Conflicting Creations in Genesis - Bible & Archaeology

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  • Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024

Комментарии • 76

  • @TupacMakaveli1996
    @TupacMakaveli1996 2 месяца назад +2

    More people need to listen to this, especially the religious folks. I'm always learning something new from these videos.

    • @jarcarl1
      @jarcarl1 Месяц назад

      @@TupacMakaveli1996 I agree. But the whole “faith” doctrine people adhere to makes their skull really thick. It’s frustrating trying to teach people that they can actually decide for themselves and not go to “hell”. I wish I knew how to get rid of their goals of living for afterlife promises.

  • @karenspivey3203
    @karenspivey3203 2 месяца назад +3

    Excellent! We learned about that 3rd creation account in theology class!

  • @constpegasus
    @constpegasus 2 месяца назад +1

    One of the most powerful episodes yet.

  • @scienceexplains302
    @scienceexplains302 2 месяца назад +2

    Different causes
    Different order
    Different number of gods (at least sometimes)
    Different label for the god(s)
    Different beginning for women
    Different method of creating/forming

  • @louisnemzer6801
    @louisnemzer6801 2 месяца назад

    Great video. It shows the importance of reading the text in the original language, and letting it speak for itself, without imposing our later preconceived notions of what we think it should say based on current theological desires, or attempting to harmonize conflicting passages

  • @williamwatson4354
    @williamwatson4354 2 месяца назад +1

    Just discovered your channel. You mentioned Dan and Francesca and that's good enough for me. Consider me subscribed.

  • @rickykngo
    @rickykngo 2 месяца назад

    Please give me passaged of the two creation.

  • @pappapiccolino9572
    @pappapiccolino9572 2 месяца назад

    Great presentation as always gents. I look forward to these videos. Not sold on the penis bone idea. I can't see how ancient people, with limited science, would know such a thing. Dr Joel Baden gives a better explanation IMO. He talks about how ancient people knew that in order to reproduce, you needed two humans, two animals etc. But from the world around them, they also knew that if you wanted a new plant, you take a clipping from an existing plant. So if you start one creation account with only a single human, you get a second human by taking a "clipping" from the first one. And the rib is the clipping. In my layperson's opinion, total genius (both Dr Baden and the authors of Genesis).

  • @missinglink_eth
    @missinglink_eth 2 месяца назад

    Using your pinnacle argument for genesis 2, wouldn’t marriage between a man and a woman, so that procreation could happen, be that pinnacle?

  • @papa_son3233
    @papa_son3233 Месяц назад

    Genesis 2 is incorrect, genesis 1 is the updated and the corrected version.😮

  • @NotMyGumDropButtons.444
    @NotMyGumDropButtons.444 2 месяца назад

    Where is my “bring back watery chaos” merch?

  • @kimbronun6649
    @kimbronun6649 2 месяца назад +1

    If the kingdom where God resides is within us, this being biblical, doesnt this stand to reason that God since the very beginning has been taking all the sins of mankind?
    Curious...

    • @Texasmade74
      @Texasmade74 2 месяца назад +1

      None of what you said makes sense and how does this have anything to do with the two creation accounts in genesis?

    • @Texasmade74
      @Texasmade74 2 месяца назад +1

      Jesus is not Yhwh and you're doing what most Christians do which is try to make Jesus as God or fit Jesus into the Hebrew bible which he never was

  • @MalleusMaleficarumLv
    @MalleusMaleficarumLv Месяц назад

    Sorry to be so blunt. When God Created Adam, was he man? With gen........like man ? If so....taking a partner from the animal world would not make sense.

  • @yeshuaisjoshua
    @yeshuaisjoshua 2 месяца назад +1

    The Hebrew Bible is historical fiction, yhwh is a fictional character.

    • @BuceriasRodHardy
      @BuceriasRodHardy 2 месяца назад

      So is the New Testament.

    • @yeshuaisjoshua
      @yeshuaisjoshua 2 месяца назад

      @BuceriasRodHardy
      The New Testament and the Quran is irrelevant.

  • @godotwaiter146
    @godotwaiter146 2 месяца назад

    I don’t understand why people die on this hill, not accepting the two separate accounts that contradict. They both teach the same thing: God did it.

    • @Texasmade74
      @Texasmade74 2 месяца назад +4

      They definitely do not

    • @Texasmade74
      @Texasmade74 2 месяца назад +1

      One says God says, "Let us make man in our image," a straight-up reference to the divine council and the other one doesn't. I'm not a monotheist at all

    • @godotwaiter146
      @godotwaiter146 2 месяца назад

      @@Texasmade74 Contradict or teach the same thing?

    • @godotwaiter146
      @godotwaiter146 2 месяца назад +1

      I misunderstood you. Sorry.

    • @Texasmade74
      @Texasmade74 2 месяца назад

      @@godotwaiter146 both

  • @scienceexplains302
    @scienceexplains302 2 месяца назад

    *Parade of animals*
    Imagine thinking that he presented a lion as a potential partner, and when Adam says “No, I don’t want it be shredded,” also present a tiger. Yahweh seems to be a moron.
    Also, this is very sexist, as if Eve was was barely (pun enjoyed) any different from other animals.

  • @tbishop4961
    @tbishop4961 2 месяца назад

    There was no "royal we" going on🥴😂

  • @Azupiru
    @Azupiru 2 месяца назад +1

    καὶ ἰδοὺ ἓξ ἄνδρες ἤρχοντο ἀπὸ τῆς ὁδοῦ τῆς πύλης τῆς ὑψηλῆς τῆς βλεπούσης πρὸς βορρᾶν καὶ ἑκάστου πέλυξ ἐν τῇ χειρὶ αὐτοῦ καὶ εἷς ἀνὴρ ἐν μέσῳ αὐτῶν ἐνδεδυκὼς ποδήρη καὶ ζώνη σαπφείρου ἐπὶ τῆς ὀσφύος αὐτοῦ καὶ εἰσήλθοσαν καὶ ἔστησαν ἐχόμενοι τοῦ θυσιαστηρίου τοῦ χαλκοῦ
    as compared to:
    וְהִנֵּה שִׁשָּׁה אֲנָשִׁים בָּאִים מִדֶּרֶךְ־שַׁעַר הָעֶלְיוֹן אֲשֶׁר מָפְנֶה צָפוֹנָה וְאִישׁ כְּלִי מַפָּצוֹ בְּיָדוֹ וְאִישׁ־אֶחָד בְּתוֹכָם לָבֻשׁ בַּדִּים וְקֶסֶת הַסֹּפֵר בְּמָתְנָיו וַיָּבֹאוּ וַיַּעַמְדוּ אֵצֶל מִזְבַּח הַנְּחֹשֶׁת׃
    A writer's inkhorn is not a belt of sapphire, but it seems that whoever translated this was more concerned with making an association between the Hebrew root for books, scrolls, writers, etc. and Sapphire.
    Right?

    • @xkv8r
      @xkv8r  2 месяца назад +1

      Good question, really long possible answer that I will try and keep short. First thing we have to deal with is the word קסת which (based on my quick searching of the text so open to corrections) only appears 3 times and all of those are in Ezekiel (9:2-3, 11). You included the definition "inkhorn," HALOT provides the more general "scribe's equipment, scribe's palette." Given the rarity of the word and the tight distributions of its use, giving a good/robust definition is hard to do. While it is certainly possible that the hand(s) responsible for the Greek translation chose to make a change in association when they translated the phrase קסת הספר, "writing case," as ζώνη σαπφείρου, "sapphire belt," they could also have just been confused about what to do with the word קסת as they use ζώνη for each appearance. The other wrinkle to deal with in this is how הספר becomes σαπφείρου. This one may be understandable as a mishearing or misreading of the text as ספר is very close to ספיר, "sapphire, lapis lazuli." An additional thing worth noting is that ספיר does appear two other places in Ezekiel (1:26, 10:1) where it is correctly translated in the Greek. Long-winded answer to say could they have done it iintentionally? Possibly. But I am inclined here to think the change from קסת הספר to ζώνη σαπφείρου may have just been the result of confusion/mishearing/etc. If I was to propose a hypothetical situation/explanation it would be this: maybe the scribe(s) heard/saw a word they didn't know what to do with (קסת) and heard/saw a word they thought they was sapphire (ספר, sapphire being ספיר) and then based on the immediate context of the passage (describing a "man clothed in linen" 9:2) they made a guess and chose another garment word (ζώνη) to go with the previous garment language. I would be interested to see what others have argued about this. -JJ

    • @Azupiru
      @Azupiru 2 месяца назад

      @@xkv8r The Peshitta verse is interesting, as it translates to sapphire as well. It seems like the corruption must have taken place with the scribe who translated from the Hebrew. It can't be just a mistranslation from the Hebrew to the Greek, as the Hebrew "messaging motif" was almost certainly derived from the Poem of Erra.

    • @xkv8r
      @xkv8r  2 месяца назад +1

      You're right, the messaging motif is certainly an important part of this. It feels like a spot where overlapping interests could be at play as we have not just the messaging concern, but the connection with sapphire and the divine realm (Ex 24:10, also seen in 1 Enoch 18:8 and Tob 13:16), and connections with sapphire and clothing (the high priest's ephod in Ex 28:18, 39:11). I think you are on to an interesting question here. -JJ

    • @Azupiru
      @Azupiru 2 месяца назад

      @@xkv8r I also think it's interesting that שפל occurs eight times in Ezekiel and the same root occurs 5 times in the Poem of Erra. The discussion of the high trees brought low and the low tree made high also has a parallel in Erra , where the Mes tree is removed from its place. Interesting, this Mes tree is associated with another word that is only in Ezekiel, the word for 'electrum/amber.' The connections between Erra and Ezekiel have been known for a long time, but I do find it interesting that it ultimately resulted in an extra sapphire in the Septuagint, which the scribes must have known. There were scribes alive at the time of the writing of the Christian canon who could read Old Syriac, Hebrew, and Cuneiform. It would be weird if their scholarly community didn't know these things.

  • @codyhughes3859
    @codyhughes3859 3 дня назад

    Let’s talk about how an all knowing all seeing divine plan god doesn’t know Adam doesn’t want to have sex with animals but needs a woman

  • @missinglink_eth
    @missinglink_eth 2 месяца назад +1

    You should read Heiser on imagers.

    • @Texasmade74
      @Texasmade74 2 месяца назад

      His work is bad due to the fact he was an evangelical conservative Christian whose work often reflected his Christian beliefs it didn't have any real academic value whatsoever and many scholars don't take his opinions seriously

    • @missinglink_eth
      @missinglink_eth 2 месяца назад +2

      @@Texasmade74 “because he was a Christian and his work was biased” sounds just as bad as “biblical scholarship from a non-Christian is useless because they don’t consider the Bible to be inerrant” like an evangelical would say. Everyone has biases. Understanding a scholars background and biases will help you understand their POV. Many would say Heiser just aggregated secular resources together that most evangelicals were too afraid to read. Some of the comments made by Bob in this video were quite good. Other laughable. You can see his biases quite clearly too. But I wouldn’t say he is a bad scholar.

    • @Texasmade74
      @Texasmade74 2 месяца назад

      @missinglink_eth you know I could post a few papers on why his scholarship wasn't respected or taken seriously but you here are talking about Bob's bias whatever it is supposedly or that everyone has bias which completely missed my point

    • @Texasmade74
      @Texasmade74 2 месяца назад

      @missinglink_eth he definitely was a scholar but absolutely evangelical and he even went against the fact that Israelite religion is rooted in Canaanite religion

    • @missinglink_eth
      @missinglink_eth 2 месяца назад +1

      @@Texasmade74 I’d happily read articles if you post them.

  • @tbishop4961
    @tbishop4961 2 месяца назад

    22:26 this is NOT the word used in either verse😂 honestly I can't even figure out what word he's trying to say

    • @xkv8r
      @xkv8r  2 месяца назад

      Bob is using the Hebrew word צלם (tselem) which typically gets translated as "image" in verses 26 and 27.

    • @tbishop4961
      @tbishop4961 2 месяца назад

      @@xkv8r I see. His pronunciation is difficult to hear

    • @tbishop4961
      @tbishop4961 2 месяца назад

      @@xkv8r however, this is not the word used in the 10 commandments (ex 20 version)

    • @Texasmade74
      @Texasmade74 2 месяца назад

      @@tbishop4961 it really is and you know more than a scholar?

    • @tbishop4961
      @tbishop4961 2 месяца назад

      @@Texasmade74 neither of these people are hebrew scholars🥴

  • @henryschmit3340
    @henryschmit3340 2 месяца назад

    There is no conflict. Genesis 1 is the big picture of creation, and Genesis 2 is a detailed portion of the Genesis 1 big picture.

  • @revkev007
    @revkev007 2 месяца назад

    ‘Let us make man in our image” refers to Christ’s part in creation. Both Colossians 1:16 and John 1:3 state that all things, including creation were made by Jesus Christ. Jesus is the God who created the heavens and the earth (Gen. 1:1).

  • @quetzelmichaels1637
    @quetzelmichaels1637 2 месяца назад

    Vegetation was created before the sun and moon. You're broccoli. In the beginning, the world was a wasteland. Darkness covered the kingdom of the Abyss. The people were formless, without structure, empty, and void of understanding, having become corrupted. He found you in that wasteland and shielded you as the apple of his eye.
    Without Christ, nothing was created. With Christ, the plan of salvation began. To 'strike at' the heel or head also means to admire. Adam, the Christ, who was not deceived, chose to wield the fiery sword on the day of vengeance as judgment; setting up the abomination of desolation in himself; as the temple without one stone left standing upon another and becoming a worm.
    Lilith, Adam's wife, then settled Adam, Eve, and the Snake, east of Eden until the day Adam wields the fiery sword. Like Sarah giving Hager to Abraham, Lilith gave Eve to Adam when he began his work.
    The waters that you saw... represent large numbers of peoples, nations, and tongues. (Rev 17:15 NAB)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    For whatever the Father does, the Son does likewise. (Joh 5:19 NET)
    YHWH judged the gods - who neither know nor understand, wandering about in darkness - and became the snake - thus fulfilling the law.
    Adam wields the fiery sword, judges the earth, and becomes a worm - thus fulfilling the law.
    The gods will be measured against the judgment (sacrifice) by Adam. YHWH is without measure.
    (Are they) unjust, humanly speaking, to inflict his wrath?
    Of course not! For how else (are they) to judge… ?
    And why not say-- as we are accused and as some claim we say-
    that we should do evil that good may come of it?
    Their penalty is what they deserve. (Rom 3:5-8 NABO)

    • @Texasmade74
      @Texasmade74 2 месяца назад

      Nonsense

    • @quetzelmichaels1637
      @quetzelmichaels1637 2 месяца назад

      @@Texasmade74 Thanks for your insight. Are you Catholic?

    • @Texasmade74
      @Texasmade74 2 месяца назад

      @@quetzelmichaels1637 no

    • @Texasmade74
      @Texasmade74 2 месяца назад

      You didn't actually say anything you just spewed a few Bible verses along with your opinions ​@quetzelmichaels1637

    • @quetzelmichaels1637
      @quetzelmichaels1637 2 месяца назад

      @@Texasmade74 That is an astute observation. This is the comment section. It is where opinions are expressed. I provided corresponding scriptural corroboration. Opinions on a topic. Do you work for the government?
      If you want to make it about me - I (resurrection) was Hitler (sacrifice).
      Does God have friends? Is it lonely at the top? Jesus hands Peter the keys to the kingdom and then, a few verses later, he is addressing him as Satan and calling him an obstacle. I wouldn't confront him about it. Peter can surgically remove your ear. Jacob can wrestle an angel until the break of day. All of team Satan is at his heel, watching his back. He has a lot of admirers following him up from the Abyss.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
      The Star of Bethlehem is called "Wormwood".
      For by my wrath a fire is enkindled that shall rage to the depths of the nether world (Abyss), Consuming the earth with its yield, and licking with flames the roots of the mountains. (Deu 32:22 NABO)
      Down I went to the roots of the mountains; the bars of the nether world (Abyss) were closing behind me forever (Jon 2:7 NABO)
      Do not say… 'Who will go down into the Abyss (nether world)?' (…to bring Christ up from the dead) (Rom 10:7 NABO)
      We saw his star (of Bethlehem) at its rising (Mat 2:2 NABO)
      Up from the Abyss (Rev 17:8 NABO)
      The star was called "Wormwood” (Rev 8:11 NABO)
      It was given the key for the passage to the Abyss. (Rev 9:1 NABO)
      Its rider was named Death, and Hades followed at his heels. (Rev 6:8 NABO)
      I hold the keys to death and the netherworld (Abyss). (Rev 1:18 NABO)
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      David rides the donkey. The bride of David rides the foal of the donkey.
      Blessed is the kingdom of our Father David that is to come! (Mar 11:10 NABO)
      Christ rides a horse - of many colors, or aspects, or perspectives.
      White - The wine press I have trodden alone (Isa 63:3 NABO)
      Red - Do not think that I have come to bring peace (Mat 10:34 NABO)
      Black - I came into this world for judgment (Joh 9:39 NABO)
      Pale Green - Its rider was named Death- Christ rising up from the Abyss (Rm 10:7) - all of Hades is at his heel (Rev 6:8 NJB)
      To ‘strike at’ the head or heel also means to admire.
      ‘Gripping’ the heel also means to protect, guard, or watch over.
      Christ has a lot of admirers at his heel watching over him.
      Save me, I pray, from the hand of my brother Esau! (Gen 32:12 NABO)
      Esau ran to meet him, embraced him, and flinging himself on his neck, kissed him as he wept. (Gen 33:4 NABO)
      you shall throw off his yoke from your neck." (Gen 27:40 NABO)
      the kingdom of God will be… given to a people that will produce its fruit. (Mat 21:43 NAB)
      Take my yoke upon you (Mat 11:29-30 NABO)
      What is the fruit of the kingdom? The salvation of those who became corrupted? Serving those in need?
      ----------------------------------------------------------------
      YHWH: The God of Metallurgy
      Earth is YHWH’s Everlasting Lake of Fire and Brimstone, his furnace of roaring flames where, in his furious wrath, he will gather you up, put you in, and smelt you. If your name is not found in the Book of Life, he will refine you, remove your dross, and purify you until the Devil, the False Prophet, and the Beast (false beliefs) are cleansed from you. There, you will be tormented or, tested for purity by questioning.
      Strong’s: Brimstone 1a) divine incense, because burning brimstone was regarded as having power to purify, and to ward off disease
      Strong’s: Tormented: 1) to test (metals) by the touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of gold or silver by the color of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal 2) to question by applying torture
      Just as silver, bronze, iron, lead, and tin are gathered into a furnace and smelted in the roaring flames, so I will gather you together in my furious wrath, put you in, and smelt you. (Eze 22:20 NABO)
      (it is better to marry than to be on fire (1Co 7:9 NABO) Be fruitful, and multiply (Gen 1:28 KJV)
      The gates of the Abyss/ Hades will not prevail against it, (Mat 16:18)
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      How is that for an opinion?

  • @anjuthomas4551
    @anjuthomas4551 2 месяца назад

    Nothing doing.
    Satan will do anything possible to take away the faith of believers.
    So people with weak understanding must not watch this kind of stuff.