if you could do another one. I was wondering if some relationships hapened between lower ranked concubines. They never saw emperor and if i remember correctly, they lived together. Sooo... How much they were bored? 😊
I think it happened, everyone needs emotional connection with a another person. Sexual exploration with a person you trusted likely came along with that. They would not have made it public so as not to offend the Emperor’s reputation. However, secrets were not easy to keep in the palace so it may have been known by others. If the Emperor knew? Interesting question .
If that's the case why include the whole "Consort Chun and Empress Xiaoxian being a lesbian couple" story line in "Yanxi Palace" ? Or was there something I missed there and here?
@@vishnukanagalingam1991i don't think it's supposed to look like any historical fact by any means, they just used it as queer baiting of some sorts or as a joke
This is very interesting. I remember this Chinese play or opera where two women fall in love with each other and marry the same man so that they could have more time together. It was mentioned in the Story of Yanxi Palace. Could you please tell us about this story? Were there male prostitutes for rich female clients in imperial China?
@@vishnukanagalingam1991 I don't think so necessarily. It would be better for the women to get along than not, this resulting in a harmonious household
Are there recorded instances where imperial concubines or wives had lesbian relationships with other women in the palace? Was that allowed, since it was two women?
Hi Bing! I would totally love to see more about this topic in future videos. Maybe highlight some stories with important characters? I read somewhere that lesbian relations were "more accepted" than gay ones since with women there isn't penetration...but I don't know if that's correct. Hope you can clarify it. Thank you :)
Wow this videos is one that i was about to asm you because saw the topic in another onw thst didint really explain it and was more like clickbait, so curious this side of Qianlong considering that during Qingdao dinasty homosexuality was very popular. By other hand I knew that Japanese didint saw homosexuality as something bad is amazing to know thst ib china was the ssme pleade fo more videos about it. Thank you for sharing amazing knowledge bing
This is very interesting. I think it very likely , women took female lovers, and did not make it obvious. Partly boredom, but a longing for emotional comfort that could have become sexually intimate. Harem women in the Ottoman Empire did not have that luxury, they were strictly watched for such behaviour because it would be seen as cheating on the Sultan. They would face death by being put in a sack with a starving cat and rat , than thrown into the sea. Perhaps some were able to get under the radar but it would have been difficult.
It´s Funny to hear about the romatic Story of Qianlong´s Male Concubine. And that is not True in all and he got a law to forbidden it.😏 Politic kann be sometime so funny. I thinks on the whole world gave it Times in there were be normal to have Homosexuality Relastionship and then Times there was not so. A big Thank you for your Work for this Tropic and were happy we can see more about it. Then without Sex we all were not here on this Earth.
Bottom line, it is not a choice. "Nothing is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity" Martin Luther King Facts..... Homosexuality is not a choice. But Homophobia is. Is Homosexual orientation acquired or natural?🤔 From the scientific community: The World Health Organization (WHO) and the American Psychological Association (APA) takes the position that a variety of factors impact a person's sexuality. The most recent literature from the APA says that sexual orientation is not a choice that can be changed at will, and that sexual orientation is the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors...is shaped at an early age...[and evidence suggests] biological, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality. Also, over 1500 species have been proven to exhibit homosexuality. Animals don't choose 😁 (American Psychological Association 2010).” Lamanna MA, Riedmann A, Stewart SD (2014). Marriages, Families, and Relationships: Making Choices in a Diverse Society. Cengage Learning. p. 82. ISBN 978-1305176898. Retrieved February 11, 2016. Conclusion In conclusion, we showed that sexual orientation is associated with distinct changes in brain structure and that these effects vary with biological sex. Altogether, our findings show that sexual orientation has strong associations with areas primarily linked to processing and integrating incoming sensory, reward-related, and motor information. The findings aid the understanding of the neurobiology of Li sexual orientation and emphasizes the need of including or controlling for potential effects of the sexual orientation of participants in neuroimaging studies. Moreover, results provide new insights into sexual behavior in general and have implications for healthcare policies. From the Christian community: The Catechism of the Catholic Church discussed this issue in the book with subheading,"Homosexuality" paragraphs 2357-2359 which described that homosexuals “must be accepted with respect”: 2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition. Based on the current evidence above, we can at least conclude for now that homosexual orientation is a natural phenomenon. In Christianity, we are taught that God has a hand on all matters and life in the universe. We can therefore suggest that God has a hand in creating homosexual people as well. If this is so, what is God’s perfect plan and purpose for their existence? Keep in mind that in general gay (homosexual) population are for the most part are talented, peaceful and productive group of people that contribute immensely to the economy, arts, social, and charity, and other parts of society. A perfectly good explanation would be God’s purpose is that with homosexual people’s inability to procreate, their existence can be an aid in not adding anymore to the already overpopulated world especially the 3rd world countries. As well as created to take care of children heterosexuals abandon. And with the predominantly same-sex attractions comprise about 12% of respondents in most Western surveys and with data from non-Western cultures as consistent with this conclusion, homosexual community can really contribute to the depopulation of our world to a degree. Note: There is no persuasive evidence that the rate of same-sex attraction has varied much across time or place. Just from raw observation (due to the lack of documented statistics), the homosexual community in general excel in many aspects of society, citing a few: * In cultural arts, entertainment, music, etc. * Business, and technologies * Law abiding citizens (low crime rate) compared to the general public. And with their extraordinary talents (also a gift from the Almighty and Omniscient God), their contributions can be huge positive boost to the well being of mankind in all aspects of human endeavor and necessities. Based on the above informations, it is safe to say that it is about time that the age old discriminations and homophobic sentiments of some sectors of society must be altered because for one thing their orientation is not their choice but rather a natural phenomenon. Recognizing that homosexuality is a natural phenomenon, Pope Francis courageously announced recently his endorsement of homosexual civil union and welcoming gay community to the Church (at the dismay of many of his detractors (both in the Catholic and non-Catholic Christian world) because in his words “they are also children of God and should be integrated into society”. If homosexuality is natural thus it follows that their sexual desires is just as natural as the heterosexual sexual desires, therefore I can guess that Pope Francis and the magisterium is well aware of this reality that’s why his support of their civil union and his compassion to the gay community. With the available facts and truths of this issue in time the homosexual realm will be legalized and accepted in all aspects of society including religious tolerance and/or sanction. To the fundamentalist Catholics and evangelical non-Catholic Christians, and to the detractors of Pope Francis, it is about time to consider the positive merits of gay communities instead of maintaining the archaic-homophobic negative sentiments against them because it’s not actually their choice to be homosexual but God has a hand in it. God Bless us all children of God! "Pew's research study found that people in wealthier and more developed economies are more accepting than countries that are less wealthy and developed. Germany, the Netherlands and Sweden, nations with a per-capita gross domestic product of more than $50,000, registered among the highest levels of acceptance. By comparison, less than 2-in-10 respondents in Nigeria, Kenya and Ukraine have per-capita GDPs of less than $10,000, express acceptance." Wealth provides access to information and facts, knowledge. "The problem in the world is Oppression of man by man; it is this which threatens Existence. Men continue to misinterpret the second-rate status of women as implying a privilege status for themselves; heterosexuals think the same way about homosexuals; gentiles about jews; whites about blacks; haves about have-nots."
Thank you so much for video. I asked about this not long ago and I thought you forgot to do it but you didn’t forget. I’m so glad you are displaying rumors. I saw a video that someone made making seem Qianlong on gay. So glad you answered my question.
![[EngSub] Encyclopedia of Ancient Chinese Women's Looks 中國古代美人妝容大賞](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/flbimizeExs/mqdefault.jpg)
My understanding is that while there was no real notion that being gay was bad, it was something you did rather than something you were. And it was more like "ok thats fine, but you're still going to give me grandchildren though right?!"
In fact, there was a line of emperors in the Han dynasty I think, who were very publically Bi and had male lovers. The "cut sleeve" story being one of the more famous ones.
That said, as the west influenced China more, so came the homophobia...
Sorry, but that is just wrong. At best it was a naive belief introduced by people like Bret Hinsch and from one gay man to the other, I would like to punch this idiot in the face. I read his book and several later ones by other authors and they way they twist facts and sometimes outright lie to claim that "China" was so incredibly tolerant is just astounding. I saw them claim things as positive that if they were said today by someone it would be blatantly homophobic. In fact that story you mentioned would be one of them. It is not a romantic story, but a story about an emperor who gives titles to someone who doesn't deserve it simply because he fancies that guy and both are dead at the end of the story, one dies the other potentially driven to suicide by his enemies. And what was tolerated was an exploitation of minors and it wasn't nearly as common place as people make it out to be. At best, and really at its very best, "imperial china" was ambivalent about homosexual behavior, but that is no different than it had been in the West at the times. China didn't need western influence to become homophobic, it already was. And for such a sexist and patriarchal society, that is not surprising.
wait, I have 2 questions.
1) In Yanxi Palace, Qianlong suspects Empress Xiaoxian of having homosexual relationships with Consort Chun at one point. I never understood what those two were up to anyway. But was Qianlong's attitude in that story based on recorded history?
2) The law forbidding physical relationships with prostitutes. I watched an interview from a Chinese channel where a historian theorised that Qianlong had gifted a dragon-embroidered robe to a prostitute, who gallivanted about town in it, showing off the emperor's favour and bringing shame upon the royal family. And he shared his theory that this might have caused the crack in the relationship with the step-empress. What are your thoughts on this? Was the fact of an emperor visiting prostitutes more scandalous or the fact that he gave a dragon robe to one more extreme?
The Empress was trying to get pregnant despite not being in great health, and didn't want to tip off the palace physicians about how weak her health was, so she had Consort Chun use her medical knowledge to treat her instead.
@@SheBeastJehanne oooooohhhh wow.. Consort Chun in Yanxi Palace must have been a real prodigy at medicine. She even influenced Consort Yu to poison her own son with ginseng to frame Yingluo later on.
The way I was explained it was that male homosexuality in imperial China was considered more like a kink, which kind of makes sense for the time and is still miles ahead the death sentences, tortures and prison in western societies throughout history. I’m definitely up for more videos on the topic.
Also a tip for you: English is not my native language either and “bisexual” is hard to pronounce in English for me too. 😅 A less convoluted way to say it is “bi”, pronounced just like 白.
Actually, will you consider making a video on Heshen specifically? He /is/ the most corrupt officer in Chinese history who could only be taken down after the death of Qianlong, after all.
Well that's kind of incorrect because all those things happened to homosexual in Chinese history at various points in times . There was literally an emperor who tried to outlaw it .
I was just wondering about homosexuality in Imperial China. I read that unlike western countries, it was more accepted. And this video comes on time for pride month. Can’t wait to learn more! 😁
😁
Pls make more videos on homosexuality in ancient China. I find it very fascinating
Yes, please do more videos about queerness in ancient China
Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge. Love your channel
My pleasure!🥰
Thank you so much for video. I asked about this not long ago and I thought you forgot to do it but you didn’t forget. I’m so glad you are displaying rumors. I saw a video that someone made making seem Qianlong on gay. So glad you answered my question.
Hi, me again. I just remembered something i would love to see video about. We know (thanks to you) that consorts could not spend night with emperor, just empress could. I wonder if they could spend time with him during the day if he had time. I saw only Ruyi and Yanxi (whole thing) and emperor would go to drink tea with consorts or talk with them. Was it possible or it is only fiction?
If you will do video about it, you have my thanks. ❤️
I think I should make a video about Qing emperor’s daily schedule.
@@ancientchinesehistorychannel Great idea, thanks. 👍😁
Thank you and i wish you will talk about this topic more
Thank you for this video, it would be great if you could do another one.
I was wondering if some relationships hapened between lower ranked concubines. They never saw emperor and if i remember correctly, they lived together. Sooo... How much they were bored? 😊
I think it happened, everyone needs emotional connection with a another person. Sexual exploration with a person you trusted likely came along with that. They would not have made it public so as not to offend the Emperor’s reputation. However, secrets were not easy to keep in the palace so it may have been known by others. If the Emperor knew? Interesting question .
If that's the case why include the whole "Consort Chun and Empress Xiaoxian being a lesbian couple" story line in "Yanxi Palace" ? Or was there something I missed there and here?
I think it might have been inserted to show Qianlong's dislike of homosexual activities.
@@vishnukanagalingam1991i don't think it's supposed to look like any historical fact by any means, they just used it as queer baiting of some sorts or as a joke
@@anaavila9326 You might be right.
I would like to see more videos of this topic, especially about the Qing Dynasty!
This is very interesting. I remember this Chinese play or opera where two women fall in love with each other and marry the same man so that they could have more time together. It was mentioned in the Story of Yanxi Palace. Could you please tell us about this story?
Were there male prostitutes for rich female clients in imperial China?
I remember that part of Yanxi Palace also. And I wonder if this was common with the knowledge of the husband.
@@MandaLynn8 Do you think it would have been considered some kind of kink a long time ago?
Just Google Lian Xiang Ban, it is a kun opera.
@@vishnukanagalingam1991 I don't think so necessarily. It would be better for the women to get along than not, this resulting in a harmonious household
@@tandavid9069 Thank you. Yes, this is the one. Thank you for sharing the title.
Are there recorded instances where imperial concubines or wives had lesbian relationships with other women in the palace? Was that allowed, since it was two women?
Hi Bing! I would totally love to see more about this topic in future videos. Maybe highlight some stories with important characters?
I read somewhere that lesbian relations were "more accepted" than gay ones since with women there isn't penetration...but I don't know if that's correct. Hope you can clarify it. Thank you :)
It is more likely that it didn't count as sex or that it was ignored because woman were regarded as low anyhow.
Wow this videos is one that i was about to asm you because saw the topic in another onw thst didint really explain it and was more like clickbait, so curious this side of Qianlong considering that during Qingdao dinasty homosexuality was very popular.
By other hand I knew that Japanese didint saw homosexuality as something bad is amazing to know thst ib china was the ssme pleade fo more videos about it. Thank you for sharing amazing knowledge bing
This is very interesting. I think it very likely , women took female lovers, and did not make it obvious. Partly boredom, but a longing for emotional comfort that could have become sexually intimate. Harem women in the Ottoman Empire did not have that luxury, they were strictly watched for such behaviour because it would be seen as cheating on the Sultan. They would face death by being put in a sack with a starving cat and rat , than thrown into the sea. Perhaps some were able to get under the radar but it would have been difficult.
please more gay ancient china
yes to lgbt ancient china!
It´s Funny to hear about the romatic Story of Qianlong´s Male Concubine. And that is not True in all and he got a law to forbidden it.😏
Politic kann be sometime so funny.
I thinks on the whole world gave it Times in there were be normal to have Homosexuality Relastionship and then Times there was not so.
A big Thank you for your Work for this Tropic and were happy we can see more about it. Then without Sex we all were not here on this Earth.
🤭
Bottom line, it is not a choice.
"Nothing is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity"
Martin Luther King
Facts.....
Homosexuality is not a choice.
But Homophobia is.
Is Homosexual orientation acquired or natural?🤔
From the scientific community:
The World Health Organization (WHO) and the American Psychological Association (APA) takes the position that a variety of factors impact a person's sexuality. The most recent literature from the APA says that sexual orientation is not a choice that can be changed at will, and that sexual orientation is the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors...is shaped at an early age...[and evidence suggests] biological, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality.
Also, over 1500 species have been proven to exhibit homosexuality.
Animals don't choose 😁
(American Psychological Association 2010).”
Lamanna MA, Riedmann A, Stewart SD (2014). Marriages, Families, and Relationships: Making Choices in a Diverse Society. Cengage Learning. p. 82. ISBN 978-1305176898. Retrieved February 11, 2016.
Conclusion
In conclusion, we showed that sexual orientation is associated with distinct changes in brain structure and that these effects vary with biological sex. Altogether, our findings show that sexual orientation has strong associations with areas primarily linked to processing and integrating incoming sensory, reward-related, and motor information. The findings aid the understanding of the neurobiology of Li sexual orientation and emphasizes the need of including or controlling for potential effects of the sexual orientation of participants in neuroimaging studies. Moreover, results provide new insights into sexual behavior in general and have implications for healthcare policies.
From the Christian community:
The Catechism of the Catholic Church discussed this issue in the book with subheading,"Homosexuality" paragraphs 2357-2359 which described that homosexuals “must be accepted with respect”:
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
Based on the current evidence above, we can at least conclude for now that homosexual orientation is a natural phenomenon.
In Christianity, we are taught that God has a hand on all matters and life in the universe. We can therefore suggest that God has a hand in creating homosexual people as well. If this is so, what is God’s perfect plan and purpose for their existence? Keep in mind that in general gay (homosexual) population are for the most part are talented, peaceful and productive group of people that contribute immensely to the economy, arts, social, and charity, and other parts of society.
A perfectly good explanation would be God’s purpose is that with homosexual people’s inability to procreate, their existence can be an aid in not adding anymore to the already overpopulated world especially the 3rd world countries.
As well as created to take care of children heterosexuals abandon.
And with the predominantly same-sex attractions comprise about
12% of respondents in most Western surveys and with data from non-Western cultures as consistent with this conclusion, homosexual community can really contribute to the depopulation of our world to a degree. Note: There is no persuasive evidence that the rate of same-sex attraction has varied much across time or place.
Just from raw observation (due to the lack of documented statistics), the homosexual community in general excel in many aspects of society, citing a few:
* In cultural arts, entertainment, music, etc.
* Business, and technologies
* Law abiding citizens (low crime rate) compared to the general public.
And with their extraordinary talents (also a gift from the Almighty and Omniscient God), their contributions can be huge positive boost to the well being of mankind in all aspects of human endeavor and necessities.
Based on the above informations, it is safe to say that it is about time that the age old discriminations and homophobic sentiments of some sectors of society must be altered because for one thing their orientation is not their choice but rather a natural phenomenon.
Recognizing that homosexuality is a natural phenomenon, Pope Francis courageously announced recently his endorsement of homosexual civil union and welcoming gay community to the Church (at the dismay of many of his detractors (both in the Catholic and non-Catholic Christian world) because in his words “they are also children of God and should be integrated into society”.
If homosexuality is natural thus it follows that their sexual desires is just as natural as the heterosexual sexual desires, therefore I can guess that Pope Francis and the magisterium is well aware of this reality that’s why his support of their civil union and his compassion to the gay community.
With the available facts and truths of this issue in time the homosexual realm will be legalized and accepted in all aspects of society including religious tolerance and/or sanction.
To the fundamentalist Catholics and evangelical non-Catholic Christians, and to the detractors of Pope Francis, it is about time to consider the positive merits of gay communities instead of maintaining the archaic-homophobic negative sentiments against them because it’s not actually their choice to be homosexual but God has a hand in it.
God Bless us all children of God!
"Pew's research study found that people in wealthier and more developed economies are more accepting than countries that are less wealthy and developed. Germany, the Netherlands and Sweden, nations with a per-capita gross domestic product of more than $50,000, registered among the highest levels of acceptance. By comparison, less than 2-in-10 respondents in Nigeria, Kenya and Ukraine have per-capita GDPs of less than $10,000, express acceptance."
Wealth provides access to information and facts, knowledge.
"The problem in the world is Oppression of man by man; it is this which threatens Existence.
Men continue to misinterpret the second-rate status of women as implying a privilege status for themselves; heterosexuals think the same way about homosexuals; gentiles about jews; whites about blacks; haves about have-nots."
Thank you so much for video. I asked about this not long ago and I thought you forgot to do it but you didn’t forget. I’m so glad you are displaying rumors. I saw a video that someone made making seem Qianlong on gay. So glad you answered my question.