Let me know if I should make this a series where I do the same, but for trans people/feminists, people of a particular race/religion/furries etc Also wtf, youtube changed layout and comments are on the far right in some tiny box. Wtf is this, change it back asap pls, it's ballache to reply to comments like this.
My thumbnails providing those 1.21 gigawatts and blasting you back to the future. Where's my nobel prize in physics? Appreciate the kind words milkuetea. Make sure you go check out the 12 other videos I've uploaded this year, especially the last Bible one that I uploaded. Proud af of that one.
@@GradeAUnderA yo im 15 I discovered you during quarantine through the Phobias video, and have been watching you since then 🙏 wtb you one of the many goats of yt, gng, love your content
I work on a poultry farm, and though you addressed it in your video that factory farms are cruel, I dont think most people understand how cruel they are, and a lot of people do end up not eating meat as a result of working in it. The environment is very very dirty, crowded, smelly, hot and dark, the birds are also overfed and are bred to be as meaty as possible, resulting in their legs being weak and not able to hold the body up properly. They also have very weak hearts and other organs, which results in very frequent deaths, culling for minor inconveniences is also very common, due to the resources going into treating a singular chicken isn't beneficial enough compared to just getting rid of it.
I can't tell if you're an employee that knew nothing of the process, an activist playing pretend, or a commenter farming updoots. The environment is dirty because they're animals and cleaning the area while the chickens are living in there is just asking to get them killed from foreign exposure. The environment is crowded because the chickens don't mind living in those conditions. The environment is hot because bodies produce heat and there's a lot of them in an enclosed space. The environment is dark because diurnal birds tend to sleep if the surrounding area is dark. Broiler chickens are bred to produce a specific flavor of meat and a certain amount of it after a short time. They are genetic dead ends outside of this, which is why their immune system is impacted, their organs can't keep up with the weight they put on, and their legs can only sometimes carry them. I strongly doubt there was any culling for minor inconveniences. Broiler chickens are genetically similar, making disease even easier to spread between them. If any chicken is found injured or sick, it must be extracted and culled because a cure would be longer than its lifespan in most cases, and it's vital to know what it could be spreading. If a barn is found to have a spreading sickness, the entire population is culled. During avian flu outbreaks the existence of a confirmed sickness in one barn can result in the entire facility having its population culled, just to make sure. This is government mandate. With that said, there's always the possibility of mismanagement at your facility. Maybe they skimped on cleaning despite that being a vector for disease. Maybe they overstocked a barn, or were killing birds because they wanted to play kickball but didn't have a ball. If there wasn't mismanagement, then your complaints are permissible as it being how reality works.
@@TheAstyanii Only thing I care about is the quality of the eggs/meat, and the chickens farmed in those environments are the worst quality imaginable, my dad has a few chickens himself and when you compare them to even the best store bought eggs the difference is staggering
Yes, yes, yes, I think we all agree that animal cruelty is bad and we should reduce (and eventually eliminate) it, vegan or not. But factory farms aren't the only source of eggs and milk, this is exactly what Grade is talking about. With this logic I could say "Stop eating fruits! You have no idea in how horrible conditions people who pick apples work!" (which is true btw)
I feel obligated to answer the questions for two reasons 1. I'm a vegan(but not the typical one that always talks about it) 2. I'm a big fan(and I do always talk about grade) I can't speak for all vegans but I'll just answer what I think Basically the short answer for the serious questions is that in all the situations you asked about I'll be ok with eating the products, but I'll never trust anyone to actually make sure it is how the food was made, even if they said it is. So now for the full Q&A Loved animals: assuming you don't do anything to change their normal nature, give them proteins or hormones to lay more eggs, produce more milk, or fuck each other a bunch so that you have an army of them, I'd have no problem eating cheese or eggs made from actions that just happened naturally. Like if your cow likes to lactate in bottles, great! No involvement: You are right again, as always. Assuming neither you or any other human had _anything_ to do with the cow dying, or with it being born(cause again, if you made them into hoes, that's on you), and a random cow walking along the street just happens to die from a heart failure - I'll even eat the streak with you. Cause as you said, there was no human caused suffering involved in any way. Religion: I'm an atheist so like, I don't think any God wanted you to be vegan Mushrooms: _ohhhhh fuck mate you're right_ Nahhh They don't have a nerve system, they don't feel pain and are not conscious. So in other words basically what I'm saying is if a coma patient has _NO CHANCE_ to get better. And he has no family or people that care about him and yada yada yada a bunch more rules, then feel free to butcher and eat him.
how can u tell mushrooms are not conscious? i mean u r made of atoms and cells and somehow we think we r conscious but so does mushrooms are made of atoms and cells ...etc . at the end of the day all life forms or not are made of the same things but we perceive ourselves to be somehow superior than any life form, veggies or not. the perfect logical solution for vegans is actually to not eat a thing... even a rock. 😆
Plants don't have a nervous system like mammals, true. But they do have a way of emitting a distress signal. For example, that fresh cut grass smell we smell after cutting our yards is actually a distress signal from the grass. Mammals tend to express distress by screams, plants express distress by letting off a specific chemical. Distress is still distress Regardless of how the organism presents it, I would argue. I have a microbiology degree, we studied quite a bit of plants. I believe so hard in this not because of anything I read online but because of what I've seen.
The 2 replies above me are intentionally avoiding logic, and ignoring the fact that evolutionarily plants have no reason to feel pain, if they emit a "distress" signal, it is to deter other species so they can reproduce. They are not capable of making decisions, or having thoughts, those are developed over time so animals can use them to choose what to do next. Pain is a feeling a biological gets for their body to notice that something is bad going on, and for them to take action afterward. Although, this whole debate is pointless.. even if plants WERE conscious, and sentient for some weird extreme reason, where they just feel constant pain but can't do anything about it... This would still be in favor of veganism. There is extremely high amounts of plants grown in order to feed cows pigs, etc. By eating meat (who are fed these plants you so care about.) you are eating tons of plants in addition to the meat. (Which contains the protein they got from.... plants)
@Maskon2Fite I specifically said that plants didn't feel pain, I said they felt distress. I never said it was for any type of decision making, I simply said that distress is distress. You are trying to put words in my mouth and assume my stance. My stance on the matter is simply that since there is no such thing as an organism that doesn't give some sort of distress when being slaughtered, then I may as well continue eating both plants and animals.
Cows and chickens are both born about 50% male and female so you would need to treat the male ones well too eventhough they don't produce eggs or milk. A cow has to give birth before it can produce milk, and if you buy a chicken it usually means the male chicks were massacred in the breeding process. So in theory if they are all treated well it could be cruelty free, but I don't see many people taking care fo an equal amount of male and female cows/chickens...
I actually, genuinely, no sarcasm really like the guy. Yes he's made some wild content and said some wild shit back in the day, but I genuinely see the guy as intelligent and I remember the content of his that I watched years ago being enjoyable af and well made and well researched etc, and I assume the stuff he makes now is just as good, if not better. Much love to Vegan Gains, my best mate and BFF on this website.
@@GradeAUnderA hes alot more chilled out now which is kinda sad, i think if you collab or just respond to him you can bring back that peak crazy vegan gains again
Some vegans don’t care as much but others do, like myself. You still have to “farm” the bees, many of these honey bees are invasive/non native and compete with native bees in the area, and also the honey is FOR the bees, they don’t make it for no reason, they eat it. Same with milk, cows don’t make it for no reason, it’s for their calves to drink.
100 years ago this conversation would be a moot point. Sometimes you have to eat animals and their products to survive. Thank your ancestors who did that for your existence today.
Ex-vegan here, I can answer these questions: 1- If you have your own chickens then eating their eggs is fine. I ate them all the time from my friends pet chickens. 2- Yeah of course you can eat roadkill. 3- Dunno Im not religious 4- Mushrooms as far as we are aware, arent conscious.
As a vegan I'm happy that @cjlister8508 gave it ago. It doesn't matter to me that he/she eventually gave it up. Just trying it for a while has a positive impact and any positive impact is a good thing. I salute anyone for trying it. That's more than most people do. See.. we are not all dicks about it. Only a small but vocal amount of us are crazy.
As someone who isn't a vegan, I will speak for vegans and answer some of these questions: Milk: cows actually only produce milk after giving birth to a calf, I believe the problem vegans have is that the milk should be used to feed the calf, also, maybe something about pumping babies into these cows constantly so they are always either pregnant or producing milk Eggs: chickens have actually been selectively bred to produce an unnatural amount and size of eggs, it is VERY taxing on their bodies to do so constantly, just by way of being alive, so it could be argued that even propagating these species of chicken could be seen as exploitative and cruel No involvement: with vegans i think it really is up to the individual how they feel about this, but generally speaking it's not a good idea to eat animals who died of natural causes, and also, realistically, there aren't many of the animals we eat that are still roaming around in nature, it's especially not realistic or sustainable for mass scale meat production God: there is no god lol Mushrooms: the argument isn't that we don't eat meat because they are genetically similar to humans, they don't eat meat because it comes from a conscious being who is capable of experiencing suffering and thought (even at a basic level). As far as we know, mushrooms cannot do this
I've been a vegan for a few years now, gonna try to answer as many of these as best I can for you Grade :D 1. Eggs & Milk: In theory having the locally sourced or non factory farmed milk and eggs should be fine but in my case I haven't had the stuff in so long I just don't want it. Outside of ethics the other two primary motivators for people being vegan are health and environmental reasons (though this one doesn't apply to me as much) and I can attest to being way healthier off milk, eggs and animal products than when I was on them and even when I had a more balanced omnivorous diet. 2. The No Involvement thing: I don't see an issue with this at all, that might not be a popular stance in the vegan community but it makes more sense to utilize what's left (even though nature will dispose of it anyways). 3. Great transition to the ad, as always 4. Religious argument: My motivation is more ethical than religious but if I had to kill an animal for food I'd cry way more at that than dicing up some onions for sure. The idea of me cooking with meat again (even if I don't have to personally kill the animal) is very unsettling now even though I used to do it all the time and that's more psychological than religious but I think it applies to the exact point you made here. 5. Mushrooms: I eat mushrooms but you really might be onto something here. I was at a fancy hotel and there was this event that had a bunch of courses to it, being the only vegan there I got all the revised/improvised/substituted dishes and one of the things they gave me was a mushroom that was laid out like a steak and it was so close to steak (for me) that I still felt weird about eating it even though I knew it wasn't meat just from looking at it. Hope that clears things up Grade, been watching for years but finally am I qualified to speak to these questions that really matter. Looking forward to the other parts :)
@@sandorkarolydeneskarcsi3271 It can be explained that way for sure. I was speaking to Grade's point of how it's harder to cut onions than it is to cook meat and the conditioning we get early on to detach the idea of meat from a corpse or something that was once alive is part of how/why some people see it that way. To your point about needing to cook meat carefully to eat it safely, the issue with any sort of religious dissection of this is you have to account for God's omniscience/omnipotence in a way that's impossible to do. Cooking and preserving meat safely thousands of years ago is way harder than it is to do so now. There's no reason to assume that God's own morality would change with how humans evolve/change so the level of convenience available when it comes to anything that should be morally discouraged shouldn't change. There's also plant foods that we either can't eat raw or micronutrients that don't exist in certain foods without being cooked. I realize there's more nuance to this than 'raw meat bad and (some) raw plants bad' but that's not a level of nuance that ever gets parsed through in a meaningful way so I'm treating it as a straw man just to illustrate my point even though I agree with what you're saying.
First of all I'm vegan and love that this video was made. I'm not here to preach or judge, but this is my reasoning for anyone who wants to know: 2:00 Imagine it was the other way around, and cows and chickens had humans as pets. In order to have their 'pet human' produce milk, they have to have her repeatedly inseminated, give birth, and they then generally have the children taken away shortly after birth. Laying unfertilised eggs is also not a million miles off of miscarriages, and if you've ever spoken to a woman about that experience, it can be incredibly traumatic. Imagine the miscarried baby that is removed is then eaten, and that's kind of how people treat chicken eggs. It's the closest human analogy I could think of anyway. Some facts for you: Cows must be inseminated, give birth, and often have their calf taken away to produce milk for us. Chickens do not naturally produce so many unfertilised eggs, this is a result of human intervention and engineering. How do we know chickens don't suffer emotionally when they lay so many unfertile eggs? 3:40 I'm perfectly ok with exploiting an animal that dies of natural causes. In fact, in survival situations I'm also ok with it and have respect for people who utilise every part of the animal for food or other utilities. Where I draw the line is within our modern society, when it's not a natural situation, we don't 'need' meat or animal products to live, so it just seems unnecessary. 6:00 There might be some merit to this in as much as most mushrooms are probably not meant to be eaten. Personally I very rarely eat mushrooms anyway, most of my protein comes from oats, lentils, beans and nuts.
6:18 That is mostly a technicality. If there were a line dividing plants and animals, mushrooms would be just over the line on the side of animals. Mushrooms can't technically be considered a plant because fungi are not considered plants scientifically, but for the most part, humans share DNA with everything on the planet that has DNA, it all comes down to how much is shared.
Do mushrooms have consciousness? Can they feel pain? Do they have a set of emotions? Do they have a capability to feel physical or emotional suffering? For animals the answer to all of these is yes. For mushrooms... well I'm sure you're clever enough to figure that one out :)
@@jspau Perhaps, on the smallest of levels, but I don't think so. I was just pointing out a technicality among the science community. Botanists have shown that the mycelium of fungi have a very basic communication network, so on some extremely basic level, there is a conscious, but that argument can be made for any living thing on Earth. Plants are considered living, but not sentient. Sentients has very specific criteria that needs to be met, and mushrooms do not, by any means, meet those criteria.
@@jspaubro if you've ever done magic mushrooms you may come to think differently on their consciousness....and you still won't give af because that's the natural cycle of life 😂
@@omniXenderman I have done mushrooms before. I understand that feeling of 'life' and connectedness, but that's completely different to a sentient being that can experience extreme pain and suffering, emotional distress, and has a will to be free from harm.
@@jspaufor all we know plants. Can feel more than we Can. Just because they dont have a nervous system like us doesnt mean they cant feel. There are weirdee things going on in This world.
One thing I’ve always wanted to ask a vegan is how the hell they get protein without eating 100 different kind of nuts to make up for a burger or some shit
The official recommendation for protein is only 50g. 100g pasta and 100g lentils will get you close to that. I lift so I go for 150g, so I add in a scoop of protein powder and sometimes a meat substitute. It's really not difficult, and if you're buying whole foods then it's usually cheaper per gram of protein than meat
Tofu, seitan, other soy products like soy milk and edamame, legumes, beans, texturized vegetable protein, there’s also plant based protein powders too for the gym, etc. just to name a few. Most meat eaters actually get too much protein, and it’s pretty hard to be “deficient” in protein unless you’re literally starving yourself because it’s in a lot of foods
Not a vegan, but legumes have a lot of protein and also tofu and other soy products. If you dont want to be a bodybuilder then this will be enough. If you want to be a bodybuilder you might need some protein shakes, but non vegan bodybuilders drink those too, so its not much of a difference
Hi, answering ur questions nicely:) 1. Milk only comes from cows that have babies so by taking the milk the baby doesn't anything to eat anymore. Factories usually just throw babies away in the trash to r0t, farmers usually take care of them and give them artificial milk but not all of them so finding a good farmer being tricky sometimes a lot of people just prefer to keep it safe and not drink milk at all. The eggs being the unborn baby, yes those are just cells it s not the actual baby but i guess it s just a weird concept it seems to us like eating the placenta, plus once again factories are terriblle about it they force chickens to stay in small cages all day and night never seeing the sun, and if a baby chicken accidentaly hatches and it s a male some factories will once again throw them in the trash. 2. If there was no involvement and people would eat animals after they have already di3d that would have been fine i guess but no one does that, because the proccess of them dying naturally is too long for the mass of the people that want to eat meat so it is sorta impossiblle they have to shorten their lifespan so they can get enough for the fast production 3. My religion isn t vegan but about the onion part it s a self defense mechanism the onion developed, even if unconcious plants cand develop self defense mechanisms the way roses have spins. It s probable at some point they were closing to exctinction or at least in some zones and all life self conscious or not is equipped to evolve for sruvival 4. Mushrooms are also not conscious they don t have a brain, nor do they feel pain or fear or anything that animals(humans) feel And lastly being vegan/vegetarian is not an easy process but we do it because we care about animals and the planet, ofc us a few won t save them or the planet but it s about our morals the way carnivores would probably not eat another human or something😅 plus it is our duty to try to do our best at being good people and reducing as less as possiblle, even if it is by small steps:) and i m sorry if we seem scary sometimes it s just when u care about something so much and no one listens you start to get defensive, i m here to answer more questions if anyone has them❤
i’m not vegan but i’ve listened to a lot of vegans ideas on these subjects so i can try answer the questions. 1. eggs and milk: some vegans believe that eating eggs from a rescued backyard hen is ok because it does not harm the animal and is therefore ethical. the youtuber The Unnatural Vegan speaks about this. The problem is if you buy the hen from a regular farm, you are contributing to an unethical system. to sell “vegan” eggs could also be seen as unethical because at that point you are exploiting the animal for profit and the idea is that it is a slippery slope to unethical behavior (i don’t really care for this argument.) milk on the other hand is always unethical because cows only produce milk when they have just had a baby and the cows milk is for the calf. the act of getting a cow pregnant through artificial insemination is also seen as unethical as it is invasive. 2. dead cow on the road: that is called free-ganism and some people do it with roadkill or animal products that would have been thrown out otherwise 3.mushrooms: mushrooms are not sentient and vegan. fun fact: neither are oysters. some vegans will eat them.
The first answer is ridiculous there's nothing unethical about either eggs or milk . Being a vegan for sustainability is reasonable but to do it for "animal welfare" or health is crazy
@@double6530 There’s probably more suffering involved in the production of eggs and milk than meat. As was pointed out in the OP’s comment, some vegans don’t have an ethical issue with consuming eggs under specified circumstances, which is also my view. However, achieving those specified circumstances in practice is very unlikely, due to many hurdles that one would need to get over. Truly ethically sourced egg consumption (not the ones marketed as such) wouldn’t even be able to feed billions of people anyway, and the ones that could achieve it, eggs wouldn’t be a staple part of their diet anyway, since those chickens wouldn’t have been selectively bred for excessive egg production. As for milk, yeah I don’t see how that can be ethical. Mammals can only produce milk when they have babies for their babies. To have milk, one needs to either sexually violate a cow or steal a cow’s breastmilk from her baby. I struggle to see the ethical permissibility in that.
eggs your kinda right because they do lay eggs naturally but to have them lay every morning is essentially forcing them to be on their period constantly which is unpleasant at best so having your own chickens and treating them properly produces SOME eggs but not enough for it it be like a staple in your diet as for milk: like all other mammals, cows only lactate when they have a baby so dairy farms make their cows pregnant then separate the babies from the mothers, which is distressing for both, then take all the cows milk while they either fatten up and kill the baby or have it produce milk too. there's not really a reliable and kind way to get milk
Both of those are staples in the diet of sooooo many people around the world who keep their own farms and don't buy groceries. But I guess we're only speaking about the West and nothing else.
@@A_DuckyThey can only be staples due to selectively breeding animals for hyperactive reproductive systems, which takes a huge toll on their bodies, and in the case of cows, will require the separation of their babies. It doesn’t matter how “nicely” you treat them, their very existence is suffering, and they shouldn’t have been bred into existence to begin with. Eggs in theory might be ethically sourced, however, there are so many hurdles to get by that it is extremely unlikely to actually be achieved in practice, and it certainly couldn’t feed billions of people. Only a very, very small fraction of the population could ethically consume eggs. Moreover, placing market value on animal byproducts runs the risk of balancing business interests to compete against important animal welfare interests. History has shown us that this is a dangerous game to play, corporations and businesses end up cutting corners and trying to maximize profits, so it might be best to play it safe and view animals as living with us rather than here for us.
@@johnchesterfield9726 Again, you're referring to methods only used in the West. Plenty of villages in Eastern Europe and in other places across the world farm grow happy cows and imo we wouldn't be here had our ancestors been vegan. So thank all the meat eaters in tiny villages throughout the centuries for your/my very existence.
@@A_Ducky No, I’m not only referring to Western practices, these practices are literally inherent to milk production. You just can’t produce milk ethically, because it _necessarily entails_ stealing breastmilk from a baby, and if you want constant milk production, this _necessarily entails_ forcibly impregnating a cow to keep her pregnant and lactating. These aren’t just Western practices, they are necessary and required for ALL milk production. There is no such thing as “happy cows” when going through the process of stealing their breastmilk that was intended for their babies, NOT humans.
@@johnchesterfield9726 I genuinely wish you could go to a small village once. So what about when cows have too much milk for the calf to use? Just let them suffer? Have you ever been bloated, lol.
Vegans don't eat anything that comes from an animal, which includes eggs and milk, but a vegetarian can become it's not meat it's a byproduct. In my opinion, that's how I see difference.
Always good to see a new Grade A video!! Haven't been vegan for ages, but to clarify, the thing about animal milk is that it only comes from females who are constantly kept pregnant or recently given birth, to stimulate milk production. If Males are born to a dairy animal they aren't wanted/ needed, so are killed within hours. Same with eggs. Only females lay eggs, so half of the babies are gassed or smothered to death, once they have been identified as male. So although the animal/ bird isn't killed for the milk/eggs, there's still a ton of death and awful practices that are involved with milk and egg production. 🤷🏻♀️ Just my two cents. PS: Vegan milk and egg substitutes already exist, you can buy them at the supermarket! 😁👍 PPS: I know you already know all thos, probably, but may be of use to other folks who don't 😁👍
3 questions: do any plant milks replace more specific facets of milk like fermentation for cheeses/yogurt and baking needs. And what are vegan eggs made of? Also what are they like
Thanks for spreading this, it's so crazy that most people genuinely don't understand how bad dairy and egg farming. They think it's all sunshine and rainbows for the animals, literally
Vegan here. I can answer these questions: 1. Even if you have eggs and milk obtained without harming the animals, you’re still taking something that doesn’t belong to you. Without their consent. And you’d ultimately be taking care of the animals as a means to an end to extract their resources instead of for selfless reasons. Vegans believe conscious animals should not be treated as property. 2. Most vegans believe it’s fine to eat naturally deceased animals. But it’s a pretty useless hypothetical unless you’re lost in the wild, because eating what’s already dead is pretty unsanitary. 3. It doesn’t matter if fungi are more closely related to animals. Mushrooms can’t feel pain, and they show no sign of having a conscious experience. So there’s no good reason to think they can be exploited or harmed in any way.
I would like to add to your first point. Cows do not produce milk just for fun. They produce milk in order to feed their children, so if a cow is not pregnant for a few months, they stop producing milk. And in order to "get the most out of them" they have to be impregnated again, without giving their body a rest. Cows are rather emotional creatures, so forcing them into labour all the time is pretty cruel. Industry cows can produce up to 7 galleons or 27 Litres a day, so they have to be milked multiple times a day, which makes their udder sore. This can lead to pus and blood. So most countries have to regulate the amout of blood and pus that is allowed in milk
well, here's another question, what do you do with the products these animals make. you can't just not milk a cow, nor just waste the eggs and milk. what do you do with it???? I have an understanding of some cows making milk even without having calves, and chickens make eggs without fertilizing them, so what do you do with it??
I will counter your guys because there are things that happen if you don't milk a cow. They will get brushes on their utters, it will get them sick, and they can even die if you don't milk them.
@@TheAussieShalien A lot of these animals only exist because farmers have forcibly bred them into existence. Vegan would be opposed to the forcible breeding of animals in order to use them to our ends. Cows are mammals, and all mammals produce milk to nourish their babies. Thus, they can only lactate after they are pregnant. Without forcible breeding, they won’t lactate as much, so we won’t need to worry about what to do with the milk. If they have bred through natural means, then we just let them use the milk for its intended biological purpose; so that their babies can breastfeed. Humans have absolutely no need to milk cows. As for hens, they have been selectively bred for hyperactive reproductive systems, and so they lay an excess of 250-300 eggs per year. By comparison, wild hens only lay eggs during breeding season, which comes out to 10-15 eggs per year. Hens deplete some calcium every time they produce and push out eggs, so feeding eggs back to the hens can help them recover some of the lost calcium. If we assume someone is caring for a genetically unmodified hen, there won’t be much surplus eggs, but if there is, then as long as the hens aren’t defensive over their eggs, then it may be ethically acceptable to eat some of those surplus eggs. However, actually achieving all these specific circumstances in practice is radically unlikely, and if it is achievable, it would only feed a very minuscule fraction of the population, and eggs wouldn’t even be a large part of their diet anyway.
1:10 When an egg doesn't hatch, the hen will cannibalize the egg to gain back that nutrition. When we take those eggs, we take away that nutrition from the hen. Now, in industrial hatcheries, it's mostly the same for egg laying hens in the US. 1. Laying eggs is very taxing on the hens body when they aren't being fed properly. 2. Hens are held in battery cages not tall enough to allow them to stand and not wide enough to allow the to shift left or right. 3. Caged hens are fed nutritionally void corn, like most industrial livestock. This causes them severe malnutrition. 4. Uncaged hens have their beaks cut off and burnt so they can't peck other hens to death. This also makes it very hard for the hens to feed. 5. In industrial egg farms, the male chicks and female chicks are separate and the male chicks are put into a grinder and turned into chicken nuggets or chicken patties. 6. At a certain point the hens stop laying eggs and they are starved to force molting and the final eggs are laid by these hens. When the hen dies, they're slaughtered for meat and sold to fast food chains and supermarkets.
@@thephilosophyminor Are you implying that it is solely a human concept? Then why do mother bears get so aggressive when their cubs are approached? Why do alligators get so much more aggressive when their nest is approached? How about eagles and hawks and falcons? Why are hippopotami so territorial? Or rhinoceros? You know what? Take your pick. Name me one sentient being that has zero concept of ownership.
I'll answer the questions as someone who's basically vegan. 1:07 to 1:30 - *(1) Why not eggs and milk?* The conditions often used to acquire them in factory farming are far from humane, but if instead the animals putting out milk and eggs lived happy idyllic lives under the best of conditions and vegans knew this (e.g., the vegans did that themselves), I think would-be vegans would have a much different attitude about it; _I_ certainly would! 3:12 to 3:37 - *(2) No involvement, cow just drops dead, no funding of exploitation or suffering.* My thoughts: yeah I think this would be fine to eat the animal in that case. 5:40 to 6:01 - *(3) Why cry when we cut onions, but not chickens?* Fortunately I have a philosophy degree which allows me to give this erudite response: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But seriously, suppose God, a creator whose mind infinitely transcends ours, exists (as I think he probably does). Because the chasm between the infinite and the finite is so unfathomably vast, we can't reasonably expect to understand the "why" behind everything God does (perhaps even _most_ things) any more than we can reasonably expect an ant to understand why the sun gives off heat. So I don't know why, but perhaps we shouldn't expect to know why. 6:04 to 6:07 - *(4) Can vegans eat mushrooms?* Yes. Mushrooms are like plants in their degree of non-sentience. Suppose arguendo that mushrooms are more genetically similar to animals than to plants; even if true, this is morally irrelevant. *Conclusion:* I can't speak for all vegans, but many vegans are like me in that it's more of a pragmatic thing vis-à-vis animal suffering. _Ceteris paribus_ if we can acquire adequate nutrition without contributing to unnecessary suffering, it is morally better to acquire nutrition that way. In the special cases of e.g., a cow just dropping dead, or chickens laying eggs when they are uniformly treated super-nicely etc. the principle that would normally apply (as in the case of factory farming) doesn't, but these are special cases that the typical vegan isn't likely to encounter. For most practical purposes, veganism is the way to go.
1:07 Mainly because the milk is meant for the calf, not for humans. Now, I don't know about other countries, but in the US, dairy cows are treated like a piece of farm equipment. The cows have to be pregnant or recently given birth to produce milk and the feeding of the calf is quite short, so.... 1. Cows have to be artificially inseminated and impregnated to continue producing milk. 2. Most dairy farms immediately isolate the calf and mother so they can pump as much milk as possible for sale. 3. Veal calves are strapped down by chains less that 6 inches to keep them from standing and using their muscles. 4. Pregnancy is very harsh nutritionally and physically on any species of animal, but dairy cows have it the worst because they are being fed a 100% diet of untreated corn, which is nutritionally void. 5. Industrial dairy cows are milked almost 24 hours a day. They don't get to roam a pasture and get milked when they need it. Those pumps are hooked up to their utters almost all the time. 6. Because those pumps are hooked up to them, the cows get a constant drip of antibiotics because of how infected their utters are. 7. The FDA has criteria for an FDA Allowable percentage of puss in all dairy products because "it would cost the dairy industry to much to pay a person to remove the pumps and wash the cows utters before and after pumping on a daily basis." Dairy cows usually give out and dry up by year five where they are put up for slaughter, but by that time their bodies are anorexic and frail. That is no way for any living being to live. Drinking milk was only a thing when farmers didn't have the means to make cheese out of the little milk the cow still produces after the calf is whined, that milk production is very painful for the cow, but not as painful as being an industrial dairy cow.
yep, thats how cows make their milk. don't see why people consider it bad now but i assume the emergence of the funny rainbow pronouns got something to do with it.
1) Eggs and Milk are unethical because of factory farming practices, which is how basically everyone gets them. Cows have to be pregnant to make milk and then have their calf taken so that it doesn’t drink all the milk. Chickens usually just live in absolute horrible conditions. Being said if it was practical at all, which it isn’t, vegans would happily eat their own backyard animal’s secretions, given there was a surplus. 2) Road kill is a million percent vegan, just kinda nasty. 3) Mushrooms aren’t sentient, and if they were, they are less sentient than any animal
Is there a border between sentient/ non- sentient life? Mushrooms are fair game, in my book, but for example, would you use natural sponges? They are technically animals, yet have no nervous system (unable to feel pain) and are not made from plastic, like industrially made sponges.
The cows aren't taken because they drink all the milk. The calves are taken because it's considered a waste to let them drink the milk - holstein cows, for example, produce 40L per day and there's no way that a calf will finish that. So they take the calves away and continue milking the cows to keep their profits going.
I'm a vegan and I think its perfectly fine to eat ethically sourced eggs and milk or meat from natural deaths of animals and I agree that some vegans are inconsistent with the purpose of veganism. I couldn't tell if the point about mushrooms was entirely a joke or not but I would say its not the genetic closeness that is relevant, its the capacity to suffer and flourish that is relevant and mushrooms can't feel pain and don't have emotions so they cant suffer in any morally relevant way.
@@TheOfficialVeganismExposed Okay, so let me get this straight. You made an entire channel dedicated to taking clips of when one vegan says something crazy and named your channel “TheOfficialVeganismExposed”? Why would one vegan saying something crazy undermine the vegan philosophy? This would be like saying anti-racism has been exposed because here is one crazy anti-racist who says crazy things.
It's probably a good thing if he's genuinely asking. I mean, vegan gains is considered quite crazy among vegans.. if he's serious about learning these answers he'd listen to someone like Earthling Ed or Joye Carbstrong.. not vegangains or that vegan teacher
@@TheOfficialVeganismExposed bro get a life. You are so obsesses with a single dude and so desperate to somehow grow a youtube channel that is based 100% on negativity and has 0% actually creative content lmao
Hilarious as hell, here a few "serious" comments from my perspective because the idea of "vegan milk and eggs" is kind of interesting: Eggs: IMO opinion, that's completely achievable. Chickens will lay unfertilized eggs and you can just collect them and use them. They are a product of the chicken just existing and indeed, if you keep them in your garden and treat them well, throwing away the eggs you get for free for "vegan reasons" would be batshit crazy IMO. They could not even ever turn into chicks, because they are not fertilized. Its just a small gift the chicken made for you, they are truly "vegan eggs" in the way you define it. Milk: As much as I love milk, this one is more tricky. Before you get milk out of the cow, she must give birth to a calf. The calf then needs to be separated from the mother cow, so we can take the milk and that lactation period lasts for about 10 months only. So you end up with having to get her pregnant again. So you have to make a calf per year in average and always separate it from the other, or it will consume most of the milk. Bit trickier here, as the milk is not a "free product from the cow just existing". No involvement: In fact there are people who eat roadkill, like pheasants and stuff that has just died in accidents. It just sounds a bit icky but if its collected fresh, there is no difference to just hunting and it will make a delicious snack. But this will never go mainstream for many reasons lol. If a cow or something just dies, its mostly so old that the meat is inedible, or it had a disease in which case you often also don't want to consume it.
Acording to my vegan girlfriend, chickens often eat the eggs to reabsorb the calcium used to make them. I find that a little odd as they must get the calcium from their food, so they dont need it back
@@andrewjones1615 yeah that's really just vegans inventing stuff around at this point. chickens who get proper nutrition won't eat their own eggs, they will just lay around till they rot (sources: neighbour who had chickens for years, wife who had chickens throughout her childhood and google search)
@@andrewjones1615They only do that because they need the majority of calcium to produce eggs. If they eat eggs its because you have wasted them and they are not about to. Plus the calcium is almost entirely in the shell. So just give them the shells, this is what I do.
Answers from a vegan: 1) yeah, that’s true. You can have a vegan barbecue if you wanna eat an animal that dies naturally. But that limits your sources to roadkill unless you wanna eat plagued or parasite-filled meat. I think vegans don’t address this because they don’t wanna incentivize people to make more roadkill and sell it as “vegan meat” at the farmer’s market 😂 You could have vegan milk and eggs too- but that doesn’t exist, unfortunately. I’d drink a shit-load of milk if I could find it from a farmer who doesn’t kill all the male cows, cut the horns off the females, and take their mother’s milk from the babies who rightfully should have it and let them all roam the fields, playing around, but wait a sec- no I wouldn’t, because to make that cost-effective, you’d have to sell that for more than it’s worth. 2) most people do feel worse cutting into a LIVE chicken than into an onion. That’s why AG-GAG laws exist and no one can bare to even watch a video of what goes on in the factories where their dinner comes from. Also, on literally the first page of the Bible, God explicitly states that (in the perfect, unfallen world, of course) plants were the only thing to be eaten. He doesn’t reverse course on that until after the flood, presumably because there was a scarcity of eatable plants… but there was also a scarcity of animals, so that makes no sense lmao 3) veganism has nothing to do with DNA. It’s about cruelty mitigation. I would eat my own arm if I would otherwise starve to death. If they could clone meat from me, and that cloned meat didn’t have a nervous system and it definitely didn’t feel like anything to be it, then vegans could, in principle, eat that in good conscience. It may feel like something to be *on* mushrooms, but it probably doesn’t feel like anything to be one, cos they don’t have nerves or a centralized system thereof, so grill ‘em up
My comment disappeared, i dunno. Here is the revisioned comment. smh I disagree. Milk and eggs cannot be vegan unless you randomly found it on the ground and you are sure 100% it's abandoned. It's not all about slaughter, it's also about informed consent, which non-humans cannot give. Hence why egg and dairy farms cannot be ethical. Especially if there is economic incentive!! And it is also why riding horses is wrong. For me veganism is not cruelty mitigation, that's kinda utilitarian, for me veganism is about giving the animals the basic rights they deserve, that is *not being exploited for anything* and not abusing them.
I'm only vegetarian, but I can give simple answers to your questions: Question 1: "Why not eat animal products when they are ethically sourced?" (this is rephrasing the question to only include the part that you have an actual objection with. Why consuming milk and eggs under normal circumstances is problematic was already answered by yourself) The answers that I can come up with are: - When I started going vegetarian, I missed meat very much. Since then, my taste has changed, and the last time someone tried to force me to eat an animal, it almost made me puke. I can imagine it's somewhat similar for vegans still feeling "icky" when wearing animal skin or eating animal eggs, though it's hard to picture. If eating meat making someone puke is hard to picture for you: Imagine eating a meal and someone explains to you that the chewy bits that are everywhere are actually the cockroaches that they put in the meal. They put in extra many just for you, and go on to explain that cockroaches are actually man's natural food source. - It's hard to go through with a rule when the rule becomes too complicated. It's often easier to explain as "I don't eat animal products" than to say "I only consume animal products when nothing had to suffer for it, and no, your greenwashed 4m² free range pig meat is not an example of ethical sourcing" - I imagine "ethical" products and unethical ones having a shared market. If vegans completely occupy the former, then everyone else who doesn't care will only go with the latter. This way, you still have your decisions correlate to animal suffering even if you yourself only buy the "ethical" option. And the ethical market just growing alongside the increased demand doesn't exactly work, because acquiring the products ethically consumes more resources than it would take to cover the demand. The latter reason is also why I'm totally fine with going to my grandparents and eating the eggs that their chickens laid, since they will neither be selling their eggs nor buying more eggs from the store if I eat too many, but I feel conflicted about buying eggs from the store. Question 2: This is a question that I also deal with pretty frequently. For example, someone else will accidentally order for 10 animals to be killed when they only really needed the meat of 1, so now we have the corpses of the 9 animals that didn't need to be killed and need some way to deal with those. But the answers are basically the same as for question 1. Question 3: God loves the smell of foreskin and burning animals. Clearly, animals don't have souls and it's fine to torture and kill them and that's why they're so similar to humans. But to give a more serious answer that I hope is consistent with what religious people believe: God didn't really design life, he just gave the first spark. So it's just coincidence that onions are spicy for the eyes and our bodies look like they were designed by a 5 year old on LSD. Question 4: Plants are fine to eat, even for hardcore vegans. Therefore, something that is "closer" to humans than plants are can also be fine to eat, and there's no contradiction. By your same logic, this would be a valid argument: "Ice cubes are fine to eat. According to SCIENCE, plants are more similar to humans than ice cubes are. Therefore, you can't actually eat plants." On top of that, a thing's similarity to humans isn't exactly the rule that most people use to judge it as worthy of moral consideration. Instead, you'd care about something's conscious experience. Similarity to humans can be a decent approximation of that up to a point, but obviously, you can't have that without a brain or something with a similar function, and therefore, mushrooms aren't worthy of moral consideration.
Nice video man, I totally get the questions, so as a vegan I can answer 1) 1:26 You’re absolutely right, if animals were taken care of and not killed, milk and eggs would be perfectly justified. But here’s the thing, most farms don’t do this. Here’s how it works, you’re a farmer and on cow has some kids, half are male, half are female. That means you have half of your cows actually providing income but the other half don’t provide anything. As a result you’re probably going to sell those male cows, that then end up in a slaughter house, which we don’t approve of. The same applies to chickens, that being said, there are certain farms that actually don’t sell/kill any of their animals and we’re perfectly okay with that. In an ideal world we could fund large scale kill free cow farms, but unfortunately taking care of such a large population of animals isn’t cheap, so it’s better to just cut out dairy all together. Maybe if genetic engineering gets to the point we’re you can choose the gender of the cow’s offspring this would change, this would work. But right now we can’t afford these farms on a large scale. Chickens on the other hand are different. You can raise a small family of chickens in your backyard and they’ll produce eggs on their own. So yes there could easily be lots of vegan chicken farms, but again if a make chicken is born, most of the time they’re being sent to a slaughter house. 2) 3:18 The animal can’t suffer and you didn’t cause any suffering so really it’s only entitled to the right of respect we would give to anything else that’s dead. So honestly yeah, if animal died by natural causes go wild. 3) 5:43 I get this is a joke but I’ll go ahead and talk about the “It’s natural” justification anyways in case you were curious. Yes humans are supposed to kill animals, but nature is kind of… I can’t say anything or else RUclips will delete my comment but when dolphins mate; male dolphins will gang up on a female dolphin and not ask for permission, in order to make more dolphins, if she says no they’ll bite and beat her until she does. If a female lion with cubs meets a new male lion who she mates with, the new male lion will game end the lion’s cubs so that his genes are the ones that are past on. Put it simply nature is cruel and if you want to say “Eating animals is nature’s plan” then you should also be okay with doing some horrifying things not even criminals loud be okay with. 4) 6:15 Computers can do some amazing things but they don’t have any capacity to suffer. They don’t have anything in their hardware that allows them to cry or be scared, the same goes for fungi. If you were to make an animal replica in a lab, complete with functioning organs but no brain at all, just a meat statue. Then eating this animal would be okay as it can’t suffer. Nice vid see you for part 2
Honestly thanks for this. My brother turned vegan about a year ago and is actually doing great bmi wise. Was curious about these questions as well since, being a Texas civilian, eating meat here is just the way here lol
You are not a fucking vegan. What the fuck does the animal being killed have to do with being against the exploitation to begin with? Why are there so many of you weirdos pretending to be vegan and saying stupid shit?
For question #1, a lot of vegan families also avoid eating animal products because you can acheive the same levels of calcium in milk and protein in eggs in other vegan-friendly foods. My girlfriend and her family and vegan, and for them, they understand that if they raised their own animals with their own ethics that they may be more inclined to eat animal products, but they are not in a position to do so due to their own lack of land for raising animals. It's a complicated, nuanced ethical dilemma that has a different answer for every family and every situation. Most vegans will answer your questions as long as you aren't intentionally antagonizing them and aren't deliberately trying to find hypocrisy in their lifestyle. Be respectful. EDIT: typo
Exactly our species has existed for 100,000's of years, millions if you consider more primitive versions. And yet we've only been consuming dairy from other animals for less than 10,000 years.
- "Most vegans will answer your questions as long as you aren't intentionally antagonizing them and aren't deliberately trying to find hypocrisy in their lifestyle. Be respectful." It's on them to be respectful, and respect is not something most vegans are willing to even consider. Antagonizing others is the main part of why people despise them so much. So yeah, *be respectful.*
That's the thing, we don't know the answers to many of these questions because "it's the same to eat other forms of protein". No one asked about that. At all. We all know that already, if past like 7th grade. But why though? What's wrong with eating an egg a happy chicken made?
@@garibaldi54 More primitive humans definitely hunted and ate meat. And 10,000 years is not a sneeze, no matter how much we see it as such when compared to 100,000 years.
@@schnek8927I wish your experience with veganism wasn't no negative- I've met countless vegans in college and never have any of them shown animosity towards meat eaters and their lifestyle. I think part of it may be the internet's ability to bloat extreme opinions. Glad we can agree on the importance of respect from both parties, though.
Literally what I'm doing now. I have 12 grade videos to watch rn, I like to let him build up videos without me watching them for the sole purpose of binging them.
I don't care what you think., I'm saying it. Red Pandas are real Pandas, they had the name first. Panda isn't a specific group or anything, hasn't beem since the 50s. We found the Red Panda, thought it was cute, then we found the Giant Panda, thought it was cute, thought the two were related(which they ARE, both Caniforms, just not nearly as closely as we thought), called em both Pandas, then it turned out the Red Panda was in it's own little side group and the Giant Panda was a bear. So Panda isn't a specific group anymore, just two animals happen to have that name now. And Red Panda was in the door first.
Anyone using vegangains or thatvegan teacher as a spoke person for vegans is just unfair. I mean, they are considered pretty crazy even among vegans... if you're seriously interested in animal ethics you'd listen to the likes of Earthling Ed or Joye Carbstrong or Debugyourbrain.. not that vegan teacher or vegangains...
@@clw906 I sure would love to see people try to respond to vegans such as debugyourbrain, earthling ed, and old Alex O’ Connor. But no, it never happens, because it’s much easier to pick the handful of crazies to make veganism look weaker.
@@estelasayeed5608 Joye? He's not crazy he's just assertive, he never says stuff like 'oh kill all carnivorous'. He's just not as calm as Earthling Ed, but everything he says is just what's actually happening to animals, he doesn't sugar coat it.
As a vegan (and a grade fan don’t mean this as an attack to u grade) I not finished the video yet but as for the first point on eggs and milk. It’s not just about cruelty. Cows milk is for their babies. Not for us to take from them and consume for ourselves the same way that when humans have babies and produce breast milk. That milk is for the baby not to be sold off for someone else to drink. Also the other reason is several dairy farms also sell to the meat trade or even also farm meat themselves so it’s about not giving our money to fund anything that traces back to the meat trade. Hope this answers ur question a bit and again it’s really all love 😭🖤
To produce milk, the cow needs to have a calf. Calves are basically half female , half males... what do you think happens to the boys? Eggs are ok if the chicken has acces to freedom.
Okay here’s how I would answer: 1. I don’t have a problem with raising a cow for milk if they’re treated well and get to live out their life (assuming they’re not from a farm that slaughters the male cows). Raising a hen for eggs is questionable, as they sometimes suffer from bone deficiencies that could be solved by feeding their eggs to them. 2. I and most vegans I’ve heard of don’t have an issue eating a cow who drops dead. Gary Yourofsky, a well known animal rights activist, even called eating roadkilled animals a “loophole”. 3. I’m not religious, but religious people don’t have an issue eating animals in a survival situation. So if I wanted to create animals where people only ate them in a survival situation, I would make their flesh a carcinogen that raises the risk of cancer and heart problems and their flesh a food poisoning risk when it’s raw (which in my opinion is worse than making you cry). 4. Yes because mushrooms don’t have a brain and central nervous system or any first person experience of the world.
So, here are my answers for this: 1) Eggs and milk require the death of almost all male chicks and calves. Male chicks generally get thrown in a meat grinder and male calves of milk cows don't give enough meat if you raise them, because they've been bred for milk production, so get slaughtered very early, because you would lose a lot of money raising them. Even if you bought the cows and chicken, you would be buying them from people who do the above mentioned things to their male chicks and calves. So eggs and milk are inextricably linked to animal death. In practice they almost always involve a lot of suffering for the cows and chicken too. 2) Personally I think it's completely fine to eat animals that died on their own. 3) I am not religious. 4) Mushrooms, as far as I know, have no capacity to suffer, so eating them is fine. I don't care how closely related something is to humans.
@@VariantAEC No, because humans can suffer. Did you not read the sentence right before that? Eating a dead human is also bad, because of how it affects you and their relatives psychologically, not because their genes are similar to yours.
Interesting video, as a vegan myself, I'll reply to these questions! :D (hopefully RUclips spam detection doesn't delete my replies here... I replied to myself 7 times for reference)
1. The egg industry does not require male chicks to prosper, so they instead grind them alive (not a joke) And cows do die for the production of milk, typically they are the same cows that are used for meat, and buying milk supports both. In addition, death isn't the only concern, in order to get the milk, we have to genetically select them over time to have increasingly larger utters, so we can get more milk out of them, and at birth, baby cows are separated from their mothers, which causes grief
Same with chickens you raise personally, and cows, they are typically genetically modified, and if not, they need those eggs and milk anyways, there's no ethical way to take that from them, and there's no nice way to genetically modify them. To get milk from a cow, you need to get them pregnant, and take their child. And when chickens have an egg with no chick, they actually need that egg to be fed back to them, or they'll lose protein
2. This point is a little bit irrelavent, nobody really makes this point, and veganism is reduction of suffering typically, eating a random peice of roadkill is not exactly immoral
Most vegetarians don't have their own pet cows or their own chickens. They buy it from the supermarket, all those cows will be killed at 5 years old, chickens even earlier. They are selectively bred breeds, have a ton of health issues and pretty miserable lives. Honestly I'd rather be a beef cow than a dairy cow
Here's some copypasta I wrote regarding mushrooms, Everything has a level of sentience up to an extent, sentience is always physically created by the interaction of different things, in animals it's the signals from the neurons interacting with other neurons, this creates a very high level of sentience because it's a very complex system, a watch has gears that move in relation to each other, there is wobble and play in the mechanism which affects timing, this also creates a very very almost non existent level of consciousness, a worm has a low level of consciousness, because of how simple they are, yet they are more conscious than chatgpt which has trillions of neurons, more than a human. The brain of a worm was fully mapped and simulated to a computer, and even though it only had a couple hundreds of neurons it was more sentient than chatgpt, because it was able to experience "reality" continuously, chatgpt only thinks in the moment, it's architecture physically cant allow it to be sentient, it can be self aware without being sentient. Plants and mushrooms are very simple they send signals but not in a way that could give arise to any meaningfull type of experience. Consciousness isn't an abstract thing it's objective and quantifiable, there is no guessing whether or not something is conscious/sentient/whatever, it's just a matter of finding out what it objectively is. If anyone has ambiguity about this they just don't understand the science
arent humans also made out of meat and food? so by that logic, if HUMANS arent supposed to be eaten, why are they made out of food? because its CANNIBILISM if you do so. checkmate
There is a difference between the "Vegan Lifestyle" and the "Vegan Diet" People on the Vegan Diet: "im not eating any meat or anything from any animals." People on the Vegan Lifestyle: "IM BETTER THAN YOU BECAUSE IM VEGAN DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY ANIMALS DIE BECAUSE OF YOUR...." and so on
I mean you could answer this to pretty much anything right, how do you eat a puppy? How do you eat a baby? A funny dark humour response but still doesn't justify the act
@@allandm My comment was a light mockery of the people who respond with the same thing, word-for-word, whenever they enter into an argument with a vegan on social media. It's the equivalent of telling a trans person, "I identify as an attack helicopter." It has been overused so much that it's past the point of being unfunny and is simply lame.
You answer your first question. You know there are vegans in New York City that eat meat? They're homeless and they've created an elaborate underground food Network to help keep the impoverished alive. People who are in this community are commonly both a vegan and eat the meat that they find because they subsist only off of the waste of businesses. If they weren't there to pull it out of the bag and eat it it would have gone to waste so they ration they should eat it.
1. For cows: cows don't randomly produce milk, only during and shortly after pregnancy. "backyard milk" requires the constant production of more cows - what are you going to do with your growing family? Build an ever larger ranch so that they can play ps5 in peace? The veal industry is a by-product of the milk industry - the reality is that the offspring of milk cows have to be killed, otherwise the population would be growing uncontrollably. Backyard chickens are a more complex issue, but the short answer is that the life of a modern egg-laying hen is not a good life. Plus, there's the uncomfortable question with what you do with the 50% of chickens that come out male and will never lay eggs. In reality, they're mostly killed. 2. Most people (besides those that consider life/bodies to be "sacred" in some way, which is religious woo and not a widely held belief) consider roadkill to be vegan, assuming you didn't do something to intentionally bring about the animal's death. It's gross, but it's vegan. 3. Jesus is made up and not related to veganism. 4. Mushrooms aren't sentient creatures. Anecdotes about their DNA aside, I don't think you (or anyone) believes this argument in good faith and I won't waste any time on it.
as an indigenous man, i was firmly taught to never waste an animal's body. every part would be used, and nothing could be discarded. this is infinitely more respectful than just wasting an entire animal carcass or, even bigger picture, refusing to eat the food put on the land for us lol
my dad is a vegan but he has an immune system problem and animal protiens worsen his condition, he is not annoying about it or something he just eats with us when we are eating meat and just has some meat replacements instead of real meat so it still feels like we are eating toghether
Well, that could make sense, if one person has a problem issue and must not eat animal products because of it.. But problem is why to be aggressive towards other for eating animal products? It is like a some sort of cult more than it is a solution for health issues. xD
ONE question i do have for vegans, is why (some) of them dont want to eat honey, because it "exploits" bees. but if you look into it, bees actually consent in you taking part of their honey, as they are technically free roam, and can leave at any point if they feel their owner is cruel to them
Please don't use a picture of furries to represent zoophiles, noone hates zoophiles more than furries.. :O Anywho, as an actual vegan, lemme do my best to answer these questions (yes, I am aware this video is meant to be mostly a joke, but I'm bored), and if any of this pisses anyone off, these answers are just my oppinion on the matter, I am not saying this goes for all vegans, or even for anyone other than myself, I'm just having a bit of fun.. xD And if anyone think I've wasted their time with this: Nah bro, you did that yourself, noone's forcing you to read the garbage I decided to dump from my brain.. :P 1. I don't consume milk or eggs because milk makes my tummy hurt, and eggs are literally chicken menstruation! XD Also, I am personally not vegan for the sake of the animals, but one of my reasons to be vegan is the environment, and one HUGE thing we could do is drastically decrease the amount of animal products we use, that way we need to produce less of them, which not only reduces the amount of cows to fart up a storm, but also the amount of plants we need to grow.. :P A vast majority of the crops we produce are for feeding animals in the meat industry.. xD 2. A lot of other vegans are gonna disagree with me here, but you go right ahead and eat that cow! XD I personally don't care if others eat meat, as long as I don't have to eat any of it, and here's a somewhat controversial thing, I have nothing against animal products outside of food, I might call myself a vegan, but it's only my diet that's vegan.. :P I even use a shampoo with honey in it, it works wonder for my dye-damaged hair, and I wear necklaces made from leather string! XD But while I politically speaking believes we should cut down on meat production and consumption, I am also not gonna stop anyone from eating as much meat as they want to, expecially if they're just eating an animal that just randomly died.. ^^ Waste not, want not, or whatever that saying is.. xD 3 (not counting the ad-read). Because God is a sadistic SOB, I mean, have you read the Bible? XD There's some fucked up shit in there! XD (just to clarify, no, I am clearly not a Christian, to me the Bible is nothing more than a collection of fairytales that people decided to take literally, or well, only the parts that align with their personal world views) 4. Well, mushrooms are typically considered to be plants, even if they're not, they're technically an entire lifeform class of their own, but they're not sentient, and I think that's more or less where the line is drawn.. :P If this means that vegans can eat jellyfish and sea cucubmers, I do not know, but I personally don't wanna eat either of those.. xD But following your logic: Should vegans then also not eat potatoes? :P You see, people with downs syndrome have an extra chromozone, and potatoes have two chromozones more than typical human beings, meaning that people with downs syndrome are one chromozone away from being potatoes.. xD Can't wait for the next one on this, this is fun! :D
@@jeremielebrun3637 People like that are exiled from the community, they might still call themselves furries, but they are not recognized as one by the rest of us..
So you've thought up these cute little ways in which you could supposedly get animal products ethically. Now I could try to debunk these but I'd rather point out that even by your own logic that would leave 99.99% of animal products are in fact not produced ethically.
Resident vegan here to answer these questions! 1. So most vegans want to reframe how we look at and relate to non human animals. So even if you're treating the cows and chickens you have fairly, the purpose of having them is to use their byproducts. It would be like if you adopted children for the intention of having them do chores. Intentions matter. To make it worse, the breeds of cows and chickens used for dairy and eggs have been selectively bred to over produce milk/eggs. So they already just live worse lives. There's no reason to continue to breed more into existence. You can let dairy cows just not get pregnant (or let their children feed if they already have them) and for chickens, when they lay eggs it actually causes them to lose essential nutrients at a fast rate. Wild hens lay close to one egg per month where as egg laying hens lay closer to one egg per day. This causes them to lose a lot of calcium and suffer bone fractures. It's best to leave the hens alone with their eggs or to feed them back to them with the shell. 2. This is actually a point of divide amongst vegans. Some would argue in favor of what you said. Since the animal passed on and you stumbled upon them, it's open season. The problem that other vegans might bring up is what I mentioned before, changing how we relate to non human animals. If you would respect the body of a dead human and not a dead non human animal, then that becomes an issue, as you're making an arbitrary distinction that promotes the subjugation of non human animals. If you're fine with doing whatever with that dead human body, then I guess you're staying consistent. 3. This one seemed to be mostly a joke, but the truth of the matter is that our empathy towards animals tends to be snuffed out as we're taught that they're lesser than and therefore it's okay to use and kill them. 4. Fungi are very complex and interesting organisms, and while I haven't done the research on this, I haven't heard much about them experiencing suffering and pain or expressing sentience in the way that animals do (not to say that their intelligence and level of complexity isn't astounding. There was a really cool documentary on it).
According to my vegan sister, the 1st question is because they are "imprisoned and should be in the wild..." we have cats. She also loves mushrooms, literally her favourite food. I did actually hear about some weird hippy friend of my aunt who took psychadelics and rides around europe on a bike. He is a vegan that eats raw food only, so mainly broccoli and shite like that. But he does eat roadkill. Apparently he once had 2 deer legs strapped to his bike.
Vegan here. I understand the eggs and milk thing, and I’ve been asked about it before. To me, it feels wrong to eat products that are meant for baby animals. Cow milk is for baby cows and eggs can be baby chickens. There’s no other animal that regularly drinks another animal’s milk. So it may not be unethical, but to me it just feels wrong. Yes, eating the dead cow is okay in my opinion. I still wouldn’t do it because animal flesh grosses my out, but I think it’s okay. I’m not religious, so I’ll skip that part. Mushrooms are not sentient and cannot feel pain or love, and they cannot suffer. So we can eat them. I still don’t, mushrooms are gross. Thanks for the video tho. Love you grade ❤
@@player1_fanatic hence why I said “can be” chickens. Different people have different views on this which is totally fine, but in my specific and personal opinion, I don’t like to eat animal products.
@@VariantAEC I feel like you're not reading my comments. Some eggs become chickens. Therefore eggs as a concept are things that have the capacity to become animals. We good so far? Great. Vegans don't want to eat things that can become animals or things that come from animals. Therefore we don't eat eggs; fertilized or unfertilized. Understand now?
5:42 no offense, and im not a vegan either i dont have anything against them or you, but when an onion is sliced onion's cells release compounds into the air, then enzyme works and you bassicaly cry, not the god's fault
Hello, Grade, I am a huge fan and also a vegan. Even though I realise the humorous nature of the video, I want to address the questions, as I find such debates interesting and important. :) 0) I think everyone can define veganism for themselves; I think anyone can call themselves vegan and have that connected to whatever they please; I also think people who dwell on specific words, such as who is or isn’t a vegan miss the point, 1) I don’t eat eggs because even if they are from a chicken who is loved and hugged, I will never have the certainty that that’s what the chicken desires and gets fulfilment from; I also ask where did that chicken come from? or its parents? is its existence an evidence of an unfortunate and long lasting mistreatment of animals based on people’s superiority derived from their superior intelligence? probably yes. do I have to eat eggs to gain something otherwise unobtainable? no, so I will rather avoid doing so and make sure I avoid violating any morality standards; lastly, I want to protest and see people that I am protesting; so, even if the egg was somehow produced ethically and I am confident it is so, I might avoid it to raise awareness; with milk it’s simple: cows only lactate to feed their offspring; drinking milk is always intrusive, 2) I actually think eating a cow “who just drops dead” or making a jacket or a necklace out of it could be fine; I honestly don’t think such scenario possible, but if it somehow were to happen, eating or using the cow would actually decrease your environmental impact in comparison with just letting the cow rot, 3) I don’t hate people who hurt animals; I never enforce anything on anyone; I almost never initiate a conversation about my veganism; I believe there are vegans who make us look extreme; I am afraid judging all vegans based on the extreme cases (who get, as is usual with extreme cases, much more media coverage and publicity; lol, no one would ever care about my story: I eat beans and grains. end of story) is a fallacy, 4) the point about crying while cutting an onion was hilarious; I love such jokes and love people who can come up with creative ways to make fun of my veganism, 5) I eat mushrooms because they show no signs of pain, consciousness, sentience, volition or happiness-seeking (and I am not aware of their consumption’s connectedness to unhealthiness or environmental damage); I never consider the cells’ likeness to some other cells while deciding what to eat. 🤔
Not a vegan but you know cows dont just produce milk. They need to have kid each year which gets taken away from the mother almost instantly kinda sad yet i still drink milk everyday😅
6:35 they'd probably respond with something about how mushrooms arent sentient. And in that case I wonder if Vegans could eat fish? Or at least like sea anemone. Like what is the standard of sentience here?
Fish are sentient according to the latest science, but there is a lot of discussion about bivalves like clams, mussels, etc that aren’t sentient scientifically. The acceptance of those animals being eaten is done by some vegans and not by others, it’s still a very discussed topic 😊
Let me know if I should make this a series where I do the same, but for trans people/feminists, people of a particular race/religion/furries etc
Also wtf, youtube changed layout and comments are on the far right in some tiny box. Wtf is this, change it back asap pls, it's ballache to reply to comments like this.
One word. Yes.
Sure, man! Go for it. People will love it! 😂
As long as youre staying respectful, yeah, go for it!
You're playing with active mines there, Grade. I'm not sure you wanna go there. Except the furries one. That could be hilarious.
Ofc
Grade a please don’t leave again like my dad
wait again that means he came back congratus dude.
He came back only to leave....again@@_Tzer
Forget your old dad, he's history. I'm your new stepdad now, son.... ;)
@GradeAUnderA
Stepdad ? I tought you were the real f.. welp.
@@GradeAUnderA "what do you mean by that"
-druski
That thumbnail brought me back so many years
Does VeganGains still post?
@@axr1798
I wonder that too.
Fucking same
My thumbnails providing those 1.21 gigawatts and blasting you back to the future. Where's my nobel prize in physics?
Appreciate the kind words milkuetea. Make sure you go check out the 12 other videos I've uploaded this year, especially the last Bible one that I uploaded. Proud af of that one.
@@GradeAUnderA yo im 15 I discovered you during quarantine through the Phobias video, and have been watching you since then 🙏 wtb you one of the many goats of yt, gng, love your content
If 2 vegans are in an arguement is it considerd beef?
Nah mate, it’s beyond beef now.
@@ITheRook We are having a soy
@@ITheRookthis is clever 😂
Maybe its considerd tofu
Also thanks for 14 likes its not much but its the most i've gotten
Grade A is like sam'onella academy. He can leave for as long as he wants and when he comes back we crawl back like nothing happened.
I'm not exactly sure but sam'onella is like Grade A, not the other way around
No, samonella is like gradeA
I like my cheeseburger with tomato and lettuce and onion and mustard
Idk, the view count of his recent videos kind of disproves that.
@@vodkawhisperer3923No, Sam O’ Nella IS Grade A.
This absolutely needs to be a series
Consistent GradeAUnderA was not on my Bingo card! 😝🕺🕺🕺
Consistent GradeAUnderA is an automatic full house, you officially win. Congrats mate, your prize is one night outcall w me. Pm me bb
@@GradeAUnderAwhat bout me lil hro
@@GradeAUnderALook for a song called “Carrot Juice is Murder” by a Canadian comedic band called the Arrogant Worms!
@@GradeAUnderAthats a child
@@Raza_mcgaza "Try to find a joke on a comedy channel challenge (impossible)" 🗣️🍷🍷🍷
I work on a poultry farm, and though you addressed it in your video that factory farms are cruel, I dont think most people understand how cruel they are, and a lot of people do end up not eating meat as a result of working in it. The environment is very very dirty, crowded, smelly, hot and dark, the birds are also overfed and are bred to be as meaty as possible, resulting in their legs being weak and not able to hold the body up properly. They also have very weak hearts and other organs, which results in very frequent deaths, culling for minor inconveniences is also very common, due to the resources going into treating a singular chicken isn't beneficial enough compared to just getting rid of it.
I can't tell if you're an employee that knew nothing of the process, an activist playing pretend, or a commenter farming updoots.
The environment is dirty because they're animals and cleaning the area while the chickens are living in there is just asking to get them killed from foreign exposure. The environment is crowded because the chickens don't mind living in those conditions. The environment is hot because bodies produce heat and there's a lot of them in an enclosed space. The environment is dark because diurnal birds tend to sleep if the surrounding area is dark.
Broiler chickens are bred to produce a specific flavor of meat and a certain amount of it after a short time. They are genetic dead ends outside of this, which is why their immune system is impacted, their organs can't keep up with the weight they put on, and their legs can only sometimes carry them.
I strongly doubt there was any culling for minor inconveniences. Broiler chickens are genetically similar, making disease even easier to spread between them. If any chicken is found injured or sick, it must be extracted and culled because a cure would be longer than its lifespan in most cases, and it's vital to know what it could be spreading. If a barn is found to have a spreading sickness, the entire population is culled. During avian flu outbreaks the existence of a confirmed sickness in one barn can result in the entire facility having its population culled, just to make sure. This is government mandate.
With that said, there's always the possibility of mismanagement at your facility. Maybe they skimped on cleaning despite that being a vector for disease. Maybe they overstocked a barn, or were killing birds because they wanted to play kickball but didn't have a ball. If there wasn't mismanagement, then your complaints are permissible as it being how reality works.
@@TheAstyanii Only thing I care about is the quality of the eggs/meat, and the chickens farmed in those environments are the worst quality imaginable, my dad has a few chickens himself and when you compare them to even the best store bought eggs the difference is staggering
@@TheAstyaniiand you're also intentionally obtuse dropping the wikipedia level knowledge.
@@TheAstyanii bro watch farm to fridge i dont get why you're trying to counter this guys point you sound ignorant to reality.
Yes, yes, yes, I think we all agree that animal cruelty is bad and we should reduce (and eventually eliminate) it, vegan or not. But factory farms aren't the only source of eggs and milk, this is exactly what Grade is talking about. With this logic I could say "Stop eating fruits! You have no idea in how horrible conditions people who pick apples work!" (which is true btw)
I feel obligated to answer the questions for two reasons
1. I'm a vegan(but not the typical one that always talks about it)
2. I'm a big fan(and I do always talk about grade)
I can't speak for all vegans but I'll just answer what I think
Basically the short answer for the serious questions is that in all the situations you asked about I'll be ok with eating the products, but I'll never trust anyone to actually make sure it is how the food was made, even if they said it is.
So now for the full Q&A
Loved animals: assuming you don't do anything to change their normal nature, give them proteins or hormones to lay more eggs, produce more milk, or fuck each other a bunch so that you have an army of them, I'd have no problem eating cheese or eggs made from actions that just happened naturally. Like if your cow likes to lactate in bottles, great!
No involvement:
You are right again, as always. Assuming neither you or any other human had _anything_ to do with the cow dying, or with it being born(cause again, if you made them into hoes, that's on you), and a random cow walking along the street just happens to die from a heart failure - I'll even eat the streak with you. Cause as you said, there was no human caused suffering involved in any way.
Religion: I'm an atheist so like, I don't think any God wanted you to be vegan
Mushrooms: _ohhhhh fuck mate you're right_
Nahhh
They don't have a nerve system, they don't feel pain and are not conscious.
So in other words basically what I'm saying is if a coma patient has _NO CHANCE_ to get better. And he has no family or people that care about him and yada yada yada a bunch more rules, then feel free to butcher and eat him.
how can u tell mushrooms are not conscious? i mean u r made of atoms and cells and somehow we think we r conscious but so does mushrooms are made of atoms and cells ...etc . at the end of the day all life forms or not are made of the same things but we perceive ourselves to be somehow superior than any life form, veggies or not. the perfect logical solution for vegans is actually to not eat a thing... even a rock. 😆
Plants don't have a nervous system like mammals, true. But they do have a way of emitting a distress signal. For example, that fresh cut grass smell we smell after cutting our yards is actually a distress signal from the grass. Mammals tend to express distress by screams, plants express distress by letting off a specific chemical. Distress is still distress Regardless of how the organism presents it, I would argue. I have a microbiology degree, we studied quite a bit of plants. I believe so hard in this not because of anything I read online but because of what I've seen.
The 2 replies above me are intentionally avoiding logic, and ignoring the fact that evolutionarily plants have no reason to feel pain, if they emit a "distress" signal, it is to deter other species so they can reproduce. They are not capable of making decisions, or having thoughts, those are developed over time so animals can use them to choose what to do next. Pain is a feeling a biological gets for their body to notice that something is bad going on, and for them to take action afterward.
Although, this whole debate is pointless.. even if plants WERE conscious, and sentient for some weird extreme reason, where they just feel constant pain but can't do anything about it... This would still be in favor of veganism. There is extremely high amounts of plants grown in order to feed cows pigs, etc. By eating meat (who are fed these plants you so care about.) you are eating tons of plants in addition to the meat. (Which contains the protein they got from.... plants)
@Maskon2Fite I specifically said that plants didn't feel pain, I said they felt distress. I never said it was for any type of decision making, I simply said that distress is distress. You are trying to put words in my mouth and assume my stance. My stance on the matter is simply that since there is no such thing as an organism that doesn't give some sort of distress when being slaughtered, then I may as well continue eating both plants and animals.
Cows and chickens are both born about 50% male and female so you would need to treat the male ones well too eventhough they don't produce eggs or milk.
A cow has to give birth before it can produce milk, and if you buy a chicken it usually means the male chicks were massacred in the breeding process.
So in theory if they are all treated well it could be cruelty free, but I don't see many people taking care fo an equal amount of male and female cows/chickens...
Good to see Vegan Gains finally back on grade's channel
Yes😂 someone else remembers
I actually, genuinely, no sarcasm really like the guy. Yes he's made some wild content and said some wild shit back in the day, but I genuinely see the guy as intelligent and I remember the content of his that I watched years ago being enjoyable af and well made and well researched etc, and I assume the stuff he makes now is just as good, if not better.
Much love to Vegan Gains, my best mate and BFF on this website.
@@GradeAUnderA Hmm, I dunno grade, sounds like someone held at gun point would say. Thumb twice if you are held hostage im vegan gains basement
@@GradeAUnderA hes alot more chilled out now which is kinda sad, i think if you collab or just respond to him you can bring back that peak crazy vegan gains again
@@GradeAUnderA you should make a video about That Vegan Teacher
Never understood why they don't eat honey. It's entirely possible to produce honey without making the bees suffer at all.
They don't? Holy fuck they're messed up. What's the reasoning behind that, I wonder. Exploitation of bees? Lmao
Some vegans don’t care as much but others do, like myself. You still have to “farm” the bees, many of these honey bees are invasive/non native and compete with native bees in the area, and also the honey is FOR the bees, they don’t make it for no reason, they eat it. Same with milk, cows don’t make it for no reason, it’s for their calves to drink.
I was just never into honey, but considering bees constantly make it, as a vegan I don't see why this can't work
@@J0lly_jackson
You replace the honey with sugar though.
100 years ago this conversation would be a moot point. Sometimes you have to eat animals and their products to survive. Thank your ancestors who did that for your existence today.
the "morally superior" table flip was great, hope to see it return someday, plenty of topics to apply it to
not at all accurate though haha
@@corn_enthusiast so your siding with the cannibals tis a shame
@@dntdmt but have you tried human 🤤🤤
@@corn_enthusiast just tried it yesterday and i gotta say taste a lot like pork
@@dntdmt i thought you might enjoy it ☺
Grade:
*Shows picture of 20 piece Chicken McNuggets*
*Also shows pictures of tiny sheep and cow next to it*
Makes sense to me.
The all new Lamb McNuggets with 6 new dipping sauces.
thats cus mcnuggegts got god knows what in them. idk if even mcdonalds themselves know
Should be called "McNuggets maybe chicken"
Ex-vegan here, I can answer these questions:
1- If you have your own chickens then eating their eggs is fine. I ate them all the time from my friends pet chickens.
2- Yeah of course you can eat roadkill.
3- Dunno Im not religious
4- Mushrooms as far as we are aware, arent conscious.
As a vegan I'm happy that @cjlister8508 gave it ago. It doesn't matter to me that he/she eventually gave it up. Just trying it for a while has a positive impact and any positive impact is a good thing.
I salute anyone for trying it. That's more than most people do.
See.. we are not all dicks about it. Only a small but vocal amount of us are crazy.
there isnt ex vegans, you are ex plant based...
@@user-lm3vl3re9wno true Scotsman fallacy
@user-lm3vl3re9w This type of comments is why people hate us.
@@user-lm3vl3re9w ???
As someone who isn't a vegan, I will speak for vegans and answer some of these questions:
Milk: cows actually only produce milk after giving birth to a calf, I believe the problem vegans have is that the milk should be used to feed the calf, also, maybe something about pumping babies into these cows constantly so they are always either pregnant or producing milk
Eggs: chickens have actually been selectively bred to produce an unnatural amount and size of eggs, it is VERY taxing on their bodies to do so constantly, just by way of being alive, so it could be argued that even propagating these species of chicken could be seen as exploitative and cruel
No involvement: with vegans i think it really is up to the individual how they feel about this, but generally speaking it's not a good idea to eat animals who died of natural causes, and also, realistically, there aren't many of the animals we eat that are still roaming around in nature, it's especially not realistic or sustainable for mass scale meat production
God: there is no god lol
Mushrooms: the argument isn't that we don't eat meat because they are genetically similar to humans, they don't eat meat because it comes from a conscious being who is capable of experiencing suffering and thought (even at a basic level). As far as we know, mushrooms cannot do this
Why aren't you vegan?
bummer you're not vegan but great answers
there is no god? im not even gonna respond, just hope you learn soon
Well the calfs are killed because they are not needed, so animals die that way too.
@@notmeyet learn what? There is no evidence for god.
I've been a vegan for a few years now, gonna try to answer as many of these as best I can for you Grade :D
1. Eggs & Milk: In theory having the locally sourced or non factory farmed milk and eggs should be fine but in my case I haven't had the stuff in so long I just don't want it. Outside of ethics the other two primary motivators for people being vegan are health and environmental reasons (though this one doesn't apply to me as much) and I can attest to being way healthier off milk, eggs and animal products than when I was on them and even when I had a more balanced omnivorous diet.
2. The No Involvement thing: I don't see an issue with this at all, that might not be a popular stance in the vegan community but it makes more sense to utilize what's left (even though nature will dispose of it anyways).
3. Great transition to the ad, as always
4. Religious argument: My motivation is more ethical than religious but if I had to kill an animal for food I'd cry way more at that than dicing up some onions for sure. The idea of me cooking with meat again (even if I don't have to personally kill the animal) is very unsettling now even though I used to do it all the time and that's more psychological than religious but I think it applies to the exact point you made here.
5. Mushrooms: I eat mushrooms but you really might be onto something here. I was at a fancy hotel and there was this event that had a bunch of courses to it, being the only vegan there I got all the revised/improvised/substituted dishes and one of the things they gave me was a mushroom that was laid out like a steak and it was so close to steak (for me) that I still felt weird about eating it even though I knew it wasn't meat just from looking at it.
Hope that clears things up Grade, been watching for years but finally am I qualified to speak to these questions that really matter. Looking forward to the other parts :)
Nice bro
Cant point 4 be explained as god did want to stop us from eating meat since we cant eat it raw and have to prepare it carefully first to be safe?
@@sandorkarolydeneskarcsi3271 It can be explained that way for sure. I was speaking to Grade's point of how it's harder to cut onions than it is to cook meat and the conditioning we get early on to detach the idea of meat from a corpse or something that was once alive is part of how/why some people see it that way.
To your point about needing to cook meat carefully to eat it safely, the issue with any sort of religious dissection of this is you have to account for God's omniscience/omnipotence in a way that's impossible to do. Cooking and preserving meat safely thousands of years ago is way harder than it is to do so now. There's no reason to assume that God's own morality would change with how humans evolve/change so the level of convenience available when it comes to anything that should be morally discouraged shouldn't change. There's also plant foods that we either can't eat raw or micronutrients that don't exist in certain foods without being cooked. I realize there's more nuance to this than 'raw meat bad and (some) raw plants bad' but that's not a level of nuance that ever gets parsed through in a meaningful way so I'm treating it as a straw man just to illustrate my point even though I agree with what you're saying.
Another vegan in the comments explained that mushrooms aren't sentient which I find totally reasonable
@@dban961 yeah good point, dont have any counterargument.
i love how he still records in 480p
First of all I'm vegan and love that this video was made. I'm not here to preach or judge, but this is my reasoning for anyone who wants to know:
2:00 Imagine it was the other way around, and cows and chickens had humans as pets. In order to have their 'pet human' produce milk, they have to have her repeatedly inseminated, give birth, and they then generally have the children taken away shortly after birth. Laying unfertilised eggs is also not a million miles off of miscarriages, and if you've ever spoken to a woman about that experience, it can be incredibly traumatic. Imagine the miscarried baby that is removed is then eaten, and that's kind of how people treat chicken eggs. It's the closest human analogy I could think of anyway.
Some facts for you: Cows must be inseminated, give birth, and often have their calf taken away to produce milk for us. Chickens do not naturally produce so many unfertilised eggs, this is a result of human intervention and engineering. How do we know chickens don't suffer emotionally when they lay so many unfertile eggs?
3:40 I'm perfectly ok with exploiting an animal that dies of natural causes. In fact, in survival situations I'm also ok with it and have respect for people who utilise every part of the animal for food or other utilities. Where I draw the line is within our modern society, when it's not a natural situation, we don't 'need' meat or animal products to live, so it just seems unnecessary.
6:00 There might be some merit to this in as much as most mushrooms are probably not meant to be eaten. Personally I very rarely eat mushrooms anyway, most of my protein comes from oats, lentils, beans and nuts.
6:18 That is mostly a technicality. If there were a line dividing plants and animals, mushrooms would be just over the line on the side of animals. Mushrooms can't technically be considered a plant because fungi are not considered plants scientifically, but for the most part, humans share DNA with everything on the planet that has DNA, it all comes down to how much is shared.
Do mushrooms have consciousness? Can they feel pain? Do they have a set of emotions? Do they have a capability to feel physical or emotional suffering?
For animals the answer to all of these is yes. For mushrooms... well I'm sure you're clever enough to figure that one out :)
@@jspau Perhaps, on the smallest of levels, but I don't think so. I was just pointing out a technicality among the science community. Botanists have shown that the mycelium of fungi have a very basic communication network, so on some extremely basic level, there is a conscious, but that argument can be made for any living thing on Earth. Plants are considered living, but not sentient. Sentients has very specific criteria that needs to be met, and mushrooms do not, by any means, meet those criteria.
@@jspaubro if you've ever done magic mushrooms you may come to think differently on their consciousness....and you still won't give af because that's the natural cycle of life 😂
@@omniXenderman I have done mushrooms before. I understand that feeling of 'life' and connectedness, but that's completely different to a sentient being that can experience extreme pain and suffering, emotional distress, and has a will to be free from harm.
@@jspaufor all we know plants. Can feel more than we Can. Just because they dont have a nervous system like us doesnt mean they cant feel. There are weirdee things going on in This world.
One thing I’ve always wanted to ask a vegan is how the hell they get protein without eating 100 different kind of nuts to make up for a burger or some shit
Because the nuts have protein
The official recommendation for protein is only 50g. 100g pasta and 100g lentils will get you close to that. I lift so I go for 150g, so I add in a scoop of protein powder and sometimes a meat substitute. It's really not difficult, and if you're buying whole foods then it's usually cheaper per gram of protein than meat
Tofu, seitan, other soy products like soy milk and edamame, legumes, beans, texturized vegetable protein, there’s also plant based protein powders too for the gym, etc. just to name a few. Most meat eaters actually get too much protein, and it’s pretty hard to be “deficient” in protein unless you’re literally starving yourself because it’s in a lot of foods
Not a vegan, but legumes have a lot of protein and also tofu and other soy products. If you dont want to be a bodybuilder then this will be enough. If you want to be a bodybuilder you might need some protein shakes, but non vegan bodybuilders drink those too, so its not much of a difference
Probably a lot of beans
Hi, answering ur questions nicely:)
1. Milk only comes from cows that have babies so by taking the milk the baby doesn't anything to eat anymore. Factories usually just throw babies away in the trash to r0t, farmers usually take care of them and give them artificial milk but not all of them so finding a good farmer being tricky sometimes a lot of people just prefer to keep it safe and not drink milk at all.
The eggs being the unborn baby, yes those are just cells it s not the actual baby but i guess it s just a weird concept it seems to us like eating the placenta, plus once again factories are terriblle about it they force chickens to stay in small cages all day and night never seeing the sun, and if a baby chicken accidentaly hatches and it s a male some factories will once again throw them in the trash.
2. If there was no involvement and people would eat animals after they have already di3d that would have been fine i guess but no one does that, because the proccess of them dying naturally is too long for the mass of the people that want to eat meat so it is sorta impossiblle they have to shorten their lifespan so they can get enough for the fast production
3. My religion isn t vegan but about the onion part it s a self defense mechanism the onion developed, even if unconcious plants cand develop self defense mechanisms the way roses have spins. It s probable at some point they were closing to exctinction or at least in some zones and all life self conscious or not is equipped to evolve for sruvival
4. Mushrooms are also not conscious they don t have a brain, nor do they feel pain or fear or anything that animals(humans) feel
And lastly being vegan/vegetarian is not an easy process but we do it because we care about animals and the planet, ofc us a few won t save them or the planet but it s about our morals the way carnivores would probably not eat another human or something😅 plus it is our duty to try to do our best at being good people and reducing as less as possiblle, even if it is by small steps:) and i m sorry if we seem scary sometimes it s just when u care about something so much and no one listens you start to get defensive, i m here to answer more questions if anyone has them❤
6:00 that noise is permanently imprinted in my brain
i’m not vegan but i’ve listened to a lot of vegans ideas on these subjects so i can try answer the questions.
1. eggs and milk: some vegans believe that eating eggs from a rescued backyard hen is ok because it does not harm the animal and is therefore ethical. the youtuber The Unnatural Vegan speaks about this. The problem is if you buy the hen from a regular farm, you are contributing to an unethical system. to sell “vegan” eggs could also be seen as unethical because at that point you are exploiting the animal for profit and the idea is that it is a slippery slope to unethical behavior (i don’t really care for this argument.) milk on the other hand is always unethical because cows only produce milk when they have just had a baby and the cows milk is for the calf. the act of getting a cow pregnant through artificial insemination is also seen as unethical as it is invasive.
2. dead cow on the road: that is called free-ganism and some people do it with roadkill or animal products that would have been thrown out otherwise
3.mushrooms: mushrooms are not sentient and vegan. fun fact: neither are oysters. some vegans will eat them.
The first answer is ridiculous there's nothing unethical about either eggs or milk . Being a vegan for sustainability is reasonable but to do it for "animal welfare" or health is crazy
And why do only some vegans eat mushrooms? Are the rest of them regarded
@double6530 nothing unethical about eggs or milk? Male chick's are killed in the egg industry and mother cows are forcibly impregnated for one.
@@double6530 i meant that only some vegans eat oysters. mushrooms are 100% vegan and most probably eat them unless they don’t have the taste for them.
@@double6530 There’s probably more suffering involved in the production of eggs and milk than meat. As was pointed out in the OP’s comment, some vegans don’t have an ethical issue with consuming eggs under specified circumstances, which is also my view. However, achieving those specified circumstances in practice is very unlikely, due to many hurdles that one would need to get over. Truly ethically sourced egg consumption (not the ones marketed as such) wouldn’t even be able to feed billions of people anyway, and the ones that could achieve it, eggs wouldn’t be a staple part of their diet anyway, since those chickens wouldn’t have been selectively bred for excessive egg production.
As for milk, yeah I don’t see how that can be ethical. Mammals can only produce milk when they have babies for their babies. To have milk, one needs to either sexually violate a cow or steal a cow’s breastmilk from her baby. I struggle to see the ethical permissibility in that.
1:36 - The RAREST moment for this character!
eggs your kinda right because they do lay eggs naturally but to have them lay every morning is essentially forcing them to be on their period constantly which is unpleasant at best so having your own chickens and treating them properly produces SOME eggs but not enough for it it be like a staple in your diet
as for milk: like all other mammals, cows only lactate when they have a baby so dairy farms make their cows pregnant then separate the babies from the mothers, which is distressing for both, then take all the cows milk while they either fatten up and kill the baby or have it produce milk too. there's not really a reliable and kind way to get milk
Both of those are staples in the diet of sooooo many people around the world who keep their own farms and don't buy groceries. But I guess we're only speaking about the West and nothing else.
@@A_DuckyThey can only be staples due to selectively breeding animals for hyperactive reproductive systems, which takes a huge toll on their bodies, and in the case of cows, will require the separation of their babies. It doesn’t matter how “nicely” you treat them, their very existence is suffering, and they shouldn’t have been bred into existence to begin with.
Eggs in theory might be ethically sourced, however, there are so many hurdles to get by that it is extremely unlikely to actually be achieved in practice, and it certainly couldn’t feed billions of people. Only a very, very small fraction of the population could ethically consume eggs. Moreover, placing market value on animal byproducts runs the risk of balancing business interests to compete against important animal welfare interests. History has shown us that this is a dangerous game to play, corporations and businesses end up cutting corners and trying to maximize profits, so it might be best to play it safe and view animals as living with us rather than here for us.
@@johnchesterfield9726
Again, you're referring to methods only used in the West. Plenty of villages in Eastern Europe and in other places across the world farm grow happy cows and imo we wouldn't be here had our ancestors been vegan. So thank all the meat eaters in tiny villages throughout the centuries for your/my very existence.
@@A_Ducky No, I’m not only referring to Western practices, these practices are literally inherent to milk production. You just can’t produce milk ethically, because it _necessarily entails_ stealing breastmilk from a baby, and if you want constant milk production, this _necessarily entails_ forcibly impregnating a cow to keep her pregnant and lactating. These aren’t just Western practices, they are necessary and required for ALL milk production. There is no such thing as “happy cows” when going through the process of stealing their breastmilk that was intended for their babies, NOT humans.
@@johnchesterfield9726
I genuinely wish you could go to a small village once.
So what about when cows have too much milk for the calf to use? Just let them suffer? Have you ever been bloated, lol.
You are the funniest geeza on this app bro I'll always pop back and watch your bangers
Mate and you are the sexiest geeza on this site. I'm still waiting on you to start uploading so I can start stalking you. get on it
Vegans don't eat anything that comes from an animal, which includes eggs and milk, but a vegetarian can become it's not meat it's a byproduct. In my opinion, that's how I see difference.
GradeAunderA vs vegan gains 2024 REMATCH LESSGOOO
NateS917 Nooo mate, RUclipsrs do boxing now and Vegan Gains is a fucking tank, he would beat my arse so badly it would be cruel.
@@GradeAUnderA just use your crane and multi-ply shirt, you'll wreck him ez.
Nah mate it's good exercise isn't it? Give that arse a vegan gained workout @@GradeAUnderA
@@GradeAUnderA Just get your chin in the way of his punches.
@@GradeAUnderA tell them about conscription and pol pot
Always good to see a new Grade A video!! Haven't been vegan for ages, but to clarify, the thing about animal milk is that it only comes from females who are constantly kept pregnant or recently given birth, to stimulate milk production. If Males are born to a dairy animal they aren't wanted/ needed, so are killed within hours.
Same with eggs. Only females lay eggs, so half of the babies are gassed or smothered to death, once they have been identified as male. So although the animal/ bird isn't killed for the milk/eggs, there's still a ton of death and awful practices that are involved with milk and egg production.
🤷🏻♀️ Just my two cents.
PS: Vegan milk and egg substitutes already exist, you can buy them at the supermarket! 😁👍
PPS: I know you already know all thos, probably, but may be of use to other folks who don't 😁👍
3 questions: do any plant milks replace more specific facets of milk like fermentation for cheeses/yogurt and baking needs.
And what are vegan eggs made of? Also what are they like
Thanks for spreading this, it's so crazy that most people genuinely don't understand how bad dairy and egg farming. They think it's all sunshine and rainbows for the animals, literally
"haven't been vegan for ages" if you go back to paying for abuse, it's hard to believe you were really against the abuse in the first place
Vegan here. I can answer these questions:
1. Even if you have eggs and milk obtained without harming the animals, you’re still taking something that doesn’t belong to you. Without their consent. And you’d ultimately be taking care of the animals as a means to an end to extract their resources instead of for selfless reasons. Vegans believe conscious animals should not be treated as property.
2. Most vegans believe it’s fine to eat naturally deceased animals. But it’s a pretty useless hypothetical unless you’re lost in the wild, because eating what’s already dead is pretty unsanitary.
3. It doesn’t matter if fungi are more closely related to animals. Mushrooms can’t feel pain, and they show no sign of having a conscious experience. So there’s no good reason to think they can be exploited or harmed in any way.
I would like to add to your first point. Cows do not produce milk just for fun. They produce milk in order to feed their children, so if a cow is not pregnant for a few months, they stop producing milk. And in order to "get the most out of them" they have to be impregnated again, without giving their body a rest. Cows are rather emotional creatures, so forcing them into labour all the time is pretty cruel. Industry cows can produce up to 7 galleons or 27 Litres a day, so they have to be milked multiple times a day, which makes their udder sore. This can lead to pus and blood. So most countries have to regulate the amout of blood and pus that is allowed in milk
well, here's another question, what do you do with the products these animals make. you can't just not milk a cow, nor just waste the eggs and milk. what do you do with it???? I have an understanding of some cows making milk even without having calves, and chickens make eggs without fertilizing them, so what do you do with it??
unless I'm wrong then please tell me that I am! I'm only stating what I've been told
I will counter your guys because there are things that happen if you don't milk a cow. They will get brushes on their utters, it will get them sick, and they can even die if you don't milk them.
@@TheAussieShalien A lot of these animals only exist because farmers have forcibly bred them into existence. Vegan would be opposed to the forcible breeding of animals in order to use them to our ends.
Cows are mammals, and all mammals produce milk to nourish their babies. Thus, they can only lactate after they are pregnant. Without forcible breeding, they won’t lactate as much, so we won’t need to worry about what to do with the milk. If they have bred through natural means, then we just let them use the milk for its intended biological purpose; so that their babies can breastfeed. Humans have absolutely no need to milk cows.
As for hens, they have been selectively bred for hyperactive reproductive systems, and so they lay an excess of 250-300 eggs per year. By comparison, wild hens only lay eggs during breeding season, which comes out to 10-15 eggs per year. Hens deplete some calcium every time they produce and push out eggs, so feeding eggs back to the hens can help them recover some of the lost calcium. If we assume someone is caring for a genetically unmodified hen, there won’t be much surplus eggs, but if there is, then as long as the hens aren’t defensive over their eggs, then it may be ethically acceptable to eat some of those surplus eggs. However, actually achieving all these specific circumstances in practice is radically unlikely, and if it is achievable, it would only feed a very minuscule fraction of the population, and eggs wouldn’t even be a large part of their diet anyway.
1:10 When an egg doesn't hatch, the hen will cannibalize the egg to gain back that nutrition. When we take those eggs, we take away that nutrition from the hen.
Now, in industrial hatcheries, it's mostly the same for egg laying hens in the US.
1. Laying eggs is very taxing on the hens body when they aren't being fed properly.
2. Hens are held in battery cages not tall enough to allow them to stand and not wide enough to allow the to shift left or right.
3. Caged hens are fed nutritionally void corn, like most industrial livestock. This causes them severe malnutrition.
4. Uncaged hens have their beaks cut off and burnt so they can't peck other hens to death. This also makes it very hard for the hens to feed.
5. In industrial egg farms, the male chicks and female chicks are separate and the male chicks are put into a grinder and turned into chicken nuggets or chicken patties.
6. At a certain point the hens stop laying eggs and they are starved to force molting and the final eggs are laid by these hens. When the hen dies, they're slaughtered for meat and sold to fast food chains and supermarkets.
Oh sick it’s lucky I feed them then! No need for my lil guys to worry about nutrition 🥰
@@auysters_for_sal9165 By not being fed properly, I mean being fed corn. The egg still belongs to the hen, not us.
@@JubeiKibagamiFezowning things is a human concept
@@thephilosophyminor Are you implying that it is solely a human concept? Then why do mother bears get so aggressive when their cubs are approached?
Why do alligators get so much more aggressive when their nest is approached?
How about eagles and hawks and falcons?
Why are hippopotami so territorial?
Or rhinoceros?
You know what? Take your pick.
Name me one sentient being that has zero concept of ownership.
@@JubeiKibagamiFez they claim the territory but they don’t own it
3:11 Vegan here, what you explained there is 100% correct, I would allow you to have burgers with the boys 👍🏻
I'll answer the questions as someone who's basically vegan.
1:07 to 1:30 - *(1) Why not eggs and milk?* The conditions often used to acquire them in factory farming are far from humane, but if instead the animals putting out milk and eggs lived happy idyllic lives under the best of conditions and vegans knew this (e.g., the vegans did that themselves), I think would-be vegans would have a much different attitude about it; _I_ certainly would!
3:12 to 3:37 - *(2) No involvement, cow just drops dead, no funding of exploitation or suffering.* My thoughts: yeah I think this would be fine to eat the animal in that case.
5:40 to 6:01 - *(3) Why cry when we cut onions, but not chickens?* Fortunately I have a philosophy degree which allows me to give this erudite response: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But seriously, suppose God, a creator whose mind infinitely transcends ours, exists (as I think he probably does). Because the chasm between the infinite and the finite is so unfathomably vast, we can't reasonably expect to understand the "why" behind everything God does (perhaps even _most_ things) any more than we can reasonably expect an ant to understand why the sun gives off heat. So I don't know why, but perhaps we shouldn't expect to know why.
6:04 to 6:07 - *(4) Can vegans eat mushrooms?* Yes. Mushrooms are like plants in their degree of non-sentience. Suppose arguendo that mushrooms are more genetically similar to animals than to plants; even if true, this is morally irrelevant.
*Conclusion:* I can't speak for all vegans, but many vegans are like me in that it's more of a pragmatic thing vis-à-vis animal suffering. _Ceteris paribus_ if we can acquire adequate nutrition without contributing to unnecessary suffering, it is morally better to acquire nutrition that way. In the special cases of e.g., a cow just dropping dead, or chickens laying eggs when they are uniformly treated super-nicely etc. the principle that would normally apply (as in the case of factory farming) doesn't, but these are special cases that the typical vegan isn't likely to encounter. For most practical purposes, veganism is the way to go.
I ain’t reading all that
Great,GradeA thinks furries are zoophiles... 🤦♂I'll never understand the absurdity in hating furries
Just a joke mate
@@CormDaCrowno, why do people even imagine furries being zoophiles? You gotta actually come up with that kindof imagery to come up with this joke.
@@LUKEUNGUS Not really lol, it's a pretty obvious joke to make
@@CormDaCrowok
@@LUKEUNGUS It's the same as "pope are all pdf files" kinda joke
So glad Grade is back for good… hopefully
same, but im scared this comment will age badly 😭😭
@@bxbbles_xoxo it definitely will
Well I don't think he's back for evil
Your sponsorship bit was so hilarious that I sat through it 😄
I’m glad to see despite the insane change of the last 8 years grade basically hasn’t changed at all and it’s amazing
that's because he was already... that adjective???
Aaaah there is a pure happiness when you see a new video from GradeA
i swear this new wave of videos just keeps getting better
1:07 Mainly because the milk is meant for the calf, not for humans.
Now, I don't know about other countries, but in the US, dairy cows are treated like a piece of farm equipment.
The cows have to be pregnant or recently given birth to produce milk and the feeding of the calf is quite short, so....
1. Cows have to be artificially inseminated and impregnated to continue producing milk.
2. Most dairy farms immediately isolate the calf and mother so they can pump as much milk as possible for sale.
3. Veal calves are strapped down by chains less that 6 inches to keep them from standing and using their muscles.
4. Pregnancy is very harsh nutritionally and physically on any species of animal, but dairy cows have it the worst because they are being fed a 100% diet of untreated corn, which is nutritionally void.
5. Industrial dairy cows are milked almost 24 hours a day. They don't get to roam a pasture and get milked when they need it. Those pumps are hooked up to their utters almost all the time.
6. Because those pumps are hooked up to them, the cows get a constant drip of antibiotics because of how infected their utters are.
7. The FDA has criteria for an FDA Allowable percentage of puss in all dairy products because "it would cost the dairy industry to much to pay a person to remove the pumps and wash the cows utters before and after pumping on a daily basis."
Dairy cows usually give out and dry up by year five where they are put up for slaughter, but by that time their bodies are anorexic and frail.
That is no way for any living being to live.
Drinking milk was only a thing when farmers didn't have the means to make cheese out of the little milk the cow still produces after the calf is whined, that milk production is very painful for the cow, but not as painful as being an industrial dairy cow.
wow
this is... this is too much
I didn’t know this omg
yep, thats how cows make their milk. don't see why people consider it bad now but i assume the emergence of the funny rainbow pronouns got something to do with it.
sounds like a bunch of whining, please, shut up.
1) Eggs and Milk are unethical because of factory farming practices, which is how basically everyone gets them. Cows have to be pregnant to make milk and then have their calf taken so that it doesn’t drink all the milk. Chickens usually just live in absolute horrible conditions. Being said if it was practical at all, which it isn’t, vegans would happily eat their own backyard animal’s secretions, given there was a surplus.
2) Road kill is a million percent vegan, just kinda nasty.
3) Mushrooms aren’t sentient, and if they were, they are less sentient than any animal
MUSHROOMS LIVES MATTER 🗣️🗣️🗣️
u cant tell me mushrooms are somehow less sentient than a bee when both basically operate on autopilot with 0 thought involved
Is there a border between sentient/ non- sentient life? Mushrooms are fair game, in my book, but for example, would you use natural sponges? They are technically animals, yet have no nervous system (unable to feel pain) and are not made from plastic, like industrially made sponges.
The cows aren't taken because they drink all the milk. The calves are taken because it's considered a waste to let them drink the milk - holstein cows, for example, produce 40L per day and there's no way that a calf will finish that. So they take the calves away and continue milking the cows to keep their profits going.
@@valentinmitterbauer4196 If it can be reasonably assumed that sponges aren’t sentient then I’d use them. No pain, fair game.
I'm a vegan and I think its perfectly fine to eat ethically sourced eggs and milk or meat from natural deaths of animals and I agree that some vegans are inconsistent with the purpose of veganism. I couldn't tell if the point about mushrooms was entirely a joke or not but I would say its not the genetic closeness that is relevant, its the capacity to suffer and flourish that is relevant and mushrooms can't feel pain and don't have emotions so they cant suffer in any morally relevant way.
100% make this a series. We'll protect you from the cancelation
My channel is bascially a Vegan Gains series. When ever he says some crazy shit i have recored it. And there is alot! Over 300!
@@TheOfficialVeganismExposed Okay, so let me get this straight. You made an entire channel dedicated to taking clips of when one vegan says something crazy and named your channel “TheOfficialVeganismExposed”? Why would one vegan saying something crazy undermine the vegan philosophy? This would be like saying anti-racism has been exposed because here is one crazy anti-racist who says crazy things.
@@TheOfficialVeganismExposed imagine being that obsessed with another man haha
It's probably a good thing if he's genuinely asking. I mean, vegan gains is considered quite crazy among vegans.. if he's serious about learning these answers he'd listen to someone like Earthling Ed or Joye Carbstrong.. not vegangains or that vegan teacher
@@TheOfficialVeganismExposed bro get a life. You are so obsesses with a single dude and so desperate to somehow grow a youtube channel that is based 100% on negativity and has 0% actually creative content lmao
So happy you are back, the old skool style of editting is much needed, cheerse mate
These questions make so much sense.
And they're all extremely easy to Google and find clear answers for
0:11 not even 20 seconds in 💀💀💀
I saw this on a Short a while back,
"At what temperature do you become Gender Solid?"
I Lol'd!
i like the way that Grade has used the image of that vegan dude from years back lol. catching strays after all these years😂😂
@@brandonx8292 OGs know that VeganGains was The Vegan Teacher of our time
Hilarious as hell, here a few "serious" comments from my perspective because the idea of "vegan milk and eggs" is kind of interesting:
Eggs: IMO opinion, that's completely achievable. Chickens will lay unfertilized eggs and you can just collect them and use them. They are a product of the chicken just existing and indeed, if you keep them in your garden and treat them well, throwing away the eggs you get for free for "vegan reasons" would be batshit crazy IMO. They could not even ever turn into chicks, because they are not fertilized. Its just a small gift the chicken made for you, they are truly "vegan eggs" in the way you define it.
Milk: As much as I love milk, this one is more tricky. Before you get milk out of the cow, she must give birth to a calf. The calf then needs to be separated from the mother cow, so we can take the milk and that lactation period lasts for about 10 months only. So you end up with having to get her pregnant again. So you have to make a calf per year in average and always separate it from the other, or it will consume most of the milk. Bit trickier here, as the milk is not a "free product from the cow just existing".
No involvement: In fact there are people who eat roadkill, like pheasants and stuff that has just died in accidents. It just sounds a bit icky but if its collected fresh, there is no difference to just hunting and it will make a delicious snack. But this will never go mainstream for many reasons lol. If a cow or something just dies, its mostly so old that the meat is inedible, or it had a disease in which case you often also don't want to consume it.
Acording to my vegan girlfriend, chickens often eat the eggs to reabsorb the calcium used to make them. I find that a little odd as they must get the calcium from their food, so they dont need it back
@@andrewjones1615 yeah that's really just vegans inventing stuff around at this point. chickens who get proper nutrition won't eat their own eggs, they will just lay around till they rot (sources: neighbour who had chickens for years, wife who had chickens throughout her childhood and google search)
Goats are a lot easier to do this with humanley. I get my milk this way.
@@andrewjones1615They only do that because they need the majority of calcium to produce eggs. If they eat eggs its because you have wasted them and they are not about to. Plus the calcium is almost entirely in the shell. So just give them the shells, this is what I do.
@@godparticle3833 Thank you for your comment, I didn't know this!
Answers from a vegan:
1) yeah, that’s true. You can have a vegan barbecue if you wanna eat an animal that dies naturally. But that limits your sources to roadkill unless you wanna eat plagued or parasite-filled meat. I think vegans don’t address this because they don’t wanna incentivize people to make more roadkill and sell it as “vegan meat” at the farmer’s market 😂 You could have vegan milk and eggs too- but that doesn’t exist, unfortunately. I’d drink a shit-load of milk if I could find it from a farmer who doesn’t kill all the male cows, cut the horns off the females, and take their mother’s milk from the babies who rightfully should have it and let them all roam the fields, playing around, but wait a sec- no I wouldn’t, because to make that cost-effective, you’d have to sell that for more than it’s worth.
2) most people do feel worse cutting into a LIVE chicken than into an onion. That’s why AG-GAG laws exist and no one can bare to even watch a video of what goes on in the factories where their dinner comes from. Also, on literally the first page of the Bible, God explicitly states that (in the perfect, unfallen world, of course) plants were the only thing to be eaten. He doesn’t reverse course on that until after the flood, presumably because there was a scarcity of eatable plants… but there was also a scarcity of animals, so that makes no sense lmao
3) veganism has nothing to do with DNA. It’s about cruelty mitigation. I would eat my own arm if I would otherwise starve to death. If they could clone meat from me, and that cloned meat didn’t have a nervous system and it definitely didn’t feel like anything to be it, then vegans could, in principle, eat that in good conscience. It may feel like something to be *on* mushrooms, but it probably doesn’t feel like anything to be one, cos they don’t have nerves or a centralized system thereof, so grill ‘em up
No no, apparently we can't answer any of these questions. This comment doesn't exist.
I for a fact know you know absolutely NOTHING about anything by the first statement. you're a vegan in religion.
My comment disappeared, i dunno. Here is the revisioned comment. smh
I disagree. Milk and eggs cannot be vegan unless you randomly found it on the ground and you are sure 100% it's abandoned. It's not all about slaughter, it's also about informed consent, which non-humans cannot give. Hence why egg and dairy farms cannot be ethical. Especially if there is economic incentive!! And it is also why riding horses is wrong. For me veganism is not cruelty mitigation, that's kinda utilitarian, for me veganism is about giving the animals the basic rights they deserve, that is *not being exploited for anything* and not abusing them.
@@Azarilh so an animal cant consent but a fetus can consent to getting murdered?
@@greatleader4841 Since when did i say anything about fetuses? Stop with the whataboutism, it's not a healthy conversation.
I'm only vegetarian, but I can give simple answers to your questions:
Question 1: "Why not eat animal products when they are ethically sourced?"
(this is rephrasing the question to only include the part that you have an actual objection with. Why consuming milk and eggs under normal circumstances is problematic was already answered by yourself)
The answers that I can come up with are:
- When I started going vegetarian, I missed meat very much. Since then, my taste has changed, and the last time someone tried to force me to eat an animal, it almost made me puke. I can imagine it's somewhat similar for vegans still feeling "icky" when wearing animal skin or eating animal eggs, though it's hard to picture. If eating meat making someone puke is hard to picture for you: Imagine eating a meal and someone explains to you that the chewy bits that are everywhere are actually the cockroaches that they put in the meal. They put in extra many just for you, and go on to explain that cockroaches are actually man's natural food source.
- It's hard to go through with a rule when the rule becomes too complicated. It's often easier to explain as "I don't eat animal products" than to say "I only consume animal products when nothing had to suffer for it, and no, your greenwashed 4m² free range pig meat is not an example of ethical sourcing"
- I imagine "ethical" products and unethical ones having a shared market. If vegans completely occupy the former, then everyone else who doesn't care will only go with the latter. This way, you still have your decisions correlate to animal suffering even if you yourself only buy the "ethical" option. And the ethical market just growing alongside the increased demand doesn't exactly work, because acquiring the products ethically consumes more resources than it would take to cover the demand.
The latter reason is also why I'm totally fine with going to my grandparents and eating the eggs that their chickens laid, since they will neither be selling their eggs nor buying more eggs from the store if I eat too many, but I feel conflicted about buying eggs from the store.
Question 2:
This is a question that I also deal with pretty frequently. For example, someone else will accidentally order for 10 animals to be killed when they only really needed the meat of 1, so now we have the corpses of the 9 animals that didn't need to be killed and need some way to deal with those. But the answers are basically the same as for question 1.
Question 3:
God loves the smell of foreskin and burning animals. Clearly, animals don't have souls and it's fine to torture and kill them and that's why they're so similar to humans. But to give a more serious answer that I hope is consistent with what religious people believe: God didn't really design life, he just gave the first spark. So it's just coincidence that onions are spicy for the eyes and our bodies look like they were designed by a 5 year old on LSD.
Question 4:
Plants are fine to eat, even for hardcore vegans. Therefore, something that is "closer" to humans than plants are can also be fine to eat, and there's no contradiction. By your same logic, this would be a valid argument:
"Ice cubes are fine to eat. According to SCIENCE, plants are more similar to humans than ice cubes are. Therefore, you can't actually eat plants."
On top of that, a thing's similarity to humans isn't exactly the rule that most people use to judge it as worthy of moral consideration. Instead, you'd care about something's conscious experience. Similarity to humans can be a decent approximation of that up to a point, but obviously, you can't have that without a brain or something with a similar function, and therefore, mushrooms aren't worthy of moral consideration.
Nice video man, I totally get the questions, so as a vegan I can answer
1) 1:26 You’re absolutely right, if animals were taken care of and not killed, milk and eggs would be perfectly justified. But here’s the thing, most farms don’t do this. Here’s how it works, you’re a farmer and on cow has some kids, half are male, half are female. That means you have half of your cows actually providing income but the other half don’t provide anything. As a result you’re probably going to sell those male cows, that then end up in a slaughter house, which we don’t approve of.
The same applies to chickens, that being said, there are certain farms that actually don’t sell/kill any of their animals and we’re perfectly okay with that. In an ideal world we could fund large scale kill free cow farms, but unfortunately taking care of such a large population of animals isn’t cheap, so it’s better to just cut out dairy all together. Maybe if genetic engineering gets to the point we’re you can choose the gender of the cow’s offspring this would change, this would work. But right now we can’t afford these farms on a large scale. Chickens on the other hand are different.
You can raise a small family of chickens in your backyard and they’ll produce eggs on their own. So yes there could easily be lots of vegan chicken farms, but again if a make chicken is born, most of the time they’re being sent to a slaughter house.
2) 3:18 The animal can’t suffer and you didn’t cause any suffering so really it’s only entitled to the right of respect we would give to anything else that’s dead. So honestly yeah, if animal died by natural causes go wild.
3) 5:43 I get this is a joke but I’ll go ahead and talk about the “It’s natural” justification anyways in case you were curious. Yes humans are supposed to kill animals, but nature is kind of… I can’t say anything or else RUclips will delete my comment but when dolphins mate; male dolphins will gang up on a female dolphin and not ask for permission, in order to make more dolphins, if she says no they’ll bite and beat her until she does. If a female lion with cubs meets a new male lion who she mates with, the new male lion will game end the lion’s cubs so that his genes are the ones that are past on.
Put it simply nature is cruel and if you want to say “Eating animals is nature’s plan” then you should also be okay with doing some horrifying things not even criminals loud be okay with.
4) 6:15 Computers can do some amazing things but they don’t have any capacity to suffer. They don’t have anything in their hardware that allows them to cry or be scared, the same goes for fungi. If you were to make an animal replica in a lab, complete with functioning organs but no brain at all, just a meat statue. Then eating this animal would be okay as it can’t suffer.
Nice vid see you for part 2
Honestly thanks for this. My brother turned vegan about a year ago and is actually doing great bmi wise. Was curious about these questions as well since, being a Texas civilian, eating meat here is just the way here lol
@@archaeamagic334 You’re welcome bro
You are not a fucking vegan. What the fuck does the animal being killed have to do with being against the exploitation to begin with?
Why are there so many of you weirdos pretending to be vegan and saying stupid shit?
For question #1, a lot of vegan families also avoid eating animal products because you can acheive the same levels of calcium in milk and protein in eggs in other vegan-friendly foods. My girlfriend and her family and vegan, and for them, they understand that if they raised their own animals with their own ethics that they may be more inclined to eat animal products, but they are not in a position to do so due to their own lack of land for raising animals. It's a complicated, nuanced ethical dilemma that has a different answer for every family and every situation.
Most vegans will answer your questions as long as you aren't intentionally antagonizing them and aren't deliberately trying to find hypocrisy in their lifestyle. Be respectful.
EDIT: typo
Exactly our species has existed for 100,000's of years, millions if you consider more primitive versions. And yet we've only been consuming dairy from other animals for less than 10,000 years.
- "Most vegans will answer your questions as long as you aren't intentionally antagonizing them and aren't deliberately trying to find hypocrisy in their lifestyle. Be respectful."
It's on them to be respectful, and respect is not something most vegans are willing to even consider.
Antagonizing others is the main part of why people despise them so much.
So yeah, *be respectful.*
That's the thing, we don't know the answers to many of these questions because "it's the same to eat other forms of protein". No one asked about that. At all. We all know that already, if past like 7th grade. But why though? What's wrong with eating an egg a happy chicken made?
@@garibaldi54
More primitive humans definitely hunted and ate meat. And 10,000 years is not a sneeze, no matter how much we see it as such when compared to 100,000 years.
@@schnek8927I wish your experience with veganism wasn't no negative- I've met countless vegans in college and never have any of them shown animosity towards meat eaters and their lifestyle. I think part of it may be the internet's ability to bloat extreme opinions. Glad we can agree on the importance of respect from both parties, though.
Vegans not eating honey is pretty ridiculous ngl
Cause of the smoking them is harmful.
@@MilanousMedia no its not
Keep up the consistency Grade 🤝🏽
Came out at a perfect time, just got done binging your videos.
Literally what I'm doing now. I have 12 grade videos to watch rn, I like to let him build up videos without me watching them for the sole purpose of binging them.
I don't care what you think., I'm saying it.
Red Pandas are real Pandas, they had the name first. Panda isn't a specific group or anything, hasn't beem since the 50s. We found the Red Panda, thought it was cute, then we found the Giant Panda, thought it was cute, thought the two were related(which they ARE, both Caniforms, just not nearly as closely as we thought), called em both Pandas, then it turned out the Red Panda was in it's own little side group and the Giant Panda was a bear. So Panda isn't a specific group anymore, just two animals happen to have that name now. And Red Panda was in the door first.
Oh and unlike the red fox, they ARE actually red, the lighting in that one pic made them look more Red-Orange
So, the koalas could be counted as grizzly bears?
No they’re not mate
@@TheStormMage Bear DOES have a definition and is a specific group. Panda hasn't been in decades
@@danvsclips8326they both look orange honestly, i call them orange panda's and orange fox's
Hes back lets gooo
WOW such a funny joke, not that he has uploaded for like a few months
@@depressedutchman i haven’t received any notifications until this one, so from my perspective this was his return.
I got the old "Vegan Gains is a Liar" video in my YT recommendations like 5 hours ago and now this video came out. COINCIDENCE? I THINK NOT!
Anyone using vegangains or thatvegan teacher as a spoke person for vegans is just unfair. I mean, they are considered pretty crazy even among vegans... if you're seriously interested in animal ethics you'd listen to the likes of Earthling Ed or Joye Carbstrong or Debugyourbrain.. not that vegan teacher or vegangains...
@@clw906 I sure would love to see people try to respond to vegans such as debugyourbrain, earthling ed, and old Alex O’ Connor. But no, it never happens, because it’s much easier to pick the handful of crazies to make veganism look weaker.
@@allandmJoe Carbstrong is pretty crazy dude
@@estelasayeed5608 Joye? He's not crazy he's just assertive, he never says stuff like 'oh kill all carnivorous'. He's just not as calm as Earthling Ed, but everything he says is just what's actually happening to animals, he doesn't sugar coat it.
Yes, please make this a series Grade!
As a vegan (and a grade fan don’t mean this as an attack to u grade) I not finished the video yet but as for the first point on eggs and milk. It’s not just about cruelty. Cows milk is for their babies. Not for us to take from them and consume for ourselves the same way that when humans have babies and produce breast milk. That milk is for the baby not to be sold off for someone else to drink. Also the other reason is several dairy farms also sell to the meat trade or even also farm meat themselves so it’s about not giving our money to fund anything that traces back to the meat trade. Hope this answers ur question a bit and again it’s really all love 😭🖤
one of the best vides you've made in a while mate good shit
I would love to see this as a series. Honestly I just love to watch any Grade content so keep uploading and my fat ass will keep watching
To produce milk, the cow needs to have a calf. Calves are basically half female , half males... what do you think happens to the boys? Eggs are ok if the chicken has acces to freedom.
Love every video you post bro, youre a legend. Also yes make this a series!
Okay here’s how I would answer:
1. I don’t have a problem with raising a cow for milk if they’re treated well and get to live out their life (assuming they’re not from a farm that slaughters the male cows). Raising a hen for eggs is questionable, as they sometimes suffer from bone deficiencies that could be solved by feeding their eggs to them.
2. I and most vegans I’ve heard of don’t have an issue eating a cow who drops dead. Gary Yourofsky, a well known animal rights activist, even called eating roadkilled animals a “loophole”.
3. I’m not religious, but religious people don’t have an issue eating animals in a survival situation. So if I wanted to create animals where people only ate them in a survival situation, I would make their flesh a carcinogen that raises the risk of cancer and heart problems and their flesh a food poisoning risk when it’s raw (which in my opinion is worse than making you cry).
4. Yes because mushrooms don’t have a brain and central nervous system or any first person experience of the world.
So, here are my answers for this:
1) Eggs and milk require the death of almost all male chicks and calves. Male chicks generally get thrown in a meat grinder and male calves of milk cows don't give enough meat if you raise them, because they've been bred for milk production, so get slaughtered very early, because you would lose a lot of money raising them. Even if you bought the cows and chicken, you would be buying them from people who do the above mentioned things to their male chicks and calves. So eggs and milk are inextricably linked to animal death.
In practice they almost always involve a lot of suffering for the cows and chicken too.
2) Personally I think it's completely fine to eat animals that died on their own.
3) I am not religious.
4) Mushrooms, as far as I know, have no capacity to suffer, so eating them is fine. I don't care how closely related something is to humans.
4 Human meat is totally on the menu, then?
Ok...
@@VariantAEC No, because humans can suffer. Did you not read the sentence right before that? Eating a dead human is also bad, because of how it affects you and their relatives psychologically, not because their genes are similar to yours.
Interesting video, as a vegan myself, I'll reply to these questions! :D
(hopefully RUclips spam detection doesn't delete my replies here... I replied to myself 7 times for reference)
1. The egg industry does not require male chicks to prosper, so they instead grind them alive (not a joke)
And cows do die for the production of milk, typically they are the same cows that are used for meat, and buying milk supports both. In addition, death isn't the only concern, in order to get the milk, we have to genetically select them over time to have increasingly larger utters, so we can get more milk out of them, and at birth, baby cows are separated from their mothers, which causes grief
Same with chickens you raise personally, and cows, they are typically genetically modified, and if not, they need those eggs and milk anyways, there's no ethical way to take that from them, and there's no nice way to genetically modify them. To get milk from a cow, you need to get them pregnant, and take their child. And when chickens have an egg with no chick, they actually need that egg to be fed back to them, or they'll lose protein
Pretty good point though, but it's a little more complex then just being nice
2. This point is a little bit irrelavent, nobody really makes this point, and veganism is reduction of suffering typically, eating a random peice of roadkill is not exactly immoral
3. Skipping this one cause it was just a clever joke
Bringing up "Vegan Gains" 10 years later is wild, man. If I haven't told you I love you before, grade, lemme tell you now:
I love you.
0:50 and that's why vegetarians are awesome
Most vegetarians don't have their own pet cows or their own chickens. They buy it from the supermarket, all those cows will be killed at 5 years old, chickens even earlier. They are selectively bred breeds, have a ton of health issues and pretty miserable lives. Honestly I'd rather be a beef cow than a dairy cow
2:33, that's from Chocobo Racing! 😲
No its from final fantasy
Here's some copypasta I wrote regarding mushrooms, Everything has a level of sentience up to an extent, sentience is always physically created by the interaction of different things, in animals it's the signals from the neurons interacting with other neurons, this creates a very high level of sentience because it's a very complex system, a watch has gears that move in relation to each other, there is wobble and play in the mechanism which affects timing, this also creates a very very almost non existent level of consciousness, a worm has a low level of consciousness, because of how simple they are, yet they are more conscious than chatgpt which has trillions of neurons, more than a human. The brain of a worm was fully mapped and simulated to a computer, and even though it only had a couple hundreds of neurons it was more sentient than chatgpt, because it was able to experience "reality" continuously, chatgpt only thinks in the moment, it's architecture physically cant allow it to be sentient, it can be self aware without being sentient. Plants and mushrooms are very simple they send signals but not in a way that could give arise to any meaningfull type of experience. Consciousness isn't an abstract thing it's objective and quantifiable, there is no guessing whether or not something is conscious/sentient/whatever, it's just a matter of finding out what it objectively is. If anyone has ambiguity about this they just don't understand the science
Great to see you back! Loving the videos so far.
If animals aren’t supposed to be eaten, why are they made out of food?
arent humans also made out of meat and food?
so by that logic, if HUMANS arent supposed to be eaten, why are they made out of food?
because its CANNIBILISM if you do so.
checkmate
A question as old as time
People are also made of food.
What about humans
@@jonnaas even better
Yes please make this a series and ask all those people you mentioned
There is a difference between the "Vegan Lifestyle" and the "Vegan Diet"
People on the Vegan Diet: "im not eating any meat or anything from any animals."
People on the Vegan Lifestyle: "IM BETTER THAN YOU BECAUSE IM VEGAN DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY ANIMALS DIE BECAUSE OF YOUR...." and so on
Vegans always ask "How can you eat an animal?" I respond with either pan-fried or sous vide.
I mean you could answer this to pretty much anything right, how do you eat a puppy? How do you eat a baby?
A funny dark humour response but still doesn't justify the act
@@allandm My comment was a light mockery of the people who respond with the same thing, word-for-word, whenever they enter into an argument with a vegan on social media. It's the equivalent of telling a trans person, "I identify as an attack helicopter." It has been overused so much that it's past the point of being unfunny and is simply lame.
You answer your first question. You know there are vegans in New York City that eat meat? They're homeless and they've created an elaborate underground food Network to help keep the impoverished alive. People who are in this community are commonly both a vegan and eat the meat that they find because they subsist only off of the waste of businesses. If they weren't there to pull it out of the bag and eat it it would have gone to waste so they ration they should eat it.
It’s tradition to like Grades videos as soon as you open them. That button is pressed before the ads even finish
1. For cows: cows don't randomly produce milk, only during and shortly after pregnancy. "backyard milk" requires the constant production of more cows - what are you going to do with your growing family? Build an ever larger ranch so that they can play ps5 in peace? The veal industry is a by-product of the milk industry - the reality is that the offspring of milk cows have to be killed, otherwise the population would be growing uncontrollably. Backyard chickens are a more complex issue, but the short answer is that the life of a modern egg-laying hen is not a good life. Plus, there's the uncomfortable question with what you do with the 50% of chickens that come out male and will never lay eggs. In reality, they're mostly killed.
2. Most people (besides those that consider life/bodies to be "sacred" in some way, which is religious woo and not a widely held belief) consider roadkill to be vegan, assuming you didn't do something to intentionally bring about the animal's death. It's gross, but it's vegan.
3. Jesus is made up and not related to veganism.
4. Mushrooms aren't sentient creatures. Anecdotes about their DNA aside, I don't think you (or anyone) believes this argument in good faith and I won't waste any time on it.
Good responses but I don't think this guy GENUINELY wants to hear answers from the vegan side, he just wants to make fun of vegans.
as an indigenous man, i was firmly taught to never waste an animal's body. every part would be used, and nothing could be discarded. this is infinitely more respectful than just wasting an entire animal carcass or, even bigger picture, refusing to eat the food put on the land for us lol
dude please dont make furries look bad it makes it worse for all of us furries arent zoophiles
All two of you
@@zeldmin Fr his jokes also make us zoophiles look bad too!😡
Cope
my dad is a vegan but he has an immune system problem and animal protiens worsen his condition, he is not annoying about it or something he just eats with us when we are eating meat and just has some meat replacements instead of real meat so it still feels like we are eating toghether
Well, that could make sense, if one person has a problem issue and must not eat animal products because of it.. But problem is why to be aggressive towards other for eating animal products? It is like a some sort of cult more than it is a solution for health issues. xD
ONE question i do have for vegans, is why (some) of them dont want to eat honey, because it "exploits" bees. but if you look into it, bees actually consent in you taking part of their honey, as they are technically free roam, and can leave at any point if they feel their owner is cruel to them
Please don't use a picture of furries to represent zoophiles, noone hates zoophiles more than furries.. :O
Anywho, as an actual vegan, lemme do my best to answer these questions (yes, I am aware this video is meant to be mostly a joke, but I'm bored), and if any of this pisses anyone off, these answers are just my oppinion on the matter, I am not saying this goes for all vegans, or even for anyone other than myself, I'm just having a bit of fun.. xD And if anyone think I've wasted their time with this: Nah bro, you did that yourself, noone's forcing you to read the garbage I decided to dump from my brain.. :P
1. I don't consume milk or eggs because milk makes my tummy hurt, and eggs are literally chicken menstruation! XD Also, I am personally not vegan for the sake of the animals, but one of my reasons to be vegan is the environment, and one HUGE thing we could do is drastically decrease the amount of animal products we use, that way we need to produce less of them, which not only reduces the amount of cows to fart up a storm, but also the amount of plants we need to grow.. :P A vast majority of the crops we produce are for feeding animals in the meat industry.. xD
2. A lot of other vegans are gonna disagree with me here, but you go right ahead and eat that cow! XD I personally don't care if others eat meat, as long as I don't have to eat any of it, and here's a somewhat controversial thing, I have nothing against animal products outside of food, I might call myself a vegan, but it's only my diet that's vegan.. :P I even use a shampoo with honey in it, it works wonder for my dye-damaged hair, and I wear necklaces made from leather string! XD But while I politically speaking believes we should cut down on meat production and consumption, I am also not gonna stop anyone from eating as much meat as they want to, expecially if they're just eating an animal that just randomly died.. ^^ Waste not, want not, or whatever that saying is.. xD
3 (not counting the ad-read). Because God is a sadistic SOB, I mean, have you read the Bible? XD There's some fucked up shit in there! XD (just to clarify, no, I am clearly not a Christian, to me the Bible is nothing more than a collection of fairytales that people decided to take literally, or well, only the parts that align with their personal world views)
4. Well, mushrooms are typically considered to be plants, even if they're not, they're technically an entire lifeform class of their own, but they're not sentient, and I think that's more or less where the line is drawn.. :P If this means that vegans can eat jellyfish and sea cucubmers, I do not know, but I personally don't wanna eat either of those.. xD But following your logic: Should vegans then also not eat potatoes? :P You see, people with downs syndrome have an extra chromozone, and potatoes have two chromozones more than typical human beings, meaning that people with downs syndrome are one chromozone away from being potatoes.. xD
Can't wait for the next one on this, this is fun! :D
bro really loves the XD lol
except for "kero" and "sappho" and their friends, and the others furry creeps ...
🤣
@@jeremielebrun3637 People like that are exiled from the community, they might still call themselves furries, but they are not recognized as one by the rest of us..
@@MojitoMousesorry, I was teasing you...
but in the end, that's not very hard to believe and,
"all in your community's honor"
@@bisher69 I know, I'm hella cringe.. xD
So you've thought up these cute little ways in which you could supposedly get animal products ethically.
Now I could try to debunk these but I'd rather point out that even by your own logic that would leave 99.99% of animal products are in fact not produced ethically.
Resident vegan here to answer these questions!
1.
So most vegans want to reframe how we look at and relate to non human animals. So even if you're treating the cows and chickens you have fairly, the purpose of having them is to use their byproducts. It would be like if you adopted children for the intention of having them do chores. Intentions matter. To make it worse, the breeds of cows and chickens used for dairy and eggs have been selectively bred to over produce milk/eggs. So they already just live worse lives.
There's no reason to continue to breed more into existence. You can let dairy cows just not get pregnant (or let their children feed if they already have them) and for chickens, when they lay eggs it actually causes them to lose essential nutrients at a fast rate. Wild hens lay close to one egg per month where as egg laying hens lay closer to one egg per day. This causes them to lose a lot of calcium and suffer bone fractures. It's best to leave the hens alone with their eggs or to feed them back to them with the shell.
2.
This is actually a point of divide amongst vegans. Some would argue in favor of what you said. Since the animal passed on and you stumbled upon them, it's open season. The problem that other vegans might bring up is what I mentioned before, changing how we relate to non human animals. If you would respect the body of a dead human and not a dead non human animal, then that becomes an issue, as you're making an arbitrary distinction that promotes the subjugation of non human animals. If you're fine with doing whatever with that dead human body, then I guess you're staying consistent.
3.
This one seemed to be mostly a joke, but the truth of the matter is that our empathy towards animals tends to be snuffed out as we're taught that they're lesser than and therefore it's okay to use and kill them.
4.
Fungi are very complex and interesting organisms, and while I haven't done the research on this, I haven't heard much about them experiencing suffering and pain or expressing sentience in the way that animals do (not to say that their intelligence and level of complexity isn't astounding. There was a really cool documentary on it).
According to my vegan sister, the 1st question is because they are "imprisoned and should be in the wild..." we have cats. She also loves mushrooms, literally her favourite food.
I did actually hear about some weird hippy friend of my aunt who took psychadelics and rides around europe on a bike. He is a vegan that eats raw food only, so mainly broccoli and shite like that. But he does eat roadkill. Apparently he once had 2 deer legs strapped to his bike.
Vegan here.
I understand the eggs and milk thing, and I’ve been asked about it before. To me, it feels wrong to eat products that are meant for baby animals. Cow milk is for baby cows and eggs can be baby chickens. There’s no other animal that regularly drinks another animal’s milk. So it may not be unethical, but to me it just feels wrong.
Yes, eating the dead cow is okay in my opinion. I still wouldn’t do it because animal flesh grosses my out, but I think it’s okay.
I’m not religious, so I’ll skip that part.
Mushrooms are not sentient and cannot feel pain or love, and they cannot suffer. So we can eat them. I still don’t, mushrooms are gross.
Thanks for the video tho. Love you grade ❤
I'm down for drinking ethically sourced eggs and milk, it's just the means of how its done.
Eggs can only be chickens if fertilized. Most of the eggs for consumptions are not.
@@player1_fanatic hence why I said “can be” chickens. Different people have different views on this which is totally fine, but in my specific and personal opinion, I don’t like to eat animal products.
@@benaronson2410
You do not understand. If an egg is unfertilized. It will become nothing. What makes eating an unfertilized egg unethical?
@@VariantAEC I feel like you're not reading my comments. Some eggs become chickens. Therefore eggs as a concept are things that have the capacity to become animals. We good so far? Great. Vegans don't want to eat things that can become animals or things that come from animals. Therefore we don't eat eggs; fertilized or unfertilized. Understand now?
3:35 Propane. You gotta use propane, Grade.
I am a vegan, I just prefer that the cow does the digestion.
5:42 no offense, and im not a vegan either i dont have anything against them or you, but when an onion is sliced onion's cells release compounds into the air, then enzyme works and you bassicaly cry, not the god's fault
yeah, the onion thing is a stupid argument. Pretty funny though, which was the only real point of it.
God made onion
Honestly i love this as a concept for a series about "asking groups of people questions ive always wanted an answer for". Its good stuff
Hello, Grade, I am a huge fan and also a vegan. Even though I realise the humorous nature of the video, I want to address the questions, as I find such debates interesting and important. :)
0) I think everyone can define veganism for themselves; I think anyone can call themselves vegan and have that connected to whatever they please; I also think people who dwell on specific words, such as who is or isn’t a vegan miss the point,
1) I don’t eat eggs because even if they are from a chicken who is loved and hugged, I will never have the certainty that that’s what the chicken desires and gets fulfilment from; I also ask where did that chicken come from? or its parents? is its existence an evidence of an unfortunate and long lasting mistreatment of animals based on people’s superiority derived from their superior intelligence? probably yes. do I have to eat eggs to gain something otherwise unobtainable? no, so I will rather avoid doing so and make sure I avoid violating any morality standards; lastly, I want to protest and see people that I am protesting; so, even if the egg was somehow produced ethically and I am confident it is so, I might avoid it to raise awareness; with milk it’s simple: cows only lactate to feed their offspring; drinking milk is always intrusive,
2) I actually think eating a cow “who just drops dead” or making a jacket or a necklace out of it could be fine; I honestly don’t think such scenario possible, but if it somehow were to happen, eating or using the cow would actually decrease your environmental impact in comparison with just letting the cow rot,
3) I don’t hate people who hurt animals; I never enforce anything on anyone; I almost never initiate a conversation about my veganism; I believe there are vegans who make us look extreme; I am afraid judging all vegans based on the extreme cases (who get, as is usual with extreme cases, much more media coverage and publicity; lol, no one would ever care about my story: I eat beans and grains. end of story) is a fallacy,
4) the point about crying while cutting an onion was hilarious; I love such jokes and love people who can come up with creative ways to make fun of my veganism,
5) I eat mushrooms because they show no signs of pain, consciousness, sentience, volition or happiness-seeking (and I am not aware of their consumption’s connectedness to unhealthiness or environmental damage); I never consider the cells’ likeness to some other cells while deciding what to eat. 🤔
3:34 You're strawmaning. Eating roadkill is actually generally accepted in veganism.
Yep, it's totally vegan. Doesn't mean we're all going to do it. but yep, totally vegan.
Not a vegan but you know cows dont just produce milk. They need to have kid each year which gets taken away from the mother almost instantly kinda sad yet i still drink milk everyday😅
This video is packed with hypotheticals which meat-eaters commonly use to excuse the guilt they feel.
Or he's trying to share the joy of munching flesh?
Bruh who eats a burger and thinks aww man I feel so guilty rn xD
you should feel guilty for making that dumb comment
6:35 they'd probably respond with something about how mushrooms arent sentient.
And in that case I wonder if Vegans could eat fish? Or at least like sea anemone.
Like what is the standard of sentience here?
Fish probably not but there are some who argue that essentially brainless animals are okay to eat.
Fish are sentient according to the latest science, but there is a lot of discussion about bivalves like clams, mussels, etc that aren’t sentient scientifically. The acceptance of those animals being eaten is done by some vegans and not by others, it’s still a very discussed topic 😊
@@Lighthammer18 jellyfish?
@@mikethegoo Yeah that's another example.
Honestly hilarious video, really wish you would do more of these.
0:05 ???