The CRITICAL FLAW with Modern Fighter Jets
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- Опубликовано: 12 июн 2024
- Even though modern fighters cost upwards of $100 million there's still a secret flaw in them that hasn't been fixed.
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🎬 Produced and Written By: Hasard Lee, Michael Cunningham, Josh Hak, and Nicole Livering.
📷 Cam Ops: Shawn Cimonetti, Nicole Livering
👨🏻💻 Edited By: Michael Cunningham
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00:00 - Intro
00:58 - Modern Fighter's Big Problem
02:23 - Not a New Problem
03:02 - Not Good Enough
05:15 - The Expert Opinion
07:22 - The F-35's Critical Flaw
08:12 - The Savior Arrives
09:00 - How It Works
11:19 - Hasard Tries the Skydrate System
13:11 - Conclusion
I'm giving away an F-35 Zap to someone who likes, shares, and leaves a comment. Good luck!
Your intro says, "I was" an Air Force fighter pilot. Are you no longer?
Sure I’ll take an F-35… I’ll build a runway behind my house real quick!
So you can be releasing Fox 2 while tactically skydrating without concern. Nice
@@Nick-xe2hu I'm pretty sure he's reserve now.
Hasard, I hate to bring it up, but what about #2?
I'm constantly amazed by the fact that you guys manage to do all these high g maneuvers while being dehydrated, a true testament to your skills as fighter pilots
This time next year everyone will be overstressing airframes because their G-tolerance shot up so much
I had no idea that this was a serious threat to our pilots. This is a game changer for sure.
Them pilots ought to leave a bad review on trip-advisor; *"Most excellent view, but big negative on toilet services. Also missing soap and handkerchief."*
I knew about toilet complexity from reading about spaceflight, but always expected that they got some solution for fighter jets.
But damn, they flew 5 hour missions with F16s without peeing or using diapers? Thats actually insane.
Russian fighter pilots are giggling to that middle age
@@michalpeterka8041 Russian fighters dont got toilets either. I think only the SU-34 has something similar to Skydrate, but that thing is also set up as a (somewhat short range) bomber.
Generally russian plane comfort is way worse than american planes. Its like situational awareness and intuitive controls is foreign concept to their designers.
@@termitreter6545 oh come on. this is sorted out in their presure overal for 35 years
Astounding that a 5th Gen fighter aircraft such as the F-35 did not take into account such a fundamental human factors issue.
Neither does the raptor, as far as I know only bombers have restrooms
@@JLotG su34 is fighter bomber with toilet
Engineers don't poop
Simple answer. That was not the engineers job. Limited funding, when designing and building the aircraft. Too many headaches already without having to worry about how the pilots going to take a piss.
@@Dev-In-Denver123 Limited funding? You're having a laugh. The JSF program is the most expensive fighter program in history.
As a former aircraft maintainer, my hats off to the engineers who go through extensive designing, testing, and improving systems that make it easier on pilots.
Nah fuck those guys, keep your hat on. Your head will get cold and then you'll get sick, and it's not worth getting sick over piss bag engineers. Is it a pretty dope piss bag? Yeah it's a pretty dope piss bag. However it's also a piss bag that should've been implemented 50 years ago and wasn't. And that's the real crime here.
Perhaps an AFSC in piss support technician?
@@thomashelm6931 let AFE take care of it.
Glad to see they are finally addressing the Number 1 problem of modern fighter jets.
In old days, You could at least open a window and throw the bottle out.
And now for number 2...
@@gshenaut Those are significantly easier to hold in.
@@EvelynTheVixen2016 Worst case, just drop some bombs
What about number 2 if you have to go?
After your 'F-16 Across the Ocean' video I was always wondering how did you guys take the bathroom break while flying formation. I had no idea that piddle-pack involved such high risks.
Skydrate is truly revolutionary.
Glad to hear from a longtime viewer. Flying formation while trying to do this, particularly in the weather, can be terrifying
Oh okay so it is Skydrate. I thought I heard Skydrip :P
@@HasardLee what plane did u fly at the test?
@@HasardLee at 11:25
You were doing skydrating, do aviators do cigarette break like this?
@@Only_God_Is_Allah_SWT Are you serious? You seriously think these are the type of people that smoke, AND you think they'd do it in a $100 million dollar fighter jet? That's a weird statement my man.
I have flown across country from San Diego CA to Oshkosh WI in a Cessna 170, and can attest that this 'issue' is not confined to the F-35. Hasard, many thanks for addressing this very sensitive yet terribly important subject.
How do you do it? Autopilot?
Isn't it possible to pee into a bottle with wide cap?
@@vanjamenadzer Of course it is. Make sure you have a screw top lid, natch.
@@alvaro93364 Unless the Cessna is retrofitted, trim is your friend. As one once said, trim is a poor man's autopilot.
As a GA Pilot, even we when flying long distances will dehydrate ourselves the same way. You can definitely feel it when you step out of the plane. Hopefully something like this finds a way to GA one day.
As a helicopter pilot, especially in a Robinson with no autopilot, going hands off controls is pretty much impossible for a long duration (few minutes) so even a piddle pack for me wouldnt work. However, having a skydrate system would be fundemental if I had fuel tanks big enough to have this issue lol.
Always gotta bring an empty Gatorade bottle for cross country flights 😂
Here in Arizona you really don't want to do that. The heat makes it hard enough to fly, intentionally dehydrating is just asking for trouble.
I am so proud to be part of the team that builds these SKYDRATE systems. It is so awesome to see you all using it. Thank you for your service and your talents!
I certainly pray Skydrate will give our airmen a huge physiological advantage over adversaries, as such, I hope they dont find out and copy it.
@@idolhanz9842 you do realize that a simple bag holding your piss isn´t some magical 10th generation technology? P.S don´t worry no need to copy such simple low tech. gosh you yanks are truly a gem of evolution
Do you think you can build one that has vibration ?
I just went through a stint in the hospital and they used two different external catheters. Neither work. Much work needs to be done.
@Humbulla93 gotta love us 'mercans. Most have literally never left their own county, yet 'we know' were the only ones who 'know' everything about everything... sight unseen. We know our health care is the only way... because tv told us and we cant do math to check!
This was a big issue in my 20 years of flying single-seat fighters. You get up and drink a few cups of coffee, have a soda or water getting ready to fly and as soon as I was strapped in and ready to takeoff, my bladder started to yell. "Hey, empty me!" Glad there is now a solution to this issue. Thanks. Beaker Out!
Ha ha...I was not expecting the content of this video after reading the title. Have you seen the video on RUclips where women fighter pilots demonstrate all of their female devices? So many questions answered! LOL I was a Plane Captain on Hornets in the Marines. I have found several devices in the cockpit when attempting to pin the seat and every time I was quick to yell over my shoulder "NOT SO FAST SIR! You forgot a little something".
The most amazing thing about this is that it wasn't done years ago. It's like we're too embarrassed to admit we pee so we just ignore it. Good video, thanks for sharing.
I appreciate you sharing one of those "not talked about" but very real and, as you highlighted, very serious issues faced by our pilots. Thank you for your insight and thank you for your service!
It’s awesome to see new technologies coming along making it safer for our service members flying and for people in the future who want to fly fighters like me.
It is awesome along with some of the other tech I have seen him test already. When they put all this new stuff together it should give our aviators a clear advantage. Check out hazards video on those technologies its pretty cool stuff. Like it tracks your heart rate, blood oxygen and a few other things.
WW2 and the Battle of Britain air war was especially tough on pilots. I knew a older gent back in the day who was ground crew on Spitfires. He told me that they fed the pilots Blueberries, I think it was, in the belief it helped their visual acuity. He said that it was common for them to have to hose out the cockpits after combat. I have no reason to doubt his recollections and this excellent presentation really brought home the problem. Excellent video. I am stunned at how little space there is for the pilot in this hi-tech jet!!!! Glad to be a ground pounder!
As a glider pilot i was beyond thrilled to see development in this field… I hope to soon see financially viable options for the recreational markets. It truly is a hassle flying in a group of 20+gliders in a competition and having to deal with a piddle pack. Let alone the tactical dehydration factors. Thanks for informing, great video!
To hear that the F-35 has a "system", where you have to completely unstrap, sounds insane. Nice to see that the solution is a relief system and not some crazy medical idea from the same person that designed the problem in the first place ;). Next could be a Valve system that could eject the fluid from the jet. We all saw that in the Apollo 13 movie :).
And mind the F-35 is a slightly slow, but fairly long ranged jet compared to the F16s and F18s it replaces. If anything it needed a better toilet...
100 million dollars of scrap metal 🤓
@@mikele9878🤡
I can't even imagine how difficult it must be to take a leak into a piddle pack while wearing an exposure suit and flying a high performance jet. I've had plenty of sub-optimal experiences taking a leak while on a kayak and wearing dry pants. Worse case I piss on myself and roll off into the water. It's not like I'm going to lose control at 20,000 feet and then find myself needing to eject, but I unstrapped from the seat. I'm glad they came up with a system to deal with this issue for our aviators.
I find it amazing that with all major advancements they have made to these jets, it took decades to figure out this seemingly simple solution for peeing!
I was always wondering how fighter pilots deal with this. I learned about the "piddle pack" watching this channel but I never realized how difficult this would be in practice.
By far and a way the scariest flight I've ever had was being stuck in a Piper with a young woman beside me who desperately needed to pee but wouldn't let me divert because she figured she could hold it. A couple of hours later, if was gusting like crazy on final but there was no way in hell she would let me go around. As soon as I reached the FBO, she flung the door open and almost ran into the still-spinning prop on her way to find the can. I've never encountered someone so totally devoid of reason.
Hey man, don't let a passenger tell you how to fly. If you need to go around, then you MUST go around.
Dumb woman, peeing your pants is nothing compared to getting your arm sliced by the running prop.
And also don't allow her to 'let you' or not let you divert. If she might end up as a distraction and you're genuinely prepared to divert then do it. If she can hold it to the apron at the diversion great. Once you're parked up there I doubt she'll be demanding you take off immediately!
Yeah thats actually kinda scary.
My scariest flight is related to the same issue. I’m a glider pilot and was new to the whole long duration thing. So armed with my piddle pack I went on a long flight, but I had a massive psychological blockage when it came to going… it just wouldn’t go. I gave it time and figured it would start to run eventually. It didn’t, I eventually started blacking out from the pain, just barely made it back to my home airport and just like that. On the ground all was good and thing ran… had pains in my bladder and kidneys for a couple days after. Since then I have overcome this issue, but the thought of what could have happened that day still scares me.
lol “when you have to go…” said as “when you gotta go” in the mural in the background LOL. I know this is serious business, but your intro and everything made me laugh especially about the past solutions to this issue. Highly informative! Thanks for taking the time to make this video!
Dude this was absolutely informative and hilarious. But it's always the littlest things that causes a lot of problems. Glad we're moving forward.
Human factors was my major in college. Sad that so many had to die for this to take so long to develop. Million$ could have been saved too… “miSsiOn FiRsT” was always such a detriment to anything we were studying, it made me question so much about the industry and understand the big shift to so many missions being transitioned to UAV’s
I think human factors is really cool but idk much about it. Am I right in thinking NASA did a lot to progress human factors? IIRC airliner crew resource management took massive inspiration from NASA
hey another fellow HF engineer!
The intelligence, skill and courage our fighter pilots have makes me so proud.
Being proud of someone else doing the heavy lifting is easy and lazy.
@Ste Jer OK Ken
@@crazyyoda8721 You make me so proud.
@@stejer211 lol
Very informative video Hasard. No civilian would ever see a problem with this and think about these issues
Good to see you talking to Billie. This guy is just awesome. Combat vet, test pilot ... can't say enough about him! And you, Hasard. Good vid as always!
Thanks Hasard for the video. In gliders we often fly over 5 hours. Some times 8-10 hours. Some of us use Uridom as a relief system. It is basically a simpler version of the SkyDry.
Thanks for the good laugh with the story about the Whistling $hithouse. You've earned another subscriber. As a civilian pilot I am well aware of the distraction from a painfully full bladder. Never did I give a thought about military ops, figuring it was addressed in a manner equally sophisticated as the aircraft itself. This was an interesting and very informative video.
I never imagined how serious of an issue this is. Glad to hear that something is being done to remedy it.
Great edit for sure Hasard X . Great great content and something that allot of fighter pilot's were probably embarrassed to talk about. And you did it. So props to you for sure. Again thank you for sharing..
Very excellent. Finally adult design for an everybody problem. My Dad as navigator/bombardier in B17’s said to “go” they took a can and balanced on the bridge in the bomb bay with accidents common. In similar vein, one story I like to tell is that my Dad was at Hickam Field during the attack on Pearl Harbour. In the after math of the attack when everything was getting back to normal a notice was put up requiring that to use the toilet a maximum of 13 sheets of paper should be used. He was amused that some desk guy had to do the maths to determine how often people go, how many people there were, and what there stocks of rolls were against when re supply was likely. These are human issues. It’s a shock that it has take this long for the services to develop solutions.
Love to see a fellow hockey player flying fighter jets
'We've got green. That means good."
Gives a whole new meaning to "Green means go".
I'm always amazed by the quality of your very informative videos, Hasard. Looking forward to the next one! :)
While not a pilot (yet...) I am a huge fan of long haul road trips by car and motorcycle. Thankfully I have the convenience of stopping to use the bathroom whenever I please, however even on just a motorcycle I know the hazards of dehydration and NEVER risk it. If I was in a pilot's position I'd 100% be shopping for some huggies for myself
Now *this* kind of talk is one you'll never see from a DCS player. (Sorry, Growling Sidewinder and Longshot!)
In all seriousness, this was a very enlightening video, Hasard. But honestly, a very *interesting* one as well, since there's so much more that goes into a fighter plane beyond acrobatics that people see at air shows--and so many of those aspects are interesting in their own ways. Fighter procurements, mission planning, and yes, the physical and biological logistics of flying a jet for extended periods of time.
Congratulations on being one of the few individuals that has basically sort of revived "Weekday Wings" (only on the Discovery Channel) for me.
Keep up the amazing work.
Are you me?! Wings on Discovery channel was my FAVORITE show growing up! And GS and LongShot are my favorite DCS youtubers!
@@dan725 hah...birds of a feather!
Excellent instructional video. Very interesting information. Thanks
A very interesting yet overlooked subject! My compliments!!
In my 26 years of service as a HAF tech WO surely I have come across the occasional wet ejection seat of a pilot who couldn't hold any longer ... everybody does it - nobody talks about it .....
We need to adapt this for long haul truck drivers LOL 😂
Well done on this innovation. Will improve pilot performance on long missions.
It’s so fascinating to see how after a certain point in technology development the human factor becomes the limiting one but we still overengineer and innovate
I try to watch all of Hasards videos but the intro sounded like he used the past tense to describe his air force career. Did I miss the retirement announcement? If so congratulations Hasard on a successful career in service to our country.
I wonder if there's a civilian/commercial system that's available (and affordable) yet? Every flight in my 1969 C172K is a long flight 🤣
question is how safe is it in an ejection? will it rip your schtik off if something goes wrong?
What a fantastic human factors topic to cover in a video. Thank you.
DCS player, I enjoy your real technical and theoretical content which is seldom discussed or presented. Thanks!
This needs to be incorporated into DCS!
@@pyRoy6 LOL! careful what you ask for :) They might have to simulate some failures in game!
Hasard, could you explain why military uav’s like the predator and reaper can use ground based remote pilots but fighters do not? It would seemingly solve the human problems like restrooms and g forces making the aircraft even more maneuverable.
Also, this reminds me of Ironman 2 🎥 “what do you do if you have to pee in suit?”.
Lag time, Situational Awareness, and some of the weapons most US fighters can carry require man-in-the-loop weapons release authority (nukes). Every TACAIR platform except the A-10C and F-15C can carry tactical nukes like the B-61 for the tactical nuke strike mission profile.
Critical non algorithmic thinking
The human is the weakest link in the aircraft. Without a human on board the aircraft could be so much more capable. The aircraft could be smaller, faster, take more G's, and have much longer endurance, and of course it would take humans out of harms way. Remote, automated, or even AI piloting seems to be likely somewhere down the road. Surely, their are some, maybe many, human fighter pilots who consciously or unconsciously undermine the idea of moving in that direction for the sake of fighter pilot glory. If not already, we should probably be investing in the necessary communications and automation research to develop the fool-proof technologies that would enable this.
@@Patriot-bn9om Wrong. Human pilots ruin airframes easily. Humans in dogfight training over-G their aircraft if they're not careful, sending the fighter to a lengthly maintenance check to clear the airframe to fly again. Just listen to pilot interviews and podcasts, they retell stories about getting told off by their maintenance crews for over-G'ing airframes.
Airspace of the future will only get more contested and complex. This solution is fantasisc, given pilots will be in more complex battlepaces. Love the fact that you tested It as well! Best pilot channel on YT
I'm glad your highlighting this seriously.
This is a really interesting channel. I'm still trying to figure out who pays for it. It costs tens of thousands of dollars an hour to fly those aircraft, and this is being done just so I can be entertained about in flight toilet systems?
Is this paid by US mil recruiting, or by companies promoting products to the US mil? It seems unlikely that Haszard makes enough on merch to fund this. Genuinely curious to find out.
Jesus it never occurred to me how hard that effort must be in a plane. I hope they solve the issue soon. As someone who just gets nervous with IBS it makes it hard just to decide to go for a run without consideration of this issue. I suspect it ten times worse in combat.
Most amazing part of this to me was the aileron roll while drinking and holding an open bottle.
Really great and important video! Thanks! I'm a retired USAF aircraft electrician (mostly F-16, and 1st Sgt, also did a tour with the USAF Thunderbirds and crew'd the 2-seater and had plenty of occasions to use a piddle pack....NOT fun!) and worked for Lockheed after retirement at the Ft Worth plant. I was a flight line supervisor on both the F-16 and F-35 sides and had the honor of launching out Billie Flynn many times....and always a consummate professional and all around good human being!
Great content as usual! But it just amazes me to think that a problem as ubiquitous as "Oh man! I gotta piss like a racehorse!" was never really addressed in a serious manner since 1904. For crying out loud, did anyone actually listen when pilots landed and said "Hey Jack! Ya got a stick of Beamans? Oh, and can you figure out a good way to take a leak while I'm flying this thing?" Funny how the most natural, obvious, and yet pressing problems are the last to be solved. Cheers!
This is all about the pee, but what about the 💩
Something I’ve never thought about, but really interesting Ty
Excellent!! Finally, the elephant in the room was addressed. Not to mention that if you are in a major need to relieve yourself and in a tense flight/fight maneuver one's thinking and skills has to be affected.
As a troubleshooter on an A-7E Corsair I remember seeing stain on the seat and aviator because the P Tube froze up at altitude the piddle pack was not in use at the time.
Outstanding, good to hear that issue has been properly addressed. Go Luke, check six!
Whistling ****house got me🤣
I was an A-10 Pilot... talk about a slow trip across the pond.. Winter months were the month as we had to wear a "poopy suit" Exposure suit over our flight suit (think heavy weight, water proof, with a very heavy and difficult to operate waterproof zipper). Man, trying to pee was an experience... Plus, we didn't have an autopilot back then... trying to go, while trying to keep it level with rudder pedals.. some funny scenes watching other guys slowly rolling over while trying to pee.. Sorry to see this hasn't changed...
I thought A10s got transported in cargo planes when going overseas
Superb video - amazing work HL.
Very good comments. You answer so many questions. I love your episodes. Have a good flight from France!
That's awesome. Even have it colored properly for sewage waste.
"Don't think anyone's done a barrel roll while whizzing" .... ear yer heart out Tom Cruise 😁. This was an awesome video!
You anticipated every thought I was having by thirty seconds, amazing..
Sick, I’d never had imagined. Think of all the small stuff engineers and whoever else have to overcome.
I'm hoping that I get to deal with this problem and now solution in the future!
Isn't it nice to have a grown up conversation about something so important.....nice presentation by all.
Desert racers in Baja have been using pretty much this for years. They cost $10, maybe a bit more if you attach it to a piddle pack.
Love the BD5 hanging up in the background!❤
That process sounds like a nightmare.
Edit: the old process, the new one sounds like a dream.
Question: does the piddle pack have a G- load limit? How do you secure it for maneuvers?
(Imagining bag of gelatin urine flying around the cockpit.)
Well dang.. It's about time
Very informative and a game changer.
I first heard of this in the early 70s, living as a kid living on air force bases, they still have not solved it yet.
Thank you for keeping our ground pounders safe! And thank you for answering the call.
I am a former Crew Chief. Worked A7D's. They had "piss tubes" that sucked the urine to an exit on the right side of the fuselage just behind and below the cockpit. It would leave a hard yellow crust streak that was difficult to clean off at the wash rack. I am surprised that 40 years later they haven't already had better technology to take care of this important issue.
Good very real topic glad they have a solution.
Brilliant stuff, great video! Is it bad to say I want one for my long distance driving, including for endurance sim racing - or even DCS World? :)
Could you do an episode showing unclassified portions of a pilots survival vest, LPU (life preserver unit), anti-exposure/ emersion suit, and especially arctic flying gear? Thanks!
“3% dehydration = 50% performance reduction” - what an incredible statistic
Amazing system, someone really thought out of the box to develop that!
Watched your video from start to finish, and I am blown away at how you have presented one of the largest hindrances to flying fixed wing aircraft. I have been an aviation life support systems technician for over twenty years, and I’m glad that this video was made. I hope it helps to break down the barriers and embarrassment of having to urinate while you’re in flight. Now we just have to figure out how to take a bowel movement out of the equation. Keep up the good work, Semper Fi.
Pamper
Does it disconnect on ejection? You would think it must, rather than dragging a possibly full bag with you...
Just saw an interview with you from 2020 and had no clue you were from New Mexico and went to NMMI. I grew up in Albuquerque until I was 12 and went high school in Roswell.
This is fantastic, but there’s one more issue that wasn’t mentioned and that the Skydration system, as far as I know, can handle. So Hasard, what about doing number 2? If you’re eating, inevitably you’re going to need some throne time.
Hopefully you can get into a schedule where you go in the morning or at night. You're not gonna be in the aircraft for 24 hours, so if nature calls then you'll just have to tighten up until you land 😂
WOW... What a awesome job you have
What kind of watch are you rocking in the video Hasard?
Is that the new LIFT Airborne Technologies helmet at 11:25? This may deserve a video of it's own.
There should be a comm brevity code for this. When a pilot is taking piss . He should announce so C2 and all players know not to disturb him
Crazy it has taken this long to figure out!!!
Very important and interesting thanks for sharing.
Even as a student, I didn't go to the school toilet. I don't even know what it looks like. I never had to go during those 8 hours. And so today at work. I drink water regularly and I don't have any health problems, but I noticed that since I was little I can go for a long time without having to go to the toilet. I've always wondered how someone has to go to the bathroom every hour and how someone goes to the bathroom as a guest.
Hey dude, I was wondering since You've flown 2 different gen jets, which one is louder?
In cockpit and outside.
This is a game-changer!!!!!! I wish they produce the fiddle pack for public use, especially for family long road trips.
This is the same exact issue you face when flying civilian aircraft as well--especially when flying single-pilot IMC, without an autopilot. Did it for several years, and it's never fun to have to execute the COMPLETE approach (ie; full procedure turn, etc) while you're crossing your legs trying not to pee.
Outstanding product, and a great episode.