Stradivarius and Guarnerius Violins: Why Would Anyone Purposely Scratch, Dent, or "Distress" one?
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- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2023
- A detail added to perfection, or simply art at its highest level? Another secret of the masters that make Stradivarius and Guarnerius violins so special.
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Music:
Intro: Maya Belsitzman & Matan Ephrat - Narcissus
Ending: Ian Post - The Princess Quest
Special Thanks once again to:
Herbert Goodkind and his "Iconography of Antonio Stradivari."
and Tarisio's: tarisio.com/
All the other Photographs were taken by myself, many years ago.
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It is such a shame that people do not trust their EARS in appreciating a violin's beautiful voice.
Amen.
If they did they wouldn't be spending 10k on violins
You are so right. They would be spending a bit more. :) My violins start around $20K and they are SO worth it when your eyes are CLOSED (or open).@@stephenknotts6466
CC 💋🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹❣️❣️💥💥✌️
the old maters are long gone , heres to the masters that live in the now
I believe that there is hope. Yet always keep in mind that the old masters are "gone" yet isn't it wonderful that their instruments live on? I dream that mine will also.
New violins can sound just as good if not better than the old ones.
You have just shared one of the very best secrets of Stradivarius and Guarnerius: according to the original customers who really did care about quality, tone and the magic that's possible with a master violin, their "new" instruments not only looked and sounded their very best, they were better because of their personal relationships with the masters. = Someone should write a book. :) = "Two Trees," "Choice of Loves," "Clay Angel." The best thing about making violins today, is that we can learn from all the old masters collectively and see what really worked, and what didn't if we simply open our eyes and keep an open mind.
KLL you're amazing and the epitome of singular. The music for your opening with the metal damaging the finish...perfect!
Only problem with this video is=its way to short!
I could listen to Kevin for hours n hours...long live Kevin
N the romantic school of music
Crazy, I bought mine new and try to keep it looking good.
I hope no one got the wrong impression. It's wonderful to own a "pristine" master instrument and keep it so, or let the wear happen naturally. Yet, as always, there is so much more than meets the eye, and I will be making a video about how the old Masters made it a special experience for each customer.
I just bought a brand new Fender bass guitar. It's been through what they call a "relicing" process to mimic the wear and tear of an original late 50s or early 60s instrument that has been lovingly played for decades. The thing is, this bass is better made than any of the original factory assembly line Fender instruments having been made in their "custom shop" by a small team of luthiers. It plays just as well if not better than any vintage Fender I've ever laid my hands on. Moreover, it cost 1/3-14 the cost of a vintage version. It's beautiful, functional, and I don't feel the need to put a special insurance policy on it. But it has the feel and comfort of a well worn instrument. I love it. I also love my modern antiqued violin, and my cello that was made in the 90s but could, easily pass for a 150 year old instrument. Great video, great story. Thanks for sharing.
I'll be making another video about this in the future, because you are correct. There is so more to the added "charm" of a properly "antiqued" instrument than meets the eye. Which is also why I have focused so much on my "themed" violins lately (both concepts add more flavor and art than otherwise possible). Thank you so much for your comment!
Good video. My Old Time Fiddle Instructor often told me, "We let our sense of vision, overwhelm our other senses."
Her Violin did not LOOK old enough, but if you gotta SELL a violin, you do what you have to do.
You are such a great storyteller! I both love and am disturbed by how people's perceptions can change based on others' opinions, and it's really so silly. It should be about the sound, more than anything!
To a true musician, it really is about the sound (and response) more than anything else, yet best of all, if an instrument can inspire you before you ever begin playing, and if the audience loves the entire picture that you present. = It's a dream of mine.
@@kevinleeluthier It's wonderful to dream big, and I hope your dreams come true!
psychology plays a huge role in human's perceptions - sure love your videos sir! @@kevinleeluthier
Really great! I only can: completely agree. Nice story 👌
Much love 💕
Matthias 👋
Love your comment, and I am surprised how many agree. = When I started violin making (over 40 years ago), so many so-called authorities described it as "cheating." And yet those same people would turn around and say how much more color and character a Stradivarius or Guarnerius had when making comparisons. Don't get me wrong, I still love making "immaculate" violins, yet mostly the themed ones that have a charm all their own.
@kevinleeluthier The same goes with other instruments: the myth, the vintage flair and so on. Like people also instruments need their story, to bring more on the mental table. New seems innocent, no character, no story.
Unfortunately people cannot only judge by listening, just the sound, no visual 'story'. If they could, the wouldn't count the years. The more we focus on the sound, the more we can experience and enjoy the sound waves.
You really reached the highest level of being an violin maker 👌👏👏👏
Much love 💕
Matthias 👋
@@MatthiasLenardt Thank you so much for your comments and compliments. I better get back to work, though. I have a violin on my bench waiting anxiously for my return. :)
@@kevinleeluthier enjoy your masterpiece ✨️ 😉
Another great video, Kevin.
I'm always captivated by the way that you present, and your unique expression for your passion. What a charming lad. I wish you great luck in your endeavour!
There is perfection in imperfection! I have been enjoying your informative videos tremendously! Thank You so very much for what you do and for sharing your masterful insight and craftmanship with us!
The most beautiful art is never technically flawless, or symmetrical.
Kevin, thanks a lot for this amazing content.. It's lovely to listening you. And this is such an interesting topic.
This topic gets a lot more interesting the further we go. Thanks for watching!
very fun video, nice to hear about this mystical side of instrument making
Love your videos!
Great video! I understand from the point of view of the maker to satisfy the musicians and be able to make a living (that's respectable), but I'm disappointed in the classical strings community for pressuring the majority of modern violins to pretend like it's old when it's not, to "fit in" a standard. Just like furniture, I can appreciate old primitive distressed looking pieces as well as modern clean immaculate pieces. No one is asking to bang up a midcentury modern piece to look primitive. There's more to a violin's aesthetics than just looking "antiqued" such as scroll work, f-hole design wood choice etc. I think everyone is entitled to their own preferences, but the classical community disproportianately favors old violins (probably around 90%) to the point that most modern violins are faked to look older than they are. Lets all keep in mind that there are plenty of crappy old violins too. :)
Your words ring so true, because there are many musicians playing upon substandard (your to use your word "crappy") old instruments instead of very nice new ones. c'est la vie / such is life.
P.S. My dream is that "themed" violins like the "Angel" and "Gypsy" etc., will come to fulfill both the need for quality and ultimate beauty for each individual.
Very nice 👍
Very informative and interesting.
Makes me so happy I do not have this snobbish pretentious atmosphere in the musical world I am in. Every imperfection in my instrument is from my use not some fake etching. This reminds me of the guys that put fake patina on there choppers lol. I mean do what you gotta do but doing this to my violin because some random snobs at a concert couldn't keep there opinions to themselves its a little sad to me...bit of a shame
Let a violin age and wear naturally! Imperfections are beautiful. What repairs and touch-ups she did earlier to her violin were like plastic surgery.
I understand your feelings, yet my customers look at the "art" of a master violin so differently, and having experience "both sides" I try to make each customer as happy and fulfilled as possible. There are also some "natural" wear patterns and imperfections that just don't look right, especially when using some shoulder rests/pads, etc. = A "perfect" violin, or a "perfectly beautiful" violin in it's own way, that is the question. :)
What an amazing story! I love your channel. You GET me. :)
I have one from 1913 that is immaculate. I prefer old instruments that don’t look like they have aged a day.
That's wonderful, and that's why I have never made a copy, because each customer is unique with a dream of their own! Thank you for watching.
Italians Cremona modern violin masters now days have alot of good informations and secrets of violin making sound improving.
Kevin you're absolutely brilliant and it's a shame you haven't gotten the acknowledgment you deserve yet
I suppose that you're right. Even Tarisio auctions in New York says that no matter how good my instruments are, I need to become "more famous" in order to sell my instruments next to the old masters. So I guess it's time I got serious about marketing to the general public, instead of relying upon word of mouth. Most of my violins seem to end up in Hollywood, and other recording studios since most of the musicians there really do care about the tone and response of an instrument. = If anyone can help, I will always be grateful. Thanks!
Do they know about your connection with Jacques Francais? How much more proof do they need? Here you have the greatest violin appraiser in history giving your violin a certificate of approval when he wouldn’t even look at anything but the greatest of greats?!! Blow that thing up and show it to the 🌎
@@cjc4765 All of the top dealers in the world are aware of Mr. Francais' appraisal and his certification of my instruments. Not one has ever claimed that my instruments since that time are not among the finest. But it still takes a lot of hutzpah, and for most, the proper financial incentives to be the next in line to proclaim it.
It really is my fault though, for being so naïve and too poor at the time to take Jacques Francais up on his offer to go down to the New York Times the next morning and "make a big deal of it."
Thank you so much for your comments.
@@kevinleeluthier Wow. Just unreal ! In fact I just watched “made in America” with Jacques. What a guy he was. And I remember the Wurlitzer Vaults that they mentioned. In fact I stopped to see the building and there’s a Greys Papaya across the street( this was about 30 years ago so not sure if it’s still there) and I had my “recession special”. Back then the hot dogs were 50 cents each! And right across the street once housed the greatest collections of violins in history!
That segment with Jacques is wonderful and his connections to Sacconi with his main guy that did the restorations. I bet he may have asked you if you wanted to work for him? Possible?
I would say that one of your inlays with that wood and artwork are valued well North of 100K. I wonder if price is a problem as well??
I think anyone who has built many things would never call one of their works "perfect"
Kevin, thankyou for your wonderful videos , i really enjoy them and learned alot by them. I currently own and play a 1890 copy of a strad hand made in germany and it plays beautifuly.
I love "antiqued" new violins, because they look beautiful and absolutely healthy, and I truly enjoy your presentation. =)
The word contrived comes to mind.
Great topic!
I build mandolins and guitars and find it funny that a Gibson master model distressed is 10,000. more than a undistressed one
I won’t pay anyone to beat up my instrument. I do a nice enough job of it as it is. I can be a klutz.
This is my favorite video yet ! HAHA ! Nails on a violin , 50 year olding it , hahaha, Incroyable , thank you so much for your story sharring such a interesting life you have , the story about Paul broke my heart with laughter and tears :o) , I love you guys , and yes , this is truelly a very romantic school here now with you Kevin , merci
What a great video I’ve been interested for quite a while in attempting to make an instrument what do you recommend?
An excellent video Kevin. If possible, (and I haven't looked through your channel yet - you may have done one already) could you do a video on one piece versus two piece backs. That seems to be a hot topic among luthiers, sellers, teachers and players. (Transparency: My violin has a one piece quilted maple back).
Thank you for this video Kevin. I have followed you for many years and align with your views. The classical music community is filled with elitist snobs with out of touch views. I would rather own one of your instruments than any stradivarius.
i guess the reason for this was quite simple: if you do not touch your instrument it stays in perfect shape. but the first scratch or dent hurts, REALLY hard.
when i bought my first "good" guitar, the first (and maybe only really bad) scratch was an ex girlfriend that threw a metal-magnet-board at my guitar. i still remember it, even though its maybe... 20 years since?
i now understand why you would prefer an artificially aged instrument, for the same reason why you would choose a dark sofa instead of a white one :D
That's one more reason to add a little character from the very beginning, because a travelling musician, no matter how careful will always add a few more scratches and nicks along the way. = It's one less worry. :)
Every new instrument I make I try to make look about 150 years old. A lot of people are super surprised it's only a few months old lol
And they're probably grateful for it every time they stand on stage. :)
Purchase one to become it's custodian and take responsibility for ensuring that music history is preserved for future generations comes to mind as a reason....
Some people believe that old tube amplifiers behind old records sound better than a CD with state-of-the-art electronics.
So this is where relicing guitars comes from?
interesting!
such a wonderful story teller.. dramatic in all the right places. I am going to go bang on my violin now wish me luck. All kidding aside that was a really good story.
i recently aquired an otto bausch violin. label says 1877. it was in pretty bad shape. im no pro luthier or fiddler for that matter. i got it in pretty decent shape and really love it.just cant quite get the sound like i want.
I plan on doing a comprehensive series about adjusting the tone of instruments. Soon....
I must confess I also prefer buying old stuff, be it a house, a painting or an instrument. My viola is being certified, but it appears tp be 500 years old. It has an original Italian varnish, which has not been antiqued. But again this was the 1st generation of violin family instruments, so I guess nobody would want them to look like then old rebecs. Guttenberg invented printing press cca 1460, heart of the press being a nut. Without a nut and bold there would be no violin mold, so here we go. Oh and Leonardo re-invented the nut shortly after Guttenberg, and he made and played something bowed, the first bowed instrument of its own class, details unknown, no picture survived.
I have an old violin which has been with our family for over 100 years purchased used at that time so the age I do not know. A label appears inside but I don’t believe it to be a true classic. How can I verify
Wow KLL really nailed this video (no pun intended) brief but to the point...and what an amazing story 😍
Can't wait for more on this controversial topic from maestro Kevin
Don't apologize, I love the pun. You made me laugh out loud.
they did it themselves to help the sale. ha. that's hilarious. thanks
Funny, and in a way sad, because no matter how great his instruments were, Guarnerius, still died in abject poverty; and Jacob Stainer in a straight jacket and muzzle. Welcome to the world of the Master Luthier.
@@kevinleeluthier I suppose the pursuit of perfection can be maddening.
Antiquing can help the aesthetics of instruments, but it really bothers me when luthiers take it too far. I was at NAMM a few years ago, and a particular vendor couldn’t sell a beautiful sounding Topa violin. Why? Because Topa had gotten so carried away with the antiquing that that he had created a fake saddle crack. No one wanted to buy a brand new violin that looked damaged. We ended up purchasing it, and it sold immediately in our shop.
I guess violin is similar to denim jeans? most ppl prefer the washed, softened up, distressed look more.
WHOT..???..!!
Did I hear this right correctly..?
Really..
Oh the silly snobbery of it all..!
Next time tell those people.
Yeah, I "antiqued" this here violin with a contemporary hand forged rusty nail from the 17th/ 18th Century. Here, see, do you like, yes..?
Quite an insault this is to the living Luthier Craftsman carrying on a wonderful beautiful ART TODAY.
To have their very work/ soul vandalized so as to apear that someone Else Crafted it so it can be taken much more seriously.
Oh dear me what an insult..
So, did I hear that right..?
Now tell those people to scratch their eyes and ears with some rusted nail. One discarded from a modern day hardware shop of course..!
Art truly is different for different people. My personal favorite is a "new" themed violin that cannot be confused with any of the old masters, and that matches the soul of the one who will play upon it. Also, while it's sometimes necessary to do major repairs and touch up the varnish on other maker's violins, I DO NOT believe in "antiquing" or "distressing" anything that I have not made myself. This is the tradition of the old Masters, and I believe a good one. Thank you so much for your comment!
Old does not have to look old. An old violin that looks new shows respect for the instrument,and the builder.
If I ever buy a brand new violin, I want it to look brand new. I don’t like the distressed look, on any new instrument. I’m paying for new, not beat up.
Then you would probably love one of my "themed" violins/instruments. (A shameless plug that I couldn't resist.) :)
Well, she obviously needs cognitive behavioral therapy😢, as well as all those who think that to play on a new instrument is a bad thing.
The stigma that you were "no one" unless you played upon one of the old masters was much worse fifty years ago when I was a young. This is one thing that seems to be slowly getting better.
I tried to keep this video fairly short, sweet, and to the point. Yes, I wish that she had "stood her ground" just a little longer, maybe even asked for my help before "giving in."
Sometimes a little controversy and "bucking a trend" can help launch a career like nothing else. Yet, it does take a certain personality (or a certain lesson from The Romantic School of Music that will be coming out soon) to pull it off. :)
@@kevinleeluthier You are absolutely right👐
Maybe she thought she didn’t deserve a new violin.
In my opinion, the bias against "new" violins is utter foolishness. While it is true that wooden instruments mature over time, a "new" instrument can also be a wonderful thing that will mature over time as wll.
That being said, there is no money in making things, only in selling things. Regardless of how great one makes an instrument, if no one buys it, the Luthier starves and builds no more.
So true. Thank you for your comments.
That is so crapulent for it shows how distorted people's values have become; an artist should be beyond such baseness.
🤔 who was it that said. "'who is this new composer? He isn't even dead yet"'
Instrument making improves with time. Lets quote that for the other meaning but put an olde spin on it.....
This seems shamefully. I knowingly put my fiddle through a process I think of as a natural stress. It takes time and work. Let's think of the already pleasant tensions placed upon the article. Some of which are dictated by the carved grains and, most of which are torqued by the string tensions into that system of play and tune.
I think playing, setting the instrument on wall, thumping and stout finger tapps upon the joints with several re-sets and string changes over a time can make a newer item sing like an old stump.
Also, newer items are more closely controlled in manufacture than those of old. Too ra ooh ra ehh?
Another fine example of good old fashioned violin snobbery. Just another good reason not to listen to what others think.
Kevin , you are so , sooo, soooo dramatic . Unfortunately , for me , anyhow is, the drama consumes so much time of the video , there is scant time for more historical information and interesting anecdotal commentary . Hope you don’t feel bruised by this comment ; I only wish to help.
Most folks don’t like being called dramatic, unless they’re acting…..
Agree. I don't know if that's his usual way of communication, but it's certainly off-putting. I struggle to take him seriously with such affectations. When his clientele include the Joshua Bells of this life, I'll know he's genuine. If new fiddles sounded as good as the best of the old, Joshua and others would be playing them. Caché and snobbishness don't cut much ice with top artists.