Pitfalls of Ni and Se | Planning VS Grit
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- Опубликовано: 19 апр 2021
- Ah expending energy towards your dreams! Where are the strengths and weaknesses of both Ni (Introverted Intuition) and Se (Extroverted Sensing)? What can we learn from the other? Does Se really have more Grit? Can that help them get ahead?
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#LiJo #Ni #Se
You've just described me (INTJ) and my brother (ESTP) lol. We make money by mowing people's lawns (as teenagers). And my brother loves to go out and find as many lawns as possible to get as much money as he can. Meanwhile I've gone the route of just having a few people I can go and see on a more consistent basis, expending less energy going out and asking people and being able to call those people when I need them.
BEAUTIFUL analogy supplement.
“I will always choose a lazy person to do a difficult job because a lazy person will find an easy way to do it.”
It’s funny that you say laziest non-lazy person, because I struggle at times trying to use other words to describe it. I say lazy and friends immediately see the incongruity between my words and my character. I always use a quote like the one above to explain Ni to people. It’s not that it’s laziness per se. It’s just that Ni has an inherent penny pinching-ness to energy expenditure. I think enneagram type 5 refers to it as Avarice, because it’s an inherent drive to protect its resources (often time and energy being the most valuable). Certainly one of the pitfalls I run into.
Yes! You absolutely get what I was trying to say here. 😆
Ni is like Beth Harmon - A very smart chess player but can't fist fight a cat or get the boys's attention. (Something she truly desires)
Se is like Achilles - He can take down an entire army with his power (almighty will and strength) but was killed by one careless mistake. (forgot to cover up his heel with armour)
You're the laziest not lazy person, I'm the most energetic lazy person.
One of my favorite quotes about MBTI in general is pretty much this, "NFs aren't practical. At all. Being an NF is great for helping people but we can't get stuff done."
Hmm, when your most important functions are intuition and feeling, that makes sense. Intuition can be slow and feeling is feeling. I've mostly found that NFs are very active in their imaginations. It's only once they use their lower two functions that they really end up being productive... one of my friends that's an INFJ is probably the most practical out of all of the NFs I know. I know a few INFPs, two INFJs, and one ENFP whom I adore. I'm an ENFJ and I'm actually friends with another ENFJ now! Although, one of the INFPs I know is also really good at keeping up with life. Salute my friends! Good for you!
I enjoy life more when I tap into Ti a lot; it's just hard to do that when Fe is screaming at me to help people and love them and be around them all the time. Plus, it's hard to get in that headspace too. Man, when you're really on top of your game though... it's awesome. Everything's clean, grades are up, everybody's happy or at least ok, you're chilling reading a book or doing whatever, it's so satisfying. My definition of success is that pretty much. Everything in its proper order and place. It doesn't make any sense for those that know me.
Well put. This is why wise Se dominants save their hard earned gains for the future, and wise intjs jump into the game sooner to implement "The Plan™" not trying to achieve perfection on the first try.
Unfortunately too many ni dominants are focused on perfecting the "The Plan™" and have failure to launch syndrome, where they don't get moving fast enough and miss too many opportunities. I know that's a reason why my career stalled initially, and only picked up steam after doing Se things.
Yep well said. Exactly.
Great video Lindsay, thx!
It's kinda the tortoise and the hare analogy in some ways.
🐢 🐇 it very much is!
Ig having Ni and Se in the 2nd and 3rd positions is like a super power... It would be a shame if I were to use it to conquer the whole world 😈
Definitely but the process would be much faster if Ni-Se axis user had a certain notebook that provides a certain power...
It would be a shame if I took said notebook 😈
@@entj5315 Definitely but perhaps the notebook requires lead Thinking to understand and maybe the Ni-Se axis user's default mode is Feeling...
This is one of the reasons I've grown to truly appreciate the NiSe double observer in the ENTJ stack. Especially since my Se was strongly crafted in mechanical engineering and lots of outdoor Se stuff in upbringing. I was slower, as you said,but then crafted in innovative game changing designs once I caught up. In fact, to your general point, I do tend to lag in almost everything, until I zoom past. Slow, but better, is the life pattern it seems.
Story of my life. Although as I get older I can 100% see Ni trying to plan a lot more. These days when I’m building something I have one eye on “self sustaining” or a form of “fusion” if you will. Where it will run on its own energy and I don’t have to keep shoveling coal in so to speak, just to keep it running and burning.
I've actually been thinking about Se being associated with "grit" recently! Can't wait
This couldn't of come at a better time. Just this morning, I was despairing while thinking about how I'm not a grind kind of person like my construction coworkers (current and former) and how I wish I was so but I JUST DON'T HAVE THE ENERGY ECONOMY to sustain that! I do just so to plan how to accomplish the task most efficiently and also avoid dangers, slowdowns with material, etc instead of bashing my head against the wall just expending energy uselessly. I'm an intp but it still applies. Thank you
This was excellent Lindsey so great! Excellent blast! I love your function dominating approach to OP and Meyers Briggs. Nice Ni, keep going!!!!
It's about finding peace between the functions. Too much concious change increases opposition between functions and Too little concious change creates opposition between opposing functions.. When we find peace between one pair of functions in opposition, another deeper pair wants peace too. Over how however much time it takes to learn, it becomes dance of all the functions. And cover more time we just learn to be the amount of concious change that are nature is best suited for. Which was there all along, but we just weren't enough at peace to see it, for long enough to describe it. Learning the dance means ego has to go bye, no more plans of world domination 😔😂
this reminds me of the alan Turing movie where he spent time planning and building his machine instead of trying to break the codes by hand like everyone else, this video explained it perfectly
Before this I thought Turing in that movie (assuming you’re referencing The Imitation Game) was a lead consume Ti/Ne with play last. I do think he’s a lead Ti, as his biggest tidal waves occur concerning Fe. But I’m now realizing that Ti/Ni makes more sense for him than Ti/Ne; he poured all of his energy into one taking apart concept rather than jumping around extroverted concepts to make connections. Interesting :))
Spot on LiJo I wish Ni showed up earlier to the party.
True statement about being the laziest hard working person.
I love how awkwardly you end some of your videos. I feel that.
Great video. I'd love to see a similar one comparing Te and Fi.
In this context I see Ni as theoretical planning and Se as learning by doing and gaining real world experience. Ideally you need a bit of both. That's why I love having both functions closely together in the middle of my function stack with Ti on top to combine their respective findings.
Ha, ha on point as always… i am ALWAYS looking for long-term solutions in my business
Ti: Ok nice, I figured out how to create the perfect house building company... Let's go do something else.
I'm an INTJ with fairly strong Se. But that creates a conflict between these two. Normally in my company, I'll do the managing and planning which suits me better than the actual building part, that is something you can do as a hobby where time doesn't count. The problem is that because of employee shortage, I have to do the building part for half a year now and the resulting conflict tears me apart. I can do that, no doubt. But to get things done in time, you have to let Se dominate you which means doing now and think later. But afterwards, you think anyway how you could have done it better, in less time and so on. but then, it is already done and you don't want to tear it down and implement the better ideas because then you can't make money and you'll never be done.
I very much realize now that you cannot sustain swapping the order of your functions for an extended period, because I am Ni dominant and not Se and that is simply not healthy. So I have to get back to the managing as soon as possible because there, you can do as much iterations of the building process of your concrete houses as you want until you have the perfect solution, to stick with the example and because that is an repeated process, the time invested doesn't count because the long-term time saving justifies that, in contrast to the one-time building where you cannot afford to overthink.
Thank you for helping me realize that!
Great parable and timely too! I'm quite lazily planning how to make the same money with less effort. 😈 But it's so I can start another business. 😇
I have great respect for both.
But it’s more detrimental to be stuck in the cycle of “paralysis by analysis” and sit and plan and think and tinker before putting a theory to the test.
A doer will just “do it,” plan be damned, and if the doer is constantly on the look out for a better way to do “the thing” AS THEYRE DOING IT, then they can readjust as necessary.
The former is in a state of wait, not getting anything done; the latter may be expending more “energy” right now, but until their hand is in the dirt grinding away, they have no practical experience in learning how to manipulate their work in a way that will expend the least amount of energy in the long run.
I love the idea of Se as grit.
Lindsay, I love you. I’m tired of people on the internet assuming you’re not an INTJ type and that you’re lying. You know better how it is, I could relate to you in many things you have been telling about and I think you’re so underrated with what you put out, with all of your knowledge and explanations, videos making etc. Know, that people love you, even if it turns out, that you are wrong in something... Because you give so much that what type you have really means less. You’re an amazing person. Always do your thing and what you believe in. There are people who are jealous and can only see what they want to see and they do nothing, but care about putting other people down / cancel them, as that culture is now and I don’t think they have their own things going on except that. ✌🏼
Thanks :) I’m not worried about the internet trolls. I don’t feed them. The few of them don’t even come close to the volume of alignment I have with INTJS I’ve met through this channel.
Really appreciate your kind words.
Oh my gosh, been trying to put into words Se as I've experienced it. GRIT definitely fits. I literally expend the most energy possible doing "the thing". If I'm not exhausted at the end of the day from work. I feel sort of ashamed.
When I was a trucker I outworked every guy in the vetting process (was told by 15 of the other guys in the group at the same time, stop working so fast, you're making us look bad) have worked manual labor for the last 17 years. (A short season as a director behind a desk and screen) Meetings are torture. Give me a massive list to tackle, have everyone say that's too much for one person to accomplish, then step back and I'll actually get it done. 💪
I've worked 3 jobs at a time 20+ hours straight. But where I'm getting butt kicked at 33 now, is that the wear and tear has caught up. Herniated disc, inflammation (I thought that was an old person problem!) Reminds me of the scene from Batman when Alfred sees the bruises and cuts on Bruce Wayne's back and he says "Know your limits Mr. Wayne" and Bruce responds "Batman has no limits."
Took 3 hours to learn about Google classroom apis to reduce time putting assignments on there which took just an hour to just put up drafts weekly. Now I just run a program that I built that saves so much time
What I find frustrating and annoying is that during the NI stage I am enthusiastic and engaged but once I have seemingly solve the optimization of the task I and understand how it supposed to work I almost immediately loose interest in the task. Things that should have been fun hobbies, pastimes, projects just drop dead before they even rise to the level of lazy
I get the Se being physical but Se also loves new and therefore likely will change and improve with time. I feel that nuance is lost in this analogy. 😕
Very true! I agree.
Would you say Te is the tool to get Ni to Se?
Hare = Se (short term, physical energy burst in time).
Tortoise = Ni (long term, physical energy spread out over time).
Yes_No? trying to understand, if this analogy is appropriate.
I'll be done... eventually. I'm still going... getting there... xD
Energy is always associated with the sensory, but it shouldn’t. I get why people do it, it’s because it is a form of energy that can be seen more easily. But while I have little energy for sensory things, I have the energy and excitement required for learning for hours. It’s strange to say that INTJ’s are not energetic people, we are, but in a more subtle way
I mean... Laziness is efficiency!
Se disrespecting abstract control (age, time, energy) to make stuff happen. You love to Se it.
Ni: y=x^2
Se: y=x
Ni>Se when x>1
Love this!
What's the song's name of the intro?
Lush by Four Tet
@@InternetLiJo thank you
Se is a pair of dirty work boots
Ni is a railroad track
That would have been great to have you as a close friend or sister.
Anyone want to create an android App MBTI detector ?
Should be possible we need to train an AI with :
__People physical appearence
__Brain layout
__Reaction to certain stimulus
I think some people have been looking into this too!
@@InternetLiJo Euh that look interesting. Can you go deeper about that or you are joking ?
The stuff OP are doing can easily lead to a solution like that.
You can't have Ni without Se.
Lijo! Lijo! Lijo! GOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Lijoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! xDDD
Standard Lazy People may find the quickest and easiest way to do it, but they will never ever consider all the different parts of the puzzle or the end goal.
INTJ Lazy People consider the goal, along with all inputs, outputs, and effectors.
Standard Lazy People build shit houses that crumble. INTJ Lazy People build beautiful structures that can scale effortlessly.
This video perfectly describes my experience working with people who are Not Like Me.
Basically, Se builds houses people can see, like real houses.
I’m joking.
Se sucks and Ni win but what if they can sell the business and they also don't have to do anything?
Won't Se buy Ni's invention with all the money he's made on the houses.....
Sometimes they do!!
I think sometimes as Ni's we may try and reinvent the wheel, when I worked at Biotech company my boss was always saying "John we don't have to reinvent the wheel!" Trouble was I found that much more exciting. I'll get my coat...
I think that you are actually an SLI (MBTY ISTJ). You would be surprised at how intuitive an Si dominant can appear. The only difference between an ISTJ and an INTJ or Si and Ni dom is that the former can understand intuition, while the latter lives in it.
The format of your videos are more representative of a sensing domminant than an intuitive one. You simplify things a lot. You don't get deep into subjects like an Ni dom would. Look at Michael Pierce or Harry from CPT, or even Asura Psych and you will see what an Ni dom or Ni secondary is like.
On the other hand, your style of expression is also somewhat lacking in the creative department. Everything is structured, but fun is kinda of a forced thing induced in your videos. It is obvious that this style of intuiting fun is not representative of your personality.
I have an ISTJ friend and at first I thought that he's an Ni dom because he understood what I was saying in my theorizing. After some time, I discovered the differences between us. He was more about what is than me. He told me about lockpicks, sport, and other practical stuff. He was pretty feeble and unexpressive and he played a lot of games like MOBA. So he was not an Se domminant since the practical stuff was more about making him conformable. However, even his style of communication was more grey. Not only in the expressive department, but also when it cames to the words used. His choice of words was very very common. Unlike my choice of words like categorical truth, the cycle of prosperity, etc. Plus, when I used common words, they always denoted an abstract meaning.
My mom which is an ISFJ seemed very intuting at first as well. Then I discovered as well that it was only on the surface. She listened to my intuting, but she did it only to make me feel uncomfortable. Her choice of intuting was more about Ne inferior in conjuction with Te PoLR. Thinking about what this person could have been doing based on the perceived evidence(Te PoLR). Her Ti was also strong. Compared to Ti inferior, her Ti was more precise and less rapid. A Ti inferior, ESFJ for example, has rapid Ti but the quality of it is just an illusion that is kept through the high rate of fire(Ni metaphor denoting a high use of it).
My mom Ti, on the other hand, was pretty good but it lacked evidence and she feared about what could be. One time I said to her that the cabinet would fall. She immediately panicked and believed what I had said. Then I told her that I was just joking and she felt relief.
However, an ISTJ doesn't have the same problem with Ne because it's not about objects or evidence since he has mastery over it.
Instead, it's about people. I noticed how you came to every single corner of the internet before to check what other people think about you, not what they could be doing. If that is not Ne inferior manifesting as a suppressed fear, then I don't know what Ne is.
Not only that, but you were quite offended and I heard that you did some other things to the one's who opposed your type.
I agree that the ones who typed you as ESFP have no brain(and don't know the difference between extroversion and introversion), and I have nothing against what you did with them, but it's stil evidence of your Ne oppositional.
Therefore, you seem to me that you are an ISTJ.
Ne+PoLR Te= fear of others behavior
Ne+PoLR Fe= fear of what people think
Why is that? Because both Te and Fe are dynamic informational elements. The difference between the two is that Te is about objects or even people as objects, while Fe is about thoughts. Te it's on an axis with Fi and it denotes the movement of the subject, be it human or object, while Fe its on an axis with Ti and it denotes the impact of the logos(word) basically.
Another example, my INFJ friend, and me.
Se+Te PoLR= fear of not accomplishing anything
Se+Fe PoLR= fear of disloyalty
As such, an INFJ is not how you all think. An INFJ is actually more likely to throw you off the bus if he can't calm you down using his Fe authority, or if you simply are not useful to his plans anymore and he thinks that you are an obstacle in achieving them. As such, he alienates everyone, and he can't accomplish anything since the only way to do this is to get help from others since he has Te PoLR! Thus fulfilling the prophecy.
Me, on the other hand, I fear about losing relations with close people because of their disloyalty(both of mine and others). For example, with the INFJ friend, if I see that we can't get on the same wavelength using logos, and he doesn't respond to the prejudices that he made against me, and he then starts to feel offended that I even dare to bring the evidence up, then I simply kill his ego from the inside using logos. If I see that I failed with Te authority at both defensive and offensive aspects, then I give up, and as such, the self fulfilling prophecy is complete.
However, to reach such a stage, I need a clear sign of ill intent towards not wanting to communicate and to get to a resolution of a problem. Or I simply became so fearful of losing that person, that I do it myself. Oh the irony.
Don't be something that you aren't. Embrace yourself as you are.
My ISTJ friend actually is in a better state than me. He has a girlfriend and he lives with her. Me on the other hand, I'm just philosophizing about the true nature of truth and how not knowing it affects every aspect of your life. As you can see, there's quite a difference between us. The former is more representative of stronger Se, while the latter is as intuitive as you can get and therefore, is more representative of Ni.
PS: Please don't delete me for my insubordination.