The better(?) threading gage - Die bessere(?) Gewindestahllehre
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- Опубликовано: 2 авг 2015
- I desiced that the classic threading gage aka fishtail gage is pretty stupid in design, so I machined one from solid incooperating a V that aligns it with the workpiece.
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Thanks Stefan-- I wish I would have seen this video before I made mine. In fact, after I finished my video & while thinking in bed, I dreamed up one similar to yours. LOL
Now I don't need to make it.
Hey Mr. Pete my name is peter adkins I love the things that you teach and appreciate you so much. I am a beginner machine is recovering attic it occupies my mind and I love to learn I watch all of you. Mr. peter I’m working on saving up and I’m looking for a good deal on some kind of milling machine. May be a benchtop Miller machine or maybe even a Bridgeport one day but I just point may be a benchtop Miller machine. Do you knowPlaces around Baltimore Maryland
brilliant!
Stefan Gotteswinter in my opinion this is an excellent idea and makes the threading setup much simpler for those who's fingers aren't as nimble as they once were. Thanks for sharing mate!
Peace!
Awesome tool! I really love how this simple tool has nearly no critical dimensions.
Good job Stefan. Love you're work and the way you present it.
Stefan you sure take the mystery out of getting into machining i am learning so much with your videos thanks for giving this newbie the confidence to move forward
Awesome tool!! If you didn't know, starrett makes an attachment for the fishtail gauge that also self centers but I like yours better.
Stefan, you´ve made it again. Great idea. Keep sharing your ideas with the rest. Thx.
If it is a solution to a problem the don't really exist, you sure did a fantastic job of making a fix for it! Love that sine base for the small vise.....going to need to go back and make one for myself!
I definitely need to make one for my shop. I always fumble with the traditional fish tail.
That sine set up is pretty slick too.
Nice idea and nice follow through machining of a clearly more useful gauge! I love you ideas and am a big fan, so danke sehr mein Herr!
Excellent Stefan, great idea love the video keep them coming, thank you for sharing it with us most appreciated. Tony
Thanks for the tip about copper, never gave its unique properties over brass much thought.
Hi there Stefan, I just saw this nice old video once more and admired how far you've gone during these last three years! Now it's fixed toolpost for you so I guess you have that little nice tool stored away for quite some time already...! Cheers mate!
A great innovative tool that does its job very, very well. Great idea and well thought out,its taken the juggling act out of the equation.
Excellent job Stefan, a big improvement on the standard type gauge, a "must have" tool for the lathe toolbox, excellent videos, keep them coming, best wishes, Laurie
Another excellent idea and project superbly made as usual, thanks for all the videos.
Thank You another great tool/idea don't know how many times I've fumbled a fish tail to the chip pan
Not only a very useful tool, but some great techniques and setups.
Hundreds, Like we say here !!!
Ingenious little design and importantly - functional.
Like the Tooling U used to make the Tool and the details along the way.
Good show and thanks again for "sharing"
aRM
Nice little tool Stefan, I really like it. I don't know how I missed this video when it came out, but I was glad to have checked it out when I found it in the "RUclips" folder as I cleaned it out today. Thanks a bunch and keep up the excellent work...Aloha, Chuck.
Great idea! Excellent craftsmanship,, pleasure to watch. As far as setting the internal threading bar you can go to the back side of the work piece and use your tool as you would the front side,, just a thought.
The idea is in my head now so will have to make a variation of the threading gage myself.
I'm working on accuracy these days and appreciated the presentation with the machinist vise and sine bar jig. Thanks!
Nice work. I like the idea of being able to use the chuck face as well for a reference.
Excellent idea Sir. I will be making one for home shop and work!!
Excellent idea! So clever and so simple to use. Another fine example of your creativity. Thanks!
Yes, a big improvement over that flat metal gauge.
Stefan Gotteswinter Big improvement, great job as usual. Glad you are putting that new mill to use.
James Kilroy Thank you James! I am pretty happy with the milling machine so far :)
I was going to buy a ‘fishtail’ now I don’t need too. A nice little project. Thank you for sharing.
Hi Stefan
What a great idea willing to bet won't be long for that to take off, another great video also I like the new machine.
Dave
Excellent little tool and idea.
I just bought some threading inserts, and my fish gauge notch is simply too big.
I may as well toss it in the pond!
With your inspiration I think I now have a better solution.
Thanks for your video.
Hi Stefan, ... and it is a nice (and compact) educational project as well. Now I will go and watch your video's about sine bars! Bob
Nicely done Stefan... Excellent tool making.... Cheers, Daniel
***** Thank you Daniel!
Nice little tool Stefan. well thought out to include several uses in a small space.
352 to 0 Yes, I think your viewers think this is a good idea! Excellent video! Thank you for taking the time to produce it.
Greetings and best wishes from Buffalo, NY
Roy
Not sure if this has been pointed out but for internal thread alignment use against the back side of the work piece. Your videos a awesome. You are taking all of us to the next level.
Brilliant Stephan.. Great design and execution....
Excellent idea & execution.
Thank you Stefan !!
I like it. The fish scale gauge works. It’s been in use for well over 100 years. But it’s a bit of a pain to use. This seems a lot better. Now I’ll have to make one for myself.
Great improvement over the fish tail, Great Job
Well, since I don't have a fish gauge. I guess I'll copy yours and make one too. Thanks for all the information you share with us.
Rich
It's a very good idea, going to make one for myself. Love the videos .
Giovanni Brazzoli Please do, I would love to see one day pictures of gages that look the same on the internet :)
Another handy addition could be a magnet down in the v groove to hold it against ferrous work. Very cool tool, i'll have to make one when I finally add a mill (or lathe milling attachment) to my shop
Not a big fan of magnets on measuring tools, they tend to collect crap that interferes with measurements ;)
Stefan Gotteswinter That's a good point, i've had some troubles with a magnetized level that lives near my grinder
Great work!
After re-watching this a few months later, I came up with an idea for Rev 2 if you make one:
If you offset the V groove, you would be able to set the cutter on centre height as well.
I appreciate your skill and enjoy watching all of your videos. Very interesting project one I hope to do. Great source of information.
10/10 Stefan, now we have to work out how to make the new gauge magnetic, thanks for all the time that you spend putting up such videos, and, thanks to all those in the machining community on youtube, I was able to enjoy the Xmas break, as the normal TV was absolute rubbish.............mind you the "rubbish" did appeal to my wife and two sons.
Regards......Rich K.......UK.
Awesome work. This will be my next project.
Nice work and looks like a very useful tool, to which I will probably copy! Thanks
Gene Elliott Go for it - Nice project for a rainy sunday :)
Nice work Stefan. Personally it's a brilliantly executed solution in search of a problem, but maybe that's just me. I've never found the fish gauge that hard to use as you're only after the angle of the threading tool to the work, and the tool can only rotate. Unless the gauge was way off, when it's bought up against the work the angle will be as good as you can expect or need.
Personally I grind my threading tools symmetrically in the blank these days and then set up the holder square to the work so don't need to worry about this issue in the first place. A little extra effort when grinding pays off many times over when using the tool.
Looks really good. I like something with a bit more meat on it than the stamped gages. Well done.
Hi Stefan,
Just one addition to this tool, and that is to magnetize it so it holds onto the work piece leaving the hands free to do other things. Very good design with deep insight.. Cheers MoK
+Peter Willis I am always a bit biased about magnets, as they tend to collect chips...
Looks like a good idea to me. Have to make myself one and try it out.
By the way, really like your work habits and presentation skills.
Great design Stefan. It won't work on non-ferrous metals, but i would add a couple of magnets :)
I was thinking the same thing.
If the tool you have made was a little longer with a 60 degree notch facing the inside (or against the workpiece) it would eliminate a false setting for internal threading.
Awesome tool and great workmanship.
I'd buy one. But I will try and make one first.
Great idea Stefan.
Winner!......one of the best ideas Ive seen in a while, great job!
Rick L Thank you :)
Nice new tool, and just fun to use. Randy
Randy Richard Thanks :)
Good thinking. You could even clamp it to the workpiece. Freeing up a hand for a mug of coffee.
Very handy gadget!
Nice work! :)
Very nice.
Congratulations from Brazil.
I think your threading gage very interesting and better than the classic one.
I will make one for me. Thanks for sharing.
Nilton Polydoro
About 2 years ago I took and cut a 2 in piece of three-sided ruler it was made out of some hard aluminum I guess and I put a 60° V not much just randomly in about the center of it and have been using it like that
It's wonderful - I have a fishtail gauge and it's especially difficult to use with the carbide insert threading cutters - they don't protrude very far from the toolholder, which is an issue with the gauge
any improvement over the fish tail gauge would be welcome and you have done an excellent job as usual. One thing I would have done is align the top face of the tool position surface with the center line of the v groove and the magnet thing would be great also.
Very good idea. Very ingenious. It would have never occurred to me to do that. Thanks for the video.
Stefan, great design idea again equal only to execution. I will make a few of these for old friends with old fingers, lol... Really, Starrett should add this to their line...
Great tool! Very cool.
Certainly not a waste of time to make it. It will be a pleasure to use, I'm certain. Definitely an improvement over the bare fishtail. As has been noted, Starrett makes the No. 392 Center Gage Attachment to address the problem you identified. Your gage is definitely classier than the add-on to the fishtail.
But perhaps more important to us viewers is the opportunity to watch you make such a simple but useful tool and to hear your explanations for why you do something in a particular way. Your videos are always informative and such a pleasure to watch.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us. :)
Richard Freeze Interesting that starrett has something that adresses that problem, thanks for showing. Starrett tools are quite rare in Germany.
Very nice useful tool Stefan.
Cheers from Sweden
Bengt
A Lovely tool which i would use over a fishtail gauge everyday. Really top quality work. Thank you
(Another tool to make :) )
Very nice Stephan,
Bob
Good idea. I would add a clamp to hold the gauge to the work and made the v-groove area for the cutting tool thinner. I have always enjoyed your videos, full of innovation and problem solving. Keep up the good work.
jacmarhal Now as I think of it, it would be neat to reduce the area with the v-notch down to half thickness - Then the alignment on height would also be supereasy, just make the top of the gage flush with the top of the lathe tool.
Thank you!
I think it is a great idea, the usual fishtail does not even look like something any reputable toolmaker should sell.
However there is another non-problem to solve: the angle is off if the tool is not held perfectly horizontal. Especially on the inside threading tool which only engages on one side.
very nice made and explained !
Thanks Stefan, fantastic idea. thanks for sharing!
As usual a very well thought out, designed, and machined project Stefan. I sure wish I could remember exactly where I saw it, but in the last couple of months I remember seeing on either a website or on RUclips a commercially produced tool that's a lot like yours is. But apparently it's something that's no longer being made if I remember the comments correctly.
I happen to think it's a very useful tool design that should be standard instead of those stamped out sheetmetal gauges were forced to use now. Your design might be quite expensive if it was being made available from say Starrett or Mitutoyo though. Less than 10 years ago Moore Tools in the U.S. produced a quite simple edge finder that was a bit smaller than the tool you built. The last price I saw on the Moore website when they were still building them was just under $5,000 dollars. And no, that's not a typo with a couple of extra zero's added. And yes I do know Moore Tools build extremely accurate tooling with a price to match.
That wouldn't happen to be an Accu-pro screwless vise your using on your new mill would it Stefan?
Pete
Good idea. The only thing that may make it better would be a v on the inside the make aligning internal threading tools. It looks like works well enough as is, so that may be the solution to a problem that does not exist.
Hi Stefan,
This surely makes a better guide, despite the fact that with experience we eyeball very accurately, after all that work I would be so frustrated if I lost my shop made tool...
Maybe add a smaller notch for treading inserts... ;-)
Even oil makes a brittle part most of the time on the hardening.
Cheers, Pierre
Excellent execution.
Nice tool, must make one!
Bob Shepherd Please do :)
Stefan, Looks good.
Great one! I was waiting to see how You would place the magnet, but there I was a bit disappointed.... Thanks for sharing! ;)
Erling Weiseth No magnets, I hate it when tools collect chips :-)
Awesome Job Stefan. Sehr gut . I;ll have make one myself.
Very good Video. Haben Guten Tag
I always understood that the reasons you actually want a thin gauge (at least, at the point where it contacts the tool) are twofold:
Firstly, you at least want the top surface to be no higher than the top surface of the V tool, so that any mismatch is not hidden in shadow.
Secondly and crucially: when cutting multistart threads in strong materials there will necessarily be quite a lot of "negative relief" on the trailing flank of the tool.
Unless the gauge is thin, this will prevent the top of the flank on that side from contacting the gauge, unless the gauge itself has clearance on the corresponding flank, exceeding the negative relief angle of the tool.
Putting it another way: Ifanger System includes a crafty single point threading tool holder with a round shank, supplied in a boring-tool style split holder block which allows the tool to be rotated about the x axis to match the helix angle of the thread. This is so that the tool relief can always be kept to a minimum, without the trailing flank rubbing and preventing the tool on that side of the V from cutting. This relief is inherent to tangential tooling and cannot be tweaked, arising as it does solely from tilting the uniform-section cutter so that it is "nodded" forward slightly at the top.
Couldn't find a decent image on the web but it you look carefully at the tool depicted at the top of this page tinyurl.com/58zwafz6 you can infer how it works.
Careful inspection will reveal a slit in the side of the square clamp bar, which has a cylindrical bore to accept the round shank of the toolholder. The V tool bit is designed to be sharpened only on the top surface, and shifted up so that it is always at the right height for the lathe centre height.
Such a tool will be mismatched with a deep-bodied gauge of the form seen here.
Agreed on the copper knocker Stefan....
***** I always shrug a bit when I see brass knockers or brass hammers ;)
Excellent idea
geniale Idee... defintiv etwas handfesteres als diese Fischteilchen :D
jetzt noch eine V-Block-Klammer dazu machen und du kannst das Teil Freihändig verwenden :P
Scherz beiseite... wirklich sehr gut gemacht
Bin schon gespannt auf was du als nächstes kommst... LG Karl
Well done!!! I like your gauge better than the fishtail gauge.
I always hated those thin fishtail gauges , you have to try and keep them aligned on the centre line of the workpiece as well as trying to align the tool - you need three hands to do it !
That. Design is brilliant !
Ian.
ian bertenshaw Thank you!
I like it! I wonder if you could embed a magnet to help it to stay on the work surface to free up a hand when using ferrous materials, just a thought.
Impressive, thank you for sharing.
First of all I must thank you for improving my command of technical German. I quite understand Gewindesatahllehre but I would never have thought it up by myself. I wonder if Google translate would have rendered it Fischsshwanzlehere :)? Second I have never thought of improving the humble fishtail gauge. You have. Bravo!. Third, even with an oil quench you might just have a brittle outer surface on the tool, but this is not a cutting tool so it should not matter unless you drop it on a cement floor.
Juan Rivero Google translate can make your day :D
"Fischschwanzlehre" would not be that wrong, some people here say "Fischerl" to that gage which means as much as "small fish".
Yeah youre right, the outer shell should be pretty hard, but with the not-so-hard inner core of the material it should be pretty strong and not prone to breaking :)
I think its a brilliant idea, better than the fish tail gauge.
In spite of being a new approach to a well proven design, two things stand out: 1/ as the diameter of your workpiece increases, the groove on the tool ins't as efficient; 2/ when you aligned the back of your tool with one of the jaws, it showed a misalignement, either of the tool, or the workpiece.
Very nice execution A wonderful tool
I normally grind my threading tools straight or use carbide inserts and square up to the chuck. PS I like the German titles nice to know what some of this stuff is called
it is an excellent idea!
Definitely a good idea. Use rubber bands to fasten it to the work. Magnets would attract chips. One suggestion, cut some relief so that it can be used with a boring bar that has a square hole that a tool or insert screws into.
Galfonz Good idea on the rubber bands - I dont like magnets for the reason you mentioned.
Consider...
When the fishtail rotates, the effective angles viewed from above is reduced evenly. No error is introduced. In other words, when the fishtail is parallel to the work, the angles are +/- 30 in the notch. When the fishtail is slightly off parallel to the work, the angles are reduced to something like +/- 28. The key is that they are reduced evenly on both sides. Rotating the fishtail will not cause the cutter to become mis-aligned. So long as the fishtail is not rocking against the work, the alignment is correct.
Still a wonderful piece of work, and probably a thousand times more pleasant to use.
Bravo Stefan !
To answer you question at the end, i do believe that you will be able to attain more consistent results with that method of setup.
Cheers mate, love your work...mate sell that...maybe add magnet to hold to work? Hello from nyc