THE BIGGEST JOKE IN METAL? WINTERSUN
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- Опубликовано: 17 апр 2022
- In this video I talk about - quite possibly - the biggest joke in Metal. Are Wintersun for real? Or are they just one big scam which is hell bent on ripping off the fanbase by any means necessary? Is Jari Maenpaa a musical genius or just a grifter? Watch the video to learn the story...
All the videos, songs, images, and graphics used in the video belong to their respective owners and I or this channel does not claim any right over them. 
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This video didn't age well.
I knew it from the beginning. It didn’t add up to me. I know that Jari is a perfectionist and wants to things his way without compromises. That’s why it took so long. And everyone started conspiracy theories. It’s so funny how that dude looks really stupid now. I hope he won’t delete his video. 😂😂😂😂😂
@@chrisking6695 Why would i delete it? He was always going to release Time 2 eventually. The issue was the length of time and the sheer amount of excuses he made to mix a heavy metal record. Just because he's finally releasing it doesn't excuse the 20 years of nonsense that preceded it.
@@MetalHealthTV and? All you people complaining could just go support other bands and call it a day. Jari doesn’t owe anyone anything nor is he holding a gun to anyone’s head. At the end of the day it’s his music and he can take however time he wants on it. It’s everyone’s individual choice to willingly pay and support the guy. It’s not a scam if you pay for a product and receive it. What he does with the money is his business whether you want to accept it or not. People complaining about the last crowdfunding just didn’t read the fine print. Sure, he could have been more clear about how much was taken from Finnish tax but it was stated where the money was going outside of the studio. He only got half of what they funded after tax. To be fair on his part, he still put money into new studio equipment. All you just love to find reasons to complain when you could avoid Jari and is music all together if you truly wanted to but for some reason you’re on here complaining for your own benefit of views. Nothing but a bunch of entitled cry babies.
@@MetalHealthTV disfruta del nuevo time 2 en hora buena!!! claro, tragándote tus palabras , pero disfrutando 🤣
@@leandroturca3882 debemos admitir que Jari Maenpaa transmite algo poderoso en sus canciones, me ponen la piel de gallina.
You don't get it. The money is for an actual time machine. Time 2 was done 200 years ago, when future Jari time traveled from 2033 to 1822, after reaching all the needed goals for his machine to be built. He visited the present day Jari telling him to gather money, but is now stuck with his super computer back in time with no electricity. It's the ultimate work of art. Watch Star Wreck. You'll get it.
🤣🤣🤣
Lol, this is gold.
Big brain
I think this video is quite unfair to Wintersun. I participated in the previous crowdfunding. He delivered what I pre-ordered - an album. Since when does making money/earning profit be something accusable?
There are bands who will live and sleep in the studio together during the music-making time. That's why they have bedrooms in the studio. I have zero problem with that. And I think it's absolutely fine to have a sauna in the studio because I think they deserve a better quality of life.
Milking the fan base? You sweet summer child. You are not an investor or shareholder of the brand Wintersun. You are a customer, ordering a product from them and they are using the profit to reinvest in something they want. Simple as that.
As of today, 12/01/2024, Time II has been announced as being finished. This video deserves a follow up review when the album is actually out!
And as of today, they are doing yet even more crowd funding 😂😂. You can't make this shit up
@@JoshMasonMusic Pre-order.
12/01/2024 has not arrived yet
@@10hourvgm4 Yes it has, just over a month ago. Just like OPs post. Are you American? Only Americans would be dumb enough to not know that there are different date formats. Hell, you're still adopting the metric system. Should've been done decades ago.
They release tomorrow
that legendary demo song was enough for me to get over it, man is a metal god I swear
Ridiculous amenities: kitchen, living room, sauna.
That's basic stuff in northern countries
In a recording studio.......
@@MetalHealthTV kitchen a living room room for sure, thats basic, and a sauna is barely an expense... If you see what it is, it's basically a broom closet with very high heat... Not a big expense
Time II is such a complex album that it's infinitely being released. It's actually a meta-textual experience about Time passing by. Every second of everyone's life is a new song.
Yeah Sure bro. i am a 100 procent certain it will release right after half life 3.
we already have gotten hints of both tho :))) @@IronWorkz
As John Cage as it fucking gets.
@@Poeticartifacts4 He’d certainly be impressed
it was just announced.
this chanel is the biggest joke in youtube
Jari is the George RR Martin of metal. He knows (through the legitimate quality of his past work plus PR he's done) that he's generated hype for his next big release that there's no way he can live up to, so he makes excuses and gives nothing but tiny blueballing samples while not putting out a completed work so he can postpone disappointment.
A 7/10 is good, but with the hype he's generated, he knows it's not enough and people will be disappointed and upset, so he plays these games to avoid putting anything out there. Time I was a really good release (I'd give it a solid 8/10), but a lot of people (myself included) were disappointed because it wasnt as good as the astronomical expectations that were set up for it. And he's continued to do nothing but continue to insist "Time II is coming, and it's going to be even better than Time I!"
Well said, I know what you mean. The wait hype and expectations for Time 2 have gotten way out of hand now and he knows this. So he's either stuck in a perpetual state of trying to "improve" what he's already done in a bid meet these expectations, or he'll continue to delay it further because he knows it's impossible to meet our expectations...
7:57 I Think Jari wants us to grasp the concept of "time" first before he publish the album
lol
It doesnt help if half the fanbase have died of old age before it gets released.
I hope that he release time II near in the future...coz time I was really heartwarming and hair-raising journey with "interstellarmetal" to the end of days...let us hope that he gets things done and saves his face by making eventually that song...better late, than never
lol ! That's a good one XD
If Wilderun can produce 3 dense, complex, and heavily produced records completely independently while touring, then there's no excuse for Jari
To be fair ... even though wildrun are great productions the quality from time is just on a different level of complexity.
9:09 Thanks @Metal Health for mentioning our album "Een Verloren Verhaal" together with the abundance of symphonic/orchestral metalbands that all seem to cope just fine with the current technology and ajustment constraints. We are ready to continue making epic music!
Thanks guys, loved your debut album and I'm excited to follow Vanaheim into the future!
It's a great album :) greetings from Germany
This didn’t age well..
Your mum didn't age well.
@@MetalHealthTV lol what a poser. Your video sucks and you've never done anything relevant in your life
Chill out lad, it's a joke@@jeeffsanders620
The joke is this vid 🤘😎
Good one
Here's the list of orchestral metal album quickly mentioned from 9:04:
Shadow of Intent - Elegy
Fleshgod Apocalypse - Agony
Lorna Shore - Immortal
Dimmu Borgir - Death Cult Armageddon
Devin Townsend Project - Deconstruction
Nightwish - Once
Epica - The Olographic Principle
Brymir - Wings of Fire
Carach Angren - Franckensteina Strataemontanus
Equilibrium - XX (single)
Sirenia - Riddle, Ruins & Relevations
Septicflesh - The Great Mass
Wizardthrone - Hypercube Necrodimensions
Vanaheim - Een Verloren Verhaal
Born of Osiris - Tomorrow We Die ∆live
...at least something to listen to while waiting for Time II
Good work mate!
Nightwish, Epica are pathetic exciuse for metal.
Wizardthrone is great, but its literally Bal Sagoth. Like, it is not in any shape or form complex or sonically intricate project. I can mix this shit in a sewer
Simply put, Jari's work is geniuienly retardedly complex.
The Great Mass is a good album. I would say Equilibrium's Mana is their best.
BOO album is also an electronic album at the same time which requires more ram to process. Back in Winter Madness time I would’ve never thought this is what Wintersun had become. Truly disappointed.
"Deconstruction" by DTP is the best Caotic Orchestal Metal album that i' ve heard in my life!
And how Devin recorded and mixed the album is a HUGE "punch in the face" of all excuses that Jari's used over the years to not realese "Time II".
There is even a whole podcast about that (The Devin Townsend Podcast)
one riff of Jary > all of you
When I saw this video in my feed I KNEW I had to write a comment (against my better knowledge of discussing the topic).
First off, thanks for mentioning my band Vanaheim, I see my band already wrote a comment (that was not me btw) and by typing all this (prepare for a long story, probably multiple comments) I just want to say every opinion expressed here is MINE and MINE only, my views and statements do not in ANY way reflect opinions in / of the band.
TLDR (kinda): Having run into every limit possible while writing / recording our debut album ‘Een Verloren Verhaal’ I can kind of feel where Jari is coming from BUT! We we’re limited by a budget (independent band funding everything ourselves) and knowledge making our work less efficient and working on a budget in a production like this comes with a HUGE list of hurdles you must go through. BUT having the amount of money donated to Wintersun I see absolutely NO reason WHY he could not work on these projects. (See my full comments of very technical details of how I analyse and dissect it). I can say with quite a lot of certainty that we had projects like Time I and we’ve managed (I really don’t know how tho) to deliver something from which I think tried to have the same end goal as Time I, an epic cinematic experience to lift the music to a more ‘Epic’ level. (Check out our Folkestral BONUS CD to listen to our full orchestrations) NO I don’t compare us in ANY way to TIME I that’s just impossible, TIME I is on a league that is imho almost impossible to reach.
Let’s start.
First off, I have mad respect for Jari. Like seriously. Jari to me is a musical genius, a once in a generation mastermind when it comes to composing and songwriting. Having listened to every single possible track, edition, and version of the Wintersun material (and even Ensiferum) I can have no other conclusion than that Jari is the Kevin Feige of the Marvel Universe (pre-Endgame). Next to being a monster composer he is also one of the more talented and skilled guitar players I’ve seen. Really… this guy is a serious monster on guitar but he just doesn’t always show it. I wish I could play like this guy for serious.
Second, I love the Wintersun self-title album, I love Time I and I love the Forest Seasons. To me, the Forest Seasons was such an amazing album, and it is by no means on par with the Time I production (programmed drums? minimal samples and layers) but that does not make it a less album. It’s just a bit rawer and I think the vision / scope of The Forest Seasons was always a lot smaller than Time I.
Third, What I’ve learned is that you are not allowed to judge someone without having all the facts. We know some things but by far not everything. I’ve seen what Mental health can do to someone in an album process and how difficult it can be to write, compose or even work on music when you have mental or physical blockers OR technological blockers.
These comments will be purely on the aspect of Jari / Wintersun and musical releases. Nothing personal to anyone in Wintersun (or outside of it).
Jari circlej3rk aside, I have a hard time understanding his current way of working and the way he has been communicating all this time. Having gone through all the possible hoops in our production of ‘Een Verloren Verhaal’ I cannot understand how someone that is so SKILLED as him and has the BUDGET that he has is not able to deliver something on par with TIME I.
Let me dive a bit deeper into the current knowledge I have when we worked on our debut album and how that reflects in my opinion of Jari his current situation.
Oh… I’ve seen the rodeo when we we’re finishing our debut album. Macbook crashing, overheating. Samples not loading. External hard drives dying because of overuse. Yes, we’ve seen all those beautiful things happen.
We started off on a simple macbook pro from 2012 which is our main driver. This was also the first time we tried to do something with such a huge scope and severely underestimated what technical capabilities you need if you want to program and sample a full orchestra + choir + synths + ethnic instruments. We quite quickly ran into technical limitations on his mainly driver but not only the macbook… we ran into the limitations of the Sampling Software we we’re using at the time (We’re probably just to stupid to understand the software, but that’s a part of the process). The sampler had a maximum amount of ‘voices’ (sounds) that it can play at one given time. I think something like 512 or 2046 or something and we we’re hitting that limit. At this moment we had everything in 1 big project (I think at that current stage we we’re only on 20% of what it would eventually become) and the project was already failing to load and our his macbook was already dying so we had to come with a solution. We talked with our producer (Joost van den Broek (Sandlane Studio), Epica / Powerwolf / BlindGuardian) and he advised us to split the different Orchestral sections (Strings / Brass / Woodwinds etc..) into separate projects. As soon as we’ve split them into separate projects everything was good! It worked again!! But then we ran into the following problem.
How do you write Brass when it’s in a sperate project and you are working on Strings?
Man, this was such a hurdle and for sure something that is difficult to work with. Every time you want to work on a different section you have to render/bounce the current state, import it, write, export it etc.. etc.. and highly inefficient.
This is just not a nice way of working. It gives a lot of loading time, a lot of bouncing time and in general it’s just not efficient so you really want to work in 1 big project.
Having found this out, we bought a NEW macbook for the band being able to have bigger projects and eventually merge everything into 1 big project. Well… that worked out well… NOT! At one point the new macbook was also running into limitations and we we’re back at point 1.
We’ve had to cope with this and eventually this is the way we worked until the very end. Having everything split into separate projects, this way we ran into ZERO, I repeat… ZERO limitations.
WHY am I telling you all this? Well Jari mentions in this video (Sons of Winter and Stars Project Demonstration Part 1) that he has hundreds of tracks, I think he mentions something like 1600 tracks. This is his MIXING project, so not the actual project that is real-time loading the samples. Jari works in such EXTREME detail with SO MANY tracks that probably 60% to 80% is not hearable (we found out the hard way). It really depends on what the focus of the mix is. A normal band (Vocals, Guitar, Bass, Drums) already have such a huge space in the frequency spectrum to then cram 1600 tracks of stuff in there it is literally an impossible mission. You can just not fit in so many details, sounds, frequencies in the spectrum. You have to put something more to the background, either the band or the samples / orchestral. Watch the video I mentioned above (ruclips.net/video/hl6CmmerR8c/видео.html) and then listen to Time I on CD / Spotify. In this video you hear SO MANY details you just don’t hear on the eventual end product. I do think they did an impressive job though on the mixing and mastering. You hear a lot, and I mean A LOT of details but still not all those 1600 tracks.
IF you want to work in 1 BIG project that is REAL-TIME sample loading and REAL-TIME processing on your MASTER BUS (Jari at one point released a video (I cannot find it anymore) where he was playing guitar and complaining about the delay / latency on his signal and the processed sound. From what I could see on his screen it was because he had a shit ton of processing on his master track, then IT’S LOGICAL YOU HAVE A DELAY !?) you HAVE to find ways to work around it. EVEN if you don’t run into limitations of your computer you will run into limitations of the sampler software. Most samplers have an X number of samples that can be played simultaneously by the same INSTANCE of the sampler. I work in Reaper (Jari I believe in Cubase from what I can see) and have not found out how I can have individual instances of the Sampler it always seems to share its instance on my VSTHost for some reason.
Is it a pain in the ass to work in different projects? Yes.
Is it a pain in the ass to have to export everything into different projects? Yes.
Is it a pain in the ass to have to export everything into mixing projects to balance orchestrals? Yes.
BUT…. I do understand and can feel HOW this can be a burden on your creativity and song writing. Seriously, working this way was very hard for us and it sometimes took away all our creativity. It created extreme amounts of frustrations to not just be able to adjust that small Woodwind part or add another small Brass accent…. No, you must close the project, open another project. Wait until all samples are loaded to then find out you didn’t import all the latest versions of your Section Projects…. FML.
WHAT we eventually found out was that we were just very inefficient. In this case we had for example 40 Staccato Cello tracks which had parts spread out over the entire song. But why 40!? It means the sampler loads 40 different instances of these instruments. We found out that we had so much empty space we could combine all those tracks to only 3 saving up processing, ram and power. But this is because this was our first album working like this. No help, no guidance, no experts to show us the way.
Jari is an expert in this. I just think he is stubborn.
It’s difficult to change your vision / scope if you are very set on delivering or writing something in a certain way. I think Jari does NOT want to take ANY compromise in his way of working and this is where imho the mental barrier comes in.
I truly believe that these technical limitations are an extreme burden on him as we’ve had these ourselves. We went insane, we literally cried behind the PC because we did NOT want to lessen our scope. We did NOT want to impair our vision of the album just because we couldn’t find a way to make it work and I think that’s where the crux of this story is. It’s really no fun at al to be confronted with these technical limitations if you have this beautiful picture in your head but you cannot translate it into your computer because it’s literally on fire. We probably could’ve solved A LOT by buying a very powerful pc or macbook but like stated before… we are a very small independent band doing this from their bedrooms. We are not a band signed to any label with a budgeting team or external parties who can help us, unlike Wintersun.
Imho the I think this one sentence is all that is needed to describe Jari: Not wanting / willing to compromise on your vision.
I don’t know the guy, I know nothing. I would LOVE to just sit down with him and talk about it. He is being shit on (understandable after a 0.5 mil crowdfund) by all the metal community and that also doesn’t help your willingness to compromise or to come up with new material.
I truly believe Jari is capable (still) of delivering something that is so extremely good it can go down in the history books but I think to reach this he has to compromise on his vision.
Sorry for my incoherent story.
Great comment, it's nice to hear a little insight into the technical side of the production process. Your project sounded like a monumental effort with very little tools and resources to help you along the way. But I'm glad you guys persevered, as finished product sounds incredible! Can't wait to hear more from Vanaheim.
VSL helps a lot with this issue with multiple cpu's.
Because of this comment now I want to listen to your band 😄
I adore Wintersun but you cant deny that the 5 last years after the realease of the Seasons album have been an utter embarrsement from Jari. He has the songs already done ffs! Just fucking record Storm, The Way of Fire, Silver Leaves etc. The fans that supported the bands crowfunding deserve it.
Spot on, mate. He should just send the Time 2 album off to Sonic Pump Studios and have them mix it, they mixed the S/T which is the best sounding Wintersun album by far.
Yes, this video was a fail.
Update: Time II is completed and on sale (preorder)!
On sale preorder ? Sounds like "we're almost there" but the "almost" is always there ... true story !
@@MrCroky123 Yeah, but preorder means the product is finished. This has been confirmed by the band. The album is done. Finally.
@@MrCroky123 its 100% finished. Actually, Jari is now working on other album and plans to finish it this year before going on tour.
That intro has to be one of the cringiest things I have ever seen, how do I block a channel from appearing in my suggested? LOL
Honestly I'm convinced it is pretty much an obsessive disorder at this point;
that is no offence,
everyone is sick from Time to Time whether physically or in spirit.
Being as perfectionist and simultaneously stubborn about how many fans he turned his back to...
yes, WintersunJari owes us to live up to his words. Think about it. We all put a lot of money in not to mention our loyalty which is bounded by Time still due to Death.
Who wants to die not releasing what great work he's done to share? Is it normal? His voice will fade more and more whilst looking for the perfect sauna for the 750k studio for which they've got more than half. Maybe adapt the studio as necessary or take the bloody wood and build it yourself, hell I would help even, like Viking ancestors could manage. _(Full aware that Finland is not Scandinavia but Swedish Viking influence present and Jari himself is not much Finno-Ugro)_
Stop the idolising and look at it the way it is.
You mean everyone is sick from Time II Time
@@Mr._Lister_The_Sister_Phister ;)
I agree so much. Wintersun inspired me to learn orchestral composition, their albums are still my favourite albums ever. The joy, inspiration and amazement I got from Jari's genius on those records is immeasurable and I can't thank him enough for making that stuff. But Jari's way of handling things is just wtf. It's almost like he hates music. He could make acoustic versions of songs, release concepts, demos, remasters, tutorials for mixing where we get snippets of stuff, remix newer songs in the style of the original album, make COVERS (like idk, he was featured on a powerwolf track recently...at least do that more), absolutely anything at all, but he chooses to do literally anything except music. And how he thinks this is good is beyond me. His facebook comments are nothing but hate and clowning on him, does he not read his own posts? And the processing power excuse is getting old. Maybe in the 00s it held water, there really wasn't much out there capable of handling that kind of project. But now, TONS of bands make orchestral metal like them on normal personal computers. Atavistia is a carbon copy of wintersun and it's done on a regular computer. Hell, I have mixed orchestral tracks with plugins and all on my laptop that was too shit to even run games I play at decent graphics. He has to be full of shit.
Its genuinely sad. Instead of being remembered as a legendary metal band that revolutionized the genre and wrote timeless masterpieces, they're going to go out as a bunch of pathetic, greedy clowns who scammed everyone out of their money. Does Jari really want a legacy like this?
Perfectly written 👍
Sinulta siis huijattiin rahat, etkä saanut rahoillesi yhtään mitään vastinetta? Eikö se olisi ahneutta jos he julkaisisivat keskeneräistä paskaa nopealla tahdilla? Taidetta on huono tehdä "pyssy ohimolla", se joko syntyy tai ei.
He is full of shit. You can write basically any music on a mid tier gaming PC these days.
Same, I've been able to go through and learn a bunch of things about midi and orchestrations in the time since Time 1. Definitely inspired me, but also set a good example of how not overthink shit too much (to the detriment of the projects)
This guy has officially become the George RR Martin of metal... lol. A tarnished legacy for sure
😆😆
Look at this dudes broccoli haircut
As a composer, I *somewhat* can understand the struggle of lack of inspiration and procrastination, but this is just ridiculous and it is nothing but excuses. It feels more like Jari just got a taste of what it feels like to earn money without working and doesn't wanna go back. Even if that is NOT the case, having such an ego that someone wants to control everything never leads to anything good.
...but ngl, I am tempted to make an album called Time III as a parody/poke on this whole fiasco.
As a serious Wintersun fan, and having IT expertise: the claim of hardware being bottleneck of an album release is only valid, if you are the only musician or computer literate in your village. Even if the number of tracks are beyond what top notch symphonic or prog metal gods are producing today, Jari could move the mixing application to cloud, utilize as many petaflops of CPU power, and bottomless memory on platform like AWS, Google Cloud, MS Azure, and run it as SaaS, and finish the freaking ever lagging production!
I have absolutely no idea what you're saying, but I agree with every word of it!
Yes for sure, with cloud computing it is possible. But also, even building a top end PC that could do all that, and even game on if he wanted, would only cost a few thousando dollars, which I'm sure he can afford. Hell, if it MUST be a mac, same thing. With the new M1 or M2 cpus should be more than enough.
@@MoonOvIce I guess that if he bought a 12gen i7, 64GB of RAM, even the cheapest video card, and a decent dedicated sound card, he'd be more than fine enough. Not sure what a Mac costs nowdays, but with all the components I've said, it might even be cheaper and more productive than a Mac. The guy is way over his head...
Jari could of bought a Ryzen Threadripper to finish the album. It's the lamest excuse ever. How is 64 cores and 128 threads not enough 🤣
"just scale it to the cloud bro"
It's truly sad to see them fall from where they were and having some of the best melo death tracks out there. I also, like others, stopped paying attention to any social media "updates". After years of nothing, and some podcasts that offer very little, it became a waste of energy to even care anymore.
Imagine pushing someone to do something, seeing that they don't, in fact, want to do it, and yet continue pressuring them and giving them money while you get nothing back. Jari's completely blundered the situation, and what he did with the funds is completely ridiculous and unprofessional, but the guy clearly either mentally cannot handle the situation or simply just does not want to do it. The fans have got to understand that and stop flushing their money down the toilet while simultaneously flaming Jari and the band. By all means keep complaining, but please stop funding literally nothing.
@Vigridr Do you have facts on what he did with the funds or are you basing it on rumor(s)?
Well honestly he has the sh*t already recorded, he could just release it and the fans would still be happy even if it wasn't mixed with the best gear in the world and with tons of layers, we all just desire to hear this album (aka use what he's already got and move on, but I guess getting money from crowdfunding is easier 🙄)
@Zombie Frogg i don't know, I don't look at Jari's social media because I eventually stopped caring lol
They directly asked their fans for money under the pretense of using it to make new music. No sympathy here.
I believe that the band is going nowhere nowadays. Not that they ever did, but as the years go by, it's getting more and more obvious. They haven't toured in 4 years and even thought the pandemic can be used as an excuse, the last tour they did was in 2018. Asim left the band, so did Jukka and now it's only Jari and Teemu. There have been no announcements for tours and I doubt that there will be another show or tour. The "update" they gave us a few months ago about 5 albums being made is nothing new. Jari has said even in interviews from 2011-2012 that he had material for 5 more albums and has already started pre-production for them. If they were serious, they would have at least started a new campaign but as it seems, this is getting nowhere as well. Lots of other metal bands have built their own studio. Gojira's singer built their HQ himself. I doubt that it cost him almost a million dollars. Trivium as well. Jari always says that other bands are bigger and thus can afford such things. But he always forgets that other bands are bigger, because they are more active. An inactive band cannot grow. Nothing happens without work and effort and Jari seems to ignore that. He has proven himself to be lazy and just expect everyone else to pay things for him. Do you think Nightwish would be where they are now, if Tuomas stopped after the 3rd album and did a crowdfunding? Of course not. Nightwish started of broke, like most bands, and they worked their asses off. Wintersun has never done that. They were never an active band, touring non stop and putting out albums. Thats how bands grow.
Couldn't agree more!
100% agree, I even get alittle annoyed when people used to slag off Trivium, those guys worked so hard to get where they are today, just like thousands of other good bands. The metal industry in general never gets the appreciation is deserves.
What about that shiiity soad? They goddamn suuck and not released from 2008 anything
I came here to gossip since I just not follow Wintersun anymore. I wasn't awared Jukka and Asim left, that is very bad
"Now it's Only Jari and Teemu". Even that didn't age well..
Do you know how hilarious it is to think that your own favourite band is a joke.
Seriously, the music itself and their talent is outstanding, but even a lot of the die-hard fans know that this is beyond a joke.
I feel the exact same way, mate! It's embarrassing to call them one of my favourite bands, and yet I continue to do so...😅
I really appreciate being able to finally have found an update after sooo long. For me, personally as a fan, I'd still buy Time II if it came out right now (I think?); but Jari's clear disregard for his audience is very disturbing. I was (and am!) a Kai Hahto fan more than anything; don't get me wrong I love Wintersun's music, but Kai was such a huge influence on me and in large part was his playing with Wintersun. Since he's gone I think I'm a lot more critical of Jari because I feel people are leaving the Wintersun Organization for the same reason we're all frustrated with him.
I play in a band, I have some small window into understanding these processes bands go through. Yes, producing an album that's been trapped in your head is a colossal task--any art typically is. But to simply assume that you can take HALF A MILLION DOLLARS from your fans and then not say anything for years is borderline delusional; actually insane. The sheer assumption that your fanbase will just, "always be there," to revel in your greatness is a joke that seems like it's about to backfire pretty hard. I mean what a gag if Time II comes out and its just not a big deal anymore--what if nobody gives a shit. Your arrogance will lose you your battle for what all bands covet most--your audience's attention.
What happens when the next comment wave reads, "Not going 2 Waste my Time on Time 2,". Food for thought.
I don't comment on things ever, so please be respectful. But I Love Wintersun, Wintersun opened wonderful doors into Finnish metal and beyond for me. I am so grateful to have found Wintersun when I did (as a young American I feel very lucky to listen to such diverse music). Wintersun inspired me to pick up drumming, to pursue music and so on, and all that's great, but I'm uncertain if even I could defend Jari if all 5 albums came out tomorrow morning... or even if Jari just came clean about whatever the problem is. I don't think he will. I don't want to say he doesn't care, I'm sure he does, but clearly whatever is ailing him and his creative process he simply isn't being honest about.
In any case, thank you for the update Metal Health for the content and the unbiased approach to evaluating this narrative. It's not easy and I feel your pain. If you learn anything new please pass it on!!
Still a great community of people, see you all in the comments!
While I hate to wait for Wintersun’s new music, I have to admit that out of all great symphonic metal albums out there( Nightwish, Luca Turilli’s Rhapsody, Epica, Dimmu Borgir, etc..) I couldn’t find a single album that sounds as good as Time 1. If you listen to isolated orchestration tracks, it is out of this world.
Dude, you've literally spoke from my heart. I've been a fan since the first album. I have all their albums, even donated in the fckn crowdfunding campaign. But this is just too much. Lots of other bands released amazing materials, while in the meatime, Jari started a patreon asking for more money. If this video doesn't make him finally release song nothing will. I'll share this everywhere.
Thanks man, yeah it pained me to say such things as I do love their music. But the band need calling out on all this bullshit.
you didn't donate, you bought a cd and other shit
While waiting for Time 2 to be released, I managed to graduate from junior high school, middle school, I proceed to look for a job now and I'll probably die before the album sees the light of a day. Either way, Wintersun music rocks 🤘🤣
Time 2 is the Duke Nukem Forever of Metal. Unless people stop buying their albums and going to their concerts, he'll have too steady of an income to be forced to work on music.
Time 2 is literally finished recording in 2006... It's supposedly 90% done mixing/mastering/editing I can't understand why this thing isn't released yet.
All of his excuses are questionable, and it seems to me more like he's afraid to release it.
He might be having a perfectionist/creative/middle age crisis going on IDK...
Bro, like I recorded some of my own music from 2017-2020, and some of those songs had 50+ tracks, sometimes a hundred or more. Not only did I never get paid a dime for my EPs, I never went begging for more. The only upgrade I made was 16g to 32gb of RAM, that I paid out of pocket for, AND I paid for a couple of my own EQ/Effects out of pocket.
The fact that Jari, after FIVE years can't put out a single ounce of music, just one song or two, tells me he's either trying to milk his fans, or he has other issues going on. I just don't understand how it can take so long.
In the time I've been a Wintersun fan (2015 onward) I started and finished college. I am also working now and put out some of my own music. Like, c'mon Jari, you promised albums faster, where's the music?
Just found your channel! As someone who really likes melo death, but is pretty selective and doesn't discover too much new music, I had never heard of Wintersun. I had to check them out after this and holy crap I love this. And at the same time a little pissed knowing the story.
Their new song "Storm" is probably one of the best songs ever made. But they first played it live 3 years ago and there STILL isn't an album version. And who knows if there ever will be. I have no doubt they are sitting on some amazing unreleased songs, but they really need to release something soon before they lose all their fans (and all the band members end up joining Nightwish)
Absolutely, I also think The Way of the Fire sounds amazing too, i first heard that song live about 7 years ago and it blew my mind. It's crazy that this track is still unreleased lol!
Ive never even heard of either of those two songs
The Way of the Fire has the best guitar solo I’ve ever heard in my life
@@MetalHealthTV The Way of the Fire is so damn good it almost brings me to tears with its epicness. And that's my impression from hearing shitty phone recordings of a concert. Don't know what Jari is thinking holding on to this material for so long. Makes him look like a fool. Just release a single or something ffs.
Silver* Storm, but yeah
Claiming to be full time band.
Meanwhile half of the band is touring with Nightwish XD
Sadly, truth in every word man. Wintersun self titled is on my top 3 metal albums of all time, Sons of Winter and Stars is my favorite song of all time, Jari used to be a huge inspiration for me and arguably one of the most talented musicians of the 21 century. So yeah, I was a huge fan of these guys and still listen to their stuff almost every day but it's simply PATHETIC what Jari and the band has become. It's really frustrating to see a legendary band with tremendous potential turn out to be podcasters and hd wallpapers sellers. Not even the live performances they released recently has a professional mix, I heard better sound quality in cellphone recordings than those "official live performances"
Like I said man, really frustrating to see that Jari basically got everything he needed and did absolutely nothing but lie and deceive his fans...
It's sad because the effect of Wintersun's music was immense in my teen years, but now it has lost its emotional value due to this nonsenseand disrespect for their fans
I feel bad for teemu though, he's such a good musician and guitarist... Feels like he's wasting away
Maybe now that Teemu's filling in with Megadeth, he'll decide to step away from Jari and find another band as well.
I mean, Kai and Jukka are already in Nightwish - I'm surprised Jari hasn't already used their touring schedule of the last couple of years as an excuse for why there's nothing new yet. I mean, I can see the social media post perfectly: "Oh, well, it's hard to record/rehearse/perform when my rhythm section's gone off with another band!"
@@MsCatstaffJari uses midi drums and bass and records all guitars and vocals himself, even in 2017 when Teemu and Jukka still were in the band they only contributed on additional vocals and the choir thing they did with a bunch of other vocalists so he can’t even use that as an excuse
Time II Is done now though 🎉
it's not done until we're listening to it
Yeah I don't know what to think anymore. I love this band and I can attest to how difficult it can be to mix even 20 high quality tracks depending on your technology and how deep perfectionism can effect a persons productivity (its happened in bands I've been in), but what the hell is he doing with all this Patreon money?! He should have more than enough to buy the equipment he needs or even freaken hire other engineers to help him with the mixing! Assuming for the sake of argument that this isn't a scam, Jari needs to let go of his perfectionist control freak nature and accept that his fans don't need his idea of perfection and are quite happy with even a stripped down Wintersun sound as long as its well written and composed which he's proven he can do at extraordinary levels.
I think it's got to the point now where Jari is fully aware that what he's got won't match up to the hype he's given it, and he's thrown himself into a situation of immense pressure where he needs to release something that lives up to the diamond standard he's put it at, taking more time still, and the cycle repeats. Either admit defeat and release things the same way as everyone else, or let it all continue until there's nothing left of your legacy but empty promises, and all the fans have given up.
Great point well made! So true.
Dude literally signs his name over and it just comes off as super narcissistic. You just know he hyped the Time album up too much and knows that he can't create anything to the standard he wants the world to believe he can achieve. It's what children do to make other children believe they're cool, lie and self aggrandize.
Wintersun at this point is like if Necrophagist continued but instead of doing anything they just troll you and ask for money. I have a more respect for Mohammad at least he just straight up ended the band and didn't take the piss out of his fans!
I really can't understand what are Jari's plans in the end with all of this, but I know for sure that he tainted Wintersun legacy with scamming negativity for nothing and he will actually lose ALL of his fans and eventualy money. It's a shame that when I discovered this band a year ago, I was beyond impressed, but when I found out about all this scamming bullshit, I am dissapointed that this band is wasting its massive talent for real.
I've followed the entire Wintersun saga online over the years. It's hilarious how much people can bank on public goodwill. Time II is now the Chinese Democracy of metal. And if it ever comes out, I feel that just like CD, no one will care much because time will have passed it by. If we had gotten CD within a few years of the Use Your Illusion albums, GnR would be flying high. As it was, we got it over a decade later and the only ones who listened were the diehards. Similarly, if and when Time II comes out, no one will care. 200 tracks? Nightwish, Devin Townsend, and Therion, among many others, stack up around 600 tracks in one recording. Time II could've been a biggie if Jari ever bothered to release it on time. I don't know if it's a lack of focus or procrastination, or the weight of perfectionism stopping him, but it feels like he'll never release it. As others said, I think he's realised the hype build up is too much and it's better to never let it see the light of day. In the meantime, he keeps making excuses of why he can't work and putting out loads of random shit that no one cares about. His social media now looks more like a gear review channel than a band channel. Personally, I hope he never releases it so that I can keep enjoying the soap opera 😂
Well, "Time II" is finished as of today, it seems
What??
This band has made money most dreams would only dream of, yet has very little music to show. I've accepted that new Wintersun music is a matter of if, not when.
Time II could be the best album ever created and it will still fall short to nobody's fault but Wintersun's. Sorry to anyone that got scammed by Jari and his delusions of perfectionism.
First album was a masterpiece
Wintersun self-titled will always be one of my island records, but I've pretty much given up caring for the future of Wintersun at this point.
I think at this point the fanbase will only forgive him if he comes completely clean about everything. So if he admits he wasted the money, explains that living up to all the hype caused immense pressure on him, gives an explanation as to why he can't get anything done (gaming or gambling addiction, alcoholism/drugs, ADHD, procrastination, perfectionism, mental health issues or just fell out of love with music etc.). Then just hand over all the recordings he's done to a decent producer and mix engineer and then all he has to do is just record any bits which aren't finished. It's clearly not a skill issue, he's just not focused on music at all. His mind is elsewhere; it seems like he is only dabbling with music at this point.
Well, he did. Are you happy now? Surprise to no-one, massive portition of the donations went right into taxation as it is stypidly high here in Finland. Rest plus lot of his own money went into the studio.
Now the new album is coming out.
And here we are today. Time II will finally be released along with a new mix and master of Time I, a remaster of The Forest Seasons, and 5 demo albums of never before heard early Wintersun music. Also, one of the other four albums that they're working on is close to completion, and judging by the lack of touring to support the release of Time II, I can only assume that this new album could be completed and released as early as next year.
I'm not here to defend or attack Jari. I've personally been waiting 12 years for Time II. I'm just glad that new Wintersun music is being released and the wheels seem to be rolling again. Wintersun have my support 🤘🏼
Honestly, Kai and Jukka should consider themselves very lucky because Nightwish gave them a chance to escape. They are now permanent band members and I hope they'll ditch Wintersun for good.
Now Jari is releasing guitar commercials swearing that they are just songs he wrote because those guitars "inspired" him so much. It's just ridiculous.
Also, not a single word about or from the supposed other band's members
He's the gift that keeps on giving.....
Even as a huge Wintersun fan, your are 100% right, and that's the real shame. It's got to be frustrating for the other members. At least Teemu and Rolf are in Smackbound, Jukka is in Nightwish, and I'm sure Asim has some side projects too, IF he actually wants to make music. Honestly, after seeing a clip of him doing The Islander, Nightwish should think about snagging him to do some of Marko's parts lol.
@Lucas Correa The Circle I think, they had an album coming out last year or so
Based on the latest updates, this video: L
I love their Wintersun and Time albums, have been listening to them since 2006 or 2007, can't remember. I have a few memory problems but I remember unfollowing the band's page somewhere around 2020. Never listened to their forest seasons album either... I had no idea of how big the pile of bullshit was. Wow... That's kind of messed up. Thank you for the video, I love your accent! :D
Perhaps the real Time 2 was the time we waited along the way?
I feel nothing but sadness now.
Listening Wintersun for the first time was one of the most shocking moments in my music experience.
Found them out in 2018, Forest seasons had just came out (in 2017), everyone was hyped (so was I), the band was alive, did tours and etc.
But, as time passed by, the band just started to slowly disappear from the radar. Less updates, Kai joined Nightwish (then Jukka), even most loyal fans started to complain. Have completely lost interest in them about two years ago (I am more into metalcore scene right now), but sometimes play a couple of their tracks to get that feeling of nostalgia.
Do not have any hope for new material from Wintersun, but their 2,5 albums are forever in my playlist.
Sadness and Hate?
I can't believe it's been ten years since Time 1, but he did manage to release it, so what I don't get is how the second half could possibly be so much more demanding.
Yeah that's the thing, they've even played some of the new songs live already...
Time II pre-order started two days ago..So what now?
Sorry to be the smartass here, but... You either order it or you don't. On a more serious note though, I didn't have huge expectations for this band anymore, but the pre-order package seems to be really nice, and the sound clips are great. I never got the accusations for scamming, but the communication from the band was pretty poor after the Forest package episode, which led to a lot of questions and even hate, but it seems that the tide has turned, for the most part at least.
@@I_L2878 the physical copy will be available as always through the label, you don't need to pre-order this..but the video is taking a strong position of accusation I would expect at least some excuses
The situation is more than ridiculous. What puzzles me is how he is still somehow tied to Nuclear Blast. I'm surprised the label didn't cut any connection to the band years ago.
I was starting to wonder what the hell you were chatting when I first started watching this video, because having only discovered Wintersun recently (in the scheme of things), and I actually have the Time 1 album, with the Time track now being a firm favourite of mine, I really wasn't sure what you were talking about. But then I realised that I actually don't know anything about Yari other than he is a ridiculously good musician and a shockingly fantastic guitarist. I actually had to look into what you were saying about him , and the Time album, and only then realised what you've said is quite right. Sadly there is no defense or argument for it. He promised us an album, and we still don't have it, with seemingly no reason at all. What the actual fcuk! Thank you for enlightening me! Love your videos by the way - new subscriber.
Thanks a lot man! Yeah it's a sad state of affairs with Wintersun. I've never known any band kick up such a fuss over producing 1 album.
Dude!...i love the way you talk and present...a new subscriber!
I actually feel kinda bad for them music is free now. Imagine working your entire life perfecting a skill, and then the record sales industry goes to 0, now youre sitting there like, fuck... well that sucked, now what? im 35/40 years old now, Guess ill give construction a try? I mean come on. They deserve every penny of they get. I wanted to be a musician but I am glad I got our when I did before the absolute collapse of the industry. Now I just play guitar, but to be on the level of wintersun, my guitar playing, my song writing, riffs, rhythems, ect. would have to be 10,000x better and Ive already spent thousands of hours. If you dont want to donate then dont donate, and if you do donate, dont expect to be repaid in any capacity. spend it on some skilless rich girl who woke up one day and spreads her ass on onlyfans.
The new album will be out mid 2023.
Creativity is not as easy as most people could think of. This takes time to create what you really want. Sometimes it comes faster sometimes slower. Common practice to give some breathing time for the creative process, otherwise you'll just create whatever and us fans will be just disappointed for the outcome. Too long is still too long and frustrating to wait. What comes to the computer, this is a pretty common problem amongst studio producers, but there are some tricks you can ease the CPU usage. Not really an excuse, but not really easy to blame that either anymore, since the computers are pretty damn powerful nowadays.
I don't know why Nuclear Blast hasn't dropped them. The crowdfunding and Patreon is a giant spit in the face of all the money THEY gave them. Everybody forgets that they also have shoveled at the very least thousands of dollars, considering they are one of the (if not THE) biggest label in the genre. If I ran Nuclear Blast, they would have been dropped before The Forest Seasons came out. Pathetic. Its starting to make NB look bad by allowing them to keep taking money from their fans with very little to show in return.
Napalm Records is taking away their title.
I came across their music on youtube about a year ago and have been listening to it wondering why they haven't released another album since they're so amazing. It's sad to see that this is why they're inactive, truly disappointing
My niqqa, go blast some Atavistia, it replaced wintersun for me.
Ensiferum were right to fire his ass. They are great and productive without him, and we get an extra album from Jari every decade. Win-win situation.
I really loved Wintersun back in 2006 onward. I got inspired to start composing music and investing in a decent macbook pro when I had the money in 2014 (I still use that mac tho)
I payed for that crowdfunding in a moment I wasn't in a very stable economic situation but then the years went by and I started to see Jari's true colors. Im not interested in his music anymore and when I decided to let it go I realized I was missing a lot of other music that is way less pretentious production-wise and my tastes changed over the years as well. As a crowdfunder I was angry for not receiving updates in years about the state of that studio but I just don't care anymore. I unfollowed Wintersun and him from fb but from time to time I return to the comment section just because sometimes I enjoy it very much. Cheers people of the internet.
Definitely agree, although its good they finally released Time II. No reason it should have taken as long as it did though. Yaris perfectionism has hindered the bands success
Take it easy bro, thank God this video was created a year ago, but now Jari has created Time 2 and refreshed his old songs. I can't wait to hear the remaster of Fly into the sky or When the rain ends not forgetting the new songs, obviously. Jari never dissapoints considering all the time we must wait for his appearings because his music is in another level.
I'll always love Jari and the original self-titled album but I totally gave up waiting on Time like 2 years after they announced it.
I have seen no one point out how (naughty r-word) it is that Jari thinks that he needs over 200 tracks (MIDI or otherwise) for ANYTHING. You don't need to be an experienced musician or composer to know that layering so many tracks eventually becomes redundant and bloated. So much metal music already overloads the mix, yet Jari thinks using over 200 tracks is going to improve his music? He should perhaps go back to the minimalist approach from the self titled, by that I mean that it doesn't need to have the most epic and ambitious tracking and composition to be a timeless record, let the music speak for itself and succeed on its own.
Why is every comment 8000 words long
🤣🤣 That's how frustrated we all are!!
@@MetalHealthTV that's fair I guess haha. I only got into them last year so your video was very educational, ta 👍🏻
@@euanharrison7125 Thanks man!
I'd pirate time ii if it ever came out. I'll never give another penny to this band. at the same time, listening to a new album would be supporting them and I'm not interested in that either..
As someone that absolutely loves Wintersun’s music and is a musician with a solo project, I still find it pathetic that I managed to get 3 albums done in 8 years, compared to Wintersun only putting out 3 albums in almost 20 years.
Let's be honest. It's two albums and an EP. It's not even three.
List of albums that fly by at 9:00 in the video:
Vanaheim - een verloren verhaal
Devin townsend project - deconstruction
Brymir - wings of fire
Born of osiris - tomorrow we die alive
Shadow of intent - elegy
Fleshgod apocalypse - agony
Lorna shore - immortal
Dimmu borgir - death cult armageddon
nightwish - once
Epica - the holographic principle
Carach angren - ???
equilibrium - xx (single)
Sirenia - riddles and revelations
Septicflesh - the great mass
Wizardthrone - hypercube necrodimensions
Good work!
I think there will be a Netflix doc about this studio crowd fund scam
the first wintersun album will always remain the best from composition and sound quality. All the other albums dont come close.
True
I just want to hear The Way of Fire in good quality before I die
Completely agree, mate! But I'm actually starting to lean more towards us never getting to hear it.... He recently stated something along the lines of having not worked upon Time 2 since 2014.
As good as the 3 albums are, the first one is their best. So to me, each album is going downhill. Debut>Time>The Forest Gump Seasons. I enjoyed each album less and less. I also lost interest when Jari stopped playing guitar live. I'm still on their Facebook page just to read the comments. That's how I found this video.
I went back and watched the 2017 crowdfunding video. I forgot Jari said it was "all or nothing". Guarantee if he only made 200k of the 250k needed he would've just taken it and ran.
Deathly curious what you think given the most recent news lol
Very nice video man, I hope more folks find your content!!
At this point I blame us the fans. Stop supporting this Jari. It’s not good for him. It’s not good for us. Just move on.
Honestly, the forest seasons was dog shit anyway lol
Sums it up very well. It's just so sad that what they have released is so phenomenal. Such a strange contradiction. Great shirt, by the way!
Time I is a genuine masterpiece. I've been listening for years and almost every listen, you hear something new.
listening to 3 songs for years?
@@blindg7092 *5 song yes, just like everybody else does who are fans of music.
@@foofy14 3 songs. Not 5.
@@blindg7092 The tracklisting is as follows;
1. When Time Fades Away
2. Sons of Winter and Stars
3. Land of Snow and Sorrow
4. Darkness and Frost
5. Time
I'm not sure if you can count, but as I've just demonstrated, that is 5 songs, unless you're for some reason choosing not class the intro or interlude which doesn't make any sense as they're also pieces of music.
But yes, I've enjoyed those 5 songs for years and continue to do so :)
@@foofy14 5 tracks. But 3 songs. Instrumentals make absolutely no sense to.me. Especially when the following song already has a long enough intro.
Used to be me favorite band back in 2014-2015. Now I couldn’t care any less 😂
People will have to donate 500.000€ to Winterscam in order to release just a 2 minutes track, and "working" on it
Wintersun: Time 2 is the Half Life 3 of the metal scene. ^^
To update on this Jari announces some news yesterday let's see what time II have to offer
Really enjoying your content. Thanks for the efforts,
Who else is here after Jari threw the TIME bomb? Lol