I'm not black but I believe that every recording gospel artist should be paid 😕. We all have bills to pay and we have to eat too, just like doctors and everyone else 😕.
I've played for churches without compensation requirements for decades. I did it not because I was working for the Lord......It was because I was a plum fool, and knew no better. You will be taken advantage of, if you allow it.
@@rayjgold well, if you are DOING it for "appreciation"--then its not ministry and you should most definitely head on over to the bar. God loves a cheerful giver--not those who give/do begrudgingly. For the record, ministry is SERVICE. Nothing more and nothing less. It's NEVER about what you can receive, rather what you can GIVE. This entire video and the majority of comments underneath it are a complete embarrassment to the body of Christ and explains a lot to be most candid. Matthew 20:28 is pretty clear. If HE didn't come to BE served, but TO serve--may I ask who are WE to expect different?! Folks are out here entitled and all the while, souls are being lost. We must do better. Eternal souls are on the line. That's what we need to be counting. Not pennies on the dollar. Jehovah Jireh ALWAYS provides and if you've been in the Lord any length of time you already know. Use your gifts for HIM--and He will take care of you. Praying your day is blessed!
@@d.c.4706 Read carefully, and without filters. No one desires to do a work that no one appreciates.......period! If you are a cook and there is one meal that no one likes....you stop cooking it.....and instead, cook the meals that everyone like.. Now does this mean that you cook for the appreciation, of those that are eating, because you prefer to cook the meals that everyone like? I think not. Everyone desires to be appreciated......but this does not mean that they do it for the appreciations. It is just clear, the difference in how the religious treat those that work for them, and how the world treats them. I am thanked and appreciated for things I feel i shouldnt be (because of how simple or mundane it is), in the world.... and when I go in the church, and put in hard, tiring, stressful work, I get people like you saying, I deserve nothing....not even appreciation for it.....and if I desire appreciation, I am wrong for the very thought. Your thought process, is the very problem.
@@d.c.4706 Now for Truth. We must separate religion and religious activities, from the worship of God, in Spirit and in truth. "24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;" If you still equate the worship of God with what we do in these temples....you have more important things to worry about than whether or not musicians are paid in the temples. I pray that it is God's will that you find the truth and be set free....and that your day is blessed as well.
Ask the ministers or pastors if they will serve without pay. Lol. I got fooled by that don't charge the church for your gift. My piano lessons cost more than my pay. I know Berklee and Juilliard teach gospel music... I played fot a small church one year for free, the membership increased, they padded pews, new pulpit furniture snd new piano. They had an anniversary program for me. I received a brown lunch bag with $33.00 in coins. So I saved it and gsve it to the other musician who was getting paid on her anniversary. Lol
Your getting off topic, The pastor is the shepherd of that house. The Bible says how shall they hear, not how shall they play, see God ordain the pastor, he did not ordain a musician.
I've been a member and a musician at a black AND white church. Compensation is an issue in alot of churches. All I can say is, when I'm not there on the drums I get looks and words. I have a life OUTSIDE of what I do in church. I'm not saying I NEED to get paid. But if you don't pay me, relax your expectations because I'm a father, husband, and more. However, if you're paying the rest of the band, please don't overlook the drummer.
I was a bassist at a black church for 15 years. Rehearsal on Wednesday service on Sunday... paid with vacation days. It was “service” But, bottom line it was still a JOB. I can say that After my years of service and “church experiences” I probably won’t ever do it again.
Why should you even consider payment. You are using your talent to glorify God and draw people close to God. To solicit or complain about money is an affront to the Spirit of God.
If you are looking to be paid monetarily by the church something is not right with you spiritual. Apostle Peter reveals those who have this mindset in Acts chapter 8
@@ericallensr3435 being a musician is not easy, if it were, everybody would be one, it takes years of dedication, practice, trial and error and frustration to become a successful musician, there are professional musicians all over the world who get paid to play their instruments, they've put in years of hard work and spent thousands of dollars to get where they are in music, therefore they have a right to ask for compensation, if you think you're going to get Joel Osteen or TD Jakes or Hezekiah Walker's musicians to play for free, think again, the musicians who want to get paid are typically the ones who do music for a living, some musicians charge by the hour, others charge by the song, there's a difference between someone volunteering to play for a church and a pastor hiring someone to play for a church, when a pastor hires a professional musician, he becomes his employer, if that musician joins that church, the pastor becomes his employer and his pastor
That’s very true but some people won’t come to hear the Hymns. In some places that a big reason why they stop singing them. No offense and I’m not disagreeing with you but every action has a consequence. Again no offense.
I agree to a certain extent. I like your reasoning for hymns, but you can write songs that are not hymns that are theologically sound. The problem is some people get caught up in trying to sell a song or entertain people, instead of writing something to help bring the people to a true encounter with God
@@jamesc.sampsonjr.5791 Because hymns are congregational songs to be sung by the church together. There would be no need for a praise team that you'd have to pay. Plus the hymns are more sound Biblically. I was thinking this in my mind but I only typed half of it.
Some of y’all underestimate how much work goes into honing your craft and being a musician and it shows with the low-key accusations that they aren’t saved and aren’t grateful for the gifts God gave them. If y’all feel so strongly about that, quit YOUR job and go volunteer for the church full time. And the Lord will provide.
@A Rare Sophisticate All of thee above! Being a levite is not the same as making chicken dinners, or standing outside directing traffic. It takes a certain level of skill, practice, training, and education to be able to do this. Countless times churches were not feeling the spirit because the free praise and worship leader does not have to skill and the oil that a trained singer with a love for God and a consciousness of the move of the spirit during service can bring. It hit different when you understand how to flow in the spirit and you can go further because you have spent time perfecting your God given talent.
Man you are so on point!!! And some of these accusers are and would be the first ones angry and complaining when the musician is late or a no show. Not to mention how much the musician invests in his/her craft and equipment!!! I personally make investments on my own!! Why? Because I want the music to sound AWESOME!! It’s a process and it is worth it!! But no one eve sees what the musician invests in their equipment and gift!!! I know drummers who buy their own drums to play-- in church!! Why?? They know what sounds good!! And they don’t want to settle for just anything. Not to mention rehearsals and practicing; while still holding a full time job. And ppl have the absolute audacity to complain about musicians getting paid!!! Lord help us!!!
Thank you !! They’re comparing other jobs in the church to being a musician which is ridiculous ! An ushers job is very important but an usher doesn’t have to prepare mon-fri for a Sunday service !
This is amazing, as a musician I've been taken advantage by churches for years under the label of serving. The Bible states that the church is supposed to take care of the musicians, so that the musicians can only do service. The churches had fallen short
The Bible let us know that God will not forget your labor of love. If you were doing it with the right heart God will bless and has been blessing you. The pay from God super cedes any amount of compensation from man. Be grateful and look at as God allowing you to sharpen your talent instead of being taken advantage of.
My concern is the health of our black musicians and singers because most are over weight and dealing with diabetes and high blood pressure. Can the BLACK CHRUCH talk about that?
Truth! 💯 The musician in the Church I grew up in was overweight and he passed away a few years ago do to complications of Diabetes. We have got to do better.
Until the church gets out of the mindset of worshipping their musicians, vocal or instrumental, this "gig" mentality will never leave. We are leaving worship in the hands of people who are not necessarily led by the Holy Spirit. We have become an entertainment industry breeding the likes of Dorinda Clark Cole who feel free to disrespect other musicians with impunity. I am a classically trained musician who also plays by ear and can play easily in all keys accept 2 and it has always been my mindset to use my all for the glory of God. He gave the resource.
This is sad. Played for over 20 yrs for free. Preached for free. And God has met every need plus some! What if God said I will take away life from you if you can't pay for it? ...
You say this because you believe playing in the church equals playing for God. I no longer think this is the case. We play what the people desire to hear, when they desire to hear it......we play to get the people in whatever mood they want to be in.....we play to give them a rhyme and beat to dance to. I only play for the Lord......When I am playing alone with my headphones on.
@@harmonyeternalhe fact that God was not welcomed in the conversation far as this clip is concerned. It’s about “self” and not about God. About receiving and not giving… and… “the black church”????
I'm not a musician but I have been on a trustee board and we dealt with musicians. The church was always Changing musicians. I inquired why. The pastor said they want more money. Black churches do treat musicians very poorly. Most pastors want to be paid we'll. And they get their money. Now I agree you pay according to their training. And Pastors need to let the musicians do their job we don't need the Pastor selecting all the music. That's what we pay the musicians for. Upgrade your instruments.
You don't know how happy I would be to walk into church and see a new drum set. I get paid, though only enough to pay my phone bill (50$ exactly). As much as I would love to get paid better I think I'd be even happier if they actually had a good drum set.
No actually, NONE of them should be paid. Matthew 10:8 is pretty clear. Real kingdom business is about SERVICE. And while these folks sit and talk about being PAID-souls are being lost because their priorities are mixed up.
@@d.c.4706 I agree..not all but a lot of servers of the church got away biblically about serving in the church..it's getting to a dollar dollar bill thang..this is a deep topic
I pray you’re really not a bishop because you are so ignorant to the word of God!! You need to be taught whoever you are! This is why people perish, for the lack of knowledge. You are a prime example!
@@d.c.4706 You are not reading your Bible, go read about how tithes are spent in the Bible, for the widows, strangers, Levites( workers in the church), the poor! These musicians should be paid. No one can place a value on the talent and skill of an individual but you can definitely show appreciation and make efforts towards the welfare!
It’s a spirit over black ppl generational when it comes to money notice how it’s always a problem and cringe feeling ppl get quiet we really need to break this curse
@@missnene9157 I’m not making an argument for or against paying musicians here, but just wanted to point out that comparing an usher to a musician is not a valid or fair comparison. An usher doesn’t have nearly the obligation to ministry that a musician has…especially in matters that involve doing ministry outside of standard service times. Whereas an usher probably doesn’t usher every Sunday…they have a rotation…a musician has to play every service…including mid-week services, revivals, convocations, etc. The average parishioner picks and chooses which nights they want to attend. But musicians ‘must’ be there every time the door is open. This doesn’t include the mid-week rehearsals that they must attend. Many churches have several choirs and praise teams. And when pastor travels they want their musician to go with them as well. Obligations to the ministry often make it difficult to maintain a 9-5, fulfill family obligations, and still be what the church needs. Also, the usher doesn’t have to purchase anything. They just come in and stand on there post. While most churches do have some musical equipment, most musicians have to have and use at least some of there own stuff. My keyboards range in price from 1200 to 4000…not including wiring that has to be replaced periodically…computers to run DAW software and click tracks…etc. This also doesn’t include the additional private time the musician has to take for lessons and personal practice time…things an usher doesn’t experience. Musicians definitely should love the Lord and should be dedicated to Him first, but we can’t ignore the work that most have to put in that goes far beyond what most other parishioners have to consistently give. Just something to consider. Much love, Shalom
@@meatyeye well I’ve been a dancer in the church for more than 2 decades and my obligation is just as intense and sometimes more intense than musicians. Did I get paid? NO! All those intense dance moves have beaten me up over the years, learning new material and sometimes given a days notice to learn new music and dance moves, traveling, thousands spent on garments and flags, all day rehearsals, being up in the middle of the night practicing, etc etc. I do it because I LOVE GOD and I’m grateful to be gifted with the ability to dance. Oh yes, and I’ve been professionally trained. Not only do I not get paid but everything I do comes out of my own pocket and I have no complaints nor regrets. If musicians want to get paid they need to go audition for Bishop Jakes or some other mega ministry or audition for a professional band.
because they control the money and if anyone challenges them they get rid of them most of them not only get paid some even a percentage of whatever the offering is, some get allowances for food, cars, and housing and then complain about paying their musician $300 who works as equally as hard maybe even harder while they drive a benz
The Bible actually speaks about paying Pastors. When you Bless them, you Bless God. REAL PASTORS do not charge. Why? Because REAL FOLLOWERS have FIRST, The Heart of God which leads them to tap in the spirit and God reveals certain things about the heart of their Pastor and they sow what God leads them to sow. To sum this all up, we need to be SERVANTS rather than BASTARDS in the spirit. We have to think... What if God charged us every time we sinned, something like a body part? Every time you sinned, you a finger had to be chopped off. We’d be glad to serve with NO problem. So in reality, it depends where your heart is. If you’re doing it for God, He’ll pay you. I promise you. I’m a living witness. I don’t charge to play. Because I am a Servant of God. And don’t you know people walk up to me in stores and Bless me with finances? People volunteer and pay my bills. Why? Because I told God, “Let my gift carry Your Glory & Anointing, that when people see & hear me, their lives will be changed forever.” In return... Blessings just fall. When I Preach, I MOST DEFINITELY won’t charge. Where in the Bible did you see Jesus charge the people? He did the will of His Father & HE WAS BLESSED. Just trying to help.
I'm a preacher and musician. I believe both should be paid not because of my personal belief but because the bible speaks of both being paid. It's in Numbers, Nehemiah, Chronicles, and Mathew, just to name a few. The only problem I have is the personality of some preachers and musicians. Some just about charge you for speaking to them and are some of the most arrogant people you meet.
As a college-trained, concert organist who has served in Catholic, AME, Baptist, COGIC, Methodist, Non-Denomination, and now Episcopal Church with congregations that were white, black and those in between, I would’ve love to have been in the room. Sister in the green hit it on the head. Mic drop!
You pay for your janitor, repair contractors, utilities and anyone else that provides a skilled service for your ministry. Pay your musicians so they can survive! You'll never have a strong music ministry otherwise.
Understandable, but if that's their way of living, bringing in income as a regular job or business outside of the church, but the church needs their business to keep up with the maintenance of the building that's a different ball game. Some (not all) of These musicians try to make a living off the church alone. Too lazy to get a job, won't stay in the service to hear the preacher, don't give tithes or offerings but want to be compensated by the church?? I believe if anything they're the ones that need not to be paid. However, if you have faithful people who show themselves worthy and dedicated to the ministry they should be taken care of. There's a difference in prostituting your gifts (for people) and giving service with your gifts (unto the Lord).
But also the church is responsible for doing it out of order and context because, they were so desperate to have musicians some have settled for anybody and even been willing to pay just to have musicians for the functioning of the service and to feel more adequate having musicians. They sold themselves short to folk who weren't really dedicated to that particular ministry and they give themselves to the highest bidder.
@@andreyounger9681 too lazy to get a job? What if being a musician is their job. There are people who play instruments and sing for a living. Why would your service be any different from their gigs? They still have to take the time to practice and learn the music.
@@andreyounger9681 reasoning like this is why so many of our churches have high musician turnover rates, when a musician gets hired at a white church, he or she typically stays there several decades because white churches know how to compensate their musicians, being a musician is a job, it takes a lot of hard work, frustration and dedication to even become barely good enough to carry a church service as a musician, if being a musician was easy, everybody would be one, why do you think there is a such thing as professional musicians? Do you think John p kee or Hezekiah Walker's musicians play for free? Think again
@@andreyounger9681 those are called hobbyists, not musicians, a musician will always be 10 times better than a hobbyist, a hobbyist is the one that makes $50 a week at some rinky dink church above a corner store with 12 people who come every week, a musician makes at least $250 a week
I had a medical profession outside of church although I'm a talented musician. My happiness comes from being needed to play and they tried to pay me but I refused payment. My salary from my job was more than adequate. Today I'm a member of a church where I've never been asked to fill in from time to time, I don't charge, I just want to play that is my own personal enjoyment. So I continue to play to the four walls at home.
I think this video is mostly about music as an only job. Playing for a church is very time consuming and stressful and demanding.......It is not easy to be asked to play on a schedule while be reprimanded any time you are late or dont know a song etc..... for free. Especially when you dont have any other job.
Travis…..It is your right to relinquish pay but scripturally, it’s not the church’s right to neglect payment to the musicians…..Especially if they are skilled/professional.
I feel It's economic also... More would play in service if they were getting paid sufficiently at their jobs. And most churches want to ensure certain people are in place every Sunday and on time.
@@itsnickole that’s why these saved folk should have discernment with who you’re hiring. Praise God, as a minister of music I didn’t have that problem.
So when you actually learn that the musician isn’t supposed to play the entire time the pastor is preaching and when you learn how a sermon works, the better you’ll understand things. A sermon is taught in 3 major parts which is “Information, Revelation, and Inspiration” and the pastors don’t need us til the inspiration because if we play too soon, we’ll cut off the listeners ability to hear the revelation. Meaning they’ll shout but they won’t get the point. We aren’t needed til it’s time for the inspiration because now the listeners gotten the point of the message, so now let’s praise him
I see valid points on both sides. But I love Jesus, pay my tithes and love singing/serving in the choir! To the woman in the green on the panel, we were taught to disrespect and mistrust each other. Because we don’t help each other like we should. So showing each other Respect and kindness is still something we have to conquer! I make sure I smile at my brother/sister in church or in the streets. Lastly, this discussion was beautiful, because it was very civil. Nobody went off, nor acted ugly!
PS. I've been in church and in the Lord almost all of my life ,since age 5yrs.and now about to turn 61 yrs.,and I've always seen these matters of musicians done in decent and in order, there was never a problem with whom was using there gifts for the house of the Lord as a service unto the Lord and whom was the paid professional that the Pastor had hired, if that church lacked having that gift. It was never no confusion, but now days everything is about money, how sad and the house of God should not be that way. God will provide jobs and whatever we need. But God's House is not the workforce it's a place of worship. And the tithes and offerings that come in should go right back to the storehouse God's House. And it's nothing wrong with giving a person a love gift or donation now and then. But it's still a place of worship, God's House. 🙏❤️
@@jaydakid4208 I’m specifically speaking about the “home church”. I lead the praise team and an evangelist at my home church. Never could I charge at my home. That’s not up for debate for me. It’s the gift God has given me to edify the saints, and I love doing it. And God has made my territory large for it, it’s a heart thing.
1st Chronicles 15:22 And Chenaniah, chief of the Levites, was for song; he instructed about the song, because he was skillful. Biblically, musicians and worship leaders should be paid because they are fulfilling the role of the Levites. Levites were not given an inheritance of land but were sustained from the offerings of the other tribes. Economically, if your church doesn’t want to pay musicians then don’t! But be satisfied with whatever musicians your church develops and remember that whatever they do is their gift. The reason musicians are paid is because the demand for skillful musicians dictates their pay. Plus, churches want them as employees so that they can be required to play when and what they want them to play.
YOU BETTER READ ABOUT WHAT IS A LEVITE...HE WAS A MINISTER WHO WAS IN CHARGE 'ALSO' FOR THE MUSIC AND NOT THE MUSIC ONLY..STOP TRYING TO USE SCRIPTURES TO JUSTIFY THE BUFFOONERY.
I have been a church drummer for over 30yrs. I've just started getting paid to play around 4yrs ago. I remember being a teenager and I was one of two drummers in a nice size church, and the pastor would pay me $5 every once in a while. I've never asked for a dime to play drums. Even now if I get asked to play, I get asked..How much do you charge? My answer is always, whatever you can afford to bless me with is cool. Notice I said whatever you can (Afford) to pay me. I word it that way, so that the Holy Spirit starts talkin and won't let them be cheap, and pay less than what they can again afford...LOL! I play because I absolutely love playing, and I give my gift back to God everytime I hop on the set. I don't have a problem with musicians being paid, but it's charging these ridiculous fees, when they haven't been on NOBODY'S album! Name ain't on NOBODY'S album credits! Lol One more thing, if Pastors have an issue with paying their musicians, then don't take a salary from the church! The Pastor would take a salary, for preaching a word, that the Lord gave him for free! Taking a $200,000/ year, while only preaching one Sunday morning service, and a Wed night bible study...NAW PLAYA! Also church musicians need to go back to living right, being saved and holy. Even the musicians are ministering, and this is a whole different mission than playing secular music. We have too many church singers, and musicians ministering dirty!
THAT PART ABOUT NOT BEING TREATED RIGHT IN THE BLACK CHURCH STRUCK A PROVERBIAL " DIMINISHED CHORD" IN MY EARS! I WAS PLAYING FOR THIS PARTICULAR CHURCH THAT HAD AN EXTREMELY COLD ATMOSPHERE; THEREFORE, I HAD TO LEAVE. I COULDN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE! PRAYERS NEEDED AND REQUESTED😠🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏❤
I play keyboard for the church where I have been a member for my whole life. We are a small congregation but what we lack in size, we make up for in love. They pay me $25, but they treat me well. I'm 15 years old right now and I want to be able to play for additional churches, but I've already said if I do, I will not play for churches where people do not treat me or others well, no matter how much they may be able to pay me.
I dont agree music does not make a service...you go to church to hear the word of God which is able to save your souls not the music this the problem in the church today most think cause they did a lot of shouting and dancing but didnt hear the WORD if there was no preaching you didnt have Church you had a good time...the early church didnt have none of this and there is a big difference in the power of the two churches..if God gave u a Gift use it for God Glory to serve one another in praising God you will recieve your reward in heaven God put gifts in the church for edification and worshipping him ..how u gonna charge for something that aint yours????GOD GAVE IT..unsave Folk will only entertain and complain do it for GOX
@@heisreal445 amen!! That’s the entire problem hirelings think that they actually can make or break a church!! This is why I say these organized businesses that call themselves the temple for worshipping Christ will answer for allowing these fake believers of the Word of God will be served their recompense along with these hires luciferians who don’t take God’s service seriously and don’t reverence his name (Jesus)!
It’s not the musicians or singers that make a church move... that’s the first thing wrong torch there. The Holy Spirit is what moves anything. That’s the problem I see with musicians in church. God gets the glory , it’s not a rock concert.
*Ofcourse it's not the musicians that make the church move, that's FAR from the point hes trying to make. If you didn't get his context, it's clearly because you aren't a musician.*
There is a difference between talent and gifts. The bible says your gifts and callings are irreversible. A talent requires to be enhanced by going to school and if this is your livelyhood then yes, get paid. However, God's gifts allows us to serve HIM freely because we didn't acquire this gift from a man or woman. Many people claim to have a relationship with God, they know HYMS BUT DON'T KNOW HIM. playing is just a job, they have no real connection with God.
Many are not in obedience: From Jesus mouth: Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. Matthew 10:8 KJV
Frying chicken is different than being a musician, we all can cook, we all can't sing or play an instrument> As a psalmist my church would never have to pay me for singing, it's my home. I wouldn't charge my natural father for doing what I am suppose to do at home..... I live there, get fed there.... same thing in my the spiritual home. But, everyone else pays, unless the Lord says otherwise
What happened to rendering our talents and I'll give to God he gave them to us freely we need to give to God freely what happened to the church what happened to real Christians who love the Lord the music had become so worldly to it's not considered church music help us Lord help us to run unto you everything you have given to us help us to do your will and not our own will to make money and to live off of something that we supposed to minister too to minister that's all I have to say but it hurts it hurts to see what we have come to God bless you that's why I believe Jesus is coming soon to destroy the works of the devil to destroy the works that he has put and come in the church and sneaking simple ways do you really love the Lord do you really consider him everything to you then give what you can your talent your time and if God see that there's a way to reimburse you or to give you something this is not your job as a regular job this is what you sacrifice for God I'm sorry if I'm sounding wrong but my heart is hurt with what's going on in the church help us Lord help us to do what's right help us to understand oh my God help us Lord help us for when the church begin everybody gave to the poor and to people that we had to hide from from the church being persecuted so bad and it's going to be persecuted again looking to Jesus the yacht and finisher of our face have mercy Lord I pray that we all look for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ believe on him believe he died for our sins that he rose again on the third day and that he's coming back again are we ready.
Not so sister, please search the Scripture using hermeneutics and that textual criticism! Music isn't played inside of temples! Keep in mind, that you had inner and outer space!
This was an interesting conversation. I noticed that many on the panel were quite younger than myself. I forgot to say that I am a musician, played at many churches, but primarily my home church since 1978. I studied music at the U. Of Mo.-St. Louis and at Gambling State. So, I understand the business side. I am curious about their spiritual involvement in what they're doing.
Church has always been from the beginning , the early church, has been a place of service unto the Lord. There's nothing wrong with giving a person a donation or a love gift. And yes sometimes the church does hire a prorfessional to doing something for the church, if that church lacks having a person with those gifts and talents. But these situations must be made crystal clear from the start, that are you bringing your gifts to the storehouse for the service of the Lord or is the Pastor hiring you as a professional.
My very own church didn't recognize me until I started playing at other churches and they started to hear about me and it caused a problem but I didn't care, I was able to help my mom send myself to school thanks to those churches that acknowledged me
This is my thing…you see it as a job then it’s going to be a job regardless of your feelings. You do it as ministry it is in a different light. Some people are just church hurt and need healing.
Since when did ministry unto the Lord become about being catered too? I'm a singer as well it's about honoring God not ourselves. I'm there to please God not fill my pockets God supplies all my needs to his riches and glory. If take of God he'll take of me.
I understand that but I get pay too from my home church when I visit to play and I play for white people and they take care of me too so I don't really understand
If a musician so chooses to sew their talents into their church home for free that should be that musicians CHOICE, but it certainly should NOT be his/her/their EXPECTATION. As a leader of a church I would think you wouldn’t want to expect a church member to see because what happens if that person finds another church home? What happens to the music ministry? Have a stable budget for your church ministry or be prepared for a stop and start music ministry for your church if you’re depending on donated/free labor.
The laborer is worthy of his hire I get wat ur saying but this has always been a huge issue not tht it's about money all the time but ppl gotta be compensated
Church size has nothing to do with my craft ! We’re not hired based on your congregation size. We are hired based on our ability which doesn’t change if it 2 ppl or 2000
The difference between a cop and a security guard at church is , you being a security guard at church doesn’t take blood sweat or tears !! Using your gift does. Studying music all week, studying parts to then teach to ppl who aren’t even musically inclined 80% of the time , being put forth to invoke the Holy Ghost etc does not compare to a damn security guard! Your service can go on without security but how effective is a service with bad singing and bad instruments
I just wanted to address part of your comment.Being a security officer at church doesnt take blood ,sweat and tears however it does takes courage. Im sure several churches like Starrville Methodist Church and Emmanuel African Episical Church wish that they had a security detail like The West FReeway Church.So that their members are able to worship without worrying about their safety. Come to think of it Jesus 12 disciples were more of a security team and he saved souls and didnt have a band playing behind him. So with this being said all services provided by church members should be appreciated.
This is a touchy situation. I used to "play" for a church, growing up I served in every auxiliary from the front to the back. I "served" my churches I was never compensated. I've ministered in many churches never signed a contract, whatever they felt like they wanted to give me. Sometimes being led by the spirit I would give an offering back to a church. Former military, trained security officer, armed and unarmed. Serve on the security team at my current Church, and I'm also their Bishop. I don't get paid, as they're overseer or security personnel, I have an occupation. Am I wrong, maybe I shorted myself. I don't get compensated I still feel like I'm serving. Interesting topic why should you pay some and not others. Pastors, ministers, choirs, praise leaders, deacons, trustees, missionaries, ushers custodians, kitchen. Where does it start, where does it end. Some Churches give you compensation for perfect attendance, should you pay the members too. But also I've been in Caucasian churches in ministry and they give me a love offering that would pay me for a whole month for one service, versus the black church where I have to work twice as hard and just enough gas money to get there and back. Interesting topic, it is cultural, but maybe I grew up different, I'm 54 years old. I wasn't really compensated for my talents or anointing, but I felt like I was called to serve so I was never really upset. Maybe I was taught different, or maybe I was manipulated. And then one of the speakers brought up an interesting point, how come we can't find talent within our own organizations, but we will pay somebody to come in and do what we could do. And no we are not treated right in our church. That's another point I go away from home to get treated much better. Wow... Good topic of discussion. Did I hear someone mention Pilgrim Assemblies, I was a member years ago under the Bishop Roy Brown. I learned a lot from Archbishop, miss him. The the early days, I was just a baby. Grace and Peace, blessings Bishop Hough The Bishop at the end, should I get paid more I'm also educated. 🤔 🤣🤣🤣
The same Bishop Brown that did not consider his wife after death... ????? Who they threw out of her house on the streets after she took great care of that man?? Sooooooooo disrespectful!!!! He most definitely had a dogmatic very very extremely arrogant personality!!! Stop making mini Gods out of these folks because of titles and SERVE JESUS with your whole heart!!! You said it right... manipulation ... just dressed up as spirituality.. that is all!!!! Church is a breeding ground for people with sadistic and controlling personalities.. they love to go into ministry... but if you as a believer follow the rule of NO IDOLATRY.. you will always be able to see more clearly! Everything the preacher says and teaches is not right because of a title and clergy collar! Many in the five fold ministry GOD DID NOT CALL and THEY DO NOT BELONG TO HIM.. because THEIR MOTIVES AND HEART Are NOT RIGHT!!! Musicians... do what you do because you love God... and don’t let ANYONE IN LEADERSHIP shame you into being manipulated .... used... and abused!
Everybody love using the Levite but you need to read that again!! This time all the way through!! I guess I would be the Levite in the church that God commissioned my husband to pastor! Levite is a priest! Did you know that? Let’s delve further, the Levite was in charge to minister in WORD (scripture, gospel, word of life) AND be in charge of the music. Oh yeah and I don’t get paid A salary; it’s my service for the Lord! People need to understand that organized religion and organizations misusing The Temple Of God will get served by the Lord himself….they are nothing but hirelings!! PERIOD!! And shame on these churches for hiring these unhinged luciferians who enter to get paid only to entertain and bounce! Oh yes and I have grown children who played for celebrities but understood they better not even think about coming this way requesting a salary! And they play as a service for the LORD AND LOVE HIM DEARLY! And for this God has opened doors for them that no man can close! Believe thou this!!
A workmen is worthy of their hire. Mussel not the ox that treadeth out the corn. If a man doesn’t work he doesn’t eat. Pay the people for the work. They are providing a service it’s worth compensation.
I don't care what nobody say. Musicians should be paid. Pastors that are debating this are ones who don't want to pay. As a musician I have been used and abused and taken advantage of. Especially by those in leadership.
How about the musician that doesn't attend Sunday school, prayer service or stay in the building for the sermon and only come in for the pastors drive.
I played in church since I was 8 started (OJT) On The Job Training. I went to school to learn music theory and to play better. I wasn’t being paid. The pastor preached all over the place and expected us to be there. They expected us to be at Bible class. If someone was tarrying for the Holy Ghost and the service was extended another 10, 30, 45, 60 or 120 minutes we were expected to play. Still no pay. Our choir had to sing on a program and the choir after us sang. The musician from that choir came to me after service and said how much he enjoyed us. He asked me if I teach, I told him yes. He asked how much would it cost for you to teach me? I told him my price then, he says oh good let ask my pastor if he would pay for the lessons on top of my salary? I said to myself, he’s getting paid to play? Honestly, he wasn’t that good at that time. Had to ask myself what’s wrong with this picture? I was playing for a church (good sized church) who could afford to pay any musician out here. I wasn’t even getting a thank you. They told us - if you don’t have the golf ghost - we don’t want to hear you play at all. When there were problems in the music section they threatened to sit the choir and musicians down.
I know pastors who are musicians and they don’t pay their musicians anything. They don’t keep musicians either. The pastor every so often has to step back in the role of musician and then preach after he plays.
Preach!!! All these musicians were in some worldly stuff and there were some other stuff going with them too. This was not a good panel for any young musician to learn from and you wonder why we have problems with musicians in the church.
THIS CONVERSATION WAS EXTREMELY MISLEAD WHEN THE PASTOR OF THAT CHURCH GOT THE MIC. 1. Pay your musicians if you can and as best as you can. But a musician (at their home church) shouldn’t need to be payed to be committed. That’s a hireling not a servant. I’m not a pastor but I am a worship leader and I’m astute in singing and vocal arranging. I’ve never been paid from my home church and I don’t get paid and they don’t have to pay me to lead worship to conduct rehearsals or direct the choir. God will reward me. And I bless him for it!
I was thinking the same question....if the musicians/singers don't get compensated...why should the minister/preacher/pastor be compensated....make it make sense to me...
I will talk about it!! As a wife of a pastor and a owner of a university and children who have been utilized as ‘professional’ musicians. This is what happens when so-called leaders creates churches as a secular business!! Now everybody has a price on their head and for their gift!! ALL OF IT IT IS WRONG!! Period!
If I hear “sow a seed one more time”, I think I’m going to nut up! As a preachers kid, it has gotten so old and sad that “church folk” keep asking for money over and over! God like a cheerful giver, not a badgered giver! We have to remember our position and purpose and responsibility…especially on the church!
I PERSONALLY do not believe people’s gifts are prostituted simply because they play secular music. If u want the services, u should pay the people. Yes, if ur church budget is a certain amount and u make that clear…either the musician will accept it or they won’t. I’ve been inside a church organization that did not pay the musicians @ all nor did they treat them well. I’m the Minister of Music @ my church and the Choir Director and it’s a relief to know that I don’t experience any of these issues and never have. Lots of Black Churches do not honor Praise & Worship Leaders & Choir Directors. And the sister is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. These issues are MAINLY inside the Black Churches and it needs to stop!!!!
I’m still not understanding why the musicians don’t understand that it was God that gave them the gift in order to edify His body. There are literally people lined up and begging the Lord to use them as a vessel in order to help someone in need. I like what the Pastor said when he stated that other people have a 9 to 5 and still sacrifice their time in order to serve in the church. Any service that’s done in the church should not be looked at as a job regardless of how these musicians spin it. I have literally seen musicians refuse to play one key at a struggling church that couldn’t pay them what they wanted or agreed to initially. Since when do we need contracts for church servitude? Musicians are no different than any other servants in the church. Use the gift that the Lord gave you as an offing up to him, vice a skill used for self edification and have faith that He will open a door to a job that will pay your bills. One of the musicians on the panel actually referred to his ability to play as a skill vice a gift. That confirmed that some are not in it for the right reason thus proving why this topic has become so controversial. This is, if it’s not actually, skirting the lines of self worship and it’s hard for me to believe that God is pleased with the type of behavior. It’s not a question of whether this is a cultural thing. This issue is a matter of the heart. Regardless of how you are treated, if the Lord called you for a purpose, your only objective, even in the mist of adversity, should be to serve that purpose. What would have happened if the great Patriarchs like Moses, Joshua, Joseph, Elisha etc would have refused to serve their purpose because of the stiff necked people they encountered. None of us would be here. They persevered through adversity and sacrificed for the work of the Lord and there are so many of God’s people who are still doing that today. Who has bewitched these people and sold them this lie? There are people waiting on someone to help them through ministry(servitude) and people arguing over how different cultures brought them coffee, and donuts, and asked if theirs shoes needed to be tied. If that’s what dictates your willingness to serve, someone needs to go back to the Alter and ask God for a heart like His. Jesus Himself refused servitude from His disciples, who by they way, abandoned Him as He served His purpose. He still went to the Cross to die for the very people who crucified Him. He washed their feet as an example on how we should serve one another with no strings attached and regardless of our status or abilities. If we use Jesus as the example, we should know the conclusion of this matter.
I’m not allowing the church to get by without paying me because the church is the only institution I know that wants you to do everything for free. I don’t know one pastor that pastors and preach for free every week. This ought not even be up for discussion. The church has prostituted my gift for too long!
Nobody is to demand to get paid for doing anything for Christ......all this stuff that is going on in the church house nowdays not ordained by God....the Bible says to go out and work to provide...
If your church is dependent upon that singer/musician and has expectations from them (like being on time for services, etc), they should get paid - no questions asked. If they have the option to play, sing or miss services and rehearsals, then there should be no pay. I don't understand why this is so hard for people to comprehend.
This is one of the most debated thing in the world of music. I believe that musicians should know that their Talent can be marketed, but their gift isn't for selling.
I,don't see specifically that the scriptures speak about getting paid in 1 chronicles 9:33 speak about singers being hired to sing but no wages. I use to here the myth of musicians are worthy of there hired but that's wasn't what it meant in scriptures it was talking about elders being honoured. I believe that musicians should be paid for services rendered but like in the scriptures the way the Most High will ordain it. We need the Most High to help us as a people to maintain order. Musicians set the tone for the congregation and it's been talented for granted. Black churches always trying to scheme people and they need to stop. The Most High is waiting and watching every thing.
Wow. The beautiful young lady in the green! She spoke the truth. Many times, I, Go to different churches, as well as musicals and events, where people of religious stature look at us (especially those of us who they don’t think look the part) and turn up their noses, and these are people of my own color. Then if you mention something about it, the first thing they’ll say is your ego is in question when it’s actually theirs. So, I can definitely get behind what she was saying about going where people treat you and your gift with mutual respect and appreciation rather than a begrudged dollar amount that they won’t even speak to. Now, I’m not wholly concerned about the money piece because God has always provided for me whether the church paid me or not. I was in a situation where My term was complete at a church and my household finances took a substantial pay cut, yet God never missed a beat. Thank you Jesus. I’m a witness that God will provide for his own but I do agree with what she said about us going to school and paying out to learn your craft, and to have that time and practice monetarily appreciated when the church is going to be the recipient of the end result and prayerfully as the music ministry and all ministries of the church improve according to the leading of the Holy Spirit, tithes and offering would go up and the church would thrive in a business sense as well as spiritually. Many of us take out student loans, work to put ourselves to school, go hungry in those nights in the dorm when we don’t have much money, take on opportunity after opportunity To get used to performing in front of people (Who are not always very accepting) and to build up our confidence, and learn new tricks of the trade that the church benefits from whenever we play. And then, when we have gotten The credentials, the bachelors and sometimes the Masters degree as well, We have to work ourselves up to build credence as a first rate musician/minister of music/choir director/vocalist/Music consultant and those who nickel and dime us for asking for specific amounts (starting with an efficient fee that satisfies both parties and working our way up to more supplemental rates as our skill set and demand grows.) don’t really help the situation. In fact, when they do this, they inadvertently cause us to second guess our own worth, then fight with our own selves to keep from second-guessing. Let me duck because I don’t want anybody throwing the tomatoes on me for what I’m about to say. But I’m also feeling the church’s plight. There are some that cannot afford the rates that musicians charge but they still want quality service. Knowing they don’t have the money to do so, they do what they can to raise a substantial amount for the musician and they do it with a giving and loving heart. Churches like they are scarce but they are out there. And to get on the flipside, some churches are respectful to musicians that are arrogant, condescending, and just downright mean. Those are the churches I feel the most sorry for because the arrogant musician Is taking up space that could be occupied by someone who is humble, who knows his skill set, and is confident in what God has given him. In short: I believe that all sides could stand self reevaluation- The musicians in how we treat the people in the church and the people in the church in how they treat musicians.
The brother that responded to the first question a very strong point. The cop and the fried chicken chef all have secular jobs that pay their bills so they can freely serve at church. But the musicians are to only serve in church with no pay...because if they ever try to use their gift to feed their families in the secular you start hearing words like "prostituting" and that's a tame one. What are they supposed to do? They cant play outside church and still be accepted as good Christians.. ...but they should not be paid for playing in church. Yet folks are shouting about that...it shows what the sister in green was saying is true. Too many black churches have no compassion for their own musicians they love to pick a part if the music dont hit the way they want to. You treat musicians like jukeboxes and they will act like one...pay to play.
Not all churches have the financial ability to pay musicians. If there are only 30 members, how are they going to pay an organist $250 a week? Maybe a once in a while love offering would be nice!
@@joegurt2957 facts that's not even a smart financial investment. But black churches always gotta be grand and show out tho😒 if you got 30 members and the offering on Sundays is $250 don't hire a musician that wants $250 to play its that simple
Have we forgotten what the tithing was for? Taking care of the household of faith. You want a dedicated levite pay his wages. If you can't support him, don't stop him from using the gift God gave him to make a living. 🚶🏾♂️
I know they're having this LONG convo about why musicians should get paid. 1. It's simply because weekends are work days for musicians. They are actually the days musicians could be making money somewhere else. But instead, they're taking their paid days and playing for the church. A security Guard, Cook/ anything else is generally going to have a 9-5 monday through friday, however musicians make the bulk of their income on weekends. I believe a church should honor them for that financially. But not only financially, the church should honor them and treat them as more than a hireling. They should also offer them family and community and a safe place to be pastored. The other thing we have to think about is... that for white churches, it's more normal to have musicians on rotation. They usually dont have the SAME drummer every week, and sadly things are just more organized and we haven't really figured out how to get the planning center thing going... so often times, musicians in our churches end up just feeling used and abused. Anyway... yea... that's my two cents.
Great points on both sides. I’m a musician, very skilled on multiple instruments. Some musicians think the church will make them financially set. Not. The smart thing to do as a musician is to get a job during the week because there is no 401k, retirement, social security playing for the church. Playing at church should be extra income. As far as respect, everyone deserves respect. Us as musicians can’t come in and demand honor and respect. That should already be there but if it’s not, you shouldn’t be there. At the end of the day, being a musician, pastor, singer is not going to put us in heaven faster then anyone else. Peace and blessings to you all…
I don’t get paid, and I prefer it like that. When you take the money out of it, you don’t have to worry about contracts and how I’mma put food on the table. You can really play in the spirit.
I went to school as a classically trained pianist, and eventually blessed to be able to play in church. I read music, know my music theory, write musical notes, I studied to be a band director, play by ear, sing, able to teach the choir, play the drums, play wind instruments, and etc. I got out the “business” of being a church musician. I could have easily played for a White church with my musical background for a lot of compensation, but I prefer being in Black churches because that is how I was raised. I experienced the most hurt in the Black church because everybody knows music better than me and can make me feel bad for their song not being played the way they believe it should, but don’t the first thing about playing a note on a piano. I went to college for education, and blessed to have a corporate job so a church gig never paid my bills. It was just a supplement income, and I could barely get at most $150.00 from a church. That included all the stank attitudes from church members. I should have went to play for White churches, but I didn’t. I had to get out of playing because the last church had me on the brink of kicking ass during service, and I was going to start with the pastor…the stress, hell, and drama ain’t worth it!
But this is where I have to agree to disagree, it’s only fair if you call me to come play at your church and I’m not a member that I get paid, your hiring me for a JOB so yes I’m going to be paid. Y’all be saying get a job but most of them do have jobs and they are referencing when they are asked to go out to sing and play at other churches, events etc. but if you heard what the lady in the green said it’s how you treat people, and if you treat her well she will go even if the person doesn’t have the money.
@@ladidi4935 Get a job? What do you think minstrel ministry is? You sound like a lazy spirited, ungrateful soul... I am not one, but musicians in the Black Church get fed up because of ppl like you and your mindset.
This comment is so ignorant... what do you think the definition of work is? It’s a job!!!! ... The Bible says it is A GREAT SIN TO COVET !!!! Stop being Jealous of Musicians, their talent.. their pay.. and of the many doors God opens for them .. because it is the BIBLE that says a man’s gifts will make room for him and take him before great men .. the Bible says a worker is worthy of his wage ... stop using and abusing Gods servants in not doing right by them in the matters of business.. God is not in that .. that’s the devil all day!!! Stop hating on talented people who develop their skills to a degree of excellence!!! Stop receiving money on your job, but then have the audacity to tell someone else what they should not receive when they are hired for a job that they do well and are qualified for in the business of ministry!! Stop preaching a prosperous God but you as has servant are always looking for someone to use, abuse, and always want something for free and don’t want to pay for it .., always poor mouthing and doing people wrong.. especially in business .. like everybody owe you something free because you go to church.. when THEY DONT... but you the first one who wants to throw scripture around with no integrity or business about yourself.. trying to shame a musician because they will not work for you for free... the devil is a liar...
What the lady said about how she was treated in a white church vs a black church was spot on. I've had the SAME experiences ..... and to this day, it's the reason that I rarely play in a black church.
It depends on the church! Most churches will play their musicians, and then some musicians will just play, because that is their way of giving back to the Lord, what He gave them! Peace!
Every person in this panel need to listen to Juanita Bynum “Church on the Rockin Oxen” preached at Rod Parsley’s church. This is that word coming to fruition
The Levites were the priest who worked and looked after the temple and people, God said they should not work and the people should support them. Two different things.
@@msjay025 1 Chronicles 9:33 "Those who were musicians, heads of Levite families,stayed in the rooms of the temple and were exempt from other duties because they were responsible for the work day and night."
@@msjay025 Levites were more than the priest. They were a whole tribe that was responsible to take care of the things of the temple, to make sure the worship (singers and music) was in the temple 24/7. Now what people miss is that the tithe is to make sure that there is meat in the storehouse.... well who is eating the meat? the Levites. The tithe was to take care of the affairs of the temple and its caretakers. Blood and fat are the offerings of the Lord and the lean meat was given to the Levites to eat.
I can agree with a lot that has been said by each musician. I started playing at 7( by ear ) I've been a (church musician) since I was 14 years old.I became a Minister music at twenty-one, I've have took some music classes but my gift is my strongest area. I've had them bring other musicians, and over me give other musicians my job. At one church we were required to be there four days a week only paid one time(not a great salary) plus working at the church day care for basically free. I have been lied to with the contract or without I have played for events and been told that I will be compensated and get finished with the event and no check. I have serve at most black denomination other than cogic.I've had churches to honor vacations sick days I've had churches not to even give you a love day, raise appreciation yearly. At times I thought maybe it's time to quit maybe it's time to retire and I can just be a bench warmer but it's just something on the inside of me I love God and I love what I do.i have also had the pleasure of been asked to come back(everything that glitter isn't gold) Being a psalmist, MOM and minister is my calling.I know that I'm not the best at it but I'm anointed to do it and that's what makes the difference so I'm going to keep on pressing on.To each musician that read my post you keep your head up, fight for what you is yours and know your worth know when it's time to walk away. Stay humble, and prayerful in all that you do, and watch God exalt you in his time. Study to show yourself approve a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the "Word of Truth". No that your work is unto God, I want to hear him say Well done. Blessings ☺
I feel like some people here are questioning people's integrity for expecting to be paid. And to use frying chicken or being an usher as a comparison to being a musician? That's a reach sir lol. If you weren't paid and you're okay with that, then that's absolutely fine. Some people expect more for their hard work/talent, and that's okay too. Correct me if i'm wrong but there's nothing in the Bible that says musicians/singers "should or should not be paid" so there really isn't a right answer here.
@@samuell.woodsii7109 The choir doesn’t put in the same amount of work as musicians do. A choirs’ job is usually done on Sunday, with a rehearsal in the week to be taught parts.
@@samuell.woodsii7109 Generally a church choir is comprised of members of the church who believe they can sing and want to sing for their church. These people most likely are not trained or skilled to the level of a professional bgv. Thats the difference. If you want me to come to your church and sing like the record then yes im gonna have to do a little more practice and training to give that sound then the person that comes to sing with 20 other tenors. Praise team usually sings more difficult music and has to have a different level of commitment so yes if the church has it I see nothing wrong with something to compensate those individuals who devote their gifts and talents time and energy to the house of God.
Actually there is. What's more important to your body? Pancreas, liver, or bladder? Which one would you appreciate or pay for services rendered? Are not all equally important in their various allocations? The problem today is people have elevated preachers to privileges, while neglecting other people's services to ministry. Let respect be restored. As the early Church shared resources.
I have been singing in churches practically all of my life. I was actually paid one time for singing at a church I was visiting. I was so shocked that the members paid me, because I had never experienced being paid before by people in a church. This let me know that they appreciated what I shared with them. I ended up putting the money back in the offering plate, because I felt guilty about getting paid to do what God put in me to do. However, over the years, I have wondered why musicians usually get paid, but not singers. It's like singers are taken for granted being the fact that we also put in the work to learn the songs. On the other hand, if we are sharing our gifts and talents for the Lord, whether it be musicians, singers, preachers, the hospitality ministry, teachers, etc., no one should be getting paid, but if you ARE going to pay one group, then pay all. If not, funds need to go to the orphans, widows, the food banks, the Salvation Army, to others in need, and also to the upkeep of the church. This is my opinion.
If you feel that you are better in any way than those who do not take the money.....you already have your reward. Let others who arent rewarded be means of self reflection, accept a reward of their own choosing....be it appreciation, flowers, praise or dollars. Let every man have the desires of their own heart..... If you desire to see money taken out of the pockets of another....money will flee from you as well.
@@rayjgold No, that has never been my desire. If people feel the presence of God, that's all that matters to me. If people's spirits are lifted that is what matters to me. If someone is healed,that is what matters.. God ultimately blesses me. So, I have no worries. As long as I do as He instructs me to do. He will provide the rest. I am blessed, my family and friends are blessed. You are blessed. I am the daughter of the King! I am blessed coming and going, and living in abundance!
You probably have a day job too. Remember most musicians can make a living playing, singers come a dime a dozen, I don’t know any singer that makes a living singing.
The FATHER GOD gave me the gift to play drums for HIS Glory. To praise HIM and lift HIM up with Righteousness, with Glory and Honor. If this is the reason and the purpose. Then why use your gift for money when in the eyes of GOD. Money is the root of ALL EVIL. WHY! So, you would rather choose something the FATHER GOD deemed to be evil? If the church chooses to pay you, that's a totally different thing. If the pastor of the church makes a contract with you and chooses to pay you. That's cool. The point I'm trying to make is. Be careful of which God you choose to serve. If you choose to use your talent/s to Glorify the FATHER GOD and HIS Son cool but, if you choose money over GOD........that's cool to. Just know this. There is a heaven and a hell. You either choose to serve the FATHER GOD or you can choose to serve Satan. Heaven and he'll does exist.
I attended a predominantly a White church for years in the Assembly of God & sang on the worship team & was a deacon where no one, but the pastor received a salary. Musicians who are members in their churches should not get paid to play. It's call ministry. Once you are paid then pay taxes & what is the real motivation. There is nothing wrong playing secular music. It is honest job. No job shaming.
Oh PLEASE... It's still ( a JOB ) & when you're asked to learn music for a choir or praise team. You're also asked to play at rehearsals & back the Pastor/Preacher. Its A JOB ( so pay them )
Wrong! It’s a heart thing, and the heart of the greedy black church is being exposed. And I am leader of worship team and minister and devotion leader.
@@Ash2beauty if u can’t pay the musicians because ur broke… just say that 🤷🏿♂️ y’all love to use the disguise of “morals” to back your lack of funds to pay the musicians…
Thank you for sharing this panel discussion. I wish that there would a standard on this topic but, there is not. I have played for several ministries and have been mistreated by the bulk of them whether I am playing for free or if I am being paid.
I agree the time is far spent ..I'm a promoter for artists and I find myself discipling half these artists sometimes you have to help help to serve not everything is or should be a price tag
Do Jesus charge us for showing up to our services? I’m not a musician so that’s probably why I don’t get why people are paid to do the work of the Lord. Do it for free as a way of paying God back. For giving the gift to us.
I wholeheartedly agree with you and even before I watched a little bit of the video, I was thinking the same thing and for us to think that God owes us something or that we should be "compensated" for something that he freely gives is selfish to me. I sing and have been doing so since I was a child and not one time in my 55 years did I ever request or demand to be paid or compensated for ministering before the Lord. When people would ask me to sing at weddings, they would ask me what I charge I would tell them nothing but if they feel led to bless me with something, I would let them make that decision, even when I would sing at funerals, same rule. Salvation is free.😌
@@subrennaevans6504 I agree with you sis! I’m 42 been ushering since I was 12. Never had to ask for a payment to be a door keeper at the house of the Lord. But because of my faithfulness to God and His house, He has blessed me tremendously!
Ok if that’s the case then do not complain about the quality of music you get at a church I’m sorry I’m a drummer who work 2 full time jobs and my only time off is on thursday nights and Sunday the night of rehearsal and when you have to balance time with family, house hold and other responsibilities to balance so don’t nobody wanna have to balance all that practice music outside the church and come into Sunday service for a 4-5 hour service that’s time wasted
Here is the FULL CONVERSATION for those who asked: ruclips.net/video/QqTiQHzOjPQ/видео.html
Only in the black community would we have this type of debate…🤦🏾♂️ no white or Hispanics have this debate.
even pacific island churches 🤣 its already a reward for us to serve in the church. it never feels like work.
You are wrong..all churches have this debate..
I'm not black but I believe that every recording gospel artist should be paid 😕.
We all have bills to pay and we have to eat too, just like doctors and everyone else 😕.
I've played for churches without compensation requirements for decades. I did it not because I was working for the Lord......It was because I was a plum fool, and knew no better. You will be taken advantage of, if you allow it.
@@ZackAngelMusic you might just feel more appreciated at the bar as well. Smh.
@@rayjgold well, if you are DOING it for "appreciation"--then its not ministry and you should most definitely head on over to the bar. God loves a cheerful giver--not those who give/do begrudgingly.
For the record, ministry is SERVICE. Nothing more and nothing less. It's NEVER about what you can receive, rather what you can GIVE. This entire video and the majority of comments underneath it are a complete embarrassment to the body of Christ and explains a lot to be most candid. Matthew 20:28 is pretty clear. If HE didn't come to BE served, but TO serve--may I ask who are WE to expect different?! Folks are out here entitled and all the while, souls are being lost. We must do better. Eternal souls are on the line. That's what we need to be counting. Not pennies on the dollar. Jehovah Jireh ALWAYS provides and if you've been in the Lord any length of time you already know. Use your gifts for HIM--and He will take care of you.
Praying your day is blessed!
@@d.c.4706 Read carefully, and without filters. No one desires to do a work that no one appreciates.......period! If you are a cook and there is one meal that no one likes....you stop cooking it.....and instead, cook the meals that everyone like.. Now does this mean that you cook for the appreciation, of those that are eating, because you prefer to cook the meals that everyone like? I think not.
Everyone desires to be appreciated......but this does not mean that they do it for the appreciations.
It is just clear, the difference in how the religious treat those that work for them, and how the world treats them. I am thanked and appreciated for things I feel i shouldnt be (because of how simple or mundane it is), in the world.... and when I go in the church, and put in hard, tiring, stressful work, I get people like you saying, I deserve nothing....not even appreciation for it.....and if I desire appreciation, I am wrong for the very thought. Your thought process, is the very problem.
@@d.c.4706 Now for Truth. We must separate religion and religious activities, from the worship of God, in Spirit and in truth.
"24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;"
If you still equate the worship of God with what we do in these temples....you have more important things to worry about than whether or not musicians are paid in the temples.
I pray that it is God's will that you find the truth and be set free....and that your day is blessed as well.
Ask the ministers or pastors if they will serve without pay. Lol. I got fooled by that don't charge the church for your gift. My piano lessons cost more than my pay. I know Berklee and Juilliard teach gospel music... I played fot a small church one year for free, the membership increased, they padded pews, new pulpit furniture snd new piano. They had an anniversary program for me. I received a brown lunch bag with $33.00 in coins. So I saved it and gsve it to the other musician who was getting paid on her anniversary. Lol
There is literally no difference between the church and world these days
Thats a Very generalized statement. And its not the Church as a whole that may have to be sanctified, we may have to be Holy on Individual basis!
@@zeusincoming282 we may? We have too be ye holy for I am holy. But he knows we are not perfect
@@zeusincoming282 they dont wan't to hear THAT Z!!lol
that's a fact we have been infiltrated
Nope it’s sad.
Pastor gets paid to minister without shaming them. Paying musicians to minister is ok also.
Your getting off topic, The pastor is the shepherd of that house. The Bible says how shall they hear, not how shall they play, see God ordain the pastor, he did not ordain a musician.
Thank you
@@msjay025 I have to disagree with you
@@msjay025 you just gave the dumbest reply of the year - to date.
@@msjay025 so David wasnt an ordained musician ?😂😂😂😂 Hookay
I've been a member and a musician at a black AND white church. Compensation is an issue in alot of churches. All I can say is, when I'm not there on the drums I get looks and words. I have a life OUTSIDE of what I do in church. I'm not saying I NEED to get paid. But if you don't pay me, relax your expectations because I'm a father, husband, and more. However, if you're paying the rest of the band, please don't overlook the drummer.
Agreed
Profound 💪🏾
#truth
1200 for once a month and u don’t play an hour or always play??? Shame on you !!!! where is ur integrity???
Agreed!
I was a bassist at a black church for 15 years. Rehearsal on Wednesday service on Sunday... paid with vacation days. It was “service” But, bottom line it was still a JOB. I can say that After my years of service and “church experiences” I probably won’t ever do it again.
Most churches I know will pay musicians before they pay singers specifically smaller churches.
Facts
Jesus never charged nobody for listening to the word of god you need to find you another church to attend.
Why should you even consider payment. You are using your talent to glorify God and draw people close to God. To solicit or complain about money is an affront to the Spirit of God.
If you are looking to be paid monetarily by the church something is not right with you spiritual. Apostle Peter reveals those who have this mindset in Acts chapter 8
@@ericallensr3435 being a musician is not easy, if it were, everybody would be one, it takes years of dedication, practice, trial and error and frustration to become a successful musician, there are professional musicians all over the world who get paid to play their instruments, they've put in years of hard work and spent thousands of dollars to get where they are in music, therefore they have a right to ask for compensation, if you think you're going to get Joel Osteen or TD Jakes or Hezekiah Walker's musicians to play for free, think again, the musicians who want to get paid are typically the ones who do music for a living, some musicians charge by the hour, others charge by the song, there's a difference between someone volunteering to play for a church and a pastor hiring someone to play for a church, when a pastor hires a professional musician, he becomes his employer, if that musician joins that church, the pastor becomes his employer and his pastor
The Church should go back to Hymns, they are more theologically sound.
That’s very true but some people won’t come to hear the Hymns. In some places that a big reason why they stop singing them. No offense and I’m not disagreeing with you but every action has a consequence. Again no offense.
I agree to a certain extent. I like your reasoning for hymns, but you can write songs that are not hymns that are theologically sound. The problem is some people get caught up in trying to sell a song or entertain people, instead of writing something to help bring the people to a true encounter with God
How does your statement contextually appropriate itself in this dialogue? Don't get offended its a question that I would like to understand.
@@jamesc.sampsonjr.5791 Because hymns are congregational songs to be sung by the church together. There would be no need for a praise team that you'd have to pay. Plus the hymns are more sound Biblically. I was thinking this in my mind but I only typed half of it.
Some of y’all underestimate how much work goes into honing your craft and being a musician and it shows with the low-key accusations that they aren’t saved and aren’t grateful for the gifts God gave them. If y’all feel so strongly about that, quit YOUR job and go volunteer for the church full time. And the Lord will provide.
@A Rare Sophisticate It’s all of the above.
@A Rare Sophisticate All of thee above! Being a levite is not the same as making chicken dinners, or standing outside directing traffic. It takes a certain level of skill, practice, training, and education to be able to do this. Countless times churches were not feeling the spirit because the free praise and worship leader does not have to skill and the oil that a trained singer with a love for God and a consciousness of the move of the spirit during service can bring. It hit different when you understand how to flow in the spirit and you can go further because you have spent time perfecting your God given talent.
Man you are so on point!!! And some of these accusers are and would be the first ones angry and complaining when the musician is late or a no show. Not to mention how much the musician invests in his/her craft and equipment!!! I personally make investments on my own!! Why? Because I want the music to sound AWESOME!! It’s a process and it is worth it!! But no one eve sees what the musician invests in their equipment and gift!!! I know drummers who buy their own drums to play-- in church!! Why?? They know what sounds good!! And they don’t want to settle for just anything. Not to mention rehearsals and practicing; while still holding a full time job. And ppl have the absolute audacity to complain about musicians getting paid!!! Lord help us!!!
Thank you !! They’re comparing other jobs in the church to being a musician which is ridiculous ! An ushers job is very important but an usher doesn’t have to prepare mon-fri for a Sunday service !
You Betta' say that !!!
This is amazing, as a musician I've been taken advantage by churches for years under the label of serving. The Bible states that the church is supposed to take care of the musicians, so that the musicians can only do service. The churches had fallen short
The Bible let us know that God will not forget your labor of love. If you were doing it with the right heart God will bless and has been blessing you. The pay from God super cedes any amount of compensation from man. Be grateful and look at as God allowing you to sharpen your talent instead of being taken advantage of.
ARE THE MUSICIANS MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH?
My concern is the health of our black musicians and singers because most are over weight and dealing with diabetes and high blood pressure. Can the BLACK CHRUCH talk about that?
I am hollering..🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣sooo true
Truth! 💯
The musician in the Church I grew up in was overweight and he passed away a few years ago do to complications of Diabetes. We have got to do better.
It’s not just musicians, most of the black church is obese
Exactly
In some churches they put u in hell over alcohol and cigarettes but not about that pork chop fat back chicken and greens!! Yeah I said it!
Until the church gets out of the mindset of worshipping their musicians, vocal or instrumental, this "gig" mentality will never leave. We are leaving worship in the hands of people who are not necessarily led by the Holy Spirit. We have become an entertainment industry breeding the likes of Dorinda Clark Cole who feel free to disrespect other musicians with impunity. I am a classically trained musician who also plays by ear and can play easily in all keys accept 2 and it has always been my mindset to use my all for the glory of God. He gave the resource.
But the other side of that coin is churches start choosing musicians for how religiously they seen instead of for how good they can play.
Amen
Facts! No lies being told!
This was the best Debate I’ve ever seen. And I love and that were in the panel. Thank you because they didn’t understand what we go through
Really?? I would love for Gino Jennings to have been there.... make this look like Sesame Street.
This is sad. Played for over 20 yrs for free. Preached for free. And God has met every need plus some! What if God said I will take away life from you if you can't pay for it? ...
preach I agree
That is such a profound statement.
👏👏👏
Amen to that Marques well said people get it twisted it is not your talent it belongs to GOD He is just letting you borrow it for a Season
You say this because you believe playing in the church equals playing for God. I no longer think this is the case. We play what the people desire to hear, when they desire to hear it......we play to get the people in whatever mood they want to be in.....we play to give them a rhyme and beat to dance to. I only play for the Lord......When I am playing alone with my headphones on.
But I do appreciate comments from other musicians..... comes across better than a pew warmer telling me what I deserve for doing what I do.
This whole video really troubled me. Help us Lord!
what about it troubled you? It's an interesting discussion (speaking as a musician)
@@harmonyeternalhe fact that God was not welcomed in the conversation far as this clip is concerned. It’s about “self” and not about God. About receiving and not giving… and… “the black church”????
@@harmonyeternalwho goes to a 4 year college just to sing or play for a church?
I'm not a musician but I have been on a trustee board and we dealt with musicians. The church was always Changing musicians. I inquired why. The pastor said they want more money. Black churches do treat musicians very poorly. Most pastors want to be paid we'll. And they get their money. Now I agree you pay according to their training. And Pastors need to let the musicians do their job we don't need the Pastor selecting all the music. That's what we pay the musicians for. Upgrade your instruments.
You don't know how happy I would be to walk into church and see a new drum set. I get paid, though only enough to pay my phone bill (50$ exactly).
As much as I would love to get paid better I think I'd be even happier if they actually had a good drum set.
This shouldn’t even be a conversation. Musicians should get paid just how pastors get paid. Period
No actually, NONE of them should be paid. Matthew 10:8 is pretty clear. Real kingdom business is about SERVICE. And while these folks sit and talk about being PAID-souls are being lost because their priorities are mixed up.
@@d.c.4706 I agree..not all but a lot of servers of the church got away biblically about serving in the church..it's getting to a dollar dollar bill thang..this is a deep topic
I pray you’re really not a bishop because you are so ignorant to the word of God!! You need to be taught whoever you are! This is why people perish, for the lack of knowledge. You are a prime example!
@@d.c.4706 You are not reading your Bible, go read about how tithes are spent in the Bible, for the widows, strangers, Levites( workers in the church), the poor! These musicians should be paid. No one can place a value on the talent and skill of an individual but you can definitely show appreciation and make efforts towards the welfare!
Thank you!!! I'm a classical pianist and church musician. Thank you!
I don’t understand why this is such a difficult topic. The laborer is worth his wage. Pay the musicians and the singers! Honor them. Serve them.
It’s a spirit over black ppl generational when it comes to money notice how it’s always a problem and cringe feeling ppl get quiet we really need to break this curse
Truth!!
Pay the ushers too then.
@@missnene9157 I’m not making an argument for or against paying musicians here, but just wanted to point out that comparing an usher to a musician is not a valid or fair comparison. An usher doesn’t have nearly the obligation to ministry that a musician has…especially in matters that involve doing ministry outside of standard service times. Whereas an usher probably doesn’t usher every Sunday…they have a rotation…a musician has to play every service…including mid-week services, revivals, convocations, etc. The average parishioner picks and chooses which nights they want to attend. But musicians ‘must’ be there every time the door is open. This doesn’t include the mid-week rehearsals that they must attend. Many churches have several choirs and praise teams. And when pastor travels they want their musician to go with them as well. Obligations to the ministry often make it difficult to maintain a 9-5, fulfill family obligations, and still be what the church needs. Also, the usher doesn’t have to purchase anything. They just come in and stand on there post. While most churches do have some musical equipment, most musicians have to have and use at least some of there own stuff. My keyboards range in price from 1200 to 4000…not including wiring that has to be replaced periodically…computers to run DAW software and click tracks…etc. This also doesn’t include the additional private time the musician has to take for lessons and personal practice time…things an usher doesn’t experience. Musicians definitely should love the Lord and should be dedicated to Him first, but we can’t ignore the work that most have to put in that goes far beyond what most other parishioners have to consistently give. Just something to consider.
Much love, Shalom
@@meatyeye well I’ve been a dancer in the church for more than 2 decades and my obligation is just as intense and sometimes more intense than musicians. Did I get paid? NO! All those intense dance moves have beaten me up over the years, learning new material and sometimes given a days notice to learn new music and dance moves, traveling, thousands spent on garments and flags, all day rehearsals, being up in the middle of the night practicing, etc etc. I do it because I LOVE GOD and I’m grateful to be gifted with the ability to dance. Oh yes, and I’ve been professionally trained. Not only do I not get paid but everything I do comes out of my own pocket and I have no complaints nor regrets. If musicians want to get paid they need to go audition for Bishop Jakes or some other mega ministry or audition for a professional band.
If That Be The Case... Why Do Pastors/Preachers Get Paid ??
(asking for a friend) 😎
because they control the money and if anyone challenges them they get rid of them most of them not only get paid some even a percentage of whatever the offering is, some get allowances for food, cars, and housing and then complain about paying their musician $300 who works as equally as hard maybe even harder while they drive a benz
The Bible actually speaks about paying Pastors. When you Bless them, you Bless God. REAL PASTORS do not charge. Why? Because REAL FOLLOWERS have FIRST, The Heart of God which leads them to tap in the spirit and God reveals certain things about the heart of their Pastor and they sow what God leads them to sow. To sum this all up, we need to be SERVANTS rather than BASTARDS in the spirit. We have to think... What if God charged us every time we sinned, something like a body part? Every time you sinned, you a finger had to be chopped off. We’d be glad to serve with NO problem. So in reality, it depends where your heart is. If you’re doing it for God, He’ll pay you. I promise you. I’m a living witness. I don’t charge to play. Because I am a Servant of God. And don’t you know people walk up to me in stores and Bless me with finances? People volunteer and pay my bills. Why? Because I told God, “Let my gift carry Your Glory & Anointing, that when people see & hear me, their lives will be changed forever.” In return... Blessings just fall. When I Preach, I MOST DEFINITELY won’t charge. Where in the Bible did you see Jesus charge the people? He did the will of His Father & HE WAS BLESSED. Just trying to help.
Yes according to the Bible, the Priest we're to be paid.
Oftentimes it is their only job. So they are paid to allow them to pastor full time. Otherwise like many pastors do they have jobs too.
I'm a preacher and musician. I believe both should be paid not because of my personal belief but because the bible speaks of both being paid. It's in Numbers, Nehemiah, Chronicles, and Mathew, just to name a few. The only problem I have is the personality of some preachers and musicians. Some just about charge you for speaking to them and are some of the most arrogant people you meet.
As a college-trained, concert organist who has served in Catholic, AME, Baptist, COGIC, Methodist, Non-Denomination, and now Episcopal Church with congregations that were white, black and those in between, I would’ve love to have been in the room. Sister in the green hit it on the head. Mic drop!
You hear me!
Sometime we need to check our attitude. I’m not saying what she saying it’s true. How do you treat them as well it goes both way
I agree 👏 👏 👏
Exactlyyyyyyy!
Man I'm trying to get to that college trained concert organist level 😭
You pay for your janitor, repair contractors, utilities and anyone else that provides a skilled service for your ministry. Pay your musicians so they can survive! You'll never have a strong music ministry otherwise.
Understandable, but if that's their way of living, bringing in income as a regular job or business outside of the church, but the church needs their business to keep up with the maintenance of the building that's a different ball game. Some (not all) of These musicians try to make a living off the church alone. Too lazy to get a job, won't stay in the service to hear the preacher, don't give tithes or offerings but want to be compensated by the church?? I believe if anything they're the ones that need not to be paid. However, if you have faithful people who show themselves worthy and dedicated to the ministry they should be taken care of. There's a difference in prostituting your gifts (for people) and giving service with your gifts (unto the Lord).
But also the church is responsible for doing it out of order and context because, they were so desperate to have musicians some have settled for anybody and even been willing to pay just to have musicians for the functioning of the service and to feel more adequate having musicians. They sold themselves short to folk who weren't really dedicated to that particular ministry and they give themselves to the highest bidder.
@@andreyounger9681 too lazy to get a job? What if being a musician is their job. There are people who play instruments and sing for a living. Why would your service be any different from their gigs? They still have to take the time to practice and learn the music.
@@andreyounger9681 reasoning like this is why so many of our churches have high musician turnover rates, when a musician gets hired at a white church, he or she typically stays there several decades because white churches know how to compensate their musicians, being a musician is a job, it takes a lot of hard work, frustration and dedication to even become barely good enough to carry a church service as a musician, if being a musician was easy, everybody would be one, why do you think there is a such thing as professional musicians? Do you think John p kee or Hezekiah Walker's musicians play for free? Think again
@@andreyounger9681 those are called hobbyists, not musicians, a musician will always be 10 times better than a hobbyist, a hobbyist is the one that makes $50 a week at some rinky dink church above a corner store with 12 people who come every week, a musician makes at least $250 a week
I had a medical profession outside of church although I'm a talented musician. My happiness comes from being needed to play and they tried to pay me but I refused payment. My salary from my job was more than adequate. Today I'm a member of a church where I've never been asked to fill in from time to time, I don't charge, I just want to play that is my own personal enjoyment. So I continue to play to the four walls at home.
Amen...I love that!
👋👋👋👋👋👋👋
I think this video is mostly about music as an only job. Playing for a church is very time consuming and stressful and demanding.......It is not easy to be asked to play on a schedule while be reprimanded any time you are late or dont know a song etc..... for free. Especially when you dont have any other job.
Travis…..It is your right to relinquish pay but scripturally, it’s not the church’s right to neglect payment to the musicians…..Especially if they are skilled/professional.
@@EugeneMungin1984 c’mon and preach that thing. Isn’t that the standard? Scripture? What does GOD say? That should end all debate..
I feel It's economic also... More would play in service if they were getting paid sufficiently at their jobs. And most churches want to ensure certain people are in place every Sunday and on time.
If you’re going to be paid musician, PLEASE play‼️ Not texting while the preacher is preaching‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️
THIS!!!! This pay does not include you walking out during the sermon. Keep your behind on that instrument.
You can't force an unsaved person to honor God
@@kentrakjackson Amennnn!!
@@itsnickole that’s why these saved folk should have discernment with who you’re hiring. Praise God, as a minister of music I didn’t have that problem.
So when you actually learn that the musician isn’t supposed to play the entire time the pastor is preaching and when you learn how a sermon works, the better you’ll understand things. A sermon is taught in 3 major parts which is “Information, Revelation, and Inspiration” and the pastors don’t need us til the inspiration because if we play too soon, we’ll cut off the listeners ability to hear the revelation. Meaning they’ll shout but they won’t get the point. We aren’t needed til it’s time for the inspiration because now the listeners gotten the point of the message, so now let’s praise him
This whole conversation is troubling and also one of the reasons I left black church. Tom foolery!!!
I understand his question but black churches are very difficult nowadays especially when it comes to the singers and musicians fr fr
Right!
Especially family churches
It does not matter the color of people, society as a whole is far, far, far off focus with God. There is a lot of showmanship
Right ! They will pay ppl to mop but won’t pay the ministry that is the second most important to the preaching
So true @marquis halsell
I see valid points on both sides. But I love Jesus, pay my tithes and love singing/serving in the choir! To the woman in the green on the panel, we were taught to disrespect and mistrust each other. Because we don’t help each other like we should. So showing each other Respect and kindness is still something we have to conquer! I make sure I smile at my brother/sister in church or in the streets. Lastly, this discussion was beautiful, because it was very civil. Nobody went off, nor acted ugly!
PS. I've been in church and in the Lord almost all of my life ,since age 5yrs.and now about to turn 61 yrs.,and I've always seen these matters of musicians done in decent and in order, there was never a problem with whom was using there gifts for the house of the Lord as a service unto the Lord and whom was the paid professional that the Pastor had hired, if that church lacked having that gift. It was never no confusion, but now days everything is about money, how sad and the house of God should not be that way. God will provide jobs and whatever we need. But God's House is not the workforce it's a place of worship. And the tithes and offerings that come in should go right back to the storehouse God's House. And it's nothing wrong with giving a person a love gift or donation now and then. But it's still a place of worship, God's House. 🙏❤️
Jesus literally laid down his life, but we can’t sacrifice our gifts, that’s crazy. But keep that same energy in season of harvest.
So let's say you work as a secretary, would you leave your paying job to work free at the church?
Man stop… musicians need compensation
@@jaydakid4208 no she wouldn’t
That's a good point. And each musician is different. I'm ok either way as long as I'm treated fairly and equally.
@@jaydakid4208 I’m specifically speaking about the “home church”. I lead the praise team and an evangelist at my home church. Never could I charge at my home. That’s not up for debate for me. It’s the gift God has given me to edify the saints, and I love doing it. And God has made my territory large for it, it’s a heart thing.
1st Chronicles 15:22
And Chenaniah, chief of the Levites, was for song; he instructed about the song, because he was skillful.
Biblically, musicians and worship leaders should be paid because they are fulfilling the role of the Levites. Levites were not given an inheritance of land but were sustained from the offerings of the other tribes.
Economically, if your church doesn’t want to pay musicians then don’t! But be satisfied with whatever musicians your church develops and remember that whatever they do is their gift. The reason musicians are paid is because the demand for skillful musicians dictates their pay. Plus, churches want them as employees so that they can be required to play when and what they want them to play.
YOU BETTER READ ABOUT WHAT IS A LEVITE...HE WAS A MINISTER WHO WAS IN CHARGE 'ALSO' FOR THE MUSIC AND NOT THE MUSIC ONLY..STOP TRYING TO USE SCRIPTURES TO JUSTIFY THE BUFFOONERY.
Nehemiah 13:10-13
They are NOT Levites!
I have been a church drummer for over 30yrs. I've just started getting paid to play around 4yrs ago. I remember being a teenager and I was one of two drummers in a nice size church, and the pastor would pay me $5 every once in a while.
I've never asked for a dime to play drums. Even now if I get asked to play, I get asked..How much do you charge? My answer is always, whatever you can afford to bless me with is cool. Notice I said whatever you can (Afford) to pay me. I word it that way, so that the Holy Spirit starts talkin and won't let them be cheap, and pay less than what they can again afford...LOL!
I play because I absolutely love playing, and I give my gift back to God everytime I hop on the set.
I don't have a problem with musicians being paid, but it's charging these ridiculous fees, when they haven't been on NOBODY'S album! Name ain't on NOBODY'S album credits! Lol
One more thing, if Pastors have an issue with paying their musicians, then don't take a salary from the church! The Pastor would take a salary, for preaching a word, that the Lord gave him for free! Taking a $200,000/ year, while only preaching one Sunday morning service, and a Wed night bible study...NAW PLAYA!
Also church musicians need to go back to living right, being saved and holy. Even the musicians are ministering, and this is a whole different mission than playing secular music.
We have too many church singers, and musicians ministering dirty!
Why did you have to raise an offering for the musician. You asked them to come but didn’t prepare for them financially?
THAT PART ABOUT NOT BEING TREATED RIGHT IN THE BLACK CHURCH STRUCK A PROVERBIAL " DIMINISHED CHORD" IN MY EARS! I WAS PLAYING FOR THIS PARTICULAR CHURCH THAT HAD AN EXTREMELY COLD ATMOSPHERE; THEREFORE, I HAD TO LEAVE. I COULDN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE! PRAYERS NEEDED AND REQUESTED😠🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏❤
I play keyboard for the church where I have been a member for my whole life. We are a small congregation but what we lack in size, we make up for in love. They pay me $25, but they treat me well. I'm 15 years old right now and I want to be able to play for additional churches, but I've already said if I do, I will not play for churches where people do not treat me or others well, no matter how much they may be able to pay me.
Pay and respect the musicians or don’t and see how the church moves 🤷🏽♂️
I dont agree music does not make a service...you go to church to hear the word of God which is able to save your souls not the music this the problem in the church today most think cause they did a lot of shouting and dancing but didnt hear the WORD if there was no preaching you didnt have Church you had a good time...the early church didnt have none of this and there is a big difference in the power of the two churches..if God gave u a Gift use it for God Glory to serve one another in praising God you will recieve your reward in heaven God put gifts in the church for edification and worshipping him ..how u gonna charge for something that aint yours????GOD GAVE IT..unsave
Folk will only entertain and complain do it for GOX
@@heisreal445 amen!! That’s the entire problem hirelings think that they actually can make or break a church!! This is why I say these organized businesses that call themselves the temple for worshipping Christ will answer for allowing these fake believers of the Word of God will be served their recompense along with these hires luciferians who don’t take God’s service seriously and don’t reverence his name (Jesus)!
It’s not the musicians or singers that make a church move... that’s the first thing wrong torch there. The Holy Spirit is what moves anything. That’s the problem I see with musicians in church. God gets the glory , it’s not a rock concert.
Facts! Create a budget and keep it moving.
*Ofcourse it's not the musicians that make the church move, that's FAR from the point hes trying to make. If you didn't get his context, it's clearly because you aren't a musician.*
There is a difference between talent and gifts. The bible says your gifts and callings are irreversible. A talent requires to be enhanced by going to school and if this is your livelyhood then yes, get paid. However, God's gifts allows us to serve HIM freely because we didn't acquire this gift from a man or woman. Many people claim to have a relationship with God, they know HYMS BUT DON'T KNOW HIM. playing is just a job, they have no real connection with God.
I like the FIRST PASTOR speaking. his point is so valid.
Yes! I enjoyed his questions and comments.
Many are not in obedience: From Jesus mouth:
Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Matthew 10:8 KJV
Frying chicken is different than being a musician, we all can cook, we all can't sing or play an instrument> As a psalmist my church would never have to pay me for singing, it's my home. I wouldn't charge my natural father for doing what I am suppose to do at home..... I live there, get fed there.... same thing in my the spiritual home. But, everyone else pays, unless the Lord says otherwise
Nawwww nah. Err body can’t cook🤣but I hear you.
I can dig that.
What happened to rendering our talents and I'll give to God he gave them to us freely we need to give to God freely what happened to the church what happened to real Christians who love the Lord the music had become so worldly to it's not considered church music help us Lord help us to run unto you everything you have given to us help us to do your will and not our own will to make money and to live off of something that we supposed to minister too to minister that's all I have to say but it hurts it hurts to see what we have come to God bless you that's why I believe Jesus is coming soon to destroy the works of the devil to destroy the works that he has put and come in the church and sneaking simple ways do you really love the Lord do you really consider him everything to you then give what you can your talent your time and if God see that there's a way to reimburse you or to give you something this is not your job as a regular job this is what you sacrifice for God I'm sorry if I'm sounding wrong but my heart is hurt with what's going on in the church help us Lord help us to do what's right help us to understand oh my God help us Lord help us for when the church begin everybody gave to the poor and to people that we had to hide from from the church being persecuted so bad and it's going to be persecuted again looking to Jesus the yacht and finisher of our face have mercy Lord I pray that we all look for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ believe on him believe he died for our sins that he rose again on the third day and that he's coming back again are we ready.
@@rayblack4104 Minister black.... are you saying we shouldn't get paid at all or are you agreeing with me?
@@lenalove8138 we should not get paid for doing that which pleases the FATHER GOD.
In the tabernacle of David the musicians were skilled and paid.
Say it again.
Not so sister, please search the Scripture using hermeneutics and that textual criticism! Music isn't played inside of temples! Keep in mind, that you had inner and outer space!
This was an interesting conversation. I noticed that many on the panel were quite younger than myself. I forgot to say that I am a musician, played at many churches, but primarily my home church since 1978. I studied music at the U. Of Mo.-St. Louis and at Gambling State. So, I understand the business side. I am curious about their spiritual involvement in what they're doing.
Church has always been from the beginning , the early church, has been a place of service unto the Lord. There's nothing wrong with giving a person a donation or a love gift. And yes sometimes the church does hire a prorfessional to doing something for the church, if that church lacks having a person with those gifts and talents. But these situations must be made crystal clear from the start, that are you bringing your gifts to the storehouse for the service of the Lord or is the Pastor hiring you as a professional.
My very own church didn't recognize me until I started playing at other churches and they started to hear about me and it caused a problem but I didn't care, I was able to help my mom send myself to school thanks to those churches that acknowledged me
All churches want musicians until they get one!
This is my thing…you see it as a job then it’s going to be a job regardless of your feelings. You do it as ministry it is in a different light. Some people are just church hurt and need healing.
I went to school to read and learn sheet music and I also play by 👂 ear so I understand both sides. This was awesome conversation
Since when did ministry unto the Lord become about being catered too? I'm a singer as well it's about honoring God not ourselves. I'm there to please God not fill my pockets God supplies all my needs to his riches and glory. If take of God he'll take of me.
When churches became organizations-employees started getting paid.
Then they also should pay taxes.
As a musician and a Pastor, I have observed and witness the foolishness on both ends! And needless to say it’s a sinful shame!
It’s not about pay! It’s your service to God. People in the church won’t even pick up a piece of paper with asking for a check smh.
I understand that but I get pay too from my home church when I visit to play and I play for white people and they take care of me too so I don't really understand
Required check vs an offering (blessing)
🥰😍😍🥰
If a musician so chooses to sew their talents into their church home for free that should be that musicians CHOICE, but it certainly should NOT be his/her/their EXPECTATION. As a leader of a church I would think you wouldn’t want to expect a church member to see because what happens if that person finds another church home? What happens to the music ministry?
Have a stable budget for your church ministry or be prepared for a stop and start music ministry for your church if you’re depending on donated/free labor.
Service for the Lord, doesn't need payment,our payment is our obedience to God's word, through Jesus Christ!
To a certain extent I agree with you I wish I could talk to you more about this I have so much to say
The laborer is worthy of his hire I get wat ur saying but this has always been a huge issue not tht it's about money all the time but ppl gotta be compensated
@@canandwill1 do all the laborers get compensated?
Church size has nothing to do with my craft ! We’re not hired based on your congregation size. We are hired based on our ability which doesn’t change if it 2 ppl or 2000
The difference between a cop and a security guard at church is , you being a security guard at church doesn’t take blood sweat or tears !! Using your gift does. Studying music all week, studying parts to then teach to ppl who aren’t even musically inclined 80% of the time , being put forth to invoke the Holy Ghost etc does not compare to a damn security guard! Your service can go on without security but how effective is a service with bad singing and bad instruments
I just wanted to address part of your comment.Being a security officer at church doesnt take blood ,sweat and tears however it does takes courage. Im sure several churches like Starrville Methodist Church and Emmanuel African Episical Church wish that they had a security detail like The West FReeway Church.So that their members are able to worship without worrying about their safety. Come to think of it Jesus 12 disciples were more of a security team and he saved souls and didnt have a band playing behind him. So with this being said all services provided by church members should be appreciated.
Musicians/singers do not “invoke the Holy Ghost”. I think that mindset is part of a big problem in the black church.
This is a touchy situation. I used to "play" for a church, growing up I served in every auxiliary from the front to the back. I "served" my churches I was never compensated. I've ministered in many churches never signed a contract, whatever they felt like they wanted to give me. Sometimes being led by the spirit I would give an offering back to a church. Former military, trained security officer, armed and unarmed. Serve on the security team at my current Church, and I'm also their Bishop. I don't get paid, as they're overseer or security personnel, I have an occupation. Am I wrong, maybe I shorted myself. I don't get compensated I still feel like I'm serving.
Interesting topic why should you pay some and not others. Pastors, ministers, choirs, praise leaders, deacons, trustees, missionaries, ushers custodians, kitchen. Where does it start, where does it end. Some Churches give you compensation for perfect attendance, should you pay the members too.
But also I've been in Caucasian churches in ministry and they give me a love offering that would pay me for a whole month for one service, versus the black church where I have to work twice as hard and just enough gas money to get there and back. Interesting topic, it is cultural, but maybe I grew up different, I'm 54 years old. I wasn't really compensated for my talents or anointing, but I felt like I was called to serve so I was never really upset. Maybe I was taught different, or maybe I was manipulated. And then one of the speakers brought up an interesting point, how come we can't find talent within our own organizations, but we will pay somebody to come in and do what we could do. And no we are not treated right in our church. That's another point I go away from home to get treated much better. Wow...
Good topic of discussion.
Did I hear someone mention Pilgrim Assemblies,
I was a member years ago under the Bishop Roy Brown. I learned a lot from Archbishop, miss him. The the early days, I was just a baby.
Grace and Peace, blessings
Bishop Hough
The Bishop at the end, should I get paid more I'm also educated.
🤔 🤣🤣🤣
The same Bishop Brown that did not consider his wife after death... ????? Who they threw out of her house on the streets after she took great care of that man?? Sooooooooo disrespectful!!!! He most definitely had a dogmatic very very extremely arrogant personality!!! Stop making mini Gods out of these folks because of titles and SERVE JESUS with your whole heart!!!
You said it right... manipulation ... just dressed up as spirituality.. that is all!!!! Church is a breeding ground for people with sadistic and controlling personalities.. they love to go into ministry... but if you as a believer follow the rule of NO IDOLATRY.. you will always be able to see more clearly! Everything the preacher says and teaches is not right because of a title and clergy collar! Many in the five fold ministry GOD DID NOT CALL and THEY DO NOT BELONG TO HIM.. because THEIR MOTIVES AND HEART Are NOT RIGHT!!!
Musicians... do what you do because you love God... and don’t let ANYONE IN LEADERSHIP shame you into being manipulated .... used... and abused!
@@jatall2797 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
The question should be why do they feel like they should not pay the singers but they pay the musicians let's talk about this
When the chief Levite uses their gift for free, I’ll follow suit.
Everybody love using the Levite but you need to read that again!! This time all the way through!! I guess I would be the Levite in the church that God commissioned my husband to pastor! Levite is a priest! Did you know that? Let’s delve further, the Levite was in charge to minister in WORD (scripture, gospel, word of life) AND be in charge of the music. Oh yeah and I don’t get paid A salary; it’s my service for the Lord! People need to understand that organized religion and organizations misusing The Temple Of God will get served by the Lord himself….they are nothing but hirelings!! PERIOD!! And shame on these churches for hiring these unhinged luciferians who enter to get paid only to entertain and bounce! Oh yes and I have grown children who played for celebrities but understood they better not even think about coming this way requesting a salary! And they play as a service for the LORD AND LOVE HIM DEARLY! And for this God has opened doors for them that no man can close! Believe thou this!!
And let the church say, Amen.
@@deannte8903 AMEN!!
I'm fine with playing for free when the pastor and guest speakers, bishops stop taking any money. Just raise offering 1 dollar per member, per week.
I played drums for years in church in the 70s i did it to praise god not for pay thats why i say church is a joke now.
A workmen is worthy of their hire.
Mussel not the ox that treadeth out the corn. If a man doesn’t work he doesn’t eat. Pay the people for the work. They are providing a service it’s worth compensation.
I don't care what nobody say. Musicians should be paid. Pastors that are debating this are ones who don't want to pay. As a musician I have been used and abused and taken advantage of. Especially by those in leadership.
People will do more for you if you are kind , appreciate them and celebrate them. I love that
How about the musician that doesn't attend Sunday school, prayer service or stay in the building for the sermon and only come in for the pastors drive.
Musicians STILL do that? 😳😳🤣🤣
I played in church since I was 8 started (OJT) On The Job Training. I went to school to learn music theory and to play better. I wasn’t being paid. The pastor preached all over the place and expected us to be there. They expected us to be at Bible class. If someone was tarrying for the Holy Ghost and the service was extended another 10, 30, 45, 60 or 120 minutes we were expected to play. Still no pay. Our choir had to sing on a program and the choir after us sang. The musician from that choir came to me after service and said how much he enjoyed us. He asked me if I teach, I told him yes. He asked how much would it cost for you to teach me? I told him my price then, he says oh good let ask my pastor if he would pay for the lessons on top of my salary? I said to myself, he’s getting paid to play? Honestly, he wasn’t that good at that time. Had to ask myself what’s wrong with this picture? I was playing for a church (good sized church) who could afford to pay any musician out here. I wasn’t even getting a thank you. They told us - if you don’t have the golf ghost - we don’t want to hear you play at all. When there were problems in the music section they threatened to sit the choir and musicians down.
I know pastors who are musicians and they don’t pay their musicians anything. They don’t keep musicians either. The pastor every so often has to step back in the role of musician and then preach after he plays.
When you are called by God You don’t need to be paid it’s a Gift from God. Jesus will Provide for his children
The Bible also says that a workman is worthy of his hire. They definitely should be compensated.
Preach!!! All these musicians were in some worldly stuff and there were some other stuff going with them too. This was not a good panel for any young musician to learn from and you wonder why we have problems with musicians in the church.
It’s going to take people to pay what God provides???!!! Try having a service w/o music… the same people complaining will leave. That’s for free.
Wrong, that ain’t even in the word 😂
OMG SHE IS TELLING THE WHOLE TRUTH & NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH👏👏👏👏👏👏💯💯💯💯💯%%%%
THIS CONVERSATION WAS EXTREMELY MISLEAD WHEN THE PASTOR OF THAT CHURCH GOT THE MIC. 1. Pay your musicians if you can and as best as you can. But a musician (at their home church) shouldn’t need to be payed to be committed. That’s a hireling not a servant. I’m not a pastor but I am a worship leader and I’m astute in singing and vocal arranging. I’ve never been paid from my home church and I don’t get paid and they don’t have to pay me to lead worship to conduct rehearsals or direct the choir. God will reward me. And I bless him for it!
What about the preachers who won’t come to your church without a deposit before they even step in the door? Same conversation to me.
They're not gonna talk about that.
WHEEEW MAAAANNN THEY AIN’T READY FOR THAT TALK YET!!! 🗣😭😭😭😂
@@rodneykoerber8896 right
I was thinking the same question....if the musicians/singers don't get compensated...why should the minister/preacher/pastor be compensated....make it make sense to me...
I will talk about it!! As a wife of a pastor and a owner of a university and children who have been utilized as ‘professional’ musicians. This is what happens when so-called leaders creates churches as a secular business!! Now everybody has a price on their head and for their gift!! ALL OF IT IT IS WRONG!! Period!
If I hear “sow a seed one more time”, I think I’m going to nut up! As a preachers kid, it has gotten so old and sad that “church folk” keep asking for money over and over! God like a cheerful giver, not a badgered giver! We have to remember our position and purpose and responsibility…especially on the church!
💯💯 YES!
Many valid points shared in this discussion! Well...
Peace and blessings to all. 🙂
I PERSONALLY do not believe people’s gifts are prostituted simply because they play secular music. If u want the services, u should pay the people. Yes, if ur church budget is a certain amount and u make that clear…either the musician will accept it or they won’t. I’ve been inside a church organization that did not pay the musicians @ all nor did they treat them well. I’m the Minister of Music @ my church and the Choir Director and it’s a relief to know that I don’t experience any of these issues and never have. Lots of Black Churches do not honor Praise & Worship Leaders & Choir Directors. And the sister is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. These issues are MAINLY inside the Black Churches and it needs to stop!!!!
I’m still not understanding why the musicians don’t understand that it was God that gave them the gift in order to edify His body. There are literally people lined up and begging the Lord to use them as a vessel in order to help someone in need. I like what the Pastor said when he stated that other people have a 9 to 5 and still sacrifice their time in order to serve in the church. Any service that’s done in the church should not be looked at as a job regardless of how these musicians spin it. I have literally seen musicians refuse to play one key at a struggling church that couldn’t pay them what they wanted or agreed to initially. Since when do we need contracts for church servitude? Musicians are no different than any other servants in the church. Use the gift that the Lord gave you as an offing up to him, vice a skill used for self edification and have faith that He will open a door to a job that will pay your bills. One of the musicians on the panel actually referred to his ability to play as a skill vice a gift. That confirmed that some are not in it for the right reason thus proving why this topic has become so controversial. This is, if it’s not actually, skirting the lines of self worship and it’s hard for me to believe that God is pleased with the type of behavior. It’s not a question of whether this is a cultural thing. This issue is a matter of the heart. Regardless of how you are treated, if the Lord called you for a purpose, your only objective, even in the mist of adversity, should be to serve that purpose. What would have happened if the great Patriarchs like Moses, Joshua, Joseph, Elisha etc would have refused to serve their purpose because of the stiff necked people they encountered. None of us would be here. They persevered through adversity and sacrificed for the work of the Lord and there are so many of God’s people who are still doing that today. Who has bewitched these people and sold them this lie? There are people waiting on someone to help them through ministry(servitude) and people arguing over how different cultures brought them coffee, and donuts, and asked if theirs shoes needed to be tied. If that’s what dictates your willingness to serve, someone needs to go back to the Alter and ask God for a heart like His. Jesus Himself refused servitude from His disciples, who by they way, abandoned Him as He served His purpose. He still went to the Cross to die for the very people who crucified Him. He washed their feet as an example on how we should serve one another with no strings attached and regardless of our status or abilities. If we use Jesus as the example, we should know the conclusion of this matter.
🙌🏾🙌🏾❤
I’m not allowing the church to get by without paying me because the church is the only institution I know that wants you to do everything for free. I don’t know one pastor that pastors and preach for free every week. This ought not even be up for discussion. The church has prostituted my gift for too long!
SPEAK ON IT. cuz they really get paid for preaching, so why i gotta sing for free ??
Nobody is to demand to get paid for doing anything for Christ......all this stuff that is going on in the church house nowdays not ordained by God....the Bible says to go out and work to provide...
@@bluetruckhos9926 1 Timothy 5: 17, 18. This speaks about ones who rule over you (pastors) are worthy of compensation ($). Check it out.
I know pastors that preach for free.
Speeeeeeeeeeeeeeak Sir
If your church is dependent upon that singer/musician and has expectations from them (like being on time for services, etc), they should get paid - no questions asked. If they have the option to play, sing or miss services and rehearsals, then there should be no pay. I don't understand why this is so hard for people to comprehend.
This is one of the most debated thing in the world of music. I believe that musicians should know that their Talent can be marketed, but their gift isn't for selling.
That means pastors shouldn’t get paid
1 chronicles 9:33 speaks on the chief musicians getting paid so if it’s good for the pastors why not the musicians i totally agree with u
Pastors should not get paid a salary. Scripture supports giving them an offering.
💯💯💯💯
I,don't see specifically that the scriptures speak about getting paid in 1 chronicles 9:33 speak about singers being hired to sing but no wages. I use to here the myth of musicians are worthy of there hired but that's wasn't what it meant in scriptures it was talking about elders being honoured. I believe that musicians should be paid for services rendered but like in the scriptures the way the Most High will ordain it. We need the Most High to help us as a people to maintain order. Musicians set the tone for the congregation and it's been talented for granted. Black churches always trying to scheme people and they need to stop. The Most High is waiting and watching every thing.
Wow. The beautiful young lady in the green! She spoke the truth. Many times, I, Go to different churches, as well as musicals and events, where people of religious stature look at us (especially those of us who they don’t think look the part) and turn up their noses, and these are people of my own color. Then if you mention something about it, the first thing they’ll say is your ego is in question when it’s actually theirs.
So, I can definitely get behind what she was saying about going where people treat you and your gift with mutual respect and appreciation rather than a begrudged dollar amount that they won’t even speak to.
Now, I’m not wholly concerned about the money piece because God has always provided for me whether the church paid me or not. I was in a situation where My term was complete at a church and my household finances took a substantial pay cut, yet God never missed a beat. Thank you Jesus. I’m a witness that God will provide for his own but I do agree with what she said about us going to school and paying out to learn your craft, and to have that time and practice monetarily appreciated when the church is going to be the recipient of the end result and prayerfully as the music ministry and all ministries of the church improve according to the leading of the Holy Spirit, tithes and offering would go up and the church would thrive in a business sense as well as spiritually.
Many of us take out student loans, work to put ourselves to school, go hungry in those nights in the dorm when we don’t have much money, take on opportunity after opportunity To get used to performing in front of people (Who are not always very accepting) and to build up our confidence, and learn new tricks of the trade that the church benefits from whenever we play. And then, when we have gotten The credentials, the bachelors and sometimes the Masters degree as well, We have to work ourselves up to build credence as a first rate musician/minister of music/choir director/vocalist/Music consultant and those who nickel and dime us for asking for specific amounts (starting with an efficient fee that satisfies both parties and working our way up to more supplemental rates as our skill set and demand grows.) don’t really help the situation. In fact, when they do this, they inadvertently cause us to second guess our own worth, then fight with our own selves to keep from second-guessing.
Let me duck because I don’t want anybody throwing the tomatoes on me for what I’m about to say. But I’m also feeling the church’s plight. There are some that cannot afford the rates that musicians charge but they still want quality service. Knowing they don’t have the money to do so, they do what they can to raise a substantial amount for the musician and they do it with a giving and loving heart. Churches like they are scarce but they are out there. And to get on the flipside, some churches are respectful to musicians that are arrogant, condescending, and just downright mean. Those are the churches I feel the most sorry for because the arrogant musician Is taking up space that could be occupied by someone who is humble, who knows his skill set, and is confident in what God has given him.
In short: I believe that all sides could stand self reevaluation- The musicians in how we treat the people in the church and the people in the church in how they treat musicians.
The brother that responded to the first question a very strong point. The cop and the fried chicken chef all have secular jobs that pay their bills so they can freely serve at church. But the musicians are to only serve in church with no pay...because if they ever try to use their gift to feed their families in the secular you start hearing words like "prostituting" and that's a tame one. What are they supposed to do? They cant play outside church and still be accepted as good Christians.. ...but they should not be paid for playing in church. Yet folks are shouting about that...it shows what the sister in green was saying is true. Too many black churches have no compassion for their own musicians they love to pick a part if the music dont hit the way they want to. You treat musicians like jukeboxes and they will act like one...pay to play.
Come on now! You're preaching!
Not all churches have the financial ability to pay musicians. If there are only 30 members, how are they going to pay an organist $250 a week? Maybe a once in a while love offering would be nice!
So true if your humble of a few and little god will reward u with much. Be thankful and faithful to your church until God says other wise
If you don’t have the funds to hire those musicians, don’t hire those musicians.
If ur church is broke then… just say that 🤷🏿♂️
@@joegurt2957 facts that's not even a smart financial investment. But black churches always gotta be grand and show out tho😒 if you got 30 members and the offering on Sundays is $250 don't hire a musician that wants $250 to play its that simple
Have we forgotten what the tithing was for? Taking care of the household of faith. You want a dedicated levite pay his wages. If you can't support him, don't stop him from using the gift God gave him to make a living. 🚶🏾♂️
Musicians work so hard to contribute towards services. I think it’s extremely unfair to not pay them and make their lives easier.
I know they're having this LONG convo about why musicians should get paid. 1. It's simply because weekends are work days for musicians. They are actually the days musicians could be making money somewhere else. But instead, they're taking their paid days and playing for the church. A security Guard, Cook/ anything else is generally going to have a 9-5 monday through friday, however musicians make the bulk of their income on weekends. I believe a church should honor them for that financially. But not only financially, the church should honor them and treat them as more than a hireling. They should also offer them family and community and a safe place to be pastored. The other thing we have to think about is... that for white churches, it's more normal to have musicians on rotation. They usually dont have the SAME drummer every week, and sadly things are just more organized and we haven't really figured out how to get the planning center thing going... so often times, musicians in our churches end up just feeling used and abused. Anyway... yea... that's my two cents.
I really enjoyed this discussion .
Great points on both sides. I’m a musician, very skilled on multiple instruments. Some musicians think the church will make them financially set. Not. The smart thing to do as a musician is to get a job during the week because there is no 401k, retirement, social security playing for the church. Playing at church should be extra income. As far as respect, everyone deserves respect. Us as musicians can’t come in and demand honor and respect. That should already be there but if it’s not, you shouldn’t be there. At the end of the day, being a musician, pastor, singer is not going to put us in heaven faster then anyone else. Peace and blessings to you all…
I don’t get paid, and I prefer it like that. When you take the money out of it, you don’t have to worry about contracts and how I’mma put food on the table. You can really play in the spirit.
I went to school as a classically trained pianist, and eventually blessed to be able to play in church. I read music, know my music theory, write musical notes, I studied to be a band director, play by ear, sing, able to teach the choir, play the drums, play wind instruments, and etc. I got out the “business” of being a church musician. I could have easily played for a White church with my musical background for a lot of compensation, but I prefer being in Black churches because that is how I was raised. I experienced the most hurt in the Black church because everybody knows music better than me and can make me feel bad for their song not being played the way they believe it should, but don’t the first thing about playing a note on a piano. I went to college for education, and blessed to have a corporate job so a church gig never paid my bills. It was just a supplement income, and I could barely get at most $150.00 from a church. That included all the stank attitudes from church members. I should have went to play for White churches, but I didn’t. I had to get out of playing because the last church had me on the brink of kicking ass during service, and I was going to start with the pastor…the stress, hell, and drama ain’t worth it!
I understand sorry you went thru all that. I am glad you found your peace a Job that you love outside of the church.
Ministry is of the Lord, walking by the spirit, this is not a job, but this is ministry!
Will you say that again!! God did not give His gifts for us it's for the GLORY of God. Get a job!!!
But this is where I have to agree to disagree, it’s only fair if you call me to come play at your church and I’m not a member that I get paid, your hiring me for a JOB so yes I’m going to be paid. Y’all be saying get a job but most of them do have jobs and they are referencing when they are asked to go out to sing and play at other churches, events etc. but if you heard what the lady in the green said it’s how you treat people, and if you treat her well she will go even if the person doesn’t have the money.
@@ladidi4935 Get a job? What do you think minstrel ministry is? You sound like a lazy spirited, ungrateful soul... I am not one, but musicians in the Black Church get fed up because of ppl like you and your mindset.
Right!
This comment is so ignorant... what do you think the definition of work is? It’s a job!!!! ...
The Bible says it is A GREAT SIN TO COVET !!!! Stop being Jealous of Musicians, their talent.. their pay.. and of the many doors God opens for them .. because it is the BIBLE that says a man’s gifts will make room for him and take him before great men .. the Bible says a worker is worthy of his wage ... stop using and abusing Gods servants in not doing right by them in the matters of business.. God is not in that .. that’s the devil all day!!! Stop hating on talented people who develop their skills to a degree of excellence!!! Stop receiving money on your job, but then have the audacity to tell someone else what they should not receive when they are hired for a job that they do well and are qualified for in the business of ministry!!
Stop preaching a prosperous God but you as has servant are always looking for someone to use, abuse, and always want something for free and don’t want to pay for it .., always poor mouthing and doing people wrong.. especially in business .. like everybody owe you something free because you go to church.. when THEY DONT... but you the first one who wants to throw scripture around with no integrity or business about yourself.. trying to shame a musician because they will not work for you for free... the devil is a liar...
What the lady said about how she was treated in a white church vs a black church was spot on. I've had the SAME experiences ..... and to this day, it's the reason that I rarely play in a black church.
It depends on the church! Most churches will play their musicians, and then some musicians will just play, because that is their way of giving back to the Lord, what He gave them! Peace!
Every person in this panel need to listen to Juanita Bynum “Church on the Rockin Oxen” preached at Rod Parsley’s church. This is that word coming to fruition
What about appreciating someone (a musician) for the simple fact that they accommodated your church needs?
I need you in my life!
My God This Is Really Deep...I'm Seriously Speechless Now And Don't Know What To Say And That's All Ima Say...
The musicians and singers in the bible were called LEVITES and they GOT PAID !
The Levites were the priest who worked and looked after the temple and people, God said they should not work and the people should support them. Two different things.
@@msjay025 1 Chronicles 9:33 "Those who were musicians, heads of Levite families,stayed in the rooms of the temple and were exempt from other duties because they were responsible for the work day and night."
@@msjay025 Levites were more than the priest. They were a whole tribe that was responsible to take care of the things of the temple, to make sure the worship (singers and music) was in the temple 24/7.
Now what people miss is that the tithe is to make sure that there is meat in the storehouse.... well who is eating the meat? the Levites. The tithe was to take care of the affairs of the temple and its caretakers. Blood and fat are the offerings of the Lord and the lean meat was given to the Levites to eat.
Point? Musician in modern churches are not levites
I can agree with a lot that has been said by each musician. I started playing at 7( by ear ) I've been a (church musician) since I was 14 years old.I became a Minister music at twenty-one, I've have took some music classes but my gift is my strongest area. I've had them bring other musicians, and over me give other musicians my job. At one church we were required to be there four days a week only paid one time(not a great salary) plus working at the church day care for basically free. I have been lied to with the contract or without I have played for events and been told that I will be compensated and get finished with the event and no check. I have serve at most black denomination other than cogic.I've had churches to honor vacations sick days I've had churches not to even give you a love day, raise appreciation yearly. At times I thought maybe it's time to quit maybe it's time to retire and I can just be a bench warmer but it's just something on the inside of me I love God and I love what I do.i have also had the pleasure of been asked to come back(everything that glitter isn't gold) Being a psalmist, MOM and minister is my calling.I know that I'm not the best at it but I'm anointed to do it and that's what makes the difference so I'm going to keep on pressing on.To each musician that read my post you keep your head up, fight for what you is yours and know your worth know when it's time to walk away. Stay humble, and prayerful in all that you do, and watch God exalt you in his time. Study to show yourself approve a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the "Word of Truth". No that your work is unto God, I want to hear him say Well done. Blessings ☺
I feel like some people here are questioning people's integrity for expecting to be paid. And to use frying chicken or being an usher as a comparison to being a musician? That's a reach sir lol. If you weren't paid and you're okay with that, then that's absolutely fine. Some people expect more for their hard work/talent, and that's okay too.
Correct me if i'm wrong but there's nothing in the Bible that says musicians/singers "should or should not be paid" so there really isn't a right answer here.
So if you have a choir with 50 people in it, should they all get paid?
@@samuell.woodsii7109 The choir doesn’t put in the same amount of work as musicians do. A choirs’ job is usually done on Sunday, with a rehearsal in the week to be taught parts.
@@samuell.woodsii7109 Generally a church choir is comprised of members of the church who believe they can sing and want to sing for their church. These people most likely are not trained or skilled to the level of a professional bgv. Thats the difference. If you want me to come to your church and sing like the record then yes im gonna have to do a little more practice and training to give that sound then the person that comes to sing with 20 other tenors. Praise team usually sings more difficult music and has to have a different level of commitment so yes if the church has it I see nothing wrong with something to compensate those individuals who devote their gifts and talents time and energy to the house of God.
Actually there is.
What's more important to your body?
Pancreas, liver, or bladder?
Which one would you appreciate or pay for services rendered?
Are not all equally important in their various allocations?
The problem today is people have elevated preachers to privileges, while neglecting other people's services to ministry.
Let respect be restored. As the early Church shared resources.
I have been singing in churches practically all of my life. I was actually paid one time for singing at a church I was visiting. I was so shocked that the members paid me, because I had never experienced being paid before by people in a church. This let me know that they appreciated what I shared with them. I ended up putting the money back in the offering plate, because I felt guilty about getting paid to do what God put in me to do. However, over the years, I have wondered why musicians usually get paid, but not singers. It's like singers are taken for granted being the fact that we also put in the work to learn the songs. On the other hand, if we are sharing our gifts and talents for the Lord, whether it be musicians, singers, preachers, the hospitality ministry, teachers, etc., no one should be getting paid, but if you ARE going to pay one group, then pay all. If not, funds need to go to the orphans, widows, the food banks, the Salvation Army, to others in need, and also to the upkeep of the church. This is my opinion.
If you feel that you are better in any way than those who do not take the money.....you already have your reward. Let others who arent rewarded be means of self reflection, accept a reward of their own choosing....be it appreciation, flowers, praise or dollars. Let every man have the desires of their own heart..... If you desire to see money taken out of the pockets of another....money will flee from you as well.
@@rayjgold No, that has never been my desire. If people feel the presence of God, that's all that matters to me. If people's spirits are lifted that is what matters to me. If someone is healed,that is what matters.. God ultimately blesses me. So, I have no worries. As long as I do as He instructs me to do. He will provide the rest. I am blessed, my family and friends are blessed. You are blessed. I am the daughter of the King! I am blessed coming and going, and living in abundance!
You probably have a day job too. Remember most musicians can make a living playing, singers come a dime a dozen, I don’t know any singer that makes a living singing.
This was such a good discussion. i forwarded this to my church family!
No its not.
@@purpleprince2598 how come?
The FATHER GOD gave me the gift to play drums for HIS Glory. To praise HIM and lift HIM up with Righteousness, with Glory and Honor. If this is the reason and the purpose. Then why use your gift for money when in the eyes of GOD. Money is the root of ALL EVIL. WHY! So, you would rather choose something the FATHER GOD deemed to be evil? If the church chooses to pay you, that's a totally different thing. If the pastor of the church makes a contract with you and chooses to pay you. That's cool. The point I'm trying to make is. Be careful of which God you choose to serve. If you choose to use your talent/s to Glorify the FATHER GOD and HIS Son cool but, if you choose money over GOD........that's cool to. Just know this. There is a heaven and a hell. You either choose to serve the FATHER GOD or you can choose to serve Satan. Heaven and he'll does exist.
I attended a predominantly a White church for years in the Assembly of God & sang on the worship team & was a deacon where no one, but the pastor received a salary. Musicians who are members in their churches should not get paid to play. It's call ministry. Once you are paid then pay taxes & what is the real motivation. There is nothing wrong playing secular music. It is honest job. No job shaming.
Oh PLEASE... It's still ( a JOB ) & when you're asked to learn music for a choir or praise team. You're also asked to play at rehearsals & back the Pastor/Preacher. Its A JOB ( so pay them )
Right, church is business period
You are RIGHT !
Wrong! It’s a heart thing, and the heart of the greedy black church is being exposed. And I am leader of worship team and minister and devotion leader.
@@Ash2beauty if u can’t pay the musicians because ur broke… just say that 🤷🏿♂️ y’all love to use the disguise of “morals” to back your lack of funds to pay the musicians…
Every role in the church is a job. Teachers, cleaners, so why are we elevating one over the other?
Thank you for sharing this panel discussion. I wish that there would a standard on this topic but, there is not. I have played for several ministries and have been mistreated by the bulk of them whether I am playing for free or if I am being paid.
This is not the time nor the season about this..It's about your souls and other souls in the streets to win.
Exactly. Focusing on the wrong stuff which is money. Roman's 11:39. What would I t profit to gain these things but lose your soul?
I agree the time is far spent ..I'm a promoter for artists and I find myself discipling half these artists sometimes you have to help help to serve not everything is or should be a price tag
💯💯💯
The problem is that they are playing for the church vs playing as a form of worship unto the Lord. He paid you when he gave you your talent.
Is it possible to do both?
Do Jesus charge us for showing up to our services? I’m not a musician so that’s probably why I don’t get why people are paid to do the work of the Lord. Do it for free as a way of paying God back. For giving the gift to us.
I wholeheartedly agree with you and even before I watched a little bit of the video, I was thinking the same thing and for us to think that God owes us something or that we should be "compensated" for something that he freely gives is selfish to me. I sing and have been doing so since I was a child and not one time in my 55 years did I ever request or demand to be paid or compensated for ministering before the Lord. When people would ask me to sing at weddings, they would ask me what I charge I would tell them nothing but if they feel led to bless me with something, I would let them make that decision, even when I would sing at funerals, same rule. Salvation is free.😌
@@subrennaevans6504 I WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE WITH YOU. 🙏❤😊
@@subrennaevans6504 I agree with you sis! I’m 42 been ushering since I was 12. Never had to ask for a payment to be a door keeper at the house of the Lord. But because of my faithfulness to God and His house, He has blessed me tremendously!
Ok if that’s the case then do not complain about the quality of music you get at a church I’m sorry I’m a drummer who work 2 full time jobs and my only time off is on thursday nights and Sunday the night of rehearsal and when you have to balance time with family, house hold and other responsibilities to balance so don’t nobody wanna have to balance all that practice music outside the church and come into Sunday service for a 4-5 hour service that’s time wasted
@@soultonemike4561 💯💯💯💯💯