Bruh. This is heady stuff. I've been really attracted to theosis since i first heard about it and trying to work that idea through the calvinist forge, but you did a better job in 5 minutes than I've managed in a year.
This is so nerdy that when we had asked our teacher a similar question to our religion teacher she just straight up said "I don't care" like this is crazy! I have always wondered this tbh thanks for making this video!
I actually wrote one of my final essays in theological college on the Absolute Primacy of Christ (one of the technical names for this topic), and more theologians than you'd think agree with the premise. The two big ones for me were Duns Scotus and Maximus the Confessor. Maximus can even be interpreted as going so far as to liken Christ's divinizing relationship with humanity, with humanity's relationship with creation (born of dust of the earth, and the breath of God), as He connects us to the infinite, so we mediate for creation! As mentioned, Barth gets thrown in, even TF Torrance gets a say in some senses. My favourite argument with this is: if the Incarnation is an act which glorifies God and communicates His love for creation, why would He make such an act contingent on humanity's greatest mistake? Instead, in the Incarnation, Christ comes to His world, not as an alien, but as the final centrepiece, as was intended from the beginning.
Without the Fall, the Garden of Eden would have been God's kingdom on Earth, and maybe Christ would take on flesh as part of building that kingdom, but it is a stretch to say He would have to. After all, Adam already directly communicated with God without the intercession of Christ.
That's what I was thinking, God already had an in-person relationship with mankind, it was only that sin severed that relationship and required Jesus to come in the flesh to mediate between God and man.
@@dystopia72 Colossians 1:16? "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him."
Im super excited to hear this. This is one of those topics that i kinda left until i understood more and forgot about. Im a Lutheran but i like the way you explain things. This is gonna be a banger!
Redeemed Zoomed I recently got attacked about (myself) being "Homophobic" I explained to the two very liberal girls who were attacking me that I was Christian and while I don't agree with what gay peoples ideals and values I would never be discriminative towards them. They proceeded to say horrible things towards me. This was couple nights ago and I don't remember all of the conversation in detail but are there some solid arguments to respond to next time? P.S anyone can help me out here.
I can definitely relate. That basically was all of high school for me - getting cancelled by liberal girls for holding normal Christian views that basically everyone held about 20 years ago. I wouldn't worry about that they say. Just use their unkindness as an example of why non-Christian society creates bad character.
I am so sorry you had to go through that. That's what happens when we get tribalism; when one keeps hearing about how horrible/evil/bigoted/whatever the other side is, one starts justifying hostility towards "the other."
@@redeemedzoomer6053 I wouldn't say that exactly. It's more a result of good old-fashioned tribalism which anyone, Christians and non-Christians, can do, though you could say that is itself an example of mankind's sinful nature. Even in the face of genuine evil from 'the other side,' it's important to be careful not to feed into that hatred by retaliating. Love thy enemy, so the saying goes. This is coming from a self-identified secular liberal btw.
A Catholic preist/theologian from the 13th century named John Duns Scotus made the argument that Jesus would have become incarnate, even if humanity never sinned. You should look into his view.
0:44 "If Adam hadn't sinned" what about Eve? Would it be like a situation where only females had to have their sins forgiven? (Oh boy that's going to piss off the women empowerment warriors)
I never gave it much thought, I've always wondered how Jesus never sinned, granted he was perfect since he was fully God and fully man, yet he was still a person, but he didn't sin.
Dear Redeemed Zoomer, I appreciate that you helped others learn about what Christianity is. I am wondering if you could make a video about how most contemporary philosophers are atheists and what we should do about them.
I don’t think I understand Theosis fully yet, but it does seem to be something that historically Christians pretty much all held to. So I am convinced that I need to hold to some form of Theosis to be a historic Christian.
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." (John 1:12-13) "Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2nd Peter 1:4)
Related to Kingdom Craft, could you make the land really far out mining lands I want to build a church I am a part of, but it requires a sizeable amount of land in the wilderness. Because the Church its self is in the wilderness and is kinda nomadic.
Wow! This channel is a marvel, and I am loving this content. Keep up this amazing work you're doing. I'm learning more about the Christian faith here than I do from most of my peer group, which says a lot-both of this channel and my generation. Anyways thank you for the great content.
Question: In your belief of biblical evolution (which I agree with), who were Adam and Eve? The first Homo Sapiens? The first hominids? Two Homo Sapiens that branched off of the rest to be truly set apart?
Hey Redeemed Zoomer, I was wondering if you can do a video on Presbyterianism, I'm considering it atm, but I dont fully understand it. I only understand that you can pray for God to have mercy on a child that he/she be saved, and the Sacraments I dont to fully understand how it works, I have an idea but I wanted to ask for help concerning these topics, thanks. You guys reading this can help as well.
2:00 Nope. I strongly disagree with your notion that it couldn't have been any other way, because if it couldn't have been any other way, then how can Adam and Eve still be held responsible?
Hey Redeemed Zoomer, i was looking for a Teology Christian Channel and i found yours and i've loved so much your iniciative and wanted to thank you by all your work, it helped me a lot in my faith❤ I remembered that you have a discord server, so could i join in it?😔🙏
“For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became truly human.” - Nicene Creed What does it mean?
Ordained minister here with an MDiv and a PhD, for whatever that’s worth. I’m not a Presbyterian but a United Methodist who holds a kind of modified Reformed theology (which is part of the Methodist heritage-as important as Wesley is, he was just one of the founders and teachers of early Methodism, many of whom were Reformed Anglicans). I just want to say that your basic argument here is completely orthodox from what I can tell. In fact, Wesley and other Methodists taught that Christ’s incarnation, death, resurrection, and glorification redeemed not only human sin but all creation, and that in the eschaton all things would be restored and fully redeemed through Christ. Wesley even believed that animals, which were so low compared to humans due to the curse of the Fall, would be redeemed and freed from corruption such that they would become more like humanity. So you’re not alone in seeing the universal effects of Christ’s incarnation, life, and work.
I don’t know about making things doctrine based off hypotheticals but As far as the personal relationship, didn’t God walk and talk with Adam and Eve in the garden?
Sin or not, all of us would still fall short of the glory of God. The sinners and the righteous both need Jesus, though there aren't a lot of 100% all the time righteous people.
Something deeper? What could be deeper than forgiveness for our sins? It's almost disrespectful or heretical to imply that there's something deeper. I know you didn't mean it like that though.
Dear Reedemd Zoomer I have a question. Alot of people have been saying Jesus was an anarchist. I would like to know if that is true so I beg you to please answer thia question or any other people.
Could Adam have died for Eve when she approached him with the forbidden fruit? Should Adam have sought and found the serpent, crushed it under foot, and offered to take Eve's punishment for her sin? Was it possible for Adam to atone for her sin, impart his rightness to her, and secure her from the threat of any future sin? Would this "faith" by Adam have been enough to unite humanity to the eternal Son? Or was the game up when Eve sinned, no matter what Adam chose. Where was the Rubicon crossed, when Eve sinned or Adam? When Paul describes Jesus as the second Adam, he implies that Adam has a purpose beyond simply being that went unfulfilled, and that Jesus fulfilled it. Did Jesus fulfill that purpose with His perfect righteousness or also with the cross? Is Adam a typology-pointer for the entire incarnate life of the Son, even Jesus' present resurrected state, or is Adam only a typology-pointer for the incarnate Son's righteousness only?
First I think we need to separate sin from the knowledge of sin and thus the guilt of sin. While Adam’s act has those connected I would postulate that Christ would still be need for Adam, Eve and descendants would sin without knowledge and thus without guilt. Their sinfully acts would still require forgiveness from a perfect God. The tradition of age of accountability best support by David and the loss of his son to Bathsheba would suggest such a view is acceptable.
Barth version of creator creature distinction is not of classic reformed definition. Barth actually destroy that in his concept of history, geschichte.
Good point, creation pre-fall was very good but not perfect. That includes Adam: “The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.” 1 Corinthians 15:47
8:15 Him, A Presbyterian: explaining the differences on how certain sects of Christianity few how Jesus exists in Communion. Me, A non-dominational closely linked Baptist: Wait what are you talking about here?
Im an Agnostic, i tend to lurk in this server because i do like listening to religious podcasts because i debate these things and if im going to be arguing with Christians i want to at least know what im talking about. i wont pretend to know everything but im learning. this topic is interesting. if there was no sin would there be a need for a savior?
My answer to the question is would it be necessary: no, but the incarnation would have still happened in my opinion because God wants a relationship. My evidence for this train of thought is that God was in the Garden of Eden.
I agree that Christ is necessary to be incarnated on earth as creation to be a mediator and connect Mankind with God as God in a form of Man to show how much he loves us.
I disagree with you on this question, mainly because I disagree that the only way to be united to God is through Christ. For example, Adam and Eve had a relationship with God without the need of Jesus. God even “walked” in the garden of eden with them (genesis 3:8).
So, "pope" is an affectionate term for father. Both the coptic patriarch and the Catholic patriarch are given this title, but it's not official in either case. The official title is arch bishop of Alexandria and Rome respectively. There are several arch bishop seats which also come with the title patriarch, but only the one in Rome has the implications we associate with "pope" in the west. The coptic "pope" is more like the arch bishop of Constantinople. Very important yes, but he doesn't claim to be a principal of unity.
That might be poetic language, or it might be that he "walked with them" in a way that was still more distant than his ultimate goal. Regardless, the account of Eden is full of temple language. Even in Eden, God wants to work with man to make the entire earth a "temple" so to speak, implying that even than, his purpose was not fully implemented, only started off in great way.
I can't speak for what Lutherans believe, but a belief in transubstantiation does not mean that Christ's body is omnipresent. God can miraculously multiply any physical substance (not to mention moving it through space and time), including the body and blood of Christ. There's a reason there's a feeding miracle at the beginning of John chapter 6. Do you suppose God made the fish and the loaves omnipresent? If so, then there wouldn't have been twelve baskets left over--the world would have been overrun with it. The same is true of the body and blood of Christ--if they were omnipresent, you couldn't walk down the street without tripping over them. No, they're only multiplied enough to replace the bread and the wine on the altar.
I have questions after this video. Help🙏🏼 1. If something is perfect - does it mean that it is infinite? 2. And is infinite=divine? Or is it just the other way around? 3. Has math always existed? 4. And why is alpha and omega, beginning and the end one of God’s titles? Doesn’t that mean that God has a beginning and an end=finite? Someone answer!!🫶🏼🫶🏼
I will gladly answer! 1. That's a good question. I would be inclined to say yes, but I don't know. I think if humans are to be made perfect, we'll have to participate in God's infinite-ness in some way. 2. Yes, I can't think of anything infinite that isn't God Himself, or something in the mind of God like math 3. Yes 4. "BEING" the beginning and the end isn't the same has HAVING a beginning and an end. God is the beginning of our universe, which means our universe has a beginning, not that God has a beginning. God is the "end" of the world too, but "end" doesn't imply destruction. It just implies that the story of the universe is leading to something, like a goal. Hope this helps!
@@redeemedzoomer6053 This helps a lot! Thank you! You say that math is in the mind of God, what does that mean? Is it just his laws or his pattern or his way of creating or like a tool? Or is it a part of him? Like if math is infinite and God is infinite. And if infinite is divine - what role does math play?
@@majaekros5086 I wouldn't say math is "part" of God, since God has no parts. However, the mind of God is infinite, meaning it contains all possible ideas. Anything you can possibly think of, God already thought of it. Math is just evidence that such a mind must exist.
This is a silly question that can only exist if your branch of Christianity is heavily based on theological arguments, structures, and schemas. I think the catholic church and the reformed tradition fall under that. In those traditions, you make statements about what God wants, can do, does, and wants for humanity beyond what the scriptures explicitly say, because you've formed a theological framework through human rationality, with the scriptures as basis (Think Thomas Aquinas). In such traditions, its possible to ask hypothetical questions that are against reality and then put a hypothetical God in such situations because you've reasoned out, almost formulaically, how God must act in every situation, and even in situations that don't exist. That is the folly of such traditions. It's a theological argumentative treadmill. There is no peace or rest in a framework like that. It puts reason above qualities of God that the bible affirms. Let me explain. If the bible says God is Love, the rationalist will find parts of scripture that form a mechanism that they then say is a biblical teaching. That mechanism may contradict that God is Love, but they'll ignore that because they have used reason and logic to construct a siege engine against this Castle of God. I don't wish to disparage these folks. But I must also say that these questions are best unasked, because we know God is above them. He has already heard these questions before the formation of our world, and EXPLICITLY Ephesians says that God's plan for humanity as it is in the Gospel was the version that glorifies God in heaven the most.
@@marvalice3455 and therefore God is above human reason. But let's not equate having this gift from God with having free reign to apply logic to scripture like we're building a tower of babel to heaven.
Go read the Westminster Confession of Faifth, which summarizes Reformed Theology, and you will see that literally everything that is stated is based on the Bible (unlike the Catholic Catechism. In fact, the main criticism of the Reformers was precisely that the Catholic Church was creating doctrines and practices without a biblical basis, but they, like Catholics, highly valued theology).
@@pedroguimaraes6094 my branch of Christianity is confessional as well. I know what catechisms and confessions are. It’s just my tradition stops where the reformed tradition continues.
@@Rolando_Cueva before sin int the garden who says baby needed to be taken care of. and do you know who taught adam instantly language to name animals and talk?
Sin is not an Act, it's a Fact. There is no "if" about sin. We are born into death. We die with Christ and in that death, death itself dies, and we live on in Christ. Why it has to be that way, I don't know. If Adam was perfect, he wouldn't have been vulnerable to temptation. That imperfection was sin as a fact. The act just revealed the sin that had previously been hidden by ignorance. Sin, imperfection, limitation, and mortality are all tied together somehow. Christ is the only way out.
9:17 this is false let's lay out an important distinction between person and nature a nature is a set of attributes that describe someone in terms of what he is a persona is a set of attributes that describe someone in terms of who he he is and a person is a being that has both types of sets. Using this we can conclude that Jesus isn't finite because while he has a set of finite attributes he also has a set of infinite attributes. Infinite plus finite still equals infinite that's basic math. the set of finite attributes is finite but the person who possesses it isn't
You're committing the monophysite heresy. The natures of Jesus cannot be added together. He has a finite nature AND an Infinite nature. They cannot be fully joined nor can they be fully separate.
@@judahkozel8270 again you fail to understand the person nature distinction the natures are separate sets that united in one person meaning that (while the individual elements of each set didn't mix with those of the other set) the sum of the elements of both sets as well as the elements of Christ's persona make up the person therefore we should expect a different answer to the question (is it finite?) If we are talking about the person because Christ has both finite and infinite attributes which would make him infinite. A good analogy is the relationship between body and spirit both are different things but they make up what you are they don't mix with each other but the sum of both makes up what you are. Any other view will lead to Nestorianism
@@kiroshakir7935 Again I fail? When did i fail before? I think you made a good analogy with the differences between the body and soul. If I was to ask you "do you have eternal life?" You would answer yes, but it is my soul that is capable of eternal and not my phycle body. This is the same with jesus' nature. I'll ask another question. Q: Is jesus capable of sin? A: NO. Jesus Human nature is capable of sin (This is why satan tried to tempt Jesus) and jesus' divine nature is not capable of sin. because Jesus' divine nature is incapable of sin it stop jesus from sin, jesus then doesn't sin. It is still important to note that Jesus' human nature is capable of sin, nothing has change. The essences aren't communicated! SO, Q: Is jesus capable of the Infinte? A: YES. While jesus' human nature isn't, jesus' divine nature is capable. YOU ARE NOT TAKING A SUM NOR YOU ARE ADDING THEM TOGETHER. Although jesus is capable of infinte because the divine nature is capable. Yet still, the jesus' human nature is not. The natures may seem combine but they're not.
@@judahkozel8270 I wrote a longer reply but It ignored the main problem. The first question was is humanity capable of the infinite I don't think you're saying it is so my second question isn't (is Jesus capable of the infinite ?) my question is (is Jesus infinite?). I think he is infinite because Infinite plus finite is infinite do you understand the question now? I argue that you can't use Jesus as an example of finite doing infinite because he is infinite he has an infinite nature that does the infinite and finite and a finite nature that does only finite Jesus can't be both finite and infinite a part of Jesus is finite that is his human nature but as a person (as a whole) he is infinite if you disagree then answer the question is Jesus infinite without dividing him into human and divine tell me as a whole is he infinite Edit: no the soul isn't infinite Colossians 1:17 New International Version 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. If god decides to erase your soul from existence then it will be erased our physical bodies will be purified after the resurrection and will enjoy the same thing read first Corinthians 15 other edit I would prefer to discuss this on discord
![Intro to Tool Dev in Unity - An Improvised Live Course [part 1/4]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pZ45O2hg_30/mqdefault.jpg)
Bruh. This is heady stuff. I've been really attracted to theosis since i first heard about it and trying to work that idea through the calvinist forge, but you did a better job in 5 minutes than I've managed in a year.
What wouldn’t be attractive of theosis?
@@jhoughjr1Wut? Is that a genuine question?
This is so nerdy that when we had asked our teacher a similar question to our religion teacher she just straight up said "I don't care" like this is crazy! I have always wondered this tbh thanks for making this video!
Day 4 asking for a Christian College Tier List
You son of a Bible, I’m in!
Actually, yes please!
How would he know if he’s never been?
@@jhoughjr1lol
Amazing idea!!!
...And this is how a Minecraft-video can turn into theological doctrine.
Lol
Hey Zoomer, just as an idea, I'd really appreciate a Bible Translation tier list video. Thanks!
for real
Same!
good idea
what is your username?@@Ignoramus1
The finest form of nerd rants, theological nerd rants
I actually wrote one of my final essays in theological college on the Absolute Primacy of Christ (one of the technical names for this topic), and more theologians than you'd think agree with the premise. The two big ones for me were Duns Scotus and Maximus the Confessor. Maximus can even be interpreted as going so far as to liken Christ's divinizing relationship with humanity, with humanity's relationship with creation (born of dust of the earth, and the breath of God), as He connects us to the infinite, so we mediate for creation!
As mentioned, Barth gets thrown in, even TF Torrance gets a say in some senses.
My favourite argument with this is: if the Incarnation is an act which glorifies God and communicates His love for creation, why would He make such an act contingent on humanity's greatest mistake?
Instead, in the Incarnation, Christ comes to His world, not as an alien, but as the final centrepiece, as was intended from the beginning.
Without the Fall, the Garden of Eden would have been God's kingdom on Earth, and maybe Christ would take on flesh as part of building that kingdom, but it is a stretch to say He would have to. After all, Adam already directly communicated with God without the intercession of Christ.
If I remember correctly, Revelation (I think) stated near chapter 20-ish that the world was made for Christ.
That's what I was thinking, God already had an in-person relationship with mankind, it was only that sin severed that relationship and required Jesus to come in the flesh to mediate between God and man.
@@dystopia72 Colossians 1:16?
"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him."
HE also came to show us how to live holy.
Sure that is true, but that is only needed if we did not sin.
Holily
Im super excited to hear this. This is one of those topics that i kinda left until i understood more and forgot about. Im a Lutheran but i like the way you explain things. This is gonna be a banger!
I know you already said yes, but I'm looking for the video on rabbinic judaism!
If God predetermined who's saved and who goes to hell, then isn't the cross redundant?
This video is so good I honestly saved it. I never do that with videos, but I did it because this perspective completely blew my mind.
Redeemed Zoomed I recently got attacked about (myself) being "Homophobic" I explained to the two very liberal girls who were attacking me that I was Christian and while I don't agree with what gay peoples ideals and values I would never be discriminative towards them. They proceeded to say horrible things towards me. This was couple nights ago and I don't remember all of the conversation in detail but are there some solid arguments to respond to next time? P.S anyone can help me out here.
I can definitely relate. That basically was all of high school for me - getting cancelled by liberal girls for holding normal Christian views that basically everyone held about 20 years ago. I wouldn't worry about that they say. Just use their unkindness as an example of why non-Christian society creates bad character.
@@redeemedzoomer6053 thanks m8 love the vids.
I am so sorry you had to go through that. That's what happens when we get tribalism; when one keeps hearing about how horrible/evil/bigoted/whatever the other side is, one starts justifying hostility towards "the other."
@@redeemedzoomer6053 I wouldn't say that exactly. It's more a result of good old-fashioned tribalism which anyone, Christians and non-Christians, can do, though you could say that is itself an example of mankind's sinful nature.
Even in the face of genuine evil from 'the other side,' it's important to be careful not to feed into that hatred by retaliating. Love thy enemy, so the saying goes.
This is coming from a self-identified secular liberal btw.
If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. (John 15:18)
A Catholic preist/theologian from the 13th century named John Duns Scotus made the argument that Jesus would have become incarnate, even if humanity never sinned. You should look into his view.
Several Eastern theologians argue the same thing.
@@bigscarysteve Maximus the Confessor was probably the first, right?
Haven't watched yet, already loving the topic. A very fascinating thing to explore.
0:44 "If Adam hadn't sinned" what about Eve? Would it be like a situation where only females had to have their sins forgiven? (Oh boy that's going to piss off the women empowerment warriors)
9:45 "we, the lutherans" you're not even trying to hide anymore bro 😢
😂
9:45 tho
I never gave it much thought, I've always wondered how Jesus never sinned, granted he was perfect since he was fully God and fully man, yet he was still a person, but he didn't sin.
Dear Redeemed Zoomer, I appreciate that you helped others learn about what Christianity is. I am wondering if you could make a video about how most contemporary philosophers are atheists and what we should do about them.
I don’t think I understand Theosis fully yet, but it does seem to be something that historically Christians pretty much all held to. So I am convinced that I need to hold to some form of Theosis to be a historic Christian.
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." (John 1:12-13)
"Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2nd Peter 1:4)
Related to Kingdom Craft, could you make the land really far out mining lands I want to build a church I am a part of, but it requires a sizeable amount of land in the wilderness. Because the Church its self is in the wilderness and is kinda nomadic.
Wow! This channel is a marvel, and I am loving this content. Keep up this amazing work you're doing. I'm learning more about the Christian faith here than I do from most of my peer group, which says a lot-both of this channel and my generation. Anyways thank you for the great content.
Funny you post this as I’m going through Luther’s commentary on Galatians. Good timing!
The ancient debate between Scottis and Aquinas. Personally of the scottis approach.
Question: In your belief of biblical evolution (which I agree with), who were Adam and Eve? The first Homo Sapiens? The first hominids? Two Homo Sapiens that branched off of the rest to be truly set apart?
Hey Redeemed Zoomer, I was wondering if you can do a video on Presbyterianism, I'm considering it atm, but I dont fully understand it. I only understand that you can pray for God to have mercy on a child that he/she be saved, and the Sacraments I dont to fully understand how it works, I have an idea but I wanted to ask for help concerning these topics, thanks. You guys reading this can help as well.
Check out my video "Reformed theology explained in 3 minutes" because I'm Presbyterian and I made a quick video about it!
Thanks so much God Bless@@redeemedzoomer6053
@@redeemedzoomer6053 can you make a video on other Protestant RUclipsrs? Other Protestant RUclips channels
So far surprised as idk what reason could be for the incarnation aside from redemption
This was probably the best video you have made so far, great job 🙏🏻
Bro gets shoved in lockers at seminary
Where do I go to join the Server?
2:00 Nope. I strongly disagree with your notion that it couldn't have been any other way, because if it couldn't have been any other way, then how can Adam and Eve still be held responsible?
I would like to add ephesians 4:10 to the discussion. Despite of this, could you make a video about hyperfocus on specific topics of knowledge?
Hey Redeemed Zoomer, i was looking for a Teology Christian Channel and i found yours and i've loved so much your iniciative and wanted to thank you by all your work, it helped me a lot in my faith❤
I remembered that you have a discord server, so could i join in it?😔🙏
Yes. discord.gg/AUzQZWau
Good arguments as usual. I’ve seen two very inspired videos today, here and pints.
“For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became truly human.”
- Nicene Creed
What does it mean?
Ordained minister here with an MDiv and a PhD, for whatever that’s worth. I’m not a Presbyterian but a United Methodist who holds a kind of modified Reformed theology (which is part of the Methodist heritage-as important as Wesley is, he was just one of the founders and teachers of early Methodism, many of whom were Reformed Anglicans). I just want to say that your basic argument here is completely orthodox from what I can tell. In fact, Wesley and other Methodists taught that Christ’s incarnation, death, resurrection, and glorification redeemed not only human sin but all creation, and that in the eschaton all things would be restored and fully redeemed through Christ. Wesley even believed that animals, which were so low compared to humans due to the curse of the Fall, would be redeemed and freed from corruption such that they would become more like humanity. So you’re not alone in seeing the universal effects of Christ’s incarnation, life, and work.
Thoughts on the Babylon Bee?
very funny, better and cleaner than the Onion for sure
@@redeemedzoomer6053 And sadly, often turns out to be more accurate to reality than "legitimate" MSM sources.
I don’t know about making things doctrine based off hypotheticals but
As far as the personal relationship, didn’t God walk and talk with Adam and Eve in the garden?
Petition for Redeemed Zoomer to get feather falling boots.
How can I join the server?
He has a video on that
Sin or not, all of us would still fall short of the glory of God. The sinners and the righteous both need Jesus, though there aren't a lot of 100% all the time righteous people.
Hi Zoomer I've noticed that u seem to have a negative view on CS Lewis? Why is that?
I don't! I love C.S. Lewis!
@@redeemedzoomer6053 Oh Im sorry! I noticed how u skipped over Cs Lewis in a couple of theology videos so I thought u didnt like him.
Something deeper?
What could be deeper than forgiveness for our sins?
It's almost disrespectful or heretical to imply that there's something deeper. I know you didn't mean it like that though.
Dear Reedemd Zoomer I have a question. Alot of people have been saying Jesus was an anarchist. I would like to know if that is true so I beg you to please answer thia question or any other people.
It’s not.
@@TitusCastiglione1503 thank you brother
@@slovenianmapping1747 you are welcome good sir. God bless you.
Jesus is a monarchist. And he intends to make us all kings and Queens.
@@marvalice3455 based. All praise to God-Emperor Jesus.
Could Adam have died for Eve when she approached him with the forbidden fruit? Should Adam have sought and found the serpent, crushed it under foot, and offered to take Eve's punishment for her sin? Was it possible for Adam to atone for her sin, impart his rightness to her, and secure her from the threat of any future sin? Would this "faith" by Adam have been enough to unite humanity to the eternal Son? Or was the game up when Eve sinned, no matter what Adam chose. Where was the Rubicon crossed, when Eve sinned or Adam? When Paul describes Jesus as the second Adam, he implies that Adam has a purpose beyond simply being that went unfulfilled, and that Jesus fulfilled it. Did Jesus fulfill that purpose with His perfect righteousness or also with the cross? Is Adam a typology-pointer for the entire incarnate life of the Son, even Jesus' present resurrected state, or is Adam only a typology-pointer for the incarnate Son's righteousness only?
Wait so is this a public christian server… ive been looking for one!
I am a seminary student and I would love to speak to you about this topic and other things.
First I think we need to separate sin from the knowledge of sin and thus the guilt of sin. While Adam’s act has those connected I would postulate that Christ would still be need for Adam, Eve and descendants would sin without knowledge and thus without guilt. Their sinfully acts would still require forgiveness from a perfect God. The tradition of age of accountability best support by David and the loss of his son to Bathsheba would suggest such a view is acceptable.
Barth version of creator creature distinction is not of classic reformed definition. Barth actually destroy that in his concept of history, geschichte.
Good point, creation pre-fall was very good but not perfect. That includes Adam: “The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.”
1 Corinthians 15:47
If they didn't sin in the garden, than 1 of their kids or grandkids would have eventually
Favorite churches tier list when aaaaa
Already have one! Look up "Christian denominations tier list"
8:15 Him, A Presbyterian: explaining the differences on how certain sects of Christianity few how Jesus exists in Communion.
Me, A non-dominational closely linked Baptist: Wait what are you talking about here?
Im an Agnostic, i tend to lurk in this server because i do like listening to religious podcasts because i debate these things and if im going to be arguing with Christians i want to at least know what im talking about. i wont pretend to know everything but im learning.
this topic is interesting. if there was no sin would there be a need for a savior?
My answer to the question is would it be necessary: no, but the incarnation would have still happened in my opinion because God wants a relationship. My evidence for this train of thought is that God was in the Garden of Eden.
We could dumb it right down and say Jesus is God's access point to Creation. I know it's much, much deeper, but brass tacks and all that...
I agree that Christ is necessary to be incarnated on earth as creation to be a mediator and connect Mankind with God as God in a form of Man to show how much he loves us.
I disagree with you on this question, mainly because I disagree that the only way to be united to God is through Christ. For example, Adam and Eve had a relationship with God without the need of Jesus. God even “walked” in the garden of eden with them (genesis 3:8).
I think that's because there was no need of Jesus at the time.
@@PetroBeherha Yeah exactly but zoomer thinks there was still need of Jesus at this time
Thomists ans Scotists wefe discussing that long before the reformation.
And now the time has come. To ask a totally unrelated question. Do you play other games as well in your free time?
do a Oriental Orthodox vid no one gives them enough credit especially the Copts they apparently have a Pope
So, "pope" is an affectionate term for father. Both the coptic patriarch and the Catholic patriarch are given this title, but it's not official in either case. The official title is arch bishop of Alexandria and Rome respectively. There are several arch bishop seats which also come with the title patriarch, but only the one in Rome has the implications we associate with "pope" in the west.
The coptic "pope" is more like the arch bishop of Constantinople. Very important yes, but he doesn't claim to be a principal of unity.
i know i am just going of what i got from a video and to get zooomers attention so he makes vid on it@@marvalice3455
What about in Eden where God already walked with man? (Gen 3:8)
That might be poetic language, or it might be that he "walked with them" in a way that was still more distant than his ultimate goal.
Regardless, the account of Eden is full of temple language. Even in Eden, God wants to work with man to make the entire earth a "temple" so to speak, implying that even than, his purpose was not fully implemented, only started off in great way.
thanks for the explanation :)@@marvalice3455
is kingdomcraft a public server or is it just you and some friends?
Dude who put my water's electron on Ohio?
It's a canon event
The electron could be in Delaware, Ohio 🤯
11:00 That's not true, God spoke to Adam and Eve directly in the garden
Universe is unable to ... (whatever) - because Lord made it this way ?
Masterpiece of a video
Do a video of soteriology, you said stage 3 progressive Christians are still Christians and I wonder by what means?
you need to do some landscaping.
Can christians be anarchists?
I can't speak for what Lutherans believe, but a belief in transubstantiation does not mean that Christ's body is omnipresent. God can miraculously multiply any physical substance (not to mention moving it through space and time), including the body and blood of Christ. There's a reason there's a feeding miracle at the beginning of John chapter 6. Do you suppose God made the fish and the loaves omnipresent? If so, then there wouldn't have been twelve baskets left over--the world would have been overrun with it. The same is true of the body and blood of Christ--if they were omnipresent, you couldn't walk down the street without tripping over them. No, they're only multiplied enough to replace the bread and the wine on the altar.
Yes, to fulfil the Prophecies
But where is the fun in not sinning?
I want to build the church I go to in Minecraft, just wanted to let you know.😃
3:28 Jesus wasn’t born in Palestine that name didn’t come about till hundreds of years later
It was called Judea at the time
@@sharkinator7819 I know
Another great video! but i agree with the title haha
“Especially to be Protestant” lmao
Well researched
I have questions after this video. Help🙏🏼
1. If something is perfect - does it mean that it is infinite?
2. And is infinite=divine? Or is it just the other way around?
3. Has math always existed?
4. And why is alpha and omega, beginning and the end one of God’s titles? Doesn’t that mean that God has a beginning and an end=finite?
Someone answer!!🫶🏼🫶🏼
I will gladly answer!
1. That's a good question. I would be inclined to say yes, but I don't know. I think if humans are to be made perfect, we'll have to participate in God's infinite-ness in some way.
2. Yes, I can't think of anything infinite that isn't God Himself, or something in the mind of God like math
3. Yes
4. "BEING" the beginning and the end isn't the same has HAVING a beginning and an end. God is the beginning of our universe, which means our universe has a beginning, not that God has a beginning. God is the "end" of the world too, but "end" doesn't imply destruction. It just implies that the story of the universe is leading to something, like a goal.
Hope this helps!
@@redeemedzoomer6053 This helps a lot! Thank you!
You say that math is in the mind of God, what does that mean? Is it just his laws or his pattern or his way of creating or like a tool? Or is it a part of him? Like if math is infinite and God is infinite. And if infinite is divine - what role does math play?
@@majaekros5086 I wouldn't say math is "part" of God, since God has no parts. However, the mind of God is infinite, meaning it contains all possible ideas. Anything you can possibly think of, God already thought of it. Math is just evidence that such a mind must exist.
This is a silly question that can only exist if your branch of Christianity is heavily based on theological arguments, structures, and schemas. I think the catholic church and the reformed tradition fall under that. In those traditions, you make statements about what God wants, can do, does, and wants for humanity beyond what the scriptures explicitly say, because you've formed a theological framework through human rationality, with the scriptures as basis (Think Thomas Aquinas).
In such traditions, its possible to ask hypothetical questions that are against reality and then put a hypothetical God in such situations because you've reasoned out, almost formulaically, how God must act in every situation, and even in situations that don't exist. That is the folly of such traditions. It's a theological argumentative treadmill. There is no peace or rest in a framework like that. It puts reason above qualities of God that the bible affirms. Let me explain. If the bible says God is Love, the rationalist will find parts of scripture that form a mechanism that they then say is a biblical teaching. That mechanism may contradict that God is Love, but they'll ignore that because they have used reason and logic to construct a siege engine against this Castle of God.
I don't wish to disparage these folks. But I must also say that these questions are best unasked, because we know God is above them. He has already heard these questions before the formation of our world, and EXPLICITLY Ephesians says that God's plan for humanity as it is in the Gospel was the version that glorifies God in heaven the most.
Woah, this was great to read. God bless you for sharing it and for also remaining peaceful
Human reason is a gift from God.
@@marvalice3455 and therefore God is above human reason. But let's not equate having this gift from God with having free reign to apply logic to scripture like we're building a tower of babel to heaven.
Go read the Westminster Confession of Faifth, which summarizes Reformed Theology, and you will see that literally everything that is stated is based on the Bible (unlike the Catholic Catechism. In fact, the main criticism of the Reformers was precisely that the Catholic Church was creating doctrines and practices without a biblical basis, but they, like Catholics, highly valued theology).
@@pedroguimaraes6094 my branch of Christianity is confessional as well. I know what catechisms and confessions are. It’s just my tradition stops where the reformed tradition continues.
Why did God make Adam and adult instantly and Jesus had to be born? Also, how could God know man was going to kill him if we have free will?
Who would take care of baby Adam otherwise?
@@Rolando_Cueva before sin int the garden who says baby needed to be taken care of. and do you know who taught adam instantly language to name animals and talk?
I think you should use the word “continuous”, not “approximate”.
Nice vid
Amen❤❤🎉🎉😊😊
Day 1 of asking for video Redesigning Denomination Logos
Who does redeemed Zoomer dislike more; Heretics, Heathens, or atheists.
Sin is not an Act, it's a Fact. There is no "if" about sin. We are born into death. We die with Christ and in that death, death itself dies, and we live on in Christ. Why it has to be that way, I don't know. If Adam was perfect, he wouldn't have been vulnerable to temptation. That imperfection was sin as a fact. The act just revealed the sin that had previously been hidden by ignorance. Sin, imperfection, limitation, and mortality are all tied together somehow. Christ is the only way out.
Zoomer, watch Sam Shamoun explain why he is not calvinist. He was a 5 point calvinist before.
Zoomer!!!
9:17 this is false let's lay out an important distinction between person and nature a nature is a set of attributes that describe someone in terms of what he is a persona is a set of attributes that describe someone in terms of who he he is and a person is a being that has both types of sets. Using this we can conclude that Jesus isn't finite because while he has a set of finite attributes he also has a set of infinite attributes. Infinite plus finite still equals infinite that's basic math. the set of finite attributes is finite but the person who possesses it isn't
You're committing the monophysite heresy. The natures of Jesus cannot be added together. He has a finite nature AND an Infinite nature. They cannot be fully joined nor can they be fully separate.
@@judahkozel8270 again you fail to understand the person nature distinction the natures are separate sets that united in one person meaning that (while the individual elements of each set didn't mix with those of the other set) the sum of the elements of both sets as well as the elements of Christ's persona make up the person therefore we should expect a different answer to the question (is it finite?) If we are talking about the person because Christ has both finite and infinite attributes which would make him infinite. A good analogy is the relationship between body and spirit both are different things but they make up what you are they don't mix with each other but the sum of both makes up what you are. Any other view will lead to Nestorianism
@@kiroshakir7935 Again I fail? When did i fail before?
I think you made a good analogy with the differences between the body and soul. If I was to ask you "do you have eternal life?" You would answer yes, but it is my soul that is capable of eternal and not my phycle body. This is the same with jesus' nature.
I'll ask another question.
Q: Is jesus capable of sin?
A: NO. Jesus Human nature is capable of sin (This is why satan tried to tempt Jesus) and jesus' divine nature is not capable of sin. because Jesus' divine nature is incapable of sin it stop jesus from sin, jesus then doesn't sin.
It is still important to note that Jesus' human nature is capable of sin, nothing has change. The essences aren't communicated!
SO,
Q: Is jesus capable of the Infinte?
A: YES. While jesus' human nature isn't, jesus' divine nature is capable.
YOU ARE NOT TAKING A SUM NOR YOU ARE ADDING THEM TOGETHER. Although jesus is capable of infinte because the divine nature is capable. Yet still, the jesus' human nature is not. The natures may seem combine but they're not.
@@judahkozel8270 I wrote a longer reply but It ignored the main problem. The first question was is humanity capable of the infinite I don't think you're saying it is so my second question isn't (is Jesus capable of the infinite ?) my question is (is Jesus infinite?). I think he is infinite because Infinite plus finite is infinite do you understand the question now? I argue that you can't use Jesus as an example of finite doing infinite because he is infinite he has an infinite nature that does the infinite and finite and a finite nature that does only finite Jesus can't be both finite and infinite a part of Jesus is finite that is his human nature but as a person (as a whole) he is infinite if you disagree then answer the question is Jesus infinite without dividing him into human and divine tell me as a whole is he infinite Edit: no the soul isn't infinite Colossians 1:17
New International Version
17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. If god decides to erase your soul from existence then it will be erased our physical bodies will be purified after the resurrection and will enjoy the same thing read first Corinthians 15 other edit I would prefer to discuss this on discord
@@judahkozel8270 do you mind giving me your username on discord
Could God make 1+1=3?
Literally 1984
@@realshaiw well, God is always right
@@CliffCardi Wouldn't 1+1=3 deny God himself?
No, he cannot. He also can't make a square with 3 sides or an unliftible rock. These things are logically incoherent.
@@judahkozel8270 It's only a square because we call it a square.
Stand on top of the rock. Now lift it.
Amen❤❤🎉🎉😊😊