Delta B772 has COMPRESSOR STALL AT LAX | Dumps Fuel all over LA!
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
- A Delta Airlines Boeing 777-200 (N860DA) performing flight DAL89 from Los Angeles KLAX to Shanghai Pudong ZSPD was climbing out of Los Angeles when the crew stopped the climb at 8000 feet reporting right hand engine compressor stalls. The crew subsequently advised they had brought the engine back under control, just needed to slow down and requested to land on runway 25R. Pilots said they didn't need to dump any fuel. The aircraft was vectored for an ILS approach to runway 25R for a safe landing.
![[REAL ATC] Brickyard SUFFERS TRIM RUNAWAY | CONTROL ISSUES at Atlanta](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RzoEsM0L2CM/mqdefault.jpg)
*3 hours working non-stop editing* this video to have it up as soon as possible. Unfortunately I was unable to pick some frequencies and communications but the most important exchanges were recorded.
Delta has confirmed that the pilots dumped fuel as an emergency procedure to reduce weight. All video footage I have seen shows DAL89 dumping while on the localizer. Even though we didn't hear them request fuel dump, they might have requested that on 124.9 which we didn't happen to record - or maybe not and dumped by themselves. 30 people were reported injured on the ground due to fuel rain.
Incredibly fast turn around since this just made the google news feed. Thanks!
They dumped fuel over 3 elementary schools, over 70 students where injured
YOU ARE AWESOME!!!!
Well done and thank you. As soon as a I saw the story break I thought of your channel to get the play by play!
VASAviation - Thank you for getting this out so quickly. Very impressive.
I am a former flight dispatcher for a large international airline and this is all kinds of wrong. I don't like second guessing the captain but I have to ask why he didn't shut down the engine and take the hold offered him out over the water. This is an ETOPS certified aircraft and can safely fly for hours on a single engine. He said himself they weren't critical. If it was critical an aircraft can be landed above max weight with some care. It might bend some metal but if the captain knows his stuff it is doable. I think there are going to be a lot of questions asked.
NTSB investigators are already frothing at the mouth over this
James Thompson Just a small note, if the compressor stall is resolved just by retarding the engine, you leave it running. It's an extra generator, an extra bleed source, and it doesn't create more drag by windmilling. I do agree with everything else you said.
@@jnbriss8517 The problem was it was continuing to stall and they had to keep getting it back under control. I agree the preferred action is to retard but this engine was giving a lot of grief, presumably.
and he dumped fuel well below 10,000 feet which is where you have to dump fuel he is totally screwed
@@jonarmedpiandsecurityoffic9051 Except the NTSB has nothing to do with this. No crash - no NTSB. This will be an FAA investigation only.
I just saw the report on the news. I knew this channel would certainly have the communications between the pilots and ground and, boy, you did not disappoint.
Keep up the good work.
Commanderraf - I wasn’t at all surprised to see he already had it on RUclips either!!! ❣️My first thought was... ‘of course he’s gotten it on already!’
www.liveatc.net/search/?icao=LAX
@Mark Grudt But as PIC he is allowed to change his opinion at any time for the lives of his pax!
@@watchgoose yeah I think he must've underestimated himself. And realized he needed to lighten load when he started leveling off for approach.
Jester: "That was some of the best flying I've seen to date - right up to the part where you dumped fuel on the school kids."
Perfect. Top Gun always tells the truths
@Barbara Rowley
If you think black radar backgrounds are depicting night time ops, would you be surprised to learn that the a/c t/o at ~ 11:30 am -- dumped -- then landed about 15 mins later?
lol, 10/10
@ This must be the absolute dumbest comment I've seen in a while, bravo.
@ _You're_ assuming a posting handle in a YT thread reflects reality... "there are no women on the internet". My opinion is, this bitch (of whatever gender) is a bot or professional troll. And probably Russian to boot.
Good job getting this posted so soon. Really well done too.
Thanks
Now these are some real chemtrails!
Great work on the video as usual.
Fueltrails
@@VASAviation jet fuel is a chemical.
Really? Is it?
@@pluto8404 more than one, actually.
"THE CHEMTRAILS ARE KILLING OUR KIDS!111!!!1!"
For once, the conspiracy theorists are almost kinda partially right.
Thanks VASA for posting this so quickly- I'll have something out tomorrow on this...lots to learn here. Juan.
Looking forward to your report Juan
The blancolirio in the house...
Been following VASA for quite some time now and I so appreciate this channel. Thanks to your comment here, Juan, I also found YOUR channel - so happy about that! Now a subscriber. Thank you both for awesome work!
/Chris.
And he did: ruclips.net/video/JzKny78Eylg/видео.html
What could be better than this VASAviation video with added commentary by a 777 FO?
Why of course, part 2 where Juan does a deep dive on fuel dumping and how it applies to this incident.
B-777 Fuel Dumping and Overweight Landing Considerations (Part II) ruclips.net/video/4D2Kj0t4t9s/видео.html
THANK YOU for your hard work to upload this so quickly. I was super interested in the situation surrounding this, because it is extraordinary to dump fuel over civilian areas. I was worried I would be waiting months to see this. Your hard work does not go unnoticed.
Is this the equivalent of taking a car on the race track and driving highway speeds? Only thing it actually does to the car is void the warranty.
This is going to garner a lot of attention in the industry. They will protect this guy as he did this under a declared emergency and pilots are allowed to do whatever they feel necessary to protect life. We do not want that authority broken or restricted. But, the FAA, Boeing and the airline will review with this pilot and cover any “better” options that were available to him. I’m sure it will be studied in every 777 recurrent training class all over the world for the next few years.
I’ve never heard the term, “We have it terminated” in my entire aviation career.
I think this crew needs to go back into the sim for some training. We train for engine fire, fails, and compressor stalls twice per year. You run all of the appropriate checklists and the overweight landing checklist (time permitting. In this case there was time permitting). That includes a fuel dump over the ocean. Not over the elementary school on short final.
and below the attuide for it and never told ATC i would think pilot is without a job tomroww
Nicky D No, he’ll ASAP it (covers his ass legally).
First off, an ASAP is not a get out of jail free card. Secondly, this is deltuh... how dare you accuse them of being anything but the best!!! They shit their pants, but came out of the cockpit wearing their hat.
@Togapower I don't think it says to do it on the glideslope 5 miles out.
@Togapower - As you know, the 777 is perfectly able to fly on one engine. So, dumping fuel over the ocean wouldn't be considered "screwing around", but doing a fuel dump at a very low altitude over populated area would be considered a screw up by the pilots.
Philippine Airlines had a similar accident a few weeks back on the -300ER at this airport but they didn't have to dump fuel. Landed with tires blown but no one injured. In my personal opinion, this is better than dousing a lot of people in fuel.
I been following your channel for awhile, once this hit news and my family was asking why would they need to dump fuel my hours spent on this channel provided them with a satisfactory answer. Kudos!
Reminds me of the time a US bound 747 suffered engine failure after takeoff from LHR to the west. Pilots reported emergency and were dumping fuel. ATC said negative on the fuel dump as the Queen was at Windsor Castle, The pilots asked the controller if Her Majesty would like the airplane and the fuel or just the fuel!
Pretty sure that's a myth, at least the dialog part. The original source is an air stewardess who used that story to market her book. It's highly unlikely the exchange between the pilot and the ATC unfolded the way she told it. Either she made it up to sell her book or the pilot told her that story later trying to impress her.
So he said he didn't need vectors in order to dump fuel over the ocean like he should have, but he decided to dump fuel anyways all over LA causing a massive PR nightmare, and all because of a single engine compressor stall. Looks like there is going to be a job opening at Delta.
My guess is that the pilots thought they could handle the situation, either not needing to dump fuel or, after assessing the problems, try to go into the ocean and dump it. You can hear them say that they have everything under control at 1:23, just before they start turning towards the airport -thinking everything is fine (or as fine as it can possibly be under those circumstances). But then at 3:23 you can actually hear him realize that this is more serious than previously thought, so they're not going to risk trying to get to the ocean to dump the fuel.
Was it was a crummy manouver to injure/poison those kids? Sure. But I think it's better to have a dozen of injured kids (which sucks big time, by the way) than 181 (plus crew) fatalities.
@@Commanderraf I think you're spot on. If you're on approach with one engine out and the other one at full power and you're barely maintaining altitude, dump that fucking fuel.
@@Treyorrrr The real problem here is that EVEN IF YOUR RIGHT. He made the piss poor decision to calculate his landing weight and landing power available on the assumption that an engine that was intermittent would aid in landing.
He was perfectly capable of flying for ages on one engine, long enough to dump fuel safely.
He should have done that because he should have basically hoped the engine stayed on, and planned for it not.
Honestly even from a maintenance perspective. Just shut the thing off, You can fly single engined. Adjust your trim and everything and go solo. Leaving on a faulty engine is honestly likely to lead to more trouble (like an engine fire) IMO (i'm not a pilot).
If he shut off the engine and acted as if it wouldn't come back on, he'd have dumped and returned safely.
@@Commanderraf He should have while being asked, acted as if the intermittent engine would fail at some point during the flight. And basically flight planned his emergency landing as if the engine was out completely.
Your scenario implies he basically pretended the intermittent engine WASN'T. The engine shut off and he suddenly didn't have the power needed to land at that weight, with a single engine. So he dumped.
But It was reckless and irresponsible to assume the compressor could be brought from 10,000 feet to 0 feet with no more failure.
@Dan Young Maybe under control at that instant, but situation changed and no time to communicate.
Pilot had way more urgency to "get 'er back on the ground" than the situation warranted, came in heavy, fast, and low, realized his mistake late, and instead of going around and getting vectors to burn/dump fuel properly, opens the dump valve. Yes his responsibility is first and foremost to his passengers, but this guy completely forgot about the people on the ground below him.
Does that really make sense? If you are fast and low, why not just climb a bit?
@vonnikon if you're heavy you're, unfortunately, going to be fast. The wings have to produce more lift to not stall. There is a substantial change in stall speed when you have more fuel. To climb when you're heavy takes more speed, too, so he'd end up going even faster. He had to dump fuel but given that the compressor had stopped stalling he probably should have flown another pattern and dumped in the bay.
Captain for a major airline here. I too never second guess a flight crew, but terminology and overall handling of the situation by the Delta crew, was somewhat questionable. The appropriate checklist for the 777 will have told the aircrew to land at the nearest SUITABLE airport ( regardless of ETOPS certification) and once directed to do this, declaration of an Emergency is standard ( the crew did this). For the length of flight that they were going to do, it should also have been readily apparent to the crew, that they were going to be above max landing weight, and that dumping of fuel was going to be necessary.
Ugh.... Some initial impressions from the perspective of an airline pilot. These guys were task saturated. I get the sense that when the engine stalled they immediately started turning towards the airport due to self induced time pressure instead of taking the time to breathe, think, and plan through the situation. The fact they were jettisoning fuel on final approach means the fuel dump was a reactionary afterthought instead of a critical part of their plan. The 777 is a very capable airplane even on one engine. Fuel jettison is supposed to be done at altitude and over the ocean!!
At 2200 feet did they make the right call? If they wanted to climb would they do it in a hold? If the other engine went out over LAX at 3000 feet they would have to set up for a 3-4 mile final and land with one attempt, obviously not safe. I think the right thing to do here is land heavy and they tried to, but company told them to do the dump. On second thought if they actually started dumping at 2200 they would have started to decide no later than 3000 feet. If they started to climb at 3000 they would hit LAX at 4000 and be far enough away that they could glide into lax without issue.
People will say hectic cockpit is an excuse, so I'm going to throw out any plans that would take more than 15 seconds or excellent awareness, specifically potential diverts at specific engine out locations. My thoughts, from no point from where they decided to fuel dump were they potentially unable to glide to a runway in the event of both engines out.
This case is extremely suspect, the pilots need to be thoroughly investigated for insider trading and gambling debts.
I am an ex Flight Engineer, military and civil, with 14,000 hours logged. My civil flying was on the 747-200, 300 and 200F. I was also the Fleet Technical Officer for the introduction of the B777 into the airline I worked for. I witnessed first hand how two pilot operation could rapidly turn from calm, controlled monitoring of the automated flight to being "task saturated" or, to put it more accurately, a rolling goat f***. The loss of the Engineer from large commercial aeroplanes was a serious degradation to flight safety. IMHO.
They obviously thought better of declining the fuel dump option; but it wasn't critical. They apparently implemented it as a safeguard; ill-advised, perhaps --- but it wasn't us sitting in the chair...
@@trashhauller The flight engineer became superfluous once aircraft no longer had 144 cylinders to monitor...
@@johfertitta5233 Not to mention once FADECs became a thing.
That sound you hear is all of Delta's lawyers and public relations people having heart attacks.
As punishment the pilots must write "I will not dump fuel on school kids" 100 times
Best comment here😂👍
5 5ense 5imulation Thanks!
@My Account source please
I'm in the UK and this made headline news! Amazing that you got this video out so quickly. Thanks. :)
I love your channel, idk why but I cant stop listening to these comms
31 patients, 20 children and 11 adults. Fuel was dumped over an elementary school. There were no major injuries according to the L.A. Country Fire Department.
VASAviation has always been a youtube gem, but you really outdid yourself on this one by getting it out so fast. I'd love to hear the explanation for fuel-bombing the neighborhoods along the approach. The pilot on the radio did have a note of urgency in his voice, so perhaps he had some reason for wanting the aircraft on the ground ASAP, like maybe the other engine was running perfectly either.
What caused the failure of the first engine? Can you guarantee that it won't cause the second engine to fail? For any engine failure, prudence demands landing as soon as practical. For doing so, most pilots would prefer to reduce the weight of the aircraft, to reduce the risk associated with an overweight landing. It sounds to me like they were already dumping fuel or about to start doing so as they passed north of the airport - notice how they begin asking for more time to fly - and then as you see in the video continue doing so as they come in down final.
As for the kids, well, jet fuel certainly isn't GOOD for you, but as long as they get cleaned up properly there shouldn't be any long-term effects.
@@BlackOpSource Makes sense, thanks.
@@BlackOpSource The 777 could fly perfectly safe with only 1 engine.
Sure they need to land soon, but it's not critical, they even said so on the comm, and there is no indication that the situation evolve to a more critical.
The plane is capable to land overweight, it just require more length, and the runway has plenty room for that margin.
They shold ask vector for dumping fuel if they feel the need, the ATC even ask couple of times. Yet they said no, only to dump it on short final. That is poor judgement.
Reduce the weight to mitigate the risk is fine, but there is procedure to do so, and that's certainly not including showering jet fuel in dense population area and onto elementary school, that just inconsiderate, breaking the rule, and frankly.... dumb.
"Delta 89, do you need to dump fuel over the water?"
"Nah, we'll just dump it on some kids. I've heard it works for napalm."
Thank god none of the kids were smoking :D :D :D
Sick joke, but very .....!
@@cptcrogge They all vape now :(
@@DaveMcAnulty This just in: it's not safe to dump flamable material on children as they're all vaping instead of smoking now.
better than further fucking the fish people over, they've had it rough lately. The kids will grow out of it and have baller stories to bring up at parties in 10 years
Thank you for your quick, and lengthy, work on this! As soon as I heard about it, I sent you an email. But you'd already posted this! Bravo. Love this channel!
In California even a bag of peanuts needs a prop 65 carcinogen warning. Delta is soooooo screwed.
Q: Please state souls and amount of fuel on board.
A: I'll tell you after we pass the school.
Blancolirio sent me over here. Didn't know about this channel before.
Great service provided! Combination of the Audio with the Radar tracks provides a much better awareness of what is happening with the events.
Pretty bad dumping fuel over populated area and at low altitude.
kaimanson K they're saying on the radio delta 89 over flew several schools while dumping fuel and one elementary school was at lunch and some 50 kids were doused in Jet-A and a Los Angeles county hazmat team had responded to the school to decontaminate the students.
@@JonnyRicter You are correct, saw it on the news just a few hours ago, spraying (dumping) fuel around, someone one Instagram has the video of the aircraft dumping fuel.
@@kaimanson3174 I saw the plane make that right turn over my school
@@justinchen7677 let me tell you I'll be pretty upset if that happens over my kid's school.
#SaveTheFish
I’d like to add my own words of amazement you got this out so quickly! Great job!
Wait 5:01 so you're telling me LAX really has a vector/waypoint thing called Iron Man 2 lmfao
There are some good names in Massachusetts. BOATE, BOATT, BOATZ, BOSOX, BUCYK, CELTL, CELTS, COPLY, COUSY, DUNKK, FENWY, FOXBO, GLLET, HAVRD, IDEAR, JAWZZ, JFUND, LBSTA, NIMOY, ORRRR, PUDGY, REDSX, SSOXS, TEKKK, ,TEWKS, WANKA, WOLOL
counterfit5 what about BRADY, CHTRS, and DFLAT?
So cool
I live underneath the iron man approach its an odd mix of planes.
Like 80% of the traffic seems to be 737s & rjs from the pacific northwest but the rest is a variety of overseas widebodies & overnight cargo from anchorage
@@counterfit5 Lol WANKA. I bet there are 'rude' waypoints all over the world, if you can bother to look for them. A road in our village is called 'Bell end!'
Thanks for grinding this video out so quickly! Giving us the info the news hasn't even got too yet
There was absolutely no reason to just start dumping fuel in this situation. They could have secured the engine by either powering back or shutting it down, gone to an approved dumping area to dump down to landing weight, and then brought it in for landing. These guys seemed needlessly overwhelmed and ended up screwing the pooch.
True, fly the aircraft, a loss of engine on T/O out of LAX is pretty straight forward. Perform the necessary checklist, engine failure, severe damage etc. contact dispatch. Coordinate with ATC, vectors over ocean to higher altitude to jettison fuel if left engine is operating normally. Perform fuel jettison checklist. Use relief pilots to communicate with F/A’s and pax, and whoever else. Time permitting, diversion checklist, descent checklist, approach briefing, etc. they acted as though there was an urgency to get the aircraft on the ground immediately. Unless left engine was also surging, compressor stalls, rushing was not necessary and probably let to mistake of dumping fuel over populated area at low altitude causing numerous injuries.
we have no idea if this was a simple engine failure or not. Their good engine could have been fluctuating. Or maybe they did just screw up. Until at least CVR is released people shouldn't go off half cocked.
I agree, but does anyone take into consideration the effect on the poor pooch?
Just in case you don't know, "screwing the pooch" has an entirely different meaning.
Star Gazer--all I know is that the first time I heard it was way way back in the 60s when Gus Grissom yanked open the latch of his capsule just after splashdown,, causing it to fill with water and sink. It was termed then as "screwing the pooch". From Google: The phrase screw the pooch, meaning to mess up, commit a grievous error, was made famous in Tom Wolfe's book The Right Stuff. The phrase is a euphemism from US military slang. The original expression was fuck the dog and meant to waste time, to loaf on the job.
That was quick. Thanks for all your hard work making these videos. Just saw this on a new station and your video was already up and in my suggestions!
This one just made international headline considering they dumped fuel over schoolchildren
Well I doubt he knew they were there and certainly didnt do it intentionally, shit happens, its an emergency
I think we should be thankful the plane didn't crash into the school of children... We have very limited information and even parts of the ATC communication are missing. Situations can escalate fast in the cockpit and if they thought returning to LAX as soon as possible was the right idea maybe we should trust the judgement of these professionals until proven otherwise...
"not critical" "roll the trucks" "don't need to dump fuel" dumps fuel. Delta's finest right here. Morons really. Good job admiral.
He says negative at first for the equipment and then says "uh roll the trucks".
The pilots are very busy up there during this time. Determining what just happened, ATC, emergency checklist, setting up for the approach, Flight Attendants calling, flying the plane and dumping gas.
Oh sour blaming the whole airline? What ignorance!
I think you might need to listen to it again. Your listening comprehension needs some work.
While Delta doesn’t have the sharpest pitchforks in the barn, this is a new low. Sounds like two blithering idiots. Now to mitigate flak i’ll get, they ‘sound’ like blithering idiots, does not by any means mean they ‘are’ blithering idiots. The investigation will likely point out their faults, but that’s where the investigators make the big bucks. If they cannot manage this situation, fly the damned plane. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. Keep the blue side up, then go the right way, then answer the controller’s questions. Checklists fall after Aviate, and depending on situation, before Navigate. Just tell ATC you’ll call them, fly out to sea (no traffic there), get your shit together, then tell them you’re landing on 25R, roll the trucks, and that traffic management is their problem. Given the outstanding ETOPS certification of the 777, there is no reason to be in so much of a hurry. They’ve literally all day to work this out.
Man you're fast. Just seen the video of these guys dumping fuel a few hours ago
Not sure why they told ATC that they didnt need to dump fuel. I'm not a pilot, but I assume they would vector the plane away from populated areas to dump fuel. Theses guys doused a playground full of fifth graders.
yeah i saw the "news" video with the pussified crybabies talking about "wah it was scary wah"
@@googaagoogaa12345678 JP8 (or W/E equivalent fuel) is good for you! (Heavy sarcasm)
They didn't tell ATC that they didn't need to dump fuel. They told ATC that they didn't want to hold to dump fuel. Two different things. Holding when you have one operable engine and you're at or near max takeoff weight is not advised. Depending on the emergency, it is preferable to be over water or at high altitude before dumping, but a compressor stall on or shortly after takeoff would constitute a serious emergency.
They had the engine under control, we're not even sure if they needed equipment rolled. Plane is single engine ETOPS certified so flying with one engine is NOT so critical they could not safely held over the ocean to dump. Pilots are buffoons who will face the wrath of the FAA.
No. It was third graders.
Plane was later cited for public urination.
oh wow, an actual chemtrail
I've once read that after about 4000ft the dumped fuel is largley atomized (lacking a better word). Jet fuel doesn't really evaporate, it doesn't even burn very well. It's very much like Diesel and after a drop of about 4000ft it still won't be healthy but the concentration can't really harm you.
But about 2000ft above ground is not a place where you dump your fuel. Just do an overweight landning or even better stay at Fl80 and think.
so many geniuses in these comments...i once read even stupid people have opinions...while not exactly healthy...concentrating on them can harm you...
@@rodneyburns243 - and you are a captain of what?? A Nobody insulting valid commenters. GFYS..
Rodney Burns - I agree, remember 50% of all people have a below average IQ kinda like 5ftgoaround.....yikes....
Atomised is actually the precise word to use.
Excellent turn a round time to get this posted. I watched social media of the dumping, plus news chopper coverage of the children being evacuated. The flight track at Flightaware showed 7775ft altitude, with flight time of about 25 min. I guess an FAA review for a low altitude dump.
It never rains in Southern California... except when it rains jet fuel...
Rains during the winter all the time. The rest of the year not really.
ecoRfan I was making a reference to a song whose title is “it never rains in Southern California”
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Never_Rains_in_Southern_California
Literally just in Burbank on vacation, glad I left when I did, thanks for all that you do!
After he gets fired, I guess there’s always a future in.....cropdusting.
Dumping fuel that low is obviously going to have negative effects.
Nobody died
@@cptcrogge In the long run it will have health effects.
@@citroniron3293 its literally kerosene ... nobody is going to have health effects from it
@@cptcrogge i didn't say anything about death.
Thomas writing ˋliterally´ in front of kerosene does not mean it has no adverse effects. It’s an irritant to mucous membrane (i.e. the eyes of the affected people), can cause pulmonary edema if inhaled in larger quantities and is believed to be carcinogenic in certain concentrations. That is why there is a minimum Altitude to dump it to let it dissipate enough.
Do you need to dump fuel? Delta: Negative. Dumps fuel on final approach over populated area. WTF
As stated elsewhere in these comments, it was "Do you need to HOLD to dump fuel?" and he said negative. He didn't need/want to HOLD for dumping fuel. Later on he dumped it, my guess is because the QRH told him to, and you follow the QRH.
@@zeeber85 Someone above with the B777 electronic checklist said that the Engine Fail and Overweight Landing checklists do not include fuel dumps but instead change the runway length required.
In Delta's defense the school didn't have any "fuel dump free zone" signs on the doors.
Appreciate all of your hard work so thank you!!
#JustSaying
its amazing how he has to relay the same information over and over again to atc. fob , tob, NITS, etc , etc
So they never mentioned they dumped fuel?
VAS mentioned that they possibly did it on another frequency
PSN: Ikillzzombiezzz read the pinned comment
The first controller asked if he needed to do a dump knowing the plane was a Heavy, but the pilot said NOPE! but probably after plugging in numbers the pilot realized he was going to blow some tires and fall off the runway when the computer said "You're not going to make it Capt'n!"
I don't think they requested fuel jettison. No controller is his right mind would allow fuel dumping above a major city when the aircraft is not in immediate danger.
@Thomas Headley one engine failure is, of course, an emergency but it poses no immediate threat to aircraft. If there was a high posibility of second engine stall pilots should do an overweight landing. It could potentially damage the aircraft but if you must land then you must land.
I must say though, it seems to me that pilots sounded stressed and uncertain. ATC asked about jettison and they said no. Even when asked about emegrency vehicles they said no at first.
Thanks for putting all this info from different sources together. I know it's a lot to work to put it all together.
I was at LAX November 21, 2019, when the Philippine Airlines had a very bad right engine compressor stall immediately upon becoming airborne. The plane circled around and 15 minutes later landed overweight with no fuel being dumped, and blowing out most of the planes wheels upon landing.
Pilot shoulda been penalized. Major gear failure risk
@@LouNoriegaJr the captain made a decision that it was better to get down and pop some tires than to stay up and burn or dump fuel. I'm sure they had their reasons.
@@dcviper985 mmmm.... protocols and checklists exist for a reason. Better to dump fuel over a safe and authorized area than endanger dozens, if not hundreds, of lives by attempting to land extremely heavy and risk gear, structural, and/or airframe failure. I've been in aircraft maintenance for 6 years and been around the world 3 times doing it, so my stance is firm on the matter. All due respect of course! There may certainly be plenty of things that I still don't know.
@@chizu-kun7620 Thermal plugs doing their job due to hot brakes
@@dcviper985 losing a tire is MORE DANGEROUS coz ur plane could trip and blowned up
CFR 91.3 (A) and (B) cover this pretty well. I’m guessing the pilots are completing CFR 91.3 (C) as we read these comments. Thanks for the hard work vas!!!
Things the pilot may be subject to questioning on.
§ 91.15 Dropping objects.
No pilot in command of a civil aircraft may allow any object to be dropped from that aircraft in flight that creates a hazard to persons or property. However, this section does not prohibit the dropping of any object if reasonable precautions are taken to avoid injury or damage to persons or property.
§ 91.13 Careless or reckless operation.
(a) Aircraft operations for the purpose of air navigation. No person may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.
and assuming the aircraft was controllable, which would seem to be the case, 91.3b is not applicable to this extent.
Pilot - "Hey put us on a vector over the nearest elementary school."
ATC - "Uh...ok. Anything else you need?"
Pilot - "Yeah, got a match?"
Nice quick upload. Was in the news today and here it is! Thumbs up before I watch it even.
Okay, I didn't hear anything about dumping fuel after the controller asked if he needed to and the pilots said they didn't need to. This one is on Delta in my opinion unless we missed the conversation from edits.
Unless the stalling engine failed while on final. If you're full of fuel, over max landing weight and losing altitude at max power on your only operative engine, dump that fuel. Beats coming up short and crashing into the city or breaking a wing off on landing.
@@Treyorrrr Watch the video. ETOPS rated aircraft. They could have flown all day on one engine.
@@elkhunter8664 ...unless that engine also took a shit.
Trevor Kelly
They needed to announce the need to dump. They were at 8K they could’ve stayed at .8K, and dumping at 8K is way differ than at 3K over residential.
@@larryscott3982 "Needed" Aviate, navigate, communicate. We don't have enough info yet to be demanding that they "needed" to announce dumping. We have no idea what happened in that cockpit yet.
Thanks for yoru efforts posting it so soon, appreciate it
4.0 GPA required over there at Delta
Gallons per acre (fuel)?
A bunch of people who wear red ties and take classes on how to act fake and pass an interview.
What is it?
@@sparkieT88 ahaha
Joseph Dale you’re.... you’re not wrong....
Thanks for getting this up so quickly, I've just read the news here in the UK. Of course there are the usual knee jerk reactions and speculation on what should and should not have happened. I’m not a pilot, so won’t speculate, but look forward to reading the official report as to what really happened. To be fair, you don’t see the bigger picture watching these videos, so keep an open mind.
huge mistake not going out over water to dump. the atc ASKED if they needed to dump, and if the answer was affirm, they would have routed them to a holding pattern over the pacific for dumping.
the way I understand it, the pilots decided to dump fuel last minute, over land, and unleashed poison rain on children. they are screwed. 100% fired.
I take it you aren't a pilot...
@@rileyw3660 he actaully is right he said no to dumping and then didnt even tell ATC he was dumping fuel plus he was suppsoed to be at 10,000 feet or more he was at 6,000 he is 100 percent fired and getting sued and dumping fuel over areas of large people is a big no no
Nicky D well, if you take a look at the FAR, you can dump at 2,000 above nearest obstacle. best call? no. fired and sued? fat chance. was within his limitations
@@rileyw3660 I know some families at the school. I have a pretty strong feeling that he/the airline will definitely be sued.
Roudydogg1 won’t have much of a case
So at about 2:10 into the video, he is at 212.00 tons of fuel, the controller has asked about needing to dump fuel and they had said no, then about 2:30 minutes more, their fuel is now at 208.00. So my bet was when he read back fuel to the controller, the lightbulb went on over his head geauxing "We need to dump fuel!" #Bad. Thanks for the video. It was the most informative!
The irony of this video is that everyone is talking about dumping fuel. Meanwhile, I’m watching this while taking a dump.
Love how captain joe's video on where do pilots dump fuel uses a Canadian example of an engine out near toronto, pilot tried to dump fuel and ATC wasn't having it.
Media had a field day with this one
as they should
I see the Armchair Pilot Brigade is out in full force today. Hahaha...
Yvan Pontino seems to be pretty cut and dry. He made a bad decision.
Um no. /r/flying liveatc and airliners.net all deleted the topic. Pathetic. I wonder how much Delta paid them.
No it’s called guidelines, procedures, checklists, training, pre-flight preparation. Go to some channels where actual training pilots are giving info on the subject. This guy screwed up and clearly didn’t have a plan for a engine failure and immediate return, or delayed return to dump fuel. You have 2 options. But NOT both.
I'm not an expert but I usually hear pilots announce when they are dumping fuel and ATC notifies other aircraft. I wonder if it was on that discrete frequency. I've also heard about dumping it at an altitude where it disperses before reaching ground.
I think was one scared pilot, and sort of skipped a few steps....lucky was not worst
You should dump over either non populated area or high enough like you said. But I think in this emergency it was dump the fuel and save the souls on board. Or not and risk an even bigger problem. So they dumped and it’s just fuel It’s not good for you but not deadly for the most part. I read every one was fine and any medical problems were handled there.
There was no fuel dump. The 777 may have been LEAKING fuel though.....
A pilots responsibility in an emergency is aviate, navigate, then and then communicate...
@@GraytechOne I think he was giving his reason for requesting 25R when the approach controller gave him 24R
From what I heard it seems that when they were asked about dumping fuel they still hadn’t put the numbers for landing so they thought they were ok? It seems that at some point they finally realized they were too heavy and that’s probably why they asked for a delay on approach so they could dump the fuel. I wonder why they didn’t say anything about dumping fuel at that point. Maybe they didn’t want to be delayed more than they needed to by having to circle to dump fuel at a safe spot?
or hoped it would remain unnoticed if they didn't announce it
Couldn't they have dumped the fuel in the ocean and fly the airplane with one engine?
We assume they could have
that is actually mandatory unless they are at an altitude where it will evaporate before getting to the ground. they declined atc asking if they needed to dump, then dumped over schools without reporting. this whole flight crew is probably 200% fired
I have done aircraft firefighter training and sadly crashes. Jet fuel should be jettisoned/dumped over water or at at least 5000ft so that it dissipates before it can reach the ground. From the video on news and now the atc audio this is on delta pilot errors for this happening.
@@foxboy64 Well if you just mean the pilots MAYBE. All we can say for certain is ONE pilot is fired. Specifically the pilot, pilot. The co-pilot is not fired IF he protested and was overruled. The cockpit flight recorder will let them determine if the co-pilot acted correctly and was ignored.
If that's the case, then no responsibility should be borne by him.
If the rules say that in the event of a disagreement on what actions to take to fly the plane, the pilot wins. Then the co-pilot was defeated by Delta policy.
@@foxboy64 yep i through you had to also be at 10,000 feet to dump fuel too the pilot is fucked
Thank you, much appreciated. Now we need to know why they dumped after saying they didn't need to. Must have had a reason not to land heavy.
The chemtrail nuts are going to have a field day with this one.
truly a stupid statement on more than one level...
Rodney Burns but oh so true
implying ONLY chemtrail nuts have a problem with this SHIT, YOU are now the excrement!
Here from blancolirio who gave you the thumbs up. That’s a gold star recommendation for me. I’m in.
Single engine failure. Fly the plane. Follow checklist. Nothing like that happened here.
Not sure how I stumbled upon your channel but I'm hooked. I was watching this on the news last night waiting for your upload. Keep up the great content
Damn you are fast!
I listened to the audio of the controllers working to resequence the arrivals to LAX because of this emergency. That might make an interesting video to show the work involved to make room for the incoming emergency.
Delta 89 Heavy do you have those fifth graders gassed?
Roger we got em terminated!
You people can't hear what is said. LISTEN. The pilot said he didn't need to HOLD to dump fuel. He didn't say he didn't need to dump fuel.
I heard about that, 17 elementary schools had to be cleaned and decontaminated.
Total overreaction. Jet fuel, at the altitude they were, would've evaporated before even hitting the ground.
@@erauprcwa Well in all honesty no, We know that because people legitimately got injuries who would have had absolutely no idea why.
Like your telling me it's unrelated that he dumped and shortly after everyone outside under the path complained of skin irritation and burning eyes?
How many people on earth could have just looked up, noticed the contrails on the plane and knew, that's not any kind of water vaporization or anything. That's a plane dumping fuel as it comes in to land. I can claim injury.
@@erauprcwa they dumped at 2370ft
@@MrOstereier Okay, I saw another report they were higher... I may be mistaken.
Most places recommend dumping above 10,000 feet AGL, although apparently the FAA sets the minimum at 2000 feet. The UK CAA recommends 10,000 feet AGL, but sets the minimums for exceptional circumstances at 7000 ft AGL in the winter and 4000 ft AGL in the summer, presumably due to evaporation being faster in the summer when it's warm or something.
Juan at Blancolirio sent me here. Good job on this flight pattern and communication. DAL89 got blended in to LAX traffic and landed ...!! Congrats to the pilot and FO.!! So how much fuel/weight did they dump??? and why so late?
To have such a dumping mishap, wonder if the left hand didn’t know the right hand was dumping!
Better to dump fuel than whole plane.
Grew up living next to a major US airport. A little jet fuel never hurt anybody!
this will definitely be an interesting lawsuit
No proof of damages, but a reasonable educated person would want $50k to shower their kid in jet fuel, I think they should pay 10x that. They did this to save their $200m airplane.
TheCessnaFlyer hopefully those kids’s parents are not greedy.
This video beat the press for me! I've listened to this edited audio before reading the news report.
Plenty of opportunity to dump fuel in a approved safe place.
Thank you for making these great videos
Thank you for watching!
tfw you learn about this news via VASAviation first rather than traditional media outlets FeelsGoodMan
First, there is a distinct change in voices on the radio. Normally the Captain assigns duties in the event of an emergency. The Captain usually has the copilot fly and talk to ATC while the Cap works the emergency checklist, in this case a compressor stall. There would be 1 or 2 relief pilots due to the length of flight, Shanghai. They could communicate with the flight attendants and pax re a return to LAX (relax lol). They could also set up a phone patch with dispatch and maintenance to assist in the emergency. There is no way they could have dumped/jettisoned enough fuel in 10 minutes or so while being vectored for the ILS in order to land below max landing weight. Many things to second guess but they landed safely so long investigation expected.
This is going to be the greatest class action lawsuit of all time
Hypersensationalize much?
Star Gazer jus wait...
Maybe most interesting, not the greatest. The issue is there's no proof that kids being rained with jet fuel is bad for their health. They may all get cancer in 50 years but it's very unlikely. An experiment would be unethical and an observational study impossible given the limited sample size. There's no proof of damages here but delta decided their aircraft's warranty was more important than people's lives in the hood. They knew those people could easily be paid off and silenced. $200m air frame or $2m in payouts and CLEARLY a $m internet PR attack on anyone trying to call them out. No topics on the subject on /r/flying liveatc.net airliners.net very suspicious.
If you ask me a reasonable educated person would want $50k if you wanted to spray their kid with jet fuel, Delta should have to pay 10x that. After all the actual health risks are very low.
ryannayr140 Talk to Aviation maintenance techs that have gotten fuel all over them. Plenty have been covered when sumping the tanks.
ryannayr140 I'm sayin
It will be interesting to see what the investigation turns up on this flight. Right now lots of people are giving the pilots a bunch of bad reviews for dumping fuel at low and slow altitude over a metropolitan area instead of parking somewhere out over the water above 5,000 feet to properly dump their fuel. Something was serious enough to have the crew decide to put the plane on the ground as soon as possible rather than take time to dump fuel per normal procedures and land in a normal manner. If you watch the video track of the plane, there are a lot of deviations to a normal landing pattern approach and land. As the plane flew overhead on approach and was dumping fuel, the sounds it was making were not the normally expected sounds which most 777s make during that portion and stage of their landing approach. It was a very abnormal approach. The investigation report will clear up what was going on.
What are you talking about?
"In other news, the White House current acting Transportation Secretary just announced a shuffling at the top of the FAA. In a written statement: "in consideration of the miss-apps with Boeing 737 Max falling out of the sky. It seems prudent to regain the public trust and therefore we are pleased to announce a new acting head of FAA Mr. X, who was recently employed by Delta as a Boeing 777 pilot...."
Wow.... Just wow! He denied the need to dump fuel!!
No, he denied needing to hold to dump fuel. Pay attention.
@@stargazer7644 he never confirmed the dump... You pay attention.
This has to be all kinds a wrong right? It was just a compressor stall. Plus shouldnt they dump over the ocean?
Dominick that’s why the FAA is investigating that’s kinda Illegal unless it’s an actual actual emergency that the planes going to crash. They said they had control of the aircraft no need for fuel dump.
Fuel can be dumped anywhere if above 6000 feet. However it's preferrable to dump over non-populated areas or water, of course. Unfortunately we don't know if they dumped on their own decision or the Approach we can't hear approved them to do so. Many people were injured on the ground so I'm sure an investigation will open.
@@VASAviation 5000
@@Boeing767DriverAA Nope, 6000 AGL is the minimum legal height.
Stool Posts well they vandalized my house making it flammable. That’s illegal to me. Anyways yes a compressor stall is an emergency. They declared control of the aircraft which from my knowledge it downgrades it to a PAN PAN PAN PAN PAN PAN call. They dumped fuel over a city when they said they didn’t need too according to them. I wonder what the investigation will open.
God's gift to aviation......A Delta pilot
First. It dumped it over my house today. Washed it with water.
I watch air disasters and I'm amazed how they find out what happened so it doesn't happen again me I have never been in a plane and will never fly
What the hell?
That pilot on the radio is overwhelmed as fuck. In an emergency situation, you roll the trucks 10 out of 10 times.
It's my understanding that kerosene is an excellent cleaning agent for fecal matter.
operator0 just add lit matches
sounds racist to me...
@@mikearcher9390 Can't tell if that's a joke or not.
Mentour Pilot just gave you a shout-out on his channel’s coverage of this event.
or MP's almost coverage, really he says nothing and just guides you to OTHER videos, a total FAIL
I would not want to be in the room when the crew has that first conversation with the chief pilot @delta over this incident., to say it's going to be an intense 1 is an understatement. This aircraft Can Fly for a amount of time on one engine so I do not understand why not requesting a vector out over the ocean just long enough to do the fuel dump and come back!, you dumped fuel over a school while there were teachers and students outside they had no warning that this was about to happen
most likey wont even be a conversion most likey will be a phone calling saying your fired
Thank you VASAviation