I don't think you've played much D&D then. DMs regularly come up with contrived sidequests and other things to do, reasons to wander around and explore. The classic "There's a cave just off the side of your path to the next town, do you explore it?" The Wonderlands Oneshots are named for what they exactly are, tabletop oneshots that are meant to be played in 1 or 2 sessions.
@@marcopolo8584 no excuse for how much they charged for it. Plenty of other titles delayed or released a finished game instead of half assing it and charging full price.
Wonderlands is my favourite out of all of them by such a large margin because of how much fun it is to play but it feels like gearbox refuses to learn from all their mistakes and successes at the same time. Its like they're allergic to it
100% agree about the guns. In trying to differentiate WL from BL, Gearbox ended up making the guns less fun. It’s really quite stark going back to BL3 to see how good the guns feel there (though tbf they absolutely nailed guns in BL3). This is probably my number one complainant with WL. I love what they did with spells and melee, but especially when leveling, gun builds just aren’t as satisfying to play.
I loved the game when was going through the story. Once I got to endgame, it felt like there were only a couple viable play options with incredibly strict gear requirements - and those were constantly being changed with wild nerf/buff swings. Whenever I finally started to feel like I was progressing, the build was either nerfed or 20+ chaos levels were added. I was burned out and playing other games before the DLCs dropped.
I will say what I think is good about chaos caps is they are opt in. A level cap is not, ie if they increase the level cap, by simply playing what you enjoy you'll level up, outscale your loot and you'll be forced to re-grind. But with the chaos system, if you're just getting comfy with chaos 20, and they add Chaos 35, cool, can just ignore it and keep doing your thing at 20 and its like 35 doesn't exist. So no downside to them adding the extra levels at all.
@@LazyData I agree on the opt-in aspect, but how many people kept playing the game when they were 20+ chaos levels down, gear drops were trash, and Dry'l was unbeatable unless they used one of a handful of specific builds with strict gear requirements? Gearbox waited far too long to address any of that and the players, including me, left. Your point about this being a game for endgame grind sort of players was dead on. Wonderlands embraced and really did well at bringing MMO raid-style dance-or-die mechanical difficulty to the series. Much like with MMOs, though, the audience for that was a tiny fraction of the player base. A shame, really. The gameplay was amazing - best in the IP to date.
@@LazyData I respect your view but for me this is a prety weak argument , say like " keep doing your thing at 20 and its like 35 doesn't exist" is like say "no progression for you sorry" no one pay 70 bucks on game for that is just bad design
@@leonardonascimentosilva4236 You do get progression though. The tier system in this game didn't separate items by levels anymore. You can get the max tiers stuff at not the max level. That's like saying Doom having an ultra nightmare is stopping you from progressing because you enjoy normal mode. It's just a difficulty slider. Also to the original point. If you're playing the game and trying to get to chaos 20. They can then either not add anything, or add 35. The addititon of 35 doesn't affect the climb to 20 in anyway. And has no impact on the game at that level. There is no downside. That's the point im trying to convey. It just gives people who have already done the grind more to do if they want to.
@@leonardonascimentosilva4236 unfortunately, your argument lends itself to "I payed money so I should be able to beat all the content at every difficulty". There has to be a place for hardcore players to have a hardcore challenge. Sorry if that makes it inaccessible to some. Lazys point is good, I think, in that this doesn't gate actual content, just the difficulty level. It's it perfect? No. But it's better than a story dlc or raid added being too hard so people don't get any chance to play it or get the new gear. This system allows you to play every piece of content while allowing for selectable difficulty. It's not shameful to decide you don't want to play at Max chaos and prefer the feel of 20. That's the point of it. You still get to go everywhere on the map and kill all the various mobs.
The off-ness with the guns definitely was a factor with the magic barreled ones, they all feel like "damage over projectile speed", even the good ones like the Crossblade and the White Rider still feel kinda slow and clunky and need a lot of working around to get used to. I think they really should have done a bit more variation with them if they wanted them to feel distinct but also usable. For the endgame I did kind of feel like relegating the better boss drops to the Chaos Chamber took away some of the impetus to actually go back through the world, which is a shame given all the quality they put into the maps.
i was really on fence about wonderlands, cause im not a high fantasy/DnD kind of guy, but youve really sold me. everything looks so flashy and snappy, it's good to hear builds actually have diversity and viability
It's a really fun game. But, the endgame is disappointing. From what I recall, either 2k or Gearbox didn't have faith in the experiment. When fans actually enjoyed it, they didn't realize how to pivot and capitalize on the fan response to WL. Instead just... Putting out small weekly support instead of a real campaign expansion.
your point on gunplay is really spot-on because i noticed this since my first playthrough a year ago. wonderlands gunplay feels weirdly less enjoyable than bl3 even though technically both are using the same gunplay system and i could never put my hands on to why thats the case. also wonderlands enemies use a lot of projectile throwing instead of bullets and it really shows the aweful pin-point ai accurate throws they do where they'll throw it perfectly were you are going and you need to zig-zag and change direction right after they throw it but before it hit you, and its really hard to do that when you're in a room with 20+ enemies doing this thing over and over
started this game a week ago with my girlfriend and we were both addicted. had the best time. even loved the chaos chamber (boss runs) finding good end game info online though was so hard because we would grind for gear that turned out to be nerfed over and over again. i wish the dice grind and chaos lv 100 grind were atleast 50% quicker, overworld bosses had better loot luck and that you could grind chaos levels in the boss run mode. those regular chaos chambers hunting down a couple enemies at a time before more spawn in is annoying. overall though still my fav borderlands game since 2.
Decided to come back to this title and honestly all this game needed was one final general buff to a few gun types and a NG+ Sure the mirrors were a scam but we all learned a lesson from it. Overall u can still enjoy a few casual hours innit. The secret raids are at least doable and engaging. Also hopefully they never bring back the increasing rerolling cost, cause that shit was absolutely fucking stupid.
@@LazyData I’d increase the moon orb cap more. I get why it’s there, but you can go through 16K so quickly when you’re just trying to get that one specific enchantment.
I really loved this game but the chaos levels and dlc re doing them just put me off the game so much sadly if it wasnt so dreadful it would be in my top 3 i love the classes so much and area designs and cool charaters monsters
For Wonderlands music I always turn the sfx and dialogue down a bit and boost the music. Makes it a lot more fun to play. While Joshua Carro is new to the Borderlands games I think he brought something new and refreshing to the soundtrack. I also love having the full soundtrack as ambient music while I'm doing work or chores around the house😅
Allow me to farm a massive amount of downvotes by saying this: "Wonderlands showed me what I already suspected from BL3, that Tiny Tina has run her course and needs to go away." Also, "Anthony Burch was the magic man; you won't see another GOOD ~lands game without addressing the lack of a worthy successor to him." BL3's story was, at best, "not great". Wonderlands? Same. TPS did some good stuff (Like you say though, a good story didn't play so well because the pace was off) but A. that wasn't GBX developing it and B. that studio's gone anyhow. Glad you're still around and doing your content. I look forward to more from you as BL4 approaches.
I agree on the Tina front. Though her part in WL was done well in my opinion and they used the character well. But ye, the whole B Team in BL3 felt shoehorned in.
I've not touched wonderlands since chaos 100 was announced. I just Cba grinding 50 more trials to get to max difficulty whilst also having a day job. Also the fact that I have to do that for every character is just demoralising. I loved how I can just crank mayhem to 11, but also enjoyed getting to OP8 in BL2. So if they can make Chaos levels go up 10 at a time for each trial, then that would fix a lot of my issues with the game. Also a very low-key PC pain was that I can't copy/paste my own save files to get multiple characters - I used to love having 40-50 characters - each having its own unique build. Can't do that in Wonderlands. So yeah unless they make it so Chaos levels go up in 10s all the time I'm just gonna wait for a save editor and after getting one to 100 legit, save-edit all other endgame characters to 100
I agree. The climb to get a character to a state of max progression is much faster AND more accessible to those with less time, the climb to max difficulty is not. I feel that.
I honestly think an entire section should've been dedicated to overall balancing. Wonderlands' balancing is so laughably bad that you genuinely can't build the exact archetypes that the game fucking lays out for you with tons and tons of obvious support, and succeed. You have to abuse, abuse, abuse. One nerf down, onto the next abuse case until gearbox gets bored. Class balance is an absolute nightmare in and of itself. My favorite example is after an entire year of buff after buff, the clawbringer capstone is still completely and utterly useless. Honestly, the main overarching problem with the balance in wonderlands was, and still is, that builds don't just follow a straight progression and work how you'd think. Everything is in spikes. All it takes is discovering one interaction between multiplier types or getting ONE item to catapult you from struggling to breezing through with little more to min max. The constant struggling in early chaos chamber because your build sucks too much to actually target farm the boss you want to to get an item to make your build not feel like shit, feels HORRIBLE.
No I'm afraid the issue was your approach. Nothing was ever nerfed into unusability. If you struggled with something after, there were other improvements to your setup you could make. There's no rocket science or abuse in making sure your enchants can be triggered by your build and making sure you amulet and main damage source are the same element etc.
I feel like Wonderlands did a lot well, but at the same time they made some big mistakes. For one I think that loot luck has too much to do with dedicated drop rates. If drop rates went from maybe 10% total to 30% total (considering how crowded sources are, and how much RNG is on armor) instead of 0 to 10ish% it would be a lot better. Another thing i wish was different is the loot enemies. I think most of them taking damage from melee only left some people feeling boxed into playing melee. I know I did. Finally I wish that there was a way to just fight the non story bosses. The featured run is the best way to fight the raid bosses, but as of typing this week's featured run is the gigachamber. I like the gigachamber, but not when I want to fight the raid bosses. I really wish they were their own runs. But apart from that, I've had my ups and downs with the game, but I'm at a point where I can look on it fondly.
Yeah, I remember realising a loot enemy is only damaged by melee. Then finding out my character's melee damage is so garbage that it took me literal minutes inside the chaos chamber to kill one. It was not a good day. Also I honestly agree with your analysis on loot luck. It was super important to get loot luck, but you hardly felt rewarded for doing so. Especially when you had to factor in natural gun part RNG, not to mention the chaos tiers for items.
Personally I find the drop rates perfect. The lack of guns worth grinding for them was my problem. Most of the guns in the game for me personally wasn’t that fun to shoot for the exact reason the guy said in the video. They had one or more things holding them back which made it bittersweet when getting drops.
Story DLC doesn't mean you can't have replayability. Pete's Bar, Magic Slaughter, Mutator Arena, Raid Bosses and even just great maps bring so much do a story DLC after it is complete. But what a story DLC does is it adds alot of depth to subsequent playthroughs (which I think was another missed opportunity for Wonderlands, its campaign was short and sweet and perfect for repeated playthroughs). Like though I didn't love BL3's main campaign, I adore Guns, Love and Tentacles and Handsome Jackpot, and would playthrough new characters just to experience those DLCs again. Wonderlands lack of story DLC in a D&D style game is just a little unfortunate.
Hi Lazy, I know it's not wonderlands related but I can't find anyone else online that figured this out. Flak can break immune phases with Torgue stickies. I've done it to Tyrene since launch and it still works at mayhem 11. I know it was me being selfish but I just didn't want it patched due to farming. Set up is using a bangstick (the higher pellets the better) or redline. You can use the unforgiven obviously for crit damage. For Tyrene just empty most of the mag, then switch weapon on the eye up top. Not her body and she's dead 100% of the time.
Your point about the constant forward movement from brighthoof to the Fearamid is great. That was great for the story, but what made the dragonlord such a good villain? I keep asking people this question and it's never answered. He felt completely wasted to me and didn't seem like he had much involvement at all. I'd love to know what you liked about him
Same principles as Jack really. Great dialogue, understandable motive. Wasn't annoying. Felt believable and fit into the world of the game. Take the twins for example, i liked them, esp Troy, but to me that influencer personality didn't belong in a borderlands game. Dragon lord goes. I especially like his arc of going from tinas first character and becoming a villain. Because he was her character during her campaign with Roland, she walked out on that run, and never got to play with Roland again. That's traumatic for her, so the dragon lord manifesting in her head as a villain is right on. As for involvement. Had more direct involvement to the player character than Jack. But less than the Twins, something the Twins did well on.
I personally found myself not enjoying many of the red text guns in this game. It felt like too many guns were balanced by having huge ammo consumption + a big fire rate making them super ammo inefficient and that just made me not want to use them, and with how few reload speed boosts there are across the various classes it just felt like I was reloading more often than I was shooting.
While I agree, the chaos chambers are an awesome endgame activity, it should have been the activity you‘re getting ready for, the place where your build can show what it’s capable of, not the place you grind mindlessly to get your build together. I burned myself out on these way too quick and then the first plc dropped… and I the game one day later. The first playthrough was awesome and most of the things the game offers are awesome as well. There are however many obvious issues that shouldn‘t have made it into the game on release. It feels like they only did briefly test it for bugs and the sort but never actually had someone play it like a player would. Lucky dice are one example. The lack of endgame options to farm stuff as well. Especially since BL3 had the exact same mistake. And then there was the liquid cooling, it was the gun to look out for and right as most people finally had it they nerfed it. Making most of that farming basically wasted. Huge damper for the motivation of many. And apparently they knew before release that it had to be nerfed. Either way, I got my money worth in the game and the time I spent in it was a good time. I really wish this time they learn from their mistakes and both BL4 and WL2 don‘t repeat them. I‘m really looking forward to both
The base game was actually fantastic. If they'd done decent DLC and support, a lot of people would still be playing the game now. Overworld, character creation, multiclassing, hero points, spells and melee weapons were all very welcome additions. I really appreciate status effects being more powerful too. I defended this game for a long time, hoping they'd add story DLCs and some kind of Takedown-style gameplay... but it never came. Now, I'm burnt out on their games and feeling cheated. I'm not sure I'll buy BL4. On the subject of DLC, I don't count additional runs as extra time. Only the boss changes so maybe you can have the 15-20 minutes of the run plus another minute each for the slightly altered boss (if that). Your criticism of the BL3 DLCs could have been solved by adding some form of endgame to each one (as BL2 and TPS had). Even if they just made invincible versions of each of the bosses with higher quality gear, it would have been something.
Wonder why they didn't do anything with the slam. In BL3 there's multiple viable endgame builds that just use slam. For those that don't know, use Flak or Amara, hold the GA or Unforgiven and slam with the spark plug or Hot Drop. Use phasecast(amara) or Rakks(flak) and then slam. Slamming procs Groundbreaker. Amara is really good with the Ice Spiker since it's action skill damage. Zane can use the Spark plug as well. I know this isn't a BL3 video but I'd thought I'd share some a different playstyle for BL3
Hey lazy. Surprised you didn't mention anything about the inventory UI. IMO, this and BL3 have some of the worst inventory UI's in modern games. I hope they overhaul it completely for the next lands game
A very well thought out video. Thanks for genuinely trying to praise and criticize when each was warranted. It’s rare to see any actual sort of analysis when reviewing games.
BL3 support was cut off because they wanted to do Wonderlands, and they didn't give Wonderlands that much support either and cut it way too early. BL3 had 1-2 minimum, 2-3 years max worth of extra content and 2-3 more playable VH's I'm sure of it if we didn't have Wonderlands. Therefore, WL will always leave a sour taste in my mouth. Sorry Gearbox, you fucked up this one badly.
I don't think its fair to say BL3 support was cut off, at all. The game is fucking massive, not just for BL standards but for video game standards in general. We got so fucking much. Also GBX were hirinig for BL4 before WL came out. So I'd suggest that after 3 years they simply "moved on". Not many AAA games get half that. Even a monster like Elden Ring is drier than BL3 was.
Agree with your assessment, I still really enjoy this game. I remind myself the story is from the perspective of a 13 year old running a roleplaying game. I think back to the campaigns I ran at that age and can't find any fault in the story or premise. A couple of things I would like to see going forward with BL/WL franchise: 1. Loot filtering. Allow me to set certain kinds of loot that will convert to gold/money when they drop (cosmetics I have already unlocked, common quality, etc) 2. Salvaging and crafting system
@@LazyData Another thing I like is when you feel like doing an allegiance run or a gun type run, or restricting yourself in challenging ways, the abilities and melee system help you get to the point where some manufacturers start to drop.
for me, the story experience is fantastic. Probably my favorite lands game for a playthrough. The spells, melee, and guns all felt crisp to use. Guns were just weird levels of effectiveness, never felt the need to use a sniper/launcher, or any of the blackpowder weapons. Probably didnt help the fact that i kept finding purple lewdites (this gun is truly insane) and swordsplosion from code. I tried other stuff and they were just worse so didnt bother. Max level 40 is good because it forces you to actually make choices unlike 80 in BL2 or 72 in BL3 where you just basically get everything. Endgame to me was completely boring, I only got to Chaos 20 for the achievement (used the same gear the entire way), after that i had zero desire to do them anymore and get higher. Half the time i'm running around the map trying to find the one enemy and wait for another to respawn. I really enjoyed BL3 endgame content but wonderlands didnt click with me at all. so outside of story runs it just had little replay value for me. Bought the game on sale for $30, sold it the next week for $25. Glad i got to enjoy it for a playthrough, and glad people enjoy it.
They since improved rate in the chambers to make them for active, but yeah a downside of rng spawns. Big agree on the lvl 40 thing, i was a large fan of that.
yea i put prolly 600 hours in wonderlands and just had so much fun. i wanted so much more for this game because the fantasy nature made it easier to me to build craft. its just disappointing. also the one thing that lazy didnt say is how when they showed their first bits of footage i was so hype for a recurve bow sort of weapon type when they showed off the sporewarden and it did not live up to my expectation. give me recurve bows in the next game thanks. good video lazy
haha, I made a bow for damage build and it's capable, will 2 shot an ettin. But anything small, fast or a boss and you become sad. The main thing is the delay on shot + aim punch.
the gun thing is so true i just recently did my first play through and it was fun but yea most guns are very weak in end game and i felt i was getting carried by my spells also idk if its just me but why do shotguns just absolutely suck in this game? the crystal shotties are so bad they fire slow have a slow projectile and dont do much dmg it felt like only crossbows and smgs were viable
After watching the gameplay in the background, I really need to reconsider my Frost-Shivver build. It feels like I'm tickling enemies most of the time, and chaos chamber bosses take me forever to defeat.
yeah sometime it just needs a litttle rejig and different approach. Many people confuse this game for having no build diversity and everything being weak for the bosses just being abit tougher than typical BL standards. I have a videoup on that build called the "blender" if you want to see what I did for it.
Depends which part of the game you enjoy. I'd say go with base game and if you enjoy the endgame alot and want to get more out of it (loot, maps etc) then grab the season pass on sale).
No it's not worth it, the chaos chambers are an endless loop of grinding/playing them because even if you get all the gear you want, you have nothing else to do in the game besides more chaos chambers. However if you don't care and still wanna play the game then I would buy the base game and play it, then if you enjoy it you can either buy all the "PLC" or buy the only one that matters which is the 4th one that gives access to the blightcaller class.
Yeah, unfortunately it's more expensive to do it separate, even with sales. The ultimate edition of BL3 is on sale, currently, for $30. Or, I could get base game for $10ish when it's on sale and (right now) season pass 1 for $15 and sp2 for $18. As an example; I already have bl3. It's typically a better price to buy complete editions on sale rather than any measure of piecemealing. I'll wait until the total package of wonderlands is down to $30. May take another year or another series release before it gets there, though.
@@TrialBySquire Yeah that's understandable, my main gripe was just the first 3 "PLC" are not worth it because the only reason you would want them is so that they would appear in the chaos chambers, and then the 4th one is the only one that's worth it because it adds another class to the game. However if it's more cost effective to just buy the complete edition then go for it, the game is pretty fun other then having to collect loot dice, and the fact that chaos chambers is the only endgame content you can do.
Regarding the PLCs, what was up with no respawns? And yes those bosses were poorly conceived. I dread unlocking those two on new characters, which is not what you want out of additional content.
The idea is its to make it a more challenging punishing dungeon. And well because of how the loot fo the PLCs work dying and being sent out literally didn't matter. Though by 3 and 4 when they made them longer due to complaints about the first, dying is rougher yeah. I will say fyodor is a blast on spell and gun builds. And redmourns arena is just so coooool! And the only complaint i have about the redmourne boss is some attacks are loose with the defnition of "cover". Being deeper into cover sorts that though and the arena gives you plenty of safe spots.
Your description of Chaos levels really makes me wonder if we played the same game, they felt like such a drudge to me. And while yes, they were optional, you can say that about any part of any game. I want to max out everything and be the best I can, and Chaos levels turned that into a chore for me, 'I'll get a few level chaos levels, and then I'll reward myself with literally anything else. My other big gripe with this was the characterisation of ourselves. I'll happily play through BL3 multiple times to see how Amara differs from Fl4k, but I haven't even levelled my second character in Wonderlands because they feel so samey
If your only desire is number go up and not to enjoy the gameplay athe level you enjoy most then that's on you to take responsibility for. The game gives you a mountain of options to tweak your difficulty to suit you and push your build. You can make a build the absolutely best it can possibly be without even touching the top half of the chaos trials. Whcih you can then ring through the raidboss gauntlet and boss rushes. And here yes is where more content would be more better. In terms of different characters feeling the same, they will during the lower levels yes when your build isn't together. But a dual spell build is night and day to a from the shadows gun build which again is night an day to a dreadwind build. Even further gone from Fl4k to Amara.
@@LazyData I meant in terms of characterisation, not in mechanical terms of play. Fl4k's VERBAL response to a situation is very different to Amara's. In Wonderlands the characters are very forgettable Gruff A vs Strange A might as well be the same.
Wonderlands is one of the biggest disappointments ive ever had, because it had SO MUCH POTENTIAL, all they had to do was actually use what they learned from 3
And the endless grinding of chaos levels... :( I levelled 1 character to chaos 100, and did not bother with remaining ones .... I definitely like the mayhem system better in BL3, at least it was a lot easier to get to M10 on alts. )
The guns were definitely meh. I couldn't ever get any damage out the liquid cooling. The Thunder Anima was awesome but I had the same problem. I almost always ended up with the White Rider, a non pixie Feriore or a Sword Splosion.
Good summary. I loved the game and am playing endgame again just now trying new build variations. I liked the diversion from the BL predecessors, particularly with multi-classing, spells, melee, status effects, soaked effect & dark magic. I also didn't share the wider outrage over the DLCs. What does grind my gears is the excessive RNG and the unmeleeable enemies and crystals. As a spellshot main I also didn't feel that the action skills were particularly well balanced across the classes, compared to ambihextrous. Overall though, a fantastic addition to the *lands series but please no more bunnies and wheels.
I really loved the game until I was faced with the farming problem. The point of this and all -lands games is to build an awesome build to tackle the hardest content in the game. In Wonderlands, you have to take the hardest content in the game to have the "privilege" of farming the gear you need. There were WAY too many variables with the gear, so when you were granted the item (exclusively from the bunnies), it's still not what you want. The armor/class mods were also lazily put together. It's like they made a game that was too complex for them to come up with unique class mods. As an alternative, I would have organized class mods under the primary class and themed based on material and/or weight. Clawbringer could have a Heavy Mythril classmod that absorbs elemental damage and adds it to your hammer as elemental melee, as an example. Imagine standing in an elemental puddle and wrecking with Storm Dragon's Judgement.
The thing with armour is they made it so any class could use any armour, as a tie in to the multi class system. But I think i agree with you it would be more interesting to keep armour class specific. Would give an extra reason to maybe go with a certain multi class.
I like the chaos chamber. It's cool! But somehow Gearbox decided that it should be the only thing I want to do once I've finished the story once, forever. Even the DLC is mechanically just a new chaos chamber. They love it so much they decided to replace TVHM, UVHM, and story DLCs with just chaos chamber and nothing else and it absolutely baffles me.
I think the biggest problem I had with the dlc's is that they felt like takedowns, and while takedowns are some of the best content in BL3 they were free. Also, grinding for the right stats on armor, rings and necklaces went from a challenging grind to an impossibility since they never weighed armor and stuff in your class' favor But also, I just wanted a longer life cycle for this game. There's such a solid foundation here and they just ditched it after the first season pass?! It makes no sense. Unless of course they sent everyone to work on BL4
I think they wanted to feel like takedowns but they lacked even a sliver of the challenge. And no challenge = boring. I will say farming for competent items for your builds is much much better since the last patch.
@@LazyData That's cool to hear that patches fixed it a bit, farming armor, rings and necklaces was some of the most disheartening stuff I've ever gone through and I've relentlessly tried getting perfect classmods for my characters in bl3.
@@bellystraw farming for perfect in either game is a lost cause. The point is youonly need half of perfect to comfortably make your build fit together and beat the game, the other half is to keep you playing. Also more variety in stats on items = more variety in directions you can take a build. Does mean you don't get thatfeeling of "Done" you got in BL2 though. I much prefer the BL3 / WL style though.
Great video! I really love this game! 300+ hours and I’m still having fun. But this game does have glaring flaws. The guns couldve used some buffs to stuff like fire rate, reload speed, accuracy, to make them feel better. Different buff depending on the specific guns, except ARs wholesale buffs there. The game needed more endgame options and dlc content support. I would love to see future installments get these to keep people playing.
I got more value out of them. BL3 DLCs are one and done per toon. But WL DLC content keeps showing up beyond it. All the loot is added to the world drop pool, the maps show up in chambers, the bosses show up in chambers just apart of the pool. Each DLC made the chamber get more and more varied. And bloody nora was there alot of goo cosmetics for the character creator. They are very different types of content that cannot be 1:1 compared, just the style of the WL ones better suits what i like about these games, which is the engamd content loop once you have your build up and running. Doesn't mean they couldn't be higher quality though.
I like the chaos chambers, but I don't like them being the MAIN thing. I just want to farm bosses/unique enemies like the older games. Then since half the bosses are hidden in the chaos chambers plus it's the best way to farm kinda ruined it.
I think the 4 side story maps originally were DLC but wonderlands was to short so they added it to the base game and the planed free/cheap new bosses in the mirrors became the DLC we got instead. With the circumstances around covid etc I think they did a solid job. If they invest more time and money into wonderlands 2 and refine the game even more it will probably be the best game in the borderlands universe in my opinion.
That first theory can be shot down real quick. They're even smaller than what we got as DLCs, 1 of them doesn't even have a boss. The very very first bit of WL content we saw was from within one of those sides maps. And it would assume that then they could get all 4 of them into the game for launch without delays, and then make up 4 more to release in just the first few months post launch. In modern day game development. Not a fucking chance. Especialy sicne GBX don't do crunch
@@LazyData They have different quest icons they were exactly like Borderlands 3 DLC quest icons, and are different then the others in Wonderlands, and are the only zones where the main campaign doesn't take you. Did you see Joltz complete the coiled captors in under 10 minutes and he had to wait and killed time with microsoft paint. Also most games also work on DLC as they are working on the initial release. Explain how the quests in those areas have different icons from the other zones in the game. The 4 zones are short and have a few quests but actually take longer then doing the initial run of the mirror PLC. The only difference unless you start a new campaign you can't those quests are done while you can just repeatedly do the mirrors.
imo the whole design of how chaos levels works is insane to me and i refuse to sit there and grind chaos dungeons for 30 levels for better loot luck. i love farming gear, i have 500 hours in bl3, but when im forced to grind levels for drop chances im immediately turned off. wonderlands could have been the best and most fulfilling in the franchise but fell really short
It's only 10 runs to reach 50 though. And during those runs you're still getting loot for your build. The point was is you're progressing your build while progressing your character. BL2 you couldn't do that because of the strict OP level stat on gear. BL3 had that strick stat too but you could just skip the climb, though that had its own problems. No system so far is flawless. And they've tried several different ones instead of just repeating. I like that.
@@LazyData you're right that no system has been flawless, but in your point (at least what i gather) it is good theyve tried different things. my response may have been tongue in cheek sorry for that. im seeing also that a lot of the things i didnt care for have been improved though the loot luck thing is a bit of a sore point for me, but im nitpicking and you have a busy day im sure so i hope you enjoy and thanks for taking the time to respond
@@ape9273 No worries! for what its worth loot luck dice are now per profile rather than per character. I get not liking the system though, though i personally do like the upsides it brings
Good review. I loved the game but I always treated it as a “smaller” Borderlands. Knew it was going to be a shorter experience. Chaos chambers are brilliant at first, but in keeping with the smaller offering, you really didn’t have the option of much other end game. I liked the build crafting and it kinda forced you out of a “guns only” mindset which is probably good for me as I am kind of a guns only guy. My biggest disappointment was that the experience was just…shorter. I knew it was going to be that way, but I was still disappointed. Well, that and the DLC‘s which only the last one had any interest from me. Hope all is well with you! Looking forward to Borderlands 4!
Played it from launch until the patch they added Chaos 35 before the first DLC dropped (if they were plc they wouldn't cost dlc prices) It was literally only good in the moment between launch and that patch, when we had blind hope for it's future, it's balancing could have been fixxed and endgame wasn't just 100 fucking levels of chaos chambers just so you can do chaos chambers some more.
Personally I dipped out before 2nd Mirror was released but one thing i always felt was that the Mirrors DLC would have been a great DLC...if it was all combined. That plus New character would have been a DLC fans wouldn't have complained too much about and left them clammoring for more. I also dont like the insane rng of armors, but other than that great game
Had the sporewarden sniper ammo regen build not been nerfed id be playing sporewarden to this day. Never got around to making that build unfortunately.
I'm enjoying it. I guess i can see how the range is short lived but I'm about 2 weeks in and having a blast. I do hope to see more from this game and especially Tina. There wasn't much of a story but from the dialogue, I feel like there can be. From my brief understanding, they're all on a ship waiting for repairs and playing the DnD to hold them over. Tbh it's like a crew pulled right from the verse of The Outerworlds. The vibe and design checks those boxes too. They could literally make a team with those 3 plus a few unspoken players possibly. Idk where they're going with this but I'm onboard. They handled the DLC's poorly but the Dev's still deserve to see their dream through. They didn't f*ck that up. The greedy, stupid corporate side did... I'm officially a fan of the TTW game franchise. I need more from it.
HARD AGREE on the point about the progression towards the fearamid, I loved sanctuary but in BL3 I used to roll my eyes everytime u go back to like return a key then immediately leave again it felt pointless at times. Wonderlands is a constant move forward on your quest both in world and in the overworld. On the Gunplay I agree as well could be better and also in terms of accessibility when playing on controller especially my fingers would ache using guns like the rubys spite for example having to constantly press triggers or M1 to shoot for long periods rather than holding didn’t feel nice for me. The PLC I think we all know they were bad, they got progressively better but they were bad. I also hate how all these new rooms and bosses you unlock you never actually face in the chambers because most of the time you are doing trials or the weekly challenges which are scripted rooms and bosses from the base game. The stories were lacklustre and they funnelled into adding content to the only form of endgame content in chaos chambers which people had already said they wanted something different after the first few months. I think the devs learned from these though and I’m sure BL4 DLC will be better for it. Overall I loved this game for what it is, my 2022 gaming experience was only positive because of this game really. For the resources they had they did a great job, and I’m fully convinced the devs have learned some big lessons from this game that will lead to BL4 being a fantastic game, I’m just sad that things are so quiet in the borderlands right now while we are waiting but that’s just how it be. Ps: creators like Lazy , Moxsy and Quag made my wonderlands experience wayyyy better and I’m thankful for that.
@@123beserk tbf we don't really know the order of things. Embracer group says GBX are working on 9 games rn lmao. Though BL4 before WL 2 is a very very safe bet.
If bl3 had a story as good as wonderlands it would have been so popular. Chaos chambers. I started playing the game with someone who has never played the game before and I told them the end game is really bad. We got to the first encounter they didn’t enjoy it 1 bit, I told them ok so 3x enemy spawns 6x the length that’s the end game and dlc’s, they said that’s it, YES YES IT IS
They didn't nerf brrzerker and they didn't kill LC. It wasn't be all end all anymore, but I was still taking down the raid bosses with it on C35 clawbringer brrzerker.
I was so hyped for this game, I even preordered the $100 edition to get the season pass. I was very disappointed with so many of their bizarre decisions, and once the DLC dropped the writing was on the wall for me and I just dropped it. I got the Platinum trophy and then never picked it up again.
Bl2 is my favorite game of all time, so naturally I broke my never pre order or buy at launch rule for bl3 and was reminded of why I had the rule in the first place.
i personally had fun with a single maxed out playthrough and left it there however, i dont like fantasy in the first place and like you said the guns didnt feel so good so i didnt even bother with the dlc and i pray that there wont be a second wonderlands i prefer the more grounded settings like in bl1 where weird weapons and ennemies arent at every corner this game felt very repetitive very fast on that front in my opinion: while everything was looking fantastic, it felt linear: pass a corner, new area with ennemies, again and again unlike older titles, all the misteries and hidden info wasnt there, it was just like any other single player linear game where you have to eat the entire story and pray that you like it then again, it makes sense since its tinas world and like you said it wasnt for everyone still, its good to see that people who are keen to these kind of rpg fantasy settings got their fill haha
long story short: missed opportunity. The highest possible potential to create an imaginary world that can expand anyway possible after the basic story. Dishonest cashgrab DLCs, subpar vs borderlands, which basically rendered the game abandonware. I hope they try a version two. They did a pretty good job with the basic story, the guns, the spells, the action skills. Traveling the world is also more fun than vehicles in BL. Another issue though the graphics are too much, almost epilepsy level, they are tiring at long plays, vs bl3 which is graphically a work of art. They could try to do a new version, more thought out as a complete world
I enjoyed the campaign then quit after they nerfed my build something like 3 times in a row over just a few weeks. If you want players to spend time gearing up endgame builds, give them some reasonable stability of those builds.
the biggest contra for me is the Abandonnement for wonderlands the same way they left bl3. overall the story is ok for what it is but wonderlands has not enough content for me to enjoy it the way i enjoy bl2 for example
My biggest problem: loot. There's too much of it. Less is more. Gearbox got confused. They thought that zillions of guns would be better. But choice can be a tyranny. Having too much loot actually devalues loot.
Guns: This game they feel like shit and to me don't deal enough damage. I feel like my Spore-Zerker is not capable of dealing enough damage quickly to be viable.
@@carpenterrichard4 No different than farming a boss over and over. Only a CC run is farmore involved than a miniboss who can't fight back followed by a loading screen and a commute. That's what grind is in games. Repetition.
I'm in deep a Bl1 Roland playthrough rn, so gonna finish that first then I'll give it a try. Ive Heard better things than what I experienced with BL3 redux, and it seems they're updating it too so can wait for more of those to roll out.
Ah yes the game that was good until they kept on adding chaos chamber after chaos chamber after CHAOS CHAMBER dumb fuckin move on their part and ALSO THOSE GARBAGE DLC that made me stop playing. When it first came out me and my friend spent 8 to hour days playing.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
A DnD inspired game but no actual full length DnD campaigns (which could actually have been the dlc) is such a missed opportunity
I don't think you've played much D&D then. DMs regularly come up with contrived sidequests and other things to do, reasons to wander around and explore. The classic "There's a cave just off the side of your path to the next town, do you explore it?" The Wonderlands Oneshots are named for what they exactly are, tabletop oneshots that are meant to be played in 1 or 2 sessions.
@@marcopolo8584they are headhunter level dlcs. The whole game feels like just an expansion of bl3 not a standalone title
@@warlocksnevereverdie It was made during the pandemic, of course it does.
@@marcopolo8584 no excuse for how much they charged for it. Plenty of other titles delayed or released a finished game instead of half assing it and charging full price.
@@warlocksnevereverdie Fair. Still worth waiting for a sale to get.
Wonderlands is my favourite out of all of them by such a large margin because of how much fun it is to play but it feels like gearbox refuses to learn from all their mistakes and successes at the same time. Its like they're allergic to it
The point about the guns not feeling great is spot on. I hated the feel of most of the weapons especially the “pistols”
100% agree about the guns. In trying to differentiate WL from BL, Gearbox ended up making the guns less fun. It’s really quite stark going back to BL3 to see how good the guns feel there (though tbf they absolutely nailed guns in BL3).
This is probably my number one complainant with WL. I love what they did with spells and melee, but especially when leveling, gun builds just aren’t as satisfying to play.
I loved the game when was going through the story. Once I got to endgame, it felt like there were only a couple viable play options with incredibly strict gear requirements - and those were constantly being changed with wild nerf/buff swings. Whenever I finally started to feel like I was progressing, the build was either nerfed or 20+ chaos levels were added. I was burned out and playing other games before the DLCs dropped.
I will say what I think is good about chaos caps is they are opt in. A level cap is not, ie if they increase the level cap, by simply playing what you enjoy you'll level up, outscale your loot and you'll be forced to re-grind.
But with the chaos system, if you're just getting comfy with chaos 20, and they add Chaos 35, cool, can just ignore it and keep doing your thing at 20 and its like 35 doesn't exist. So no downside to them adding the extra levels at all.
@@LazyData I agree on the opt-in aspect, but how many people kept playing the game when they were 20+ chaos levels down, gear drops were trash, and Dry'l was unbeatable unless they used one of a handful of specific builds with strict gear requirements? Gearbox waited far too long to address any of that and the players, including me, left.
Your point about this being a game for endgame grind sort of players was dead on. Wonderlands embraced and really did well at bringing MMO raid-style dance-or-die mechanical difficulty to the series. Much like with MMOs, though, the audience for that was a tiny fraction of the player base.
A shame, really. The gameplay was amazing - best in the IP to date.
@@LazyData I respect your view but for me this is a prety weak argument , say like " keep doing your thing at 20 and its like 35 doesn't exist" is like say "no progression for you sorry" no one pay 70 bucks on game for that is just bad design
@@leonardonascimentosilva4236 You do get progression though. The tier system in this game didn't separate items by levels anymore. You can get the max tiers stuff at not the max level. That's like saying Doom having an ultra nightmare is stopping you from progressing because you enjoy normal mode. It's just a difficulty slider.
Also to the original point. If you're playing the game and trying to get to chaos 20. They can then either not add anything, or add 35. The addititon of 35 doesn't affect the climb to 20 in anyway. And has no impact on the game at that level. There is no downside. That's the point im trying to convey. It just gives people who have already done the grind more to do if they want to.
@@leonardonascimentosilva4236 unfortunately, your argument lends itself to "I payed money so I should be able to beat all the content at every difficulty". There has to be a place for hardcore players to have a hardcore challenge. Sorry if that makes it inaccessible to some. Lazys point is good, I think, in that this doesn't gate actual content, just the difficulty level. It's it perfect? No. But it's better than a story dlc or raid added being too hard so people don't get any chance to play it or get the new gear. This system allows you to play every piece of content while allowing for selectable difficulty. It's not shameful to decide you don't want to play at Max chaos and prefer the feel of 20. That's the point of it. You still get to go everywhere on the map and kill all the various mobs.
The off-ness with the guns definitely was a factor with the magic barreled ones, they all feel like "damage over projectile speed", even the good ones like the Crossblade and the White Rider still feel kinda slow and clunky and need a lot of working around to get used to. I think they really should have done a bit more variation with them if they wanted them to feel distinct but also usable. For the endgame I did kind of feel like relegating the better boss drops to the Chaos Chamber took away some of the impetus to actually go back through the world, which is a shame given all the quality they put into the maps.
Yeah, as much as I adore the chaos chamber from a design perspective. And the flow of the maps. They were very claustrophobic!
i was really on fence about wonderlands, cause im not a high fantasy/DnD kind of guy, but youve really sold me. everything looks so flashy and snappy, it's good to hear builds actually have diversity and viability
I tried to use a nice variety of builds in the gameplay to get the point across hehe. Game fun.
It's a really fun game. But, the endgame is disappointing. From what I recall, either 2k or Gearbox didn't have faith in the experiment. When fans actually enjoyed it, they didn't realize how to pivot and capitalize on the fan response to WL. Instead just... Putting out small weekly support instead of a real campaign expansion.
your point on gunplay is really spot-on because i noticed this since my first playthrough a year ago. wonderlands gunplay feels weirdly less enjoyable than bl3 even though technically both are using the same gunplay system and i could never put my hands on to why thats the case.
also wonderlands enemies use a lot of projectile throwing instead of bullets and it really shows the aweful pin-point ai accurate throws they do where they'll throw it perfectly were you are going and you need to zig-zag and change direction right after they throw it but before it hit you, and its really hard to do that when you're in a room with 20+ enemies doing this thing over and over
I no longer have access to your discord, the link is invalid
I heard about their recent changes potentially breaking links. Thanks for letting me know. Working on a new one
@@LazyData thank's you so much
started this game a week ago with my girlfriend and we were both addicted. had the best time. even loved the chaos chamber (boss runs) finding good end game info online though was so hard because we would grind for gear that turned out to be nerfed over and over again. i wish the dice grind and chaos lv 100 grind were atleast 50% quicker, overworld bosses had better loot luck and that you could grind chaos levels in the boss run mode. those regular chaos chambers hunting down a couple enemies at a time before more spawn in is annoying. overall though still my fav borderlands game since 2.
Decided to come back to this title and honestly all this game needed was one final general buff to a few gun types and a NG+ Sure the mirrors were a scam but we all learned a lesson from it. Overall u can still enjoy a few casual hours innit. The secret raids are at least doable and engaging. Also hopefully they never bring back the increasing rerolling cost, cause that shit was absolutely fucking stupid.
They fixed re-rolling in the very first patch of the game
@@LazyData I’d increase the moon orb cap more. I get why it’s there, but you can go through 16K so quickly when you’re just trying to get that one specific enchantment.
@@PanRhei yeah id agree with that. Honestly like 100k would be comfy. Still would fullfil the purpose.
I really loved this game but the chaos levels and dlc re doing them just put me off the game so much sadly if it wasnt so dreadful it would be in my top 3 i love the classes so much and area designs and cool charaters monsters
For Wonderlands music I always turn the sfx and dialogue down a bit and boost the music. Makes it a lot more fun to play. While Joshua Carro is new to the Borderlands games I think he brought something new and refreshing to the soundtrack.
I also love having the full soundtrack as ambient music while I'm doing work or chores around the house😅
Allow me to farm a massive amount of downvotes by saying this:
"Wonderlands showed me what I already suspected from BL3, that Tiny Tina has run her course and needs to go away." Also, "Anthony Burch was the magic man; you won't see another GOOD ~lands game without addressing the lack of a worthy successor to him."
BL3's story was, at best, "not great". Wonderlands? Same. TPS did some good stuff (Like you say though, a good story didn't play so well because the pace was off) but A. that wasn't GBX developing it and B. that studio's gone anyhow.
Glad you're still around and doing your content. I look forward to more from you as BL4 approaches.
I agree on the Tina front. Though her part in WL was done well in my opinion and they used the character well. But ye, the whole B Team in BL3 felt shoehorned in.
I've not touched wonderlands since chaos 100 was announced. I just Cba grinding 50 more trials to get to max difficulty whilst also having a day job. Also the fact that I have to do that for every character is just demoralising. I loved how I can just crank mayhem to 11, but also enjoyed getting to OP8 in BL2. So if they can make Chaos levels go up 10 at a time for each trial, then that would fix a lot of my issues with the game.
Also a very low-key PC pain was that I can't copy/paste my own save files to get multiple characters - I used to love having 40-50 characters - each having its own unique build. Can't do that in Wonderlands.
So yeah unless they make it so Chaos levels go up in 10s all the time I'm just gonna wait for a save editor and after getting one to 100 legit, save-edit all other endgame characters to 100
I agree. The climb to get a character to a state of max progression is much faster AND more accessible to those with less time, the climb to max difficulty is not. I feel that.
I honestly think an entire section should've been dedicated to overall balancing. Wonderlands' balancing is so laughably bad that you genuinely can't build the exact archetypes that the game fucking lays out for you with tons and tons of obvious support, and succeed. You have to abuse, abuse, abuse. One nerf down, onto the next abuse case until gearbox gets bored. Class balance is an absolute nightmare in and of itself. My favorite example is after an entire year of buff after buff, the clawbringer capstone is still completely and utterly useless. Honestly, the main overarching problem with the balance in wonderlands was, and still is, that builds don't just follow a straight progression and work how you'd think. Everything is in spikes. All it takes is discovering one interaction between multiplier types or getting ONE item to catapult you from struggling to breezing through with little more to min max. The constant struggling in early chaos chamber because your build sucks too much to actually target farm the boss you want to to get an item to make your build not feel like shit, feels HORRIBLE.
No I'm afraid the issue was your approach. Nothing was ever nerfed into unusability. If you struggled with something after, there were other improvements to your setup you could make. There's no rocket science or abuse in making sure your enchants can be triggered by your build and making sure you amulet and main damage source are the same element etc.
I feel like Wonderlands did a lot well, but at the same time they made some big mistakes. For one I think that loot luck has too much to do with dedicated drop rates. If drop rates went from maybe 10% total to 30% total (considering how crowded sources are, and how much RNG is on armor) instead of 0 to 10ish% it would be a lot better. Another thing i wish was different is the loot enemies. I think most of them taking damage from melee only left some people feeling boxed into playing melee. I know I did. Finally I wish that there was a way to just fight the non story bosses. The featured run is the best way to fight the raid bosses, but as of typing this week's featured run is the gigachamber. I like the gigachamber, but not when I want to fight the raid bosses. I really wish they were their own runs. But apart from that, I've had my ups and downs with the game, but I'm at a point where I can look on it fondly.
Yeah, I remember realising a loot enemy is only damaged by melee. Then finding out my character's melee damage is so garbage that it took me literal minutes inside the chaos chamber to kill one. It was not a good day.
Also I honestly agree with your analysis on loot luck. It was super important to get loot luck, but you hardly felt rewarded for doing so. Especially when you had to factor in natural gun part RNG, not to mention the chaos tiers for items.
Personally I find the drop rates perfect. The lack of guns worth grinding for them was my problem. Most of the guns in the game for me personally wasn’t that fun to shoot for the exact reason the guy said in the video. They had one or more things holding them back which made it bittersweet when getting drops.
You summed up the endgame really quite well
Story DLC doesn't mean you can't have replayability. Pete's Bar, Magic Slaughter, Mutator Arena, Raid Bosses and even just great maps bring so much do a story DLC after it is complete. But what a story DLC does is it adds alot of depth to subsequent playthroughs (which I think was another missed opportunity for Wonderlands, its campaign was short and sweet and perfect for repeated playthroughs). Like though I didn't love BL3's main campaign, I adore Guns, Love and Tentacles and Handsome Jackpot, and would playthrough new characters just to experience those DLCs again. Wonderlands lack of story DLC in a D&D style game is just a little unfortunate.
Thanks Lazy, good retrospective and critique of what WL did well and not so well.
I was getting really tired of the chaos chambers, but what got me to quit playing was the constant crashing that started after an update.
Crashing is never fun. I've been playing tons of Elden Ring lately and it crashes every session. shits nuts
Hi Lazy, I know it's not wonderlands related but I can't find anyone else online that figured this out. Flak can break immune phases with Torgue stickies. I've done it to Tyrene since launch and it still works at mayhem 11. I know it was me being selfish but I just didn't want it patched due to farming. Set up is using a bangstick (the higher pellets the better) or redline. You can use the unforgiven obviously for crit damage. For Tyrene just empty most of the mag, then switch weapon on the eye up top. Not her body and she's dead 100% of the time.
Your point about the constant forward movement from brighthoof to the Fearamid is great. That was great for the story, but what made the dragonlord such a good villain? I keep asking people this question and it's never answered. He felt completely wasted to me and didn't seem like he had much involvement at all. I'd love to know what you liked about him
Same principles as Jack really. Great dialogue, understandable motive. Wasn't annoying. Felt believable and fit into the world of the game. Take the twins for example, i liked them, esp Troy, but to me that influencer personality didn't belong in a borderlands game. Dragon lord goes. I especially like his arc of going from tinas first character and becoming a villain. Because he was her character during her campaign with Roland, she walked out on that run, and never got to play with Roland again. That's traumatic for her, so the dragon lord manifesting in her head as a villain is right on.
As for involvement. Had more direct involvement to the player character than Jack. But less than the Twins, something the Twins did well on.
@@LazyData 👌👌👌
I personally found myself not enjoying many of the red text guns in this game. It felt like too many guns were balanced by having huge ammo consumption + a big fire rate making them super ammo inefficient and that just made me not want to use them, and with how few reload speed boosts there are across the various classes it just felt like I was reloading more often than I was shooting.
Yeah I feel that.
While I agree, the chaos chambers are an awesome endgame activity, it should have been the activity you‘re getting ready for, the place where your build can show what it’s capable of, not the place you grind mindlessly to get your build together. I burned myself out on these way too quick and then the first plc dropped… and I the game one day later.
The first playthrough was awesome and most of the things the game offers are awesome as well. There are however many obvious issues that shouldn‘t have made it into the game on release. It feels like they only did briefly test it for bugs and the sort but never actually had someone play it like a player would. Lucky dice are one example. The lack of endgame options to farm stuff as well. Especially since BL3 had the exact same mistake.
And then there was the liquid cooling, it was the gun to look out for and right as most people finally had it they nerfed it. Making most of that farming basically wasted. Huge damper for the motivation of many. And apparently they knew before release that it had to be nerfed.
Either way, I got my money worth in the game and the time I spent in it was a good time. I really wish this time they learn from their mistakes and both BL4 and WL2 don‘t repeat them. I‘m really looking forward to both
I get ya! Though I will say Liquid cooling is still a fine weapon, its just not a be all end all, and it shouldn't be imo.
I haven't looked at this game in a while and what stood out most to me was OH MY GOD THE VISUAL CLUTTER I AM BLINDDDD
The base game was actually fantastic. If they'd done decent DLC and support, a lot of people would still be playing the game now. Overworld, character creation, multiclassing, hero points, spells and melee weapons were all very welcome additions. I really appreciate status effects being more powerful too.
I defended this game for a long time, hoping they'd add story DLCs and some kind of Takedown-style gameplay... but it never came. Now, I'm burnt out on their games and feeling cheated. I'm not sure I'll buy BL4.
On the subject of DLC, I don't count additional runs as extra time. Only the boss changes so maybe you can have the 15-20 minutes of the run plus another minute each for the slightly altered boss (if that). Your criticism of the BL3 DLCs could have been solved by adding some form of endgame to each one (as BL2 and TPS had). Even if they just made invincible versions of each of the bosses with higher quality gear, it would have been something.
I get ya! and they slapped us in the face with Eista too in BL3 GLT. Wasn't happy about that.
Wonder why they didn't do anything with the slam.
In BL3 there's multiple viable endgame builds that just use slam. For those that don't know, use Flak or Amara, hold the GA or Unforgiven and slam with the spark plug or Hot Drop. Use phasecast(amara) or Rakks(flak) and then slam. Slamming procs Groundbreaker. Amara is really good with the Ice Spiker since it's action skill damage. Zane can use the Spark plug as well. I know this isn't a BL3 video but I'd thought I'd share some a different playstyle for BL3
yeah while WL expanding on alot of the groundwork BL3 put out, the slam was left behind.
Hey lazy. Surprised you didn't mention anything about the inventory UI. IMO, this and BL3 have some of the worst inventory UI's in modern games. I hope they overhaul it completely for the next lands game
There's alot to mention. And UI is always a catastrophe in every lands game
The guns are more about perks to other aspects of your build vice guns themselves being special
to summarize wonderlands in 1 sentence: Gearbox learned literally nothing from borderlands 3.
I am playing through the game from the start again and the comedy is so fun.
A very well thought out video. Thanks for genuinely trying to praise and criticize when each was warranted. It’s rare to see any actual sort of analysis when reviewing games.
Very well stated and informed video, thought this had some very balanced and thought out takes/opinions.
My job is mainly just physical work which was very busy this week. Allowed me to just do it while thinking of the script... over and over again lmao.
BL3 support was cut off because they wanted to do Wonderlands, and they didn't give Wonderlands that much support either and cut it way too early.
BL3 had 1-2 minimum, 2-3 years max worth of extra content and 2-3 more playable VH's I'm sure of it if we didn't have Wonderlands.
Therefore, WL will always leave a sour taste in my mouth. Sorry Gearbox, you fucked up this one badly.
I don't think its fair to say BL3 support was cut off, at all. The game is fucking massive, not just for BL standards but for video game standards in general. We got so fucking much. Also GBX were hirinig for BL4 before WL came out. So I'd suggest that after 3 years they simply "moved on". Not many AAA games get half that. Even a monster like Elden Ring is drier than BL3 was.
Agree with your assessment, I still really enjoy this game. I remind myself the story is from the perspective of a 13 year old running a roleplaying game. I think back to the campaigns I ran at that age and can't find any fault in the story or premise.
A couple of things I would like to see going forward with BL/WL franchise:
1. Loot filtering. Allow me to set certain kinds of loot that will convert to gold/money when they drop (cosmetics I have already unlocked, common quality, etc)
2. Salvaging and crafting system
Yeessss this game needed a filter
@@LazyData Another thing I like is when you feel like doing an allegiance run or a gun type run, or restricting yourself in challenging ways, the abilities and melee system help you get to the point where some manufacturers start to drop.
Very well written review 👌 Liked and subbed.
for me, the story experience is fantastic. Probably my favorite lands game for a playthrough. The spells, melee, and guns all felt crisp to use. Guns were just weird levels of effectiveness, never felt the need to use a sniper/launcher, or any of the blackpowder weapons. Probably didnt help the fact that i kept finding purple lewdites (this gun is truly insane) and swordsplosion from code. I tried other stuff and they were just worse so didnt bother.
Max level 40 is good because it forces you to actually make choices unlike 80 in BL2 or 72 in BL3 where you just basically get everything.
Endgame to me was completely boring, I only got to Chaos 20 for the achievement (used the same gear the entire way), after that i had zero desire to do them anymore and get higher. Half the time i'm running around the map trying to find the one enemy and wait for another to respawn. I really enjoyed BL3 endgame content but wonderlands didnt click with me at all. so outside of story runs it just had little replay value for me. Bought the game on sale for $30, sold it the next week for $25. Glad i got to enjoy it for a playthrough, and glad people enjoy it.
They since improved rate in the chambers to make them for active, but yeah a downside of rng spawns. Big agree on the lvl 40 thing, i was a large fan of that.
yea i put prolly 600 hours in wonderlands and just had so much fun. i wanted so much more for this game because the fantasy nature made it easier to me to build craft. its just disappointing. also the one thing that lazy didnt say is how when they showed their first bits of footage i was so hype for a recurve bow sort of weapon type when they showed off the sporewarden and it did not live up to my expectation. give me recurve bows in the next game thanks. good video lazy
haha, I made a bow for damage build and it's capable, will 2 shot an ettin. But anything small, fast or a boss and you become sad. The main thing is the delay on shot + aim punch.
the gun thing is so true i just recently did my first play through and it was fun but yea most guns are very weak in end game and i felt i was getting carried by my spells also idk if its just me but why do shotguns just absolutely suck in this game? the crystal shotties are so bad they fire slow have a slow projectile and dont do much dmg it felt like only crossbows and smgs were viable
After watching the gameplay in the background, I really need to reconsider my Frost-Shivver build. It feels like I'm tickling enemies most of the time, and chaos chamber bosses take me forever to defeat.
yeah sometime it just needs a litttle rejig and different approach. Many people confuse this game for having no build diversity and everything being weak for the bosses just being abit tougher than typical BL standards. I have a videoup on that build called the "blender" if you want to see what I did for it.
Did you listen to the OST on it's own?
Not fully. Only the tracks that stood out in gameplay
Do you have a build for your brr-reaver because i want to make a new character and that shit looked so damn fun
Waiting for a sale - is it worth getting a gold edition (or whatever it's called) or is base game only a better value?
Depends which part of the game you enjoy. I'd say go with base game and if you enjoy the endgame alot and want to get more out of it (loot, maps etc) then grab the season pass on sale).
No it's not worth it, the chaos chambers are an endless loop of grinding/playing them because even if you get all the gear you want, you have nothing else to do in the game besides more chaos chambers. However if you don't care and still wanna play the game then I would buy the base game and play it, then if you enjoy it you can either buy all the "PLC" or buy the only one that matters which is the 4th one that gives access to the blightcaller class.
Yeah, unfortunately it's more expensive to do it separate, even with sales. The ultimate edition of BL3 is on sale, currently, for $30. Or, I could get base game for $10ish when it's on sale and (right now) season pass 1 for $15 and sp2 for $18. As an example; I already have bl3.
It's typically a better price to buy complete editions on sale rather than any measure of piecemealing. I'll wait until the total package of wonderlands is down to $30. May take another year or another series release before it gets there, though.
@@TrialBySquire Yeah that's understandable, my main gripe was just the first 3 "PLC" are not worth it because the only reason you would want them is so that they would appear in the chaos chambers, and then the 4th one is the only one that's worth it because it adds another class to the game.
However if it's more cost effective to just buy the complete edition then go for it, the game is pretty fun other then having to collect loot dice, and the fact that chaos chambers is the only endgame content you can do.
for me the biggest bummer were the DLCs - super dispointed withthose. Essentially Takedowns you have to pay for, and not proper story driven DLCs :(
I'd pay for a takedown easy. These though were not of takedown quality :(
Regarding the PLCs, what was up with no respawns?
And yes those bosses were poorly conceived. I dread unlocking those two on new characters, which is not what you want out of additional content.
The idea is its to make it a more challenging punishing dungeon. And well because of how the loot fo the PLCs work dying and being sent out literally didn't matter. Though by 3 and 4 when they made them longer due to complaints about the first, dying is rougher yeah.
I will say fyodor is a blast on spell and gun builds. And redmourns arena is just so coooool! And the only complaint i have about the redmourne boss is some attacks are loose with the defnition of "cover". Being deeper into cover sorts that though and the arena gives you plenty of safe spots.
They’re less of a problem when you know what you’ll be up against, but do I want Imelda randomly crashing my melee characters CC runs?
@@PanRhei Executioners blade is the one stop shop for fixing that :D
Your description of Chaos levels really makes me wonder if we played the same game, they felt like such a drudge to me. And while yes, they were optional, you can say that about any part of any game. I want to max out everything and be the best I can, and Chaos levels turned that into a chore for me, 'I'll get a few level chaos levels, and then I'll reward myself with literally anything else.
My other big gripe with this was the characterisation of ourselves. I'll happily play through BL3 multiple times to see how Amara differs from Fl4k, but I haven't even levelled my second character in Wonderlands because they feel so samey
If your only desire is number go up and not to enjoy the gameplay athe level you enjoy most then that's on you to take responsibility for. The game gives you a mountain of options to tweak your difficulty to suit you and push your build. You can make a build the absolutely best it can possibly be without even touching the top half of the chaos trials. Whcih you can then ring through the raidboss gauntlet and boss rushes. And here yes is where more content would be more better.
In terms of different characters feeling the same, they will during the lower levels yes when your build isn't together. But a dual spell build is night and day to a from the shadows gun build which again is night an day to a dreadwind build. Even further gone from Fl4k to Amara.
@@LazyData I meant in terms of characterisation, not in mechanical terms of play. Fl4k's VERBAL response to a situation is very different to Amara's.
In Wonderlands the characters are very forgettable Gruff A vs Strange A might as well be the same.
Wonderland is a good game, got some friends to buy and play, they can’t put this game Down, no more COD 4 a while, keep up the good work bro👍👍👍👍👍.
Awesome to hear!
Wonderlands is one of the biggest disappointments ive ever had, because it had SO MUCH POTENTIAL, all they had to do was actually use what they learned from 3
And the endless grinding of chaos levels... :( I levelled 1 character to chaos 100, and did not bother with remaining ones .... I definitely like the mayhem system better in BL3, at least it was a lot easier to get to M10 on alts. )
Happy birthday
The guns were definitely meh. I couldn't ever get any damage out the liquid cooling. The Thunder Anima was awesome but I had the same problem. I almost always ended up with the White Rider, a non pixie Feriore or a Sword Splosion.
Hmm it was a nice game but for me it just did not hit the mark ...currently replaying Borderlands 2..
Good summary. I loved the game and am playing endgame again just now trying new build variations. I liked the diversion from the BL predecessors, particularly with multi-classing, spells, melee, status effects, soaked effect & dark magic. I also didn't share the wider outrage over the DLCs. What does grind my gears is the excessive RNG and the unmeleeable enemies and crystals. As a spellshot main I also didn't feel that the action skills were particularly well balanced across the classes, compared to ambihextrous. Overall though, a fantastic addition to the *lands series but please no more bunnies and wheels.
I really loved the game until I was faced with the farming problem. The point of this and all -lands games is to build an awesome build to tackle the hardest content in the game. In Wonderlands, you have to take the hardest content in the game to have the "privilege" of farming the gear you need. There were WAY too many variables with the gear, so when you were granted the item (exclusively from the bunnies), it's still not what you want. The armor/class mods were also lazily put together. It's like they made a game that was too complex for them to come up with unique class mods. As an alternative, I would have organized class mods under the primary class and themed based on material and/or weight. Clawbringer could have a Heavy Mythril classmod that absorbs elemental damage and adds it to your hammer as elemental melee, as an example. Imagine standing in an elemental puddle and wrecking with Storm Dragon's Judgement.
The thing with armour is they made it so any class could use any armour, as a tie in to the multi class system. But I think i agree with you it would be more interesting to keep armour class specific. Would give an extra reason to maybe go with a certain multi class.
I like the chaos chamber. It's cool! But somehow Gearbox decided that it should be the only thing I want to do once I've finished the story once, forever. Even the DLC is mechanically just a new chaos chamber. They love it so much they decided to replace TVHM, UVHM, and story DLCs with just chaos chamber and nothing else and it absolutely baffles me.
A real issue I have is that a lot of legendaries don’t have a dedicated drop
I think the biggest problem I had with the dlc's is that they felt like takedowns, and while takedowns are some of the best content in BL3 they were free.
Also, grinding for the right stats on armor, rings and necklaces went from a challenging grind to an impossibility since they never weighed armor and stuff in your class' favor
But also, I just wanted a longer life cycle for this game. There's such a solid foundation here and they just ditched it after the first season pass?! It makes no sense. Unless of course they sent everyone to work on BL4
I think they wanted to feel like takedowns but they lacked even a sliver of the challenge. And no challenge = boring.
I will say farming for competent items for your builds is much much better since the last patch.
@@LazyData That's cool to hear that patches fixed it a bit, farming armor, rings and necklaces was some of the most disheartening stuff I've ever gone through and I've relentlessly tried getting perfect classmods for my characters in bl3.
@@bellystraw farming for perfect in either game is a lost cause. The point is youonly need half of perfect to comfortably make your build fit together and beat the game, the other half is to keep you playing.
Also more variety in stats on items = more variety in directions you can take a build.
Does mean you don't get thatfeeling of "Done" you got in BL2 though.
I much prefer the BL3 / WL style though.
Great video! I really love this game! 300+ hours and I’m still having fun. But this game does have glaring flaws. The guns couldve used some buffs to stuff like fire rate, reload speed, accuracy, to make them feel better. Different buff depending on the specific guns, except ARs wholesale buffs there. The game needed more endgame options and dlc content support. I would love to see future installments get these to keep people playing.
Lazy; when you say you got more "mileage" from the TTW DLC's compared to the BL3 DLC's, what do you mean. You surely can't mean they are better.
I got more value out of them. BL3 DLCs are one and done per toon. But WL DLC content keeps showing up beyond it. All the loot is added to the world drop pool, the maps show up in chambers, the bosses show up in chambers just apart of the pool. Each DLC made the chamber get more and more varied. And bloody nora was there alot of goo cosmetics for the character creator.
They are very different types of content that cannot be 1:1 compared, just the style of the WL ones better suits what i like about these games, which is the engamd content loop once you have your build up and running. Doesn't mean they couldn't be higher quality though.
I like the chaos chambers, but I don't like them being the MAIN thing. I just want to farm bosses/unique enemies like the older games. Then since half the bosses are hidden in the chaos chambers plus it's the best way to farm kinda ruined it.
I think the 4 side story maps originally were DLC but wonderlands was to short so they added it to the base game and the planed free/cheap new bosses in the mirrors became the DLC we got instead.
With the circumstances around covid etc I think they did a solid job. If they invest more time and money into wonderlands 2 and refine the game even more it will probably be the best game in the borderlands universe in my opinion.
That first theory can be shot down real quick. They're even smaller than what we got as DLCs, 1 of them doesn't even have a boss. The very very first bit of WL content we saw was from within one of those sides maps. And it would assume that then they could get all 4 of them into the game for launch without delays, and then make up 4 more to release in just the first few months post launch.
In modern day game development. Not a fucking chance. Especialy sicne GBX don't do crunch
@@LazyData They have different quest icons they were exactly like Borderlands 3 DLC quest icons, and are different then the others in Wonderlands, and are the only zones where the main campaign doesn't take you. Did you see Joltz complete the coiled captors in under 10 minutes and he had to wait and killed time with microsoft paint. Also most games also work on DLC as they are working on the initial release. Explain how the quests in those areas have different icons from the other zones in the game. The 4 zones are short and have a few quests but actually take longer then doing the initial run of the mirror PLC. The only difference unless you start a new campaign you can't those quests are done while you can just repeatedly do the mirrors.
imo the whole design of how chaos levels works is insane to me and i refuse to sit there and grind chaos dungeons for 30 levels for better loot luck. i love farming gear, i have 500 hours in bl3, but when im forced to grind levels for drop chances im immediately turned off. wonderlands could have been the best and most fulfilling in the franchise but fell really short
It's only 10 runs to reach 50 though. And during those runs you're still getting loot for your build. The point was is you're progressing your build while progressing your character. BL2 you couldn't do that because of the strict OP level stat on gear. BL3 had that strick stat too but you could just skip the climb, though that had its own problems.
No system so far is flawless. And they've tried several different ones instead of just repeating. I like that.
@@LazyData you're right that no system has been flawless, but in your point (at least what i gather) it is good theyve tried different things. my response may have been tongue in cheek sorry for that. im seeing also that a lot of the things i didnt care for have been improved though the loot luck thing is a bit of a sore point for me, but im nitpicking and you have a busy day im sure so i hope you enjoy and thanks for taking the time to respond
@@ape9273 No worries! for what its worth loot luck dice are now per profile rather than per character. I get not liking the system though, though i personally do like the upsides it brings
Actually more hype for this video than for Wonderlands Redux ^^
Wonderlands has Ghostblade, but no BSB, so I'm divided (Amazing vid to go w an Amazing game mr strimmer man)
Good review. I loved the game but I always treated it as a “smaller” Borderlands. Knew it was going to be a shorter experience. Chaos chambers are brilliant at first, but in keeping with the smaller offering, you really didn’t have the option of much other end game. I liked the build crafting and it kinda forced you out of a “guns only” mindset which is probably good for me as I am kind of a guns only guy. My biggest disappointment was that the experience was just…shorter. I knew it was going to be that way, but I was still disappointed. Well, that and the DLC‘s which only the last one had any interest from me. Hope all is well with you! Looking forward to Borderlands 4!
Played it from launch until the patch they added Chaos 35 before the first DLC dropped (if they were plc they wouldn't cost dlc prices)
It was literally only good in the moment between launch and that patch, when we had blind hope for it's future, it's balancing could have been fixxed and endgame wasn't just 100 fucking levels of chaos chambers just so you can do chaos chambers some more.
Personally I dipped out before 2nd Mirror was released but one thing i always felt was that the Mirrors DLC would have been a great DLC...if it was all combined. That plus New character would have been a DLC fans wouldn't have complained too much about and left them clammoring for more.
I also dont like the insane rng of armors, but other than that great game
Super fun main game, but the post game and DLCs were horrendous
those slaughter arenas are way more entertaining and more interesting than anything in wonderlands.
Had the sporewarden sniper ammo regen build not been nerfed id be playing sporewarden to this day. Never got around to making that build unfortunately.
It wasn't nerfed? Unless you mean Sawmill specifically.
@@LazyData referencing the sawmill
The lack of an option to reset the main campaign to be able to play through again at max level has meant that I have left this game behind.
I'm enjoying it. I guess i can see how the range is short lived but I'm about 2 weeks in and having a blast. I do hope to see more from this game and especially Tina. There wasn't much of a story but from the dialogue, I feel like there can be. From my brief understanding, they're all on a ship waiting for repairs and playing the DnD to hold them over. Tbh it's like a crew pulled right from the verse of The Outerworlds. The vibe and design checks those boxes too. They could literally make a team with those 3 plus a few unspoken players possibly. Idk where they're going with this but I'm onboard. They handled the DLC's poorly but the Dev's still deserve to see their dream through. They didn't f*ck that up. The greedy, stupid corporate side did... I'm officially a fan of the TTW game franchise. I need more from it.
HARD AGREE on the point about the progression towards the fearamid, I loved sanctuary but in BL3 I used to roll my eyes everytime u go back to like return a key then immediately leave again it felt pointless at times. Wonderlands is a constant move forward on your quest both in world and in the overworld.
On the Gunplay I agree as well could be better and also in terms of accessibility when playing on controller especially my fingers would ache using guns like the rubys spite for example having to constantly press triggers or M1 to shoot for long periods rather than holding didn’t feel nice for me.
The PLC I think we all know they were bad, they got progressively better but they were bad. I also hate how all these new rooms and bosses you unlock you never actually face in the chambers because most of the time you are doing trials or the weekly challenges which are scripted rooms and bosses from the base game. The stories were lacklustre and they funnelled into adding content to the only form of endgame content in chaos chambers which people had already said they wanted something different after the first few months. I think the devs learned from these though and I’m sure BL4 DLC will be better for it.
Overall I loved this game for what it is, my 2022 gaming experience was only positive because of this game really. For the resources they had they did a great job, and I’m fully convinced the devs have learned some big lessons from this game that will lead to BL4 being a fantastic game, I’m just sad that things are so quiet in the borderlands right now while we are waiting but that’s just how it be.
Ps: creators like Lazy , Moxsy and Quag made my wonderlands experience wayyyy better and I’m thankful for that.
Wait is BO4 really happening
Yes, they went on a hiring spree for it before WL even came out.
@@LazyData jeez I’m so late 😂. I had no idea if BL4 was even gonna be a thing. I kinda just thought wonderlands 2 was next
@@123beserk tbf we don't really know the order of things. Embracer group says GBX are working on 9 games rn lmao. Though BL4 before WL 2 is a very very safe bet.
If bl3 had a story as good as wonderlands it would have been so popular. Chaos chambers. I started playing the game with someone who has never played the game before and I told them the end game is really bad. We got to the first encounter they didn’t enjoy it 1 bit, I told them ok so 3x enemy spawns 6x the length that’s the end game and dlc’s, they said that’s it, YES YES IT IS
I beat it my first blind playthrough in 11 hours, and my second in just under 9-
i just wish we got more dlc, and some raid bosses. was hoping we’d fight vesper, but i suspect she’s the boss for the sequel
More content would always be welcome!
I think the problem with tps and wonderlands is the community wants them to be full scale bl games but 2k and gearbox sees them as side games
100%
I do agree the guns didn’t feel super great in wonderlands.
Ummmmmm they killed the Liquid Cooling.... Like a month in. Nerfed BrrZerker's Frost damages.
They didn't nerf brrzerker and they didn't kill LC. It wasn't be all end all anymore, but I was still taking down the raid bosses with it on C35 clawbringer brrzerker.
I was so hyped for this game, I even preordered the $100 edition to get the season pass. I was very disappointed with so many of their bizarre decisions, and once the DLC dropped the writing was on the wall for me and I just dropped it. I got the Platinum trophy and then never picked it up again.
Bl2 is my favorite game of all time, so naturally I broke my never pre order or buy at launch rule for bl3 and was reminded of why I had the rule in the first place.
@@thebaddestlarry9424 I really loved BL3 by the end of its lifecycle, but at launch it really had me wanting for much more
i personally had fun with a single maxed out playthrough and left it there
however, i dont like fantasy in the first place and like you said the guns didnt feel so good so i didnt even bother with the dlc and i pray that there wont be a second wonderlands
i prefer the more grounded settings like in bl1 where weird weapons and ennemies arent at every corner
this game felt very repetitive very fast on that front in my opinion: while everything was looking fantastic, it felt linear: pass a corner, new area with ennemies, again and again
unlike older titles, all the misteries and hidden info wasnt there, it was just like any other single player linear game where you have to eat the entire story and pray that you like it
then again, it makes sense since its tinas world and like you said it wasnt for everyone
still, its good to see that people who are keen to these kind of rpg fantasy settings got their fill haha
long story short: missed opportunity. The highest possible potential to create an imaginary world that can expand anyway possible after the basic story. Dishonest cashgrab DLCs, subpar vs borderlands, which basically rendered the game abandonware. I hope they try a version two. They did a pretty good job with the basic story, the guns, the spells, the action skills. Traveling the world is also more fun than vehicles in BL. Another issue though the graphics are too much, almost epilepsy level, they are tiring at long plays, vs bl3 which is graphically a work of art. They could try to do a new version, more thought out as a complete world
Chaos chambers ripped off sanctuary onslaught from warframe
Warframe ripped off levels from coded arms then.
Same shit different game everything has been done before.
I enjoyed the campaign then quit after they nerfed my build something like 3 times in a row over just a few weeks. If you want players to spend time gearing up endgame builds, give them some reasonable stability of those builds.
the biggest contra for me is the Abandonnement for wonderlands the same way they left bl3. overall the story is ok for what it is but wonderlands has not enough content for me to enjoy it the way i enjoy bl2 for example
My biggest problem: loot. There's too much of it.
Less is more.
Gearbox got confused. They thought that zillions of guns would be better. But choice can be a tyranny.
Having too much loot actually devalues loot.
Hi LazyData!
Hi TechStoreZombie!
I really wish they would’ve let us reset the main story and just run through the campaign again.
yeah, a basic feature tbh. They had the system done right in BL3. Just needed to replicate
most guns in wonderlands dont use bullets, they use arrows. maybe thats why they feel slow. i think the arrow thing is fun.
Guns: This game they feel like shit and to me don't deal enough damage. I feel like my Spore-Zerker is not capable of dealing enough damage quickly to be viable.
Yhea gearbox yeeted on this one good title but no replayability
Something I don’t like is how it was a smaller game but wasn’t a smaller priced game, also they completely fucked up the dlcs and end game
I hate the repetitive chaos chambers
understandable. I dislike save quit farming as that's even shorter with less gameplay. So i prefer chaos chambers to BL farming
@@LazyData for farming the bunnies are great but I don't like doing it over and over to level up the gear.
@@LazyData for farming the bunnies are great but I don't like doing it over and over to level up the gear.
@@carpenterrichard4 No different than farming a boss over and over. Only a CC run is farmore involved than a miniboss who can't fight back followed by a loading screen and a commute.
That's what grind is in games. Repetition.
@@LazyData💯
People still play this game
TPS bashing was unnecessary.
No it really was that game is a literal skid mark
try redux with wonderlands, its soooo good
I'm in deep a Bl1 Roland playthrough rn, so gonna finish that first then I'll give it a try.
Ive Heard better things than what I experienced with BL3 redux, and it seems they're updating it too so can wait for more of those to roll out.
What made me stop playing wonderlands was the rng on the gear... It's awful
Ah yes the game that was good until they kept on adding chaos chamber after chaos chamber after CHAOS CHAMBER dumb fuckin move on their part and ALSO THOSE GARBAGE DLC that made me stop playing. When it first came out me and my friend spent 8 to hour days playing.