The VSO Gun Channel can be found here: ruclips.net/user/VigilantSpectre The testing plan can be found here: www.ryanmcbeth.com/single-post/does-5-56-twist-rate-effect-accuracy Connect with me on Twitter: @ryanmcbeth Watch my long form videos: ruclips.net/p/PLt670_P7pOGmLWZG78JlM-rG2ZrpPziOy Join the conversation: discord.gg/pKuGDHZHrz Want to send me something? Ryan McBeth Productions LLC 8705 Colesville Rd. Suite 249 Silver Spring, MD 20910 USA
Completely miss the point. Note not a political comment. In any type of situation having something to defend your self with is better than not having anything at all. An Ar might not be up to level as other military grade weapons but it sure will help you put a fight against the enemy. The same can be said if a foreign nation decided to attack the mainland USA citizens will have a better change at defending their land with an Ar15 than their bare hands.
The AR-15 reminds me of Jersey high schools in the 90’s. I gotta mustang.. oh me 2. Live in the city? I hope you don’t use that bike on those streets, I think my cousin would get mad if she found out.
I once heard that a list of weapons of ordinary infantryman in relation to their effectiveness from best to the ones you can ignore looks like this: 1)radio; 2)map; 3)binoculars; 4)entrenching tool; 5)anything else. So I guess it and other small arms nowadays are at least useful to scare away other poor infantrymen and to look imposing to civilians?
I'm in Ukrainian army. Use M4A1 twist 1/7 Before i used my AR-15 1/8 twist Most of rounds that i have 62 grain As i know, best twist for this is 1/8 But main issue why i changed my AR to M4 is barrel thickness and more solid handguard rail. Maybe it's not only about twist. Main issue now is artillery (russians have a lot) and "eyes". Small firearms not main problem in most cases. Small firearms not main problem.
Володя, у вас хватает 5.56? Все переходят на натовский калибр или большенство предпочитают 74ки? Я родился в Ленинграде, уехал в США ещё в 89ом, в детстве. Американец по гражданству. Здесь служил в ВВС. Но мамины все были из Украины: Дед из Мариуполя, бабушка из Нежина. Вся семья деда похоронена в Ахробазе. На папиной, дед из Минска, а бабушка из Суража (Брянская обл.) Все всегда одинаково жили, как одни. Мои детские каникулы были проведены в Харькове и Чернигове. Меня всё это убивает в душе. Чем мы можем больше помочь?
Anything you can bolt on a M4 , you can bolt on a semi automatic only model… barrels, handguards , optics. I build service model clone rifles… with FN contract barrels and knights Armament railed handguards , ACOG 4x optics…. There is no practical difference except no burst or full auto. The FRT-15 trigger does a pretty good impression though, and commercial binary triggers pretty much equal a military gun with 2 shot burst. Out at distance, semiautomatic is used by most soldiers. Even a Thompson submachinegun was used alot more on semiautomatic than most realized… you couldn’t carry enough of that heavy .45acp to spray everything in sight, your seven 30 rd mags would be empty pretty quick, if you were stupid.
@@p99guy Yes. You can bolt on anything. No. They’re not exactly as accurate as military versions. They’re also not as durable. Does that really matter? Does it make a difference in how it would be fielded in Ukraine? No, not really. Especially not in a carbine. If we’re talking about a squad marksman rifle (SDM-R or Mk-12) versus a civilian AR-15 then yes, there is a substantial difference.
There are many things that are left out if you're trying to use science to determine a rifles effectiveness on a battlefield. For starters not all battlefields are the same...
It’ll backfire, as soon as you send them AR’s Ukrainian soldiers will just focus on making there own coffee and shirt companies instead of fighting lol
I hate to say it, but no. You move against an experienced Russian fire team with a semi auto rifle that isn't an sr25 or the like, they're gonna bury you next Sunday.
@@grahamlopez3742 there are groups of fighters still using ww1 and 2 weapons in battles a gun is a gun tactics will have to accommodate the types of weapons but still
@@grahamlopez3742 if its just you vs a russian fireteam, an m240 isnt going to help you out. Heres a fact, full auto out of small arms isnt all that usefull out side of cqb. Most (rifle) kills in recent wars have been 100-300 meters. You arent hitting somebody at that distance with automatic on your m4 just spraying. I was taught that full auto is a door kicking thing only, otherwise you are on semi.
The 1/7 and 1/8 twists will do fine with the 55, 62, and 77gr bullets. The 1/9 will do fine with the 55 and 62gr, but you might see poor stabilization with the 77gr. 1/9 is marginal with 77gr. and tends to understabilize it, but you can get lucky depending on other variables with the barrel. The only issue you might see is with 77gr in the 1/9 at longer ranges.
@@puppieslovies Why would you assume my statement is based on assumption? I wholly endorse science and I'm happy to see this experiment, but the interplay of bullet weights and twist rates is fairly common knowledge among shooters. I've owned and shot all of those combinations of bullet weights and twist rates, plus others not used in Ryan's protocol. And so have thousands of other people. A cursory search of the internet will back up those numbers.
@@rhinosaur. unless you've tested and documented it yourself, it is an assumption. Plenty of figures and rules are cited as common knowledge among shooters. Many are true, some are not. People tend to say they've seen a lot of things with their own eyes, when in fact they didn't.
@@puppieslovies That's certainly true, but I have tested this all myself over the years. But you're right that we should not take someone's word for it. This will be a fun experiment and should demonstrate that the only potential problem is 77gr in 1/9 twist. Most quality ARs are 1/7 twist these days and that will handle all bullet weights without a problem. Interestingly, some tests have actually found 1/9 twist works better with the new standard 62gr M855A1 round, but I've never fired any myself.
@@rhinosaur. I'm not saying I don't believe your personal experience, just that it is not as relevant unless you've recorded your data and outlined your methods. We should really strive to publish correct info based on vetted testing so that the misinformation we come across can be combatted
That's funny because we figured out that volume of fire, not caliber or power, was the more determining factor if you know anything about modern warfare but ok
@@Hathur You just gonna pretend that the entire Ar-15 platform hasn’t evolved at all from the sixties? And it doesn’t matter what gun you got, a well trained soldier with a budget trash Ar-15 will out perform an untrained soldier with a perfect rifle every time.
@@spehhhsssmarineer8961 if they made reference to a specific situation, of course they're ignoring the evolution of the ar-15 platform. They only talked about that time, so obviously they weren't factoring in modern weapons. Your question was really stupid.
I am genuinely looking forward to what you find out. in my opinion for what its worth, " having any kind of gun is better than having nothing, especially if you need one".
I cant wait!!! Hard to find educational gun channels out there - a lot of hype and tacticool and know-it-alls, real experience and science is hard to find in the mix.
As long as the parts are durable, the twist rate is appropriate for the ammo, and the barrel is properly heat treated then there's no issue. Parts that meet those requirements are easily obtainable even in large(ish) quantities for a reasonable price.
@@The10thManRules 1/9 twist stabilizes M855/SS109 NATO ammo as well as the newer M855A1. The accuracy with the "sport AR" will be the same or maybe even better than the M4.
As someone who has served in 4 combat theaters, 10 combat deployments, and had more than 100 firefights, I would be happy to deploy with pretty much off-the-shelf AR-15 to use as my personal rifle in combat
I've literally heard fudds say someone won't last long using a store bought AR in combat... another clown said "it's a 22 caliber semi automatic rifle if you take that into combat you'd be a damn fool"
Honestly man? You're one of my top 5 favorite informative RUclipsrs. I know it ain't much seeing I'm one person but it's genuine. At least I can only say it's genuine cause the internet. Anyways I'm a huge fan and honestly I wish I could provide some help to your studies but I work at a T-Mobile and have not much life experience yet. Though keep it up bossman, you are a beacon of hope in a very dark time.
Most ar15s are 1/7 twist and built to mill spec. A lot are 1/8 which is the best twist rate imo, stabilizes anything. Even 1/9 twist will stabilize up to 75g, there's already plenty of testing on this. Almost all 5.56 being used there is 62g anyway which any of those twists will stabilize perfectly. A lot of civilian ar15s are higher quality than some of the stuff in service, DD, BCM, Aero, etc. Only functional difference is that the civilian stuff lacks full auto which shouldn't be used 90% of the time anyway.
The ballistics of an AR and M4/M16 should be the exact same. Actually some civilian ARs should be able to out perform the ballistics of the M16 style rifles because you can get better quality barrels and triggers than the milspec stuff on the civilian market. Primary difference between an M16 style rifle and a civilian AR is the fire control group and the bolt carrier. Also the lower receiver of an AR has been modified so that you can’t drop an auto seer into it. Edit: the only reason the bolt carrier is different in an AR is so that it can’t interact with an auto seer if you have one in the rifle. If you put an M16/M4 bolt in an AR it would still function normally. Basically a civilian AR has been modified from a traditional M16/M4 to make it harder to convert to fully automatic. You were a platoon sergeant in an infantry unit? You should know all this. I’m assuming you are feigning ignorance for your audience so that you can make more content, which is cool.
Yup. A Gucci civilian AR is going to shoot better than a lowest bidder kicked to shit M4 like that isn’t a debate. I guess the only debate would be is if the very limited use of full auto would be worth the worse ergonomics, accuracy, customization, etc
It's to counteract the leftists attempt to bastardize the tern assault rifle. Calling every AR-15 platform rifle an "assault rifle" to scare people. So we call them sporting rifles to make it sound less threatening.
@@TheSpeep no they're not. Assault rifles are fully automatic. But the left took the word and used it to describe any ar platform rifle until every ignorant person believed them. But thanks for the idiotic response. Fucking hand grenades. That's like bringing up Hitler in any argument. Like when people support the second amendment and say civilians are supposed to have weapons on par with modern military and leftists say, "why don't we give everyone a nuke since the military has them"
European sensibility means no serial numbers, no loud noises in urban areas and typically a favorable exchange over USD. Whereas America is full of knuckle-dragging Neanderthals who like loud noises. Just makes it easier for law enforcement to find them
They're getting tens of billions of dollars of our money and you're wanting to send them your old stuff? Of course it's not like our money is going anywhere except into Swiss bank accounts, and all the arms we're sending them are mostly going straight to the black market where they're being purchased by Islamic terrorists who are going to turn around and use them against us, but please, go ahead and make your pointless gesture if it makes you feel better.
“My opinion is not based on facts… and your facts are just your opinion” RUclips comments opinions are mostly worthless, so thank you for providing science so that the gullible ones reading the comment section get to learn actual facts haha
This would be good info to see. I have an AR setup for go to war/home defense, just depends on load I’m shooting. I bought it partly because as a military age male I believe that I should have a weapon that is compatible with the US military because I am a member of the militia, not A militia THE militia.
@@invictusfarmer7188 nope, considering the ammunition available would be completely incompatible with the weapon, even if you started with a full magazine, once that's spent, good luck.
@@invictusfarmer7188 compair the tactics at hand. If he ends up in a battle line his greater relative rate of fire may well be pointless, even putting aside logistical problems. Could someone be more effective with a technological edge? Yes absolutely, but to do so they need some idea of how to use it. Remember the gatling gun was available during the time period but failed to do as it's inventor had hoped.
@@invictusfarmer7188 Logistics wins wars. Once their ammo is spent the weapon is worthless without resupply. Having rifles that requires different cal of rounds cause supply issues.
@@invictusfarmer7188 building IEDs most likely... but yes I was missing the point, it wasn't clear at all to me that was what you were getting at. To be fair I don't think anyone was saying civilian firearms "have no place on the battlefield" just that a civilian firearm isn't McMurder laser doom launcher 5000. As for the Ukraine question, sure shipping out something is better than nothing. However without logistical support it is about as helpful as a full magazine for a arm that does have logistical support.
@@invictusfarmer7188 yes, in the Civil War, with black powder, and the only repeaters were firing undercharged rifle rounds or pistol rounds... until you jammed or damaged your weapon. An AK-47 would be much more advantages in the Civil War because of its simplicity. I could also say a simple hunting rifle would also be very effective in the Civil War, but if you offered me a trip back a hundred a eighty years in time if I would want an AR15 or an M4, I would take the M4 any day. If you want to compare Afghanistan, Syria, or Ukraine to the American Civil War, you are smoking crack... all of those place have ample supplies of real battle rifles, body armor, and better engagement ranges than you would have with an AR15. Basically, I think that the AR15 supremacy will be debunked in the upcoming tests.
You took the feed back and so your gonna make an empirical study to see the validity of yours and other commenters arguements. I like the way you run your channel
AR15s should get you and extra 100+yds vs an equivalent AK barrel length, but the issue is ammo type availability over there. I’d imagine some 68-75 gr 5.56 would be much harder to find in Europe.
You're exactly the type of person that I would feel very comfortable knowing that you know about and might have guns. Crazy gun owners make me nervous.
Oh this is gonna be fuckin awesome! Good luck on the new content brother! There's nothing like good shooting content from a creator that's already got an awesome channel!
Glad VSO stepped up, the ARs aside from fire rate and barrel twist rates and specific ammo difference will do just as well as a comparable M4 as in most cases they're better in every way on the civilian market not having 30 years of damage done to them.
@RyanMcBethProgramming to be honest, yours are the only RUclips shorts that I give a like. Been following you since forever if you got analytics from Bulgaria it might be me. Keep up the good work! P.S.: So if you plan on coming to Eastern Europe you are much welcome and shall be accommodated properly.
Any old iron is more like Gun Jesus. Collectors have more international contacts. Not that crossover events don't happen, but it's an unspoken RUclips rule not to mention other channels on different streams
wow man I gota say I am impressed ...as one of the people who did comment on your other AR video I am very much looking forward to your video response no matter if I am proven right or wrong ... I would like to see how the acc. of a AR compares to a AK even with sub optimal twist
Forgotten Weapons is another good channel for gun stuff, if I'm not mistaken (but, I probably am), he did a video on that (might have been Taofledermaus not Forgotten Weapons)
If they are going to retake an entrenched Russian position by direct assault, they will definitely need actual assault rifles designed for that one job of wiping out an enemy position.
@@johndododoe1411 Agreed. Its like switching out the engine in a fast Race Car, putting in a 4 Cylinder engine. The car will appear the same from the outside in most cases, however its performance will be drastically hindered. It will still move and get you where you are going(equivalent to ability to shoot) but if you want to compete with other race cars, you will lose every time. You need the Fast Engine in the racecar to compete. In gun terms, fully automatic ACTUAL Assault Rifles are the equivalent to Race Cars cars in this scenario.
I think it would make obviously a good battle implement- If you do testing though to compare it make sure you’re firing .223 to get the best results as technically that is the civilian round to match it. If recommend (If you have access to it) comparing a 5.56 upper to the AR and M4 to, just to see if well. A different upper could bring an AR to comparable standards. Biggest different I could see is just the CQB element of it all, M4 is a bit more compact and though burst isn’t used often, for close quarters battle it could be a lot more useful and handy than straight semi. Love Your content fam!
My brother owns a custom gun holster company out of St. George Utah and would be more than happy to send you some holsters for your pistols. He can also make magazine holders ect too and that's what I use for my own open and concealed carry depending on where I am, and what the laws are.
I was in a range in Afghanistan in 2008/9 and there was a Toyota Corolla on a hill side about 400 meters out. I managed to put a round with my M-4 through a side window, the round made it through but not out the other side. You loose a lot of omph after 300 meters regardless of twist. Looking forward to your test and the data it provides.
Civilian rifles are current tech standards whereas most field rifles are 20-30 year old base platforms with very little changes. The other big differences are in the fact that one industry (military caters to full auto, and the other caters to semi auto only.
The VSO Gun Channel can be found here:
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The testing plan can be found here:
www.ryanmcbeth.com/single-post/does-5-56-twist-rate-effect-accuracy
Connect with me on Twitter:
@ryanmcbeth
Watch my long form videos:
ruclips.net/p/PLt670_P7pOGmLWZG78JlM-rG2ZrpPziOy
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discord.gg/pKuGDHZHrz
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Ryan McBeth Productions LLC
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USA
Completely miss the point. Note not a political comment.
In any type of situation having something to defend your self with is better than not having anything at all.
An Ar might not be up to level as other military grade weapons but it sure will help you put a fight against the enemy.
The same can be said if a foreign nation decided to attack the mainland USA citizens will have a better change at defending their land with an Ar15 than their bare hands.
@@reyesproduc The AR-15/military grade. The original testing by Armalite pretty cool stuff. Starting with AR-15.
The AR-15 reminds me of Jersey high schools in the 90’s. I gotta mustang.. oh me 2.
Live in the city? I hope you don’t use that bike on those streets, I think my cousin would get mad if she found out.
Love your channel. Please read the policy guidelines for RUclips. They will demonitize or block your channel. I don't want to see that happen.
I once heard that a list of weapons of ordinary infantryman in relation to their effectiveness from best to the ones you can ignore looks like this:
1)radio;
2)map;
3)binoculars;
4)entrenching tool;
5)anything else.
So I guess it and other small arms nowadays are at least useful to scare away other poor infantrymen and to look imposing to civilians?
“A lot of people gave their opinion… so I’m going to give my math and science…” and that’s why I watch your videos.
Why clap back with antidotal evidence when you could release a full on science paper declaring how right you are
Me too
@@johnbarker2650 I'm guessing that actual math and science would say that 3 rounds is insufficient to give meaningful precision.
@@Dudemon-1 I don't know what half those words mean
Hell yeah!! Perfect response!!!!
I'm in Ukrainian army. Use M4A1 twist 1/7
Before i used my AR-15 1/8 twist
Most of rounds that i have 62 grain
As i know, best twist for this is 1/8
But main issue why i changed my AR to M4 is barrel thickness and more solid handguard rail.
Maybe it's not only about twist.
Main issue now is artillery (russians have a lot) and "eyes". Small firearms not main problem in most cases.
Small firearms not main problem.
God bless you & Slava Ukraini
Володя, у вас хватает 5.56? Все переходят на натовский калибр или большенство предпочитают 74ки?
Я родился в Ленинграде, уехал в США ещё в 89ом, в детстве. Американец по гражданству. Здесь служил в ВВС. Но мамины все были из Украины: Дед из Мариуполя, бабушка из Нежина. Вся семья деда похоронена в Ахробазе. На папиной, дед из Минска, а бабушка из Суража (Брянская обл.) Все всегда одинаково жили, как одни.
Мои детские каникулы были проведены в Харькове и Чернигове. Меня всё это убивает в душе. Чем мы можем больше помочь?
Anything you can bolt on a M4 , you can bolt on a semi automatic only model… barrels, handguards , optics.
I build service model clone rifles… with FN contract barrels and knights Armament railed handguards , ACOG 4x optics…. There is no practical difference except no burst or full auto. The FRT-15 trigger does a pretty good impression though, and commercial binary triggers pretty much equal a military gun with 2 shot burst. Out at distance, semiautomatic is used by most soldiers. Even a Thompson submachinegun was used alot more on semiautomatic than most realized… you couldn’t carry enough of that heavy .45acp to spray everything in sight, your seven 30 rd mags would be empty pretty quick, if you were stupid.
@@p99guy Yes. You can bolt on anything. No. They’re not exactly as accurate as military versions. They’re also not as durable.
Does that really matter? Does it make a difference in how it would be fielded in Ukraine? No, not really. Especially not in a carbine.
If we’re talking about a squad marksman rifle (SDM-R or Mk-12) versus a civilian AR-15 then yes, there is a substantial difference.
@@robotorch Героям Слава!
Finally, someone giving us math and science who actually understands math and science.😃
This is why I love this guy, not some stupid twerp talking pure shit.
2+2 = it'll work because I said so. What'd you mean, that's good math and science. Lol
@@kookyle that is a horribly constructed hypothesis
Paul Harrell has a channel that is super interesting. if youre interested in shooting.
There are many things that are left out if you're trying to use science to determine a rifles effectiveness on a battlefield. For starters not all battlefields are the same...
Very much looking forward to this!! Come on down.
It’ll backfire, as soon as you send them AR’s Ukrainian soldiers will just focus on making there own coffee and shirt companies instead of fighting lol
Funny.
So let's send them to Russia instead
Lol
Fuck BRCC though
@@RyanMcBethProgramming , No it's not.
This sounds pretty cool dude. Interested to see!
Thanks for being so transparent, it’s refreshing to see
This is absolutely elite level content creation 👌
Any firearm will be good enough for the battlefield if that's all you have.
I hate to say it, but no. You move against an experienced Russian fire team with a semi auto rifle that isn't an sr25 or the like, they're gonna bury you next Sunday.
@@grahamlopez3742 or you can go empty handed and last even less.
@@grahamlopez3742 so you're saying if all I have is a Palmetto State Armory AR-15 I should either run or just give up??? Got it..
@@grahamlopez3742 there are groups of fighters still using ww1 and 2 weapons in battles a gun is a gun tactics will have to accommodate the types of weapons but still
@@grahamlopez3742 if its just you vs a russian fireteam, an m240 isnt going to help you out. Heres a fact, full auto out of small arms isnt all that usefull out side of cqb. Most (rifle) kills in recent wars have been 100-300 meters. You arent hitting somebody at that distance with automatic on your m4 just spraying. I was taught that full auto is a door kicking thing only, otherwise you are on semi.
The 1/7 and 1/8 twists will do fine with the 55, 62, and 77gr bullets. The 1/9 will do fine with the 55 and 62gr, but you might see poor stabilization with the 77gr. 1/9 is marginal with 77gr. and tends to understabilize it, but you can get lucky depending on other variables with the barrel.
The only issue you might see is with 77gr in the 1/9 at longer ranges.
It's good to have an idea, but the point of doing science is to confirm exactly what will happen instead of relying on assumptions
@@puppieslovies Why would you assume my statement is based on assumption? I wholly endorse science and I'm happy to see this experiment, but the interplay of bullet weights and twist rates is fairly common knowledge among shooters. I've owned and shot all of those combinations of bullet weights and twist rates, plus others not used in Ryan's protocol. And so have thousands of other people. A cursory search of the internet will back up those numbers.
@@rhinosaur. unless you've tested and documented it yourself, it is an assumption.
Plenty of figures and rules are cited as common knowledge among shooters. Many are true, some are not. People tend to say they've seen a lot of things with their own eyes, when in fact they didn't.
@@puppieslovies That's certainly true, but I have tested this all myself over the years. But you're right that we should not take someone's word for it. This will be a fun experiment and should demonstrate that the only potential problem is 77gr in 1/9 twist. Most quality ARs are 1/7 twist these days and that will handle all bullet weights without a problem. Interestingly, some tests have actually found 1/9 twist works better with the new standard 62gr M855A1 round, but I've never fired any myself.
@@rhinosaur. I'm not saying I don't believe your personal experience, just that it is not as relevant unless you've recorded your data and outlined your methods.
We should really strive to publish correct info based on vetted testing so that the misinformation we come across can be combatted
Throws lead down range it’s doing something.
Not, that's not enough in war...
That's funny because we figured out that volume of fire, not caliber or power, was the more determining factor if you know anything about modern warfare but ok
@@Hathur m16s only jammed because of the myth that they were alien tech and didnt need to be cleaned.
@@Hathur You just gonna pretend that the entire Ar-15 platform hasn’t evolved at all from the sixties? And it doesn’t matter what gun you got, a well trained soldier with a budget trash Ar-15 will out perform an untrained soldier with a perfect rifle every time.
@@spehhhsssmarineer8961 if they made reference to a specific situation, of course they're ignoring the evolution of the ar-15 platform. They only talked about that time, so obviously they weren't factoring in modern weapons. Your question was really stupid.
I am genuinely looking forward to what you find out. in my opinion for what its worth, " having any kind of gun is better than having nothing, especially if you need one".
Ryan: Trade Offer, you give me opinion, I give you a pdf with the procedures for my scientific testing of the subject.
I hope you get sponsored that would be sick
Looking forward to the testing protocol so I can reproduce it at home. Can't wait
😆😆😆
The ability to make the weapon have the ability to go full automatic that would be the case.
I cant wait!!! Hard to find educational gun channels out there - a lot of hype and tacticool and know-it-alls, real experience and science is hard to find in the mix.
Huge Respect for what you have done for the Ukrainians...
I think this is a great idea, and why your channel is quality and one that should get even more attention thanks Ryan.
Awesome , I always enjoy what you have to say on issues , goodwork 🐨🇦🇺
This is an example a reasons why I consider myself lucky to know of your Channel.
Thank you.
Thanks for always being awesome
I'm looking forward to this one. Love the hat at the end 🍺
You’re a different kind of content creator and I think it’s super refreshing. Keep it up bud
Yeah technically military grade weapons means just good enough for military use doesn’t mean the best
Good show Ryan! Thank you for taking another look at your opinion on the AR-15 platform, I know you will be pleasantly surprised by your findings. :)
As long as the parts are durable, the twist rate is appropriate for the ammo, and the barrel is properly heat treated then there's no issue. Parts that meet those requirements are easily obtainable even in large(ish) quantities for a reasonable price.
Saying a 16" 1:9 "sport" AR15 represents all civilian AR15s, is like saying a Big Mac represents all hamburgers.
A 16in 1:9 sport AR will give you the exact same use in combat as an FN or Colt M4
@@fujimi715 Exact same? Then twist rate means nothing, correct.
@@The10thManRules 1/9 twist stabilizes M855/SS109 NATO ammo as well as the newer M855A1. The accuracy with the "sport AR" will be the same or maybe even better than the M4.
I can't wait to see this video!!! And I'm really enjoying your content! Thanks for what you do!
Didn't you know? It can destroy tanks, I have to keep mine in a cage otherwise it'll kill by itself
As someone who has served in 4 combat theaters, 10 combat deployments, and had more than 100 firefights, I would be happy to deploy with pretty much off-the-shelf AR-15 to use as my personal rifle in combat
I've literally heard fudds say someone won't last long using a store bought AR in combat... another clown said "it's a 22 caliber semi automatic rifle if you take that into combat you'd be a damn fool"
In other words, you'll be going on a paid vacation 😉 Have fun!
Real talk, ammo is expensive, and so are his guns. And VSO just invited him along to shoot his top of the line "civilian spec" stuff on an open range.
Honestly man? You're one of my top 5 favorite informative RUclipsrs. I know it ain't much seeing I'm one person but it's genuine. At least I can only say it's genuine cause the internet. Anyways I'm a huge fan and honestly I wish I could provide some help to your studies but I work at a T-Mobile and have not much life experience yet. Though keep it up bossman, you are a beacon of hope in a very dark time.
Any rifle is better than no rifle
Not if it explodes in you hands
Glad to hear your guna test this.
Spoiler alert: yes, all but the most subpar civilian AR-15s are functionally equivalent for everything apart from full-auto fire.
Most ar15s are 1/7 twist and built to mill spec. A lot are 1/8 which is the best twist rate imo, stabilizes anything. Even 1/9 twist will stabilize up to 75g, there's already plenty of testing on this. Almost all 5.56 being used there is 62g anyway which any of those twists will stabilize perfectly. A lot of civilian ar15s are higher quality than some of the stuff in service, DD, BCM, Aero, etc. Only functional difference is that the civilian stuff lacks full auto which shouldn't be used 90% of the time anyway.
The ballistics of an AR and M4/M16 should be the exact same. Actually some civilian ARs should be able to out perform the ballistics of the M16 style rifles because you can get better quality barrels and triggers than the milspec stuff on the civilian market.
Primary difference between an M16 style rifle and a civilian AR is the fire control group and the bolt carrier. Also the lower receiver of an AR has been modified so that you can’t drop an auto seer into it.
Edit: the only reason the bolt carrier is different in an AR is so that it can’t interact with an auto seer if you have one in the rifle. If you put an M16/M4 bolt in an AR it would still function normally. Basically a civilian AR has been modified from a traditional M16/M4 to make it harder to convert to fully automatic.
You were a platoon sergeant in an infantry unit? You should know all this. I’m assuming you are feigning ignorance for your audience so that you can make more content, which is cool.
Yup. A Gucci civilian AR is going to shoot better than a lowest bidder kicked to shit M4 like that isn’t a debate. I guess the only debate would be is if the very limited use of full auto would be worth the worse ergonomics, accuracy, customization, etc
Think he was a 11c not 11b
I really appreciate your approach in your videos and look forward to your new project.
When I hear "sporting rifle" I think of something running on air pressure... guess thats just me being European...
It's to counteract the leftists attempt to bastardize the tern assault rifle. Calling every AR-15 platform rifle an "assault rifle" to scare people. So we call them sporting rifles to make it sound less threatening.
@@wheelsndealz They are assault rifles tho... Whats next, are hand grenades gonna become "party poppers" now?
@@TheSpeep no they're not. Assault rifles are fully automatic. But the left took the word and used it to describe any ar platform rifle until every ignorant person believed them. But thanks for the idiotic response. Fucking hand grenades. That's like bringing up Hitler in any argument. Like when people support the second amendment and say civilians are supposed to have weapons on par with modern military and leftists say, "why don't we give everyone a nuke since the military has them"
European sensibility means no serial numbers, no loud noises in urban areas and typically a favorable exchange over USD. Whereas America is full of knuckle-dragging Neanderthals who like loud noises. Just makes it easier for law enforcement to find them
I cringe when I hear that term. It's a rifle the purpose changes depending on who holding it.
VSO did a solid test with Tod's Workshop to test arrows versus firearm effectiveness on sandbags. Looking forward to this 👍
I’m retired and have a vest And plate carrier I no longer need. You got anywhere I could pass this off to Ukrainian forces?
They're getting tens of billions of dollars of our money and you're wanting to send them your old stuff? Of course it's not like our money is going anywhere except into Swiss bank accounts, and all the arms we're sending them are mostly going straight to the black market where they're being purchased by Islamic terrorists who are going to turn around and use them against us, but please, go ahead and make your pointless gesture if it makes you feel better.
@@slappy8941 you feel better now?
@@cameroncrider6970 what’d they say? Comment is in the abyss now
I support Ukraine, I will take it to my house in the US.
How about you sell it? Make some money for yourself considering how bad things are getting
VSO and AK Guy/Brandon Herrera are some of the best spots to learn about firearm.
JSB is the only game in town when you're in South Carolina
“My opinion is not based on facts… and your facts are just your opinion”
RUclips comments opinions are mostly worthless, so thank you for providing science so that the gullible ones reading the comment section get to learn actual facts haha
The world needs more Ryan Mcbeths
This would be good info to see. I have an AR setup for go to war/home defense, just depends on load I’m shooting. I bought it partly because as a military age male I believe that I should have a weapon that is compatible with the US military because I am a member of the militia, not A militia THE militia.
You are very smart and a nice presenter. Hope your channel keeps growing.
Love it, can't wait for this. The myth that the "assault rifle" 15 is a fully battle rifle needs to be debunked
@@invictusfarmer7188 nope, considering the ammunition available would be completely incompatible with the weapon, even if you started with a full magazine, once that's spent, good luck.
@@invictusfarmer7188 compair the tactics at hand. If he ends up in a battle line his greater relative rate of fire may well be pointless, even putting aside logistical problems.
Could someone be more effective with a technological edge? Yes absolutely, but to do so they need some idea of how to use it. Remember the gatling gun was available during the time period but failed to do as it's inventor had hoped.
@@invictusfarmer7188 Logistics wins wars. Once their ammo is spent the weapon is worthless without resupply. Having rifles that requires different cal of rounds cause supply issues.
@@invictusfarmer7188 building IEDs most likely... but yes I was missing the point, it wasn't clear at all to me that was what you were getting at. To be fair I don't think anyone was saying civilian firearms "have no place on the battlefield" just that a civilian firearm isn't McMurder laser doom launcher 5000. As for the Ukraine question, sure shipping out something is better than nothing. However without logistical support it is about as helpful as a full magazine for a arm that does have logistical support.
@@invictusfarmer7188 yes, in the Civil War, with black powder, and the only repeaters were firing undercharged rifle rounds or pistol rounds... until you jammed or damaged your weapon. An AK-47 would be much more advantages in the Civil War because of its simplicity. I could also say a simple hunting rifle would also be very effective in the Civil War, but if you offered me a trip back a hundred a eighty years in time if I would want an AR15 or an M4, I would take the M4 any day. If you want to compare Afghanistan, Syria, or Ukraine to the American Civil War, you are smoking crack... all of those place have ample supplies of real battle rifles, body armor, and better engagement ranges than you would have with an AR15. Basically, I think that the AR15 supremacy will be debunked in the upcoming tests.
It's pretty simple. If it can put lead down range then it's a useful battlefield rifle. An adequate rifle is better than no rifle in a war.
You took the feed back and so your gonna make an empirical study to see the validity of yours and other commenters arguements. I like the way you run your channel
Curt is one of the few channels that apply science and is entertaining to watch. Great guy.
Great content sir! Thank you.
Good to hear Kurt's gonna sort you out.
Ryan is leveling up daily. Try and keep up folks
Never guessed the Red River Shootout would take its game on the road. I Love transparency, but holy hell!
This is a VERY good idea. I'm looking forward to seeing what the results are
AR15s should get you and extra 100+yds vs an equivalent AK barrel length, but the issue is ammo type availability over there. I’d imagine some 68-75 gr 5.56 would be much harder to find in Europe.
They're using old school ww1 weapons and random mounted guns on civilian vehicles.
I don't think twist rate of a rifle is an issue there.
You are now my favorite!!! Thank you
Haha, the lid at the end to cap 🧢 off the video. The right kinda of soldier.
You're exactly the type of person that I would feel very comfortable knowing that you know about and might have guns. Crazy gun owners make me nervous.
Trust me, as a gun owner. Crazy gun owners make us nervous too...
Oh this is gonna be fuckin awesome! Good luck on the new content brother! There's nothing like good shooting content from a creator that's already got an awesome channel!
Glad VSO stepped up, the ARs aside from fire rate and barrel twist rates and specific ammo difference will do just as well as a comparable M4 as in most cases they're better in every way on the civilian market not having 30 years of damage done to them.
Hell yeah bro. The two things I love most. Guns and science
@RyanMcBethProgramming to be honest, yours are the only RUclips shorts that I give a like. Been following you since forever if you got analytics from Bulgaria it might be me. Keep up the good work!
P.S.: So if you plan on coming to Eastern Europe you are much welcome and shall be accommodated properly.
@garandthumb would be a great partner in science because, well, science!
Any old iron is more like Gun Jesus. Collectors have more international contacts. Not that crossover events don't happen, but it's an unspoken RUclips rule not to mention other channels on different streams
This is awesome!! The scientific method at it's finest. This why your channel is awesome.
Military grade literally means "the cheapest option that works"
People think a military grade M4 or M16 is ready for war but a store bought AR will fall apart and get you killed.
Excellent videos. Science and math...perfect!
This is a great video idea. Can’t wait to see the data
This will be give some really interesting data. Great idea Ryan & Vso
I’m stoked about this.
You know sir, I have grown to have a lot of respect for you. You keep it real.
Looking forward to this. Love your channel and VSO.
wow man I gota say I am impressed ...as one of the people who did comment on your other AR video I am very much looking forward to your video response no matter if I am proven right or wrong ... I would like to see how the acc. of a AR compares to a AK even with sub optimal twist
I will definitely be watching that thank you
Forgotten Weapons is another good channel for gun stuff, if I'm not mistaken (but, I probably am), he did a video on that (might have been Taofledermaus not Forgotten Weapons)
Great Channel for debunking the SBR myth. Steel always rings true
Love the hat as I'm from Dublin love the channel
This will be awesome. Can't wait
Thank you for not calling them Assault Rifles. My man.
If they are going to retake an entrenched Russian position by direct assault, they will definitely need actual assault rifles designed for that one job of wiping out an enemy position.
@@johndododoe1411 Agreed. Its like switching out the engine in a fast Race Car, putting in a 4 Cylinder engine. The car will appear the same from the outside in most cases, however its performance will be drastically hindered. It will still move and get you where you are going(equivalent to ability to shoot) but if you want to compete with other race cars, you will lose every time. You need the Fast Engine in the racecar to compete. In gun terms, fully automatic ACTUAL Assault Rifles are the equivalent to Race Cars cars in this scenario.
I love videos about weapons and military arms and firearms
I think it would make obviously a good battle implement- If you do testing though to compare it make sure you’re firing .223 to get the best results as technically that is the civilian round to match it.
If recommend (If you have access to it) comparing a 5.56 upper to the AR and M4 to, just to see if well. A different upper could bring an AR to comparable standards. Biggest different I could see is just the CQB element of it all, M4 is a bit more compact and though burst isn’t used often, for close quarters battle it could be a lot more useful and handy than straight semi. Love
Your content fam!
My brother owns a custom gun holster company out of St. George Utah and would be more than happy to send you some holsters for your pistols.
He can also make magazine holders ect too and that's what I use for my own open and concealed carry depending on where I am, and what the laws are.
Looking forward to seeing this!
Well. That earned my subscription
I was in a range in Afghanistan in 2008/9 and there was a Toyota Corolla on a hill side about 400 meters out. I managed to put a round with my M-4 through a side window, the round made it through but not out the other side. You loose a lot of omph after 300 meters regardless of twist. Looking forward to your test and the data it provides.
Logic, math, science! Thank you for being a light in the world 💜
This is a great channel.
I’m going to print the pdf and give it a go myself. Thank you for the file.
So interested in this looking forward to the data and videos 🙌
I hope you get tons of free gear and guns man, you've been doing some really good work.
This is going to a be a very variable question, and it boils down to 'depends on the opposition'.
This is awesome and honestly pretty cool!
Specter gear is made in 🇺🇸 and they have a wide variety of pouches/slings. I don’t work for them, but I have some of their stuff.
Plz I need this video!!! Can’t wait!!!
Civilian rifles are current tech standards whereas most field rifles are 20-30 year old base platforms with very little changes. The other big differences are in the fact that one industry (military caters to full auto, and the other caters to semi auto only.
Well this is it, this is the video that made me* subscribe.
Thank you for upholding science.
In the age of feelings
Love this guy. Entertaining and smart as hell... looks like he just fell out of bed, but can't judge a book...
i can't wait to see the complete video
Man i think you are a really nice guy. Stay that way.