What is the WORLD'S OLDEST ALPHABET? (and other questions)
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- Dr. M answers his voicemails, covering topics from Elagabalus, the Dorian Invasion, primary sources, and what he likes to eat.
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► REFERENCES
On the alphabet:
www.thearchaeo...
omniglot.com/w...
net.lib.byu.ed...
theworld.org/s...
www.timesofisr...
www.asor.org/a...
www.asor.org/a...
www.unicode.org...
On Elagabalus:
www.jstor.org/...
amzn.to/3c5aJYw
www.academia.e...
On the Dorian invasion:
www.penn.museu...
Some recommended textbooks:
amzn.to/3atNpDC
amzn.to/3yRJlGu
amzn.to/3PiCjzQ
Professor Miano's handy guide for learning, "How to Know Stuff," is available here:
www.amazon.com...
Follow Professor Miano on social media:
►FACEBOOK: / drdavidmiano
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►INSTAGRAM: / drmiano
The fact that Dr Miano's dad rings up his voicemail to lecture him on pronunciation, despite the fact he's a) a grown-ass man and b) literally a lecturer is just golden. Families are great.
And shouldn't his dad have said "doing well" not "doing good"?
@@duanewilliams557 Maybe he meant "doing good", such as rescuing kitties from tall trees, chasing down pickpockets, etc. 🙂
I'm only familiar with British usage, and for me the verb "to live" has a short vowel and the adjective "live" has a diphthong as if it were "laive."
For me "lived" as a past tense verb has a short vowel, as does the compound adjectival form in "short-lived" or "long-lived," but I was surprised to find that my dictionary allowed both pronunciations for the latter, with a preference for the diphthong.
How you speak usually depends on where you live, and those who travel far to work or study may end up speaking very differently. Sometimes we have to make the effort to "change back" when we go home.
Aaaahahahahhahaaaa
The comedy element in that part and the matter of fact they deal with each other was _hilarious_ and a total surprise.
Thank you for that. I honestly didn't expect the answer to be textbooks, I was expecting something like having to dig through university archives of student state of the field papers with no way of being able to easily distinguish them from all the other student papers (I'm in university now, but given where I'm going with that and my general disaffection with higher academia, I'd still consider myself a layperson, and I've seen my school's archives, all the student papers are just sorted by class section and date). Textbooks might be intimidating reads in their own right, but nowhere near as intimidating as trying to read dozens or hundreds of papers and books, so that's Koch appreciated.
You sound almost exactly like the dapper dino
From 19393-1945, textbooks said that certain groups of people were not human.
Mvp: Tiny bug that stole the show
Worst player: RUclipss algorithm. Since I discovered this AMAZING channel a few weeks ago it thinks that worthless pseudoscience channels are the next logical step to watch :(
If you click "not interested" or "don't recommend channel" from the menu next to each video on that type of junk, you can train the algorithm pretty quickly I've found :)
@@markbosz9347 Cheers! Working on it. Just frustrating.
@@jimmyk5979 I feel ya man. You watch some videos about Ancient Egypt, the Sumerians or Elamites and suddenly you're being suggested Ancient Architects or Uncharted X videos with thumbnails claiming, "Does this new archaeological discovery rewrite our understanding of ancient history..?!" 😓
No. No it does not. When I find new historical channels I'm always wary and sceptical on the first watch, thinking, "Are these guys, 'I'm not saying it's aliens, but...'/biblical literalists/Graham Hancock fans or not??" 🤔
I tried to squish the bug. I thought there was one on my screen 😅
‘Well actually, Pop …”
Ahhhh the sass. I can just imagine family dinners with Dr and Mr Miano. 🌅😂
As always, I thoroughly enjoy your videos, Dr Miano. Every single time, I find out about something I never knew existed.
Aaaaahahahaaaahahaaaa
Love these Q&As, almost as much as when you debunk some of the unsubstantiated history and prehistory theories circulating in the youtubesphere. Thank you Dr. Miano!
8 languages!! That's impressive!! The only secondary language I've learned proficiently is German, and over the course of 50 years have forgotten most of it. I've thought about studying it again just for the fun of it. Great Q&A video Dr. M !!
The way to not loose a learned language is to use it. For me English is a learned second language. I use, and thus train, English but viewing and listening to videos like this and write comments as I do now. You could do the same to keep your German alive.
@@michaelpettersson4919 Yes absolutely! Language is only useful if you use them... The Idiom "Your words can be as sharp as a knife" ironically applies here too 😅
I also speak English as a second language while also learning German... I have two mother's languages, that being Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian) and Basa Jawa (Javanese Language)
Because Indonesian is Lingua Franca, I only use my second mother's language for conversations between peers and families.
If a stranger happens to speak the language that I know... I try to speak them with that language so I do not lose my ability to speak that one language... Training is key
I can’t tell you how reassuring and calming it is for me to visit your bastion of sanity Dr M.
The Elegabalus stuff is pretty wild.
Cassius Dio puts himself up there with Clement of Alexandria (in regards to his own treatment of the Carpocratians in the Stromateis), painting a Dali-esque funhouse mirror of his subjects.
Good to see the voices back- great job, Dr Miano!
I thought it was very interesting. Gives a whole different perspective and more personal. I wonder how the writer of that stuff came up with it. Did it really happen or was it his imagination or a collage of things other people mentioned? I'm definately going to look into this and find out what I can about it. I suspect a bit of overexagerated truth to make him look bad. This is of course only one element of a whole story and that would be nice to know.
You have everything Wrong!Dorians did not come from another Country...The Dorians were a Greek race, one of the four of antiquity, which according to written traditions originated from the mountain range of Pindos in Greece . According to the old traditional theory and under unclear circumstances, the Dorians descended on southern Greece around the 12th BC. century.....Also the Pelasgians are the Greeks themselves and not pre-Greeks but Proto-Greeks...
«Ην γαρ και το των Πελασγών γένος Ελληνικόν εκ Πελοποννήσου το αρχαίον, και τον Πελασγόν αυτόχθονα λέγων» (Διονύσιος ο Αλικαρνασσεύς.=The Pelasgian genus is Greek from Peloponnese the ancient one and Pelasgus is indigenous Dionysius of Halicarnassus.
Are you sure you are a historian?
When I was in college learning ancient and koine Greek, the "consensus" we had on the "Doric" Greek was that it was a dialect that grew out of the in place Greek culture. Our view, based on early 1980s scholarship, was that this was less an immigration or invasion phenomena than a class distinction within the broader culture. We described it like the difference between "high" German and "low" German.
I defer to you, but as far as I understand, Low and High German are geographical distinctions, not class distinctions. The language of the northern outlying lowlands vs the language of the interior highlands. In the same way that all of Dutch can be classified as "Low Franconian". (though from what I understand in Dutch plat has more of a negative rural connotation than platt in German, the alternative "neder" still translates into English as "low" and is in the name the country calls itself) It is true that in the early modern period a form of High German became standard in many courts across the empire, creating a class dichotomy in the north, but there's nothing improper about using "Low" or "High" at all. (I have a Bavarian friend currently living in Friesland who helped my with this)
Applying it to this specific example would mean that there is a regional element to it in addition to a class one.
People who speak Low German/low Saxon,
Anglian/Frisian.
On the continent, their Dna seems to be incredibly Scandinavian like. Unlike the vast majority of other Germans, in areas where High German is spoken.
Although this can't be said for the English/Anglo. They are mixed with Continental Kelt like DNA. Scandinavian. With some 10/20% linsular Celt autosomally speaking as an average. With of course some further mixing.
Now the High German consonant shift is said to have occurred between 300/600AD. First written down in the 9th century I believe. This altered a number of consonants in the southern German dialects - which includes Standard German, Yiddish, and Luxembourgish - and so explains why many German words have different consonants from the related words in English, Dutch and the Scandinavian
CB
"...an...invasion phenomena"
You say you learnt Greek. Why the plural?
@@CraftsmanOfAwsomenes When I was finishing ny 2nd year of German in the late 60s I could read Thomas Mann and Franz Kafka for example, but I remember finding a present copy of Der Stern and couldn't make any sense of it !
As someone who graduated in Anthropology/Archaeology and Classical Languages and also took a lot of History classes, I was happy to hear the distinction you made between archaeologists and historians. One of my Greek and Latin professors once explained how he became co-author of a book. A historian friend had asked him to check translations and the classical language professor thought they were so bad he translated them himself.
OMG Dr. M.as always I am enjoying this series of questions and your well considered answers. The gem, for me, was your dad's call. I'm likely closer to his age than yours, but I have always pronounced the phrase: " short-lived " just as you do. For exactly the same reason. My wife and I differ on this as well.
I'm currently reading a book titled ( not " entitled " ): " A Peoples History of science ", by Clifford D. Conner. His is a very down-to-Earth rendering of the anonymous people who really made discoveries and invented practices that were later credited to individual geniuses. It's a celebration of the contributions to our knowledge of the world and cosmos from common artisans, seaman, blacksmiths, merchants, etc, to the fields of mathematics, agriculture, metallurgy, navigation, instrument making etc. It puts invention back in the hands of those who worked with materials, sailed across vast expanses of open ocean, painstakingly domesticated food crops and animals, and, through trial and error over hundreds and thousands of years, developed practical knowledge, and innovations that enabled later theorists.
Wow! This Q&A is longer and even more interesting than the interesting but short ones. Before I changed graduate schools and majors, one of the most interesting courses of my entire grad school experience was US Historiography. It occurred to me that several of your callers today would benefit from such a course. The first surprise was that in less than 200 years a dozen different schools of thought on American history had developed. Exploring the differences and debating how they developed and their relative value was a lot of fun. Some people might be doubtful about the "fun," but I'm sure you know what I mean. We used primary sources but I think there were references to some comparative or explanatory texts.
Thanks for a really interesting video and a trip down memory lane!
I absolutely love that your dad left you a voicemail 😅👏🏻 Hi Dr. Miano's dad ... also a Dr. Miano?
Well this is a treat! Multiple questions in one video
About the aliens/atlantis people.
I think people like that are generally looking for a fantastic explanation and will likely show that inclination to every subject
As a former aliens/Atlantis believer, I can confirm I believed in many fantastical things 😅 Watched paranormal shows, etc. I no longer follow any of that stuff unless just for entertainment/nostalgia. I want to believe 🛸👽 but I absolutely no longer do. Won't surprise you to know I believed many conspiracy theories.
@@andreaarchaeology Can confirm & I still believe in probably all such things, to some extent. It’s largely a choice. I want to believe so I do. I won’t claim it’s based on great evidence, tho. I see why it’s considered outlandish.
If you stick around for long enough, you can definitely see bandwagons start, reach a peak and then fade away. In France, there was the Rennes-le-Chateau business, which was a local thing, apparently fueled by Surrealists (i.e. pranksters), before being taken up by half-educated TV men (Baigent & Lincoln) before merging with the Gospel of Mary Magdalene conspiracy theory to give rise to Dan Brown's magnum opus
@@andreaarchaeology there's a lot of actual science fiction that fills the wonder without pretending to be reality though. Mass Effect has ancient aliens that shaped technology, and Assassin's Creed has advanced civilization that also did that... both are good especially if you follow the lore.
Always happy to see a new video drop. Have a great week Dr. Miano.
These are always great! Keep em coming!!! Love your channel!
I love the fact that your dad called in to correct you. I see where you get the "setting people straight" genes from.
I'm a computer scientist and have no business with History.. but I absolutely love reading ancient literature; I've learned Classical Greek and Latin just for full immersion into the old times, for it's so enjoyable.
I've been scouring youtube for channels like yours because i've been addicted since I found you, now i can relax for 35 minutes :)
I love your Q and A format. Letting us hear the voice of the person asking the question really adds so much more to the question. Thank you for another wonderful video.
Personally I suspect that the name of the Pelasgians is related to the Greek word pelagos meaning "the sea." This would simply be a general term for all regional (Aegean) maritime peoples. They would also essentially be the "Sea Peoples" who, centuries before, fell upon Egypt ("...made a conspiracy in their islands ...") although the actual term was coined by Emmanuel de Rougé (“peuples de la mer,”) in a publication dating to 1867. The Egyptians listed one of these peoples as actually being called Pulisati or Peleset who would later become the Philistines or Palestinians.
Always nice to hear your thoughts on such subjects.
BTW from my brief study of Türkçe (Turkish language) while studying aspects of the WW I Gallipoli Campaign, "tepe" means "hill." I infer that for dig sites in Anatolia the local term "tepe" is used where "tell" is used elsewhere. In the USA we'd probably use the word "mound" as in "Moundsville Archeological Site" (not knowing what its inhabitants called it).
In mayan 'tepek' is also mound/hill.
Yay always happy to see anew video! Love ur work!
Papa Miano for the win
I already love your channel but including your amazing dad's message was just fantastic.
Being from Sicily, it would make perfect sense to have North African ancestry.
Enjoyably informative ! Cheers.
I love these segments. So many interresting questions.
really liked the longer format of answering more than 1 question in this q&a! good stuff
Great video! Regarding the first alphabet question, what about the Vinca/Danube Script? There is few info about that, I'd like to know your input about it. Also, can we have a long video about Elagabalus? The establishment of Sol Invictus, his parading of a meteor in a chariot as symbol of that cult... it's a wild ride.
I’ve read part of a relatively recent textbook that touched on this (European Prehistory: A Survey. From 2012 I think).
The gist of it was that Marija Gimbutas considered them to be some sort of writing, but that most archeologists disagreed with her until the discovery of three incised clay tablets from Tartaria, a low mound whose lowest levels contain a Vinča occupation (clay and stone figurines, a shell bracelet, and the three tablets were found). Now it is a bit less controversial than before the discovery, but still VERY controversial. Contention even exists among archeologists about whether these tablets are intrusions from a later strata that somehow ended up amongst the lower, older objects. I’m not sure how that works, but apparently this is a distinct enough possibility to make things less than clear-cut, and some archeologists think they might be associated with Sumerian gold-prospectors due to similarities in the symbols. Maybe the idea is that prospectors were digging in that place and that disturbed the layers.
I’ll include a quote from the book:
“The interpretation of marks, motifs, and designs, such as these Tartaria inscriptions, which occasionally turn up on artifacts, should be done with the greatest caution. They may be symbols of some sort, such as marks of ownership, but it is unlikely that they are writing. The use of symbols to express ideas may go back to the lower Paleolithic, but it is extremely difficult to demonstrate archaeologically whether a corpus of symbols constitutes a writing system…Writing was usually developed by early state societies to facilitate record keeping to help administer these complex social, political and economic systems. It is unlikely that the prestate societies of the European Neolithic would have invented writing independently, since they would not have needed it. There is no evidence that institutionalized complex administrative apparatuses existed in these cultures. It does not mean that the marking on Vinča pots have no meaning. They may represent a community’s or household’s separate identity (Tringham and Krstić 1990). David Anthony (pers. com. June 2001) noted that Near Eastern writing was for record keeping, but Chinese writing began for ritual and commemorative purposes associated with the sacred power of kings. It might be the Chinese model that could apply to south-eastern Europe, a sort of sacred script, like the signs on oracle bones in China.”
I would LOVE to read that personal communication from David Anthony. I contacted the textbook’s author to ask if he wouldn’t mind sharing that part of it, but didn’t get a response.
However, I do know that archeologists believe that the oracle bone script was developed enough that it was likely in use on other mediums than the bones, but those mediums just haven’t been preserved as well. For example, The character ce 册 shows up in Shang oracle bone inscriptions. It is assumed to be a pictograph of bamboo slips held together with string. Evidence of pen-and-ink writing apparently exists on some oracle bones as well, so clearly they were using ink. Given this I’m not sure how the link between the development of early Chinese scripts and the sacred power of kings is drawn, when it could be that it’s genesis was in record keeping, but the records have been destroyed by time.
EDIT: I would also LOVE to see a World of Antiquity video on the Vinča symbols!
I've just downloaded your booklet. Thank You, cannot wait to start read it.😊❤
the lack of technical correctness promotes confusion. it's like saying a piece of pattern welded steel is Damascus steel. they appear the same but are not. in physics the double slit experiment confused me for years because observe does not mean see with eyes but refers to measurement, and thats kinda important.
I am the same way with foods. I can never pick out a favorite food and I love trying new foods. I haven't been able to find a Korean Restaurant since I moved back to North Dakota. but used to love those places. I also love Vietnamese Pho.
I’ve never heard anyone say this before! I am a huge gourmand, so I understand liking everything & wanting to try new things, but I have an obsession with ranking/hierarchy, so it’s unfathomable to me that others don’t. I feel you on missing variety or even a specific restaurant due to living in a rural area. FTR, it’s pretty easy to make Pho. I had to special order the seeds to grow the right kind of basil in my garden, but you can make delicious bone broth that is no doubt higher quality than in most restaurants.
Imo, one of the worst parts of living in Germany, where I am, is the lack of many good Asian cuisines, basically only Indian & Thai in bigger cities. Cheap pan-Asian takeout is the only thing in the countryside, & it’s nearly inedible. Pizza is terrible here too & has weird cheese on it. Also burgers are not much of a thing here (growing tho), or rotisserie chicken, except for junk food chains. And there is no pie, & not enough cake. Simple things I could so easily get but can’t anymore. But at least standard German/Central European food is delicious.
I learned to make my own kimchi. I discovered that, though there are a number of Asian supermarkets in the Boston area, the ready made product that they sell is unsatisfactory. If you lived in Korea, you know that there are regional and local differences, so that may be the problem. I have found that Japanese "Kimchi Base" mixed with some Sriracha and other spices can make a reasonable substitute. I also found that my mother would not let me bring it into the house and definitely wouldn't let me make 김치찌개!!! So good luck!
@@JMM33RanMA Kimchi does seem pretty easy to make, if you can get the ingredients. I would need to grow my own cabbage to make it properly here. Fermented foods are so nutritious too.
@Janitor Queen Someone who gets it! So this burger you miss has beanless chili on top? That sounds divine. Is there a roll too? Brioche or what? I miss InNOut, which was the only ‘fast food’ I liked in the US, but not as much as the more gourmet burgers. I love that you’ve put all this thought into acquiring the chili. Beans in chili are wrong. I’ve never actually had good chili at a restaurant, but I’m happy with the one I make. It can be made so many different ways & contains so many ingredients tho that I understand why you’re struggling to find the same kind.
I swear I read the first two sentences as "flood" instead of "food". Works surprisingly well.
I love watching you explain historical "stuff"! You're so excited about it all, it gets me excited too!
"Stop embarrassing me, dad!" haha, great stuff.
Thank you.
It is very refreshing to see someone who is no totally full of s**t with a channel like this thank you
Hi Professor Miano
I hope you will indulge a written question,... I'm afflicted with an "Estuary (Thames) English" dialect had have never come to terms with that disability :-)
We often hear of known but "lost" texts, very often Greek. I'm sure there are examples outside of Greek but the Greeks seem to have been either more prolific, more self-referential or just shoddier at bookkeeping!
For some reason such losses always deeply sadden me. What is your feeling for the probability of such texts ever being rediscovered. Obviously this can't be precisely answered but do you have a feel for how often such re-discoveries occur or how feasible it is for texts of such age to physically survive.
Lost texts that we know about, unfortunately, rarely get found. We do find texts, but they are usually ones we hadn't heard of before.
Thanks for an interesting assortment of topics. I enjoy your channel.
I've cooked alot of medieval andalusian Arabic recipes. That's probably my favourite cuisine right now. Surprisingly modern flavours - this cuisine was very influential on French and later European cuisine.
How about grilled chicken basted with a sauce of olive oil, thyme, garlic, vinegar, pepper and murri (fermented barley sauce)? Served over a sort of dish with bread layered with thick almond and cheese sauce. Then garnished with eggs and olives and more almonds. It's really good food. And totally historical.
There is no real evidence that it was had any real effect on european cuisine at all, look at the recipe you have shown, these were typical ingredients of dishes even in roman times, and after without any arab connection.. such an unnecessary reach.
Mr. Antiquity's got the voice that turns him into the Bob Ross of factuality+skeptic-checking archeology archeology
I really enjoyed this topic and style of video, hope to see more like this. Thanks 😊
4:45
They were Canaanite speakers. And Hebrew being the central (geographically) Canaanite language, the other Canaanite languages, whether it was Edomite, Moabite, or Phoenician where understood by Hebrew speakers. Especially for the early periods.
Even today, I am a modern Hebrew speaker and I can understand Phoenician writings pretty well. Although, it is quite difficult.
@4:58 - The damages text is something which is perfect for machine learning or similar. Train a computer to complete the lines on similar text that we know. Like remove lines from text we know and make the computer restore it. When it's good at this, feed this mystery rock face into it and see what comes out. Maybe it provides some focus on the lines?
I know this is a 6 month old video, but just wanted to say, in terms of finding out an academic consensus on something, in my experience at least, academics and professors are happy to answer emails from curious people (the ones I've written to anyway). I live near two universities with decent science departments, and I've looked up a professors office hours and showed up to kindly ask for a few moments of their time to ask them about something, and they were happy to speak to me if they had the time, or arrange a time for me to come back. It seems like a lot of them actually enjoy telling you about things if you are curious and polite. I'm sure this would not always work, but I've always been met with enthusiasm when I've tried personally.
An enthusiastic yes! To mediterranean food being 1st on your list. Also have really gotten into Korean food as well lately. Nothing against Indian food I have just been a big fan of it for a couple of decades now. Really enjoyed the channel as I am new to it, And appreciate the introduction to Milo over at many minute man Because that guy is worth at least a dozen belly laughs per episode.
The answer on the books and textbooks to find the consensus of the field (survey of the field) is a great one and one I'll take with me as I continue learning more!
Thank you so much for advicing of finding better sources from now on Ill follow the state of the field surveys more closely than other books!
Excellent response on textbooks being a good "overview" of fields. Enjoying your videos!
So many lives writting this symbols to communicate for so long, amazing how one human life is so short but our history is so big, every single culture and believes made to experience the world in their way is mind blowing to think!
I love how much ancient writers were also gossips at heart lol. Human nature never changes :D
Your dad, LOL! A lot of really great questions here. Subscribed!!!
Thank you, and welcome!
Greetings! I loved the Q&A, particularly what questions you think about and would like to know the answer to, and what you've found out about your own family history.
I'm a genealogist, and working with primary sources a lot. There are of course a lot of "brick walls", and each is challenging in its own way, but the one thing that frustrates me the most are instances where something is treated as common knowledge in a source, but the meaning is completely lost to us today. Instances of this can be surprisingly recent (a lot of 20th century history suffers from that problem). I often wish the writer would have spent just half a sentence telling us *why* something happened, or why something was important. More often than not, the sources remain silent.
I'm not surprised that a historian of the ancient near east has fallen in love with the modern cuisines of places you study.
Thank you
I’m about half way through your book Ideas in the Making of primary sources. It’s very interesting.
I have an MA in translation and you sir, are inspiring me to become an Assyriologist.
Excellent...many thanks for your succinct explanations and insights...
To one of the latter questions: Tartaria is to Atlantis what Flat Earth is to Young Earth Creationism. Low bar for entry, but one is lower than the other. And YECs need some group to look down on.
As to fashion: the Atlantean fashion is pretty old, going back to Donnelly, e.t.c. Writers like Cayce and Blavatsky dropped a load of mysticism onto it, for extra acuity. Both of these show strong amounts of literary borrowing from mostly 19th C fiction authors (Lytton, Machen, and so forth). Their works inspired further fictions (Lovecraft, Doyle, the Usual Suspects submitting to Amazing Stories and the like) who then inspired further "non-fiction", some streams of which flowed into Hollywood and other wide ranging parts of modern culture, by which time Aliens became more central than Donnelly's Atlantis or Lytton's Vril-ya. And so on. Frankly, a bit tired of it. We need better Antediluvian nonsense to occupy ourselves. But that's just my hot take.
Great video, as usual. Wonderful content and channel, Dr. M.
Sounds like I need to come up with some alt history ideas to get more of those great response videos!
In reference to older sites similar to Gobekli Tepe... I think they call these types of sites Tas Tepeler sites. Many of them are older than Gobekli Tepe, showing the development of that particular cultural type. The commonality seems to be the T-Pillars within enclosures.
Great video. Very nice variety of subjects. Very enjoyable.
Hello Doctor. What are your views on the Sanskrit alphabet of ancient Vedic literature or also the pictographical script of the ancient Indus Valley civilization?
This man has a phd and his father is still coming after his pronunciation lol
Useful, quite a variety of subjects!
As always David another informative video
That was my dad giving me a hard time. haha burst out laughing 😂😂
I love these videos!
These were some really good questions
Problem with using the word Abjad for consonant-only alphabets is that Hebrew literally starts with Aleph Bet... Really both words mean just first letters (ABJD and AB) Alphabet really sounds closer to Hebrew (I know it's from Greek).
About the Dorians, it is not always easy to downpin an "invasion" in archaeology, but I know of plenty of exotic Central European Urnfield pottery and jewellery that appear at the end of the IInd millenium BC in Greece. They are very common in Greek Macedonia and are found in layers of burnt tells which do suggest destruction of most of the villages by an invading people. They also import central-European architecture. Some of the pottery of these newcomers are impossible to distinguich from that you find in previous periods in Hungary, Croatia and Serbia. It should also be noted that for several ancient writers Dorian and Macedonian were interchangeable and we know that the Macedonians spoke a Dorian dialect from their inscriptions. What is weird is that the Urnfield culture is thought to have spoken the ancestor of Celtic languages, not of some Greek dialect. But perhaps the Greek dialect was already there in Macedonia, the newcomers assimilated it, and went on to invade the southern parts of Greece.
Its actually fascinating that maybe not the same use but their letters are often the same
Please do a video on pre-roman Iberia someday.
love the Q&A videos, and i love that you answer questions about queer history. much appreciated :3
I half expected the one after your dad's to be your dad again lol. That would've made me laugh
Time travel and multi- verse are also popular bandwagons too😁
There's an interesting parallel between script moving northwards from Egypt and the Exodus described in the Bible. I doubt we would have enough evidence to scientifically identify the two, of course, but it provides an interesting, if unscientific, thought experiment; as a Catholic Christian I'm going for that.
Don't take it too hard Dr P that's what parents are for, keep you real!
A true alphabet has letters for the vowels of a language as well as the consonants. The first "true alphabet" in this sense is the Greek alphabet and did not derived from any Phoenician lettering....
The Greeks wrote not only their syllabic Linear A and B Scripts but also a type of writing identical to that of the Alphabet at least from 6000 BC. In fact, in Dispelio, in the waters of the lake of Kastoria, professor G. Hourmouziadis discovered an inscribed tablet with writing almost identical to the alphabet, which was dated by the modern methods of radioactive carbon (C14) and optical thermoluminescence to 5250 BC....
The same archaeologist, conducting excavations in Milos in 1995, discovered "proto-Cycladic vases" of the middle of the 3rd millennium BC, which bore identical letters of the Greek Alphabet X, N, M, K, X, P, O, E. It is obvious that these archaeological discoveries have not only already given the character of the comedy to the so-called "Phoenician Theory" of the discovery of writing, but they are overturning the entire official dating of Greek History, as it is taught, but also the official world history of Culture..... Enough with the lies!
There is no doubt that the Greek alphabet is based on the Phoenician one. The letters are copied.
The Dispilio tablet does not have the Greek alphabet on it. This is the first I have heard about proto-Cycladic vases with the alphabet on them. Please share the name of the archaeological report.
Good video
Here is a theory on the Dorians. They were a product of Mycenean isolation after the fall of the bronze age trade collapse. They were the same people adapting to the changing times.
I would like to add some info to the big picture, see below. World first cultures Lepenski Vir (Iron Gates) starts 11500 BC, Starcevo culture starts 6200 BC, Vinča culture starts 5700 BC, today Serbia. Cucuteni culture starts 4800 BC, Varna culture starts 4500 BC, Yamnaya culture 3300 BC.
World first industrial revolution ca. 6000 BC. Bronze metallurgy. (BBC History news March 2010)
Gordon Childe-The Danube in Prehistory, Jacque Pirenne-Agriculture at Danube
Farming start about 6000 BC. Vinca First Calendar start to count years at 5508 BC. (Now in 2024 we have year 7532) Farming wouldn’t be possible without knowledge of calendar. Both development started and developed together.
Harald Haarmann about first cyrillic writings in Vinca culture in 5500 BC so 2000 years before any writings anywhere else on the world.
Vinca Iron production 1400 BC.
In today English language there is more than 2000 same or similar Serbian words.
Names of the Balkan tribes: Pelasgians, Mycenaeans, Etruscan-called themselves Rasi, in Serbia exist even today province Ras. Wendi, (Wendisch museum in Cottbus, Germany, Lusatian Sorbs, Lužički Srbi.) Illiyrians, Macedonians (Homer is saying Paeonian people walked on foot 11 Days to help Trojans war), Dardanians (Original Troy is here, not in Turkey, Homer wrote sea is freezing in the winter-Panonian sea), Moesians, Dacians, Thracians, Rasci, Celts, Scythians, Sarmatians, Arians, Sea People, Peleset, Philistines, Hittites, Bhrygians. Tribes spread in all directions all over Europe and Asia …….
Wild Greeks arrived ~ 1000 BC from Egipt, Hungarian from Asia and Bulgars from Asia they found culture on the Balkans, writings and language and they mixed with domestic people. 18 Roman emperors were born in Serbia because of Etruscan connection.
After Trojan war many groups of people left Troy in all directions to middle Europe, northern Europe to Britain and Scandinavia, south to Anatolia.One group under Aeneas sat sail with 22 ships and about 3400 followers and reach Italy-Etruscans.
Proto Serbian language spoken all over the Balkans in Illyria, Thracia, Dardania, Moesia, Pelasgia, Macedonia, Etruria, Bhrygia, Sarmatia and so on….Germans published dictionary in year 1791 German- Illyrian so you can read the words and speak, it is very similar to today Serbian.It is older than Sanskrit, Greek, Latin or all western European languages. Plato confirms in his work The Dialogues of Plato-Cratylus the Greeks used Pelasgian (Proto Serbian) to develop their own language.
Etruscan origin? I thought that was pretty much settled - they were a ruling class that had escaped from Lydia when it collapsed, with a stopover in Lesbos Island, as a ruling class they took over the native people of Tuscany and merged with them, bringing Lydian customs and tech but leaving mostly local DNA. And where did Lydians come from? Well, they were related to the earlier Hittites who were a Indo-European group from the Yamnaya culture in the Ukraine.
And the Sumerian origin? welp, some say they were refugees from the sea rise and flooding of the Persian Gulf.
or it that all a house of cards?
Those are partial reconstructions that are still being challenged. Especially the Etruscan origins, as the presented hypothesis is shaky at best for the times before they (probably) left north-east of the Aegean.
The Sumerian coming "from beyond a sea" is their own origin story, but the chronology brings similar inconsistencies as the Dorian invasion story and makes the idea just one of the possibilities.
I lvoe your videos:
- Can you answer that question?
- Ah, yes, but what does the question really mean?
Thanks!
OMG, I love Marcus Van Der Mieroop!
Thanks, Doc, for maintaining a presence of scholarly reasonability in this miasma of gaslit youtubification... Keep the faith!
On April 4, 2024. Serbs celebrate the year 7532.
A few years ago, NASA announced that they are using the ancient Serbian calendar because it is the most accurate, that it is completely harmonized with nature, that the beginning of the seasons according to that calendar coincides with the electromagnetic changes of the Sun, lake water is changing ph level to acidic or alkaline on exact date.
David, I have some problems with the "unidirectional" writing, as there was a time when bustrophedon (i.e. changing directional on every second line) was also used.
Clearly, the time of the earliest alphabets/system of pictographs is the demarcation between history and pre-history. Can you share or point me to a resource of how archeologists/scientists come to a time estimation of when human communication could be deemed language and what marks that event?
Dr. Miano, the North African part could be a carry over from the Emirate of Sicily before the Norman conquest. So maybe you had some far distant ancestors stayed there after the Hauteville conquest.
Could be!
I learned while I was in St Louis that the locals call it St Lewis [Loo-is], not St Louis [Loo-ey]. However, I still think of the place as St Louis (Route 66: "down to St Louis, right across Missouri ...) where I lived, not lie-vd, in 1985.
The sandstone sphinx has the Egyptian on it that says beloved Hathor,,, then the rest looks like writing from the GIJoes “the mummy’s tomb” or something.
תודה על הסירטון הזה! אתה ממש נבון וכל סירטון שלך מדהים ומקסים
25:42
There is even talk that things like stonehenge are evolutions of gobeklitepe.
Why they lost the engraving?
"that's my dad giving me a hard time"😂🤣
Serabit El-Khadim (meaning something akin to 'Tunnel of the Servants') was also a large turquoise mining site, Hathor being the goddess of mining, and many of the early Proto Sinaitic inscriptions are either (assumed to be written by miners from the levant) cursing "the lady" (assumed to mean Hathor) or praising Hathor. I wonder how much this may have to do with "the golden calf" in the Biblical Exodus myths seeing that the stories were places in the same area.
Hathor means 'House of Horus' and her name is on the top right of the sphinx statue shown in the video, it is the Hawk inside a variation of the square symbol for house.
Interestingly, Wadi El-Hol is just south of Dendara, the major temple site of Hathor (mines also?), but that may not necessarily be connected.
History is how people viewed their world, knew their history and their biases. Archaeology is evidence of what actually happened, including the daily life bits that noone really bothers to record
Excellent work Doctor. I'd suggest that the source of the Tartarian myth was cooked up at a drunken chef's convention and is comprised of mayonnaise, pickles, capers, lemon juice, and herbs.
😆