Compressing Biogas into BBQ bottle
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- Trials and tribulations of compressing biogas, had to film this over several days due to set backs and no time due to work but, we got there in the end. I apologise for the sound with all the rustling and pops etc, certainly not a cinematographer but i will see how i can rectify this. Stay tuned for more videos, subscribe, comment, im happy to answer questions where i can.
This is how they power the Thunder-Dome...These Aussies know their biogas.!
Just a tip for getting air out of your bottles, methane/natural gas is lighter than air, if you turn your container upside down and start to fill it the methane will rise to the top and push any air/oxygen out the bottom.
Quick - simple
perhaps once partially filled turn upside down and open the tap to let air out then continue filling, Do you think that would work?
You can chill /freeze the bottles as well.
@@Dragonfiregum that’s what I was going to say . Put the bottle in ice water .
we need a biogas revolution!
Power our stoves with biogas
Run generators off grid with biogas
Just stumbled across this video. I am looking forward to seeing more on this. Compressed storage has been my reason for not doing bio gas so far. Looks like problem solved.
Why are you not just putting the gas into the aircompressor instead of gas bottle ?
Agreed
@@andrewrobinson2869 Not everyone wants to run a compressor off the air-mattress or bladder storage.
I have not ventured into biogas yet for that reason: I just do not want the hassle of storing biogas at atmospheric pressure, THEN having to pressurise it for use.
I like the idea of using a air-compressor to at least partially fill an LPG cylinder, then use it like LPG.
@@Tassie-Devil same
@@Tassie-Devil Try using a fridge/freezer compressor, far more efficient.
Since being in lockdown because of covid 19 I have stumbled across biogas and my first thought was storage of the gas will be an issue. This is awesome! Thanks.
You might find a trompe to be interesting then. It uses flowing water to compress air, and in some cases it would work to also filter woodgas.
🏳🏳
This looks dangerous as hell. Your not supposed to over fill them tanks?
@@Mr0rris0 im pretty sure he knows how to look at a pressure gauge man.
Also LPG can run bike and cars! think about that! Build your Own LPG 4 wheel push bike or cart!
If you use an old fridge compressor you can get much more pressure and possibly get the gas to liquify.
Methane has to be at least -26 F before it would liquify. Not too hard compared to liquifying nitrogen. Definitely more approachable than LP
Beautiful. This process solves all the tar and mobility issues. The next step would be to use a high-pack compressor to a scuba tank.
Great internet. Giving solutions to all our dreams.
Very smart, dude. I love your video. Thank you for your share. I appreciate a video well done. Cheers mate.
LOL of Course! An air mattress. I never thought of that. Like the vid bro, off to watch your other vids
Got to be creative haha 👍
Though I do like the air mattress, the Hindenburg comes to mind...
@@danieltaurins86 When is the bouncy castle going up?
Great to see someone with the same idea . Cheers!
The air compressor is also a vacuum pump. Vacuum your tanks and keep them cool prior to filling.
When filling, the outlet of the compressor should go through a metal coil, cooled by water. Tank should be in ice water.
Flexi biogas an African start-up have a less intricate set up.
Enjoyed your video thanks.
Nice build. A little concern on the safety side of thing. the lack of flashpoints and flash arresters on a build like this coupled with a nuffy could make for a bad mix.
Can you explain further for a newbie
Dealing with less than 1m3 of biogas here and roughly compressing to 700kPa (110psi), is a fire arrester necessary? When compared to liquid propane cylinders, it is compressed at 2MPa, which is much higher, but our stove burners don’t really have a fire arrester or flashpoints either.
@@jimmypchacko I'm a bit new myself but here's my best example. think of a tube going into the bottom of a pipe filled with water, the gas going through it rises to the top of the pipe leading into another tube, and there's a fire at the end of the tube at the top. If the fire moves backwards into the tube then it goes in to water instead of a bottle of gas that will explode due to all the gas igniting at once.
Flash arresters are easy and always a good idea. Commercial ones aren't very expensive and easy to make homemade ones
So nice. Clear and simple. Tks sir
If you put the take in the freezer to get it cold then put it in ice to keep it cold. You should be able to get more gas in the tank.
Like that can i get liquid gas in my storage?
@@ss-sq1hn No to get the gas in to a liquid would require you lower the temperature down to fare lower then your freezer could get it and a regular take could not hold the pressure ones it was there.
So for example, after putting an empty tank in a freezer, the tank should be dipped in ice cold water while gas is being compressed? Am i right?
@@marcrogelnagales2400 If you evacuate the tank with vacuum then sucking some gas in it helps even more.
@@marcrogelnagales2400 Yes and if you can pole a vacuum on it even better. Don't let your compressor get to hot or it may cause an explosion. Good luck.
I suggest compressing the gas when the bladder is cold. This will reduce the kinetic energy in the gas compression and increase storage by 10-15%> if its freezing cold you may get an extra 15% as the compressor has more volume per unit ratio. Also there should be less thermal energy at the compression stage. I also recommend some mineral salt at the interstage between gas and stove. This will retain any excess moisture and also add color to the flame ..yellowish so it can be more visible at the burner. Rock salt should suffice.
Not bad thinking, it’s soon to get pretty cold here as we move into winter, so yer is imagine I would be a bit more in with cold gas.
I'm late to the party, but like the video.
A couple things:
sodium hydroxide is NAOH (Caustic Soda) ,
Bleach is NaClO (Sodium HypoChlorite Soln). Not sure which you prefer.
Also, I was concerned about the combustion point of biogas under pressure, and would like to suggest cooling your compressor with water while compressing the gas.
Thank you for sharing!
Exactly what I was thinking about doing.
Thank you very much very helpful
Few questions here:
1. What was the total volume of the gas filled into cylinder?
2. At what pressure was it filled?
3. how much time did it take to empty the gas by burning continuously?
any answer for this?
@@vincentlucero8367 200- 300 litres of gas, at 110 PSI, took an hour it was all in the vid bro
@@jadewilliams2846 hi sir can i reach you in WhatsApp?
@@jadewilliams2846 It was not a accurate measurement of time . This as he had a gas leak.
For smal, simple, home use, couldn't a person just put a weight on top the air mattress, so it's pressurized? Or do the same for any other pillow type pods? I would think that even an elastic band around it may work? Something that gives constant pressure on the bag?
Thank you for your video. Could you show us how you filter your biogas? We would love it!!! Thank you
He might not filter it, you can burn it without doing so .
Ive been waiting to see if anyone came uo with a good way to store bio gas. Look's you have the answer
Pass it through a radiator to cool it down before it enter the tank or else you might experience condensation in the tank after the gas is cool down.
Does metan condensation makes tank more dangerous, less useful or both ? Thank you.
@@adderalkebap4204 that's what I want to know
Dude DONT EVER use quick disconnect fittings with any fuel as they leak over time, and if they start allowing air to enter the system during pressurization
you are making a B O M B. The very best storage vessels I have used are inner tubes used on 18 wheeler tires, and they are easily joined together with
tubing or hoses for long lasting gas storage.
Thanks for confirming my thoughts.
Center Enamel offers anaerobic digesters and biogas storage tanks for biogas project. We design, manufacture and install biogas tanks for more than 30 years.
your contacts please am interested
@@rogerslema4199 - www.cectank.com/anaerobic-digesters-and-biogas-tanks/
Center Enamel do you make septic tanks that double as anaerobic digesters? That seems like the best solution for homeowners
Energy density of liquid propane is 270X it’s gaseous form. This video @120 psi is roughly energy density of 6.6x. Going further a regular propane tank has 440,000 btu while this would only have 29,000 btu compressed at @120psi. My math might be off a bit but those are rough numbers.
Thank you so much for the video !
Safe as houses. Id suggest adding a cold bath(ice and salt) to chill the bottle. Get a lot more into it, gas pressure drops to 0kpa at -42°C. Maybe even go so far as to cool the pump head of the compressor for longer filling time before overheating.
Nice job thank you! I.am getting it, just need to see what pieces of valve to buy!
The biogas must be dried and cleaned of H2S to store it like that. The pressure needs to be regulated as propane liquefies at a lower pressure than methane will. Also the coefficient of expansion is higher so you will want more head in the bottle. It's better to use the bigger size bottles. At 500 liters at stp of propane you will want about 70^ of that for a safe fill of methane in the tank.❤
I skipped all this gaseation process by just shitting directly to my barbeque grill and then lighting the turd up! What a delighted natural smell over the sirloins it gaves to the barbeque audiences with their exclusive wines and ties with!
whats the explosive risk with using a combustible gas in a conventional commpressor? Would a diphram pump be better? (Albeit more expensive)
Not enough oxygen. No risk
I've been thinking about how to compress bio gas for a while and I envisaged a problem with using an air compressor like you have, that being the heat generated by the compression, but using a heat exchanger would solve that, however I thought about another potentially serious problem that might occur, especially as the gas volume drops in the primary storage (the air bed), this would be that outside air could potentially be drawn into the compressor cylinder past the piston rings from the crankcase via the crankcase breather. Any ingress of air in this way could lead to spontaneous ignition like a diesel engine, resulting in catastrophic failure, so I'm wondering could a diaphragm type pump be better suited to do the same job.
Refrigerator or sealed compressor
@@midnightblue69 yeah I came across a video last week showing how to make a refilling kit using a fridge pump, and a few other bits and pieces, fairly straightforward
This is very interesting. more videos needed. what if you use hard plastic containers to counter the corrosion issue?
Great stuff pioneering
I love this! I see problems with the wood gas not burning hot enough.I’m very curious to see if you attached an oxygen bottle with the wood gas (like you would a propane torch to cut metal) would allow to combination to burn hotter more efficient/effectively and allow you to use stock size fittings and decrease the gas use and allow your utilities to work at normal operating ranges like they did with lng, or lp.
The reason as to why the gas isn't burning hot enough might be due to the percentage of carbon monoxide present. If that carbon monoxide were to weigh heavier than the usefull methane, for example, perhaps there's a way of separating both, without having to go through that much effort
great video and interesting. Just one thing. Sodium Hydroxide is not bleach its Caustic soda - like in drain cleaner. I have seen steel wool in a tube used to get rid of the unwanted component.
To clean up the bio gas use a filter that has some steel wool and some NaOH bleach solution to destroy the SO2. Then filter through some charcoal to remove some unwanted compounds. Next compress to a tank that can purge moisture and have the gas flow through a dryer and CO2 scrubber made of MgSO4 and dry NaOH. Then have a fine filter and compress into the tank. You will be left with clean methane of about 95% purity about 5% CO2.❤
Great video, love your experimenting spirit!
I am thinking if I can use a diving compressor to get the gas on 200bars bottled..
How you think the compressor designed for air will take the gas?
Maybe I can build a temperature safety switch, add cooling and build a condensation section before entering the tank..
Any thoughts? Thanks !
I'm trying to heat my garden house on CNG. Scored a 126 liter CNG tank. But to bring the gas to the correct pressure for standard natural gas equipment (30 mbar), pressure reduction is necessary: CNG in a tank can have a pressure of around 200 bar! How to resolve that?
saludos desde argentina mi amigo muy bueno
Are you using the lp fittings or did you have to change those to work with the biogas? I was wondering if getting this into a bottle was possible! Great video!
Hi, is there any risk of explosion using that type of compressor? It has a piston right? For example if you forget to change or add new oil, is it a risk? Or does the absence of oxygen minimize it?
absence of oxygen will. just keep everything cool. I would use a oxygen meter to make sure there is no outside air being compressed with a flammable gas..
biggest risk if there's oxygen being compressed and using the gas with a stove and it back firing and exploding the tank..
Some valid info /Thank you.
Any chance you could make a video about removing the hydrogen sulfide, CO2, and moisture from the biogas, showing how to create the items needed to remove them?
Moisture could be removed using a refrigeration system
Your light
Bubbling through water before compressing removes the CO2
Bubbling and wire wool not stainless steel, packed into a 3 foot 2 inch diameter pipe feed in from bottom and out from top. This should remove all moisture . The hydrogen sulphide can be scrubbed out using activated charcoal filters. These also prevent blowback from the outlet pipe if the flame propagates back.
GOOD info
Isn’t it possible to just run a hose from the air mattress, and go right to the propane stove? (I think the orifice needs to be enlarged, though, for the gas stove to work properly, eh?!?) Good video, as usual! Thanks, brother!
Thanks for the video! I have to say that your facial hair looks like a very good ratio of oxygen and fuel.
Good job
Nice vid. Thumbs up.
If you addressed gas jetting I missed it. Did you have to modify the gas orifice, or just use either a propane or NG nozzle?
I need more videos on this about biogas as light.Thank you.
Also chill the tank in a ice bath while filling so its easier to fill. As it warms you'll notice the tank pressure go up.
An old larg belt drive compressor doesn't warm as much
Any experience using damp wood ash to upgrade the biogas / filter out the CO2?
Cool setup tho!
Don't use lock tight use Rector seal for gas.
I wonder if putting the tank into a vacuum prior to filling it would help
Unless you are replenishing the same material (air, chemicals or combustibles) you MUST purge the tank, vacuum works best, if your container can take it.
@@arenotdiy7280 would you use a cleaning agent like AC line set flush prior to putting it under vacuum? Thanks for the help
dont you have to remove sulfur from the gas, or how are these metal particles looking ling like after 2 years of usage?
Maybe a fan ontop ofnyhe compressor heat fins to help disapate heat quicker.
IF you can keep the temp of the bottle under 50 degrees then, "in theory" you could get about 280 litres of gas into that bottle
just keep in mind that propane has a vapour pressure of about 130psi at 25 degrees C but methane is about 670psi but the bottle will vent at about 250psi, so you will never get it to a liquid state, but it is still a lot more than the propane in liquid form. Dont blow yourself up. putting the bottle in ice water may help, just a thought. Other than my concerns for your safety this looks great You may want to look at using liquid thread seal instead of the tape. you can get it at bunnings. The other thing limiting you may be the compressor itself just not strong enough to get higher
Please tell me for how many hours can we use the gas filled according to you.approx
Maybe it would be good to put a condenser on the output to cool the gas.
Put the bottle in the coldest freezer you can get. If you manage -80C, you could get the gas to condense, under pressure.
Maybe I'm just dreaming. Lol
You are very brave man 😅 i think compressors life will be quite short, in plant that i was building, controlling the quality of gas was one of the problems. You need to measure % quite often. Most likely your compressor will be eaten by corrosion quite fast. But cool experiment.
"ish" - A precise unit of measure used when working with high pressure
You can use iron filing or steel wool as a scrubber.
muy bueno mi amigo saludos desde argentina
Thanks
Am I the only one concerned about the spark from the compressor igniting the gas? Or am I over thinking it?
No oxygen
Smart answer👌
All I am saying is even a small leak in that threading could really mess up your day.
No. A small leak would still not do anything, you need optimal gas to O2 ratio.
Hello, I want to know what is the most appropriate amount of gas pressure inside an empty tube, please respond
I seem to recall that an iron sponge filter will scrub out that hydrogen sulfide. That and a carbon filter should eliminate odor. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Yes, this looks dangerous, without removing the sulfur the tank will corrode.
This is great, just wondering if we had a plastic bottle rather than metal would the gas have any effect on it, would there be any sort of degradation to the plastic material.
Brilliant! Can you hook one of these bottles up to your car next please?
Love this. Any updates about how it has gone using over time?
You shouldn't fill any propane cylinder past 80 % to allow for expansion
how long did it take you to fill that air mattress with biogas?
Apparently less than a day
Nice
I think it's much easier to compress gas if you freeze the cylinder.
You are using normal propan grill? And compressing biogas into the bottle is little bit dangerous 😬 but it works, thanks. Your bottle is about 15kg? And you commpress 500 liters in it?
If that works with an air mattress it should work with a waterbed mattress. Thanks man
Why not use bicycle pump or use a tank that slips into another tank that holds water as a seal this way you loose none
We put nose weaner rings on cattle to stop them from suckling on the cows.
Main thing I'd be concerned over is the hydrogen content. On the highlander side of say 15%-20% by volume, your best bet is to not compress it beyond 50psi. At around 150psi, it can autoignite: that's how an experimental plant was turned into a crater in NM or NV, I dont remember which. They were trying to find new ways of storing pure H2. Best way to do it is similar to acetylene using carbon (graphite), but that poses a different issue altogether.
If memory serves me right, NASA had a substance they discovered that enabled H2 storage in smaller tanks, but you basically had to irradiate the source material to create it, and good luck not having the feds show up on that one haha.
How much hydrogen do you think is in that tank that flowed for an hour.
By chilling the Lp tank. Say nestling it in ice. Could the biogas condense .
To get more volume into the tank. Would the pressure increase once filled to your systems capacity or reached it maximum ability .
And removing it from the ice crib. To warm to ambient temp?
Ok im on a beng watch lol
Well,how do you keep the device save when it work，especially the biogas is methane which it is hard to compress that totally different with propane which the main componenet with LPG and you sure that the BBQ would not to blow up when you compressing biogas?
U should have weighed the can empty then show us the weight of the can wen full so we can see the weight in millilitres or kg
Its compressed gas so it wont be a huge amount of volume. If it was super cooled to a liquid like propane it would hold more. Should stick the tank in dry ice or something to see if that works.
@@shawn2789 enough pressure/low temperature would convert gas to liquid….
Yes I would love to know the weight of the gas able to be contained within the tank.
@@jessewilson8676that pressure is not attainable. There is as reason propane is supercooled.
Your compressing a gas not a liquid. The weight should be nothing .
This is very helpful. Thank you! Are there tanks that might be able to handle the corrosive gas? Glass lined, with brass fittings maybe? I am wondering how long it will take before the little bit of corrosive gas that makes it past scrubbers causes a failure. If a tank were to burst, would the gas rush out and maybe catch fire, even explode? Just trying to comprehend worst case scenario. Thanks.
Earthen Hand sorry mate no idea, but I can say, I’ve had a 45kg tank with gas sitting in it for a couple of months now with no fault, but it is important to scrub the gas to remove the nasties, if your gas smells don’t compress it, in a later vid I add another scrubber using kitty litter and more steel wool to remove water vapour and more smell 👍
Will it help if one puts a watertrap bubbler between the compressor and the tank being filled to combat any corrosive gases? Perhaps also between the filled tank and the barbecue burner? Just thinking about any possible benefits and safety?
Apologies. Missed that the scrubbing has been given attention already. Thanks.
@@danieltaurins86hello, please, can I have your contact number or email.
So how are you purging the air from the propane tank before charging it with methane?
take that one way check valve off the side of the air tank and add it before the gauge and you will be able to get more than 125psi in the tank and gas wont run back into the compessor
Hello, How can I get the compressor here in India
Pressurizing into a propane tank the pressure will not be very much maybe 150 psi? But if you want to use that gas to run a vehicle it has to be 3600psi do I have that right?
Hi I just wanted to know what the biogas hot water system in the background at 13.29min into your video was? Also is it Australian use approved? Where did you get it? Great video by the way!
Can you write the difference between the weight of the empty gas tank and the weight after filling the gas
hi mate my wife wondering what's the name of the goose in the picture ? 😊
When you are compressing gas if you put a condenser coil before it goes into the tank wouldn't that lower the pressure so you can get more in?
How come your not using a water separator between the mattress and the compressor ???
Hw many days d cylinder can be used in d house
How many psi does the compressor hold. You could use that as the bio gas tank I guess
Love your channel
Sounds like a good ol kiwi accent there bro, good video using the air compressor. Next biogas video try using duck shit ,I see you've got a few helpers there😜
Aussie.
Try vacuuming the tank down with a vacuum pump and it will suck most the gas in when u connect it to gas bag
Good stuff.
Now that the principle is proven ... Next (to save electrical AC energy )...
would you try using a 12v DC tyre inflating compressor running off
either a solar panel (s) and / or a car battery ?
Just thinking of total grid independence !
Cheers
I think I have a DC tyre pump floating around somewhere, will have to look at its specs and the necessary fittings required, I don’t have spare panels or an mppt controller floating around, but the concept would work, deep cycle battery would be good too.
Did you weigh the tank and see how much gas you pumped in, in pounds ? Also you can use teflon tape for the threads.
It's not very much. You can't liquefy methane at these pressures like you can propane, so the weight is something like 1-2% of if propane had been in the cylinder.
@@Uejji that means it will more or less equivalent to propane or lpg gas is it.,?