*IMPORTANT UPDATED INFORMATION. PLEASE READ* The aircraft departed from Alverca Air Base (LPAR) where it arrived on 02/OCT/2018 for a Class C inspection/maintenance in the OGMA facilities. The aircraft landed safely at Beja Airport (LPBJ) escorted by two F-16s of the Portuguese Air Force that were scrambled from Monte Real Air Base (LPMR). Stay tuned for PART #2 which has some communications with these fighters. *Weather was extremely bad in the area. METARs below.* LPAR 111300Z 04005KT 3000 RA FEW005 SCT010 BKN015 14/13 Q1010 LPBJ 111400Z 19017KT 9999 SCT030 BKN048 19/14 Q1011
@@muthanamidhat7861 it was if you have to land an uncontrollable aircraft and you need CAVOK to perfectly plan where you're landing, how high you are and how many miles you have to run. I'm sure the only thing they could see out the window was a big layer of white clouds.
@@rc2634 When in a situation like this, in IMC, once you've formed your own opinion of what is wrong, it's hard to shake it. They thought they had bad flight controls, but it was actually the instruments failing to respond to what the airplane was actually doing. Eventually they figured out how to keep approximately straight and level, but they still had no working reference as to heading, hence the continual turning. Only towards the end of this clip does ATC point out that they're going in circles - until then, all they know is they're not getting any closer to the sea despite trying to fly that way. One of the best ways to give directions to a disoriented pilot is by intercepting them in another aircraft with working instruments. Hence the F-16s.
It’s insane how they went from feeling like they needed to ditch, dejected and willing to accept their fate but save other lives to realizing they might actually be able to control that thing. They basically tamed a bull mid ride. Insane.
They switched the flight controls from natural law to alternate law. I don't know details of how this plane works, but it made it so just the one aileron would come slightly up if they moved the yoke only slightly. Before when they moved the yoke the aileron would come up on one wing and the spoilers on the opposite wing. Set to alternate law the aileron controls were still reversed, so if they turned right it banked left, but at least reversed plus opposite stopped happening so the wings weren't always trying to bank right and left at the same time.
@@BrettonFerguson The controls-to-surface analog subsystem provides what is termed direct mode control. Direct mode entails cockpit control input where the LVDTs are used to transmit cockpit controls position into the analog electronic control circuitry. The analog control circuitry is referred to as ACE (Actuator Control Electronics). The ACE is an electronic unit that houses two ACE channels each known as P-ACE (Primary Actuator Control Electronics) since they are used in the primary flight controls system. Each P-ACE channel is used to control the PCU on the elevator surfaces and the rudder surface. The FCS also uses analog electronics for multifunction spoiler surface control, and are augmented by digital electronics using software to provide augmentation and additional functions. The analog circuitry used to control the multifunction spoilers is termed S-ACE (Spoiler Actuator-Control Electronics). Also, direct mode control is used to control the multifunction spoilers where LVDTs are used to transmit the control yoke position into the S-ACE analog electronic control circuitry. So they used Direct mode
@Jim Jones I'm no pilot, but I don't think it's fair calling them slow given the circumstances they went through. It would be easy to get disoriented when you're in bad weather and your plane is out of control and pulling 5Gs. It's would be like coming out of a sharp dive and then a loop, not knowing where you are exactly and attempting to ascertain/confirm the heading to the sea.
10:21 23,936fpm descent at 6,475ft. Cannot imagine what was going through their heads. Great work by the crew for the safe landing. Turns out - it's not a simple aileron reversal (try flying an R/C with ailerons reversed - difficult, not impossible). This flight, spoilerons still went in the correct direction, so once they got past a certain aileron deflection, the spoilerons would come up on the correct side, creating all sorts of weird and confusing aerodynamics.
Pilots had a great job. Remember, english is not their native and its very hard to talk english while you are rushed in emergency, thats why they had so poor communication. Cmon guys, they were going to crash in sea to prevent killing anyone on ground. They were sitting in the metal bow, flying up and down(just look at fpm left corner). They are brave guys, hope they are nice
I'm not here to bash on these specific pilots or ATCs, please bear that in mind, but regarding the whole field of jobs of in aviation: It should be a mandatory thing for this occupation to REQUIRE perfect english communication skills no matter if stressed or not. Also you can tell (especially when the stress dies down) that the no one in this is great at it no matter the circumstance. It's obvious they, especially the pilots can only handle the bare minimum of vocabulary that's asked of them in a routine setting but that's as far as it goes. Again, I'm not bashing these individuals, I'm bashing the requirements and training for this job. This whole situation might have been easier on everyone if the pilots could have communicated what their exact problems are. Then again mad respect for the pilots. They reached the best possible outcome, even with the training they had.
Pilots are and have always been 'god like' heroes to me (since being a little boy) thus, I have tremendous respect for the men and women around the world who do this job and I just thank god these two made it home that day.
Would be awesome to get a version of this video with the graphs of altitude and g-forces from the accident investigation superimposed. Watching this video you get the impression the pilots are just circling but actually they were fighting to control an aircraft with g-forces exceeding 5G at some points.
@@wyskass861 Agreed.. I'm sure the umm.. excitement would have died down after two hours (edited here) of flips & rolls. I'm sure cleaning crew had their work cut out for them afterward :-P a vomit comet like I've never heard of before (even though aircraft was a write-off..)
Once again highlighting the need for aeronautical english as absolute standard. Especially in broken-but-readable radio conditions standard phraseology and a grasp on basic english are a must for everyone involved in a high-risk international operation. And in this case both parties were on the very edge of what is acceptable language capabilities - the pilot of the accident airplane stumbled through "away from trees, land on water" and one more unreadable thing before he finally settles with the official term "ditching", but then ATC comes in and asks if they want "vectors to land or to ditch fuel", clearly misinterpreting the word "ditch". But in turn the flight crew doesn't acknowledge this and just repeats: "Ditching! Come on! Ditching!" Gladly it worked out in the end, but if I'd be the employer of any of the three on tape, I'd congratulate them on their job well done and send them on an all-expenses-payed aiviation english course as a bonus...
Also ridiculous that the pilots asked about 6 times what heading "to the sea." The answer was always 210 or 220. Seriously that vector is not going to change, the ocean is NOT moving.
@@joevenuti1201 Well, to me it was apparent that they didn't realise they were flying circles. And when you are being told the ocean is 210 and X minutes out, but you don't see the water after X minutes, you ask for vectors again...
@@QemeH I completely agree. The crew had declared their mayday. Made it clear they were experiencing major system malfunctions and repeatedly asking how to get to the sea. While the people with the radar screen just watched them fly in circles. Finally towards the end of the vid ATC threw the pilot a bone.
It's easy to criticise when you're watching the events play out after the fact from a comfy seat in a warm and safe room on the ground in front of your computer. When you're strapped into the cockpit of a wayward aircraft with horns and alarms going off all around you, and instruments you can't trust or have completely failed, and rain pounding your windscreen and you can't see anything outside and you don't know if you're going to live and die it's a bit of a different matter. Pilots are still people, and people still get scared in high stress situations. Whatever their other mistakes may or may not have been, they did the most important thing right. They landed the bird.
There is literally nothing to criticies about the pilots. The aileron controls were connected the wrong way around. They could have checked the control first but in this video after takeoff they did an outstanding job that could not have been done better.
---------- My first comment was made with the very litle information i've had at the times and based on what we all i've listened via the ATC live of all the efforts the pilots and tower control did. The airplane passed over my house several times, but due to the clouds i can only listen to it. Then months, after the investigation we all learned that that was wrong were some cables and that there was nothing wrong with the instruments.
Darren Munsell google “turning errors magnetic compass” and then you will understand why the magnetic compass would not have helped them very much in this situation
@Darren Munsell you do realise that compasses do not always work. Instrument failure can include faulty compasses or an electric current that messes with the magnetic field offsetting the data.
I will always be amazed at just how much of the pilots training takes over in situations like this. In the middle of an uncontrollable flight, experiencing majors G's, these pilots were aware enough to ask for possible ditching locations to avoid ground casualties. If they did not manage a landing and did ditch, they would have died as heroes.
I once had a taxi driver that took me on a route like this. In all seriousness, kudos to the pilots for getting down successfully and all the professionals involved keeping cool heads
I'm no expert but i believe there is no audible "sinking" warning in any GPWS', however there is a "bank angle" warning in mode 6 GPWS'. It's an audible warning when the bank angle of the aircraft exceeds 35°
Legend says they are still trying to find the way to the sea for ditching. Joking aside. This is incredibly hard to listen to. You can hear how desperate they are, not expecting to survive this anymore. Extremely glad to hear that it turned out well! Well done everybody involved!
Why did they continually keep asking that? Was their compass not working, or stress/preoccupation? Id think most people and certainly pilots would have a rough idea about the geography of Portugal. I mean point her at 270 from pretty much anywhere in the country and you’ll be there soon. Just curious.
@@berserktripon The weather at the time was bad and they needed to follow the atc advices/commands. Also they couldnt control the aircraft at the time so they wanted to ditch at sea in order to minimize the 3rd party dmg and the highest survival chance since crashing onto the ground will most likely kill all of them.
Just received some information from the "inside" of ongoing investigation - looks like maintenance guys switched the controls of the aircraft after Class C inspection. Right after take off, pilots tried to roll the aircraft to one side and it rolled completely to the opposite. Tried to turn on the autopilot a couple of times and when they switched it off the aircraft would roll to the left every single time. Also there was a brief 90º nose down dive with GPWS screaming. After stabilizing the aircraft they were left to fly only with rudder, elevators and engines almost for the entire time they were up there (basically they had to learn to fly the aircraft in 2 hours). Captain was so damn tired that co-pilot had to land the aircraft on third try breaking 3 runway lights. On board there were 6 souls, 3 pilots and 3 engineers, one of them had to be assisted in an ambulance because of heart problems.
@@PetrolHeadBrasil it has been confirmed in the preliminary report and on national television - maintenance technicians switched the cables that control ailerons. Basically when pilots were trying to roll the aircraft e.g. right, right aileron would go down and its spoilers on right wing would go up.
Curious to see what the DFDR will show for aileron position vs yoke position. The only flight control that is NOT FBW are the ailerons. This should have been caught during the flight control check with the flight control page displayed. It clearly shows the ailerons which should move upwards with the onside spoilers as the yoke is moved towards each wing.
What I got from it, quite early on, was that they had an emergency, lost control of the plane and when getting a heading of 220, they turned North'ish. Would I hear a pilot requesting 'vectoring', I'd start to give small course changes, 15 degrees LEFT, 20 degrees RIGHT, instead of assuming that the onboard systems were in working condition, guide them to where they want to go, minute by minute. Apparently systems on the plane did not work and the people on the ground should have concluded that much much earlier.
There's another video explaining what happend leading up to this. Was caused by maintenance messing up cables so the ailerons were reversed. They pulled 5g several times and severely damaged the air frame. Had to use engines to turn and swap pilots half way through this. This video makes it no where near as scary without the other
@@ninerlives The problem was much bigger than just reversed controls. Spoilers were normal, while ailerons were inverted. So if they give left input, the ailerons would try to tilt the plane to the right, while the spoilers would tilt the plane to the left. So the different aerodynamic surfaces opposed each other and because of that, it was impossible to control the plane.
Outstanding job from the flight crew. Just watching the flight path is disturbing, but this crew kept their nerves and brought this plane down safely. Not what I expected! Thank you Mentour Pilot for the link.
Nice job crew! Cross-rigged ailerons (reverse from normal) is every pilot’s nightmare!! Hard to fathom! :-| For non-pilots here, imagine riding a bicycle with your right hand on the left steering column and your left hand on the right one. With no instrument indications that you’re actually doing that. In other words, you think your arms are placed correctly. Now do it at 160-300 knots. (184mph/297kmh - 345mph/556kmh). ..and finally add the vertical dimension to the equation, so not just left and right but also up and down. Don’t know about the maintenance aspect of the screw-up BUT yeah, the crew did a great job bringing it back down safely!
Derek Charette - apparently you missed the ‘comprehension’ lessons in your cave-man school. For one, no, if the synoptic diagram shows the correct deflection (which it did on the ground during their normal flight control check we always do before a takeoff) there’s no way to tell until you’re airborne. Two, no it’s not called ‘gravity’ but rather a reverse-controls situation. Before you call them names mr. rocket scientist yourself, learn to fly and then you’ll be able to comprehend the absolute ridiculousness of your comment.
OMG you made it!!! I sent you an email about it, this was all over Portuguese news today! We always have good weather and today it was horrible no visibility at all and they had no instruments completely blind! If they landed on the sea today with this weather they would not have made it. So glad they were able to go to Beja with our airforce! They had two turn arounds before the final landing A few minutes after their landing the weather got worse in Beja. Glad they made it safe! Thank you so much for posting this!
Norbert Blackrain the weather got worse just seconds after their landing dark clouds and rain! We were all so happy. There is footage of the Air Force and they were very happy to!
@@rosesavoy9035 yes after i finished my posting i released that i had forgotten the weather to add to their list of troubles. So its no wonder that they acted the way they did and brought in the end the plane safely down. Basically in such a situation to keep the thing in the air and "relearn" how to "fly" it is quiet an achievement from my point of view.
Once again a really interesting video from you! 👏 I really felt for those guys. It must have been such a scary situation to be in. And then to have to make the terrifying choice of where to ditch, not knowing if they would survive..... unbelievable strength of character! Looking forward to Part 2.
The sad thing is that i think they had accepted their fate, you don't declare ditching unless you have no other options, they knew that they probably weren't surviving this when they asked for vectors to ditch, it's extremely fortunate that they seemed to regain control and land safely.
@@MrJaiimez Yeah they wanted ditching but they couldn't even do that and kept turning for 30 mins you can literally hear how pilots were panting for air because they were constantly fighting with the plane! Thank God they regained control a little bit and with F-16's assistance also good weather they could land their plane safely otherwise this was a crash ATC for sure :((
@@ggoddkkiller1342 yeah but the point I was making was that I think they had accepted they were probably going to die and their main priority was getting the aircraft away from populated areas to where it'll do the least damage. It's understandable they were scared I don't care how well trained you are I think every pilot in this situation would be scared but they did what had to be done, worked through it and never gave up.
@@ggoddkkiller1342 I'm very interested to hear what the official reports start to say because alot of the information I've heard seem to imply it was not so much a control problem as it was an issue with the AP's ability to control the aircraft, then others suggest an actual physical control surface issue, I certainly await the reports to see what the issue was because all the current information is sketchy and misleading
The aircraft was totally out of control in very poor weather. The pilots workload was immense .. the problem was that maintenance had reconfigured flight control surfaces in error so that any pilot or autopilot inputs were effectively reversed. The flight track verifies the pilots attempts to navigate under intense pressure. A request for ditching confirms that the pilots were unable to maintain any reasonable vectors.
This was painful. Great heroism on the crew's part to decide to take her to sea to prevent any other deaths. ATC needed to help them out more with staying on heading (if possible due to their problem)
This is the first video of these ATC recordings that made me uncomfortable. The sheer fear going bleeding in their voices, the strain of keeping their cool while the plane loses control...oof. Kudos to the pilots and engineers that made the impossible possible and landed the plane safely
Yup 👍 think they were never inverted a few times it’s amazing the pilots kept their cool. They should get the highest medal of honour possible from the CAA.
"...preliminary report and on national television - maintenance technicians switched the cables that control ailerons. Basically when pilots were trying to roll the aircraft e.g. right, right aileron would go down and its spoilers on right wing would go up."
first ATC is still so painful to listen to. doesn't realize the seriousness at all. from the 2nd on it all becomes nice, fighter pilots are also top notch cabin crew top notch obviously
Having just read what really happened in that cockpit ( Portugal is a small country, we all know each other so this kind of info spreads fast) I can only tell that who calls or insinuates those pilots were incompetent is a troll...
@@rc2634 go to pprune www.pprune.org/rumours-news/615312-air-astana-flight-serious-problems-over-lisbon.html LPBJ-Beja for those unfamiliar its the official base of portuguese acmi outfit HiFly, where its based all their 330, 340, 345 and even the recent 380, so of course it has RFFS in this case given by Portuguese Air Force, a base shared with civilian company ANA-Vinci airports of Portugal. For your info there was also some real tonneaux made by our Embraer as well, hence the injuries!!! Also quoted from a member on other aviation board, seems HiFly Crew: "It Was going back home after a C-check in Alverca. Swapped aileron controls (so when a right input, the a/c would turn left and vice-versa). Only elevators, rudder and thrust available to control the aircraft. As far as I've heard from someone who talked to the crew when things were settled down on ground, no issues when the autopilot was connected, but as soon as they would disconnect it, the controls were lost everytime. One of the four tonneaux ended at around 4000ft on a 90º nose down attitude. Adding to these awkward conditions, the wheather here in Lisbon area have been awfull the whole day with pouring rain, heavy clouds and low ceiling, so they had no visual geographic references, plus they were unfamiliar with the terrain and there's where the F-16s came in, to guide the E190 to a safer place. After "learning" to control the plane, all calmed down a little bit, but they needed an airport with better weather/visual conditions and Beja was the best(first option was sunny Algarve's Faro), which is also in a sparsely populated (thus the lowest FR24 coverage, adding to the fact that the a/c doesn't have ADS-B and only shows up in MLAT) area so in case of a crash, the possibility of having victims on the ground was much lower. On the first landing attempt, the aircraft wasn't well aligned to the runway so a go around was performed. On the second attempt they were a bit too high and went around again, before finally successfully landing on the third attempt. Of the 6 pob, two were taken to a local hospital with minor injuries and a third person, someone from the administration of Air Astana was reporting some heart issued ans was also taken to the hospital, which all three left by the beginning of the evening."
Is it just me, or the first controller was not up to the task? She did very little to try and understand what the aircraft could / could not do, what the real intentions were. And did not provide feedback on the route - e.g. “ ehi guys, I don’t know exactly what your problem is, but you seem to be circling and circling forever” Was she replaced by a supervisor at some point?
I agree. They didn't sound as ready to help, as proactive as we see in other ATCs specially in the US. They were quite passive, almost like if they were only sitting and listening.
Terrible ATC performance, and I mean it in a bad way. She was replaced by supervisor or more experienced ATC, but I've made an explanation about it in another comment on this video.
Commander McKoy these poor pilots needed two basic things from ATC- 1. Overall feedback: guys, whatever you are doing doesn’t seem to be working: you are flying in circles 2. Risk assessment: between cloud base and terrain you have x thousand feet clear air. So if you just descend softly to FL-XYZ, you’ll be able to fly visual
In these situations I always have sympathy for the pilots in a super stressful situation and trying to speak a foreign language. I realise they have to do it but it must make things even more stressful!
chilling audio. seeing that the plane kept on descending and climbing monitoring this live on fr was real scary. glad all was resolved and the plane landed safely after.
Always entertaining to read comments from the flight simulator folks. For the ‘certificated’ pilots if you have not yet done an usual attitudes session, urge you go do it. It will prove that your senses can kill you. Oh and for the use your phone/ipad etc GPS crowd. I guess one might not be aware GPS may not always work in IMC conditions. @vasaviation, keep up the good work. Some good stuff being published.
I wonder how they performed flight control check before flight. It looks like a true miracle that they managed to keep the integrity of the plane and land.
So why it take so long for controller to tell them they are flying in circles? I mean if they said something earlier maybe the pilots would know sooner that there instruments is the problem and not flight controls...
Or at least ask why they are turning off course from the sea, where they want to go. I guess it's possible that ATC, knowing they had control issues, thought the pilots were just trying to deal with the control issues and never considered that instrument issues could be involved as well.
I'd be curious to see what the ATC was seeing. The circling is really obvious in VASAviation's RUclips video, where we've got just one screen to watch, with the plane that declared an emergency displayed as a red airplane icon graphically showing its heading, a line indicating its recent path, and geographic features like the ocean shown in blue. Maybe their display didn't show the recent path the airplane was flying in, and the controller was looking up weather or terrain information on other screens, so they'd see only an instantaneous view of its heading when they happened to look at the aircraft screen, and maybe the heading was indicated with a number instead of a rotated airplane icon so they weren't watching it much. I'm ignorant about ATC equipment, so pardon me if this comment is really stupid.
Well I guess according to part 2... flight controls was the problem someone mentioned it in comments that they had reverse ailerons issue which is even scarier
@@amax1229 I have a feeling it was instruments only. Probably Autopilot and the nice displays went out. They stated at one point they gained control, "Manually" this leads me to believe that the autopilot was not doing what it was supposed to. Maybe due to primary instrument failure. With backup instruments and working flight controls they should have been able to fly a heading though.
Dont mean tone critical, i feel the female controller was not specific enough in her information. The requested vectors ofnthe sea, and she actually gave them vectors for a river, but did not specify that it was a river, or what the distance was to the river.
Design flaw. It should be physically impossible to cross-connect flight control channels. For a similar accident please see WH2303 1994-06-06. For this flight: "The investigation determined as most probable cause for the accident the improper aileron cable installation on both ailerons during maintenance activities and subsequent inadequate independent inspection to the aircraft flight control systems, which resulted in a reversal operation of the aircraft aileron system and led to loss of control in-flight."
Not so much a flaw as much an issue after heavy maintenance. Wires were crossed. As it was, the plane never made it back to Air Astana and would be scrapped in Portugal.
the fact they they literally kept getting farther and farther from the ocean is infuriating. Those poor pilots. they were trying so hard but were making negative progress because of how uncontrollable the plane was. they nearly ended up in Spain! In the end, it's definitely a blessing they couldn't get to the ocean to ditch, since they were able to reclaim control of the plane! Can't imagine the stress they must have been under. Out of curiosity, would anything have happened if they did go into Spanish airspace with an uncontrollable aircraft? I figure nobody would have gotten in trouble, obviously, but would that have triggered any weird policies? It's not really something one thinks about in the US.
I'll say it again, and again. I don't know who's instructing these pilots. When you declare a "Mayday"...you no longer "request" anything. YOU OWN the sky. ATC should be starting to clear a box and/or corridor from where you are, to where you're going. At that point you should simply be informing ATC as to your intentions. In all reality, once you declare...ATC SHOULD assume you're no longer going to be talking to them in some cases as you're too busy dealing with not becoming a crater. I've declared once due to icing in my 30 years of flying...I've "Panned" once as well while on a delivery flight for a pressurization issue. Even with our "Pan"...the captain(I was PM) issued orders...not asked questions(requests). Different times...When in command...COMMAND!
@@SuperAhmed1337 No...you declare your intent. "1388 Mayday, we are descending to 4000ft". "1388 Mayday we are returning to the airport require vectors". By "request" I mean ATC is no longer in the position to say "No" unless it presents an immediate safety of flight issue to another aircraft or due to terrain. ATC assumes YOU know the capabilities of your aircraft better than they. You are no longer required to REQUEST altitude, headings, speeds...ATC SHOULD assume you are dealing with things and SHOULD start clearing aircraft from your immediate vicinity in anticipation of loss of comms.
Also because of TCAS, the dated "ATC will keep you from hitting someone above/below/head of you" is mostly not true. Unless you've experienced a catastrophic loss of electrical...and you're still able to control the aircraft the pilots can "see" traffic, weather and terrain to keep them safe while working the issue out if too busy to talk.
Obviously, I know they were in a difficult situation, but sometimes it makes matters worse if you stick to minimal communication and seem to be repeating the same question over and over again...
Yea they should have stated what part of their controls stop working, whatever broke on the plane made them turn so each time they ask for heading they try to go for it but end in the same spot thx to the malfunction
@@skyshooter7259 They couldn't know that until they had a reference. When you're above a thick cloud layer and your instruments give you false information, you have no sense of direction. You can't state what's wrong when you don't know. Instrument flight is hard, it's near impossible when you lose instruments... only worse case is false information from your instruments.
Jesus. Look at those circles. And the altitude, jumping up and down thousands of feet at a time. It reminds me of Japan airlines 123's and United 232's flight paths. Must've been some scary shit. I would've filled my pants. I'm glad they were able to land safely. Did the various airlines ever incorporate that autopilot program that flies the plane using nothing but differential thrust?
The ATC can’t understand them saying ditching! Even I could understand that. And how many more times are they supposed to ask for direction to the sea?!
Did they lose instrumentation in IFR conditions (worse, IMC)? It's almost as if their instruments gave them wrong information rather than them not working initially. In that case... holy cow, those are some great pilots keeping the plane in the air, getting back control and finally landing it. Edit: Also stellar by the ATC to organize fighters to assist. Gotta love the keyboard jockeys here, though.
What is strange is that every plane has a magnetic compass. They should have noticed the continuous turning by that. Then use the compass to head SW towards the sea. I suppose they were too busy with other things to notice the compass.
@@SuperAhmed1337 : You can see attitude with a cup of coffee in a cup holder. If you see mag compass turning you know you have to correct attitude. Think outside the box. Logical thinking. Panic kills.
A Max You can see attitude with a cup of coffee in a cup holder? OH! So that's why on commercial airliners, every time the plane banks, everyone's drink totally spills out of their cup, right?
My best guess is that they had an instrument failure, so they had no idea they weren't going in a straight line. When in IMC this could feel a lot like a flight control failure.
The only thing I can come up with is a rudder failure and that can explain why they wanted to ditch because they cannot land on a runway because the rudder would be blocked
Wow less than 24h of the event and we have this video uploaded? You are beating our Portuguese news teams VASAviation! I followed the news yesterday and all they could say was "instrument failure", "the F-16's were activated" and then "landed safely in LPBJ after 2 failed attempts". When I saw Flightradar's flight path I thought "no way this was just an instrument failure, they lost control of the aircraft there, maybe because IMC with no instruments". No we all know what happened. I am subscribing to this channel right now. With notifications! Great job!
They could not control the airplane and also had instrument failure. that is why they were allways asking... Also bad wheather so they had no reference
@Junior well if they steer the plane to "heading 220" while their istrument was showing 220 their heading was prob 340 or anything else due to failure! stated above they have no referencepoint as to where the plane is
Junior get into an uncontrollable car in the middle of a foggy night with no lights and no GPS and try to get somewhere. Airplane was dropping and turning and instruments were unreliable....
lol i love all the judgemental rude comments from before people knew that the plane like went inverted and was all over the place and uncontrollable like "cringing at this pilot not knowing that "ditching" is a gerund not at verb while he hangs upside down trying to decide where to crash land, l2english' -- what a bunch of jerks
Scary stuff..I heard the stick shaker and bank angle warning going off in the background when they were transmitting. sounds like an instrument failure and control failures at the same time. Wonder what those guys at the MRO did to that plane !
![[REAL ATC] Brickyard SUFFERS TRIM RUNAWAY | CONTROL ISSUES at Atlanta](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RzoEsM0L2CM/mqdefault.jpg)
*IMPORTANT UPDATED INFORMATION. PLEASE READ*
The aircraft departed from Alverca Air Base (LPAR) where it arrived on 02/OCT/2018 for a Class C inspection/maintenance in the OGMA facilities.
The aircraft landed safely at Beja Airport (LPBJ) escorted by two F-16s of the Portuguese Air Force that were scrambled from Monte Real Air Base (LPMR).
Stay tuned for PART #2 which has some communications with these fighters.
*Weather was extremely bad in the area. METARs below.*
LPAR 111300Z 04005KT 3000 RA FEW005 SCT010 BKN015 14/13 Q1010
LPBJ 111400Z 19017KT 9999 SCT030 BKN048 19/14 Q1011
The weather was not that bad ...
@@muthanamidhat7861 it was if you have to land an uncontrollable aircraft and you need CAVOK to perfectly plan where you're landing, how high you are and how many miles you have to run. I'm sure the only thing they could see out the window was a big layer of white clouds.
@@VASAviation I would hazard a guess that they had normal controls but bad instruments.
@@Kromaatikse how can you say that so easily?! You think those pilots are dumb?
@@rc2634 When in a situation like this, in IMC, once you've formed your own opinion of what is wrong, it's hard to shake it. They thought they had bad flight controls, but it was actually the instruments failing to respond to what the airplane was actually doing. Eventually they figured out how to keep approximately straight and level, but they still had no working reference as to heading, hence the continual turning. Only towards the end of this clip does ATC point out that they're going in circles - until then, all they know is they're not getting any closer to the sea despite trying to fly that way.
One of the best ways to give directions to a disoriented pilot is by intercepting them in another aircraft with working instruments. Hence the F-16s.
It’s insane how they went from feeling like they needed to ditch, dejected and willing to accept their fate but save other lives to realizing they might actually be able to control that thing. They basically tamed a bull mid ride. Insane.
They switched the flight controls from natural law to alternate law. I don't know details of how this plane works, but it made it so just the one aileron would come slightly up if they moved the yoke only slightly. Before when they moved the yoke the aileron would come up on one wing and the spoilers on the opposite wing. Set to alternate law the aileron controls were still reversed, so if they turned right it banked left, but at least reversed plus opposite stopped happening so the wings weren't always trying to bank right and left at the same time.
@@BrettonFerguson The controls-to-surface analog subsystem provides what is termed direct mode control. Direct mode entails cockpit control input where the LVDTs are used to transmit cockpit controls position into the analog electronic control circuitry. The analog control circuitry is referred to as ACE (Actuator Control Electronics). The ACE is an electronic unit that houses two ACE channels each known as P-ACE (Primary Actuator Control Electronics) since they are used in the primary flight controls system. Each P-ACE channel is used to control the PCU on the elevator surfaces and the rudder surface. The FCS also uses analog electronics for multifunction spoiler surface control, and are augmented by digital electronics using software to provide augmentation and additional functions. The analog circuitry used to control the multifunction spoilers is termed S-ACE (Spoiler Actuator-Control Electronics). Also, direct mode control is used to control the multifunction spoilers where LVDTs are used to transmit the control yoke position into the S-ACE analog electronic control circuitry.
So they used Direct mode
@@BrettonFerguson 2nd officer had really good knowledge of how this works so they saved their ass
"Mayday, mayday, mayday. We lost control, please standby."
This doesn't give you confidence that you'll hear from him again.
Just finished Mentour's video. This was a gut-wrenching incident
Yes same, I watched this video at the time, now knowing everything that was going on I have even more respect for the three pilots.
@Jim Jones I'm no pilot, but I don't think it's fair calling them slow given the circumstances they went through. It would be easy to get disoriented when you're in bad weather and your plane is out of control and pulling 5Gs.
It's would be like coming out of a sharp dive and then a loop, not knowing where you are exactly and attempting to ascertain/confirm the heading to the sea.
I, too. Yes, indeed.
@Jim Jones You should watch Mentour Pilots video about this incident for understanding what was going on.
Same
10:21 23,936fpm descent at 6,475ft. Cannot imagine what was going through their heads. Great work by the crew for the safe landing. Turns out - it's not a simple aileron reversal (try flying an R/C with ailerons reversed - difficult, not impossible). This flight, spoilerons still went in the correct direction, so once they got past a certain aileron deflection, the spoilerons would come up on the correct side, creating all sorts of weird and confusing aerodynamics.
can't believe how calm he is. very few could have landed that plane. that crew are total heros.
Pilots had a great job. Remember, english is not their native and its very hard to talk english while you are rushed in emergency, thats why they had so poor communication. Cmon guys, they were going to crash in sea to prevent killing anyone on ground. They were sitting in the metal bow, flying up and down(just look at fpm left corner). They are brave guys, hope they are nice
@/ / / / / I'm pretty sure their english is decent under non life threatening circumstances.
@? they were panicking
I'm not here to bash on these specific pilots or ATCs, please bear that in mind, but regarding the whole field of jobs of in aviation:
It should be a mandatory thing for this occupation to REQUIRE perfect english communication skills no matter if stressed or not. Also you can tell (especially when the stress dies down) that the no one in this is great at it no matter the circumstance.
It's obvious they, especially the pilots can only handle the bare minimum of vocabulary that's asked of them in a routine setting but that's as far as it goes.
Again, I'm not bashing these individuals, I'm bashing the requirements and training for this job. This whole situation might have been easier on everyone if the pilots could have communicated what their exact problems are.
Then again mad respect for the pilots.
They reached the best possible outcome, even with the training they had.
Yes exactly like i’m usually good at english but when i’m at a rush I can’t speak probably at all
Pilots are and have always been 'god like' heroes to me (since being a little boy) thus, I have tremendous respect for the men and women around the world who do this job and I just thank god these two made it home that day.
5:55 he definitely said "We CANNOT control this plane, we are under mayday", not "we have now control of the airplane"!
I was looking for this comment
He meant that he had manual control. I think. He clarifies later on.
He did indeed say that "We cannot control the plane, we are under Mayday"....
So happy they landed safely. I was thinking the pilot must be an ex NASCAR driver, kept turning left.
Hah
haha,
Probably the Captain flying, so left turns are better, as he can look out to the left better
Maybe he's a Fedex driver in England?
Maybe because he had little control and could only go the way the plane would let him go
Would be awesome to get a version of this video with the graphs of altitude and g-forces from the accident investigation superimposed. Watching this video you get the impression the pilots are just circling but actually they were fighting to control an aircraft with g-forces exceeding 5G at some points.
The greatest roller coaster ride ever. Other than expectation of death, it must have been fun.
@@wyskass861 Agreed.. I'm sure the umm.. excitement would have died down after two hours (edited here) of flips & rolls. I'm sure cleaning crew had their work cut out for them afterward :-P a vomit comet like I've never heard of before (even though aircraft was a write-off..)
Go watch Mentour Pilot's video on this case! :)
Imagine saying that to the ATC "Requesting vector for ditching"... Its commendable they hadn't given up where so many would've
10:37 until 10:40 you can hear, “Bank Angle”!! That was intense!
“Ditching! Come on! Ditching!!” So painful to listen to this breakdown of communication
Once again highlighting the need for aeronautical english as absolute standard. Especially in broken-but-readable radio conditions standard phraseology and a grasp on basic english are a must for everyone involved in a high-risk international operation. And in this case both parties were on the very edge of what is acceptable language capabilities - the pilot of the accident airplane stumbled through "away from trees, land on water" and one more unreadable thing before he finally settles with the official term "ditching", but then ATC comes in and asks if they want "vectors to land or to ditch fuel", clearly misinterpreting the word "ditch". But in turn the flight crew doesn't acknowledge this and just repeats: "Ditching! Come on! Ditching!" Gladly it worked out in the end, but if I'd be the employer of any of the three on tape, I'd congratulate them on their job well done and send them on an all-expenses-payed aiviation english course as a bonus...
Also ridiculous that the pilots asked about 6 times what heading "to the sea." The answer was always 210 or 220. Seriously that vector is not going to change, the ocean is NOT moving.
@@joevenuti1201 Well, to me it was apparent that they didn't realise they were flying circles. And when you are being told the ocean is 210 and X minutes out, but you don't see the water after X minutes, you ask for vectors again...
@@QemeH I completely agree. The crew had declared their mayday. Made it clear they were experiencing major system malfunctions and repeatedly asking how to get to the sea. While the people with the radar screen just watched them fly in circles. Finally towards the end of the vid ATC threw the pilot a bone.
@@joevenuti1201 " the ocean is NOT moving." It surely does. But it needs millions of years
It's easy to criticise when you're watching the events play out after the fact from a comfy seat in a warm and safe room on the ground in front of your computer. When you're strapped into the cockpit of a wayward aircraft with horns and alarms going off all around you, and instruments you can't trust or have completely failed, and rain pounding your windscreen and you can't see anything outside and you don't know if you're going to live and die it's a bit of a different matter.
Pilots are still people, and people still get scared in high stress situations. Whatever their other mistakes may or may not have been, they did the most important thing right. They landed the bird.
There is literally nothing to criticies about the pilots.
The aileron controls were connected the wrong way around. They could have checked the control first but in this video after takeoff they did an outstanding job that could not have been done better.
No one is attacking the pilots, at all.
---------- My first comment was made with the very litle information i've had at the times and based on what we all i've listened via the ATC live of all the efforts the pilots and tower control did. The airplane passed over my house several times, but due to the clouds i can only listen to it. Then months, after the investigation we all learned that that was wrong were some cables and that there was nothing wrong with the instruments.
Thx for that. I was struggling to understand why they were going in circles.
@Darren Munsell well.. open up flight simulator, climb to 4.000 feet, close your eyes and land at the nearest airport.
@Darren Munsell Really only works if you fly straight and level. Much like a desktop.
Darren Munsell google “turning errors magnetic compass” and then you will understand why the magnetic compass would not have helped them very much in this situation
@Darren Munsell you do realise that compasses do not always work. Instrument failure can include faulty compasses or an electric current that messes with the magnetic field offsetting the data.
I will always be amazed at just how much of the pilots training takes over in situations like this. In the middle of an uncontrollable flight, experiencing majors G's, these pilots were aware enough to ask for possible ditching locations to avoid ground casualties. If they did not manage a landing and did ditch, they would have died as heroes.
I once had a taxi driver that took me on a route like this. In all seriousness, kudos to the pilots for getting down successfully and all the professionals involved keeping cool heads
lol
10:34 Bank angle! Bank angle! (in the background)
I listened to that section 5 times now and I only hear "sinking", not bank angle
Rotsteinblock I hear Bank angle as well
I'm no expert but i believe there is no audible "sinking" warning in any GPWS', however there is a "bank angle" warning in mode 6 GPWS'. It's an audible warning when the bank angle of the aircraft exceeds 35°
Omg I hadn't even noticed this. They must be absolutely traumatized.
It is super clear the bank angle sounds
Can't even imagine what the cockpit recording would sound like 😬
Legend says they are still trying to find the way to the sea for ditching.
Joking aside. This is incredibly hard to listen to. You can hear how desperate they are, not expecting to survive this anymore.
Extremely glad to hear that it turned out well! Well done everybody involved!
Why did they continually keep asking that? Was their compass not working, or stress/preoccupation? Id think most people and certainly pilots would have a rough idea about the geography of Portugal. I mean point her at 270 from pretty much anywhere in the country and you’ll be there soon. Just curious.
@@berserktripon The weather at the time was bad and they needed to follow the atc advices/commands. Also they couldnt control the aircraft at the time so they wanted to ditch at sea in order to minimize the 3rd party dmg and the highest survival chance since crashing onto the ground will most likely kill all of them.
Respect to Kazakh crew and thank you for fast information and uploading! The best channel!
Man you are busy these days (unfortunately in a way...)! Keep up the good work!
I am. Thanks for all the support! :)
VASAviation - you’re awesome and thank you also :)
Just received some information from the "inside" of ongoing investigation - looks like maintenance guys switched the controls of the aircraft after Class C inspection. Right after take off, pilots tried to roll the aircraft to one side and it rolled completely to the opposite. Tried to turn on the autopilot a couple of times and when they switched it off the aircraft would roll to the left every single time. Also there was a brief 90º nose down dive with GPWS screaming. After stabilizing the aircraft they were left to fly only with rudder, elevators and engines almost for the entire time they were up there (basically they had to learn to fly the aircraft in 2 hours). Captain was so damn tired that co-pilot had to land the aircraft on third try breaking 3 runway lights. On board there were 6 souls, 3 pilots and 3 engineers, one of them had to be assisted in an ambulance because of heart problems.
OMG!!!!!! =O
@@PetrolHeadBrasil it has been confirmed in the preliminary report and on national television - maintenance technicians switched the cables that control ailerons. Basically when pilots were trying to roll the aircraft e.g. right, right aileron would go down and its spoilers on right wing would go up.
So they didn't get the 'flight controls' checklist done, right?
Otherwise they would spot that problem on the ground.
@@Imrooot Pilots had a warning showing on display before take off that they chose to ignore as it seems
Curious to see what the DFDR will show for aileron position vs yoke position.
The only flight control that is NOT FBW are the ailerons.
This should have been caught during the flight control check with the flight control page displayed. It clearly shows the ailerons which should move upwards with the onside spoilers as the yoke is moved towards each wing.
Came here from Mentour video.These pilots are incredible!! Well done Sirs.
When you declare a MAYDAY, you no longer request... you REQUIRE!
U DEMAND
Very important
What I got from it, quite early on, was that they had an emergency, lost control of the plane and when getting a heading of 220, they turned North'ish.
Would I hear a pilot requesting 'vectoring', I'd start to give small course changes, 15 degrees LEFT, 20 degrees RIGHT, instead of assuming that the onboard systems were in working condition, guide them to where they want to go, minute by minute.
Apparently systems on the plane did not work and the people on the ground should have concluded that much much earlier.
1:36 "what do you mean descend, we have different problem rn" xD
There's another video explaining what happend leading up to this. Was caused by maintenance messing up cables so the ailerons were reversed. They pulled 5g several times and severely damaged the air frame. Had to use engines to turn and swap pilots half way through this. This video makes it no where near as scary without the other
Do you know where I can find find the other video?
Link?
Can’t believe they couldn’t figure out they were reversed.
@@ninerlives The problem was much bigger than just reversed controls. Spoilers were normal, while ailerons were inverted. So if they give left input, the ailerons would try to tilt the plane to the right, while the spoilers would tilt the plane to the left. So the different aerodynamic surfaces opposed each other and because of that, it was impossible to control the plane.
Mentour Pilot has now uploaded a very informative video about this incident.
This is so intense! Also, great work as always. The quality of these videos makes it almost impossible to watch other ATC videos.
Thank you, Aaron!
I was following this flight in Flightradar24. And I started thinking the app was buggy... Until I saw this video.
why would you follow a random flight
Jordan I do that when I have spare time. I mean why not?
T P K I do too.
@@tpk2316 because it's boring?
PhilGerb93 As someone who is very interested in aviation I do not find it boring at all
Bir pilotun gözünden gelen kardeşim hoşgeldin.
At 10:37 you can hear "bank angle" and how that pilot is so calm OMFG
Outstanding job from the flight crew. Just watching the flight path is disturbing, but this crew kept their nerves and brought this plane down safely. Not what I expected! Thank you Mentour Pilot for the link.
Nice job crew!
Cross-rigged ailerons (reverse from normal) is every pilot’s nightmare!! Hard to fathom! :-|
For non-pilots here, imagine riding a bicycle with your right hand on the left steering column and your left hand on the right one. With no instrument indications that you’re actually doing that. In other words, you think your arms are placed correctly.
Now do it at 160-300 knots. (184mph/297kmh - 345mph/556kmh).
..and finally add the vertical dimension to the equation, so not just left and right but also up and down.
Don’t know about the maintenance aspect of the screw-up BUT yeah, the crew did a great job bringing it back down safely!
Derek Charette - apparently you missed the ‘comprehension’ lessons in your cave-man school. For one, no, if the synoptic diagram shows the correct deflection (which it did on the ground during their normal flight control check we always do before a takeoff) there’s no way to tell until you’re airborne. Two, no it’s not called ‘gravity’ but rather a reverse-controls situation. Before you call them names mr. rocket scientist yourself, learn to fly and then you’ll be able to comprehend the absolute ridiculousness of your comment.
OMG you made it!!! I sent you an email about it, this was all over Portuguese news today!
We always have good weather and today it was horrible no visibility at all and they had no instruments completely blind! If
they landed on the sea today with this weather they would not have made it. So glad they were able to go to Beja with our airforce!
They had two turn arounds before the final landing
A few minutes after their landing the weather got worse in Beja. Glad they made it safe!
Thank you so much for posting this!
That they made it in time before the weather change was the little bit of luck they needed!
Norbert Blackrain the weather got worse just seconds after their landing dark clouds and rain! We were all so happy. There is footage of the Air Force and they were very happy to!
@@rosesavoy9035 yes after i finished my posting i released that i had forgotten the weather to add to their list of troubles. So its no wonder that they acted the way they did and brought in the end the plane safely down. Basically in such a situation to keep the thing in the air and "relearn" how to "fly" it is quiet an achievement from my point of view.
6:27 and 6:52 I think you can hear more bank angle warnings. I'm almost starting to think the warning was continuous.
Turn left heading 260 for the river. In a calm voice. Kudos to all ATC out there. You guys are the unsung heros who got the hardest job.
Harder than the pilots who flew an uncontrollable plane (with steep climbs, dives and sometimes inverted) for TWO FUCKING HOURS?
Once again a really interesting video from you! 👏 I really felt for those guys. It must have been such a scary situation to be in. And then to have to make the terrifying choice of where to ditch, not knowing if they would survive..... unbelievable strength of character! Looking forward to Part 2.
Good work uploading so fast!
Props to the ATC lady in this... always on point with very crisp vocabulary and pronunciation.
read my comment XD
Poor crew. That must be very scary.
You could hear it in their voices
The sad thing is that i think they had accepted their fate, you don't declare ditching unless you have no other options, they knew that they probably weren't surviving this when they asked for vectors to ditch, it's extremely fortunate that they seemed to regain control and land safely.
@@MrJaiimez Yeah they wanted ditching but they couldn't even do that and kept turning for 30 mins you can literally hear how pilots were panting for air because they were constantly fighting with the plane! Thank God they regained control a little bit and with F-16's assistance also good weather they could land their plane safely otherwise this was a crash ATC for sure :((
@@ggoddkkiller1342 yeah but the point I was making was that I think they had accepted they were probably going to die and their main priority was getting the aircraft away from populated areas to where it'll do the least damage. It's understandable they were scared I don't care how well trained you are I think every pilot in this situation would be scared but they did what had to be done, worked through it and never gave up.
@@ggoddkkiller1342 I'm very interested to hear what the official reports start to say because alot of the information I've heard seem to imply it was not so much a control problem as it was an issue with the AP's ability to control the aircraft, then others suggest an actual physical control surface issue, I certainly await the reports to see what the issue was because all the current information is sketchy and misleading
The aircraft was totally out of control in very poor weather. The pilots workload was immense .. the problem was that maintenance had reconfigured flight control surfaces in error so that any pilot or autopilot inputs were effectively reversed. The flight track verifies the pilots attempts to navigate under intense pressure. A request for ditching confirms that the pilots were unable to maintain any reasonable vectors.
This was painful. Great heroism on the crew's part to decide to take her to sea to prevent any other deaths. ATC needed to help them out more with staying on heading (if possible due to their problem)
This is the first video of these ATC recordings that made me uncomfortable. The sheer fear going bleeding in their voices, the strain of keeping their cool while the plane loses control...oof. Kudos to the pilots and engineers that made the impossible possible and landed the plane safely
Indeed.
Yup 👍 think they were never inverted a few times it’s amazing the pilots kept their cool. They should get the highest medal of honour possible from the CAA.
"...preliminary report and on national television - maintenance technicians switched the cables that control ailerons. Basically when pilots were trying to roll the aircraft e.g. right, right aileron would go down and its spoilers on right wing would go up."
It is so scary how calm both ATC and Pilots are talking! It is scaring me!
Poor pilots, you can hear that they are stresses and scared. 😢
Молодцы казахи! Просто нет слов ...
Would have been easier to move the sea under them
The vertical speed changes are insane!
-24,000 feet per minute at 6000 feet altitude, that is completely unbelievable. I can’t even imagine how terrifying this must have been.
@@EdPMurand they experienced 5g's. Unbelievable
Really, these pilots are a class unto themselves. So calm in the face of such great danger.
I believe they already kissed their asses goodby...they tought its the last day or night in their life . But wau it wasnt..thank God..
Nah!! I’m pretty sure they had to chance underwear
Dude they we're calm at all wtf lol
first ATC is still so painful to listen to. doesn't realize the seriousness at all. from the 2nd on it all becomes nice, fighter pilots are also top notch
cabin crew top notch obviously
Having just read what really happened in that cockpit ( Portugal is a small country, we all know each other so this kind of info spreads fast) I can only tell that who calls or insinuates those pilots were incompetent is a troll...
Tell us more
@@rc2634 go to pprune
www.pprune.org/rumours-news/615312-air-astana-flight-serious-problems-over-lisbon.html
LPBJ-Beja for those unfamiliar its the official base of portuguese acmi outfit HiFly, where its based all their 330, 340, 345 and even the recent 380, so of course it has RFFS in this case given by Portuguese Air Force, a base shared with civilian company ANA-Vinci airports of Portugal.
For your info there was also some real tonneaux made by our Embraer as well, hence the injuries!!!
Also quoted from a member on other aviation board, seems HiFly Crew:
"It Was going back home after a C-check in Alverca.
Swapped aileron controls (so when a right input, the a/c would turn left and vice-versa). Only elevators, rudder and thrust available to control the aircraft. As far as I've heard from someone who talked to the crew when things were settled down on ground, no issues when the autopilot was connected, but as soon as they would disconnect it, the controls were lost everytime. One of the four tonneaux ended at around 4000ft on a 90º nose down attitude. Adding to these awkward conditions, the wheather here in Lisbon area have been awfull the whole day with pouring rain, heavy clouds and low ceiling, so they had no visual geographic references, plus they were unfamiliar with the terrain and there's where the F-16s came in, to guide the E190 to a safer place. After "learning" to control the plane, all calmed down a little bit, but they needed an airport with better weather/visual conditions and Beja was the best(first option was sunny Algarve's Faro), which is also in a sparsely populated (thus the lowest FR24 coverage, adding to the fact that the a/c doesn't have ADS-B and only shows up in MLAT) area so in case of a crash, the possibility of having victims on the ground was much lower.
On the first landing attempt, the aircraft wasn't well aligned to the runway so a go around was performed. On the second attempt they were a bit too high and went around again, before finally successfully landing on the third attempt. Of the 6 pob, two were taken to a local hospital with minor injuries and a third person, someone from the administration of Air Astana was reporting some heart issued ans was also taken to the hospital, which all three left by the beginning of the evening."
@@rc2634 m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1983877841704352&id=106388969453258
@@MrMatavelhas bom video! Obrigado pela partilha! Nao ha mais imagems do acompanhamento?
@@rc2634 isso foi o que a FAP deitou ca para fora...
Is it just me, or the first controller was not up to the task? She did very little to try and understand what the aircraft could / could not do, what the real intentions were. And did not provide feedback on the route - e.g. “ ehi guys, I don’t know exactly what your problem is, but you seem to be circling and circling forever” Was she replaced by a supervisor at some point?
And “I believe the weather is better to the south”. Sorry, these pilots up there would need something better than “I believe”.
I agree. They didn't sound as ready to help, as proactive as we see in other ATCs specially in the US.
They were quite passive, almost like if they were only sitting and listening.
Terrible ATC performance, and I mean it in a bad way. She was replaced by supervisor or more experienced ATC, but I've made an explanation about it in another comment on this video.
Nothing wrong with atc here. They were circling because of the control issues.
Commander McKoy these poor pilots needed two basic things from ATC-
1. Overall feedback: guys, whatever you are doing doesn’t seem to be working: you are flying in circles
2. Risk assessment: between cloud base and terrain you have x thousand feet clear air. So if you just descend softly to FL-XYZ, you’ll be able to fly visual
That must be terrfying for the crew. I can hear it from their voices.
In these situations I always have sympathy for the pilots in a super stressful situation and trying to speak a foreign language. I realise they have to do it but it must make things even more stressful!
Excellent video. Great job, as always. Your effort is appreciated
Wow. How terrifying for the pilots. Makes me wonder how close they ever were to hitting any other planes while their planes was uncontrollable.
As you can see from the radar map, ATC wisely kept everyone else far, far away from them.
Do you really think they let other planes get near a plane that was out of control to the point of having F-16s scramble to it?
chilling audio. seeing that the plane kept on descending and climbing monitoring this live on fr was real scary. glad all was resolved and the plane landed safely after.
Always entertaining to read comments from the flight simulator folks. For the ‘certificated’ pilots if you have not yet done an usual attitudes session, urge you go do it. It will prove that your senses can kill you.
Oh and for the use your phone/ipad etc GPS crowd. I guess one might not be aware GPS may not always work in IMC conditions.
@vasaviation, keep up the good work. Some good stuff being published.
What a ride!! Glad everyone was ok
I wonder how they performed flight control check before flight. It looks like a true miracle that they managed to keep the integrity of the plane and land.
The escorting PoAF F-16s launched to assist, were instrumental on saving this crew.
10:37 "Bank angle" terrifying
So why it take so long for controller to tell them they are flying in circles? I mean if they said something earlier maybe the pilots would know sooner that there instruments is the problem and not flight controls...
I explained this in another comment on this video. Check it out.
Or at least ask why they are turning off course from the sea, where they want to go. I guess it's possible that ATC, knowing they had control issues, thought the pilots were just trying to deal with the control issues and never considered that instrument issues could be involved as well.
I'd be curious to see what the ATC was seeing. The circling is really obvious in VASAviation's RUclips video, where we've got just one screen to watch, with the plane that declared an emergency displayed as a red airplane icon graphically showing its heading, a line indicating its recent path, and geographic features like the ocean shown in blue. Maybe their display didn't show the recent path the airplane was flying in, and the controller was looking up weather or terrain information on other screens, so they'd see only an instantaneous view of its heading when they happened to look at the aircraft screen, and maybe the heading was indicated with a number instead of a rotated airplane icon so they weren't watching it much. I'm ignorant about ATC equipment, so pardon me if this comment is really stupid.
Well I guess according to part 2... flight controls was the problem someone mentioned it in comments that they had reverse ailerons issue which is even scarier
@@amax1229 I have a feeling it was instruments only. Probably Autopilot and the nice displays went out. They stated at one point they gained control, "Manually" this leads me to believe that the autopilot was not doing what it was supposed to. Maybe due to primary instrument failure. With backup instruments and working flight controls they should have been able to fly a heading though.
UAL232: I have the most heroic pilots
Air Astana 1388: Hold my crossed wires.
I flew with the captain from 1388 flight, very professional and calm pilot.
Спасибо всевышнему! Пилоты спасли себя и людей на земле!
According to the legend they are still searching for water.
You can hear on minute 10:35 the “bank angle” alarm
Yes, I heard too, bank angle. Imagine what the pilots felt
yes they allmost stalled
yea
4 tonneaux
@@mskroban
.
Dont mean tone critical, i feel the female controller was not specific enough in her information. The requested vectors ofnthe sea, and she actually gave them vectors for a river, but did not specify that it was a river, or what the distance was to the river.
10:35 Listening closely, you can hear the plane's computer barking out the 'bank angle' warning.
Design flaw. It should be physically impossible to cross-connect flight control channels. For a similar accident please see WH2303 1994-06-06.
For this flight: "The investigation determined as most probable cause for the accident the improper aileron cable installation on both ailerons during maintenance activities and subsequent inadequate independent inspection to the aircraft flight control systems, which resulted in a reversal operation of the aircraft aileron system and led to loss of control in-flight."
Not so much a flaw as much an issue after heavy maintenance. Wires were crossed. As it was, the plane never made it back to Air Astana and would be scrapped in Portugal.
Mentour Pilot crew reporting!
Indeed!
That it some proper chaos onboard, I am curious what the investigating will bring, glad that they made it.
I bet the beer they had after landing was heavenly..
They obviously were putting up a good fight for control of the aircraft. Can’t wait for part two!
Ultimately, they did land at Beja (which is where Hi Fly parks its aircraft when not in use).
the fact they they literally kept getting farther and farther from the ocean is infuriating. Those poor pilots. they were trying so hard but were making negative progress because of how uncontrollable the plane was. they nearly ended up in Spain! In the end, it's definitely a blessing they couldn't get to the ocean to ditch, since they were able to reclaim control of the plane! Can't imagine the stress they must have been under.
Out of curiosity, would anything have happened if they did go into Spanish airspace with an uncontrollable aircraft? I figure nobody would have gotten in trouble, obviously, but would that have triggered any weird policies? It's not really something one thinks about in the US.
I'll say it again, and again. I don't know who's instructing these pilots. When you declare a "Mayday"...you no longer "request" anything. YOU OWN the sky. ATC should be starting to clear a box and/or corridor from where you are, to where you're going. At that point you should simply be informing ATC as to your intentions. In all reality, once you declare...ATC SHOULD assume you're no longer going to be talking to them in some cases as you're too busy dealing with not becoming a crater. I've declared once due to icing in my 30 years of flying...I've "Panned" once as well while on a delivery flight for a pressurization issue. Even with our "Pan"...the captain(I was PM) issued orders...not asked questions(requests). Different times...When in command...COMMAND!
So you no longer request vectors, huh. What do you say? "Gimme vectors?"
@@SuperAhmed1337 No...you declare your intent. "1388 Mayday, we are descending to 4000ft". "1388 Mayday we are returning to the airport require vectors". By "request" I mean ATC is no longer in the position to say "No" unless it presents an immediate safety of flight issue to another aircraft or due to terrain. ATC assumes YOU know the capabilities of your aircraft better than they. You are no longer required to REQUEST altitude, headings, speeds...ATC SHOULD assume you are dealing with things and SHOULD start clearing aircraft from your immediate vicinity in anticipation of loss of comms.
Also because of TCAS, the dated "ATC will keep you from hitting someone above/below/head of you" is mostly not true. Unless you've experienced a catastrophic loss of electrical...and you're still able to control the aircraft the pilots can "see" traffic, weather and terrain to keep them safe while working the issue out if too busy to talk.
@@TakeDeadAim I'm sure they'll pass that along in the next emergency grammar instruction session.
@@SuperAhmed1337 Hopefully...
I watched this on Flightradar24 after I got a notification for emergency. I wondered what happened and hopped for your video about it. 😊
Obviously, I know they were in a difficult situation, but sometimes it makes matters worse if you stick to minimal communication and seem to be repeating the same question over and over again...
Didn't seem like too great CRM based on the recording...
@@rkan2 Excuse me? Care to elaborate?
Yea they should have stated what part of their controls stop working, whatever broke on the plane made them turn so each time they ask for heading they try to go for it but end in the same spot thx to the malfunction
@@skyshooter7259 They couldn't know that until they had a reference. When you're above a thick cloud layer and your instruments give you false information, you have no sense of direction. You can't state what's wrong when you don't know.
Instrument flight is hard, it's near impossible when you lose instruments... only worse case is false information from your instruments.
Omg
Jesus. Look at those circles. And the altitude, jumping up and down thousands of feet at a time. It reminds me of Japan airlines 123's and United 232's flight paths. Must've been some scary shit. I would've filled my pants. I'm glad they were able to land safely. Did the various airlines ever incorporate that autopilot program that flies the plane using nothing but differential thrust?
Courageous pilots!
Not like they had a choice
What a lucky day for everyone, could have ended much worse!
Holy moly, you can hear the pilots fear out of their voices...
The ATC can’t understand them saying ditching! Even I could understand that.
And how many more times are they supposed to ask for direction to the sea?!
Did they lose instrumentation in IFR conditions (worse, IMC)? It's almost as if their instruments gave them wrong information rather than them not working initially.
In that case... holy cow, those are some great pilots keeping the plane in the air, getting back control and finally landing it.
Edit: Also stellar by the ATC to organize fighters to assist.
Gotta love the keyboard jockeys here, though.
What is strange is that every plane has a magnetic compass. They should have noticed the continuous turning by that. Then use the compass to head SW towards the sea. I suppose they were too busy with other things to notice the compass.
@@amax1229 A compass doesn't help much if you don't know attitude/can't control attitude with no visibility.
@@SuperAhmed1337 : You can see attitude with a cup of coffee in a cup holder. If you see mag compass turning you know you have to correct attitude. Think outside the box. Logical thinking. Panic kills.
@@amax1229 Sure, you can try, in a slow plane with good weather.
A Max You can see attitude with a cup of coffee in a cup holder? OH! So that's why on commercial airliners, every time the plane banks, everyone's drink totally spills out of their cup, right?
10:39; You can hear "Bank angle, Bank angle", poor buggers.
Make that 10:35.
Wonder why they kept going in circles. Seems terrifying.
Exactly what i thought. terrifying indeed. Looks like they had no idea what was happening ! (not blaming the pilot)
My best guess is that they had an instrument failure, so they had no idea they weren't going in a straight line. When in IMC this could feel a lot like a flight control failure.
Instrument failure.
It takes a lot though for all instruments including both the captain and FO's basic backup instrumentation to fail
The only thing I can come up with is a rudder failure and that can explain why they wanted to ditch because they cannot land on a runway because the rudder would be blocked
Some people say, if you listen close on a calm night, you can still hear them flying around up there looking for the sea.
I have also uploaded the ATC comms and tried to clean the audio a bit. Great pilots, to succeed regaining control of the aircraft and landing!
Wow less than 24h of the event and we have this video uploaded? You are beating our Portuguese news teams VASAviation!
I followed the news yesterday and all they could say was "instrument failure", "the F-16's were activated" and then "landed safely in LPBJ after 2 failed attempts".
When I saw Flightradar's flight path I thought "no way this was just an instrument failure, they lost control of the aircraft there, maybe because IMC with no instruments".
No we all know what happened. I am subscribing to this channel right now. With notifications! Great job!
Actually I uploaded it a few hours after it happened :D
3:33 the pilot is terrified
The moment they hit -6000 fpm
Also bank angle at 10:38
Why the so many question of heading to the sea ? Controller has said it to them at least 7 times and counting.
Instrument failure, I bet.
They could not control the airplane and also had instrument failure. that is why they were allways asking... Also bad wheather so they had no reference
@@Kromaatikse that explains
@Junior well if they steer the plane to "heading 220" while their istrument was showing 220 their heading was prob 340 or anything else due to failure! stated above they have no referencepoint as to where the plane is
Junior get into an uncontrollable car in the middle of a foggy night with no lights and no GPS and try to get somewhere. Airplane was dropping and turning and instruments were unreliable....
lol i love all the judgemental rude comments from before people knew that the plane like went inverted and was all over the place and uncontrollable like "cringing at this pilot not knowing that "ditching" is a gerund not at verb while he hangs upside down trying to decide where to crash land, l2english' -- what a bunch of jerks
Keep it up man, you have such a great content
Thank God. You can see the full picture plus with the real comm & the ACI episode.
My goodness, what a desperate situation!
Scary stuff..I heard the stick shaker and bank angle warning going off in the background when they were transmitting. sounds like an instrument failure and control failures at the same time. Wonder what those guys at the MRO did to that plane !
I think it was only control failures.
I had an Air Astana advert on this video😂
Really not funny though.
so heart wrenching seeing how the pilots kept losing control and going in a direction completely opposite to the one they wanted