China's Most Bisexual Dynasty - Han Emperors and Their Male Favorites
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- Опубликовано: 20 мар 2022
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Sources:
Records of the Grand Historian 史记 by Sima Qian 司马迁 (c. Western Han dynasty)
Book of Han 汉书 by Ban Gu 班固 and Ban Zhao 班昭 (c. Eastern Han dynasty)
In Han Dynasty China, Bisexuality Was the Norm daily.jstor.org/in-han-dynast...
Images from Han-dynasty-based C-dramas like The Emperor in Han Dynasty 汉武大帝 & Beauty's Rival in Palace 美人心计
That Artifact excavated from tomb of Liu Sheng, Prince of Zhongshan www.researchgate.net/figure/L...
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If you're tired of trying to pause here is a link to The Artifact 😶www.researchgate.net/figure/Liu-Shengs-double-dildo-and-two-stone-eggs-The-tomb-of-prince-LIU-Sheng-liusheng-ob-ca-113_fig2_303457468
Thanks for metion chen a jiao i actually writing this in the comment before i even finsihed this video (should have seen the video till the end)
Wow that's something to behold
Would you please cover famous Eunuchs in China's history?
Ancient Chinese sex toys - only on Xiran Jay Zhao
That looks kinda painful
"Society still frowned upon making your way up by sleeping with the emperor instead of having real talent"
Knowing how many lovers emperors used to have, if you can stand out enough in that department, you have some real talent I'll tell you what.
Hank Hill voice: "I tell you hwut"
Emperor Wu Zetian: That's adorable. Now, back to my biography...
With high Charisma must be followed by other stat increase on the way up.
He had talent alright 👀👅
To me it’s like paying a football player millions of dollars and paying a barely-livable wage to EMTs. Do football players have “talent”? Yes. Are they more valuable just because they happen to be in a career that gets favored by people with money? No. Same thing with an emperor, who has more money to lavish on his booty call than a poor peasant who goes to their local knowledgeable herbalist to save their life from sickness.
"We support gay rights, but you can't run a government on thirst alone"
An absolutely iconic line
Stolen comment
that is not means emperor is gay , it is just his play toy
@@hannnu5855 I'm not gay I just have gay sex with men!!!!
@@hannnu5855 bisexual
@@hannnu5855 bisexual
As a Taiwanese, I remember being in middle school studying Ancient Mandarin, literally every one of us has to read a story about how a general seduced his emperor. And everyone was like, ok, cool
What’s the name of the general?
hahaha that is cool :) I love that for raising tolerant open minded kids
@KKK Revolution mandarin is a name of the dialects that were spoken in Northern China. It's being used as simplified now, but to create the simplified version they had to take a certain dialect as a base. Mandarin, which was spoken in the Northern China where the capital was, became that basis. So there is nothing weird with them sayin ancient/old Mandarin
@KKK Revolution ancient mandarin is still pretty old, at about 800 and maybe at a stretch 1,000 years old.
Oh your school is fun, our Chinese history is just 四大發明 over and over again.
Okay, now that the fact that few relationships within ancient Chinese royalty were wholesome has been mentioned, I'm now challenging Xiran to make a video about long-lasting wholesome relationships in ancient China, be they platonic, romantic, straight, gay or anything in between. Were there any Emporers who were faithful to only a single lover for their entire lives?
Only one, the Hongzhi Emperor of the Ming dynasty
@@XiranJayZhao Dang
@@XiranJayZhao well, that was a short video 😅
@@XiranJayZhao you can still make a video about the simp emperor
@@XiranJayZhao well, Yang Jian and Dugu Qieluo were pretty close lol
"You can't run a government on thirst alone" is my new favorite quote
Not with that attitude
*”Wanna bet?”*
It needs a t shirt
Best quote of the video IMHO
Bet.
"I think you're the man from my dream"
Wow, pick up lines really been the same for centuries huh
Thanks for ruining Picard from TES4 Oblivion saying "you're the one from my dreams"
@@Circ00mspice 😁
@@Circ00mspice I'm sure there's fanfiction about it somewhere 😏
@@Circ00mspice thank you for ruining picard for me
That’s hilarious, 💀humans really haven’t changed all that much over the millennias
"We support gay rights, but you cannot run a government on thirst alone"
This one comment sent me, took me out, and made me screech laugh audibly, so thank you
Honestly, I love these dramatic bi kings
The colonial types freaking out about all the bisexuality reminds me of Romans being disgusted by Celtic bisexuality and the idea that men could have consenting relationships with men their own age.
The Romans also thought Emperor Claudius was weird because he didn't have *any* male lovers. All he had were wives and girlfriends.
@@erraticonteuse yeah, Romans were really fucked up regarding sexuality. They really shouldn't have culturally appropriated that one weird thing Athenian elites did and tried to build a series of mystery cults around it.
It's one of the only times in history where the "pedophile elite" was not only true but you were ostracized for not participating in it, unless you were powerful enough to ignore it.
@@erraticonteuse homophobes need to be sent to Emperor Claudius's reign lmao
That says a lot more about the colonizers than the colonized.
@@erraticonteuse that he didn't have bottoms like manly men supposed to have. Don't project on ancient cultures
Historians: "and they were just roommates"
Chinese Historians: "nah fam they were gay af"
So you’re a Chinese historian now huh?🙄
“And they were roommates!”
*”Oh my god they were r o o m m a t e s”*
Edwardian-era historians' wording: They were very close friends, but no in a romantic way.
Dynastic Chinese Emperors/biographs' wording: They slept and rose together. _Can we be any clearer?_
>Busts into historical record
>"they were part of their long list of male lovers"
>refuse to elaborate any further
>leave
@@cloaker7237 one topic reference?
"Han Yuan was no twink." made me laugh so hard. Please put that sentence in one of your novels if you haven't already LMAO
whats so funny
That's debatable
ahh came here to write this
another quote that is either shirt or sticker worthy, because I'd probably own both
😂
“Marriage was seen as a union while romance is something else” man do I feel this so much. Being Asian, I am pressured to have (straight) marriage to continue the family while my true feeling would lead me the _other_ way, so I decided to just not marry at all lest I hurt the future partner’s feeling. If only this kind of arrangement is an option then I might be able to fulfill my parents’ wish for offspring…
Have Chinese emperor goals: get a harem of women with one favorite male lover. Just make sure your dynasty doesn’t get screwed in the drama 😂
Consensual Non-Monogamy?
@@Rachel-fi4sc the word is prolly just “open relationship” but even that is still very frowned upon
@@RadenWA Yes, "open relationship" is one of ways to phrase it. A lot of people in "open relationships" do use the phrase "consensual non-monogamy" instead, though; it leaves behind the societal baggage of "open relationships just mean that one person has bullied the other into letting them get away with cheating" and instead puts the focus on /consent/, which is the most important part.
You could find a spouse of the opposite sex who has the same issue, and you could keep an arrangement where you have a family together but partners on the side. It happens all the time in places where homosexuality isn't accepted.
Sima Qian’s face in the painting is forever frozen in the “maybe heard a murder go down in the next apartment” expression
Emperor Wu and Wei Qing are actually a pretty popular couple in the historic fanfic community. Many have noted that Wu's liking and trust towards Empress Wei significantly deteriorated after Wei Qing's death, and Wu trusted Wei Qing so so so much, which is honestly a very rare sight since Emperors generally don't trust their generals in fear of them taking over their throne. And personally, I'm 99.999% sure that they fucked, a lot.
And yeah, Huo Qubing was seen as basically a stepson of the couple and was often depicted as a hotheaded teenage boy who's very good at warring, if that's the word.
So it was 2 daddies (Emperor, general) & a "stepson" twunk situation... mmmkay. Men sure knew how to have fun during the Han.
actually the common partially-real headcanon is that Wei Qing is more of a hot young man next door who bakes cookies for the neighbours every weekend kinda guy than a daddy XD but both headcanons make sense
The fact there is a Chinese historic fanfic community is pure joy.
May I know where I can find this Historic Fanfic community 👀
@@xAnnaa_ ao3 may be a good place to start looking. But from what I've seen, I think a lot of it is in Chinese on their online platform
it low key sad how many places across the world used to be pretty accepting of queer relationships until Christians and Europeans came and colonized everywhere. So far I know that Ancient Greece, Ancient Rome, Nordic countries during the Viking era, and many countries across east Asia had more acceptance than we would expect them to before colonization and I’m sure many more places had the same. These are just the ones I’ve learned about so far.
That truly is a tragedy, that genuine human expressions of love have been suppressed for so long due to the biases present in the hateful.As for some other examples, you have third gender representation being present in Native American culture, as well as Hijra, a class in South Asia ( India) that represent Intersex, asexual, and trans people ❤️
Actually Greeks discouraged homosexuaIity. Yes I know pEDeRaStY!
BUT it was seen as a ritual?? Thing? And no anaI was allowed! Otherwise you’d be shunned. And it was very regulated there were strictly rules
Romans and vikings?! Hellooooo! They weren’t Christian but they were still intolerant!!!
@@mylesjude233 dude one Google search says you straight up made that up except the name
@@antoniocasias5545 Ever been to a museum? I can legit link to Greek paintings of gay sex if you want. If that’s not enough, look up the story of Achilles and Patroclus, Sappho (who helped create the word “lesbian”), even Alexander the Great (who was “close friends” with a man named Hephaestion). According to Wikipedia, the idea of sexual orientation didn’t really exist back then; only being a top or bottom.
@@antoniocasias5545 Also if that were the case, what's with the existence of groups like The Sacred 300, a military unit from Thebes composes of Male Lovers 😍
Oooh this reminds me of the 6th King of the current Thai dynasty (we are at 10th) He had 3 wives but the juicy part is that he had his personal legion of young men (yes with official military title and all) that lives and go everywhere with him and some describe by the King himself as "beautiful as angel from heaven". Occasionally they would dress up in women clothes and luxurious jewellery for photo-op. Even the king himself once dress up as lead female role (aka Drag) in a theatre play back when he visited Russia as the prince. They tried so hard to erase this part of the history but it was just about 200 years ago and camera already exist so there are tons of photographs and documents because he was literally the most powerful man in the kingdom so there's no point and doesn't care enough in making it secret.
Got a link?
Thailand especially since Thai Buddhist culture had NO hangups regarding human sexuality.
@@Jumpoable better yet og Buddhism in general says nothing about sexuality
@@boyfriendforevvv If it's anything flesh, Buddhism would usually just go "eh, just self-moderate and be careful" lol
@@crowdemon_archives lol ikr. Buddha just told me to be faithful and not cheat on your partner. Nothing about sexuality
Bisexuality as a whole in many cultures was extremely common and it wasn't until later that it got vilified. Almost like it's perfectly natural for humans.
Two Words: Abrahamic Religions.
@@dayangmarikit6860 That might be the most infamous case today, but there are plenty of non-Abrahamic cultures that stigmatized queer relationships as well. For example, in precolonial Mesoamerica, the Aztecs were pretty homophobic and tried to downplay any queer culture in the other groups they conquered, even before the Spanish showed up and did the same thing back to them.
(This makes it even more impressive that evidence of queer Toltecs survived two conquests and we still know about them!)
@@sniccups8390ok, had no clue about queer Toltecs, gotta look into that.
@@dayangmarikit6860More words: European colonizers that forcibly converted the native populace into serving God.
Bisexuality in a whole in many cultures was extremely looked down on and not common. In many of these ancient cultures that are claimed to be accepting, homosexual depictions were usually homophobic, rape, or "dominance" over other men.
I was surprised to learn about the “passion of the cut sleeve”, so seeing this video pop up is great! Def wanted to learn more about bisexuality/homosexuality during ancient times
learning the term cut-sleeve when I read mdzs, was the BEST moment of my life
One of my favorite wikis is history of queerness in islam(or something similar) there was a shah who refused to have sex with his harem unless they dressed as men
@@dismurrart6648 Andalusia was the gayest, I swear, some caliphs/emirs had all-male harems.
@@vicentereacts1304 I just love the idea of someone having yo be convinced to have kids to avoid a succession crisis
Here's another funfact: In Ancient Greece, there was a troop of soldiers named The Sacred Band of Thebes which consisted of 150 gay male couples. They were so powerful that they managed to defeat the Spartans in the famous Battle of Leuctra in 371 BC.
Chemicals in the water are turning the frogs and the emperors gay
I was not expecting this comment 😂
I recommend* reading Passions of the Cut Sleeve : The Male Homosexual Tradition in China by Bret Hinsch, it goes into what Xiran says in this video + other dynasties, it's got quotes of historical records and laws and poetry, overall a very interesting read, and though not perfect, a good introduction to the subject
Edit : *CW for csa, though, the book does include it when discussing same-sex practices
Thanks for the recommendation, I'll keep an eye on the book!
Thank you for the recommendation! Gonna read it someday on this week :)!
Do you know where we could get it?
@@goldfish8729 i'd try an university library or one specialised in Asian cultures/studies/literature, etc. You can search on worldcat to see if libraries near you have it !
@@oeleos6730 ok thank you.
A thing to also note is that male lovers are well-documented in the Han Dynasty not because they were a non-heterosexual couple, but because they were the emperor's consort. Otherwise, the queer romance would not have been 'strange' or 'rare' enough for the historian to document. One example of this is how the male lover of the powerful official Huo Guang was only documented because Huo Guang's widow got on with the male lover. Had the 'inappropriate' relationship between Guang's widow and the male lover not existed, the bisexuality of Guang would not have been known.
love liu bang for straight up ditching court bc he didnt want to go and sleeping with his male lover instead
He was dedicated to his mans. lol
He should have appointed a regent. Then he could just go on vacation.
They don't call him Bang for nothing!...... I'll let myself out
Nice that these Han Chinese Emperors gave the colonizers ACTUAL bi panic! LOL
Uhhhhhhhhh no?
Lmao the one and only time there was some actual reason to be kinda worried about the bi's
@@antoniocasias5545 Is that the only thing you've been saying? Straight-up, most comments with replies have one from you, and I don't think any of them were anything more than needless contrarianism.
@@juniperrodley9843 his life seems so boring he’s just going around being homophobic on random peoples comments lmao 😭
@@auroralunamon I'm not even sure if it's phobia of any kind, it seems more like they're just disagreeing for the sake of it.
That's not to say I didn't get a vibe from them, of course.
I remember reading about the concubine who got her limbs removed, one of the most disturbing things i've read. The empress who sentenced her to such a faith must have truly been a monster.
What the fuck
@@arles1124 are you sure? according to the book The Dragon Throne & A Brief History of China, the act was committed by the Empress Lü onto the rival concubine Lady Qi, and wasn't Wu Xetian a part of the Tang Dynasty, not the Han? though I admit I haven't gotten around to seeing Xiran's video on Wu Xetian, maybe both women committed similar atrocities?
@@kevinrwhooley9439 I think it's Empress Lü, but honestly both still did atrocious action in general. Wu Zetian did kill her political opponents to keep her seat after all (which every king also did, but you get my point).
Oh, the ancient Chinese had a hundred different ways of killing a person slowly.
She was Consort Qi (or Lady Qi/Qi fūrén) of Liu Bang. According to some information sources, she was Liu Bang's most favorite concubine so she became so damn arrogant that she dared to go against Lü Zhi a.k.a Empress Lü ,so Lü Zhi got Qi's head shaved, put her in stocks then had Qi's limbs chopped off, gouged her eyeballs , cut off her tongue and nose, burned (or cut off) her ears, forced her to drink a potion that made her mute, locked her in the pigsty, and called her a "human swine".
I love how you use photos of actors from dramas instead of historical paintings 😂
Historical paintings from the Han (2000 yrs ago) barely exist.
@@Jumpoable They were emperors and you’re saying there weren’t any art made of them? 🧐 Then or in subsequent dynasties? 🧐
@@InvisibleRen Do you know anything about Chinese art? Court paintings were done on silk (perhaps paper as well). They definitely DISINTEGRATE in 2000 years time.
Romans carved their emperors' likenesses in marble & stone --- so some have lasted to our day.
@@InvisibleRen idk about paintings but plenty of murals have been preserved
Yes lol cuz with the actors you'll think of beautiful twinky gay couple and yaoi but you'll be turned of seeing their actual portraits 💀💀
Wei Qing and Emperor Wu on record only having kids when they're apart is the most boiling hot tea. It makes me eye-emoji irl.
As a huge shipper for Emperor Xuan and his boyfriend Pengzu I want to add that Emperor Xuan actually chose to build his royal tomb at Pengzu’s hometown where they used to “斗鸡走马”(hanging out) as children when the royal family cemetery was located on the complete opposite side of the Palace. Ancient Han people believed that tomb is where their spirits would go after death and by doing that Emperor Xuan was showing how much he loved and cherished the beautiful time they spent together when they were children since that’s the place they grown up together. Most of the records I mentioned above where kept in Pengzu’s family biography(he himself came from a noble family at that time that’s why they got their own page) and other fragmented materials in the Book of Han. The records also said Pengzu’s biological father was not so happy about the Emperor’s favour to his son and he had a fight with the Emperor about whether it’s appropriate to nominate Pengzu with the “侯” title because only people with huge contributions to the country would be offered to such honour at that time. (Emperor Xuan won😜)
BTW I really enjoy this video since that’s probably the first video I have ever encountered that acknowledges my ship to be true hahaha so thanks Xiran!!! Hets people just don’t get it😐
please never stop making videos like this. I'm a middle european and have no proper gateway into chinese history. watching your videos I learn stuff I would never have found out on my own and it just feels like hot gossip.... it's too good.
if you are interested in getting into Chinese history, I recommend first looking up on RUclips videos on the whole timeline, then pick a dynasty that you like (the Three Kingdoms or Tang are popular ones), then look up videos on that period.
If you want to go further, Wikipedia is a good place to start since you can go down the footnotes rabbithole and find potentially interesting articles and books.
Chinese historiography is quite organised in the way that each dynasty records the history of the previous one. As a result, the 24 histories exist (have fun with them). Again, 3 kingdoms is quite popular, so there are many free translated versions of Records of the Three Kingdoms on the internet (so it might be an easy gateway).
@@chocolatecookie4502 the vidoe on the whole timeline thing is definetly something I will do. what I really like about her videos is that she has a connection to this history. when I fall down the rabbithole on european and scandinavian history I have a connection to that. it's the history of my ancestors. I don't have that with any asian history. but I can hitch a ride on her connection. and that pulls me in. that is what I enjoy so much.
@@karowolkenschaufler7659 yes definitely! For example, if you are interested in the queer history, you can go to the queer history of ancient china wikipedia page and start from there if it builds a connection.
@@chocolatecookie4502 that Is amazing recommendation
Thank you
The Chinese don't study their own history either, or feel proud of their own culture.
Generally, Chinese traditions required every male family member to produce male heirs, so as to carry on the family into the remote future. Once his wife or concubines felt pregnant and gave birth to a son, the man would be quite free to live his own way of life. If he's homosexual, he could simply put his wife and concubines aside, and shared his bed in the study with a male servant, who normally played the role as his secretary. The elderly within the family would usually turn a blind eye to this kind of 'misconduct', as far as the man had already produced male heirs.
“Han Yuan was no twink” not a sentence I expected but glad I did 😂
He almost made his boyfriend an emperor? Psh. I made mine a god.
*CHAD*
Cheer up, Hadrian. There's always more twinks in the sea.
@@erraticonteuse You are WRONG for this one, Sir 🤣Well played
🤣😂🤣
Hearing about Emperor Yuan and how Hong Gong and Shi Xian ended up manipulating him during faction struggles made me think that it could make a spicy political mind game sort of series where the two eunuchs were femme fatale-esque figures bending their unwitting shared lover to their wills
This is why Eunuchs were so influential, they couldn't impregnated the consorts or concubines or the Empress but they could sure please the Emperors.
I'd like to pitch that Wei Qing and Huo Qubing may have been involved with Emperor Wu more romantically than sexually as a possibility. Of, course, Wu doesn't exactly give off ace-vibes, so this would mean a scenario in which one or both of the generals managed to seduce Wu into a romantic relationship without sex...which doesn't seem likely. On the other hand though, it's not like Wu can't get sex elsewhere and sometimes the romance game is that good, I mean if you got your sex needs covered and then you got a general who' doesn't need to screw to rock your world why not give it a whorl? Gotta respect the struggle for the snuggles.
...I'm genuinely not sure if I'm discussing historical information or writing gay-ace fan fic anymore...
Why not both?
I feel like as soon as you introduce a formal harem or concubinage to a situation, you really can just specialise in what you want from partners. Given how many sexual options an Emperor has it would be hard to differentiate non-sexual romantic relationships from sexual relationships that just never follow through, as it were.
this just might be the single most intriguing title i've seen so far, i've always associated old times with heavy homophobia, this is going to be incredibly interesting.
Why and why?
@@antoniocasias5545 It’s not the old world that’s homophobic; it’s old Christianity that’s homophobic, and notoriously so. It still hangs around today a little bit, with a couple traces in the Catholic Church and small radical groups like the Westboro Baptist.
Ancient times seemed quite open actually, especially with places like Greek and Rome.
@@mattybrunolucaszeneresalas9072 Well that’s ironic. The Catholic Church (in the 1600s at least) would burn someone to death for being left-handed, let alone gay. I’d say it’s pretty accurate
@@cloaker7237 I think he means you’re being selective and biased
And yes yes it was
I love how you talk about history like a gossip channel. It's so fun. You make learning about Chinese history fun. This stuff is as juicy as all the drama in going on in Rome.
The more you learn about this, Greek culture, certain indigenous cultures, and bonobos, the more you conclude that bisexuality is probably the natural norm of humanity, not monosexuality. I’m more and more of the opinion, especially given preliminary surveys of Gen Z, that what we consider ‘queer’ is in fact not a minority. It’s largely due to social conditioning that people adhere to straight identity and don’t entertain thoughts of the same sex, or gender variance. Incidentally, you can be a proponent of monogamy as a behavior, due to safety and stability advantages, and still not throw queer people under the bus.
Well, sadly STDs gonna say no to that.
@@jamalisujang2712 STD's are related to SEX not bisexuality or queerness. What are you on?
@@manerebooth7477 did I phrase that wrong? Pardon, english is my second language.
@@jamalisujang2712 Its also my second language, I thought you meant "queerness cannot be default because of STD's", am i not correct?
@@jamalisujang2712 ???
“...Have you ever wondered if Chinese emperors had male lovers in addition to their harems of thousands of women?..”
“No, no, I don’t believe I have, but Do tell…” I said to myself as I took a sip of my chamomile tea. fyi I’ll be counting this video as a therapy sesh.
__
The greatest f**king intro ever.
Me, I was: "No, but I figured that they did."
@@origamipein18 🤣🤣🤣exactly
@@olindafabiandemarrero8764 😊
I'm curious if there was any (documented) female/female stuff going on. I mean, you've got these huge harems full of women, largely serviced by women, odds are something would happen at some point.... and what was the cultural opinion on it?
Haven’t seen the document here either
Honestly I think it's because women were traditionally seen as lower than men, and they often did not hold positions where they are able to document things, so there isn't that much documentation on female/female relationships.
yep! probably also an issue of literacy and which classes/groups would’ve been taught to read and write
I suspect it's tolerated as long as they marry a man and give birth to sons. Chinese society was polygynous and there are documentation of wives asking their husbands to get more wives.
If Xiran made a video on this that'd be super neat
Also, every time I watch Mulan, I yell “GAY LIONS” every time it shows the palace entrance! Love this channel
So wait one guy had a dream about a guy lifting him to heaven, and his name was ascension. Nope I’m pretty sure that’s just the cute story they tell people how they first ment
"You can't run a government on thirst alone" - perfectly put.
Do you think Zhao will talk about turning Red? The fact that it takes place in Canada made me think of them.
Maybe, can certainly request it. More likely to have a request accepted on their patreon I believe but don't quote me on that.
Also Xiran uses they/them/their pronouns
DO IT! THEY NEED TO DISSECT IT!
@@angelitabecerra I believe Xiran stated that they don’t mind being called she/her but do prefer they/them, but I could be wrong I’d have to check their Twitter again
It's pretty likely that they will cover it soon, since this whole channel was created for dissecting Asian representation in Disney movies (even though it has expanded to something even better).
Wow, Emperor Wen really made it so his lover Deng Tong's fate became a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's funny b/c in my culture, we're told to try not to seek out fortune tellers for this very same reason. Your fate is never what you really think it will be, it may be true, but not the way you expect or want.
Here in the west we call that a "self-fulfilling prophecy" because by trying to avoid your fate instead you run straight into it.
Honestly I don't blame the crown prince for throwing up. I about threw up!
I wish my culture was the same. My parents' generation and the ones before them swear by astrology, even the really educated people. What's worse is they insist on getting my horoscope read, even if I don't believe in that stuff
Me: **chilling, listening to Xiran's latest history lesson with a bowl of supper.**
Xiran: When Emperor Wen had boils growing on his back--
Me: Oh, no...
Xiran: Deng Tong was willing to suck--
Me: **puts bowl away**
This was a great and interesting video! Really fascinating how queer is especially the Han-dynasty was.
One note though, it would be great to cite the sources and any other helpful literature on the topic in the description, and also sources for the images, especially something like that last one which can't be shown in the video.
That way, this video can be better used as starting point for further research.
(And it's always good historically-scientific etiquette to clarify ones sources.)
It is in the description though
Yeah I forgot to add them! It's mainly Records of the Grand Historian and Book of Han like I said. Also included a link to the artifact pic in case anyone wants to 👀
I feel like we should be watching these videos in AP World History classes. They teach so much about Dynastic China.
"You can't run a government on thirst alone!" Xiran said to Saint-Just, one foot on Robespierre's back.
SCREAMIN
What does Robespierre have to do with this 👀
@@xiaanyang8184 Xiran has an extended Twitter joke (joke?) about them bullying Robespierre and how Saint-Just was in love with him.
@@ZyllasAthenaeum Ooooo👀
Funny thing about the missionaries (en)forcing such ideals upon people far and wide, while at home, kings and emperors in Europe were getting it on left and right with mistresses and male "favorites".
Did they keep records of the Empresses as well? I would imagine there'd have to at least be a few of them that played both teams when there were literally thousands of concubines and ladies in waiting.
Due to sexism, it probably wasn’t as documented. Ppl in power tend to document their exploits sort of thing
@@ma.2089 nah nah we lesbians are just stealthy like that B)
as for the ones who were bi/pan, uhhh... yeah they're just stealthy too
Honestly, China Empress in general is quite little. If anything, I think the we can find someone who play on both team more in harem than official.
I mean, in harem there's only eunuch and women.
Given some Chinese dynasties were quite sexist, it wouldn't be that surprising to find out that it was just not seen as sexual because there's no man involved.
Sorry, they barely even wrote their actual personal names down (just reigning Empress title & their fathers' clan name)...
O____o
#ChinesePatriarchy
Hearing her say wow presents plus had me going “oh yeah, it’s all coming together”
LMAOOOO
That's why WEBNOVEL is flooded with these types of stories and I always wondered why it's a huge topic.
You cleared my doubts that I had for years 😂
0:56 You got this in certain periods in Greek culture. Older men (erastes) were allowed to take young boys as lovers (eromenos). It was accepted and society turned a blind eye. At some point, the man was expected to marry and settle down, usually with a young girl around 15 years of age or so. He could still keep lovers as long as he was discreet and didn't let it affect or interfere with his household. Male lovers would have been especially tolerated since he wouldn't sire some bastard child that might trouble the family inheritance.
Well well well
A whole
BInasty of emperors 8D
Lmao shut up 💀💀
@@tohru-adachi-true-legit-real take my like and *leave*
Dad! Knock it off
WHEEZE
I dont know if this was true or not but the first wife of emperor wu (empress chen) of han was often said to be the first lesbian or bisexual
Gotta say her story was kinda tragic as emperor wu had a relationship with another girl named weizi fu she was pretty much abandoned ,missing the emperor so much she order chu fu (a shamaness) to curse on weizifu (empress chen always went to see her, some say that they act like husband and wife and sleep together) well she pretty much being abandoned after being discovered this chu fu was executed and empress chen was abandoned but thanks to a poem she was allowed to return but she still died alone though
Some say that empress chen and emperor wu had a story named (金屋藏娇）empress chen was promised that when emperor wu became the emperor he will built a golden house for her
I also felt need to mention that weizi fu wasnt the villain either since she commited suicide and her family was executed as well but historian cant figured out why this happen some historian said that she is a pretty good empress too good to be exact
It's really interesting to me how polyamory was seen back then too! It seems like it was more just a fact of life, at least on royalty level. Like each Emperor had several male favorites and it's literally recorded that they loved them equally 🥺💓
That’s Chinese patriarchy for ya. Concubines, consorts, and male favourites, all for one man. And because having sons to keep the family line going is the most important thing in China, polygamy was encouraged back then. If the family was rich enough to afford it, when the first wife didn’t give birth to a son for years, she would encourage the husband to get a concubine. It was a virtue of “being a good wife.”
I think it's more like polygamy. Not exactly wholesome as u might think.
Not really polyamory in this case, since if imperial consorts were to seek other lovers, that could actually be punishable by death under some circumstances.
Like the other person said it's more like polygamy.
That's polygamy not really polyamory
"We support gay rights, but you can't run an empire on thirst alone" is gonna be my assassin's motto
Saw the word ‘bisexual’ and your name I have never pressed a video so quickly
Cringe
@@tami3456 who
asked
@@tami3456 ew, ur the cringe one i saw u commenting on a vid and talking abt how celebs lying abt their plastic surgery doesn’t influence ppl. chill dude 😂
@@bloss6277 maybe not
That PFP and name is gaining popularity
Just like that dark blue sunglasses dude
@@antoniocasias5545 meh, maybe tho same disgusting attitude
I love your videos so much honestly- love hearing about Liu Bang’s bisexual chaotic nature and learning more about China and it’s views on LGBTQ+ can’t wait for more!!! 💕💕💕
Liu Bang: original disaster bisexual?
The emperor of China is the son of God.
The Son of God can't be wrong. The emperor is perfect and can't be wrong.
The emperor can cut your head off and kick it for fun without anyone arresting him. It doesn't mean that the whole society can just cut off someone else's head just for fun.
@@chiuansheng The emperor is absolutely not "the son of god" or related to any god. The emperor is a flesh and blood human, full of corruption and mistakes. If you place your leaders as gods, you rob yourself of your own power as a citizen.
i just want to say that i love how you storytell in these videos!! it feels like you're giving us all the hot gossip while still including relevant cultural and historical background. it's like a telenovela but with even more drama and a history lesson to boot. had me over here gasping and everything!
Much respect to the guy who went back to the Han Dynasty to photograph these people.
"fuck boy emperor" is the best line about an emperor ever.
I finished reading your novel the other day, and DAMN it was good! It reminded me of all the great things about fanfiction in that you took so many tired old tropes, threw them in the shredder, then reassembled them into something way more interesting in a way I wish more published novels did. Every time I thought something like "oh, ok, here comes the cliche overused love triangle" BAM! PSYCH! Did not see that coming!
I want more now please :)
I had heard about the "passion of the cut sleeve" emperor but hearing about the drama that followed most of these relationships makes me wanna watch a series dedicated to this part of Chinese history
That artefact made me go on a strange journey to read about ancient sex toys... did you know that the earliest historical findings of sex toys go back 28 000 years... one artefact was made out of siltstone and was also used to start fires...
Starts the fire in the hearth, quenches the fire in your loins, only $99.99!
@@MorgenPeschke true!
There actually have some s3x toys has been founded in one of Han dynasty tombs. The owner of this tomb is a male noble, I saw this from a Chinese documentary, but I forgot the documentary’s name.I remembered the s3x toy is made by copper. The expert in documentary explained that the s3x toy is used by the owner himself, he chose to take it with him in the tomb means he likes it very much👀
@@alliesheng9063 I don't have much else to say besides that I love hearing about these historical details, they really make you internalise that people in the past lived lives, quite similar to our own
I mean, maybe this doesn't apply the same way to literal nobility, but you probably get my point
Thank you for saying bisexual and not just lgbt, bisexuality needs it's own separate representation apart from being another sexuality
@@mattybrunolucaszeneresalas9072 hey ye
..huh? Of course they're going to use the term bisexual since that is specifically what they're talking about in this video. I've never seen anyone use only "LGBTQ" when talking about a specific orientation. Or at least not enough for it to be a concern
@@pumpkin7446 Too often I see headlines and news etc. saying "gay" or "lgbt" when talking about a bisexual person and really they should be saying bisexual. Like if you know their specific identity than why use an umbrella term instead? It feels like erasure
What?? Bisexuality is literally a sexuality. It’s in the NAME.
I think I get your point, that bisexuality is ignored way too often. But the way you worded it is weird
Worse than LGBT is people saying “queer”. No, I’m bisexual. Stop throwing in the vaguest of words just because bisexuality makes you uncomfortable
Honestly, I'm not surprised that Han's emperors had male lovers and that their romances didn't end well. Look at Apollo and all his lovers (both male AND female).
Anywho~, have you thought about doing a video on Qin Shi Huang? 🙂
Oh my God,
And they were calligraphy classmates
The intro was… ✨perfection✨
Sleeping with the Emperor is genuine talent.
Huh, "The Artifact" actually has a surprisingly strong resemblance to modern toys used for the same purpose, guess some things never change :p.
I love the way you present history. Not only is it very informative and interesting but it's hugely entertaining.
Love how they're just casually mentioning "oh yeah, that guy later go murdered by so and so.."
Chinese history is /wild/
Honestly it happened so much, it was normalized/expected, especially during power struggles. We’re talking about Emperors after all. It’s literally games of thrones.
FUCKING GODDDD I was not mentally ready for that intro. I'm gonna fucking use it, thank you for thissss
Conservatives: Things were so much better back in ancient times when we didn't have all these gays everywhere.
Ancient gays everywhere: Are you sure about that?
Nothing empowering about sexual slavery. Even if it's between two men
RUclips is really getting too comfortable with those double unskippable ads...
I know it's fucking annoying
While I've luckily gamed them to show movie/tv trailers half the time like Sonic 2, the other half is still those 15 second or double ads all unskippable...
I hope one of the patreon ask for Ching Shih the Pirate Queen
Same here, she's one of the most successful pirates in all History, her story is truly one deserving wider recognition.
Right? 🙏🏾
The last two Emperors really have a mutual feeling with their favorite male but Emperor Ai really inlove to the point he's so hilarious and giving everything to his lover and making other officials imprisoned and freak out by his unexpected decisions🤣🦋
I really love the passion of the cut sleeve story. It's just straight up wholesome and I love it!
This was such a great video! It is so fascinating to hear about the Han emperors and their queer relationships. I wish we had more history about wlw too :)
Also I would love if they did a video on 'Turning Red' because it would fascinating to hear their thoughts.
Just from the title I know this vid is gonna be a banger.
We definitely need more of the drama from this dynasty. This was awesome!
I'm so excited for your next book! Iron Widow was the first book in over a decade to give me that immersive reading experience that I missed from my childhood.
I remember hearing about this from RUclips channel "Overly Sarcastic Productions"
Loved this video!
Out of curiosity will you do one over the recent movie Turning Red?
PLEASSSE I NEED TO SEE THIS
I really hope they do
I concur.
Update: they have made a video on Turning Red and why so many people see it weirdly
I really feel bad for DenTong, the emperor really did try his hardest to save him from his faith
I love all your videos, but especially when you break down Chinese history. I can tell this is something you're passionate about; it shows in your videos hardcore. History was never my "thing" but your videos are honestly riveting and fun to watch. Thank you for all the work you put in to all your videos on top of being an awesome author. I just started reading Iron Widow and wow.
This video is a gift.
Wow RUclips unlisted the video, totally a good move RUclips
?
Dong Xian getting all of this access and power because Emperor Ai was thirsting over him is the kind of power I want over my future lover
Please do the story of Liu Bang when you can!
Also, Emperor Wen and Deng Tong's meeting story is so interesting...
More history lets go! Keep up the good work homie, love you book (just bought it :)) and your videos! ❤️
Yeah they're killing it with the variety of history topics. I think it'd be cool if they covered the History of Chinese Piracy, covering greats like Ching Shih and Koxinga 😎
Just finished the book a few days ago. Read it in less than a week bc of how enthralling the story was! Fingers crossed for a sequel
book :O *investigates*
and hell yeah, I've never really heard anything in depth about them @Myles Jude
@@mysss29 Just a little description. Ching Shih razed havoc to the Qing Dynasty during the early 1800s, where her Red Flag Fleet composed of thousands of pirates had bouts with the Qing, Portugeuse, and British Navies and came out of it negotiating a sweet deal where she kept her loot. Koxinga on the other hand was half chinese/japanese pirate lord who seemed to restore the ming Dynasty from the usurping Qing, thus would build a Dynasty in Taiwan with the intended purpose of combating the Manchu invaders.
I love that smooth smooth marketing you just slipped in there (will def be checking the new book out! congrats!!!)
Thank you for these details. These kind of topics wasn't even discussed to our history class or even in some text books.
Such a cool video! Always so hype to hear about ancient history especially queer ancient history and learning more about it.
you release this at late o clock right before I go to bed. the temptation to stay up for more XJZ content is so, so loud.
"I'm sorry that most of these stories are probably not as wholesome as you wish they were..."
It's okay. I mean, we *are* talking about royalty here...
The day Deng Tong met the emperor must have been a really weird day for him
(also, i desperately wanna read books on ALL OF THESE DUDES)
Emperor wu really said
“When I say I like men, I like MEN 💪💪🤭❤️”