The Seiko's designs are just more appealing to me. I've got an mm reduced, & a Willard and for me they are great value - I love their hard coating, wish my Seamaster had it! Interesting video, thank you 👍🏻👍🏻
Great comparison video. I have an Orient blue Triton with power reserve, hands down one of my best divers. I also have three Seiko’s automatic, kinetic, and solar which I love all three. It’s very hard to compare incredible watches.
Great comparison video Shane. I especially like how towards the end you compared to your previous scoring method. As you went thru each category I did my own guess and though my raw scores were different my differentials were almost spot on for each category. I do love the style of both divers but they are night and day difference. If they were closer to the same price I would choose the Seiko for its better size and fit but that Orient is still amazing as a tool watch and I would choose it over any larger Seiko in the Marine Master family. You have two outstanding divers here!
I don't have any orient watches so I can't comment on those. Except for some older vintage Seiko, most of my seikos are JDM. No alignment issues or quality control. Seems like Seiko sells the good ones at home.
Shane - thanks for the effort on this. Like your message about, and illustration on how scoring systems are so squishy. Also appreciate the pics with different straps.
Thank you for a really well done video. Orient Star could be the best value for money line of watches out there. Saw a dress watch of theirs for around $400 (gray mkt) that was outstanding. I've owned an Orient for about a year that is very accurate and easy to love.
What a great video on 2 that I’m considering. Thank you! Love the comparison scoring model. It’s a fun way to go back and look at why one category or another scored well and adjust based on your personal preference.
Two very nice watches Shane. Excellent comparison. Taking the price out of the equation I would say the Seiko is better, but of course the price is part of the equation for many people and as the Orient has some great qualities that match the Seiko, and it's half the price, it's the way to go for someone who wants an ISO rated diver that looks very good.
Great video as always, I wouldn’t get either, been burned by Seiko QC before and the Orient looks cartoonish to me, especially the bezel and hands and dial
A really nice comparison video. They are a bit of a different category, but it was a great choice for a head to head. Seiko is a better watch, but I'd probably always choose the Orient Star.
Great stuff Shane, and thanks for the help with my purchase... I've gone for the green/gold 😊 couldn't resist this unique watch, I have a large collection of dive watches and struggled with choosing between the Squale 1545 Red and the Orient... Squale may be next time... Thanks again.
Both beautiful watches in my opinion. For sure the Orient offers more for its price, but the Seiko is really beautiful. This MM200 is on my wishlist even though I know that it is not the best value for money watch.
Great review!!! I love the amount of detail you go into and your videography especially macro shots are really good. I think the Seiko’s Glacier Dial looks good but everything else on the Seiko looks like a traditional Seiko Diver. If that dial was on a Baby Tuna, that would get my attention more. I was influenced to buy the Orient Star Diver Pepsi versión after your review of it and I have to say it is one of my favorite watches to wear. I loved it so much I bought the Navy Blue Limited Edition. The Pepsi Star Diver, Seiko Stainless Baby Tuna and Helm Blue/Orange Khuraburi with Blue Helm Rubber Strap are my top three I most often wear. I just find the Orient Pepsi more eye catching and unique, smooth to the touch. I get more people that will ask me about it than my other watches it’s that eye catching. IDK if my Seiko Baby Tuna and King Turtle has the same movement as the Marine Master Reduced but I find my Orient Movements on the divers lasting longer. The Orient Star Diver movements are very efficient too. My diver could be nearly spent and when I wear it for maybe half the day or so the reserve indicator is at full power. You do great quality reviews. Thanks for the strong work!!!
You could also check out the RE-AU0307E, which has no Pepsi bezel but comes with an awesome green dial and matching bezel. A proper stunner. Makes it a touch more versatile and sets you apart from the bus loads of elderly ladies snorkelling in the Great Barrier Reef, all sporting some Seiko diver given by their grandsons ;-) And for the money you'd spent on that Seiko you can get the RE-AU0602E New Diver 1964 2nd Ed. Matching green dial and bezel -quote- The green gradation on the dial is inspired by the Ryusendo Cave in Iwate Prefecture, Japan, thought by some to be the most beautiful and mysterious limestone cavern in the world. - unquote-. Eat that, Seiko!
If I still dived, I'd take the Orient. The Seiko is too pretty to be taken seriously as a tool watch but would be a great desk diver. In reality they're both too big for me.
hi Shane, you've become the real sage of the watch society. I'm a bit quirky, so by definition would go for the Orient :-) and thanks for the vids, you have your own style, imho it really shines through that you're just trying to be the best version of yourself and I really appreciate that, thanks man!
@@skzion2 so in some (not all) positions, the bezel is able to move back one position (only one) with enough force. Now from what I've heard some are better then others out there. With mine I really have to apply some force for it to pop back. And I think it's only ever other position it does this.
@@RelativeTime the Divers 1964 shares same movement with your OS but everything else is different, as in 1 step up. I think you'll enjoy reviewing it 😊
I have a thing for Pepsi bezel divers, so I love the look of this Orient. I purchased one about a year ago, but I found it too big for me. For reference, I have 6.75" wrist. On a strap it was too top heavy and it was wayyy too heavy for my preference on the bracelet. It was a beautiful watch, but I sent it back for a refund. If Orient made one in 39-41mm range, I'd purchase in a heartbeat!
Reading from other comments, believe it is important to differentiate between Orient and Orient Star as the quality between the two are quite significant...
I love that orient star, great design and brilliant value. The Seiko case is beautiful but I’m not too taken with the rest of it and the price is too high for what you’re getting. Great comparison .
Hi Shane. You do a great job comparing those watches. Still, something is missing. Each feature does not carry the same "weight" in the eye of the beholder. For instance, you may find the price very decisive, when some people could not care less about the price. Therefore, each score should be multiplied by a coefficient according to its importance.
I've thought about that in the past. As in could I figure out a perfect scoring system. Yet at the same time I didn't want to make it so complicated that people might have a hard time following. Maybe I'll think about it some more.
Well, I like small watches for casual and dress wear, so the whole concept of "dress diver" kinda flies over me, but this Seiko is really pretty. Orient Star though doesn't try to be something it isn't - it's a straightforward diving/sport/outdoors/travel watch with unique aesthetics that is functionally better in all usability aspects.
@@RelativeTime any recommendations? I've got some 1.5mm thickness bars. They look good but alot of rattle (I'm concerned about the lug holes wearing out). Would like your thoughts on it
@@saswineey I usually order some off Amazon. I think Barton makes them. Or some of the straps I used with it are quick release. I wouldn't worry too much about the lug holes wearing out. When it's strapped to your wrist that should help with some of the rattle.
lol. It's like comparing potato to a delicious meal when both can feed one but... Yes, the Orient Star Diver is so unique with it's ugliness that I wouldn't wear it even if it is for 100 $.
Great vid as usual. Very thoughtfully considered on every aspect. The two areas I'd pick on more are the quality and value, although I do think you graded them fairly. The MM appears to be aligned, but I'm not sure there's a guarantee with seiko as this issue plagues their entire lineup until you spend well over $1000. Which brings me to the second topic. Value..the Seiko should be priced exactly the same as the Orient. Would we consider the Orient at double the price? Seiko in all respects is overpriced for what they're delivering. I have personally sworn off any new seikos until they at least catch up with the mid to top-tier microbrands. How would this seiko compare to say a Formex, Monta or something similar?
Factually, I completely agree with you, but somehow Seiko does have something magical. By chance I own a formex essence 39 and a Seiko sharp edge GMT; though they are completely different specwise; pricewise they are close. Is the formex the better built watch? It certainly feels like it-especially the bracelet. But something about this sharp edge is just *chef's kiss*, a quality I cannot accurately discern: is it the deep blue sunburst on the geometric hemp pattern? The salmon accents contrasting with said dial? is it the exquisite case finishing? No clue. Anyway, long story short: I started with microbrands, purely because of the value proposition (in all price segments) and uniqueness compared to the big brands. I then bought a King samurai manta ray to see what all the Seiko fuss is about-full expecting to dislike the trash tier bracelet-and well let us say that I am now looking at my third Seiko purchase and the King Samurai is still on its bracelet.
@anotherherodied I hear you. Seiko can make a serious dial. I just wish they'd address their quality. Aside from chronic alignment problems across their line, they use inferior finishing and poor design choices. I have the 150th anniversary MM300 (with the dark green dial) and it's clearly the best Seiko I've had. They made nearly all good choices...but for the bracelet. They used the 8R movement which is a Grand Seiko non-regulated movement, sapphire crystal, ceramic bezel insert, Diashield is perhaps my most favored feature of Seiko as it preserves the pristine look forever...but then we get to the bracelet. The bracelet on the surface, ticks all the boxes. It's finished nicely, tapered bracelet, design is carried from the watch to the bracelet, milled clasp, then we get to the on-the-fly extension. What in God's mind were they thinking when they designed this horrible feature? The extension is exactly the reason I chose the MM300 over the MM200 (IMO is visually more attractive with the Gilt hands). This extension is literally the worst attempt I've seen. It's made from stamped metal, when it's extended, you get to see all the ugly bits from the outside. It looks like the bracelet is coming apart when fully extended...and feels like it too. The best design feature (sarcasm) is that when you flex your arm/wrist too much, it auto-deploys..but doesn't retract. Perhaps their attempt at a Tudor Pelagos clasp? It's so bad, that I find myself not wearing the watch because of the bracelet. The King Samurai has all the good stuff too. I really like the line and have several (non-king) in my collection. The king is probably one of the best values seiko offers. I've been tempted many times to pick up the king, but then I look at all those misaligned dials and cheap choices Seiko makes in general. Then I look at the money I spent on my MM300 and in the end, I wear my RZE titanium scratch resistant, beautifully executed micro-brand (without an adjustable clasp) I spent $400 on over the $1800 MM300 every time.
@@markedfortime Man, sucks to hear! Especially at the price point of a MM300. I do hear rather lukewarm things about Grand Seiko bracelets too. Maybe bracelets is the one thing they should focus on ;) Any aftermarket options that can get you back to loving that MM300? Such a shame! Or do sell it and go for the MM200 instead. Nice to hear about the RZE btw, I have been interested in that brand for a while now, but never pulled the trigger because of... well... titanium :D
@anotherherodied yes...I should probably look for an aftermarket bracelet. I'm wearing my RZE right now. It is a fantastic watch and I can confirm the coating they apply to their titanium is excellent. I've abused this watch and once after a concrete incident, I didn't even want to look at the clasp..it is still like brand new! Super light weight and comfortable.
The only issue I'd take with the ranking is the bracelet on the Orient Star, since I don't appreciate false 3-link bracelets and pressed clasps, and it's embarrassing to see essentially the same quality bracelet on an Orient Star as on a $200 Kamasu.
This OS has one of the worst bracelet, I do agree with you! I have more than 30 OS, and unfortunately this OS 200m diver, just didn't cut it for me....
I choose the Orient, but I've never liked the Pepsi colors. Now if it's the dark green dial with black bezel and gold bordered hands and markers, it beats the Seiko hands down in the looks department.
Yeah... at the time it slipped my mind. Longer story with that, but its something others have suggested. So I did go out and buy one. Here is the review. Honestly I'm mixed on it. ruclips.net/video/dK3_g32_Cyo/видео.html At this point I'm still debating if I want to do another VS video with it. With either the Glacier or the 1964. Or if I'm just done with it, and sell it.
@@RelativeTime Just watched your review on the 1964 really good review. I just both a orient star re-hk0003b00b from the contemporary range. Gorgeous piece and excellent value at around $600 on jomas shop. Its one of the few orient stars that has the F7 movement which is regulated much tighter to +15-5secs. Also has a more decorative movement is very slim only 10.8mm thick, small second hand and 50 hour power reserve. Recommend you checking it out would be great to see you do a review on it and haven't seen any proper reviews on the piece, real diamond find. Out of interest with orient star I often think because people associate them with value when they increase prices all of a sudden "it's expensive for an orient " but yet Seiko and grand Seiko have been increasing there prices for years. Often think if the exact same watch came out with an omega badge on it for 5 or 10 times the price people would be saying good value
the seiko dial is beautiful but I've had bad luck with Seiko lately in terms of quality, I've pretty much sworn off Seiko. Plus, I hate the fact that Seiko only uses sapphire crystal on their expensive ones. Seiko just isn't a brand I can count on anymore for quality construction. I can count on Orient.
I agree... Seiko needs to get off their ass and fix their QC. Otherwise, they will eventually lose the enthusiast market. I mean if they can't guarantee the quality of a $1000 watch, why would I trust them enough to ever buy a Grand Seiko.
En la comparacion de valor, es lo mas controversial, ... un reloj subvaluado en precio versus un reloj en su gama de precio. Aun asi, pienso que gana el SEIKO en una generalidad, pero no soy muy objetivo (me gusta SEIKO, pero no quita que el Orient Star sea un competidor muy serio que incline la balanza por el precio).
it's a bit provocative I know, but how comfortable or well built your watch may be, if it's an ugly watch, it's an ugly watch. See where I'm going there??
Shane, I always love your reviews but the last two I saw, you seem to think that casually bringing a big goofy coffee mug into frame some how adds to the review. Nope. Keep up the good work!
I'll keep that in mind. Not doing it intentionaly, but I have found that sometimes if I'm doing something with my hands I tend to be more relaxed and I think that helps the overall flow when recording. Or at least if I'm having an off day, or having trouble saying a paticular part.
@@RelativeTime I find that you are perfectly articulate over the last few years that I've followed you. Just a recent aberration I guess...Love your work brother!
Where Seiko will consistently outshine Orient and Citizen is in aesthetics. Seiko's dial work is incredible, and their case design and finishing aren't far behind. Where Seiko falters is in the area of movements offered relative to price. Anecdotally, the consensus on 6R movements isn't great, and there are many reports of accuracy well outside standard deviations established by Seiko. I recently picked up the blue dial variant of the Orient Star Outdoor, enjoyed it for about a week, and then watched the crown pop right off when unscrewing it to hack the time one morning. Apparently, this is an issue with Orient across the brand range, and servicing is also problematic. Citizen offers comparatively better quality control and entry-level movements, along with either fairly vanilla or outright grotesque designs.
I like the old scoring better. My DressKX loom lasts through the night just fine, so the 7 point difference in loom isn't that big of a deal to me but is alone enough to flip the result. Also the relative ratings matter in the new system. So, it's important that you objectively spread the scores across all possible watches instead of just these two watches to keep the scoring objective. Was the loom on the seiko really a 3 compared to all other watches? Anyway, it's fun to see who wins in these comparisons, but the important information is how you got those results. And what's great is that we all got two reviews in one out of it. Thanks so much for the great content!
I think you are biased against the Orient. Some food for thought ... 1. Does the Seiko Bezel align properly at 12 o'clock? 2. Since you used a limited edition Seiko STO then perhaps you should compare it against the Orient LE RE-AU0307E instead. 😂
I'm traveling so hard to double check. But isn't that just the green version of this Pepsi? I think it's listed just above it on orient Japan's site. O and the Seiko is close to be fully aligned. It might be off by a degree, but you have to look close to see.
No comparison. This seiko is so superior to this Orient. I would say this seiko spb299 should have been compared to something in the Hamilton/Mido range, perhaps longines.
I love the Seiko aesthetic, but their Samurai, Turtle and similar watches are the highest end I'd pick up from them. I think after those everything Seiko is drastically overpriced for what you get with mediocre quality control etc.
Great review! I think if you want a good tool watch the Orient is the better choice. Real value. Would I buy it? No. I have too many divers already. I like that Seiko. The textured dial is a trickle down from the GS white and black birch watches. The blue dial is stunning! Seiko also nails the cases. For a mass produced watch their cases are very well done. The 6r movement? Accuracy is all over the map. I have some that are very good......others not very. Think for $1000 it is only ok value. Would I buy it? Yes. To me it would be like buying a SARX057/55. Just needs a better motor to be close to GS. All said. I want the white dial Willard!
I think the best point you made was how the Seiko was a better watch, but not by much - and certainly not by a margin which justifies an RRP double that of the Orient. As much as I love Seiko as a brand, for its history and design language, there are many days when I agonise over whether its current lineup of watches are good value for money. There are simply too many other brands, micro or otherwise, snapping at Seiko's heels.
Orient handset and indices might have bead blasted finish. Or powder-coated, as you've put it. Definitely not just brushed or polished. Beautiful choice for a tool watch. Too bad I personally don't find the shape of those hands appealing.
Can not live with the orient power reserve gauge or the unbalanced hands......still the star logo is better than the standard logo...i think the basic otient divers are more aesthetically pleasing.
Shame Seiko didn’t use a bezel to compliment the gorgeous dial, a steel bezel would have looked better with black numbers or even a colour matched bezel to the dial, or a white and blue bezel Not a fan of Pepsi or power reserves so the Seiko wins Great video 🙏
Everyone would come up with different scoring i suppose, but i picked Orient Star right before the comparison began 🤭. I'm just bored with the Seiko's design. Since you mentioned that this was Orient's best diver, I just wonder if you have came across the Orient Star Diver 1964 new edition? It's my new favourite must-own Orient Star now 😁: ruclips.net/video/N9HWhUfeTnQ/видео.html
Seen it online, but not in person. I'll have to look into it more, but at first glance, it looks like it's just the regular diver with a different dial and handset. Some have said there are more improvements, but I'll have to look into it more to see if there really are.
I think they are related, but not necessarily the same. Like a nice dress watch is very wearable, but not necessarily as usable compared to a field watch. Although like I say at the end. I think the value in comparison videos are more in the discussion of the differences than any specific score.
I would take the Orient over the Seiko but the weight is a non-starter for me my sweet spot is 120=140grams and of course those friction claps are not for me!
![The Best Premium Diver You've Never Heard Of. Orient Star RE-AU0306L [Review] [JDM]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YSqXiJ2v5T4/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Best Premium Diver You've Never Heard Of. Orient Star RE-AU0306L [Review] [JDM]](/img/tr.png)
![Seiko Glacier Marine Master Reduced: Almost Perfect! SBDC167 / SPB299 [ SBDC167J1 / SPB299J1] MM200](/img/1.gif)
Thanks Shane! This review pushed me over the edge and I pulled the trigger on the Seiko. That dial is special.
The Seiko's designs are just more appealing to me. I've got an mm reduced, & a Willard and for me they are great value - I love their hard coating, wish my Seamaster had it!
Interesting video, thank you 👍🏻👍🏻
Great comparison video. I have an Orient blue Triton with power reserve, hands down one of my best divers. I also have three Seiko’s automatic, kinetic, and solar which I love all three. It’s very hard to compare incredible watches.
Great comparison video Shane. I especially like how towards the end you compared to your previous scoring method. As you went thru each category I did my own guess and though my raw scores were different my differentials were almost spot on for each category. I do love the style of both divers but they are night and day difference. If they were closer to the same price I would choose the Seiko for its better size and fit but that Orient is still amazing as a tool watch and I would choose it over any larger Seiko in the Marine Master family. You have two outstanding divers here!
At least Orient Star doesn't have misalignment and QC issues.
Sadly I've seen a few Orients with alignment issues
@@allegedkurd Orient or Orient Star ?
@@laurentlefellic Both, sadly. Moreso Orient, obviously, since both my M-Force and Kamasu had issues.
It adds character!!
I don't have any orient watches so I can't comment on those. Except for some older vintage Seiko, most of my seikos are JDM. No alignment issues or quality control. Seems like Seiko sells the good ones at home.
Shane - thanks for the effort on this. Like your message about, and illustration on how scoring systems are so squishy. Also appreciate the pics with different straps.
Thank you for a really well done video. Orient Star could be the best value for money line of watches out there. Saw a dress watch of theirs for around $400 (gray mkt) that was outstanding. I've owned an Orient for about a year that is very accurate and easy to love.
What a great video on 2 that I’m considering. Thank you! Love the comparison scoring model. It’s a fun way to go back and look at why one category or another scored well and adjust based on your personal preference.
Two very nice watches Shane. Excellent comparison. Taking the price out of the equation I would say the Seiko is better, but of course the price is part of the equation for many people and as the Orient has some great qualities that match the Seiko, and it's half the price, it's the way to go for someone who wants an ISO rated diver that looks very good.
Great video as always, I wouldn’t get either, been burned by Seiko QC before and the Orient looks cartoonish to me, especially the bezel and hands and dial
A really nice comparison video. They are a bit of a different category, but it was a great choice for a head to head. Seiko is a better watch, but I'd probably always choose the Orient Star.
Great stuff Shane, and thanks for the help with my purchase... I've gone for the green/gold 😊 couldn't resist this unique watch, I have a large collection of dive watches and struggled with choosing between the Squale 1545 Red and the Orient... Squale may be next time... Thanks again.
That Squale looks awesome. I keep debating if I should try them at some point.
Both beautiful watches in my opinion. For sure the Orient offers more for its price, but the Seiko is really beautiful. This MM200 is on my wishlist even though I know that it is not the best value for money watch.
Great review!!! I love the amount of detail you go into and your videography especially macro shots are really good. I think the Seiko’s Glacier Dial looks good but everything else on the Seiko looks like a traditional Seiko Diver. If that dial was on a Baby Tuna, that would get my attention more. I was influenced to buy the Orient Star Diver Pepsi versión after your review of it and I have to say it is one of my favorite watches to wear. I loved it so much I bought the Navy Blue Limited Edition. The Pepsi Star Diver, Seiko Stainless Baby Tuna and Helm Blue/Orange Khuraburi with Blue Helm Rubber Strap are my top three I most often wear. I just find the Orient Pepsi more eye catching and unique, smooth to the touch. I get more people that will ask me about it than my other watches it’s that eye catching. IDK if my Seiko Baby Tuna and King Turtle has the same movement as the Marine Master Reduced but I find my Orient Movements on the divers lasting longer. The Orient Star Diver movements are very efficient too. My diver could be nearly spent and when I wear it for maybe half the day or so the reserve indicator is at full power.
You do great quality reviews. Thanks for the strong work!!!
You could also check out the RE-AU0307E, which has no Pepsi bezel but comes with an awesome green dial and matching bezel. A proper stunner. Makes it a touch more versatile and sets you apart from the bus loads of elderly ladies snorkelling in the Great Barrier Reef, all sporting some Seiko diver given by their grandsons ;-) And for the money you'd spent on that Seiko you can get the RE-AU0602E New Diver 1964 2nd Ed. Matching green dial and bezel -quote- The green gradation on the dial is inspired by the Ryusendo Cave in Iwate Prefecture, Japan, thought by some to be the most beautiful and mysterious limestone cavern in the world. - unquote-. Eat that, Seiko!
If I still dived, I'd take the Orient. The Seiko is too pretty to be taken seriously as a tool watch but would be a great desk diver. In reality they're both too big for me.
Excellent benchmarking made on two excellent and awesome watches. Good job Shane, as usual.
hi Shane, you've become the real sage of the watch society. I'm a bit quirky, so by definition would go for the Orient :-) and thanks for the vids, you have your own style, imho it really shines through that you're just trying to be the best version of yourself and I really appreciate that, thanks man!
great video
It is an amazing watch. I bought it as a thin watch for $500. Amazing. I did not expect the watch to be $500. Its specifications are strong.
Absolutely agree. Great comparison!
I go with Orient Star, having limited version already 2 years, perfect one
Great review, enjoyed the summing up. Both fine looking pieces. My wallet likes the Orient and I tend to pay attention to that...
I believe comparing those watches with WISE, Adamascus or especially Hitman, it would be interesting.
Shane did you have your OS bezel fixed as there was a global recall....
No, I didn't think it was a serious enough issue to send it back. Then I forgot about it.
Could you tell me about this recall?
@@skzion2 so in some (not all) positions, the bezel is able to move back one position (only one) with enough force.
Now from what I've heard some are better then others out there. With mine I really have to apply some force for it to pop back. And I think it's only ever other position it does this.
@@RelativeTime Thanks so much for this crazily speedy reply in the dead of night.
@@RelativeTime here in Singapore, it was done quite smoothly by the AD...
I think it will be interesting to compare the Seiko with Orient Star Divers 1964 model. They're closer in size, pricing and character.
I'll take a look at them again. At first glance I thought they were about the same as the current divers with a different handset.
@@RelativeTime the Divers 1964 shares same movement with your OS but everything else is different, as in 1 step up. I think you'll enjoy reviewing it 😊
Totally agree the 1964 is around $1000 also so much closer in terms of price. The dial on the 1964 is stunning! Much more attractive watch imo
Amazing review, thanks!
I have a thing for Pepsi bezel divers, so I love the look of this Orient. I purchased one about a year ago, but I found it too big for me. For reference, I have 6.75" wrist. On a strap it was too top heavy and it was wayyy too heavy for my preference on the bracelet. It was a beautiful watch, but I sent it back for a refund. If Orient made one in 39-41mm range, I'd purchase in a heartbeat!
I just bought the Orient, and I loooove it
Very interesting comparison , while I really like the Seiko, I love the dial, hands and bezel of the Orient. Considering price I would buy the Orient.
I have that Orient Star, the limited edition version, absolute winner 🏆
Reading from other comments, believe it is important to differentiate between Orient and Orient Star as the quality between the two are quite significant...
I almost bought the Green'Gold Orient Star, but couldn't get over the power-reserve indicator.😫
I love that orient star, great design and brilliant value. The Seiko case is beautiful but I’m not too taken with the rest of it and the price is too high for what you’re getting. Great comparison .
Shane, You were more than Fair. Another great review.
I would like to see a comparison between the MM200 and the MM300. I think the MM300 has a greater jump in value than the Orient Star to the MM200.
Compare Orient Star vs. Seiko Sumo IIIg.
Eu comprei o Orient star diver azul.
Tenho varios seikos, este Orient é realmente uma grande peça por muito menos que os seikos.
Have an Orient Star Diver. LOVE it! Want to put it on a great nylon strap. Artem only has 20 mm. Any suggestions?
What kind of strap? Barton has some great hybrid and sailcloth straps.
@@RelativeTime Thanks Shane. I will check them out.
Hi Shane. You do a great job comparing those watches. Still, something is missing. Each feature does not carry the same "weight" in the eye of the beholder. For instance, you may find the price very decisive, when some people could not care less about the price. Therefore, each score should be multiplied by a coefficient according to its importance.
I've thought about that in the past. As in could I figure out a perfect scoring system. Yet at the same time I didn't want to make it so complicated that people might have a hard time following.
Maybe I'll think about it some more.
Well, I like small watches for casual and dress wear, so the whole concept of "dress diver" kinda flies over me, but this Seiko is really pretty. Orient Star though doesn't try to be something it isn't - it's a straightforward diving/sport/outdoors/travel watch with unique aesthetics that is functionally better in all usability aspects.
Oddly enough, I HAVE been trying to decide between the two of them! lol Thanks for the vid! It really helped!
You are that guy!!!
I have the green version of the Orient Star. The watch is spectacular but the caliber is not because it goes to +18s/d. I am a bit disappointed.
I think this was very accurate. You're getting this down to a science! 😺
How do you find the seiko with other straps? I can't use the original springbars as they're too thick
I have other springbars that I use if I need.
@@RelativeTime any recommendations? I've got some 1.5mm thickness bars. They look good but alot of rattle (I'm concerned about the lug holes wearing out). Would like your thoughts on it
@@saswineey I usually order some off Amazon. I think Barton makes them. Or some of the straps I used with it are quick release. I wouldn't worry too much about the lug holes wearing out. When it's strapped to your wrist that should help with some of the rattle.
lol. It's like comparing potato to a delicious meal when both can feed one but... Yes, the Orient Star Diver is so unique with it's ugliness that I wouldn't wear it even if it is for 100 $.
Good stuff Brian
I would love to see how your new Orient Star 1964 2nd Edition stacks up against these two.
I'll make sure to compare them directly.
Great vid as usual. Very thoughtfully considered on every aspect. The two areas I'd pick on more are the quality and value, although I do think you graded them fairly. The MM appears to be aligned, but I'm not sure there's a guarantee with seiko as this issue plagues their entire lineup until you spend well over $1000. Which brings me to the second topic. Value..the Seiko should be priced exactly the same as the Orient. Would we consider the Orient at double the price? Seiko in all respects is overpriced for what they're delivering. I have personally sworn off any new seikos until they at least catch up with the mid to top-tier microbrands. How would this seiko compare to say a Formex, Monta or something similar?
Factually, I completely agree with you, but somehow Seiko does have something magical. By chance I own a formex essence 39 and a Seiko sharp edge GMT; though they are completely different specwise; pricewise they are close. Is the formex the better built watch? It certainly feels like it-especially the bracelet. But something about this sharp edge is just *chef's kiss*, a quality I cannot accurately discern: is it the deep blue sunburst on the geometric hemp pattern? The salmon accents contrasting with said dial? is it the exquisite case finishing? No clue.
Anyway, long story short: I started with microbrands, purely because of the value proposition (in all price segments) and uniqueness compared to the big brands. I then bought a King samurai manta ray to see what all the Seiko fuss is about-full expecting to dislike the trash tier bracelet-and well let us say that I am now looking at my third Seiko purchase and the King Samurai is still on its bracelet.
@anotherherodied I hear you. Seiko can make a serious dial. I just wish they'd address their quality. Aside from chronic alignment problems across their line, they use inferior finishing and poor design choices. I have the 150th anniversary MM300 (with the dark green dial) and it's clearly the best Seiko I've had. They made nearly all good choices...but for the bracelet. They used the 8R movement which is a Grand Seiko non-regulated movement, sapphire crystal, ceramic bezel insert, Diashield is perhaps my most favored feature of Seiko as it preserves the pristine look forever...but then we get to the bracelet.
The bracelet on the surface, ticks all the boxes. It's finished nicely, tapered bracelet, design is carried from the watch to the bracelet, milled clasp, then we get to the on-the-fly extension.
What in God's mind were they thinking when they designed this horrible feature? The extension is exactly the reason I chose the MM300 over the MM200 (IMO is visually more attractive with the Gilt hands). This extension is literally the worst attempt I've seen. It's made from stamped metal, when it's extended, you get to see all the ugly bits from the outside. It looks like the bracelet is coming apart when fully extended...and feels like it too. The best design feature (sarcasm) is that when you flex your arm/wrist too much, it auto-deploys..but doesn't retract. Perhaps their attempt at a Tudor Pelagos clasp? It's so bad, that I find myself not wearing the watch because of the bracelet.
The King Samurai has all the good stuff too. I really like the line and have several (non-king) in my collection. The king is probably one of the best values seiko offers. I've been tempted many times to pick up the king, but then I look at all those misaligned dials and cheap choices Seiko makes in general. Then I look at the money I spent on my MM300 and in the end, I wear my RZE titanium scratch resistant, beautifully executed micro-brand (without an adjustable clasp) I spent $400 on over the $1800 MM300 every time.
@@markedfortime Man, sucks to hear! Especially at the price point of a MM300. I do hear rather lukewarm things about Grand Seiko bracelets too. Maybe bracelets is the one thing they should focus on ;)
Any aftermarket options that can get you back to loving that MM300? Such a shame!
Or do sell it and go for the MM200 instead.
Nice to hear about the RZE btw, I have been interested in that brand for a while now, but never pulled the trigger because of... well... titanium :D
@anotherherodied yes...I should probably look for an aftermarket bracelet. I'm wearing my RZE right now. It is a fantastic watch and I can confirm the coating they apply to their titanium is excellent. I've abused this watch and once after a concrete incident, I didn't even want to look at the clasp..it is still like brand new! Super light weight and comfortable.
The only issue I'd take with the ranking is the bracelet on the Orient Star, since I don't appreciate false 3-link bracelets and pressed clasps, and it's embarrassing to see essentially the same quality bracelet on an Orient Star as on a $200 Kamasu.
This OS has one of the worst bracelet, I do agree with you! I have more than 30 OS, and unfortunately this OS 200m diver, just didn't cut it for me....
@@jeonglee657 I heard that some aftermarket bracelets designed for other Orients will fit.
I could almost buy the Seiko on the Glacier dial alone.
Great video👍
I choose the Orient, but I've never liked the Pepsi colors. Now if it's the dark green dial with black bezel and gold bordered hands and markers, it beats the Seiko hands down in the looks department.
You should have compared the orient star 1964 diver that's the best they have in this category
Yeah... at the time it slipped my mind. Longer story with that, but its something others have suggested. So I did go out and buy one. Here is the review. Honestly I'm mixed on it.
ruclips.net/video/dK3_g32_Cyo/видео.html
At this point I'm still debating if I want to do another VS video with it. With either the Glacier or the 1964. Or if I'm just done with it, and sell it.
@@RelativeTime
Just watched your review on the 1964 really good review.
I just both a orient star re-hk0003b00b from the contemporary range.
Gorgeous piece and excellent value at around $600 on jomas shop. Its one of the few orient stars that has the F7 movement which is regulated much tighter to +15-5secs. Also has a more decorative movement is very slim only 10.8mm thick, small second hand and 50 hour power reserve. Recommend you checking it out would be great to see you do a review on it and haven't seen any proper reviews on the piece, real diamond find.
Out of interest with orient star I often think because people associate them with value when they increase prices all of a sudden "it's expensive for an orient " but yet Seiko and grand Seiko have been increasing there prices for years. Often think if the exact same watch came out with an omega badge on it for 5 or 10 times the price people would be saying good value
Lume tipped the scale here. I think you've ultimately concluded it is better to own both than just one.
Not all categories are created equal
the seiko dial is beautiful but I've had bad luck with Seiko lately in terms of quality, I've pretty much sworn off Seiko. Plus, I hate the fact that Seiko only uses sapphire crystal on their expensive ones. Seiko just isn't a brand I can count on anymore for quality construction. I can count on Orient.
I agree... Seiko needs to get off their ass and fix their QC. Otherwise, they will eventually lose the enthusiast market. I mean if they can't guarantee the quality of a $1000 watch, why would I trust them enough to ever buy a Grand Seiko.
En la comparacion de valor, es lo mas controversial, ... un reloj subvaluado en precio versus un reloj en su gama de precio. Aun asi, pienso que gana el SEIKO en una generalidad, pero no soy muy objetivo (me gusta SEIKO, pero no quita que el Orient Star sea un competidor muy serio que incline la balanza por el precio).
it's a bit provocative I know, but how comfortable or well built your watch may be, if it's an ugly watch, it's an ugly watch. See where I'm going there??
I prefer the orient just looks better all around.prefer ot on the black rubber strap.and the price is better.
Shane, I always love your reviews but the last two I saw, you seem to think that casually bringing a big goofy coffee mug into frame some how adds to the review. Nope. Keep up the good work!
I'll keep that in mind. Not doing it intentionaly, but I have found that sometimes if I'm doing something with my hands I tend to be more relaxed and I think that helps the overall flow when recording. Or at least if I'm having an off day, or having trouble saying a paticular part.
@@RelativeTime I find that you are perfectly articulate over the last few years that I've followed you. Just a recent aberration I guess...Love your work brother!
Where Seiko will consistently outshine Orient and Citizen is in aesthetics. Seiko's dial work is incredible, and their case design and finishing aren't far behind. Where Seiko falters is in the area of movements offered relative to price. Anecdotally, the consensus on 6R movements isn't great, and there are many reports of accuracy well outside standard deviations established by Seiko. I recently picked up the blue dial variant of the Orient Star Outdoor, enjoyed it for about a week, and then watched the crown pop right off when unscrewing it to hack the time one morning. Apparently, this is an issue with Orient across the brand range, and servicing is also problematic. Citizen offers comparatively better quality control and entry-level movements, along with either fairly vanilla or outright grotesque designs.
Hi Shane, have you ever thought about reviewing the Certina Super PH 500m.
I think you'll be impressed.
There is no contest in looks, finishing or bracelet. The Seiko is easily worth double the price
I like the old scoring better. My DressKX loom lasts through the night just fine, so the 7 point difference in loom isn't that big of a deal to me but is alone enough to flip the result.
Also the relative ratings matter in the new system. So, it's important that you objectively spread the scores across all possible watches instead of just these two watches to keep the scoring objective. Was the loom on the seiko really a 3 compared to all other watches?
Anyway, it's fun to see who wins in these comparisons, but the important information is how you got those results. And what's great is that we all got two reviews in one out of it. Thanks so much for the great content!
I think you are biased against the Orient. Some food for thought ... 1. Does the Seiko Bezel align properly at 12 o'clock? 2. Since you used a limited edition Seiko STO then perhaps you should compare it against the Orient LE RE-AU0307E instead. 😂
I'm traveling so hard to double check. But isn't that just the green version of this Pepsi?
I think it's listed just above it on orient Japan's site.
O and the Seiko is close to be fully aligned. It might be off by a degree, but you have to look close to see.
@@RelativeTime yes the green dial one is arguably the most popular one in this series. 😁
The green one is really striking. Is that the one Jody covered? I'm usually not a Pepsi guy, but I love the color scheme on this one.
@@RelativeTime Yes it is. 😀
For me no one i like...but if you give one free i choice orient...for me seiko never good review like always
No comparison. This seiko is so superior to this Orient. I would say this seiko spb299 should have been compared to something in the Hamilton/Mido range, perhaps longines.
I love the Seiko aesthetic, but their Samurai, Turtle and similar watches are the highest end I'd pick up from them.
I think after those everything Seiko is drastically overpriced for what you get with mediocre quality control etc.
Hells Bells, get'em both!?🤔😂
Sounds like a plan!
i will pick the orient for the LUME!😘
Either way, Seiko wins and makes the money since they own Orient.
Great review! I think if you want a good tool watch the Orient is the better choice. Real value. Would I buy it? No. I have too many divers already.
I like that Seiko. The textured dial is a trickle down from the GS white and black birch watches. The blue dial is stunning! Seiko also nails the cases. For a mass produced watch their cases are very well done. The 6r movement? Accuracy is all over the map. I have some that are very good......others not very. Think for $1000 it is only ok value. Would I buy it? Yes. To me it would be like buying a SARX057/55. Just needs a better motor to be close to GS.
All said. I want the white dial Willard!
The Willard looks pretty good too. I was tempted, but ultimately wanted to go with a smaller case.
I think the best point you made was how the Seiko was a better watch, but not by much - and certainly not by a margin which justifies an RRP double that of the Orient.
As much as I love Seiko as a brand, for its history and design language, there are many days when I agonise over whether its current lineup of watches are good value for money.
There are simply too many other brands, micro or otherwise, snapping at Seiko's heels.
Orient handset and indices might have bead blasted finish. Or powder-coated, as you've put it. Definitely not just brushed or polished. Beautiful choice for a tool watch.
Too bad I personally don't find the shape of those hands appealing.
Can not live with the orient power reserve gauge or the unbalanced hands......still the star logo is better than the standard logo...i think the basic otient divers are more aesthetically pleasing.
you sound like patrick bateman while narrating
Would you like to see my Business cards?
I didn't expect orient had better lume. Good review anyway
BTW... The bezel of the MM is titanium oxide coated stainless steel.
Winner, winner, Chicken dinner? 😆
Exactly!
Shame Seiko didn’t use a bezel to compliment the gorgeous dial, a steel bezel would have looked better with black numbers or even a colour matched bezel to the dial, or a white and blue bezel
Not a fan of Pepsi or power reserves so the Seiko wins
Great video 🙏
First comment! Great video
Everyone would come up with different scoring i suppose, but i picked Orient Star right before the comparison began 🤭. I'm just bored with the Seiko's design.
Since you mentioned that this was Orient's best diver, I just wonder if you have came across the Orient Star Diver 1964 new edition? It's my new favourite must-own Orient Star now 😁:
ruclips.net/video/N9HWhUfeTnQ/видео.html
Seen it online, but not in person. I'll have to look into it more, but at first glance, it looks like it's just the regular diver with a different dial and handset.
Some have said there are more improvements, but I'll have to look into it more to see if there really are.
Nice vid... but that is not the best that Orient Star has to offer from a diver catalogue. Pick your words more wisely...
Working on it.
ruclips.net/video/Zmnml_FfaTY/видео.html
@@RelativeTime That's the one ;)
A broken sundial could beat a modern seiko...
Usability and wearability are the same things. I think you short-changed Seiko a little bit bra.
I think they are related, but not necessarily the same. Like a nice dress watch is very wearable, but not necessarily as usable compared to a field watch.
Although like I say at the end. I think the value in comparison videos are more in the discussion of the differences than any specific score.
@Relative Time you definitely put Orient Star on my radar. They have some really nice stuff.
I would take the Orient over the Seiko but the weight is a non-starter for me my sweet spot is 120=140grams and of course those friction claps are not for me!
if it ain't misaligned
it ain't a Seiko
It's how you tell it's real. 😎
true indeed
ORIENT IS SO MUCH BETTER
Compared to German watches these look like design toys.
AnyGerman watch in particular you are thinking about?