@@herbiecactus6687To me your opinion comes over harsh on Mr Pokorny, who has held that chair with nothing but distinction since 1988. It's your opinion, but not a widely held one I fancy.
@@MrMWPeach the CSO brass section has a rich tradition of its members retiring at least 5 years too late. I hear these guys several times a month, not really interested in the opinions of people who haven't attended a CSO performance in years.
@@herbiecactus6687I too used to live the life go to the concerts even subbed with them in college and afterwards. Went to a couple Ravinia performances two years ago : I was a bit under whelmed. Everything has its peak, nothing stays great forever. Maybe I was just unlucky. Maybe it was just a bad couple of nights. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Possibly the greatest orchestral brass section in the world at the time. Although this is obviously the edition without the additional brass choir. Great to hear those horns led by Dale Clevenger!
I often think the CSO is not nearly as loud as I remember in the 80s and 90s because of my hearing. This is a good reminder that they did used to be louder. Hope they examined their instruments for stress fractures after this performance.
The low brass section doesn't sound as loud nor as distinct since the renovation of Orchestra Hall in the mid 1990's. The ruin-ovation altered the hall acoustics which unfortunately resulted in emasculating the sound of the low brass section. I actually stopped attending concerts there for many years because of this.
@@craigrichmond7625 Agreed, as a visitor from NY I attended Orchestra Hall quite a few times. Post renovation the bass response in general was diminished. Could hardly hear the double basses. I remember the "Chicago Blare" very well and in some music it was very exciting, but it's totally the wrong sound for Bruckner. Gunter Wand changed it a bit with rotary trumpets but the orchestra hated him.
@@gerontius3 The trend on newer halls has been to create an open space behind the stage, often vineyard style modeled after The Philharmonie in Berlin, such as Disney Concert Hall, Elbphilharmonie Concert Hall, David Geffen Hall, Denver's Boettcher Concert Hall, Gewandhaus... Orchestra Hall has some open space behind the stage as well. Those halls require louder playing by the orchestra, the Berlin Philharmonic had adapted to their hall by playing louder, they play less loud in shoebox style halls. I'd heard them couple times at Disney Concert Hall, when it was relatively new, they sounded tremendous, they must have felt at home. In such settings, they have got to have at least six double basses, played loud, on large symphonic works. It is disappointing to hear that Chicago Orchestra does not sound right in the redesigned hall. It would be interesting to hear Berlin Philharmonic play out there.
@@gerontius3 I attend CSO about twice a month on average during the season and I'm right there with you-- the "old guard" doesn't get Bruckner. Stuck to the "he was an organist" thing and think the only way to play his music is to try to sound like a pipe organ. I did hear a beautiful B8 conducted by Thielemann last season. Gave the brass "the hand"for half the show.
@@herbiecactus6687 Yes, Thielmann does Brucknwr well in the old manner of Bohm Jochum and HVK. He did the 8th with the Vienna Phil in NY last season. Like the return of Karajan (almost). Of course it helps that the VPO string section is 50% louder than the CSO or any US orchestra
See how great an orchestra can sound without the agism bs of today. Average age here is probably 60 lolz. And they sound better than the current Chicago Symphony.
Lol what? I think out of all fields, classical music certainly doesn't contend with an ageism problem. I'd say the average age of most major US symphony orchestras is still at least 60...
Kind of stumbled across the finish line there... chops were chopped, intonation issues. The strings sounded indifferent... It doesn't help that Asahina chose to slow down so much in the finale instead of maintaining speed. The low brass kind of kept it presentable, but not exactly what I would imagine seeing posted.
With all the junk on RUclips, anything this band put out is worth listening to. Their "worst" playing is better than 99% of what's out there. They are human, therefore not perfect, but they are all true artists and we can learn from them even in their "weakness." That's the way I look at it.
Comparing the two only makes sense to a degree. Currently Amsterdam has one of of my favorite brass sections, they are unreal. I listened to both CSO and Amsterdam live and their entire orchestral playing concept is different. Dynamical challenges are so different, especially with the tricky hall in Chicago. I love the transparency of Amsterdam but the “wall of big but beautiful sound” idea that Chicago produces here is unparalleled to me.
The London Symphony with Maurice Murphy and Rod Franks takes some beating… there is a RUclips on here of Mahler 7 with Tilson Thomas last movement conducting… astounding.
They don't seem to be going for "Beautiful" in this clip. Someone posted the link to the whole performance above- maybe there's some "beautiful" in it.
@@sebastianbell9911agreed. Different playing concepts, different tonal concepts. It's like comparing the CSO to the Philadelphia Orchestra. 2 totally different bands!
Boa constrictor? The fugue before this, in the finale is up there with Bach. The coda from this finale symphony is the one where Bruckner lets it all hang out. Although I prefer his most original symphony the Sixth. Along with the 9th were the only two Bruckner symphonies that another Bernstein recorded. Though Lenny could play the eighth on the piano from memory.
Takashi Asahina’s US debut. Blessed to have been in the audience.
Oh, wow. I am incredibly jealous!
Gene Pokorny underpinning the whole section with some herculean tuba playing. Love it.
He could really wail in his day. If I've ever heard him play like this, it was so long ago I've forgotten.
@@herbiecactus6687To me your opinion comes over harsh on Mr Pokorny, who has held that chair with nothing but distinction since 1988. It's your opinion, but not a widely held one I fancy.
@@MrMWPeach the CSO brass section has a rich tradition of its members retiring at least 5 years too late. I hear these guys several times a month, not really interested in the opinions of people who haven't attended a CSO performance in years.
OK. Bye.
@@herbiecactus6687I too used to live the life go to the concerts even subbed with them in college and afterwards.
Went to a couple Ravinia performances two years ago : I was a bit under whelmed. Everything has its peak, nothing stays great forever.
Maybe I was just unlucky. Maybe it was just a bad couple of nights.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Bud was a force of nature.
Possibly the greatest orchestral brass section in the world at the time. Although this is obviously the edition without the additional brass choir. Great to hear those horns led by Dale Clevenger!
It's great to see and hear Herseth playing his Bach C again!
The Best Orchestral Trumpeter !
I often think the CSO is not nearly as loud as I remember in the 80s and 90s because of my hearing. This is a good reminder that they did used to be louder. Hope they examined their instruments for stress fractures after this performance.
The low brass section doesn't sound as loud nor as distinct since the renovation of Orchestra Hall in the mid 1990's. The ruin-ovation altered the hall acoustics which unfortunately resulted in emasculating the sound of the low brass section. I actually stopped attending concerts there for many years because of this.
@@craigrichmond7625 Agreed, as a visitor from NY I attended Orchestra Hall quite a few times. Post renovation the bass response in general was diminished. Could hardly hear the double basses. I remember the "Chicago Blare" very well and in some music it was very exciting, but it's totally the wrong sound for Bruckner. Gunter Wand changed it a bit with rotary trumpets but the orchestra hated him.
@@gerontius3 The trend on newer halls has been to create an open space behind the stage, often vineyard style modeled after The Philharmonie in Berlin, such as Disney Concert Hall, Elbphilharmonie Concert Hall, David Geffen Hall, Denver's Boettcher Concert Hall, Gewandhaus... Orchestra Hall has some open space behind the stage as well. Those halls require louder playing by the orchestra, the Berlin Philharmonic had adapted to their hall by playing louder, they play less loud in shoebox style halls. I'd heard them couple times at Disney Concert Hall, when it was relatively new, they sounded tremendous, they must have felt at home. In such settings, they have got to have at least six double basses, played loud, on large symphonic works. It is disappointing to hear that Chicago Orchestra does not sound right in the redesigned hall. It would be interesting to hear Berlin Philharmonic play out there.
@@gerontius3 I attend CSO about twice a month on average during the season and I'm right there with you-- the "old guard" doesn't get Bruckner. Stuck to the "he was an organist" thing and think the only way to play his music is to try to sound like a pipe organ. I did hear a beautiful B8 conducted by Thielemann last season. Gave the brass "the hand"for half the show.
@@herbiecactus6687 Yes, Thielmann does Brucknwr well in the old manner of Bohm Jochum and HVK. He did the 8th with the Vienna Phil in NY last season. Like the return of Karajan (almost). Of course it helps that the VPO string section is 50% louder than the CSO or any US orchestra
Bruckner and CSO is heaven ❤
The Chicago Symphony Orchestra under Georg Solti was at its best by far.
BRUTAL!
Could you add Asahina's name please?
朝比奈さんの名演！！
そしてジーンポコーニーの力強いチューバが心地よい！
See how great an orchestra can sound without the agism bs of today. Average age here is probably 60 lolz. And they sound better than the current Chicago Symphony.
Nothing beats experience
@@thezealouscellist1966 EXACTLY. And I'm only 29 lolz
Lol what? I think out of all fields, classical music certainly doesn't contend with an ageism problem. I'd say the average age of most major US symphony orchestras is still at least 60...
CSO Brass forever!!!
金管セクションのバンダ（別動隊）を全く必要としない恐るべきシカゴ交響楽団
この後の同コンビによるブルックナー第九も見たい
Donald Koss playing timpani
Mr Herseth WOW! Does anyone know Is that Mike Farrow on 4th trumpet?
Tim Kent
Tim Kent
You misspelled Mark Ridenour's name... 30 years with the section.
Who’s the CSO of today? Where can I turn it up to 11? 🤔
Keep your eye on Los Angeles with Andrew Bain and David Cooper.
Who is the conductor?
He'd better like brass
Takashi Asahina
Kind of stumbled across the finish line there... chops were chopped, intonation issues. The strings sounded indifferent... It doesn't help that Asahina chose to slow down so much in the finale instead of maintaining speed. The low brass kind of kept it presentable, but not exactly what I would imagine seeing posted.
With all the junk on RUclips, anything this band put out is worth listening to. Their "worst" playing is better than 99% of what's out there. They are human, therefore not perfect, but they are all true artists and we can learn from them even in their "weakness." That's the way I look at it.
What movement?
Finale Bruckner 5th
Lol Bud playing notes not written.
Il direttore..un battitore di tempo..un metronomo.bocciato.
Bud has skills which we unfortunately will never see the likes of again, Gene Pokorny is no doubt Arnold Jacob’s successor
Ah, the good old days. jw
piston trumpet for Bruckner....no thanks
Everyone looks so bored. Well, it IS Bruckner, so they have an excuse.
you wrong
Sorry - the Concertgebouw's brass section is much more beautiful
Comparing the two only makes sense to a degree. Currently Amsterdam has one of of my favorite brass sections, they are unreal. I listened to both CSO and Amsterdam live and their entire orchestral playing concept is different. Dynamical challenges are so different, especially with the tricky hall in Chicago. I love the transparency of Amsterdam but the “wall of big but beautiful sound” idea that Chicago produces here is unparalleled to me.
You are not a trumpet player. Sorry...
The London Symphony with Maurice Murphy and Rod Franks takes some beating… there is a RUclips on here of Mahler 7 with Tilson Thomas last movement conducting… astounding.
They don't seem to be going for "Beautiful" in this clip. Someone posted the link to the whole performance above- maybe there's some "beautiful" in it.
@@sebastianbell9911agreed. Different playing concepts, different tonal concepts. It's like comparing the CSO to the Philadelphia Orchestra. 2 totally different bands!
another symphonic boa constrictor.
Boa constrictor? The fugue before this, in the finale is up there with Bach. The coda from this finale symphony is the one
where Bruckner lets it all hang out. Although I prefer his most original symphony the Sixth. Along with the 9th were the
only two Bruckner symphonies that another Bernstein recorded. Though Lenny could play the eighth on the piano from memory.
@@barrybernstein9049 the epithet came from brahms. i 'm just agreeing with him, though i do make an exception for the 9th (ain't that big of me)?
What a bad Conducter!
you wrong