Who Has The Better LPVO? Army Vs USMC
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2023
- Guess which one broke. (Hint it's the indestructible one)
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ASSFacts he is waking around with stolen valor, he was on bravo company with me a group of guys, he quit after he sprained his ankle. Now walks around larping. Glad he’s not with our team, kinda guy that leave his teammates to dry.
Ouch... Wtf
@@toddinfl had to put him on blast after he left mid training mission, left us to carry the load, then complained said that it was his ankle, then when medical facts came out, it was a light sprain, meanwhile you had 2 guys with rhabomyolysis from carrying the extra weight, and one guy with broken forward carrying weight finishing the training mission. Light sprain. He left after the drama piled out and the facts came out. Quitter.
@@toddinfl had to put him on blast after he left mid training mission, left us to carry the load, then complained said that it was his ankle, then when medical facts came out, it was a light sprain, meanwhile you had 2 guys with rhabomyolysis from carrying the extra weight, and one guy with broken forward carrying weight finishing the training mission. Light sprain. He left after the drama piled out and the facts came out. Quitter.
Do you have proof, or are you just a guy on the internet?
You're gonna complain because he injured himself and decided not to injure himself worse? You seem like the problem here. Also, stolen valor implies military service.
The best thing about the VCOG is the ruggedized mount. They should make more LPVOs like that. And they could also make it fixed magnification to make it even more rugged, and the reduced complexity would make it cheaper and lighter. They could call it the "Advanced VCOG" or "ACOG" for short.
but, but, muh eye relief
It's an RCO to the Marines damn it 😂 maybe it's not designated that anymore though? Idk
😂
Hahaha nice. Yeah, I still rock the TA11 and have no interest switching.
And yes, the TA31 is still called the RCO.
I knew there was a reason I liked you.
Double vision means you can see 50% more enemy per enemy.
that math ain't matching cuh 😂
@mrtaylorhelm as the great warrior poet, Big Shaq, once said, "2 plus 2 is 4 minus 1 that's 3, quickmaffs"
fire the whole round. that's 50% more bullet per bullet.
@@BrassFacts real talk, wouldn't that realistically be 75% more bullet per bullet? 🤔
@@kooldoor69 are you correcting Cave Johnson? Bold move.
The thing about the USMC is that they are going to stick with a brand they know. Trijicon has proven themselves with every sight system the USMC has contracted. It is a no brainer that they would go with this.
FYI, they want mils for a DMR so they can do call for fire maneuvers. The USMC infantry units rely heavily on mortor teams, and something like this can help walking fire onto a target.
You did it. They said it couldn’t be done. Countless marines were unsuccessful, but you managed to break a vcog👏👏👏
It’s because he sniffs markers instead of eating crayons.
The SCAR-H broke a VCOG but multiple reports have shown up about Marines breaking a SCAR-H. Checkmate. There's always a bigger fish.
I would point out the thing that had me confident in getting the vcog was I couldn't find a single used one for sale on the internet at the time I purchased it, people were holding on to what they were buying. That is high praise for an optic thats been selling more than 1 year.
hop eotech theory!
@@BrassFactseasily disproven with a single glance at Tacswap/GAFS, sadly.
@@BrassFactshop elcan* theory
@@BrassFactsi didnt like my eotech… sold it and bought a romeo 8t for my scar
@@pablo4yuthe only problem I have with eotech is the battery life and not only that but even having the battery in with the optic off still drains the fucking battery
Another point for the PLXc, I've had it on my scar 17 for over 1000 rounds on an ADM delta, and it's still going strong.
This comment was primarily to flex that I have a SCAR 17, as is tradition.
@@irradiatedrunnermajor flex… hope you feel validated… cuz I’m jealous 😅😂
I cried in anger over my poverty, bought a BCM Haley jack and I’ll sit in the room like the rest of the poors at carbine class “ staring at you and your scar”…🤣
And the BCM wears a sig tango 6…
Marine can even take care of their Iron sights without braking them.
Army soldiers can't even zero an M68 CCO without taking a whole qualifying day.
Marines take 2 weeks. What are you talking about?
Bruh, you don't take the whole 2 weeks to zero. Quit hating.
Lollipop that sheeee (CCO)
They can, they just pretend to get more range time and shooting fun lol
@@SaraphDarklawunapologetic leftist watching gun channels. Bounce barracks bunny
The commonality of the AA battery is a big plus.
AA batteries are a huge miss because its an extra battery type I gotta carry around at work. Same with AA powered NVGs.
They're cheap, available, and come in rechargeable. All huge deals outside the US. And at the rate US cities are going it needs to be a major concern when picking power options.
Late to the party but the AA battery really doesn't get emphasized enough. The coin batteries are fine for range use but I'm not dealing with them in the field. AA already have to be carried for NODs and they're very easy to take out and put in.
i can confirm about the 1x setting on the sig being way way to small and dim, i did field op in 29 palms (Yes its as bad as the stories say) and we were shooting our short bay drills and the against the desert background you cant quickly pick up the reticle, the majority of us put it on 3x and it was a good balance. but its wayyyy better then our acogs. i hate that optic, if we all had shooters preference, you'd probably see a lot of eotechs and magnifiers
The VCOG is a tank of an optic. I'll lean towards the SCAR just yeeting the optic like it's generally known for.
Scar doing scar things indeed
The motion has been moved and seconded
Scardy har har
Former marine here and I gotta root for my team…. Also, that SCAR looks sexy AF, so might be little biased. Even if the scar heavy has destroyed more optics than the entire USMC 😊
You’d think they’d come up with something to tame that vibration.
@@thomassellers3813 All new SCARs have a non-reciprocating charging handle, which I believe was a large contributor to that issue
Don’t buy a SCAR is the big take away here.
Never tried one but the mount just makes so much sense on the Vcog.
"The United Marine Corps" The implications of which are just, a lot--especially for an LPVO review.
My thought exactly 🙏
just got a SCO before the videos started dropping.
my 2 cents on it. I bought it sight unseen, and I'm happy with it. Like the reticle, like the glass, like the mount, can manage the weight, and don't ever run it in 1 power, run it somewhere between 2-3 if I'm on the low power setting, prefer how it brackets what I'm looking at.
To me the greatest drawback on the VCOG is the lack of integral mounting for a red dot. That seems like a major set back. There are also no 3rd party mounts at this time. IMHO that would just make it my fav if I could get one of those on there.
It is a set of compromises but for my uses it is perfect. I would say one thing is that overall I'm still not a fan of the LPVO concept. I think a 2.5-12 or 3-14 in a similar sized package would accomplish more than the compromising 1 power of an LPVO. No LPVO 1 power is as good as any red dot or holographic option. And even with excellent reticles, the top magnification can often times be limiting.
Unity makes one
Scalarworks too is coming out with an ACOG mount that can accept one of their RMR offset mounts.
Also LaRue makes a ring that mounts to the vcog body so can take RMRs or T1/T2 pattern
It’s always about trade offs. Durability and survivability comes with a weight cost…and dollar cost. This is why we still use the M-1 tank after 45 years, we cannot afford it’s replacement.
Jump to 5:20 if you want to see Hop actually shooting a gun that costs more than a McDonald's paycheck.
(he hated it)
@@BrassFactsis it the non reciprocating model?
My grunt buddies love the VCOG. Take that for what it's worth. Also to be fair, the VCOG was designed for 556.
Oh! Is that true? I never could really find a definitive answer on that when I first looked into the VCOG.
@@jeremysumrak1842 no, its multical hence no bdc reticle.
Finally got my PLXc. Checked all the boxes for me, and I went with the meters reticle so it's not as busy as the yards. Seems like it's the LPVO to beat right now, it's pretty incredible. Like you said, it's some kind of magic how it pulls of that 1x.
You ought to check out the March 1-10 “shorty” w/ dual focal plane reticle. The illuminated center dot is on the 2nd focal plane, where the crosshairs, stadia, etc are on the 1st focal plane. The PLXc is an excellent choice though!! Def the best sub $2k LPVO on the market right now for sure!!
@evanacey1414 thank you. March shorty is insane. Then the 1.5-15 came into my life and now my wallet will always be bleeding haha
@@evanacey1414S&B did it first
Total noob question here. How does the meter version work on ranges in yards? Is the BDC still relatively accurate or do you have to make major adjustments?
@user1138 All depends on how you zero it. You can adjust your zero distance in a ballistic app until it lines up with the BDC for yards. Or the math is pretty easy to do. Just add 10% to the distance in yards and you'll be really close to the distance in meteres. Or subtract 10% from the distance in yards to get it in meters. It's not perfect, but it's close enough to make adjustments on the fly.
Idk why but it is so fucking satisfying when something people assume is indestructible breaks hilariously easy. People make assumptions about a product without actually testing it themselves, and when stuff like this happens it validates my skepticism.
Great video homie! Been thinking about picking up one of these vcogs
Vcog constant eye relief and rock solid durability unbeatable
A video that shows/explains the circumstances that make an illuminated reticle necessary vs. unnecessary would be interesting.
it's very difficult because cameras suck, bad. I will try to mention it in my lpvo comparison video.
Necessary -> reticle is thin and optimized solely for tack driving at max magnification, therefore actually needs the vaunted ""daylight bright"" center dot to cover up the literally unuseable 1x reticle
Not necessary -> thick german no 4 style stadia that naturally indexes eye to center, additional locating features like a horseshoe or bars or a chevron that do not require illum to find
It's necessary when there is little/no light outside and/or your target is the same colour as your crosshairs.
So far my experience is "illumination is not necessary except near dawn/dusk and when chasing stuff at night without white light." That last one needs some decent moonlight and doesn't happen in dense tree cover.
@@woodsghost9088 theres a secondary factor; when the brightness gets to red dot bright levels, it lets you be extremely target focused and fast.
For the same reason why we turn out Red Dot sights up bright, and not just to visible.
Or how high vis sights on pistols aid in speed.
@@BrassFacts the problem with this is that you get really piss poor battery life this way
A vortex gen III might get on paper 300h which sounds ok
Except it's at 50%, not 100% as required to actually do the "daylight bright" meme
Granted 2032s aren't the hardest to carry around but it's a losing battle if you're *reliant* on daylight bright to not lose your reticle in daylight
FN, in their quest to rip off other designs as lazily as possible, didn't understand why the AK piston was wobbly, so they just made it a solid piece. now we get to have a gun that destroys itself and everything attached to it.
So many stories about SCAR failing apart and being unreliable...i guess it's easier to hate on something than buy jt.
@@baektpotato why would i buy something that sucks
No guns.
The SCAR doesn’t work like an AK.
@@borkwoof696 they made it have a massive oprod because at the time everyone thought the AK was more reliable because it used a piston. that's also why the 416 exists. GWOT broscience basically
Funny enough this is 2/3 of the LPVOs I'm considering purchasing for my current GPR. Thanks for the content and helping me narrow down my decision.
You forgot the game changer feature of the Tango 6: the fiber optic tubes on the adjustment ring.
HELLFIRE BRIGHT ZOOM RING
Given the cost of these things I'm always shocked at how many LPVOs you manage to review.
my wallet is also shocked, but also dismayed.
Most of it is just buying and then selling at a 200-300 dollar loss.
@@BrassFacts In these quantities that kinda thing adds up fast. I need to get off my ass and start throwing you a few bucks on subscribestar. I really do enjoy your, hop, and crew's content.
@@BrassFactshow much do you make back from the vids,
@@sbura_ ~250 bucks on average. Some of the really high view ones make 500
@@BrassFactswith that being said, thanks for the content. You and Hop some of the best.
Was going back and forth between a Credo 1-8 and a VCOG 1-8, and ultimately decided wit$ going with the Credo. Just the fact that I can get the Credo and a Scalarworks LEAP mount and still be cheaper than the VCOG is what sold me at the end
I have a couple of the Credo (formerly Accupower) 1-8 scopes, as well as a Tango 6T FFP. Like all of them but the Trijicon 1-8 has the best eyebox of any scope I've ever used.
I hate all Sig products. I don’t understand why they charge so much for inferior value.
Boom 💥 truth bomb 💣
It’s brassfacts time !!!
Thank you for your service
Great video. Love the USMC references. 0311 myself and I completely agree.
I got out before they switched to the vcogs, how are they?
@@CH-ce5jv same, I’d like to know too.
Awesome video love clone stuff
I lost it at M-1 Sherman brake😂😂
This new generation and their dang gizmos, back in my day we could hit a man from 1200 meters with irons!
gobless
You keep doing exactly what your doing, you WILL be a household name in the tactical community. I cant see it any other way
He already is
I bought my Tango 6t FFP when it was around $1100 a couple years ago. In that price range, due to it's durability and 1x performance it was very tough to beat. Its IPX8 rating means continuous submersion up to 66ft. ((Look at the Vortex Razor HD for comparison (IPX7)) It speaks to the seal and long-term durability of the optic compared to other $1500 and under FFP LPVOs.
You should ask some guys in service about the durability of a Tango 6t lol…
Sounds like a Scar doing scar things. I loved my Vcog when I have it but I do see issues with the mount. Even loctited on a Scar 17 the mount would come loose.
The one thing I hated about the Vcog was the reticle. Too big on 8X and a cluttered mess on 1X to me.
Personally I switched to an ATACR 1-8. The 1X is just alright but 8X kicks ass with the Fc-DMX reticle.
For a long time I played the game of revolving door of lpvo’s every 3-6 months Id change. Im going on 1 year now with the ATACR
Using all of this localized footage i should be able to track down brassfacts and! Give nova all the treats because she's a sweet dog and deserves them 😊
I could barely focus on this video reading the schizo rant thread.... will need to rewatch
honestly, the schizo rant thread is the hidden real content of this video.
The video was just background ambience .
TANGO has had some growing pains as a ton of them broken waiting repairs in arms rooms
Dang. Do you have to send them all back to Beijing for repair or do they just buy replacements factory direct off Temu?
Brassfacts Friday 🎉🎉🎉
Damn, my first VCOG (1-6) has survived for 10 years and over 6k rounds on my SCAR 17. I hope your buddy's SCO was just a fluke. I picked one up when they were first released but have yet to try it on my SCAR.
I have the VCOG SCO version on my DDM5 v3, and I like it just fine. Without a mag it comes in at 12.8 lbs, which is a fairly heavy setup, but for what it is I am in acceptance.
Maybe the military should hire you guys to do real live testing on the new scopes lol
only if they provide the beer
@@BrassFacts that is a given lol they should know better.
Funnily enough, I have the VCOG SCO on one of my AR's, and I've had the Tango 6 break while on my SCAR 17 - but was it monched by the SCAR, or did I break since I'm a Marine? Or the unholy combination of both? Anyways, an ELCAN lives on that bastard now. Both are great optics and the only reason I got rid of the Tango was to help fund the ELCAN.
Yeah Scar piston system travels violently back AND forth which chews on non ruggedized optic. Elcan and Marine LPVO can surivive it, other glass much less. (and IR devices!)
My only complaint about the 6T is the magnification ring. It's a tad too loose and easy to actuate when bouncing off your gear. I've had two units, and they all had the same issue.
Any interest in reviewing the vcog 1-6x? The reticle options are much better with an acog like bdc, seems more apples to apples against the sig ffp 1-6.
It is sad everybody but the US makes optics, such as scopes prisms and red dots that are 100% USA made or at least none that I have heard of..
I like the corvette logo on the impala
You ought to check out the March 1-10 “shorty” w/ dual focal plane reticle. The illuminated center dot is on the 2nd focal plane, where the crosshairs, stadia, etc are on the 1st focal plane!! Genius, right?!
...how the heck would you zero it? Now I want to buy one of those just to take it apart
OH YEAH A NEW BRASS FACTS!!
If only Primary Arms ans Trijicon collabed to put the Raptor M8 in the VCOG
Army doesn't field this on M4s, it comes on the HK M110A1 SDMR package. Saw one get water in it after one field problem and never considered it again. NOT the Army's new optic, unlike the trijicon for the USMC
Steiner p4xi 1-4x ($500) in a Warne 1.93” Mount ($100) with a 12 o’clock Romeo 1 ($175) on a GG&G Comp B Mount ($65) for passive aiming with NODs.
Every was bought on sale, but that being said it’s a cost effective setup that expands capability without sacrificing quality.
I love my DVO but I'm definitely biased lol the vcog is definitely up there and i want one for sure but dont knock the DVO till you get some time with it!
personal experience, diopter will zoom the image slightly so for true 1x wear a glasses. also zeroing shifts the image, so having a canted mount helps
God I need to buy a SCAR, still salty I missed that 2600$ sale posted a week ago
WHAT.
When you said you broke one I immediately said "I bet it was the VCOG, and it was the reticle glass."
Yup.
USMC is seeing this as well. The reticle is popping out, sometimes even cracking. A lot of the time it'll only work at certain magnification range afterwards because reticle isn't positioned right.
Do you have any experience with the Vortex strike eagle 3-18x44 ffp? I'm looking for a medium-long range optic for my 6arc and scope shopping is a steep learning curve. Price and features sound promising but not sure about glass quality and durability.
Hey Brass, I've been eyeing the Credo 1-6 HX . Ever played with one? If so what's your opinion?
love the Village People mustache!
I guess they hid this video from me? Keep it up 🦍🏴
4:47 I love those old crvs
this is the first Ive actually heard of a scar breaking an optic, impressive
Vcog all the way
Thanks!
Now I’d be curious about doing the same thing with sig tango on the scar just see if it lasts longer or goes quicker. I do think it’s a scar thing and not the optic but I am wondering if it would last longer.
I like to imagine that there is actually a gun underneath that optic and you're just aimlessly walking around parking lots terrifying your neighbors
building my first AR15(.223 Wylde) & Ar308 both 16" looking to buy 2 LPVO's that would work for both. any recommendations? not interested in the spending over 2500 bucks per scope
real talk I wish more scopes used the vcog mount
Thanks for the entertaining video. BUT: not knowing all the abbreviation/designation of the better alternatives you named, starting at 10:12, it would had been a great help naming the manufacturers too. Maybe adding a short pinned notice in the comments?
I love my vcog on my CZ Bren 2ms. I do wish the fin was bigger or a knob. Its can be slick with gloves at least for me.
LMAO I was considering a vcog for my Scar
Brother, you have to get the Carbon fiber Lancer rail for the SCAR It’s right behind the Geissele trigger for most essential upgrade !
With regard to the ring around + on the vcog. ive learned its way eaiser to use ring to aim rather then the center aim point. at 1X. i can pick it up alot faster.
Thursday trex videos, friday brass facts and 2 underground. nice cap to the week
S2*
That’s why if I ever get a scar 17 it’s gonna be the non reciprocating version
How is the 1x image of the primary arms cyclops compared to these two?
Imma just go with my bois cuz im biased. Oooorah!!!
We did get it right with the acog after all
That's interesting that the vcog got screwed up. I still haven't figured out if I want to get into the lpvo gang but I have leaned towards an atacr eventually. Sticking with my eotech with 3x for now but the capability to use better magnification to id stuff really has me itching for more.
I run the VCOG over our issues atacr. Scars kill anything including Elcans but Elcans are overhyped pieces of shit. Just because it’s a sopmod piece of equipment doesn’t make it good. Case in point Elcans and insight lights
I don’t run LPVOs anymore but owned the ATACR and VCOG 1-8. Would take the VCOG all day again. Great mounting system and not much heavier than the ATACR with a BO mount
I spent the 2k on a vcog for a 12.5" do it all. Certain features make it absolutely the best in class, even if other features or the lack thereof are head scratchers.
If you don't stick it on a scar, it'll double as a hammer, so that's nice
Kinda funny, the VCOG is touted as the toughest LPVO on the market, when it's just a Credo/Accupoint stuffed into an ACOG-inspired housing. Whereas the Tango6T may look bog standard, it has the beefiest internals on the market.
That ultra thin body on the vcog is reminiscent of the razor.. im sold, where do i max my card at😂
it's the result of the camera position, and poor FOV of the camera. The vcog has a huge massive body much like a smaller elcan to the human eye.
I got a PLXc on your recommendation. It's pretty damn good and WAY lighter than either of these which is a big plus. The vcog has that intangible cool factor though.
Don't worry, give the PLXc enough time and it'll gain a mythical reputation too. Then you can be a hipster who bought it before the hype. :P
Reject modernity. Return to carry handle.
……..and acog in the slot lol
Please keep us updated on the VCOG on the SCAR17S, I had the same setup and it broke my VCOG. I'm sure you saw TFBs article where they had the same result.
Fun fact, this was that exact SCAR and VCOG featured in that article.
@@ABowlofPho well, here's hoping the VCOG stays fixed, because I finally got them to fix mine.
I thought I was the only one who saw double With the sig tango6t. Constantly adjusting the eye piece
Vcog for sure.
Curious if the NRCH Scar 17 has the same optics issues, or if that fixes it.
Lol the scar is a meme
Give me whatever isn’t a Vortex 😂
I got to imagine that issue you experienced with the Vcog is a sort of one off issue with the optic less the scar 17 to be frank. I imagine if you contact trijicon they'd take care of the issue.
they did.
Yeah but the fact it happened on a 2k optic.... On a service weapon analogue no less.
I’ll take the AA batteries over CR123 that are way harder to find and are more expensive. Plus it’s almost impossible to get rechargeable CR123 while the AA has tons rechargeable companies.
Only downside, Alkaline AA's if left in the optic will inevitably self discharge, leak, and ruin a $2k optic's electrical system. So you're going to be running energizer lithiums. And yes, even rechargable AA's leak. There are LiFe RCR123's out there, but they're about 60% rated capacity of their primary lithium CR123's. I realize that not having enough batteries is a logistics issue, consider buying in bulk. I'm finally down to my last pack of Panasonic CR123s I bought in 2008. Because lithiums have a low self discharge rate, they're still usable, and haven't leaked their contents all over each other. To each their own, but this is my experience.
@@highdesertdrew1844 Honestly I've never had leaking AA or AAA rechargeable batteries. I've always went with Duracell and Energizer and I've had them sitting there for years between or before use. I know lesser brands build the housing worse so that could be why I guess you had that experience.
Good points across the board. Question i have is which multicam pack is that?
probably the DG3
@BrassFacts As a soldier the need for the auto range feature is not needed as it is for civilian use. Reason is as a soldier you have many others who supply this capability so one can concentrate on the task at hand. In other words, no Lone Wolf shit in the military.
I’d love to see a review or two of SighTron’s products. We have a couple of their scopes and I’ve always wanted to hear someone’s opinion of them that isn’t the guy at the local shop trying to peddle them. For what it’s worth, we’re happy with their performance for the price, and they just recently came out with their own LPVO.
MK17 doing MK17 things. Had a 17S and miss it -- but it dusted a pretty good scope