Executions in Oklahoma: Cruel and Unusual?
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2023
- After a judge ruled that Oklahoma could continue executions by lethal injection, despite allegations that the trio of drugs they use violates the 8th amendment, the state scheduled as many executions as they legally could. Now, the state is killing inmates at a rapid rate despite a history of botched executions. VICE News examines: Are these inmates suffering through cruel or unusual punishment?
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When it's someone hurting your loved ones, you want justice. When it's your loved one facing execution, you want mercy.
That’s deep
"But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also" (Matthew 5:38-39 RSV).
And the law is meant to keep the balance.
Mercy like their victims were given , fool.
Justice, or vengeance?
It's really really easy to solve this problem by administering proper drugs. Problem is I think drug companies objected to their anesthetic drugs being used for executions. I'm an anesthetist, midazolam is not right for execution cocktail, the state of Oklahoma is either cheap or stupid
I’ve heard (not sure if it’s true) that the drug they SHOULD be using is produced somewhere in the Netherlands and they stopped selling to the US because of how we use it in executions. That and/or…..the state is cheap.
Just give them a mega dose of fentanyl or heroin.
Let them suffer
The fact that pharmaceutical companies refuse to sell the U.S. the drugs because they are being used to execute people speaks volumes. The fact that the U.S. just continues to execute people, even when they no longer have access to the proper drugs required, also speaks volumes.
Ummmm, it's really REALLY easy to not end up on death row in the first place. The perpetrators didn't care about their victims, they don't deserve to be cared about.
I just find it so difficult to offer humanity to someone who had no problem ignoring someone else’s humanity so frivolously. I laugh at the idea that a violent offender will complain about human rights abuses, absolutely astonishes me.
Fr
Two wrongs don't make a right.
@@user-sf7kl9uh7k nah but it sure makes it a whole lot more peaceful.
@@seanbutler8818 That literally makes no sense.
@@user-sf7kl9uh7k does it? Does it “literally”? Please tell me more.
I'm opposed to the death penalty, but why wouldn't they just use a firing squad? Seems cheaper, less complicated, and far less painful.
sorry what
Ok but lets not forget the many death row inmates that were wrongfully convicted. There are some that got found innocent after their death or are clearly not guilty. Those are the ones my heart breaks most for.
so you have an issue with dodgy cops, not the death sentence..
Yes absolutely, don't read my comment like that. I was just stating if you're 100% sure that "said" person has done the crime, then I'm for it. However if there is any shadow of doubt... Then obviously not.
@@bobfromaccounting93 I wonder how many people are innocent now a days with DNA and all. I was under the impression your guilt has to be above and beyond obvious for death row.
@@bobfromaccounting93 I agree
@@bobfromaccounting93 Fact.
So the murderer kills an old couple probably very painfully but he doesn't want to die painfully? How ironic
I mean, it falls under cruel and unusual punishment.
it is not the state’s place to torture or punish people
Here's the kicker. Let's forget about him for a sec. Imagine the fear and pain his victims went through. For no reason.
@brandon johnson Thank you Brandon, why people pity these monsters I will Never understand, they are on Death Row for murdering people and the punishment fits the crime, how lucky they are to still live and breath 30/40 years after murdering That person, just to put the victims family thru unecessary distress, unfair
@@debbieangel9376 and the crazy part is they want mercy. We have no room for evil like that in this world.
@@brandonjohnson1869 Yeah but that's bc they sit way too long on Death Row eventually they begin to feel sorry for themselves then hire those stupid lawyers to rock the boat and get them a stay of execution, you right they are bloody evil oxygen thieves
@debbino eangel9376 no its not ok no matter what they did
@@debbieangel9376There are innocent people on death row
Imagine the grimacing of the elderly couples last minutes..They got a two second mention in this production..Go JJ.
well everyone knows that being murdered is bad and painful. that’s not news. it’s different when the government does it
Couldn't help but notice that State Rep did not answer the question. Really danced around that one.
Have you ever seen a politician giving a straight answer to a question? I haven't.
That state rep was unhinged. Definitely not the type of person that I think should be in a position of power. Gave me the chills 😬
Wow....this is such a controversial topic. I'm not sure to be completely honest that if somebody took away someone I loved that I would care if they felt pain. I think that's human nature. The crimes that these people commit are sometimes horrifying. They submit their victims to horrific pain and agony and then ask for mercy when it comes back to haunt them. I don't know...just being honest. If I was the victims family I'm not sure that I would care.
well victims families don’t get to decide. Society gets to decide
I don’t understand why he expects mercy when he showed absolutely none to this innocent elderly couple while he murdered them. But now he wants to talk about “indignation”? He has more to worry about when he meets his maker I think.
Exactly, how painful was the death his victims experienced and how long did it take for them to expire?
These criminals want to do whatever they want and then expect a nice gentle dream before they experience a painless death. It just doesn’t feel rite to afford murderers a painless death. Why should they not experience the worst of all pain before they expire?
I rolled my eyes so hard when he asked where their empathy was
@@johnnyboy8603 same, I nearly fell off my chair
If people want to cry about people suffering I know of two ways that would ensure a painless death! Fentanyl overdoses happen everyday and is extremely easy, 1 drug not 3! Or hypoxia which is a lack of oxygen which isn’t painful (BBC did a documentary on this exact way) and both of these ways are far easier and are definitely painless!
@@apemancommeth8087 I combo of oxygen and nitrous with decreased oxygen over time is probably the best bet. You wouldn't even feel like you are choking
I worked as an investigator on death penalty cases for many, many years. Of all the cases I worked on I believe only two of my clients were innocent. Those two clients ended up going home. I believe my other clients were guilty and those clients either went to trial or pled to a lesser sentence. Those who went to trial received a death sentence and have lost on every stage of their appeal bc they they are guilty. Do innocent people get convicted? Yes, but that is why we have the appellate process so the case can be reviewed over and over by multiple lawyers and by multiple judges in multiple courts. Once a case gets to an execution date after 20 plus years of appeals, I am comfortable believing that this person has been proven guilty. Instead of people screaming in protest to not execute someone, or screaming how flawed the legal system is, they should be putting their energy into changing the laws. The laws will not be changed by you standing in protest or holding a candle at a vigil. The laws can be changed by putting that same energy into contacting your lawmakers, holding them accountable, and electing officials who do not support the death penalty. No one can hear you when all you do is scream.
YES, YES… this YES!
You did fictional things?
@@bunk95 do you have proof that it’s fictional?
@@seanbutler8818 that the death penalty is fictional? Proof or a marketable form of proof?
@@bunk95 are you okay man?
I don’t take pleasure in knowing they could suffer. That being said, I’m not terribly remorseful either. It’s just strange, someone who felt perfectly entitled to inflict suffering on to others and ultimately take their life talking about how they’re being treated unfairly. But still, if we see fit to inflict unchecked pain onto someone because we can, where is the line between justice and vengeance drawn? What does that make us in turn? Taking a life out of anger or malice is exactly what the person on the table did. That anger and carelessness is how we end up killing innocent people on accident, and it’d just be more murder at that point.
executing someone is to prevent it from happening again and tax payers not having to pay for a lifetime in prison. its not revenge. you obviously have not know someone that was murdered in cold blood. we are not talking gang shootings, we are talking the worst of the worst on earth. they stay in prison for life and they can still hurt a guard or a doctor during a checkup or whatever. you dont get the death penalty unless you are pure evil.
@@spenyspen18 I’m not opposed to the death penalty. I’m opposed to taking it upon oneself to make that persons death cruel and unusual. I’m concerned with people not properly acknowledging how much power we assume by taking someone’s life in what’s considered a lawful way at all, and how that can go wrong if abused.
If I claim to be a paragon, how does doing what my enemies do make me any different? I can claim I do it for a good cause on behalf of the suffered, but how do I know my enemies didn't do it for their suffered? Or if I do what my enemy does, why are they my enemy?
@@spenyspen18 Death Penalty costs around 1.25 million dollars. Lifetime in prison costs 740,000 dollars as a median average. So the financial logic doesn't add up.
@@Zeruel132 And if you wanted to, you could make the death penalty cheap. But if you did that, it would mean so many more innocent people would die. What do you guys think makes it cost so much? The drugs? No, it takes hours and hours of court deliberation to make sure that the person the state is going to kill is actually guilty. Making it so it was cheaper would mean so many more false positives it would effectively amount to state genocide.
If only the victims were as comfortable as these monsters did while they were dying
Yeah, we’ll show him what a monster he is by acting like him, right?
@@james-jo5ju right you are human rights only for people who act human.
@@james-jo5ju Yes. If that pain blossoms even a shed of empathy in them to understand what they've done, a thousand times yes. Death penalty isn't for their benefit. It's for ours.
@@Dazen101 I guess you guys don’t like the constitution
@@Dazen101 The study, published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences determined that at least 4% of people on death penalty/death row were and are likely innocent. The death penalty absolutely is not for your benefit or your entertainment or amusement or your revenge
So ironic how these people want empathy after they brutally murder people.
to the people who are heartless and think they deserve pain, think about the people who are innocent and have to go through this.
Think about the pain that guilty caused.
@@thetexican3468right but what does killing people achieve ?
@@NithinJune it’s Justice. Why give a killer three meals a day, clean water, medical treatment for the rest of their natural life? If they did something to land themself there why should my tax dollars go to their up keep? They didn’t think about the victim they brutally killed, so why think about them?
@@thetexican3468 it’s part of being in a society, that’s just how it works. you could use the same logic to justify killing homeless people on the street. or denying disabled people healthcare
I wonder how that old couple felt? Choices put you where you are, that goes for everyone
The only reason we can in good conscience call ourselves civilized is because we are a society of laws which explicitly prevent society itself from committing the types of crimes it punishes. I don't care if you've murdered half the country. If we are to call ourselves civilized our punishment needs to rise above mere eye-for-an-eye. Regardless of people's stance on the death penalty, we have to at least be able to agree that any execution carried out by the state, mind you in our names, be not in any way shape or form associated with what is unquestionably needless pain and torture. If we do not abide by that basic principle, then we are no better than the criminals themselves and the entire principle of the death penalty is a crime against humanity.
The reason we shouldn't set that standard is a simple one: to prove that we are better than them. If our society proves itself to operate on such barbarous principles, then by what moral higher ground can we hold others to out standard of civilization? We'd be no better than the "shithole" countries we rail against in our politics.
@@jakobsievers "I don't care if you've murdered half the country" I think you need to be in the shoes of those who have lost loved ones to violent to have a say. Its crazy how you talk FOR those people.
@@jakobsievers So you’re defending criminals?
@@shnow5741He’s what you call a criminal apologist.
Prolly a criminal himself by the way he’s talking.
if nothing else, i really like how that guy called his horses "critters"
I thought that was so cute!
@@PerpetuallyAnnoyed are you annoyed right now?
@@theonlythingihavetosayis9333 Not yet, but the day is young
I wonder if Scott cared about the cruel and unusual nature of his actions when he broke into the elderly couple's home, shot Patsy, and then beat AJ to death all so that he could stalk his ex-girlfriend and later attack her child and her mother. I'm not empathetic that this man had to face the consequences of his evil actions.
When talking about cruel and unusual punishments I think there is one horrible punishment that is used much more frequently and with far wider reaching consequences = solitary confinement. That is incredibly cruel and mentally damaging with potential long lasting effects.
@gretelh3144 - I agree strangely enough I was watching a documentary on ADX Florence in Colorado USA and prisoners there are kept in on their own in a white small cell and for 1 hour a day they can go outside where all they can see is the sky because basically they just walk in circles in small empty swimming pool. So I thought if that was me and I'd have to spend the rest of my life like that then I welcome the needle! 🇬🇧
Yk a kitchen knife is basically free just keep using it, the needle costs $1200. Obviously I dont really care about the prisoner I care about them taking more then is needed. A chair is needed a humane chair isn't unless it can beat free. That being said SC is somehow still cruel and unusual to me and it doesn't really help them not commit crimes so now it feels like we're hurting them for fun, not just bc it's cheaper and easier. It really does confuse me why we go out of our way to hurt them for no reason at all
Nah keep the death penalty In all states to scare the crinmials to not commit crimes it's simple yet people are sensitive twats
@@rosstacoman5910 - Hi Ross. I previously considered the cost benefits of the using the death penalty. I can get a bit frustrated over all the $ taxpayers shell out to house criminals and so I thought that was a positive to use the death penalty for seriously horrific violent acts. However, after spending a little time looking into the costs, I learned how much more expensive it is to use the death penalty vs. housing a prisoner for life. The death penalty comes with lots of legalities like appeals ( equals = lawyers, judges, courtroom employees, secure transportation to and from the court) as well as the cost of housing the inmate on death row. These and other related costs far exceed prison for life. Surprised me but makes sense. So no financial benefit for the death penalty.
I agree it's very cruel, but the people at ADX.....I don't care.
Beheading is ironically the most certain and humane way to kill someone if you're okay with the undignified manner of it. The shock of so many nerves in the upper spine severing sets you unconscious instantly. Also pretty cheap.
Fr, should be a guillotine that's what I asked for, that or shooting me like a 1,000 round blast from a minigun would be nice.
That's actually not true. It's been proven that a decapitated head via guillotine will maintain consciousness for up to two minutes. This is the main reason they stopped using it as a method of execution. A guy named Joe Scott (whose channel is one of the best on RUclips) did a video on this very subject. I highly recommend you look up his channel. He's not only informative but he's hilariously funny to boot. The video he did on coke in soft drinks is a riot.
@@221BBakerStreet, I've heard those are convulsions like with headless chickens and fish.
@@benderisgreat95able You heard wrong I'm afraid. Watch Joe Scott. He'll explain everything.
Lol
Did they think of the pain they put their victims thru, along with the victims' families and loved ones? Gee, lots all have a vigil for these ruthless criminals.
@@FunnyFawkesGuy There's nothing subhuman about them. They are equally as human as we are. You make the correct distinguishment by saying we know better than them, and this is true. Our morality, or at least our active choice to abide by this morality, is what make us better. But we're made of the same schematic, we're all human. It's important to remember that the capacity to do evil is in all of us.
@@zrize101 Well said. Though I would argue that while the capacity to enact evil resides in all of us, it is our willingness to act on that impulse that separates us.
Well said Earl.
ah, you also sound like you think the constitution is a valuable document. would that be a fair statement?
@@pukeyloww5279 Imagine being obsessed with the constitution…
Some of these people on death row have some nerve considering they never awarded the people they killed a dignified painless death /murder 🤷🏾♀️
Right, the whole idea that we don't focus on making the death penalty cheap and efficient is insane
_some_ people are innocent though
When that representative asked “but really what is pain?” , I thought of a villain. Pain is pain no matter how you choose to define it. Once you feel pain it’s just pain. Seek justice for the victims, but why look for revenge and murder ourselves. We are suppose to be the “better” people in these situations
I wonder if their *victims died a quick and painless death*
_(While we shed tears for the murderer)_
Are we now supposed to worry about the comfort of a man that killed two elderly people unmercifully.
You sound like you want to live in a third world country
I hear you but that's not really the point. 8th amendment and all.....
Yes, it's called living in a modern civilized world. Like the warden in this video said, the fact that you're losing your life is the punishment.
If you're a normal, rational human being with a modicum of empathy, then the answer is... yes. If you knowingly allow the suffering of the inmate during execution, you're no better than the person being executed. The death penalty is nothing but state sanctioned murder in my opinion and should be abolished. Just like it's been in almost all developed countries. Once again, the United States is more than happy to show the rest of the world just how depraved it can be.
He wasn't sentenced to torture he was sentenced to death.
Its kind of hard to feel bad sometimes for death row inmates
@xenomorph for what, not being empathetic of people who have brutally raped, murdered, and done horrible things worthy enough to warrant a death sentence, and feel pain during? i can't say i feel for them either.
@@ledzeppelin1023 If I lived almost my entire life in a cell and then having your life taken away, I'd like it to be painless. I guess it really depends on what kind of crime the person committed.
@@natas74d7 they only execute the people who did something really screwed up
I don't have any problems with feeling bad for these people, even though they have done horrible things, some of them are even innocent who have been wrongly convicted.
For me it's not justice to torture a human being at their execution, it should be done in a quick and painless way. Having people suffer just because, makes monsters out of all of us.
you forget how many innocent people you have incarcerated and execute on a regular basis
What they did to their victims was "cruel and unusual" so too bad so sad.
Exactly!
Exactly, people forget about the victims. I think that they're getting off easy than their victims did.
There's a reason why cruel punishment is outlawed by the constitution
@@xyphoon5013 cruel and unusual punishment would be getting waterboarded for stealing a snickers bar. this guy murdered an elderly couple and therefore he gets executed. What part is cruel and unusual relative to the atrocious crime he committed?
@@idhatemet00 No? You're really claiming you know Law better than people studying it? Cruel and unusual punishment regard punishment against ANY kind of crime.
I’m sure they’re going through nothing as bad as their victims did! They should be happy they got several more years of life.
Good point, i bet the victims deaths weren't painless. I have 0 sympathy for them.
So govt should reduce itself to behaving like a criminal murderer...
Unchecked, the death chamber would become a torture chamber... the more ruthless the crime, the more cruel the torture.
That lust for a brutal death is not different than the that of a brutal murderer.
The sentence is death, not torture. If the state can't obtain the proper drugs to carry out the sentence, then it should find other means.
You dont know, you assume.. and if later years have shown us anything, it's how unreliable & unjust your system is.. you cant be sure you have the right person for the crime in prison. Bcs everything is faulty from police interrigations - using covercive tactics, police being allowed to lie just to name a few..
You actually use os lie detectors who's proven time & time again to be unreliable!
And IF it ever goes to court, you use heaps of psuedoscientific BS to prove someones guilt.
Then there is this whole insane thing were media is allowed to out a person as a suspect with full name & pictures of the suspect. Then the public makes up their mind based on that - and preassure on the police & everyone who's job it is to investigate increases heavily. And that makes them bias.
When that happens it's not about finding the right person, the one who actually did it. It's now about finding someone to blame & then the s.c "evidence" will be presented in a way that makes this person look guilty, no matter the truth. When it's presented in court it's done in a way to stir up emotions in the jury. Soo they are now bias aswell..
And it's half impossible to get a new trail if convicted. No matter what we learn in later years about how faulty the process was or how unreliable the policeinvestigation had been..
It's truly disturbing that you have death scentences when your s.c justice system is SO unreliable from start to finnish..
The victims loved ones should be taken in consideration, but what they say about a persons guilt or innocence MUST be taken with a grain of salt. Bcs they WILL mix up their pain in it & they often decide that the first suspect in a case (who's outside the nearest family) is the guilty one. And they often act out of sorrow - wanting revenge, not justice.. They think they will feel better & can make the days easier, if they have somone to blame, once someone is convicted..
@@rurome2151 when i think of the US justice system, it's no different from the ones in places like china.. old centry, mob justice, scapegoat, nightmareish, biased are worlds that comes to mind straight away.
Where I live it's a completely different process..
Police, not even undercover - can never ask you to commit a crime. The state isn't allowed to make you do a crime & then convict you for it in any way. Police arent allowed to lie to a suspect that would be considered a HUGE misstep, professional missconduct and it would destroy any legal process bcs it takes away all validity in the investigation, statements & confessions.
The interrigation is done completely different. where they cant corner you & pester you for hours, days on end & drain you so you are to tired to think. Bcs we KNOW it's not effective of you want the truth..
Sarcasm can't be used as confessions..
Witnesses arent seen as 100% reliable, they will be a complement to other evidence & any history between witness - victim - perp are taken into considiration. It's not enough to convict someone only based on witnesses bcs WE KNOW peoples memories arent reliable & that people are bias..
You have to have more real, proof..
Things like lie detectors, bitemark analysis - and other similar psuedoscience is NEVER used, bcs again WE KNOW they arent reliable. Experts are rarely used in the same way as the US to convince the jury, bcs you cand find s.c experts to confirm both sides.
Media can't out a suspect, only omce someone is convicted & it has to be considered to be of use to peopld to know..
So the suspects Identety is kept from the public until the person is convicted, so innocent peoples lifes arent ruined bcs of it..
You can always appeal & it's 99% taken up atleast once in higher court. If new evidence comes along after the punishment goes into effect, there HAS to be a retrail this is not included as a demand to appeal at first, you can always appeal that one time no matter what.
If you cant pay for your lawyer, one will be provided BUT you can still get somone else if you like & it's still paid for - by the state or by the losing party in the trail.. so it's up to the lawyer to accept your case.. you arent stuck with the one you get first. And you can ask to change lawyers anytime in the process..
Scentences arent as long, it's seen as rehabilitation, NOT to make someone suffer bcs of a crime, BCS WE KNOW that has been proven to have the opposite effect..
YES we actually look at facts. What does the unbias research really tell us. Evidence based proven techniques & FACTS goes first. Thats why we dont use lie detectors ,peoples memories & things like bite mark analysis as reliable in court..
The max, life - is 21y in prison were the conditions are proper, not 3rd world style like in the US. The punishment is in the remowal from normal society...
One exeption, if you are convicted to phsyciatric care with special sertain criteria that has to be met for the person to considered rehabilitated.. and thats based on the individual.. every suspect goes trough mental avaluation before trail & if it comes ou the person suffered psychosis or similar states AT THE MOMENT they commited the crime, they are deemed uncapable to be kept resbonsible for their actions, bcs desorted thinking, hallucinations etc. = the scentence will be changed automatically to care, not prison. Ofc we have special institutions for that. They are not out in the general publict if not granted temporary leave from a facility.
To me the US system is more of an anger & emotionfueled fars, than any evidencebased proper logical conduct. Ofc victims feelings & suffering are considered in the scentencing of someone, but it's not allowed to be fueling the whole argument of someones guilt or innocence..
And there is a lot more of differences. But this is what comes to mind in the first seconds..
Exactly
Humans are so mean. All it takes is nitrogen gas. Go to sleep and don't wake up.
Start with yourself
@@firstlast8258 As masterful a quip as only the smartest 5 year old could muster. Bravo.
I firing squad is probably the closest you get to a painless death. Its so instantaneous that they are gone before they have time to feel pain.
In the Netherlands, where euthanasia is legal, the doctor gets a prescription from the pharmacy and brings it to to patient. Patient drinks it, falls asleep and dies within a few minutes with their family around them. Why is America having such a problem executing prisoners?
I'm not sure I agree with capital punishment, but if we're going to do it, why not just give people an opiate overdose?
Drugs are bad mkay
They used fentanyl recently in one state according to one article I read, I'd have to look it up to remember the details though
@@joshuahernandez2566 they used it in several states for a while. they may have stopped due to the stigma associated with the opioid epidemic
Probably because the inmates would enjoy it.
you dont always die from an overdose
7:10 I like how the Ten Commandments thing is so ironic, given that he is a "very strong supporter" of the death penalty and yet the 6th commandment says "thou shalt not kill"
No, “רָצַח” the word used in Exodus 20:13 for the 6th commandment, always means to murder in every use in the Hebrew bible. It never means to kill in a more general sense. In fact, numerous biblical passages prescribed death as the punishment for murder, so it is clear the authors of the Hebrew bible did not consider all killing to be murder.
@@thebyzantinescotist7081 this makes sense, David killed big man with stone ej
This is kinda when you have a very basic knowledge of biblical history.
@@thebyzantinescotist7081do you think that guy knows hebrew 😂
I find it highly insulting to my dignity and intelligence that we can put down dogs and cats humanely but we can not put down a human humanely .
@slaythykings At the point we don't talk seriously about fanciful mythology and ludicrous claims? This is the real world, not the supernatural.
@slaythykings Show me empiricism that such a thing exists, otherwise keep it out of actual discussions about serious matters. Are we to be concerned about Phlogiston or the concerns of Zeus as well?
Believe whatever you do (not what you wish because obviously belief in something being reality or not is not a choice) but don't bring it up in regards to serious matters. Just because you believe these things doesn't mean anyone should humour your suggestion. It is akin to labelling someone a witch as reasoning for behaviour.
It is beyond unhelpful to the point it destroys decent discourse on the issue- it's just crass "Other-ing" of human beings to make a cut and dry decision about them easier. This is not an easy discussion, don't pretend it is so with silly claims of the supernatural.
@slaythykings The irony of invoking Jesus as an argument for not caring about fellow humans because they committed crimes.
Is it supposed to be painless?
Yes, yes it is. Otherwise its called state sanctioned torture. You know, the thing the west constantly complains about when it comes to dictatorships.
A doctor has to administer the meds.
Doctors can’t cause pain.
The punishment is death, not torture, so yes.
@@grapesurgeon It's rather jarring. I swear many would throw rotten vegetables if they could. It seems in many ways we are not far past the dark ages.
Whether you are for or against capital punishment, carrying out a painful and tortuous execution is not justice, it’s vengeance; and that is a very slippery slope.
Show them the same amount of humanity they showed the people they killed.
how tf do you do that
I think we should ask the victim's families if this is a worthwhile endeavor.
YES! by all means ask them how they'd feel if the person they just spectated whilst been tortured to death, was later vindicated after the facts----we are humans, the police and the justice system are humans and we have a history choke-full of bias, corruption, injustice and pure racist and bigoted malice. Humanity is untrustworthy at best...
No, we shouldn't just follow due process according to the law.
I agree. Ask the victims family. Not everyone wants a killer to be killed, it doesn't bring back the loved one.
Sometimes the victims family openly forgives the killer & there is healing for those involved
That is wrong as there would be bias therefore an unfair trial which would be not in accordance with US Constitutional law
@@twiztidyournutzwhy should they have a say
Part of me feels like they deserve it but then you also have so many people that are wrongly convicted so having a death penalty is just not right.
Exactly, the youngest person that was executed (a 14 year old boy) was found not guilty years later
Don't forget about the 8th amendment of the constitution. I think a painful death would go against that
Yup, that's the problem. If they could ensure only actually-guilty people are convicted, and reserve this for only the absolute worst, then society wouldn't even have a problem with them suffering on their way out (well, except bleeding-heart religious zealots who claim to be pro-life except for pregnant women and doctors and LGBT people whom they'll happily kill ). The problem is the system is so corrupt and incompetent, lots of innocents are convicted.
@@dontaskmewhy1799you are talking about a crime that’s about mainly racism and a white girl who could still be charged and won’t be because they want her to watch her grandkids grow up when in fact she should also get the death penalty
Surely it can be a penalty restricted to cases that meet strict evidence criteria for guilty verdicts?
True justice would be subjecting these monsters to the same manner of death they inflicted on their victims.
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. There's no doubt that these people are bad. What makes us good, and them bad, is a question of morality. So if you cast aside your morality for your own pleasure, you become just like them.
@@zrize101 its not an eye for an eye. we know they are guilty, and they deserve to be punished. NOT punishing these vicious savages would be immoral.
@@zrize101Cry more.
thats just not how western society works
@@zrize101 Phrases like that are catchy, but never grounded in reality. Kind of like the "violence never solves anything" philosophy. Actually it does, just ask the leaders of Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany what they think. Oh wait, you can't because violence was used to beat them into submission. It's intellectual, virtuous and even religious to think in that manner...it just does not work out in the real world.
If someone killed my loved one, I would feel closure if the judge handed out a 25-year prison sentence to the murderer.
The man we're supposed to feel bad for here said "Stubborn as an Army mule. Why was he being so stubborn?” of one of his two elderly victims for daring to fight back while he was being bludgeoned to death. Pissed at the still breathing husband, he then placed the wife's lifeless body (who he had shot from behind) on top of him, as a "punishment". Immediately after this he went on to his ex-girlfriend's house, beat her grandmother and shot her 16 years old son (both luckily survived). He went on to kidnap a family of three at gun point and was on the run for a month before getting caught.
Unsurprisingly, the suffering of his victims don't matter to the liberals at Vice.
yeah who cares about the victims. poor death row inmates though they might find execution a bit uncomfortable. so tragic!!!
obviously sarcasm
@@doa_form His monsterous acts sent him to his grave and it was liberal activists who pressured the pharma companies that produce the cocktail of drugs they use to use so that it isn't used in executions. And now his apologists cry about his discomfort. Funny that.
This needs to be top comment.
I can’t believe it matters this much how the prisoner is put to sleep.
Bullet? Too unethical. Lethal injection? Too painful.
The only legitimate argument against capital punishment is that an innocent person could be executed. I’m not swayed by any of the nonsense about whether it’s humane or not…but the fact that an innocent person could potentially be executed should give even its most ardent supporters a reason to pause and think
That's just it, if the system weren't so corrupt and incompetent that leads to many innocent people being convicted and many guilty people going free, most of society wouldn't have an issue with capital-punishment, and many would even be okay with them suffering on the way out à la _Last House on the Left,_ especially if capital-punishment were reserved for only the worst of the worst that can't be rehabilitate and offer nothing but harm to the world.
I'd rather be wrongfully executed than wrongfully sentenced decades of imprisonment for something I whole heartedly know I did not commit
Prison for profit needs to stop
Exactly!
If DNA evidence is enough to see an innocent person set free, surely that same logic dictates that DNA evidence is proof of guilt and an eventual execution?
Yes?
No?
It makes sense to me.
The killer who are actually guilty didn't care at all if their victim or victims didn't pains or the pain that the victim's families have to go through even their own families.
An eye for an eye will only end up making the whole world blind
Man is talking about "indignant" as if he was sentenced for speeding 🤣
Really fascinates me when people focus on whether or not the method of administering a death sentence is painful or not and brush aside the fact that the person is going to die.
Lol
They're expected to die, but some don't.
Then does it bother you how an animal is put down by a vet?
@@user-lt5zf4xh7d just that its fast
@@user-lt5zf4xh7d An animal euthenised by a veterinarian is done using the correct drugs by a person trained in their administration.
Far too many people feel sympathy for criminals, not enough for their victims.
Muh victimhood
Do you record all your interviews with these people who care more about perpetrators of crime than the victims? I'd love to check them out.
Far too many people are ok with state sanctioned torture.
Seems to me what's happening is like in surgery u hear those stories where they think the person is under but he really isn't and feels everything that's probably whats happening here and if that's the case it ain't right. I am all for the death penalty but that is torture and shouldn't be done like that
Cruel and unusual ?? Yeah, just like the atrocious rapes and/or murders these rats committed.
What about the painful death of their victims?😤
2 wrongs don’t make a right
This isn't an error, cruelty is the intended result.
And who would object? Some dont deserve a quick death
@@malx16 Vice and the left.
@@malx16 Those that know the 8th amendment to the constitution, and those that don't think what subjective opinions about what others "deserved" is a basis for justice.
@@MrSubsound90 exactly. Is slow and painful death is a violation of the 8th amendment and is against what this country is all about. America is the place where criminals are (supposed to be) treated fairly regardless of the accusations. If we choose to use the death penalty which in itself is unconstitutional them we would have to use firing squad or another quick method
Yall give the state too much credit. More likely than not they are just incompetent
I always thought our use of lethal injection was just a way to grandstand and portray ourselves as being more humane while still using the death penalty; despite the fact that we ban all of the methods that are actually effective like firing squad, hanging, or even the guillotine: which was literally invented to make execution quick and painless. The only reason we don’t use these methods is because they look unpleasant; even though they all kill instantly. This is compared to literally sitting in a gas chamber, or being strapped to a bed and pricked full of needless; which looks fairly painless to the average citizen, but is incredibly painful compared to the other three I mentioned. If we actually cared about executions being humane we would use the most effective options and stop choosing based on how it looks.
Not exactly. For hanging you have to get the drop distance just right or else they can suffer for up to 15 minutes while they suffocate.
@@abcdcba4405 I get that, but 90% of the time we can control that variable and make it effective, while a lethal injection can almost always be a shot in the dark on how it will go.
Or how about, we don't have death row at all considering the disturbing rate of innocents who die.
We shouldn't execute at all. If killing is wrong then it's wrong for the government to do so.
@@allseeingirene how about not do that crime sorry I’ve done prison time you do stupid things you win stupid prizes
This man killed an elderly couple who lived across the street from a girl he was stalking. And we want to be concerned about his comfort while his punishment is being carried out?
It doesn't matter, they are going better than what they did to their victims period.
Well and what about false convictions? There where many of them in the past. Also with carried out death penalties.
Also to be needlessly cruel is just inhumane no matter what.
As intelligent, modern human beings we should be better than this!
@@GermanMythbuster
They shouldn’t have committed crimes then.
@@henrylivingstone2971 you cannot read!
The ignorance of this comment cannot be phrased.
@@daqne138
And what makes you think that exactly?
*Worlds smallest violin playing*
How are people even arguing this? If someone is 100% guilty of some horrific crimes they deserve to be punished be it in this way or another. Think of the poor victims, victims family and friends.
Yes! I cannot believe there are people out there defending the inmates. What a world we live in
How do you know someone’s 100% guilty? Without doubt? What gives a human to take the life of another, even if they did wrong? What does that make you? Would you do it yourself?
People are "arguing this" because Rule of Law exists for a reason, the Constitution outlaws cruel punishment for a reason, life isn't the black and white your fairy tales make it out to be.
Just because someone is a criminal does not mean they aren't human. All humans deserve basic human rights. Also the american justice system is so broken that a vast amount of inmates are not actually guilty.
@@Tom-kc4ufnobody on death row is innocent, even if they didn't do the specific crime they were involved enough to be charged
They deserve it
How much pain did the couple feel plus the relatives who have to live with it
exactly what i said like the dude murdered a elderly couple now he wants sympathy like wtf??😂😂
Yeah fu ck them
Justice is a fine line. A lot of people who receive the death penalty are guilty. Why have them suffer too?
Easier death than the way most of them murdered their victims
I could care less if the murderer is “remorseful for his crimes” I could also care less if they suffer during the execution. If they had a choice to choose wether they die by execution or die in the exact manner they murdered their victims. They wouldn’t be choosing the latter of the 2 I can assure you that. They wouldn’t be complaining about being strapped down, being jabbed by a needle, wearing a diaper, etc. Think about that for a second, idk anyone who would choose to be executed in the same manner they took their victims life(lives) bc they would know just how much suffering that would entail!
Exactly
That's all nice but a complete nightmare if the person on death row is innocent.
@@slothboi7131 easy way to fix that. Death row to people who are 100% guilty
@@diobrando5993 I'm pretty sure thats what the purpose of giving them a trial in first place is for. And innocent people slip through the cracks there
You’ve got to be kidding me. An inmate on death row wants sympathy after the cruel and unusual punishment to their victims. F them
If we are putting someone to death doesn’t that mean they did something horrendous? So why are we so damn concerned if they suffer? You can be damn sure their victims suffered far more than they ever will.
I don't think you can get an execution without pain..✍🏽
The French had it
All the more reason to abolish it.
@@balghar493 Screw painless. It's been proven that a decapitated head via guillotine will maintain consciousness for up to two minutes. I personally couldn't imagine anything worse. Hence the reason it's no longer used as a method of execution.
@@221BBakerStreet it is still used lol skill issue for the american
@@221BBakerStreet but more seriously once your spine is cut you lost conscientiousness. the victim wont feel much other than a breeze on their neck.
Before Lithuania abolished Death Penalty because it broke constution that State can't kill its own citizens, they were shot twice with a bullet to the back of the head in undisclosed location without any issues except probably anxiety that the condemned felt. The method was also cheap, quick and efficient and there weren't decades long appeals like in USA were some in death row just does from natural cause. But right now in Europe every country 49 in total ( except Belarus ) abolished death penalty some even couple centuries ago, also you can't join EU if you don't abolish it, because its simply against EU and UN human rights. And there shouldn't be "eye for and eye" type of justice because that will make whole world blind + plenty of Americans who received death penalty are latter exonerated and some unfortunately killed.
The death penalty has no place in a civilized society.
It’s hypocritical to tell someone murder is illegal and wrong and then murder them as punishment 😅😅
Now you’ve become the very thing you condemned.
Cry me a river. I bet the elderly couple felt pain.
You don't actually give a damn about human life. You just care about punishment.
@@dr-tse but... the killer violated the couples basic human right.... right? Sooooo... yeah... this debate can just go in circles honestly
@Enoch Tse the constitution is a load of crap to me considering how it is written to continue the oppression of anyone not white... I guess if you're white that worthless piece of paper actually MEANS something to you LMAO
@@dr-tse nothing but my honesty annnnd the fact don't violently murder people lol
Does it matter given the reason why they find themselves in that position? Seriously, just stop and try to imagine the terror, pain and utter despair their victims felt prior to their own murders…now tell me how much less their lives matter and the pain they felt at the time of death, than that of their murderers!! ‘Severe pain, needless suffering and a painful death’ sounds about like the sentence they themselves handed out to the innocent victims!
Wow, talk about miss the point. What about it being unconstitutional do you not get? I hope you don't claim to be a christian because Romans 12;19-21 clearly states:
*Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. 20Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. 21Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good*
@@annakeye
Separation of church and state.
@@henrylivingstone2971 Except when it suits them. One nation under god, and all that bollocks.
I believe the reason we try to make lethal injection as painless and humane as possible, even when the inmate may not have given their victims that courtesy, is because we are not like them. They may have caused pain and suffering upon someone else willfully and without remorse, but we should not strive to stoop to that level.
Man he killed that eldery couple?? Wow…I can’t feel bad for him lol
You're not supposed to feel bad for him. You're just supposed to be better than him.
@@zrize101 these leftists do feel bad for these vicious murderers. in their perfect utopia these murderers wouldnt even be in prison, they would be "rehabilitated" and sent back out into society. THAT is inhumane. It is inhumane to give these murderers the luxury of being rehabilitated.
@@zrize101And you’re not suppose to tell him how to act…
I feel bad that he wasn't tortured enough
That’s the devil he feeling 😂 he half way to him
Where was HIS empathy when he murdered an elderly couple. His death was far too easy.
Why not just use fentanyl??
Because that’s too good a death for them!! Honestly I’d argue that’s the best way possible to die, locked up or in the free world! No Pain, no suffering, no having to be scared. If I have a choice that’s how I’d prefer to go whenever my time comes!!. Just drifting off to sleep. Too bad their victims didn’t get such a nice death. Their punishment should absolutely fit their crime. These dudes have it wayyy to good in this country… smh
Drugs are bad mkay
Whoever started that too cruel and inhuman rumor I disagree with that.
Injections into the doll is the dumbest thing I’ve seen in some time
Death is really scary but being sentenced to death means you did something that made a jury and a judge belive you should not be kept alive any longer .
Not always the case. Please go do the research. There are people who proved their innocence AFTER a judge/jury sentenced them to death thanks to The Innocence Project and/or other nonprofit organizations.
Sure like judges and juries are infallible.. 🙃🙃
With all due respect to those that are in these situations, but isn’t there a sure way to execute a person painlessly? Like putting them to sleep then having an industrial type machine ram a very large rod (4” diameter) through their head at a ridiculously high speed? I know id rather go this way then being injected.
I was literally thinking the exact same thing. Or alternately a bolt gun to the back of the neck like with cattle.
Just use a bullet ffs
Death by firing squad is less painful but it’s still culturally seen as barbaric.
> an industrial type machine ram a very large rod (4” diameter) through their head at a ridiculously high speed
You mean like a bullet? Gee, if only someone could invent such a thing… 🤔
Leatherface did it with a sledge. Texas might go for this method. Write Greg Abbott. He can set it up.
Imagine living in a world where murders are complaining how they die 😅😅😅
This is one topic that does not keep me up at night, a better topic would be why does it take so long for the sentence to be carried out?
I can answer that. Lawyers and Judges are still in contact and the police need solid 100% evidence. they are still investigating the crime even from 20 years ago.
You can't just kill a person based on what evidence you THINK you have. There have been cases of people being executed and later found not guilty. It at least gives SOME time for them to see if there maybe was someone else at fault, not that I think they consider it
@@mean6002 Well, if you find a head in the refrigerator or something that obvious like strong DNA evidence that corroborate with other evidence, there should be no appeal.
The question one must ask is: "Is this justice or is it vengeance?"
It’s closure either way!
@@mandyellis876 both
Isn’t this punishment you gotta be super fucked up to get the death sentence like messing up 10X over no more chances only retribution is to pay the price it’s all 4 and I’m alright with that
Yeah, fu ck them. Eye for an eye
@@ChnChn-in5kf every world religion forbids the act of taking life which translates into an act of defiance of God's will. My question is, is it acceptable to defy your God to make yourself feel better?
Wouldn't killing a killer to prevent them from killing make you a killer as well?
Was the way you killed that innocent elderly couple dignified then? I bet it was pretty indignant. I don’t care if they suffer when they’re executed. They made the choice to commit a heinous act, they get what they deserve. Period.
Why not the firing squad
You first
@@firstlast8258 meaning what
You make the decision to murder someone in cold blood and you get caught you give up your right to argue your sentence
Are you after justice or vengence?
Personally I think these executions should be as painless as possible. Even though these people have done horrible things, I still think that causing them needless pain just makes monsters out of all of us.
@@butte5359 does it matter? These individuals give up any and all ‘rights’ to anything when they kill their victims in cruel and unusual ways! They have absolutely no reason whatsoever to be whining about their lot now. It’s funny how concerned they become about dying when it’s their turn…you can be sure and certain they didn’t give a sh’t when they were meting it out!!
@@mandyellis876 For me it does, because I'm not out for vengence. Causing unnecessary pain is not something I would support. Even if these people have done horrible things, that's no reason for us to act like monsters towards them.
If all you want is to cause pain, then you should support torturing them, at that point though, I would question if you are any better than these criminals.
@@butte5359 Nothing wrong with vengeance if it's justified. Morality is subjective. Seeking just vengeance will not turn me into a killer of innocents or a danger to society like the original killer. People can distiguish between the two. It is inherent with human nature, it is called JUSTICE. Just because you don't see it that way through whatever indoctrination you received doesn't mean you are right. Opinions are like a**holes, everyone's got one.
@@joeiborowski9763 I didn't say one thing is wrong and the other is right, you might want to read what I wrote again.
I made clear how causing unnecessary suffering is something I would not support, simply because it makes monsters out of all of us.
“With scientific evidence supporting their effects, so that we can provide a patient with a relaxed and painless experience in the operating room”
Supplies fentanyl:
Oklahoma tries too hard to be a mirror of Texas instead of enacting independent legislature that could help it's residents
I hope so
Hope is not a plan
There are plenty of stories of people in surgery that look completely out that remember every cut and every word the surgical staff say. Thats why they has an anesthesiologist monitor so they can assure that the brain is fully out
@slaythykings you can...
@slaythykings you definitely can you just can't move because your body is paralysed by the drugs
The ONLY way this is cruel and unusual is IF the person is innocent and a victim to a miscarriage of justice. Otherwise, it's a punishment and it's not supposed to be enjoyable. Some people just don't deserve to live.
What kind of death did their victims receive. I've had surgeries and didn't feel anything.
One can only be okay with the death penalty if one is okay with killing innocent people. There can be no disputing the fact that innocent people get convicted
If, God forbid, a close family member of yours were killed by someone, I bet you wouldn't say the same thing.
The study, published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences determined that at least 4% of people on death penalty/death row were and are likely innocent.
@@DaleEfti That is why victims of crime can not investigate, be on juries or be a part of sentencing. Human beings are emotional creatures and readily turn to vengeance instead of justice as the emotions blind us.
I personally am against the death penalty for this reason, however when you see these cases of people who without a shadow of a doubt murdered a s*** load of people like John Wayne Gacy or Ted Bundy, I don't exactly protest too hard that they're gonna face the ultimate consequence. Although I do wonder if spending life in America's absolutely hideous prison system is a pretty fitting alternative.
this isn't even a matter of debate, the standard types of lethal injections the US uses are clearly painful, and very unnecessarily so. you could super easily achieve a 100% death rate guaranteed to cause no suffering by using a very large dose of a strong opioid, or better yet a very large dose of opioid combined with a very large dose of benzodiazepine (those are known for potentiating each other's lethality). those would be more easily available too, as they have ubiquitous medical uses.
Or a bullet
Exactly, thee whole point is not a 6 star visit at the dentist chair. Made for humiliation, face ur fears in the reflection of that glass, shiet yr self, sufferings, etc.........
How can he sit there with The Ten Commandments and say he supports the death penalty? It makes zero sense.
In a perfect world, we can hope.
Hope is not a plan
@@firstlast8258 Okay. My plan is to bring back the guillotine. It's cheap, cost effective, and has a rich history in French culture.
@@Dazen101 you first
we shouldn't strive for anything because we don't live in a perfect world
Genuinely didn't know it was suppose to be painless, I thought that was the point. Very interesting.
It's a sentence of death, not torture. Whether it was by firing squad, electric chair, gas chamber or lethal injection... death was to come promptly.
@Ru Rome electric chair and gas chamber sounds like torture, same with firing squad.. I believe that's why my impression was it to be painful.
@@rurome2151 fu ck them. Did you think they thought of that before killing their victims?
The death penalty is wrong. Full stop. Two wrongs do not make a right.
Just make sure they’re out like a light before lethally injecting. Or do they wake to so much pain? I know during high stress moments like almost drowning your eyes go big when you start to panick
😅😅😅😅😅
I live in a country where a person can legally end their life by medically assisted suicide.
I was present when my uncle chose this way because of terminal mesothelioma.
The drug used is natrium pentobarbital (oral, in combination with an anti nausea medicine or IV for patients unable to swallow).
It 100% works . If the death penalty is just or not is another topic entirely, but it boggles my mind that a country which chooses to execute by lethal injection can’t manufacture a suitable drug to do so.
The problem is that the sale of drugs designed to provide medical assistance in dying are prohibited for the purpose of executions. It's a medical ethics issue, which leaves death penalty states to make up lethal injection cocktails as they go along
@@pontifixmax that’s very interesting. Natrium pentobarbital isn’t specifically designed/wasn’t developed for assisted dying, it’s a sleep medication that’s extremely overdosed in case of assisted dying. How can it be decided which drugs fit in the category that provides medically assisted death?
@Ball Lee that's a good question. To be honest, I don't know that much about the subject, except that the lack of access to proper drugs and the lack of properly trained medical professionals involved in executions is why so many are botched.
It's absolutely absurd that they would dismiss an anesthesiologist's professional knowledge of how these drugs work, and how ineffective this death sentence is carried out. We are suppose to be humans capable of empathy and intelligence, but here we are killing people with cruel methods. There IS such a thing as a peaceful death. Perhaps they should consult with doctors in other countries that have doctor assisted euthanasia, or veterinary professionals.
Don't forget this man most likely bludgeoned or shot two innocent old people that most likely suffered and died a horrible death as well. There is a vastly huge difference between justice and malice but understandably a fine line especially in these circumstances.
@@makayladawn7486 "most likely"
This line alone serves as an argument *against* death sentence.
@Alguma Coisa 0_0 only said most likely due to the fact I didn't have knowledge on the situation, upon further investigation this Scott creature had been stalking his ex due to a restraining order put against him after he held her hostage and raped her. Upon entering the old couples house he used AJs own gun to shoot his wife and then bludgeoned AJ to near death, taking his wife's body and laying it on top of him.
After this he proceeded to go across the street and shoot his ex's 16 year old son and beat her mother with the shotgun. None of those people got any freaking news headline or mention in this story other than a brief mention of the situation. It baffles me so many people have such a huge amount of empathy for criminals and predators these days. People with true empathy know what justice is, playing devils advocate for a murderer is equal to victim blaming.
@@makayladawn7486 also don't forget the guy was sentenced to DEATH, he loses his life, THAT is the punishment, not "Horrifying pain and suffering and then DEATH". That's like saying someone charged with felony aggravated assault sentenced to 5 years should first be tortured or beaten for a few hours and then serve 5 years.
@Colonel Corn pretty sure that old man didn't get to choose if he got a dignified painless death. Where do you people find your moral values and how do you seriously deal with the cognitive dissonance that must come with defending a murderer over a victim?
If they are giving their life as punishment then cruel death is wrong. If it's cruel it makes the state no different than the offender.
Maybe they should. And they should be televised in prime time