How Does Polishing a Cymbal Change the Sound?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Perhaps with a dirtier cymbal, there would be a much bigger difference. I will make another video examining this next time i encounter a significantly more dirty cymbal. This moreso demonstrates the effect of polish in semi-isolation rather than the dirt/tarnish effect.
Links:
►Discord: / discord
► Twitch: / wafflesfromnowhere
► Twitter: / nowherewaffles
► Bandcamp: wafflesfromnow...
► Soundcloud: / user-123062553
![KAYTRANADA - Witchy (feat. Childish Gambino) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jGK3YVmGZ3Y/mqdefault.jpg)
Nice! It sounds like it can breathe out more after the polish
Hard to describe... the highs are moving around a lot more after the polish. Sounds more alive.
More overtones and resonates longer. Absolutely (more) beautiful in appearance and sound. ❤❤
Polished feels very slightly washier and darker to me. For this effect taken to an extreme level, The Drum Thing has a video about an orchestral cymbal painted solid black, and he compares sound before and after cleaning the paint off.
Love the drum set 🤘
Thank you!
The sonic equivalent to washing a well seasoned iron skillet
🤣
I acquired a mid-60's A medium thin 18" crash around 1999, that was caked in patina, looked like it hadn't been cleaned in at least 25 years. I only assume it had been cleaned at one point because the logos were gone, I dated it by the stamp in the metal. After cleaning, I got the same result. I polish my cymbals. Don't care about the logos, my drums are a tool, not a billboard.
I polish mine and I believe they sound a bit crisper afterwards. One thing is for sure, they look exceedingly better and that gives me more playing satisfaction. I even built a rotating motorized mount to make polishing a whole lot faster and easier.
Love the Neil Peart Kit
Thank you! Very fun to put together :)
When you polish the cymbal you’re pulling metal out and eventually weakening that cymbal to the point where it will be more susceptible to breakage. That’s why there’s a small difference in pitch. It wouldn’t matter how shiny new the cymbal was if you started rubbing it with a cloth your cloth will be black from the cymbal
I saw that video with Mr. Wheaton as well. But I think that's more because he was polishing those Cymbals just about every gig.
i feel like the pre-polished just doesn't have the resonance the polished cymbal has, wouldn't be as good for jazz when that shhhhhhhh sound really carries
The question is, will the difference even be noticeable in a mix?
A very astute question! :)
Something got taken out of the sound and it's not a bad thing. I think it sounds more "open" after polishing. Like a little dust was shaken out of the frequencies.
Sounded same to me
Nooooo, the dirt is what smoothes out the harshness!
The only difference is it shines more and the rare hollow Zildjian logo is now gone :P
Sounds like it was more articulate and had slightly more resonance after polishing
Everyone else the second I opne the comments:
It's so complex the sound waves in comparison of before the polish and after
Me: It's the same picture
I feel like it's not very big of a difference, both versions can be usable. But mostly it's probably more about consistency of how your instrument sounds.
I hear more top end on the bell, that's about it.
So what I cam hear Is that after polishing said cymbal in question has better stick definition and the higher frequencies ring out a little more and longer
No not at all brighter. I have 165 zildjians on my set
wow polishing took it from a Clang to a Ting! thats a clear whole letter reduction!
A little brighter and much more sustain
Yep, I prefer unpolished and dirty please!
Rush Bass drums !!
indeed!
It's a little washier after polishing, I think it sounds better.
Yes, given without the weight of the layer of dirt and its muffling, the higher frequencies of cymbals are able to speak a little louder and ring a little longer. Hear it? The polished one sounds more "shimmery." Imagine we sprayed a thick layer of spray-glue all over it simulating a fat layer of dirt. It would indeed sound different. Do the experiment again, and show us the frequency signatures. Collect data. 👍🏻
This was not intended to be a scientific experiment, otherwise merely striking the cymbal with my hand rather than setting up a device to strike the cymbal with perfect consistency automatically introduces a variable to invalidate it anyway. This was intended to a quick video to demonstrate the difference to someone who asked in a previous video. If soneone else wants to do this as a scientific process to determine exact measurable differences, i encourage them to do so.
A. It's your personal choice
B. Vintage cymbals are not supposed to be fully cleaned only sympathetically
C. Is for Cookie!
D. Modern alloys can take cleaning if needed, newer cymbals that are bright and shiny can stay shiny longer too with proper care and cleaning
Xyz. If in doubt ask a professional, which I am not. Lol
Más brillo y sustain pero igual suena muy feo ese platillo yo creo.
Didn't ruin it. Sounds sweeter!
much better before
warmer balanced
no one needs those fresh frequencies
My opinion? I think if I switched to my brightest headphones I might hear a difference. Maybe in my monitors cranked up. In these AirPods idk if I do or if I just want to. In a mix? I highly doubt it. Without being told there might be? I doubt I would.
I can hear a clear difference on my Samsung phone speaker. Check your ears.
Personally, the patina sounded better. But what’s more concerning is the fact that you polished out the hollow logo 😭
😆
It sounds like it’s stolen
Raised harmonics. You want ear damage? It does sound better polished.
Nah the pitch was higher
Sounds different, but you need to eliminate unconscious human bias. You could drop a ball bearing from a fixed height and location to get perfectly consistent strikes.
If/when i ever undertake further testing for this, absolutely! That was actually on my mind when i recorded this, but i decided against rigging something like that up just because of the time and the main purpose of this video. The point of this video being; if there's such a small difference that it would (and in this case, likely should be) attributed to human inconsistency, than the difference is largely irrelevant
Polished cymbals are for looks ! Sound is same , coming from opinion of drummer since '75
It’s a great sounding cymbal so either way you’re fine. I think cleaning brought out some of the high frequencies, dirty you felt a little more of the low frequencies. In a band mix I doubt most people could tell the difference. I think it’s important to note that lots of us musicians see with our eyes, if you like shiny cymbals you’ll like it more. I love dirty crusty cymbals and sold one to a buddy. When he played me a recording it was on (20” Zildjian med ride) I thought there’s my cymbal, but when I saw it polished I asked when he did it, it was before the recording. I say do what makes you happy!!!!
Cymbals must be polished. Those jazz fanatics who say it's wrong have serious issues
sounds a little more resonant to me
Didnt i see your drumset for sale on Reverb or did you buy it
Nope, bought most it direct from the previous owner a little over a year ago.
I pour beer on my cymbals to make them sound better
😆
I couldn't tell the difference with the edge hit. The body hit sounded slightly different but not enough to judge if it was better or worse.
What polish and drill attachment did you use? Also, any tips for removing a factory applied patina on a cymbal?
I used Flitz metal polish, and it wasn't a drill attachment, i was a dedcated polishing buffer, though i'm sure they do make attachments that do the same thing for a regular drill. I'd imagine the Flitz should do a good job also removing the patina also, but if if it doesn't, you could try doing a pass with Brasso first, then following up with Flitz. Brasso tends to be more agressive for cleaning, but doesn't get the shine that Flitz does
What did you polish it with?
Flitz metal polish
Collectors are punching the air right now 😂
A big part of the reason i made this in the first place 😂
@@FromNowhereMusic nice 😎
I hear no difference.
Editing out the full sustain defeats the point of the experiment.
if this was a scientific experiment, and not a video for RUclips Shorts in which the maximum run time is under 1 minute, i would agree.
@@FromNowhereMusic Showing us a screenshot of their signatures would only take one second, a second we can simply pause on ; )
@@MeowfaceMusic As i said in my other reply, i welcome someone else with the time and willingness to do all that extra legwork to take a more scientific approach. That was not the objective here.
@@FromNowhereMusic 👍
Crash sound exactly the same. However, when tapping A and B, B sounds slightly darker!
Could definitely tell a difference for both.
Much better, always polish your cymbals folks.
I'm all set, thanks.
“It definitely looks like a cymbal from the 70s”
Me a normal person: all cymbals look the same
Haha i meant just from the condition it was in, as cymbals age they naturally pick up discolorationa and small nicks all over them. Doesn't really come across as clearly in video
my wife: sounds like a cymbal
That's a damn good question. They don't quite sound the same, but it's pretty damn close if you switched back and forest in a song trying to make me notice I probably wouldn't tell.
To the question: 'did it ruin the sound?' the answer is obviously 'no.', but it definitely looks a lot better.
I'm curious how copper, bronze, pewter, tin, brass, mild steel, magnesium, aluminum, cast iron, nickel, silver, gold, and wrought iron steel cymbals might sound. They look brass or bronze, and I assume there's a reason for it, but I'm beyond certain that'd make way more difference than any corrosion could ever hope to approach.
My guess is that if cash was no limit, drummers would probably use solid steel or gold cymbals and they'd sound marginally different.
I've actually seen Steel cymbals before, they really wouldn't ualify as Cymbals iMO. A lot of his has to do with the properties of the metal and hw that allows them to resonate. Steel resonates (At least in the 1 steel cymbal i've seen) with far fewer overtones, which makes it more suited to instruments with defined pitch, like a Glockenspiel or a Vibraphone. Cymbals rely on a complex series of overtones as they resonate to create the "washy" sound. That being said, a sample size of 1 does not inherently disprove the posibility of it's use, let alone the several other metals you mentioned, and i'm sure alloy and manufacturing process has a lot to do with shaping the sound as well. So would definitely be an interestign experiment if someone chooses to udnertake it someday!
@@FromNowhereMusic the overtone properties of the metal alloy are an obvious consideration and brass is very 'musical', for lack of a better term, which is why it's often used for all sorts of instruments, especially the literal "brass section", but it isn't perfectly unique in that regard.
Based on my engineering and material science knowledge, bronze seems to be superior in a few ways, but it's significantly more expensive and harder to work with [heating cycles for forging, and it casts a bit thicker too]. It may also be less malleable and therefore yield thicker instruments, and it's also heavier than brass is by volume.
Acoustically speaking, silver and gold may be the best alloys, but they're both quite soft metals and a pure gold ride cymbal would run you at least a quarter million dollars in materials alone.
The metal properties, regarding overtones, can also be significantly augmented by the shape of the instrument as well. It might take some absurd engineering and manufacturing tolerances to get a steel saxophone to behave correctly through the whole pitch range, but a cymbal could reasonably be done that way using ridges, indentations, and thickness variation. This would probably be an exercise in making it sound like brass though, in which case..just use brass.
Steel is probably just a bad idea, but bronze and silver alloys do seem to me to be a fairly reasonable option that may give notably better results than brass, albeit at significantly added cost. I'm sure I'm not the first to think of this though, so there's probably a reason no one makes flutes from bronze.
Actually, I stand corrected. There's a shitload of bronze flutes on the market. Some are plated, some are solid, and everything in between. Saxophones and trombones too. Apparently 'pro' instruments are often more expensive BECAUSE they're bronze. Pewter too.
My own saxophone might actually be made of nickel-plated bronze, not brass, this whole time and I just never knew it. Maybe cymbals too. Bronze and brass aren't obvious to tell apart visually.
The metals are definitely a big deal, but you're wrong about steel or gold.
Steel is used for a lot of accessories and bell kits. It's great for when you want a clear note. The worst thing you can get from a cymbal is a clear note. Triangles used to be made primarily from steel but as the purity of steel has increased, triangles started getting too pitchy. Most decent triangles are now bronze.
Gold would be too heavy and soft. I'm doubtful it would be able to hold the shape of a cymbal under load if made thin enough to sound decent.
Cast bronze is great for cymbals because of its rather messy nature. Soft enough to sound good, strong enough to hold the shape. The blend of metals helps prevent a clear pitch from dominating. Hammering is also a big part of generating a cymbals sound. Bronze can be easily formed while steel more or less resists that kind of treatment.
Cast iron is used in a lot of Percussion instruments. It's too brittle for most applications but if you need to bang on a skillet or brake drum, you get a very bright, clear, and articulate sound. It's beautiful but doesn't sound like a cymbal.
Pewter can't take a hit. It's too soft. It also doesn't have much tone.
Copper is the primary metal in brass and bronze. It's pretty, but it's too soft to be hit directly for any length of time.
Cymbals were made of brass once upon a time. It's too bright and harsh. It's used in musical instruments primarily because it used to be cheap, it's heavy, it's easy to work, and it resonates pretty clearly.
Gold is primarily used in wind instruments because of its thermal properties. Keeping an instrument at temp is important for winds.
Silver gets used in flutes and clarinet keyword. Makes for strong, hypoallergenic keys. The clarity of pitch and overtones does well for flutes. It's also used as plating for brass instruments. It's harder than brass, so you get a brighter sound and an instrument that's easier to keep bright looking.
@@austinshoupe3003 woah! Cool response, thanks! :)
Polishing in no way could ever change the sound. Looks great ,polishing is fun.
Everyone saying it "can breathe more" and "sounds more alive"
Close your eyes and try again. Sounds exactly the same on neutral IEMs.
Feels like guitarists saying nicrocellulose finish sounds more open than polyurethane.
Naaah man the polish allows some more deeper end and sustain on it
@@skippyshadow7551 yeah
I don't agree. It's a very noticeable difference. Less so in the crash, but really audible when playing on the bow.
The guitar comparison isn't quite apples to apples. The body and neck of the guitar support the tone, but the strings and (if you have them) the electronics do most of the work. Cymbals are ideophones. Dirt build up is like guitar strings getting covered in gunk. Polishing cymbals usually also takes a thin layer of material from the cymbal. Usually makes the cymbal subtly more flexible, but also messes with the proportions of its profile slightly.
Sounds exactly the same
Sounds a lot brighter