This is actually really interesting to think about but going off what u said about gearbox forgetting what seeds they plant I have a feeling it could be the case because they seemingly forgot about aurelias redemption arc they started during the pre sequel and instead just put her as a basic boss in bl3 and destroyed any form of character potential she had but I do hope they remember this for bl4
I think it would be sick if by them switching it up and “needing all the help we can” they make borderlands 4 have all live vault hunters as playable characters
Hey, I can imagine a vampiric drifter of a badass, that basically just decided to join the Raiders, as a means to further explore the lengths of their power, as well as possibly just to act as a breath of fresh air to the usual daily grind of theirs. Probably have a bit of a Daria inspired type of attitude to them, in a sense.
This is all something worth considering, however there's 7 sirens around at once, not 6, so somewhere after this theory there would still be another siren around
I do have a personal theory on who the 7th is and why they are so important, which im currently scripting a video for. But yeah, you may be right that the 7ths power may also transfer!
When they say switching up the vault hunters I think they’re removing the siren class and replacing it with something similar. Possibly some alien magic. Because I couldn’t imagine a character that important to the story being playable. Unless the other 3 vault hunters have different playthroughs. Based on the statement they made about the player character being more involved
@@thesketchartist6328 Removing the Siren has come up a lot in discussion, I know I'm personally not against the idea, but wonder if the larger community will see issue with taking away the playable Siren. Although I feel that if they do replace the Siren with alien space magic that is fun to use in game, then people probably won't complain as much
borderlands 3 did one, a siren that acts as tank, a soldier, a sniper, and a hunter...also what if commandant steele's power was shifted to emily, thus making the watcher protect her, like as what maya told on BL3, that siren can feel a link to their successor, also maybe angel and tanis are linked hence why her power manifested late on tanis, as same as how ava used maya's ability
Commandant Steele may have had a connection to EMily in a way that we don't know about, and thats why the power went to her? It is an interesting idea to think about
also from borderlands 1-3, we know of more than 5 sirens, maya, lilith, amara are playables, angel/tanis, calypso, and steele so we can assume that steele death on 1 and emily awakens the siren ability, maybe the 4th playable would be the official 7th, as calypso powers would need to be transfered or maybe the one we use have the calypso, and is quite crucial to the 4 story
while having a tantrum on twitter because of the criticism the borderlands movie got, randy mentioned that steele was a "sleeper siren", explaining that she knew was a siren, but didnt know her power. do i think he and the bl1 writing team intended this back in 09? no. i think its a bit of a cop out for having to think of her powers, because i dont think they actually thought her out that much. shes just a generic military character with lilith's old design and model. steele being a siren is something they confirmed though (by randy on twitter). this adds up with atlas opening a vault pre-bl1 events. also, if you start a lvl 1 amara, before getting phasetrance, her tattoos will be dark, much like steele's. so, perhaps an untapped siren will have dark tattoos?
I never knew this (don't have twitter). It explains why we never saw her power. Thinking about it, maybe Sirens need to awaken their power to know what it is? otherwise it seems a bit odd that Steele didn't know what she was capable of.
@@boneheadcollective9452 yeah the sleeper siren concept is odd, cant same im fond of it, but felt it was worth mentioning. perhaps its something we'll see more of. steele also had some sort of wave-thingy she used to activate the bl1 vault key, which kiiinda contradicts it. perhaps thats just a basic siren ability, vault key activating. steele might not have been a born-siren, and mightve inherited it like ava and tannis. the latter two obviously had a lot of prior knowledge of sirens, and the powers they got, but perhaps steele was not so fortunate. sigh, i love siren lore, but i wish it made more sense :I
@@romancandlefan1994 we could be here for days trying to make sense of it lol. We just have to wait and see if Mr Randal Pitchford tweets out moer convoluted nonsense for no reason, or hope that BL4 actually addresses any of the mysteries surrounding all Sirens.
I like the idea of Phasegate, however there is one detail that may throw a wrench into it. Lilith already has the ability to "teleport" both herself AND others with Phasewalk (example, when Sanctuary took off in bl2 and she teleports your VH away, or when Jack tried to make her kill you she teleports you away instead). Also, when Tyreen and Troy got Liliths powers, they were able to teleport in Psychos and Bandits (cant remember where exactly but i remember seeing the "phasewalk" flashes happening around enemies when they got spawned in on certain maps).
My personal Siren ability idea is Phasecontrol: The ability to mind control enemies and imbue them with different elements and boost their power. At first it only works on small enemies/a few at a time but as the siren gets stronger she can control more enemies at once and more powerful enemies, up to Badass rank (no bosses tho because that would be kinda cheaty). Hell, it could even work for what Steeles ability was: Why train soldiers if you can just mind control them instead? Now, I know Maya had an ultimate ability in one of her trees called mindlock that does a similar thing, however im not sure how "cannon" those extra abilities are.
@@dragobeetleI think the issue with that is it would make the character useless in specific scenarios, if you can’t do it to a boss you have no action skill, and that has already been a part of amara and maya’s kits
This was a well thought out video, i just feel that video game developers are lazy these days and will have done the easiest thing possible and highly likely not even thought about borderlands 1 lore or Pre-Sequel echo logs. which is a shame as your idea is great and would entice and intrigue a lot of the old school players of whom they alienated in the last game.
Honestly I think there's a chance they could call back on this stuff but I also think there is a good chance we could be playing as whoever inherited tyreens powers. Also my personal theory on who another VA could be, Typhon mentions his old friend Azlan a lot. Considering what is said about him I could totally see him being a playable character or ally. Heck maybe he will be a boss.
@@aurorapax5112 It would be cool if Azlan was someone we had to find and had him help us during the story! The new Siren having phase leech is possible, I still think I'm way off with the Phase-Gate ability. I just don't know if outside of another Pre-sequel-esque game, Gearbox would give the player an ability seen on an NPC, if that makes sense?
This theory really makes a bit of sense, I'm excited to see what comes of it if anything. We do need a serin and i. The comics there was one that controls animals in a way, but Steele isn't much for animals, maybe her phase powers had more to do with mind control or letting her learn improved versions of others powers?
Emily Swan is an interesting idea. But considering how the new Borderlands writers are basically doing their own thing instead of continuing the ideas and work of the past writers, resulting in BL3 and New Tales, I have little to no hope that BL4 will properly continue ideas and characters from before Pre-Sequel. It will all ultimately depend on the lead writer or director.
I mean it really don't expect it to happen, theres a reason I wasn't 100% on the idea myself. One can only hope the new writers actually bother trying to respect the lore
If the siren is Ava I will never even touch the game ( And Borderlands 1 and 2 makes up my teenage years ), gearbox been showing its incompetence on full display with 3 and the movie.
I doubt they will as phaselock being recycled as an ability for the 3rd game in a row would result in people getting mad and bored of playing the siren role
I mean it is Gearbox, so they may do something like that, and put a new character with supernatural abilities. But at this point I think Sirens are so ingrained in Borderlands lore and gameplay, that it would cause more of an uproar not having a playable Siren, than having a 4th Siren to play as.
Actually on a tweet/x-post a few days after the reveal at gc from Pitchford replying to a fan he randomly revealed that Steele was a 'sleeper' siren and that her powers weren't really activated yet. And thats maybe why her tattoos are not glowing blue in the game but are more blueish-grey and we didn't see any action.
I had only just learned this myself, and its a detail i never noticed on Amara which is also really cool. Hopefully now Randy has stated this in some kind of capacity, they will act on it.
Love the idea, but you lost me at Gearbox caring about their own lore. The double whammy of Tales 2 and the Movie make me highly suspicious of those claims.
Commandants are also a naval rank for example the commandant of the USCG is the highest ranking military member and the leader of the branch, the same thing applies for the marines.
Great Theory, and Borderlands 3 to me, gave a lot of backstory and filled in the the universe. Made the the guardians, eridians, sirens, corporate wars all make sense. I will say the twins rubbed me the wrong way but their teens on pandora what do we expect. It made more sense when you find out who their parents are, How hey were conceived and how they were treated after they were born. As far as Maya and Ava. Unfortunate I know everyone's connection with Maya. Ava is a brat kid, who has been sheltered. I'm interested to see way they take her character.
Thank you so much, glad to hear you enjoyed the video! I think the twins and Ava rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, especially with how Lilith just casually hands Sanctuary to Ava. But Borderland 4 has the opportunity not just give Ava some redemption, but to give us a villain or villains that are just as iconic as Handsome Jack.
@@boneheadcollective9452 it's hard to beat handsome jack. But I think the twins were more advancing the story. They are the first vault hunters children by the way almost poetic how they were the ones who got to the great key considering the person in which they got their power locked the destroyer up
@@ocarinaofpie556 Thats why i give credit, I actually really appreciate BL3. It manage to expand into a universe with massive lore small and large. And tons of interesting characters when you include the DLC
IF, they want to respect their own lore(knowing they will descontruct it 100%) then changing a playable Siren character for a Eridian it does make sense. Like, make the Watcher playable, that would be cool as heck!! And also, they can make again a previous siren character playable but it's controversial. At this point, we need a remake or different settings for borderlands, sirens are not essential and obligated to be playable characters knowing the lore and it setting, they can be so creative making classes and races so diverse knowing it's own setting is in deep space without depending to a siren(or human imo). And lastly, IF they want to expand on Siren lore then make it like a hunted civilization across the galaxy without needing to be so restricted to sex(female only). There's so many powerful and magic races is sci-fi so isn't far fetch.
Borderlands now tackle the multiverse they go to a reality where handsome Jack survived and won but then the twins come along and leech The warrior even if it wasn't dead or angel betrayed Jack and takes over Hyperion forcing Jack to work with the crimson raiders to fight his own daughter!
@@noahdean9685 I'm not sure if a multiverse was ever canonically confirmed. I know in BL3 the DLC skins for the vault hunters mention parallel universes, but I don't think Gearbox ever established a multiverse outside of that detail
If you ask me, sirens shouldn’t have been playable after lilith. Their involvement in the plots of 2 and 3 lead to some serious head scratchers especially pertaining to their relationship with the antagonists
@@Ratface0007 That's actually a really interesting viewpoint. I get Siren lore has been altered over the years, which muddies the water somewhat. But never have I heard someone say they shouldn't have kept Sirens playable. Not saying it's a bad thing, just haven't heard that before
Given that Emily was supposed to have traversed to pandora, I don't believe she will be on the "hidden" planet Lillith crashed into. My personal opinion is that they are going to likely not have a siren playable character in the next game and instead it will be more focused on lore building. What is the planet? why was it hidden? et;all. Overall, I personally do not have high hopes for the 4th game after playing the 3rd and after seeing the concept art for bl4 [the style reminding me of "elegy of a dead world"]. If there is a siren, they won't be playable and it will be tyreens successor and the premise will be to locate the vault where the seventh siren [the one from bl3 logs] is held.
tbh id kinda like a Blue mage style in the aspect of buff/debuff support ive always liked support characters which was the main reason i played thoughtlock nurse maya. although i think maya's support skills leanned too much into healing and mob control and less into increasing team effectivenes and decreasing enemy effectivness. im looking for non healing support specifically. i mean there isnt any reason i wont except res as a ability but realistically that is the only healing support skill i would need. my maya was only spec'd into healling enough to get res anyway the rest was enought to get the final perk in the other trees
When I first started the original script for this video, I had actually planned around a dedicated siren healer. But quickly realised I was just writing up a Nurse Maya lol. But I'm currently in the head space that wants a dedicated support class, and leave the siren to different game play.
The Destroyer did eat Steele in BL1, perhaps Steele's Siren energy was retained within until Tyreen absorbed the Destroyer and was killed, it released Lilith's energy, would it not release both Tyreen's and Steele's to find someone else?
@@boneheadcollective9452 I've also speculated that since we've only encountered 6 of 7 Sirens, that we're likely going to encounter the 7th final Siren, perhaps this Siren is a long lost Eridian survivor in control of the Guardians, The Guardians have the same energy wisp as the Sirens when killed and also "possess" other Guardians like the Sirens. We we're also told that Sirens are naturally drawn together throughout the universe, perhaps when Lilith phased Elpis it teleported to the last Siren in hiding, since technically all 6 were together at once when taking out Tyreen. May be this Siren may have been the one who picked up the psycho mask in the first teaser trailer? 🤔
@@thelonewolfyourtriggered5118 as much as I would love having NPC's from previous games as playable characters, I think the chances of that happening are basically 0
To my knowledge, Maya had her siren abilities since she was a young child. And it was 5 years between BL1 and 2, so i think its fair to say that at the very least Lilith, Maya, Angel and Steele (can't say for sure about Amara) all were Sirens at the same time.
Idk if it would be a teleportation based power because Lilith can do that already and much more, so just that alone, I don't think would be enough to make an entertaining and interesting character of Steele but still a great video overall
That's fair, maybe if I had fleshed out the power and maybe some capstone skills it could be more viable. But either way I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
Teleportation sounds really basic unless it's a repeatable ability. Or maybe give the siren the ability to be intangible for a short time phasing through attacks.
@@boneheadcollective9452 it's a great start for an idea though, it would just need more abilities to be MORE fun in my opinion. But then again we've never had a character who COULD teleport around the battle field so I could be wrong and it may be a fun and fantastic mechanic
I know it's something they established in the Tales from the Borderlands games. They are probably gonna use it to justify brining Maya and Roland back.
That watcher picked up a psycho mask not a scav oz kit so wth how is the watcher to do with Kriegers and I forgot what crashed into the moon or elpis🎉🎉🎉
@@DanielCasilli To be entirely fair though, Asha is considered non-canon. But that doesn't mean they won't make her canon in BL4. I just wouldn't be suprised if they change her powers up for gameplay reasons.
@boneheadcollective9452 it's on a plate for them. They will not need to think up a new siren power, just summat like phase empathy and as gets stronger it effects humanoids?
I actually really like that idea. Kinda like assassins creed 3 style where you think you're playing the goodguys, then essentially commit a war crime and realise you were playing the antagonists for the first hour or so.
@@boneheadcollective9452 I also really hope that they’ll include a Yoteslaya reference like a gun called the Slayer and the red text could say “what the French toast” or Marcus saying “What’s going on ladies and genitals”
I'd love a character bad guy like a goliath they were one my favorite enemies but I'd really like a borderlands where u play as bandits or like bad guys searching for the vault
@@kimiko2519 Tbh I'd settle on a pre-sequel kind of game where we could play as Tyreen and some other high rankers in the COV. That way we could have a lot more first hand insight on how the Calypso's rose to power
I don't know dude, the whole borderlands universe is just cooked, gearbox, Randy and it's writers ruined their own lore and progress, destroying every bit of their own metagame logic 😂 The only thing that they need to save the franchise is setting the game with completely different characters and the other side of the plot without needing Gary stu's, Mary Sue's and self-insert tier characters from BL3. Knowing fully well that borderlands is a campaign driven saga with ARPG mechanics then it's story, plot and world building is essential at the same time fundamental to the core. Gameplay sure is important 100%, but it compensate with the immersion of the plot(it's a fps so is completely different than a typical thrid person, so different in design). IF the devs won't make it a good game then the franchise will be stained from our memories lmao. I pray that doesn't become a second Concord 🙏
I couldn't find any footage, or mention of it on the Wikis, I know she's quick and dodge rolls all over the place, but not seen any phase walking or teleporting in the 2 fights against Steele-trap
@boneheadcollective9452 don't think you ever fight her. There are 2 sirens that we don't know what their powers are, Steele and the 6th siren. I say 6th because Leech was the 7th as Nyriad put warnings to not open her vault to prevent it from getting out by calling herself the 7th referencing that she knew that there would only be 6 left after she locked herself up.
@@boneheadcollective9452 Commandant Steele had telekinesis as a ability. Nothing Else. In her resurrected version by Claptrap she has merely got ninja skills, no siren ones.
@@jadieenenevent I thought she only used the ninja skills because sirens pass their powers on when they die? Since she's simply reanimated it would make sense that she wouldn't be able to use any
Cant wait for BL4. BL3 consistently gets trashed on for zero reason. Once a little bit of that magical nostalgia dust collects on BL3 and people start to see it through rose-colored glasses the same way they see BL2, then hopefully it will get the love it deserves. As far as Commandant Steele, honestly I don't think she was ever supposed to be that big of a deal other than being the first villain, and maybe sneaking in the fact that sirens transfer their power when they die. Obviously we have seen the destroyer from BL1, and there's references to the "Creator" in BL3, I'm wondering if the creator is going to be used as an excuse to bring back dead characters. Handsome Jack, the Calypso Twins, Scooter, Roland, I bet some familiar faces will be returning. (Although I do like the idea of AI Handsome Jack taking over Timothy's body and "returning to life" that way. For Borderlands 4 I wouldn't hate the idea of a playable Eridian character.
Zero reason? Ava alone is reason enough. She is insufferably self-righteous and shows zero character development the entire game through. It’s fine to introduce flawed, even irksome protagonists into a story, as long as they are also given some sort of redemption arc throughout it. _Nowhere_ in the game are we given even a hint of Ava’s character growth or self-reflection. She is terrible and brings the entire story down with her.
Admittedly Commandant Steele does feel like an antagonist that uses a scrapped asset, seeing as she uses Liliths original character model. So I can believe that yeah, she wan't meant to be more prominent in the series, but never say never. I think BL3 will always be looked at fondly for its gameplay more than its storytelling, but thats not to say it didn't have its high points. I do also believe that the "Creator" maybe be mentioned by name in dialogue during BL4, especially seeing as the 7th Siren is more than likely going to make an appearance, and will likely mention that the Destroyer has a good counterpart. As for the returning characters, thats 100% going to happen! Either through the green crystal in the Tales from the Borderlands games, or like you sya, the Creator directly bringing some poeple back. And while I love the idea of a playable Eridian, Gameplay wise it wouldn't make a lot of sense in my opinion, just because they would have to nerf the holy hell out of a member of a race that is meant ot be all powerful space techno wizards. But again, never say never!
@@waynepolo6193 ava was fine. She was supposed to be a teenager and behaved exactly like one. Luke Skywalker was a whiny brat in a new hope. Give ava time to grow.
@@tonyberryman3840 The issue was whether there is validity to the criticisms of BL3, not whether the writers can fix those problems later. Secondly, Luke blew up the Death Star by the end of A New Hope. And he did that by listening to his mentors and recognizing he was part of a team. He didn’t blame Han or Leia for Obi Wan’s death. Luke stepped up to the plate. Ava did her very best to avoid taking accountability at every turn. Could she be better in BL4? Maybe. Does that make a difference to the legitimate criticisms of BL3? No.
@@waynepolo6193 Ava is like 12, the fact that you expect growth from her is the problem, she was put in the game to showcase Maya's growth, the story just sucks in general but Ava while annoying is not the cause of the story being trash
@@mikejett2733 I never said I hated 3, just that it was disappointing. I've even said in multiple replies to other comments that I enjoyed the gameplay of 3 and think it's solid. Just not the writing
@@mikejett2733Again, I never said that I play games exclusively for the writing at all. If you don't like the fact I've said I didn't enjoy the plot of BL3 that's fine, but don't put words in my mouth.
This is actually really interesting to think about but going off what u said about gearbox forgetting what seeds they plant I have a feeling it could be the case because they seemingly forgot about aurelias redemption arc they started during the pre sequel and instead just put her as a basic boss in bl3 and destroyed any form of character potential she had but I do hope they remember this for bl4
You and me both, but they have said the writer for BL3 is returning for 4, so I wouldn't hold your breath.
heres to hoping we get 2 DLC vault hunters instead of skill trees
Fingers crossed for sure!
They really messed up not letting Grandma Flexington being the next playable Siren
Power: Phase-Explosion
I think it would be sick if by them switching it up and “needing all the help we can” they make borderlands 4 have all live vault hunters as playable characters
Even if they add previous Vault hunters in as DLC characters, I'm sure plenty of people would be happy with that.
Nah, knowing Gearbox, the playable Siren is just gonna be Ava.
Imma be shitty if that happens when Tannis is literally right there
False - Borderlands 1 had two playable sirens: Lilith and Brick
@@wladthefox6995 Damn, You're right....
The next siren will probably have phaseleech which is Tyreen's power but since it was used for being bad the next siren will be neutral
Hey, I can imagine a vampiric drifter of a badass, that basically just decided to join the Raiders, as a means to further explore the lengths of their power, as well as possibly just to act as a breath of fresh air to the usual daily grind of theirs.
Probably have a bit of a Daria inspired type of attitude to them, in a sense.
Great video, very underrated
Thank you so much!!😊
I'd rather play as Emily swan than ava the terrible.
If ava isn't a boss to kill then gearbox will drop the ball again.
I'd imagine that Ava wouldn't be playable in general, considering she is meant to be the one leading Sanctuary 3 now...
This is all something worth considering, however there's 7 sirens around at once, not 6, so somewhere after this theory there would still be another siren around
I do have a personal theory on who the 7th is and why they are so important, which im currently scripting a video for. But yeah, you may be right that the 7ths power may also transfer!
When they say switching up the vault hunters I think they’re removing the siren class and replacing it with something similar. Possibly some alien magic. Because I couldn’t imagine a character that important to the story being playable. Unless the other 3 vault hunters have different playthroughs. Based on the statement they made about the player character being more involved
@@thesketchartist6328 Removing the Siren has come up a lot in discussion, I know I'm personally not against the idea, but wonder if the larger community will see issue with taking away the playable Siren. Although I feel that if they do replace the Siren with alien space magic that is fun to use in game, then people probably won't complain as much
borderlands 3 did one, a siren that acts as tank, a soldier, a sniper, and a hunter...also what if commandant steele's power was shifted to emily, thus making the watcher protect her, like as what maya told on BL3, that siren can feel a link to their successor, also maybe angel and tanis are linked hence why her power manifested late on tanis, as same as how ava used maya's ability
Commandant Steele may have had a connection to EMily in a way that we don't know about, and thats why the power went to her? It is an interesting idea to think about
also from borderlands 1-3, we know of more than 5 sirens, maya, lilith, amara are playables, angel/tanis, calypso, and steele so we can assume that steele death on 1 and emily awakens the siren ability, maybe the 4th playable would be the official 7th, as calypso powers would need to be transfered or maybe the one we use have the calypso, and is quite crucial to the 4 story
anyone else think Pickle would be a playable vault Hunter as well
I mean, I wouldn't be against it myself lol
Corr!
Meh, I didn’t really like him.
Plus that was a UGLY design they gave him.
Aaa yee wicked, but no thanks 😂
Hell no
while having a tantrum on twitter because of the criticism the borderlands movie got, randy mentioned that steele was a "sleeper siren", explaining that she knew was a siren, but didnt know her power.
do i think he and the bl1 writing team intended this back in 09? no. i think its a bit of a cop out for having to think of her powers, because i dont think they actually thought her out that much. shes just a generic military character with lilith's old design and model.
steele being a siren is something they confirmed though (by randy on twitter). this adds up with atlas opening a vault pre-bl1 events. also, if you start a lvl 1 amara, before getting phasetrance, her tattoos will be dark, much like steele's. so, perhaps an untapped siren will have dark tattoos?
I never knew this (don't have twitter). It explains why we never saw her power. Thinking about it, maybe Sirens need to awaken their power to know what it is? otherwise it seems a bit odd that Steele didn't know what she was capable of.
@@boneheadcollective9452 yeah the sleeper siren concept is odd, cant same im fond of it, but felt it was worth mentioning. perhaps its something we'll see more of.
steele also had some sort of wave-thingy she used to activate the bl1 vault key, which kiiinda contradicts it. perhaps thats just a basic siren ability, vault key activating.
steele might not have been a born-siren, and mightve inherited it like ava and tannis. the latter two obviously had a lot of prior knowledge of sirens, and the powers they got, but perhaps steele was not so fortunate.
sigh, i love siren lore, but i wish it made more sense :I
@@romancandlefan1994 we could be here for days trying to make sense of it lol. We just have to wait and see if Mr Randal Pitchford tweets out moer convoluted nonsense for no reason, or hope that BL4 actually addresses any of the mysteries surrounding all Sirens.
@@boneheadcollective9452 lmao! very true
I like the idea of Phasegate, however there is one detail that may throw a wrench into it. Lilith already has the ability to "teleport" both herself AND others with Phasewalk (example, when Sanctuary took off in bl2 and she teleports your VH away, or when Jack tried to make her kill you she teleports you away instead). Also, when Tyreen and Troy got Liliths powers, they were able to teleport in Psychos and Bandits (cant remember where exactly but i remember seeing the "phasewalk" flashes happening around enemies when they got spawned in on certain maps).
My personal Siren ability idea is Phasecontrol: The ability to mind control enemies and imbue them with different elements and boost their power. At first it only works on small enemies/a few at a time but as the siren gets stronger she can control more enemies at once and more powerful enemies, up to Badass rank (no bosses tho because that would be kinda cheaty). Hell, it could even work for what Steeles ability was: Why train soldiers if you can just mind control them instead? Now, I know Maya had an ultimate ability in one of her trees called mindlock that does a similar thing, however im not sure how "cannon" those extra abilities are.
really good point
@@dragobeetleI think the issue with that is it would make the character useless in specific scenarios, if you can’t do it to a boss you have no action skill, and that has already been a part of amara and maya’s kits
Watcher saved Athena.... but not Maya
Yeah....I'd put that down to an example of bad writing in BL3
This was a well thought out video, i just feel that video game developers are lazy these days and will have done the easiest thing possible and highly likely not even thought about borderlands 1 lore or Pre-Sequel echo logs. which is a shame as your idea is great and would entice and intrigue a lot of the old school players of whom they alienated in the last game.
Honestly I think there's a chance they could call back on this stuff but I also think there is a good chance we could be playing as whoever inherited tyreens powers. Also my personal theory on who another VA could be, Typhon mentions his old friend Azlan a lot. Considering what is said about him I could totally see him being a playable character or ally. Heck maybe he will be a boss.
*VH not VA
@@aurorapax5112 It would be cool if Azlan was someone we had to find and had him help us during the story! The new Siren having phase leech is possible, I still think I'm way off with the Phase-Gate ability. I just don't know if outside of another Pre-sequel-esque game, Gearbox would give the player an ability seen on an NPC, if that makes sense?
This theory really makes a bit of sense, I'm excited to see what comes of it if anything. We do need a serin and i. The comics there was one that controls animals in a way, but Steele isn't much for animals, maybe her phase powers had more to do with mind control or letting her learn improved versions of others powers?
that would also make a lot of sense, could also explain why her soldiers why die hard loyal to her.
Emily Swan is an interesting idea.
But considering how the new Borderlands writers are basically doing their own thing instead of continuing the ideas and work of the past writers, resulting in BL3 and New Tales, I have little to no hope that BL4 will properly continue ideas and characters from before Pre-Sequel.
It will all ultimately depend on the lead writer or director.
I mean it really don't expect it to happen, theres a reason I wasn't 100% on the idea myself. One can only hope the new writers actually bother trying to respect the lore
@@boneheadcollective9452 Mmhmm. For real.
Great Video my friend
Thank you so much!
my personal belief is that amara inherited phasecast from steele, i think its more likely we'd get the leech
I believe that too.
If the siren is Ava I will never even touch the game ( And Borderlands 1 and 2 makes up my teenage years ), gearbox been showing its incompetence on full display with 3 and the movie.
I doubt they will as phaselock being recycled as an ability for the 3rd game in a row would result in people getting mad and bored of playing the siren role
Ava is a fine character
when they said they were going to change the classes up a bit, i was thinking no playable siren
That would be such a stupid move from them. 100% imaginable tho ^^
I mean it is Gearbox, so they may do something like that, and put a new character with supernatural abilities. But at this point I think Sirens are so ingrained in Borderlands lore and gameplay, that it would cause more of an uproar not having a playable Siren, than having a 4th Siren to play as.
TPS didnt have a siren
@@gruzi. Tps wasn't a main line game... every numbered game has had playable siren
@@winglessleo2476 ok and
Zane had the option in his skill tree to switch places with its clone
This is true, but I'm talking ona scale to maneuver team mates or enemies around
I can see me and my friends trolling with teleporting friends
Wouldn't expect any less lol
Actually on a tweet/x-post a few days after the reveal at gc from Pitchford replying to a fan he randomly revealed that Steele was a 'sleeper' siren and that her powers weren't really activated yet. And thats maybe why her tattoos are not glowing blue in the game but are more blueish-grey and we didn't see any action.
I had only just learned this myself, and its a detail i never noticed on Amara which is also really cool. Hopefully now Randy has stated this in some kind of capacity, they will act on it.
Love the idea, but you lost me at Gearbox caring about their own lore. The double whammy of Tales 2 and the Movie make me highly suspicious of those claims.
Commandants are also a naval rank for example the commandant of the USCG is the highest ranking military member and the leader of the branch, the same thing applies for the marines.
@@USCGJAMESBENETEAU Ah that's really cool, I didn't know it was different for different military branches!
Gearbox doesn't care.. it's sad.
You right...😅
Athena predicted B4
Great Theory, and Borderlands 3 to me, gave a lot of backstory and filled in the the universe. Made the the guardians, eridians, sirens, corporate wars all make sense. I will say the twins rubbed me the wrong way but their teens on pandora what do we expect. It made more sense when you find out who their parents are, How hey were conceived and how they were treated after they were born. As far as Maya and Ava. Unfortunate I know everyone's connection with Maya. Ava is a brat kid, who has been sheltered. I'm interested to see way they take her character.
Thank you so much, glad to hear you enjoyed the video! I think the twins and Ava rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, especially with how Lilith just casually hands Sanctuary to Ava. But Borderland 4 has the opportunity not just give Ava some redemption, but to give us a villain or villains that are just as iconic as Handsome Jack.
@@boneheadcollective9452 it's hard to beat handsome jack. But I think the twins were more advancing the story. They are the first vault hunters children by the way almost poetic how they were the ones who got to the great key considering the person in which they got their power locked the destroyer up
@@ThxttiesWorldIt all came around full circle in an ironic sort of way lol
@@ocarinaofpie556 Thats why i give credit, I actually really appreciate BL3. It manage to expand into a universe with massive lore small and large. And tons of interesting characters when you include the DLC
I will admit the DLC went hard. The Story was hit and miss for me, but did have some high points that I can't knock
IF, they want to respect their own lore(knowing they will descontruct it 100%) then changing a playable Siren character for a Eridian it does make sense.
Like, make the Watcher playable, that would be cool as heck!!
And also, they can make again a previous siren character playable but it's controversial.
At this point, we need a remake or different settings for borderlands, sirens are not essential and obligated to be playable characters knowing the lore and it setting, they can be so creative making classes and races so diverse knowing it's own setting is in deep space without depending to a siren(or human imo).
And lastly, IF they want to expand on Siren lore then make it like a hunted civilization across the galaxy without needing to be so restricted to sex(female only).
There's so many powerful and magic races is sci-fi so isn't far fetch.
Maybe in BL5 or BL6, but for now we still have a final siren to play and also have phaseleech. So at least one more game with playable sirens.
There involving Steele YESSIR
Fingers crossed! It would be nice to acknowledge her existence in some way lol
BL4 is being made by the same weirdos as 3 and wonderlands . Almost 0% chance it won’t be a cringe fest
@@45noop Yeah I am worried that the writers didn't hear any of the criticism for 3 and wonderlands and are just going to repeat those mistakes
borderlands 1 and 2 will always be the best ones😞
Commandant Steele had telekinesis as a ability. Nothing Else. In her resurrected version by Claptrap she has merely got ninja skills, no siren ones.
Borderlands now tackle the multiverse they go to a reality where handsome Jack survived and won but then the twins come along and leech The warrior even if it wasn't dead or angel betrayed Jack and takes over Hyperion forcing Jack to work with the crimson raiders to fight his own daughter!
@@noahdean9685 I'm not sure if a multiverse was ever canonically confirmed. I know in BL3 the DLC skins for the vault hunters mention parallel universes, but I don't think Gearbox ever established a multiverse outside of that detail
If you ask me, sirens shouldn’t have been playable after lilith. Their involvement in the plots of 2 and 3 lead to some serious head scratchers especially pertaining to their relationship with the antagonists
@@Ratface0007 That's actually a really interesting viewpoint. I get Siren lore has been altered over the years, which muddies the water somewhat. But never have I heard someone say they shouldn't have kept Sirens playable. Not saying it's a bad thing, just haven't heard that before
Given that Emily was supposed to have traversed to pandora, I don't believe she will be on the "hidden" planet Lillith crashed into. My personal opinion is that they are going to likely not have a siren playable character in the next game and instead it will be more focused on lore building. What is the planet? why was it hidden? et;all. Overall, I personally do not have high hopes for the 4th game after playing the 3rd and after seeing the concept art for bl4 [the style reminding me of "elegy of a dead world"]. If there is a siren, they won't be playable and it will be tyreens successor and the premise will be to locate the vault where the seventh siren [the one from bl3 logs] is held.
I like these thoughts.
Bro Cooking 🔥🔥🔥
tbh id kinda like a Blue mage style in the aspect of buff/debuff support ive always liked support characters which was the main reason i played thoughtlock nurse maya. although i think maya's support skills leanned too much into healing and mob control and less into increasing team effectivenes and decreasing enemy effectivness. im looking for non healing support specifically. i mean there isnt any reason i wont except res as a ability but realistically that is the only healing support skill i would need. my maya was only spec'd into healling enough to get res anyway the rest was enought to get the final perk in the other trees
When I first started the original script for this video, I had actually planned around a dedicated siren healer. But quickly realised I was just writing up a Nurse Maya lol. But I'm currently in the head space that wants a dedicated support class, and leave the siren to different game play.
Um u might not like it but in pre sequel clap trap was the best support and has a randommized action skill per situation literally
Another support was in a way Roland was sort of able to use the Scorpio turret to sometimes drop supplies
Roland was in borderlands 1
The Destroyer did eat Steele in BL1, perhaps Steele's Siren energy was retained within until Tyreen absorbed the Destroyer and was killed, it released Lilith's energy, would it not release both Tyreen's and Steele's to find someone else?
@@zer0deaths862 funny you say that, I had the exact same thought for a video I'm currently working on!
@@boneheadcollective9452 I've also speculated that since we've only encountered 6 of 7 Sirens, that we're likely going to encounter the 7th final Siren, perhaps this Siren is a long lost Eridian survivor in control of the Guardians, The Guardians have the same energy wisp as the Sirens when killed and also "possess" other Guardians like the Sirens.
We we're also told that Sirens are naturally drawn together throughout the universe, perhaps when Lilith phased Elpis it teleported to the last Siren in hiding, since technically all 6 were together at once when taking out Tyreen. May be this Siren may have been the one who picked up the psycho mask in the first teaser trailer? 🤔
Watcher playble siren char, Katagawa sister as tech char, Hammerlock sniper char, and Torgue tank char. 😮
@@thelonewolfyourtriggered5118 as much as I would love having NPC's from previous games as playable characters, I think the chances of that happening are basically 0
Could maya siren power be the same as steeles? Or did they both have siren powers around the same time?
To my knowledge, Maya had her siren abilities since she was a young child. And it was 5 years between BL1 and 2, so i think its fair to say that at the very least Lilith, Maya, Angel and Steele (can't say for sure about Amara) all were Sirens at the same time.
Idk if it would be a teleportation based power because Lilith can do that already and much more, so just that alone, I don't think would be enough to make an entertaining and interesting character of Steele but still a great video overall
That's fair, maybe if I had fleshed out the power and maybe some capstone skills it could be more viable. But either way I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
Teleportation sounds really basic unless it's a repeatable ability. Or maybe give the siren the ability to be intangible for a short time phasing through attacks.
😢@@larrytherustyboii7442I would imagine it to be repeatable. Maybe even later on in the skill tree, you could place more than just the 2 portals
@@boneheadcollective9452 it's a great start for an idea though, it would just need more abilities to be MORE fun in my opinion. But then again we've never had a character who COULD teleport around the battle field so I could be wrong and it may be a fun and fantastic mechanic
Ive had this same theory since presequel
Yeah i know a lot of people were thinking the same thing over the years, and for good reason if you ask me.
@boneheadcollective9452 I would love it whole heartedly if it was not riffing off "sparkle fangs" ;)
@@DanielCasilli not gonna lie, i do not have the faintest idea what Sparkle fangs is. But I will agree with you on the riffing part either way lol
@boneheadcollective9452 the twilight films, with twinkly vampires in the sunlight
Commandant steele more like commandant donut steele
She's not beating the donut alagation's
I mean, there is zero evidence to prove she ISN'T a donut. So you may be on to something!
@@boneheadcollective9452 the destroyer made a hole in steele's chest she is a donut
@@formulapaper836 Got me there
Isn’t the whole premise about something bringing the people back to life? So kinda like the robolution?
I know it's something they established in the Tales from the Borderlands games. They are probably gonna use it to justify brining Maya and Roland back.
@@boneheadcollective9452 I really hope they don’t milk the dead cow of jack.
@@Profoundkarma2000 You and me both, but it think we both know Gearbox won't ever let him truely die...
That watcher picked up a psycho mask not a scav oz kit so wth how is the watcher to do with Kriegers and I forgot what crashed into the moon or elpis🎉🎉🎉
Maya will be the next Siren
didnt she die?
I don't think she will be playable, but I do think we will see her again for sure in 4
I think asha will be the next playable. Beast control
That would be boring and too similar to FL4K
@ThePokemonTrainerr roland/Axton mordi/zero, lilith/maya? You're point? We have had a melee siren, why not a pets one, and she existed b4 fl4k
@@DanielCasilli To be entirely fair though, Asha is considered non-canon. But that doesn't mean they won't make her canon in BL4. I just wouldn't be suprised if they change her powers up for gameplay reasons.
@boneheadcollective9452 it's on a plate for them. They will not need to think up a new siren power, just summat like phase empathy and as gets stronger it effects humanoids?
@@DanielCasilli that would be a logical path to take, and minimal effort on their part to implement it
You play as Ava. Ava is the new playable siren 😂
If that turns out to be the case.....I hope that isn't the case lol
Watch this, they’ll have it be flip flopped. You can choose to play as good guys or bad guys
I actually really like that idea. Kinda like assassins creed 3 style where you think you're playing the goodguys, then essentially commit a war crime and realise you were playing the antagonists for the first hour or so.
@@boneheadcollective9452 “everybody thinks they’re the hero of their own story” type feel
@@boneheadcollective9452 I also really hope that they’ll include a Yoteslaya reference like a gun called the Slayer and the red text could say “what the French toast” or Marcus saying “What’s going on ladies and genitals”
I'd love a character bad guy like a goliath they were one my favorite enemies but I'd really like a borderlands where u play as bandits or like bad guys searching for the vault
@@kimiko2519 Tbh I'd settle on a pre-sequel kind of game where we could play as Tyreen and some other high rankers in the COV. That way we could have a lot more first hand insight on how the Calypso's rose to power
na, we getting Ava as the siren, and it will be a very small twist on how Maya used it.
Ain’t nobody playing Ava if they make her playable.
@@AleXavieR-l2t If Ava is playable, I riot.
I don't know dude, the whole borderlands universe is just cooked, gearbox, Randy and it's writers ruined their own lore and progress, destroying every bit of their own metagame logic 😂
The only thing that they need to save the franchise is setting the game with completely different characters and the other side of the plot without needing Gary stu's, Mary Sue's and self-insert tier characters from BL3.
Knowing fully well that borderlands is a campaign driven saga with ARPG mechanics then it's story, plot and world building is essential at the same time fundamental to the core.
Gameplay sure is important 100%, but it compensate with the immersion of the plot(it's a fps so is completely different than a typical thrid person, so different in design).
IF the devs won't make it a good game then the franchise will be stained from our memories lmao. I pray that doesn't become a second Concord 🙏
Honestly I'd love to see a playable male siren character, also when you explained phase gate I immediately thought of wraith from apex legends
Commandant Steele phasewalks when you fight her... i think.
I couldn't find any footage, or mention of it on the Wikis, I know she's quick and dodge rolls all over the place, but not seen any phase walking or teleporting in the 2 fights against Steele-trap
@boneheadcollective9452 don't think you ever fight her. There are 2 sirens that we don't know what their powers are, Steele and the 6th siren. I say 6th because Leech was the 7th as Nyriad put warnings to not open her vault to prevent it from getting out by calling herself the 7th referencing that she knew that there would only be 6 left after she locked herself up.
@@nathanlaleff4273you do fight her in the claptrap revolution dlc as a re animated cyborg.
@@boneheadcollective9452 Commandant Steele had telekinesis as a ability. Nothing Else. In her resurrected version by Claptrap she has merely got ninja skills, no siren ones.
@@jadieenenevent I thought she only used the ninja skills because sirens pass their powers on when they die? Since she's simply reanimated it would make sense that she wouldn't be able to use any
Cant wait for BL4. BL3 consistently gets trashed on for zero reason. Once a little bit of that magical nostalgia dust collects on BL3 and people start to see it through rose-colored glasses the same way they see BL2, then hopefully it will get the love it deserves. As far as Commandant Steele, honestly I don't think she was ever supposed to be that big of a deal other than being the first villain, and maybe sneaking in the fact that sirens transfer their power when they die. Obviously we have seen the destroyer from BL1, and there's references to the "Creator" in BL3, I'm wondering if the creator is going to be used as an excuse to bring back dead characters. Handsome Jack, the Calypso Twins, Scooter, Roland, I bet some familiar faces will be returning. (Although I do like the idea of AI Handsome Jack taking over Timothy's body and "returning to life" that way. For Borderlands 4 I wouldn't hate the idea of a playable Eridian character.
Zero reason? Ava alone is reason enough. She is insufferably self-righteous and shows zero character development the entire game through. It’s fine to introduce flawed, even irksome protagonists into a story, as long as they are also given some sort of redemption arc throughout it. _Nowhere_ in the game are we given even a hint of Ava’s character growth or self-reflection. She is terrible and brings the entire story down with her.
Admittedly Commandant Steele does feel like an antagonist that uses a scrapped asset, seeing as she uses Liliths original character model. So I can believe that yeah, she wan't meant to be more prominent in the series, but never say never.
I think BL3 will always be looked at fondly for its gameplay more than its storytelling, but thats not to say it didn't have its high points.
I do also believe that the "Creator" maybe be mentioned by name in dialogue during BL4, especially seeing as the 7th Siren is more than likely going to make an appearance, and will likely mention that the Destroyer has a good counterpart.
As for the returning characters, thats 100% going to happen! Either through the green crystal in the Tales from the Borderlands games, or like you sya, the Creator directly bringing some poeple back.
And while I love the idea of a playable Eridian, Gameplay wise it wouldn't make a lot of sense in my opinion, just because they would have to nerf the holy hell out of a member of a race that is meant ot be all powerful space techno wizards. But again, never say never!
@@waynepolo6193 ava was fine. She was supposed to be a teenager and behaved exactly like one. Luke Skywalker was a whiny brat in a new hope. Give ava time to grow.
@@tonyberryman3840 The issue was whether there is validity to the criticisms of BL3, not whether the writers can fix those problems later. Secondly, Luke blew up the Death Star by the end of A New Hope. And he did that by listening to his mentors and recognizing he was part of a team. He didn’t blame Han or Leia for Obi Wan’s death. Luke stepped up to the plate. Ava did her very best to avoid taking accountability at every turn.
Could she be better in BL4? Maybe. Does that make a difference to the legitimate criticisms of BL3? No.
@@waynepolo6193 Ava is like 12, the fact that you expect growth from her is the problem, she was put in the game to showcase Maya's growth, the story just sucks in general but Ava while annoying is not the cause of the story being trash
I want to go one day of looking at borderlands news without people complaining about a 15 year old character being annoying 🙄
Hope it's a black girl
borderlands is dead
If u hate bl3 so much yer life must be sad bl3 & its dlc are the shiz
But the writing is so cringe and gay it makes the entire game annoying to play unless you mute it
@@mikejett2733 I never said I hated 3, just that it was disappointing. I've even said in multiple replies to other comments that I enjoyed the gameplay of 3 and think it's solid. Just not the writing
@@45noop oh great yer the woke is real krowd klanservitive country's are so stupid
@@boneheadcollective9452 I don't play games 4 da writing like u typed I play games for the fun factor
@@mikejett2733Again, I never said that I play games exclusively for the writing at all. If you don't like the fact I've said I didn't enjoy the plot of BL3 that's fine, but don't put words in my mouth.