Episode 4 - Another Death | FT
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- Опубликовано: 12 фев 2024
- Madison Marriage hears of another death, one that happened five years before Jacqui’s. Was the Goenka network aware of the dangers of intensive meditation? Marriage asks what the organisation is doing, if anything, to protect people from harm.
For support or more information about adverse meditation experiences, take a look at the Cheetah House website (www.cheetahhouse.org).
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I had a similar experience a couple years ago when I took Transcendental Meditation. Fortunately I have the kind of personality that said "screw this" and stopped, but I did go through the five worst days of my life.
At the risk of sounding arrogant I believe I have learned something that may answer both the questions of what happened to the girls and why this organization, and all others involved in meditation, will not address their failings. While I enjoyed the podcast and certainly see valid causes that added to the tragedies such as sleep deprivation, I believe the most important issue was missed.
"You get what you concentrate upon" (Seth material).
I think we are all aware of the power of the mind, placebo effect biometric feedback etc., are but a few examples.
We would expect a child who's been continually belittled and berated by his parents to grow up to have insecurities and possible suicidal thoughts. What would happen to a person if these ideas are presented by the self to the self in powerful concentrated form over hours and hours. Put someone into a situation in which they're basically asked to highlight to themselves over and over they're unworthiness. Even if it's wrapped in the package of identifying certain physical parts of your body and looking to remove "impurities"
What we are talking about here is the power of the mind to create the image and the beliefs that it's being fed. The core of the problem doesn't rest with this particular organizations it doesn't even rest totally with the idea of meditation or eastern mysticism. It rests in a very powerful prevalent belief that invade all religions. That the flesh is inherently evil, bad, wrong and needs to be eradicated.
This can only be countered by refusing to believe in that statement and believing in the inherent goodness of us all. Asking this organization to admit to its faults is like asking the Catholic Church to admit to the errors in its theology. I believe what I said can be somewhat supported and hinted at when we take a look at what the girls said when they were in psychosis. "I'm killing the universe", "I have done something horribly wrong". These are not words of somebody who simply spent time quietly in their mind. They come from a set of beliefs that are being reinforced over and over and over.
I believe the best approach for those suffering with this is to spend 10 or 15 minutes a day in positive affirmation of their own worth. This needs to be supported with people around them reinforcing that worth.
My heart goes out to those families that have been impacted by this. I say to them what I wish I could say to the girls. If you look within, without the thoughts and words of others, you will find the true goodness and the true peace that you are worthy of. That goodness and peace that the girls now enjoy.
Interesting, thanks for this documentary. I did not know of the potential dangers of meditation, esp. with inconsiderate mentors.
I knew Jaqui personally and saw her the day before she left Ontario to drive out to B.C. she tattooed me and we had a conversation about mental health, from both of our perspectives. I am not going into detail here, but, Jaqui told me something that day which she indicated that she had NEVER admitted to anyone else prior to then. this was on March 8, 2021.
after listening to this entire series and knowing more details about these circumstances - details I was not aware of before this - I am now left wondering if her admission to was a factor in what ended up happening. there are some eerie similarities between Jaqui and Megan's stories in particular and, to make a long story short, I am beginning to see the trappings of cult-recruitment underneath the facade of these retreats. I think there is more to this organization than anyone realizes.
I had only known Jaqui for about 3 months prior to the above-mentioned date. despite what she confided in me, we actually did not know each other overly well. we had mainly bonded over tattooing, as I am a heavily tattooed person and was interested in her designs, which I had discovered when she rented my facility for an evening to conduct a fundraising event. she was a versatile young woman with extreme amounts of both aptitude and ambition, which is why her admission to me on March 8 came as the shock that it did. I bring this up to point out that, while I did have a personal connection with her, it was not particularly intense or long-lasting. despite my obvious sadness about this whole situation, it did not cause me anywhere near the same levels of grief that it caused her family. since grief was much less of a factor in my case, it's easier for me than it might be for others to separate logic from emotion here.
bottom line: logic is telling me that there is a lot mo0re to this story, yet to be uncovered.
I understand and appreciate that you're keeping Jacqui's admission confidential. I'm also so curious about your implications. Is there anything that you can share in relation to the inner workings of the organization that wouldn't disrespect Jacqui's confidentiality?
@@SiennaScheid without breaking confidence, I can for certain say that, if Jaqui told these people the same thing she told me, they most likely used it to manipulate her in a manner similar to what they pulled with Megan.
in fact, while still skirting the specifics, I can say for certain that Jaqui bent the truth quite significantly on her intake application... she wasn't outright lying, but some of the things she indicated as being "behind" her, were anything but.
I don't say this to disparage her, but what she claimed in those emails when she applied, does not line up at all with what she told me.
after (and since) hearing what happened to Megan, I've had a chilling feeling that the truth was somehow coaxed from Jaqui during the first few days of her retreat; and subsequently used against her as a manipulation tactic, convincing her to leave "of her own volition" and... you can probably piece it together from there.
Telling a mentally fragile individual, at their most raw and vulnerable moment, that their actions are going to cause the death of the universe??? Call me crazy, but that sounds more like something the CIA might have cooked up during MK-Ultra, than it does something I'd expect to hear at a "meditation retreat"
How didn't she consent?
Who would consent to having their mind ripped apart?
Like any other practice, be it Hot Bikram yoga training, or 10 day water fast, or working time in ashram, to name just a few that makes your mind and body stronger, Vipassana is a challenging 10 day course.
You engage into them gradually and consciously throughout your life, growing and strengthening in the process.
Many young people nowadays lack emotional strength and resilience, expecting instant gratifications from whatever they lay eyes on. And we, as parents, are mostly at fault for it "loving too much."
To me, it seems that girls were not quite stable in their minds with what they wanted from life, and decided to try yet another "popular thing." The fact that it's completely free also draws some people ...
You have to be your own person knowing who you are and what you want when you decide to undertake any spiritual practice. Otherwise, too much of too good for unprepared mind and body could be too bad. I have seen people stepping into a path of healthy lifestyle going too far and becoming fanatical, turning into anorexia (also mental illness) or cult.
Vipassana meditation is an exploration of your own mind. You are in silence for 10 days (again, most people find it difficult in a superficial chatty world). You don't have to start at 4 am. The first mandatory sitting is after breakfast for 1.5 hours. For me, the challenging part was listening to the monotonous repetitive talks of Dr. Goenka. You don't have to sit cross-legged. Many people ask for chairs or meditation stool. They instruct not to bring any books or writing pads. Knowing myself, I can't be without a book. So, in my free time, I was writing prolifically and reading 📚
The food was healthy and in abundance, too much, IMO. No dinner, just fruit, but after a big lunch, it was ok. I don't think anyone was hungry there. Few people with medical conditions (one pregnant lady at 37 weeks!) did have dinner daily.
I had on overall a good experience, even though at times I felt like leaving, on day 3 and day 8, simply because I felt that I am wasting my time sitting for so long and doing nothing, while so many things were left unfinished at home.
The overly strict atmosphere is a turn off. Some times it felt like in a prison and volunteer assistant teachers like superintendents.
At the end, I have enjoyed the peacefulness and calmness of my mind and the entire state of being I achieved. I did put a list of suggestions to make changes in a schedule, eg. Wake up time 5 am, gentle stretching session, and then morning meditation, going to bed at 9. I personally did my yoga in a public decking, no one told me off, even though it was not "allowed".
Its a difficult 10 day challenge and i would not recommend it to the unprepared novices.
Only advanced practitioners would be qualified to tell students about the preparation needed for such intensive level of meditation work. The contradictions of these practices with people who suffer from certain chronic behavioral/mental disorders has been regularly documented for over 30 years; it is only a segment of that population, yes, but it is enough that a sober person truly invested in helping others would make sure to vet and be prepared to lovingly redirect or discourage.
We do not blame people for developing cancer or catching the flu, and yet there is an incessant tone of victim-blaming that occurs in alternative health circles when interested parties are not able to stick the landing of enlightenment. The lives discussed and people interviewed in the series did not speak out to denigrate meditation as a practice; they are simply questioning the lack of safety protocols for those who experience negative outcomes. Nothing in this world works 100% for everyone -- learning from past mistakes can only make organized spiritual practices stronger. Or does the need to be superior to the fragility of the human condition pervade the very nature of devotional practice? It is a sad statement if true.