Thank you so much, Everyone for Liking, Commenting, and Subscribing to my Channel! The full documentary this clip is from remains one of the most important “philms” of my career and I truly hope you take a little time to enjoy it… Stay 'Tooned! Presents - Batman: The Animated Series ruclips.net/video/OyTiWwJtvw0/видео.html
I think a lot of people are not taking into account that this was an actor testing for a role. Most voice actors - including the ones who are cast - don't nail the voice right away. They come in and try some stuff based on what little they know about the intended character (or iteration of a character) and then develop it over some amount of time. I mean, go back and listen to the first seasons of the Simpsons, Family Guy, etc. It can take a while to get into the groove of a character. Starting where Tim started, I have a feeling he would've developed it fairly quickly into a Joker just as iconic as Mark's, especially once he got a little more direction from the production team (as they figured out what they wanted as well) and got to see it in action with his voice, music, sound effects, etc. Mark knocked it out of the park right away but their interpretations of the character weren't so different that Tim couldn't have found that same groove pretty quickly had he been cast. Also, remember that we're seeing these clips out of context, with no real production, no music, no sound effects, etc. The amount those things add to the performance can't be underestimated. I mean, yeah, I agree that Tim's VO here was missing a little something but give him some time to sculpt the voice and have them add the full-on production and I think he would've killed it just as hard as Mark does. I've done a little bit of voice acting in games (where I was primarily a designer but sometimes subbed in on VO for prototypes, placeholder VO, easter eggs, random NPCs, or just for fun) and I can tell you that walking into a booth with a couple of pages of lines with no context, no visuals to go off of, and no clear direction from the director can be a challenge. You just try a bunch of semi-random stuff until the director or producer stops saying, "Okay, that's great. Now, let's try another one." Creating that magical voice out of nothing right out of the gate is not easy. In fact, on one project for a major game studio, I worked with a director who had NO IDEA what he wanted from the character and, man, believe me when I tell you that makes it 10x harder. E.g. He kept having me read the line "This ain't no disco" with absolutely no context to it and whenever I asked for some sort of motivation or direction for the line or the character, he'd just say he didn't know or "Y'know, it's just... it's that line from the Talking Heads song." And I'd be like, "Yeah, but WHY is the character saying it? What's happening in the game when he's saying it?" I never got an answer but we recorded that line SO MANY times, trying different iterations with literally zero direction other than "let's try it again." And eventually my VO was replaced by Bruce Campbell which, tbh, is a decision I could never be mad at.
Honestly he just sounds normal, which isn't really something you want. I don't know why they think he sounded scary, he doesn't, but maybe they mean he would have been scary to kids back then.
@@williamparcell9197 he just sounds like some crazy thug here. With that voice I’d more expect him to beat Batman with a crowbar not to pull a deadly prank
Yeah, honestly, Mark's voice is WAY more chilling just because of how legitimately unhinged he can sound while this voice Tim Curry is doing is just too over the top to take that seriously.
Tim Curry harkens back to his performance as Pennywise in the It movie. While it is a bit awkward and underwhelming, it could become menacing and dangerous with practice. Thanks for posting this.
This just popped up in my suggested videos, just a couple days after Kevin Conroy passed. We got the perfect cast, and nobody has ever matched Conroy and Hamill in my eyes. They were the REAL dynamic duo, and their presence was what truly gave that life. Rest in peace Kevin. You'll ALWAYS be the real Batman.
Not sure if you have seen the video Phil made when he found out Kevin Conroy had passed, but there is a clip of a story from Kevin in it that is absolutely wonderful. You can find it here: ruclips.net/video/qz6G_cuDjvA/видео.html
I was absolutely devastated. Kevin and Mark are truly “our” Batman and joker. The kids that grew up watching the animated series as kids. No disrespect to Tim but I mean come on.
Pretty sure the generation before yours would consider Adam West the "real" Batman. Every generation has one. Jason O'Mara is probably the "real" Batman for the current generation who grew up on the DCAMU.
I think the difference is that Curry voiced the Joker as someone menacing. Hamill voiced the Joker as someone having the time of his life, which is what makes him a menace to US.
What’s interesting to me is that even though Tim is scary and Mark is funny, they still both sound very similar. Mark’s version changed over time into the definitive voice of Joker, but his early voice was not so different from Tim’s. Makes me wonder how Tim’s voice might have evolved.
well after all, originally he had to loop existing footage. so if they drew Joker expressing himself along with Tim's delivery, now Mark had to read along with that finished facial animation.
In this very video (from the documentary), Dan Riba (director of the show) says: "Mark DID make it his own but that first show... and first couple, he's kind of like doing his take on what Tim had done." i.e. Mark iterated off the voice Tim started - which they would've played for Mark as an example of something similar to what they were looking for - but had the chance to develop it over a few episodes before finally dialing in the stuff that everyone thinks sets the two apart. Had Tim gotten that same chance to develop the character, I have no doubt he would've done the same. And given that they're starting in basically the same place, I imagine they would've ended up in a very similar place as well. Or, even if Tim had taken it in a little bit different direction, I'm sure it would have been equally iconic. Maybe a scarier take on it even. I can imagine that, if Tim had been cast and we were instead watching "Mark Hamill's Joker audition" here on YT, the same people who are talking about how much better Mark's Joker is would instead be commenting that Mark's is pretty good but is too goofy compared to Tim's iconic, chilling take on the Joker. It's all about the VO actor getting time to develop the character and, ultimately, whichever one we get used to hearing first is going to be the one we like best. TL;DR: The voices ARE very similar. People only like Mark's better because (1) he's had time to dial it in, (2) he has full production on and around his VO which Tim's audition doesn't, and, most importantly, (3) we're used to hearing Mark's Joker, Tim's is slightly different, and the human brain is not evolved to embrace change quickly because our primitive animal brains tell us that different = bad because survival.
True but Mark's was amazing from the first episode he was in. He refined it but it was still the same. Tim's sounded more like the 70s campy version but more serious if that makes sense.
Hearing Tim Curry doing the Joker’s voice is very good. He did a wonderful job doing the joker’s voice and he captured both his creepy and hilarious side of the character. But Mark Hamil really nailed the definitive voice of the character,and it became very iconic to this day. I am glad that I get hear Tim’s voice.
Not to take anything away from Mark but he had the added benefit of getting to iterate off the voice that Tim started (according to Dan Riba, director of the show), developing the voice over time (Dan mentions that, for the first few episodes, Mark was still doing his take on what Tim had done though, after those first few episodes, he made it more his own), and having us all hear it with full production around it (music, sound effects, context, etc). Had Tim been cast instead of Mark and gotten the same opportunity to develop the voice and character over a few episodes with a full production and directors and producers who figured out what they were looking for, I have no doubt he would've ended up killing it just as hard as Mark does.
I love Tim Curry in his countless animated villian roles, with Mark as Joker it gives Joker a unique voice that is a large part of why this series is so fondly remembered
you know what it reminds me of? Brent Spiner's Joker. Here's a guy who has done amazing voices in the past, cackling maniacs, disturbingly cracked villains... and then we get *that* performance. And it's so flat, and just not using a fraction of his potential.
0:25 Tim does a decent job of making the famous "grilled cheese sandwich" line menacing, but Mark's deliriously cheesy (sorry, not sorry) delivery is a high point of that episode.
You worded that well. I think that’s the crux of this whole scenario. Of course Tim would have evolved the character. All of us have the amazing performance of Mark lodged in our childhoods so it’s difficult to think there could be any other versions we’d enjoy. Thanks for watching/commenting!
This genuinely hurts my ears. It’s not even inherently bad, I just think Hamill is so ingrained into my mind that it makes Curry seem so unnatural and awful.
Your description kinda reminds me of when you go to drink a glass of milk but you don’t realize you actually grabbed a glass of orange juice instead and your mouth is all confused! 😆 In any case, I get what you mean. 😁
Prefiero la versión de curry. He escuchado la de Hamill pero no la he interiorizado pues con la que crecí es la versión en Castellano. Me parece que le va mejor al personaje y que va mejor con los movimientos del dibujo
@@rocioal3145 Tiene sentido en el caso de este episodio porque estaba animado con la intención de que Curry lo interpretara, por lo que algunas de las primeras apariciones de Joker en este programa (especialmente el episodio de Navidad) parecen estar mal, ya que Hamill tuvo que trabajar en torno a los movimientos y las pocas infligiciones que los animadores pusieron para igualar la actuación de Curry
Right. Tim Curry is a fantastic voice actor, and he would've killed it as the Joker. If he had gotten the role, we'd all be laughing at the idea that they even considered casting Mark Hamill instead. I mean, Luke Skywalker as the Joker? Seriously? (Note: I'm not bashing Mark Hamill. He's great, and his take on the Joker is iconic. It's just that we'd all be thinking differently if Tim Curry was allowed to leave his mark on the role instead and we never heard Hamill's take.)
@@TJ1380 I think Mari Hamill's worst voice acting performance was Goro Majima in the original PS2 version of Yakuza that got localized. He played it like a generic gangster. Someone should've told him Majima was pretty much the Yakuza series' version of The Joker.
@@wantutosigh1117 same with Chris Farley who was cast as Shrek originally, but died during production. Not taking anything from Mike Myers, who did an amazing job, but hearing clips of Farley as Shrek were just as good, but different. The whole tone of the scene changed at times like he was more sensitive of a character
Tim really captured Joker's darker side. It makes him sound threatening. Mark on the other hand can make Joker sound whimsically funny to killer intent in one sentence, and that is scary. Mark's depiction makes it work because you don't know whether the Joker is being serious or not.
Dan Riba (director of the show) says straight up in the clips from the documentary that although Mark did eventually make the voice his own, for the first few episodes he was doing his take on what Tim did with the voice. Meaning (1) Mark iterated off of Tim's performance and (2) it took him at least a few episodes to dial in what everyone loves about his Joker voice. Had Tim been cast, I'm sure he would've developed it into something equally iconic, especially given the very similar place they started with it.
I didn't realize until watching this how much our idea of what the Joker is "supposed" to sound like came from Mark Hamill's legendary performance. Tim Curry is doing really good here. If they had gone with him, this would be the gold standard of Joker.
Tim Curry makes the character feel more controlled, like it isn't truly primal insanity driving the character. Where as Mark brings this level of insanity to the character that feels more like a raw nerve...the insanity is driving the character rather than just tapping into it.
That’s only because they replace him before he had a chance to really thrive. If given the chance dare I say he would have made a better joker than mark Hamill himself.
@@geeebuttersnap2433 I am not saying it is bad. It is different more than anything. But when you look at Joker as a case study...he is primal insanity. Completely unhinged. One day he could pie you in the face and find that peak hilarity...the next he could shoot you in the face and find that equally hilarious. Joker has only ever shown restraint when society collapsed and there were no heroes to save the day so he took up the role of an anti-hero. And when he was partnered up with Red Skull...because even insane people can't tolerate racists.
I think what @Geeebuttersnap was saying is that Mark had a chance to develop the character to reach that primal insanity vibe that you're talking about whereas Tim just did an audition. You can't really compare those as equal things. Also, it's worth noting, based on what Dan Riba (director of the show) said in this documentary, Tim came in and was given the direction "not like Jack Nicholson," leaving him to come up with a Joker voice out of basically nothing whereas Mark was iterating off of the voice that Tim started. And, according to Dan, though mark DID make it his own eventually, for the first few episodes he was just doing his take on what Tim did. Meaning it took him several episodes to dial in what everyone likes about his Joker. Basically, had Tim been cast, he would've had the same opportunity to find the primal crazy that you're referencing as Mark did and, tbh, I think he would've ended up with something probably similar and certainly just as iconic.
@@johnplaysgames3120 I get that. Tim Curry is a great actor. Still the best Pennywise in my opinion...but I don't think he could do the insanity of The Joker like Hamill can. Curry is good at playing a menacing, threatening character...but I dunno if he could switch between menacing and outright insane like Hamill does.
What's really surprising is how similar both voices are. I'm sure Tim Curry would have grown into the role splendidly, as he is a phenomenal actor, but Mark Hamill really brought the character to life. The tiny bits of falsetto and voice cracking that Mark brought in are now so ingrained into the character, that it's hard to imagine anyone else doing the role.
1:22 That's the point where I hear the "it's too scary" comments. Take that two seconds and imagine the Joker's monologue from "Beyond: Return". Imagine Curry talking about torturing and brainwashing Tim. That's horrifying.
I completely agree. Curry has an incredible range that has shown throughout his career. It would have been fascinating to see him really lock into it with Joker to display what he was clearly capable of. Obviously I am thankful for Mark - in the end, he locked in and hit the ground running.
@@PhilMachi don't get me wrong, any voice that's not Mark Hamill coming from that Joker is cursed but that's because we've had thirty years with Hamill. If we had gotten Tim Curry as the permanent Joker the character over those same thirty years would look nothing like it does now, the Arkham games IMO would be darker with much less of the comedic edge
@@thewewguy8t88 As Dan Riba mentions in the clips from the doc, for the first few episodes of the show, Mark was doing his take on the voice that Tim did. The only difference between them, really, is that Mark got the chance to develop the voice and character whereas Tim just did an audition where he tried a voice.
@@djcook3991 Maybe. Mark had the chance to develop the voice and character and dial it in, Tim didn't. We honestly don't know what he would've done with it. Given that Mark started out by iterating off the voice Tim did (according to Dan Riba in the doc), it's possible they would've ended up in a very similar place. I mean, it's not like Tim Curry doesn't do comedy. With a few episodes to explore the character and understand the humor aspect of the Joker, I can imagine he would've found the same vibe Mark did.
I like how weird it is that it's kind of a goofy voice juxtaposed to how dark the episode is, but it also just sounds kind of underwhelming as a performance. I feel like if he had gotten to keep the role, though, it might have evolved into something a little better, especially given that Eric even admits that they didn't know what they wanted.
My thoughts exactly. The whole performance sounds like Tim is searching for the right balance between silly and sinister. It would be interesting to see how he would have developed the character over time.
@@eyetipe8362 I was just thinking this. Raw dialog usually sounds fine, then gets strange paired with the visuals alone, then makes sense again after some editing. Post adds a lot, but just dialog and animation is uncanny. I do still think it was sort of underwhelming, but I'd *like* to think it's mostly because we're glimpsing an in-between phase of a performance done while ill.
Tim was creating the character out of basically nothing other than the direction "not like Jack Nicholson." As Dan Riba mentions, Mark was iterating off of the voice that Tim did and it STILL took him several episodes of the show to dial it in. I'm sure Tim would've done the same, given the chance. Also, if you've ever recorded music, you know that there's a HUGE difference between dry vocals and vocals that are produced and have music around them. Part of the "underwhelming" aspect of Tim's performance that you're hearing is that there's no production around them - no music, no sound FX, no production on the VO - they're just dry and that's always going to sound underwhelming, no matter who's doing the voice or how well they're doing it. And, as you mentioned, they're test/audition VO. He's trying out stuff for a character that is undefined by the directors and producers at that moment, whereas Mark came in and iterated off of Tim's performance. Obviously, it's not going to be fully dialed in. I think either of them would've killed it as the Joker, Mark just got the chance to develop the voice and character. You're not one of them, obvs, but some of the people in these comments are being a little harsh on Tim's take, given all the RL considerations around it.
Hearing Tim Curry's version, and hearing his other voice work and acting, i think that the show creators had an idea for a voice that Tim Curry would be perfect for. But Tim might have had a little different spin on it, and Mark Hamill was able to deliver more of what the show runners were looking for from Tim Curry. I often think that Mark Hamill's joker sounds like a lot of Tim Curry characters. They are both iconic performers. Thanks for the vid.
It's been especially interesting reading an assortment of comments where people are finding similarities between the two actors and not simply pitting one against the other. Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts and also for watching!
While I will always view Mark Hamill as The Joker, it is interesting to see how Tim Curry almost became the voice for Joker in Batman the Animated Series. I like Tim Curry and I think he could make a Joker in a one-off animated movie.
Same if they did Batman: Damned as a movie I think Tim would have been perfect, but overall Mark Hamill was destined to voice him that laugh alone is perfect
I think what makes it sound awkward is that he seemingly tried to hide his recognizable voice and accent, which is funny because Mark gave his Joker almost a theatrical British accent at times. It would have sounded fine if Curry went in with his normal voice and laugh.
Mark intentionally gave his Joker a "Mid-Atlantic" accent (like Frasier and Niles) which is an "accent" that was invented for clarity of speech in live speeches and in radio from the early 1900's, partly Mark picked it because it meant you couldn't tie Joker to any one time or place, making his true origin mysterious and unknown.
@@thenoirknight5729 yeah, in the 80s when he was on TV shows he did look really handsome in a wealthy yuppie way. At that age he would’ve been good casting as Bruce.
Tim's voice really isn't what I expected. I thought I'd hear Pennywise but his Joker sounds more like a guy from Long Island who left the Mafia to do cartoons.
This could have worked as well, but I'm still happy that it became Mark Hamill after all 🙂 Think Tim Curry could have voiced The Joker in other non Batman TAS projects as well back then.
Imagine if Kevin Conroy did a menacing voice like I always thought of another alternative version of the Justice league as monsters and the Batman equivalent would be called the Bat-King
they did do an equivalent of that being Kirk being Batman in Justice League: Gods and Monsters but it wasn't voiced by him. it was basically Man-bat but instead of him being a bat monster he suffered from a form of vampirism similar to Morbius from Marvel.
The basis behind The Batman Who Laughs. What if Bruce Wayne became the Joker while still being Batman. All of Bats Knowledge with Jokers Madness would be dangerous. When they wrote that I believe they had the voice of Conroy doing his best Mark Hamill Joker impression. Or so the Legend goes.
Truth be told I like Tim curry he has done excellent work, but him as the joker… Let's just say it was a 60/50 kind of thing. He definitely has the the motivation and it definitely sounds like a mad man, but I think he needs to be a little less theatrical and more loose with his inner madman. Mark Hamill, pretty much ingrained himself into that character Tim curry definitely has it in him, but he wasn't opening it up enough.
Clearly Mark Hamill knocked it out of the park. I still think in a live-action performace Tim Curry could have been one of the most iconic interpretations of the Joker we've ever had, because he was my first choice to play the role back in the 80's when they first announced that they were doing a new Batman movie. Curry sounds restrained simply voicing the character, but he's such a physical, manic actor that energy would definitely have come through on screen.
Many times is not the actor, it's the director and the script. My take is that the writers and the director matured their joker concept and worked better with Hamill. Tim Curry is a great actor and it's very likely he followed script and direction.
Also, Tim came in and created that voice out of basically nothing other than "not Jack Nicholson" and whatever he knew about the Joker going in. As Dan Riba (director of the show) says in the doc, Mark spent the first few episodes of the show doing his take on the voice that Tim did. i.e. Mark iterated off Tim's performance and then developed it from there over several episodes. I'm sure Tim would've done the same had he been cast instead. Plus, when you add the full production around it - music, sound FX, VO production tweaks - it's obvs going to sound better in ways that people who've never worked in production wouldn't expect. Dry vocals against otherwise silent animation are always going to sound underwhelming compared to finished animation, especially when it's undeveloped audition VO. There's a lot of people in these comments comparing Mark's developed Joker to Tim Curry's audition Joker... and you can't really compare those two things. It's like comparing the demo version of a song being written to a fully-produced cover version that adds its own flavor. Of course the finished one is going to sound better but that's because the two are in different stages of development, not because one band or the other is superior or "more right" for the song.
Hey, Man, thank YOU for sticking up for me out there! I happened upon some of your comments recently and was very moved someone (you) would do that for me and my work.
No offense to Tim, but this really puts the genius of Mark Hamill's performance into perspective. Mark's voice is just so perfect for Joker that anything else sounds like a bad dub.
I think Tim's mistake sounds like he approached it like it was a "cartoon". He may have watched some old Hanna-Barbera 70s cartoons for reference and thought "Okay, that is what they probably are going for."
Mark will always be the voice Inhear as I read Joker in panels, always starring alongside Kevin. Still hard to believe he's gone. But I know so many of us will remember him fondly.
Amazing research that went into the Stay ‘Tooned original documentary that unearthed this gem! How fascinating to see a different take on the classic Hamill!
Thank you so much for your kind words of support! There were so many personal stories that I wanted to share... it was hard to leave some on the cutting room floor but of course, Tim's take on Joker was a must!
Oh, it kills me seeing Kevin. Still, can't get over it. Thanks for releasing this. I've heard and read so much about Tim's Joker who was deemed too scary for kids. I definitely think Tim could be a wonderfully scary Joker but I don't hear it here. It shows how destined was to be this role when someone as talented as Tim had already recorded so much
Thank you for watching and commenting. There are a lot more wonderful moments with Kevin in the full documentary this clip is from, here: ruclips.net/video/OyTiWwJtvw0/видео.html
what i heard about the reason why Tim Curry's didn't voice Joker was because it was believed that his voice would be too scary for kids, but upon hearing this i think they just exaggerated it a bit.
It's weird to hear them all talk about how Tim Curry's Joker was way too scary and didn't really embrace the "funny" aspects of Joker, I kinda feel the opposite. I feel like from the footage shown, Tim Curry's Joker gives me much more of a cartoonish goofball vibe, except for maybe that one clip where his voice gets all deep. Like I imagine this is what Joker would sound like if he showed up in a Hanna-Barbara cartoon.
Wow...this video and documentary was 3 weeks ago? And then to lose Mr. Conroy yesterday...the world of superhero animation will never be the same. Because Kevin Conroy was to Batman what Peter Cullen is to Optimus Prime. RIP, Kevin Conroy. You, along with Mark Hamill, did amazing work on an animated series that I will forever treasure watching when I was growing up. (' ')7 Kevin Conroy 1955-2022
Not bad at all, it's just Mark Hamil been nursing that Trickster voice for so long by the time he'd gotten to Batman it was already a whole other personality
That is actually horrible. I'm actually okay that he didn't get this roll. It might have even been better if he just used his normal supervillian style voice.~ Cade
I went back and watched some of his footage as Pennywise and I personally would have preferred he leaned into that sound a lot more. I'm sure he had his reasons...maybe the producers didn't want to scare the kiddos TOO badly!
@@PhilMachi from the sounds of it, they were pretty clear this decision was primarily due to how frightening he sounded. But I'll be honest, to me it just sounds awful. No disrespect to him as an actor, but this particular voice was ear torture. It's one of the worst sounding Jokers I've ever heard. And I'm not even comparing it to Mark when I say that, it genuinely makes me cringe. This decision (IMHO) was well made. And I was kinda originally hoping to be sorta wrong, a strange change like this is fascinating, but to me this is like nails on a chalkboard or the sound of a cat coughing up a hairball while dying. Harsh but I'm serious. I could not stand an entire series of this voice, it would not grow on me and I would probably not have the same appreciation for it that I do today~Cade
@@CartoonCommotion I think maybe they were trying to be kind to Tim when they said it was too scary, and probably playing into his reputation as Pennywise. These clips have the voice sounding sillier in their own right than Hamill's, and not especially scary. It sounds more like a random goon, and not an especially formidable one, either. According to Tim himself, he was let go because he had bronchitis when recording (whether he meant auditioning or during actual taping, I'm not sure). That might explain why this doesn't sound like he's giving it his best, but it also sounds like nobody else knew exactly what they wanted the character to sound like yet.
I can hear in Mark's performance tiny bits from Tim's version, but Mark always goes a full 100% and these recordings of Tim's sound 40% at best and I think I'm being generous here... especially that "scream" over the vat. Now wether he was sick or not, has no bearing on effort, effort is effort and Tim's version had very little.
for the folks that find the audio offputting - It's worth keeping in mind I think - that the work we're hearing isn't mastered; not indicative of what would have been a final cut. It's pretty common for the work one might hear on a demo or audition reel to not fully express what a VA is capable of - not entirely up to snuff for what we might expect from that actor, so it may not be entirely fair to compare this to the final audio from the show that we're all already familiar with. It's useful to imagine, after listening through the lines a few times, that the 'final cut' would be much tighter and clearer; various recording artifacts cleared up - mixed and mastered with the rest of the audio, with sound effects and music playing in tandem; What we're hearing is not entirely unlike listening to an isolated vocal track from a song you're already familiar with - the flaws in the delivery are much more apparent. An isolated vocal track from what is essentially a demo for a song eventually recorded with a different vocalist. This of course, isn't to say that Curry would have been better suited for the role; that's something that's difficult to say for absolute certain considering how Hamill's final performance ended up being so instantly iconic, and how many year's we've had with that embedded in our collective cultural litanies. He's the devil we know, and well at that. But - let's pretend that we had a more polished source audio - and have some fun with imagining how differently the character might have been received, with Curry's more sinister, unhinged approach.
I think these are all really important key things to remember when watching this video and I appreciate you pointing them out (as only few others have). Hindsight is 20/20 after all. The purpose of this clip is NOT to put down Tim Curry but rather to give some insight into the making of a classic cartoon that we all love. These tidbits are interesting to me and in were in no way meant to take away from anything that anyone contributed to the series. Tim is part of the history of BTAS and as such, should be recognized.
Very interesting, because I read Tim Curry was the original voice years ago, and I was shocked and was like “YES!” Now I’m Like…”No!” I think Tim could have done a much better Joker than this.
All these years I've wanted to hear what Tim's take on the Joker was and... I can see it working. He definitely had the menace and creep but I was actually expecting something darker bu how everybody mentioned how scary his voice was. But I still need to give it to Mark Hamill for giving us that iconic Joker that has been replicated so often now. You know you've done something when others imitate your character when playing it.
Tim Curry is good in the roles intended for or designed for him, just because he was the clown Pennywise, didn't mean he was wacky. Mark Hamill on the other hand, really brought out the Joker's zany demeanour, he sounded like he was having fun while committing crimes, besides, Mark really nailed the Joker's laugh, it was the perfect combination of lunacy and intimidation. Imagine how Tim would have sounded like while saying "You Killed Captain Clown!", or how he would sound speaking to Harley Quinn, it was this what made Mark Hamill the most ideal, he sounds like someone we've all met, while Tim sounds like someone from a Shakespearean theatre.
I really thought Tim was gonna lean more heavily on Pennywise for his Joker, but I agree with others. Give him some time, and we could've gotten a genuinely creepy Joker, especially had he been around for 'Mask of the Phantasm'....
I was actually expecting it to be closer to what we ended up getting from Hamill. Ever since I first learned that Tim Curry had auditioned for the joker, I've been struck by how much the final performance kind of sounds like Curry, especially the way he draws out certain words, I can imagine that voice coming out of Tim Curry's mouth very easily.
Tim Curry's Joker is interesting to hear. It's a bit hard to objectively assess the performance though, since Hamill's version is stuck in my head forevermore.
From what I’ve read about Tim Curry’s Joker audio recordings, there’s supposedly 3-5 episodes done with Curry before Mark Hamill was hired. Would be great to get those episodes with Curry’s voice released. Cause this is just a fraction of his brief work as the Joker. Though to FINALLY hear it, is Holy Grail tier for me. Thanks for posting this!
Trust me, when I received this footage, it was a holy grail moment! I'm so glad you enjoyed it and hope you'll check out the rest of the documentary...thanks for watching!
For those who didn't know, the reason Tim got dropped was after he was Cast, Fox realized he had been used recently as the voice actor in another cartoon and Fox knew sharp fans would recognize that-as told by Mark Hamill himself
He sounds completely unrecognizable. Nobody would've noticed. And who cares if they did notice? The voice acting community is so small and exclusive, that 90% of all TV cartoons are done by basically the same 10 voice actors. Every major voice actor plays at least 50 different voice roles.
The version I’ve heard comes from Tim Curry himself. He claimed that he lost the role due to illness. He came down with Laryngitis or something, and couldn’t record the voice in the timeframe they needed.
You have to really imagine being someone in 1992 hearing that Mark Hamill, Luke Skywalker himself, is doing the voice of one of the most famous and sinister villains in comic book history. I have to imagine those reactions weren’t far off from how people initially felt about Heath Ledger taking on the role years later. On top of that, you later learn that they originally cast Tim Curry, a man you think would have been a natural fit for the role, but he ended up not working out and instead it goes to the guy known for portraying one of film’s most famous heroes.
Woah, this Joker sounds deadly, he sounds like he's gonna tell Batman to get him a carton of cigarettes, a case of Natty Daddy and some scratch off lottery tickets
Thank you so much, Everyone for Liking, Commenting, and Subscribing to my Channel! The full documentary this clip is from remains one of the most important “philms” of my career and I truly hope you take a little time to enjoy it… Stay 'Tooned! Presents - Batman: The Animated Series
ruclips.net/video/OyTiWwJtvw0/видео.html
What when they try to the voices for the other villains in the show?
Yes we've been brainwashed. Funny enough it's close to the John DiMaggio performance order in under the red hood.
Watch it. Then this video
Great video man. Shout out to theitalianstallion51
I think a lot of people are not taking into account that this was an actor testing for a role. Most voice actors - including the ones who are cast - don't nail the voice right away. They come in and try some stuff based on what little they know about the intended character (or iteration of a character) and then develop it over some amount of time. I mean, go back and listen to the first seasons of the Simpsons, Family Guy, etc. It can take a while to get into the groove of a character. Starting where Tim started, I have a feeling he would've developed it fairly quickly into a Joker just as iconic as Mark's, especially once he got a little more direction from the production team (as they figured out what they wanted as well) and got to see it in action with his voice, music, sound effects, etc. Mark knocked it out of the park right away but their interpretations of the character weren't so different that Tim couldn't have found that same groove pretty quickly had he been cast.
Also, remember that we're seeing these clips out of context, with no real production, no music, no sound effects, etc. The amount those things add to the performance can't be underestimated. I mean, yeah, I agree that Tim's VO here was missing a little something but give him some time to sculpt the voice and have them add the full-on production and I think he would've killed it just as hard as Mark does.
I've done a little bit of voice acting in games (where I was primarily a designer but sometimes subbed in on VO for prototypes, placeholder VO, easter eggs, random NPCs, or just for fun) and I can tell you that walking into a booth with a couple of pages of lines with no context, no visuals to go off of, and no clear direction from the director can be a challenge. You just try a bunch of semi-random stuff until the director or producer stops saying, "Okay, that's great. Now, let's try another one." Creating that magical voice out of nothing right out of the gate is not easy.
In fact, on one project for a major game studio, I worked with a director who had NO IDEA what he wanted from the character and, man, believe me when I tell you that makes it 10x harder. E.g. He kept having me read the line "This ain't no disco" with absolutely no context to it and whenever I asked for some sort of motivation or direction for the line or the character, he'd just say he didn't know or "Y'know, it's just... it's that line from the Talking Heads song." And I'd be like, "Yeah, but WHY is the character saying it? What's happening in the game when he's saying it?" I never got an answer but we recorded that line SO MANY times, trying different iterations with literally zero direction other than "let's try it again." And eventually my VO was replaced by Bruce Campbell which, tbh, is a decision I could never be mad at.
Tim's Joker voice is not what I expected. I've heard in many article's that his Joker was too scary for the kids, but this didn't sound scary at all
Honestly he just sounds normal, which isn't really something you want. I don't know why they think he sounded scary, he doesn't, but maybe they mean he would have been scary to kids back then.
@@williamparcell9197 he just sounds like some crazy thug here. With that voice I’d more expect him to beat Batman with a crowbar not to pull a deadly prank
If Tim curry used his natural voice I could see that being scary and much more fitting for the joker.
They most likely use the less scary scenes for the interview
Yeah, honestly, Mark's voice is WAY more chilling just because of how legitimately unhinged he can sound while this voice Tim Curry is doing is just too over the top to take that seriously.
"There's a Madman inside Mark Hamill." - Kevin Conroy
which is why both of them became legends
Tim Curry harkens back to his performance as Pennywise in the It movie. While it is a bit awkward and underwhelming, it could become menacing and dangerous with practice. Thanks for posting this.
I think you are right on the money with your description of "menacing and dangerous with practice." Thank YOU for watching!
@@PhilMachi You're welcome. Keep up the good work.
@@PhilMachi yeah because it took time for Conroy to get his voice right for Batman.
It's sad Tim Curry is hurt to much.
@@PhilMachi Exactly, look at Mark's Joker voice, at the start of Batman Arkham Asylum.
666th like
Rest in Peace Kevin. Amazing guy ❤️
You look at him in this video, you can tell he doesn't look well.
Tim Curry’s Joker reminds me of John DiMaggio’s Joker. Like a proto-version of that voice.
Exactly, I was honestly thinking it sounded like Tim Curry mixed with Bender
DiMaggio's Joker is seriously underated. It's a shame he's only played him like twice. His performance in Under the Red Hood was amazing.
That was my exact thought too and as much as I love Bender I HATED DiMaggio as Joker. I'm so glad we got Mark Hamill instead of Tim Curry
DiMaggio’s Joker sounds homosexual.
@@matthewmartin1852 he's properly rated right where he should be
This just popped up in my suggested videos, just a couple days after Kevin Conroy passed. We got the perfect cast, and nobody has ever matched Conroy and Hamill in my eyes. They were the REAL dynamic duo, and their presence was what truly gave that life. Rest in peace Kevin. You'll ALWAYS be the real Batman.
Not sure if you have seen the video Phil made when he found out Kevin Conroy had passed, but there is a clip of a story from Kevin in it that is absolutely wonderful. You can find it here:
ruclips.net/video/qz6G_cuDjvA/видео.html
Rest in peace, Kevin Conroy.
I was absolutely devastated. Kevin and Mark are truly “our” Batman and joker. The kids that grew up watching the animated series as kids. No disrespect to Tim but I mean come on.
Pretty sure the generation before yours would consider Adam West the "real" Batman.
Every generation has one. Jason O'Mara is probably the "real" Batman for the current generation who grew up on the DCAMU.
@@AxeCrazyAutobot To be fair, how many people are going to recognise Jason O'Mara by name?
I always wondered what Tim Curry sounded like as Joker, thank you for this glimpse into what could have been!
Tim actually voiced joker for the brave and the bold series
@@michaelboydston313 I don’t know that
@@michaelboydston313 no he didnt
@@michaelboydston313 no he didn't
@@michaelboydston313 Me when I spread misinformation
Keep in mind Tim's vocal range and how deep his voice can get. I'd like to hear the genuinely scary takes.
I think the difference is that Curry voiced the Joker as someone menacing. Hamill voiced the Joker as someone having the time of his life, which is what makes him a menace to US.
Conroy will always be the voice I hear when I hear the name Batman. R.I.P
I have his autograph i met 2021 for Kevin conroy
What’s interesting to me is that even though Tim is scary and Mark is funny, they still both sound very similar. Mark’s version changed over time into the definitive voice of Joker, but his early voice was not so different from Tim’s. Makes me wonder how Tim’s voice might have evolved.
well after all, originally he had to loop existing footage. so if they drew Joker expressing himself along with Tim's delivery, now Mark had to read along with that finished facial animation.
In this very video (from the documentary), Dan Riba (director of the show) says: "Mark DID make it his own but that first show... and first couple, he's kind of like doing his take on what Tim had done." i.e. Mark iterated off the voice Tim started - which they would've played for Mark as an example of something similar to what they were looking for - but had the chance to develop it over a few episodes before finally dialing in the stuff that everyone thinks sets the two apart. Had Tim gotten that same chance to develop the character, I have no doubt he would've done the same. And given that they're starting in basically the same place, I imagine they would've ended up in a very similar place as well.
Or, even if Tim had taken it in a little bit different direction, I'm sure it would have been equally iconic. Maybe a scarier take on it even. I can imagine that, if Tim had been cast and we were instead watching "Mark Hamill's Joker audition" here on YT, the same people who are talking about how much better Mark's Joker is would instead be commenting that Mark's is pretty good but is too goofy compared to Tim's iconic, chilling take on the Joker. It's all about the VO actor getting time to develop the character and, ultimately, whichever one we get used to hearing first is going to be the one we like best.
TL;DR: The voices ARE very similar. People only like Mark's better because (1) he's had time to dial it in, (2) he has full production on and around his VO which Tim's audition doesn't, and, most importantly, (3) we're used to hearing Mark's Joker, Tim's is slightly different, and the human brain is not evolved to embrace change quickly because our primitive animal brains tell us that different = bad because survival.
True but Mark's was amazing from the first episode he was in. He refined it but it was still the same. Tim's sounded more like the 70s campy version but more serious if that makes sense.
WB had a good chance to have VA DLC. I'm which the only thing the DLC has is different VA playing iconic characters.
Jim Cummings would’ve made a truly terrifying Joker.
Mark Hamill's Joker balanced humor and psychosis.
Tim Curry's Joker sounded perpetually creepy.
I like both to be honest.
Same.
Hearing Tim Curry doing the Joker’s voice is very good. He did a wonderful job doing the joker’s voice and he captured both his creepy and hilarious side of the character. But Mark Hamil really nailed the definitive voice of the character,and it became very iconic to this day. I am glad that I get hear Tim’s voice.
I’m not
@@mat7083 Same
@@SilkKreep leaves me wondering how it would have sounded finished.
It was horrible.
Not to take anything away from Mark but he had the added benefit of getting to iterate off the voice that Tim started (according to Dan Riba, director of the show), developing the voice over time (Dan mentions that, for the first few episodes, Mark was still doing his take on what Tim had done though, after those first few episodes, he made it more his own), and having us all hear it with full production around it (music, sound effects, context, etc). Had Tim been cast instead of Mark and gotten the same opportunity to develop the voice and character over a few episodes with a full production and directors and producers who figured out what they were looking for, I have no doubt he would've ended up killing it just as hard as Mark does.
I love Tim Curry in his countless animated villian roles, with Mark as Joker it gives Joker a unique voice that is a large part of why this series is so fondly remembered
I think this was just a voice demo, if given the chance Tim Curry could have been a fantastic Joker.
And we're only getting a fraction through the preview clips
Agreed, just as Conroy evolved over the seasons
Yeah, it was most likely him trying out multiple voices before finding the right one. These might be the earliest voice clips.
you know what it reminds me of? Brent Spiner's Joker. Here's a guy who has done amazing voices in the past, cackling maniacs, disturbingly cracked villains... and then we get *that* performance. And it's so flat, and just not using a fraction of his potential.
@@KairuHakubi I thought Brent was good, just not as good as he could be.
Seeing Kevin Conroy here hit me harder then expected. The man was always so gaunt, I had no idea he was ill until he was gone.
Most likely AIDs, considering his lifestyle...
@@at5297it was cancer bro. Googling takes 5 seconds .
@@fearofthedark88 It's always "cancer"...
Didnt know that batman fans are a bunch of homophobes. The big scary gays are gunna come get you woooooo
And it broke my childhood after finding out he's gay. 😣
0:25 Tim does a decent job of making the famous "grilled cheese sandwich" line menacing, but Mark's deliriously cheesy (sorry, not sorry) delivery is a high point of that episode.
To me, he sounded a LOT like Bender from Futurama there... Which is ironic, seeing as John DiMaggio has actually voiced the Joker himself.
The line as spoken by Hamill has been living rent free in my head for 30 years. So to hear this delivery is jarring
@@droptheleash1992 and his joker is EXCELLENT
@@AlanQSmithee what a stupid phrase
I think Tim would have evolved his version and it would have been awesome but it's hard to imagine anyone doing better than what Mark ultimately did.
You worded that well. I think that’s the crux of this whole scenario. Of course Tim would have evolved the character. All of us have the amazing performance of Mark lodged in our childhoods so it’s difficult to think there could be any other versions we’d enjoy. Thanks for watching/commenting!
This genuinely hurts my ears. It’s not even inherently bad, I just think Hamill is so ingrained into my mind that it makes Curry seem so unnatural and awful.
Your description kinda reminds me of when you go to drink a glass of milk but you don’t realize you actually grabbed a glass of orange juice instead and your mouth is all confused! 😆
In any case, I get what you mean. 😁
Prefiero la versión de curry. He escuchado la de Hamill pero no la he interiorizado pues con la que crecí es la versión en Castellano. Me parece que le va mejor al personaje y que va mejor con los movimientos del dibujo
right. I can't hear anybody but Mark....nothing else works
@@rocioal3145 Tiene sentido en el caso de este episodio porque estaba animado con la intención de que Curry lo interpretara, por lo que algunas de las primeras apariciones de Joker en este programa (especialmente el episodio de Navidad) parecen estar mal, ya que Hamill tuvo que trabajar en torno a los movimientos y las pocas infligiciones que los animadores pusieron para igualar la actuación de Curry
Hamill for the win
Damn, he nails that, "...Grilled cheese sandwich," line so hard you can hear it sizzle
This is one of those situations where both voice actors are extremely talented and whoever did the role first would've left their permanent mark
Completely agree with you!
Right. Tim Curry is a fantastic voice actor, and he would've killed it as the Joker. If he had gotten the role, we'd all be laughing at the idea that they even considered casting Mark Hamill instead.
I mean, Luke Skywalker as the Joker? Seriously?
(Note: I'm not bashing Mark Hamill. He's great, and his take on the Joker is iconic. It's just that we'd all be thinking differently if Tim Curry was allowed to leave his mark on the role instead and we never heard Hamill's take.)
@@TJ1380 I think Mari Hamill's worst voice acting performance was Goro Majima in the original PS2 version of Yakuza that got localized. He played it like a generic gangster. Someone should've told him Majima was pretty much the Yakuza series' version of The Joker.
Totally agree with OP here. We'd all be praising the genius of Tim Curry's work as the joker if he had gotten the role instead of Mark Hamill.
@@wantutosigh1117 same with Chris Farley who was cast as Shrek originally, but died during production. Not taking anything from Mike Myers, who did an amazing job, but hearing clips of Farley as Shrek were just as good, but different. The whole tone of the scene changed at times like he was more sensitive of a character
I wish we did have a Tim Curry Joker somewhere. Mark is definitely my favorite Joker, but Tim is amazing.
Tim really captured Joker's darker side. It makes him sound threatening. Mark on the other hand can make Joker sound whimsically funny to killer intent in one sentence, and that is scary. Mark's depiction makes it work because you don't know whether the Joker is being serious or not.
Tim Curry as Joker is the piece of lost media i never knew we needed to see until now
I think Mark clearly took some notes from Tim's performance cause they do sound similar in many ways.
Dan Riba (director of the show) says straight up in the clips from the documentary that although Mark did eventually make the voice his own, for the first few episodes he was doing his take on what Tim did with the voice. Meaning (1) Mark iterated off of Tim's performance and (2) it took him at least a few episodes to dial in what everyone loves about his Joker voice. Had Tim been cast, I'm sure he would've developed it into something equally iconic, especially given the very similar place they started with it.
@@johnplaysgames3120 yeah, always thought Joker sounded off in his first few appearances, especially Christmastime With The Joker
@@mrcritical6751 yep now you know why joker sounds so different from the first few episodes of the animated series to when current day joker.
I didn't realize until watching this how much our idea of what the Joker is "supposed" to sound like came from Mark Hamill's legendary performance. Tim Curry is doing really good here. If they had gone with him, this would be the gold standard of Joker.
Tim Curry sounds funny as the Joker. I love Mark Hamill's voice better. Hamill brought a mix of comedy and horror to the Joker.
Rest In Peace Batman.
Tim Curry makes the character feel more controlled, like it isn't truly primal insanity driving the character. Where as Mark brings this level of insanity to the character that feels more like a raw nerve...the insanity is driving the character rather than just tapping into it.
That’s only because they replace him before he had a chance to really thrive. If given the chance dare I say he would have made a better joker than mark Hamill himself.
@@geeebuttersnap2433 I am not saying it is bad. It is different more than anything. But when you look at Joker as a case study...he is primal insanity. Completely unhinged. One day he could pie you in the face and find that peak hilarity...the next he could shoot you in the face and find that equally hilarious. Joker has only ever shown restraint when society collapsed and there were no heroes to save the day so he took up the role of an anti-hero. And when he was partnered up with Red Skull...because even insane people can't tolerate racists.
Tim Curry merely adopted the dark, while Mark Hamill was born in it. Molded by it.
I think what @Geeebuttersnap was saying is that Mark had a chance to develop the character to reach that primal insanity vibe that you're talking about whereas Tim just did an audition. You can't really compare those as equal things. Also, it's worth noting, based on what Dan Riba (director of the show) said in this documentary, Tim came in and was given the direction "not like Jack Nicholson," leaving him to come up with a Joker voice out of basically nothing whereas Mark was iterating off of the voice that Tim started. And, according to Dan, though mark DID make it his own eventually, for the first few episodes he was just doing his take on what Tim did. Meaning it took him several episodes to dial in what everyone likes about his Joker.
Basically, had Tim been cast, he would've had the same opportunity to find the primal crazy that you're referencing as Mark did and, tbh, I think he would've ended up with something probably similar and certainly just as iconic.
@@johnplaysgames3120 I get that. Tim Curry is a great actor. Still the best Pennywise in my opinion...but I don't think he could do the insanity of The Joker like Hamill can. Curry is good at playing a menacing, threatening character...but I dunno if he could switch between menacing and outright insane like Hamill does.
What's really surprising is how similar both voices are. I'm sure Tim Curry would have grown into the role splendidly, as he is a phenomenal actor, but Mark Hamill really brought the character to life. The tiny bits of falsetto and voice cracking that Mark brought in are now so ingrained into the character, that it's hard to imagine anyone else doing the role.
1:22
That's the point where I hear the "it's too scary" comments. Take that two seconds and imagine the Joker's monologue from "Beyond: Return". Imagine Curry talking about torturing and brainwashing Tim. That's horrifying.
I completely agree. Curry has an incredible range that has shown throughout his career. It would have been fascinating to see him really lock into it with Joker to display what he was clearly capable of. Obviously I am thankful for Mark - in the end, he locked in and hit the ground running.
@@PhilMachi don't get me wrong, any voice that's not Mark Hamill coming from that Joker is cursed but that's because we've had thirty years with Hamill. If we had gotten Tim Curry as the permanent Joker the character over those same thirty years would look nothing like it does now, the Arkham games IMO would be darker with much less of the comedic edge
Honestly he kind of sounds like Mark Hamil lol
@@thewewguy8t88 As Dan Riba mentions in the clips from the doc, for the first few episodes of the show, Mark was doing his take on the voice that Tim did. The only difference between them, really, is that Mark got the chance to develop the voice and character whereas Tim just did an audition where he tried a voice.
@@djcook3991 Maybe. Mark had the chance to develop the voice and character and dial it in, Tim didn't. We honestly don't know what he would've done with it. Given that Mark started out by iterating off the voice Tim did (according to Dan Riba in the doc), it's possible they would've ended up in a very similar place. I mean, it's not like Tim Curry doesn't do comedy. With a few episodes to explore the character and understand the humor aspect of the Joker, I can imagine he would've found the same vibe Mark did.
Miss you Kevin C., RIP.
I like how weird it is that it's kind of a goofy voice juxtaposed to how dark the episode is, but it also just sounds kind of underwhelming as a performance. I feel like if he had gotten to keep the role, though, it might have evolved into something a little better, especially given that Eric even admits that they didn't know what they wanted.
My thoughts exactly. The whole performance sounds like Tim is searching for the right balance between silly and sinister. It would be interesting to see how he would have developed the character over time.
@@PhilMachi apparently Tim had bronchitis when recording this so that’s probably why he was off
@@mrcritical6751 not only that but it may not seem important but not having any other sound other than his voiceover sounds more off
@@eyetipe8362 I was just thinking this. Raw dialog usually sounds fine, then gets strange paired with the visuals alone, then makes sense again after some editing. Post adds a lot, but just dialog and animation is uncanny. I do still think it was sort of underwhelming, but I'd *like* to think it's mostly because we're glimpsing an in-between phase of a performance done while ill.
Tim was creating the character out of basically nothing other than the direction "not like Jack Nicholson." As Dan Riba mentions, Mark was iterating off of the voice that Tim did and it STILL took him several episodes of the show to dial it in. I'm sure Tim would've done the same, given the chance.
Also, if you've ever recorded music, you know that there's a HUGE difference between dry vocals and vocals that are produced and have music around them. Part of the "underwhelming" aspect of Tim's performance that you're hearing is that there's no production around them - no music, no sound FX, no production on the VO - they're just dry and that's always going to sound underwhelming, no matter who's doing the voice or how well they're doing it. And, as you mentioned, they're test/audition VO. He's trying out stuff for a character that is undefined by the directors and producers at that moment, whereas Mark came in and iterated off of Tim's performance. Obviously, it's not going to be fully dialed in.
I think either of them would've killed it as the Joker, Mark just got the chance to develop the voice and character. You're not one of them, obvs, but some of the people in these comments are being a little harsh on Tim's take, given all the RL considerations around it.
Rip Kevin Conroy and best of wishes Tim curry. Glad you got this video before hand.
He sounds almost like John DiMaggio’s Joker from Under the Red Hood, but yeah his voice does not fit this version’s look at all
I feel like John DiMaggio captured it perfectly
Hearing Tim Curry's version, and hearing his other voice work and acting, i think that the show creators had an idea for a voice that Tim Curry would be perfect for. But Tim might have had a little different spin on it, and Mark Hamill was able to deliver more of what the show runners were looking for from Tim Curry.
I often think that Mark Hamill's joker sounds like a lot of Tim Curry characters.
They are both iconic performers.
Thanks for the vid.
It's been especially interesting reading an assortment of comments where people are finding similarities between the two actors and not simply pitting one against the other. Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts and also for watching!
Tim curry would have been a remarkable joker since he played pennywise. He’s got a really hilarious voice.
Kevin claiming theres a madman inside Mark Hamil is amazing
While I will always view Mark Hamill as The Joker, it is interesting to see how Tim Curry almost became the voice for Joker in Batman the Animated Series. I like Tim Curry and I think he could make a Joker in a one-off animated movie.
A 3 Jokers animated movie could do it.
@@liamfitzgerald7217 if he is still capable on the condition he has at this specific point
Isn't Curry Dead?
@@dubuyajay9964 no he is still alive
Same if they did Batman: Damned as a movie I think Tim would have been perfect, but overall Mark Hamill was destined to voice him that laugh alone is perfect
Rip Kevin Conroy. Rest easy Dark Knight.
I love Tim Curry. I really think that he would've been a great Joker
Did you forget brave and the bold
@@michaelboydston313 that's Jeff Bennett
@@jacobdehaan4114 oops, the Mandela effect got me
Rest in Peace Kevin Conroy you'll always be the perfect Dark Knight.
I think what makes it sound awkward is that he seemingly tried to hide his recognizable voice and accent, which is funny because Mark gave his Joker almost a theatrical British accent at times. It would have sounded fine if Curry went in with his normal voice and laugh.
Mark intentionally gave his Joker a "Mid-Atlantic" accent (like Frasier and Niles) which is an "accent" that was invented for clarity of speech in live speeches and in radio from the early 1900's, partly Mark picked it because it meant you couldn't tie Joker to any one time or place, making his true origin mysterious and unknown.
@@RandomAccessDreams Yeah, there was a time they taught that accent in schools so rich Americans could sound more posh.
Wow seeing Mr .Conroy is just awesome... Rest in peace ☮️🕊️🕊️ legend
Kevin unironically looks like the comic Joker
Looked like a perfect Bruce Wayne 30 years ago
@@thenoirknight5729 yeah, in the 80s when he was on TV shows he did look really handsome in a wealthy yuppie way. At that age he would’ve been good casting as Bruce.
@@Nightman221k The man was smoking hot in his younger days.
Not really.
Terminal cancer can do that to you.
His joker sounds like hamils joker trying to do a freakzoid impression.
I've been waiting 30 years to finally hear this, thank you!
I love Tim, he's amazing but Mark was the right fit in this case IMO.
Wow! I never knew Tim Curry did some voicing for the Joker! That was amazing!
Tim's voice really isn't what I expected. I thought I'd hear Pennywise but his Joker sounds more like a guy from Long Island who left the Mafia to do cartoons.
FINALLY we get to hear a little of Curry's Joker!
I don't care who plays batman in movies. Kevin Conroy will always be the real batman. RIP to a truly legend 🙌 🙏 😪
This could have worked as well, but I'm still happy that it became Mark Hamill after all 🙂 Think Tim Curry could have voiced The Joker in other non Batman TAS projects as well back then.
It's great to hear more from this late great
Hats off to you philli
Imagine if Kevin Conroy did a menacing voice like I always thought of another alternative version of the Justice league as monsters and the Batman equivalent would be called the Bat-King
You mean like 'Justice League: Of Gods and Monsters'?
they did do an equivalent of that being Kirk being Batman in Justice League: Gods and Monsters but it wasn't voiced by him. it was basically Man-bat but instead of him being a bat monster he suffered from a form of vampirism similar to Morbius from Marvel.
well if kevin been cast on marvel animated movie, he should voice dracula
The basis behind The Batman Who Laughs. What if Bruce Wayne became the Joker while still being Batman. All of Bats Knowledge with Jokers Madness would be dangerous. When they wrote that I believe they had the voice of Conroy doing his best Mark Hamill Joker impression. Or so the Legend goes.
This makes me SO glad that they got Mark Hamill to do it.
Truth be told I like Tim curry he has done excellent work, but him as the joker… Let's just say it was a 60/50 kind of thing.
He definitely has the the motivation and it definitely sounds like a mad man, but I think he needs to be a little less theatrical and more loose with his inner madman. Mark Hamill, pretty much ingrained himself into that character Tim curry definitely has it in him, but he wasn't opening it up enough.
Clearly Mark Hamill knocked it out of the park.
I still think in a live-action performace Tim Curry could have been one of the most iconic interpretations of the Joker we've ever had, because he was my first choice to play the role back in the 80's when they first announced that they were doing a new Batman movie. Curry sounds restrained simply voicing the character, but he's such a physical, manic actor that energy would definitely have come through on screen.
Many times is not the actor, it's the director and the script. My take is that the writers and the director matured their joker concept and worked better with Hamill. Tim Curry is a great actor and it's very likely he followed script and direction.
Also, Tim came in and created that voice out of basically nothing other than "not Jack Nicholson" and whatever he knew about the Joker going in. As Dan Riba (director of the show) says in the doc, Mark spent the first few episodes of the show doing his take on the voice that Tim did. i.e. Mark iterated off Tim's performance and then developed it from there over several episodes. I'm sure Tim would've done the same had he been cast instead.
Plus, when you add the full production around it - music, sound FX, VO production tweaks - it's obvs going to sound better in ways that people who've never worked in production wouldn't expect. Dry vocals against otherwise silent animation are always going to sound underwhelming compared to finished animation, especially when it's undeveloped audition VO.
There's a lot of people in these comments comparing Mark's developed Joker to Tim Curry's audition Joker... and you can't really compare those two things. It's like comparing the demo version of a song being written to a fully-produced cover version that adds its own flavor. Of course the finished one is going to sound better but that's because the two are in different stages of development, not because one band or the other is superior or "more right" for the song.
Man I love it when lost media gets found.
Thanks for uploading these scenes separately in one video clip.
Hey, Man, thank YOU for sticking up for me out there! I happened upon some of your comments recently and was very moved someone (you) would do that for me and my work.
@@PhilMachi You are welcome. After all, we only have the footage of Tim Curry's interpretation of Joker thanks to your enthusiastic effort.
No offense to Tim, but this really puts the genius of Mark Hamill's performance into perspective. Mark's voice is just so perfect for Joker that anything else sounds like a bad dub.
I think Tim's mistake sounds like he approached it like it was a "cartoon". He may have watched some old Hanna-Barbera 70s cartoons for reference and thought "Okay, that is what they probably are going for."
Mark will always be the voice Inhear as I read Joker in panels, always starring alongside Kevin. Still hard to believe he's gone. But I know so many of us will remember him fondly.
WOW thanks for this. I never thought I'd see Tim Curry's version of the Joker at all. I'd love to hear more of it.
Amazing research that went into the Stay ‘Tooned original documentary that unearthed this gem!
How fascinating to see a different take on the classic Hamill!
Thank you so much for your kind words of support! There were so many personal stories that I wanted to share... it was hard to leave some on the cutting room floor but of course, Tim's take on Joker was a must!
R.I.P. Kevin Conroy
When he said "You're gonna MELT." I heard his Penny Wise come out. Was not 100% sure it was Tim until then.
Oh, it kills me seeing Kevin. Still, can't get over it. Thanks for releasing this. I've heard and read so much about Tim's Joker who was deemed too scary for kids. I definitely think Tim could be a wonderfully scary Joker but I don't hear it here. It shows how destined was to be this role when someone as talented as Tim had already recorded so much
Thank you for watching and commenting. There are a lot more wonderful moments with Kevin in the full documentary this clip is from, here: ruclips.net/video/OyTiWwJtvw0/видео.html
@@PhilMachi Thank you and my pleasure 👍
what i heard about the reason why Tim Curry's didn't voice Joker was because it was believed that his voice would be too scary for kids, but upon hearing this i think they just exaggerated it a bit.
It's weird to hear them all talk about how Tim Curry's Joker was way too scary and didn't really embrace the "funny" aspects of Joker, I kinda feel the opposite. I feel like from the footage shown, Tim Curry's Joker gives me much more of a cartoonish goofball vibe, except for maybe that one clip where his voice gets all deep. Like I imagine this is what Joker would sound like if he showed up in a Hanna-Barbara cartoon.
huh, Tim Curry reminds me more of Joe DiMaggio. Always was curious to hear how he sounded, and yeah it's different.
That's exactly what I thought
@@theotherguy21 and DiMaggio has already done Joker before also..... kinda was expecting Peter Pan and the Pirates style Tim Curry.
@@crithon I was honestly expecting Home Alone 2 style Curry
@@mrcritical6751 I'm impressed he has so much range. Maybe this would be an elseworld voice
Wow...this video and documentary was 3 weeks ago? And then to lose Mr. Conroy yesterday...the world of superhero animation will never be the same.
Because Kevin Conroy was to Batman what Peter Cullen is to Optimus Prime.
RIP, Kevin Conroy. You, along with Mark Hamill, did amazing work on an animated series that I will forever treasure watching when I was growing up.
(' ')7
Kevin Conroy
1955-2022
I’ve heard Tim Curry do dozens of voices in the Series of Unfortunate Events audiobooks, and I still had a hard time recognizing his voice here.
It's like a really angry version of Captain Hook from Fox's Peter Pan and the Pirates.
Not bad at all, it's just Mark Hamil been nursing that Trickster voice for so long by the time he'd gotten to Batman it was already a whole other personality
Everyone is forgetting this is basically test footage, without sound effects, proper mixing, and score, it's gonna sound a bit awkward
I wish Tim would just use his regular voice.
All of Tim Curry's Joker Voice Lines.
0:02, 0:22, 0:47, 1:10, 1:22, 1:33, 2:41.
In episode order.
1:22, 0:02, 0:22, 1:33, 1:10, 0:47, 2:41.
That is actually horrible. I'm actually okay that he didn't get this roll. It might have even been better if he just used his normal supervillian style voice.~ Cade
I went back and watched some of his footage as Pennywise and I personally would have preferred he leaned into that sound a lot more. I'm sure he had his reasons...maybe the producers didn't want to scare the kiddos TOO badly!
@@PhilMachi from the sounds of it, they were pretty clear this decision was primarily due to how frightening he sounded. But I'll be honest, to me it just sounds awful. No disrespect to him as an actor, but this particular voice was ear torture. It's one of the worst sounding Jokers I've ever heard. And I'm not even comparing it to Mark when I say that, it genuinely makes me cringe. This decision (IMHO) was well made. And I was kinda originally hoping to be sorta wrong, a strange change like this is fascinating, but to me this is like nails on a chalkboard or the sound of a cat coughing up a hairball while dying. Harsh but I'm serious. I could not stand an entire series of this voice, it would not grow on me and I would probably not have the same appreciation for it that I do today~Cade
@@CartoonCommotion I think maybe they were trying to be kind to Tim when they said it was too scary, and probably playing into his reputation as Pennywise. These clips have the voice sounding sillier in their own right than Hamill's, and not especially scary. It sounds more like a random goon, and not an especially formidable one, either.
According to Tim himself, he was let go because he had bronchitis when recording (whether he meant auditioning or during actual taping, I'm not sure). That might explain why this doesn't sound like he's giving it his best, but it also sounds like nobody else knew exactly what they wanted the character to sound like yet.
I can hear in Mark's performance tiny bits from Tim's version, but Mark always goes a full 100% and these recordings of Tim's sound 40% at best and I think I'm being generous here... especially that "scream" over the vat. Now wether he was sick or not, has no bearing on effort, effort is effort and Tim's version had very little.
To be fair, this was an early Joker appearance. If he did some later episodes, he would've sounded better.
for the folks that find the audio offputting - It's worth keeping in mind I think - that the work we're hearing isn't mastered; not indicative of what would have been a final cut. It's pretty common for the work one might hear on a demo or audition reel to not fully express what a VA is capable of - not entirely up to snuff for what we might expect from that actor, so it may not be entirely fair to compare this to the final audio from the show that we're all already familiar with.
It's useful to imagine, after listening through the lines a few times, that the 'final cut' would be much tighter and clearer; various recording artifacts cleared up - mixed and mastered with the rest of the audio, with sound effects and music playing in tandem; What we're hearing is not entirely unlike listening to an isolated vocal track from a song you're already familiar with - the flaws in the delivery are much more apparent. An isolated vocal track from what is essentially a demo for a song eventually recorded with a different vocalist.
This of course, isn't to say that Curry would have been better suited for the role; that's something that's difficult to say for absolute certain considering how Hamill's final performance ended up being so instantly iconic, and how many year's we've had with that embedded in our collective cultural litanies. He's the devil we know, and well at that.
But - let's pretend that we had a more polished source audio - and have some fun with imagining how differently the character might have been received, with Curry's more sinister, unhinged approach.
I think these are all really important key things to remember when watching this video and I appreciate you pointing them out (as only few others have). Hindsight is 20/20 after all. The purpose of this clip is NOT to put down Tim Curry but rather to give some insight into the making of a classic cartoon that we all love. These tidbits are interesting to me and in were in no way meant to take away from anything that anyone contributed to the series. Tim is part of the history of BTAS and as such, should be recognized.
Very interesting, because I read Tim Curry was the original voice years ago, and I was shocked and was like “YES!” Now I’m
Like…”No!” I think Tim could have done a much better Joker than this.
Yeah, I love Tim Curry and think he'd make a great Joker, but I'm just not hearing it here.
All these years I've wanted to hear what Tim's take on the Joker was and... I can see it working. He definitely had the menace and creep but I was actually expecting something darker bu how everybody mentioned how scary his voice was.
But I still need to give it to Mark Hamill for giving us that iconic Joker that has been replicated so often now. You know you've done something when others imitate your character when playing it.
Tim Curry is good in the roles intended for or designed for him, just because he was the clown Pennywise, didn't mean he was wacky. Mark Hamill on the other hand, really brought out the Joker's zany demeanour, he sounded like he was having fun while committing crimes, besides, Mark really nailed the Joker's laugh, it was the perfect combination of lunacy and intimidation. Imagine how Tim would have sounded like while saying "You Killed Captain Clown!", or how he would sound speaking to Harley Quinn, it was this what made Mark Hamill the most ideal, he sounds like someone we've all met, while Tim sounds like someone from a Shakespearean theatre.
I miss Kevin so much
I really thought Tim was gonna lean more heavily on Pennywise for his Joker, but I agree with others. Give him some time, and we could've gotten a genuinely creepy Joker, especially had he been around for 'Mask of the Phantasm'....
Was wondering why tim didn't
Tim Curry came in to do the voice acting, but Killer Croc threw a rock at him.
I knew Mark Hamill was perfect for the Joker when I first saw him as the Trickster in the original Flash series in the 90’s.
Given more time, he would have fit the role. Though I'm definitely happy with Mark.
I was actually expecting it to be closer to what we ended up getting from Hamill. Ever since I first learned that Tim Curry had auditioned for the joker, I've been struck by how much the final performance kind of sounds like Curry, especially the way he draws out certain words, I can imagine that voice coming out of Tim Curry's mouth very easily.
Tim Curry's Joker is interesting to hear. It's a bit hard to objectively assess the performance though, since Hamill's version is stuck in my head forevermore.
From what I’ve read about Tim Curry’s Joker audio recordings, there’s supposedly 3-5 episodes done with Curry before Mark Hamill was hired.
Would be great to get those episodes with Curry’s voice released. Cause this is just a fraction of his brief work as the Joker. Though to FINALLY hear it, is Holy Grail tier for me. Thanks for posting this!
Trust me, when I received this footage, it was a holy grail moment! I'm so glad you enjoyed it and hope you'll check out the rest of the documentary...thanks for watching!
Tim Curry is doing a bit of the Blue Meanie as well.
Kevin Conroy looks like he’s ready for Batman who laughs
For those who didn't know, the reason Tim got dropped was after he was Cast, Fox realized he had been used recently as the voice actor in another cartoon and Fox knew sharp fans would recognize that-as told by Mark Hamill himself
He sounds completely unrecognizable. Nobody would've noticed. And who cares if they did notice? The voice acting community is so small and exclusive, that 90% of all TV cartoons are done by basically the same 10 voice actors. Every major voice actor plays at least 50 different voice roles.
@@joeybaseball7352 Not arguing with you about the voice acting, I am just telling you what Mark Hamill said happened.
The version I’ve heard comes from Tim Curry himself. He claimed that he lost the role due to illness. He came down with Laryngitis or something, and couldn’t record the voice in the timeframe they needed.
Tim Curry’s Joker sounds a lot like John DiMaggio’s Joker.
You have to really imagine being someone in 1992 hearing that Mark Hamill, Luke Skywalker himself, is doing the voice of one of the most famous and sinister villains in comic book history. I have to imagine those reactions weren’t far off from how people initially felt about Heath Ledger taking on the role years later. On top of that, you later learn that they originally cast Tim Curry, a man you think would have been a natural fit for the role, but he ended up not working out and instead it goes to the guy known for portraying one of film’s most famous heroes.
When they played Mark Hamill after all the Tim curry stuff I’ve haven’t felt such relief in so long.
He was one of those overqualified for the job situations
Woah, this Joker sounds deadly, he sounds like he's gonna tell Batman to get him a carton of cigarettes, a case of Natty Daddy and some scratch off lottery tickets
🤣🤣🤣